[greg3347]

On Aug 9, 11:15 pm, GeorgeWashingtonAdmirer
wrote:
What do you expect when quick-buck-artist contractors hire illegal aliens
who typically use a dozen aliases, are drunk and/or high, and who not even
the police know the true names of, right off the street or the parking lot
of a Home Depot?

As early as a few years ago I was posting links to a Consumer Reports
article about this very issue, which even at that junture was emerging as a
serious issue. It was OBVIOUS even then, to anyone with any sense, that
down the road there was going to be a national epidemic of serious
construction problems with the perhaps millions of new illegal-alien-bult
homes that sprouted across the USA during the heady "to-hell-with-the-law"
1990s and into the new millennium.

While understandably frustrated, the homeowners who bought such crappy
illegal-alien-assembled houses should be thankful if the illegals who built
their houses don't return to the scene of their labor to rape, rob or
murder them (there are LOTS of news reports of ilegal alien "day laborers"
raping, robbing and murdering those who hired them -- seewww.daylaborers.orgor perform your own online serach, for example).

I'm reminded of a GREAT video at YouTube (and probably other websites) of
a trained, experienced, skilled Mexican-American construction worker giving
an OUTSTANDING speech -- on-site at a construction site which uses illegal
aliens -- exactly on this whole issue. I hope someone can post a link to
it, or remind me of the man's name, for in my opinion he's the salt of the
earth, a GREAT American, and the kind of Mexican-AMERICAN I *thought* I was
going to find in California, as opposed to the "For The Race Everything,
for those outside The Race nothing" anti-American, ¡Mexico First! illegal
aliens who've flooded the region.
------------------------------------------------------
You Call This a Home?

The next boom for builders may be complaints from angry homeowners

By MARA DER HOVANESIAN
BusinessWeek Online

Residents of a new housing development in South Carolina fear that fumes
from contaminated soil have caused dizziness and blackouts. In Colorado,
homeowners say they were led to believe they'd enjoy a recreational lake
that never materialized, causing property values to slip. As the housing
slump worsens, U.S. homebuilders increasingly find themselves fending off
complaints of shoddy construction, unsavory sales tactics, and use of
unsafe land.

There's no definitive gauge of consumer sentiment toward builders, but
several signs point to growing unease. The annual new-home satisfaction
surveys done by J.D. Power & Associates, which like BusinessWeek is a unit
of The McGraw-Hill Companies, showed customer attitudes improving from 2001
to 2004 and then leveling off. But last year's survey, released in
September, showed a 7 percent increase in the number of construction-defect
complaints per home.

Criterium Engineers, a Portland, Maine building-inspection service active
in 35 states, found that from 2003 to 2006 the number of new homes with
"significant problems" rose more than 13 percent. A public fund in Nevada
created to settle builder complaints paid claims of nearly $1.2 million in
2006, up from $234,000 in 2003.

This is only the beginning, says Ronald T. Kozlowski, a property casualty
actuary with the consulting firm Towers Perrin in San Francisco. "Right now
you're seeing the construction claims start to come in," he says, "but
it'll take five to seven years" to get a full measure of the angry fallout.
Anti-builder Web sites are proliferating, and two consumer groups,
HomeOwners for Better Building and Homeowners Against Deficient Dwellings,
are compiling online lists of beefs against developers.

Whenever there's a rush of building as there has been over the last five
years, complaints are sure to follow. Some can be written off to
unrealistic expectations. The National Association of Home Builders says 55
percent of customer grievances concern caulking, paint, and other nitpicky
issues. This time the grumbling may be exacerbated by frustration over
developers' lending practices. And in areas where home values are dropping,
every chipped tile is infuriating.

[GWA note: Notice how the pro-corporate Business Week article tries to
minimize the American home buyers' complaints, even suggesting that
homeowners stuck with expensive but crappy, shoddily-built homes are
"nitpicking" out of spite! Yet NO MENTION WHATSOEVER of the proverbial
"elephant in the living room": connecting the construction problems to
*those* *who* *did* *the* *constructing*!]

Builders have inoculated themselves effectively against customers taking
their objections to court. Homeowners generally don't have the right to
sue; their only legal recourse is arbitration, as required in most sales
contracts.

[GWA note: So in the "America" of 2007 the ILLEGAL ALIENS who built the
shoddily-constructed houses can sue entire U.S. cities (does the name
"Hazleton, Pennsylvania" ring a bell?) but AMERICANS themselves CAN'T use
the same legal system to sue!]

Contracts also typically prohibit customers from disclosing problems to
the media or prospective buyers. Better Business Bureaus aren't always
helpful, because builders can simply drop out. Four big builders
voluntarily left Houston's BBB in 2004 and 2005, for example. And builders
are only lightly regulated, primarily by state and local authorities.

Even so, consumers are becoming increasingly vocal in their complaints.
Clyde M. and Tracy D. Singleton, a couple in their 50s from Shepherdstown,
W.Va., say that one month after they moved into their new $409,000 house
last October, the basement filled with sewage a foot deep. Tracy says the
couple spent three months in a hotel before their developer, Reston,
Va.-based NVR Inc., got the place cleaned up. The Singletons have resisted
arbitration. Instead they have alleged in a suit pending in federal court
in Martinsburg, W.Va., that NVR failed to put in an underground shut-off
valve to prevent sewage from backing up into their house. The plaintiffs
claim that since the valve should have been installed outside of their
home, the dispute isn't covered by the arbitration clause in their
contract.

NVR counters in a motion to dismiss the suit that the action lacks any
merit. The Singletons have "failed to allege any facts" indicating that the
company "unreasonably used its property" to harm the plaintiffs, NVR
argues.

Lennar Corp. another large builder, has drawn scrutiny in South Carolina.
Residents of its new Pebble Creek development in North Charleston, such as
Bill and Holly Hurley, say they have suffered from light-headedness,
lethargy, and depression. Home inspections they commissioned showed unsafe
levels of methane gas, which the Hurleys and others fear may be linked to
possible soil contamination by a previous land owner.

Miami-based Lennar says in a written statement that it "hired a
consulting firm before the land was developed and found no evidence of
recognized environmental conditions" at that time. Playing down health
concerns, Lennar acknowledges that methane has seeped out of "broken sewer
pipes and improperly seated toilets," which it says it has now repaired.
The ultimate source of the gas hasn't been determined, however. The company
has bought back one house as a result of the controversy.

Lennar perceives another cause for anxiety in Pebble Creek. Its general
counsel, Mark Sustana, says in an interview that buyers are aggravated over
seeing their investments depreciate as the housing boom has given way to a
bust.

http://realestate.aol.com/article/_a...me/20070806142...
************************************************** ***********************
PLEASE EMAIL THESE LINKS TO EVERYONE YOU KNOW:

"The Illegal-Alien Crime Wave" by Heather MacDonaldwww.City-Journal.org/html/14_1_the_illegal_alien.html

http://www.PredatoryAliens.comwww.Im...a lAliens.org
See the COLOSSAL costs of illegal aliens to the American taxpayer:www.ImmigrationCounters.com
---------------------------------------------
"Por La Raza todo. Fuera de La Raza nada"
("For The Race everything, for those outside The Race nothing")

-- Motto of MEChA, one of the nation's largest publically-funded
organizations with cells on high school and college campuses across the USA
(Note: Attorney General Alberto Gonzalez says he "used to be" a member)
---------------------------------------------
"How Eisenhower solved illegal border crossings from Mexico"
By John Dillinhttp://www.csmonitor.com/2006/0706/p09s01-coop.html

Excerpt:

"General Eisenhower ... quoted a report in The New York Times,
highlighting one paragraph that said: 'The rise in illegal border-crossing
by Mexican 'wetbacks' to a current rate of more than
1,000,000 cases a year has been accompanied by a curious relaxation
in ethical standards extending all the way from the farmer-exploiters
of this contraband labor to the highest levels of the Federal
Government ..."

"Herbert Brownell Jr., Eisenhower's first attorney general, said the
president had a sense of urgency about illegal immigration when he took
office.

"America 'was faced with a breakdown in law enforcement on a very large
scale,' Mr. Brownell said. 'When I say large scale, I mean hundreds of
thousands were coming in from Mexico [every year] without restraint.'"
--------------------------------------------------
Just two of MANY American cops murdered by illegals:www.DeputyDavidMarch.comwww.KrisEggle.org

"Unfortunately, the majority of illegal aliens who are here are engaged in
criminal activity. Identity theft, use of fraudulent Social Security
numbers and green cards, tax evasion, driving without licenses represent
some of the crimes that are engaged in by the ...

read more »

Everything these mestizoes touch turns to crap.
And never deal with an employer of illegal aliens.

ted

http://www.newnation.org/ New Nation News

[willshak]

on 8/10/2007 11:09 AM said the following:
On Fri, 10 Aug 2007 06:44:17 -0700, greg3347
wrote:


Everything these mestizoes touch turns to crap.
And never deal with an employer of illegal aliens.

ted


I was an inspector for 8 years. The Mexicans usually did better work
that the anglo drunks who showed up for these jobs. Kids in the US are
not interested in working outside in the hot sun these days. If you
want white guys you end up with ex-cons, druggies and drunks who can't
get a job anywhere else.
I do not condine hiring "illegals" but if you depended on the anglos
to build houses you would never get them built and they would cost
$500 a square foot. I would blame the "suits" for the lousy quality of
new homes, not the labor. They will buy the cheapest crap available
and design to absolute "hold your nose" minimum , even when they are
building million dollar houses. At the corporate level the only
"pride" is pride in a good bottom line.


One day a few years ago, my neighbor had a new roof installed on his
split level (2 roofs). I don't know the exact size of the house, but
would estimate it to be around 50' x 30'. At 7AM, the crew of about 6
hispanics arrived and began to tear off the roof shingles. I don't know
if they were Mexicans or of other hispanic nationality, nor if they were
illegal aliens or not. They were on the roof all day and I don't know if
they stopped for lunch, or if they took turns having lunch. In any
event, the hammering was non-stop, as was the salsa music from their
radio. They were finished and gone at about 6 PM (still daylight), after
having cleaned up the debris and hauling it away. I have seen other
roofing jobs of the same or smaller size take days to complete. Didn't
hear any salsa music on those jobs, tho.
Why is it that on a lot of the home improvement TV shows, that most of
the landscape workers are nearly always hispanic?

--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
To email, remove the double zeroes after @

[hillacc at yahoo.com]

On Aug 10, 10:09 am, wrote:
On Fri, 10 Aug 2007 06:44:17 -0700, greg3347
wrote:



Everything these mestizoes touch turns to crap.
And never deal with an employer of illegal aliens.

ted

I was an inspector for 8 years. The Mexicans usually did better work
that the anglo drunks who showed up for these jobs. Kids in the US are
not interested in working outside in the hot sun these days. If you
want white guys you end up with ex-cons, druggies and drunks who can't
get a job anywhere else.
I do not condine hiring "illegals" but if you depended on the anglos
to build houses you would never get them built and they would cost
$500 a square foot. I would blame the "suits" for the lousy quality of
new homes, not the labor. They will buy the cheapest crap available
and design to absolute "hold your nose" minimum , even when they are
building million dollar houses. At the corporate level the only
"pride" is pride in a good bottom line.

My thinking, exactly. God knows this list alone provides ample
evidence of the shoddy work often done by 100% born-in-the-USA, legal-
from-birth, idiots passing themselves off as builders, tradesmen,
skilled laborers, etc.

Why do you think President Bush keeps working to legalize illegal
immigrants? Because he's such a nice guy and feels sorry for the
struggling masses? NO, it's because U.S. businesses of many stripes
(building, maintenance, farming) depend on them for cheap labor, and
he's trying to cut the "suits" a break by shoring up their supply line
for same.

Jo Ann

[Davej]

On Aug 9, 11:15 pm, GeorgeWashingtonAdmirer
wrote:

What do you expect when quick-buck-artist contractors hire illegal aliens
who typically use a dozen aliases, are drunk and/or high, and who not even
the police know the true names of, right off the street or the parking lot
of a Home Depot?


You can't blame the Illegals for the crappy materials. Everywhere I
look the materials being used are crap. I mean particle board exterior
trim? Walls that move when you close a door?

[Wayne.B]

On Fri, 10 Aug 2007 11:09:56 -0400, wrote:

Mexicans usually did better work
that the anglo drunks who showed up for these jobs.

You bet.

[Joseph Bartlo]

wrote in message
...
On Fri, 10 Aug 2007 06:44:17 -0700, greg3347
wrote:


Everything these mestizoes touch turns to crap.
And never deal with an employer of illegal aliens.

ted

I was an inspector for 8 years. The Mexicans usually did better work
that the anglo drunks who showed up for these jobs. Kids in the US are
not interested in working outside in the hot sun these days. If you
want white guys you end up with ex-cons, druggies and drunks who can't
get a job anywhere else.

You must have been one lousy inspector then because the houses that beaners
built are falling apart from basic construction flaws.

I do not condine hiring "illegals" but if you depended on the anglos

Obviously you do condone the practice.

to build houses you would never get them built and they would cost
$500 a square foot. I would blame the "suits" for the lousy quality of

That's pure BS. There are plenty of quality builders in the US who use
American construction labor with excellent results.

new homes, not the labor. They will buy the cheapest crap available
and design to absolute "hold your nose" minimum , even when they are
building million dollar houses. At the corporate level the only
"pride" is pride in a good bottom line.

The lousy construction is directly attributable to crooked "inspectors" who
pocket $200.00 and sign off on flawed work.

[William Underhill]

Joseph Bartlo wrote:
wrote in message
...
On Fri, 10 Aug 2007 06:44:17 -0700, greg3347
wrote:

Everything these mestizoes touch turns to crap.
And never deal with an employer of illegal aliens.

ted
I was an inspector for 8 years. The Mexicans usually did better work
that the anglo drunks who showed up for these jobs. Kids in the US are
not interested in working outside in the hot sun these days. If you
want white guys you end up with ex-cons, druggies and drunks who can't
get a job anywhere else.

You must have been one lousy inspector then because the houses that beaners
built are falling apart from basic construction flaws.

And of course you're a trained inspector and you've got all the stats
and can provide links to 'em so we can verify 'em ourselves, right?

to build houses you would never get them built and they would cost
$500 a square foot. I would blame the "suits" for the lousy quality of

That's pure BS. There are plenty of quality builders in the US who use
American construction labor with excellent results.

No-one says there isn't. But he's right; lots of jobs out there that
lots of white folks won't take because they're minimum-wage labour. When
was the last time you saw a white maid or housekeeper?

new homes, not the labor. They will buy the cheapest crap available
and design to absolute "hold your nose" minimum , even when they are
building million dollar houses. At the corporate level the only
"pride" is pride in a good bottom line.

The lousy construction is directly attributable to crooked "inspectors" who
pocket $200.00 and sign off on flawed work.

Sounds like you're implying he's one of those crooked inspectors. If so,
can you back it up? Or are you just making a lot of noise?

--
"Take sides! Always take sides! You may sometimes be wrong - but the man
who refuses to take sides must *always* be wrong! Heaven save us from
poltroons who fear to make a choice!" R.A. Heinlein, "Double Star"

[HK]

wrote:
On Fri, 10 Aug 2007 06:44:17 -0700, greg3347
wrote:

Everything these mestizoes touch turns to crap.
And never deal with an employer of illegal aliens.

ted

I was an inspector for 8 years. The Mexicans usually did better work
that the anglo drunks who showed up for these jobs. Kids in the US are
not interested in working outside in the hot sun these days. If you
want white guys you end up with ex-cons, druggies and drunks who can't
get a job anywhere else.
I do not condine hiring "illegals" but if you depended on the anglos
to build houses you would never get them built and they would cost
$500 a square foot. I would blame the "suits" for the lousy quality of
new homes, not the labor. They will buy the cheapest crap available
and design to absolute "hold your nose" minimum , even when they are
building million dollar houses. At the corporate level the only
"pride" is pride in a good bottom line.


Since new single-family house construction in my part of the world is
not unionized, you can easily end up with builders whose subs do little
more than hire pick-up labor off the nearest shape-up. There is a
tremendous amount of gross profit available in building the typical
single-family house, so the suits try to figure out ways to maximize it
all at the expense of the buyers.

For the highly skilled trades -electrical, plumbing, masonry- I can call
the union business agents and get a retired or out of work journeyman to
work on my house, or sometimes some apprentices nearing completion of
their years of work-study. For carpentry around here, the best
workmanship, sobriety, and pricing is available from the Amish who work
outside their community.

I don't fault "illegals" for doing anything legally possible to earn
bucks and feed their families. I fault those who hire illegals and
others who haven't the skillsets to do the work properly.

[Lead Driver]

Why is this bull**** continually cross-posted by dickless morons?

[[email protected]]

On Aug 10, 2:59 pm, Wayne.B wrote:
On Fri, 10 Aug 2007 11:09:56 -0400, wrote:
Mexicans usually did better work
that the anglo drunks who showed up for these jobs.

You bet.

Yup, I have worked with illegals in my time, they will do exactly what
they are told to do, will work as well as the boss tells them to. Also
worked with a all American crew, we had the drunk, the junkie, and a
total asshole for a boss that would not let us take the time to even
line stuff up right. It made me sick, I actually quit cause I could
not let my name be associated with the crew. Funny thing is this was
the "king tut" crew, in a prestigeous, white, neighborhood, just
outside NYC.
I asked a hispanic co-worker one time why he ran so fast all day. His
answer changed my thinking forever, I was about 19. He looked at me
and said in very broken english, "you can go out any day and get a
job. I have only been here 1 year and don't speak well yet, I have
three kids and a wife, and do not want to go out job hunting again, I
will just work hard here and keep this job." Honestly, I am sure he
was legal, we were both in the union, huge grocery chain, but that has
also been the attitude of most of the illegal's and qustionables I
have worked with in my lifetime too.

[terry]

On Aug 11, 10:16 am, wrote:
On Aug 10, 2:59 pm, Wayne.B wrote:

On Fri, 10 Aug 2007 11:09:56 -0400, wrote:
Mexicans usually did better work
that the anglo drunks who showed up for these jobs.

You bet.

Yup, I have worked with illegals in my time, they will do exactly what
they are told to do, will work as well as the boss tells them to. Also
worked with a all American crew, we had the drunk, the junkie, and a
total asshole for a boss that would not let us take the time to even
line stuff up right. It made me sick, I actually quit cause I could
not let my name be associated with the crew. Funny thing is this was
the "king tut" crew, in a prestigeous, white, neighborhood, just
outside NYC.
I asked a hispanic co-worker one time why he ran so fast all day. His
answer changed my thinking forever, I was about 19. He looked at me
and said in very broken english, "you can go out any day and get a
job. I have only been here 1 year and don't speak well yet, I have
three kids and a wife, and do not want to go out job hunting again, I
will just work hard here and keep this job." Honestly, I am sure he
was legal, we were both in the union, huge grocery chain, but that has
also been the attitude of most of the illegal's and qustionables I
have worked with in my lifetime too.

This is really a political discussion thread about immigration; legal
or otherwise.
We can probably all come up with good/bad examples; coloured somewhat
by our political (and sometimes not well thought out) prejudices!
As an immigrant myself some 50+ years ago, when post-war North America
was 'looking for' immigrants and places such as Australia and New
Zealand were paying passage for whole immigrant families (I could'a
gone there and been paid to do so! Maybe it would have been a better
choice?), I offer the following comment.
Immigrants have to prove themselves; they are either coming from less
fortunate circumstances or have just the pride of surviving and
'making it', to themselves and others, in this new society.
For example: Many years later I met the Chinese guy who used to wash
my shirts on the bottom floor of his house, back in 1958. He by then
owned several buildings including a restaurant and provided employment
for quite a few people. His English still wasn't very good; but good
luck to him and his hard work.
Another; a young Greek man worked his way through a North American
Engineering degree, at a very menial job, then married here and
brought up a family. Today his daughter is one of the leading lights
at a major university!
After a few generations some of us get lazy and acquire the wrong
expectation that "The world owes us a living" just because we live in
a certain location or have a particular nationality.
That's BS. And as other parts of the world develop, India, China and
eventually perhaps Africa, we will all find out it's one planet and
its resources.
Just because, perhaps, someones grandparent plowed with oxen, or
picked tea by hand, does not mean they cannot be a smart, modern,
intelligent upstanding citizen of any country.
Maybe my descendants will emigrate to other parts of the world and
have to put up with the same changes and perhaps prejudices that we
immigrants have done so, more recently? I have some confidence they
will more than cope!
Good luck to us all; immigrant, descendant of immigrant, native
person, aboriginal peoples etc. OK?

[Top[_2_]]

wrote:

On Aug 10, 2:59 pm, Wayne.B wrote:
On Fri, 10 Aug 2007 11:09:56 -0400, wrote:
Mexicans usually did better work
that the anglo drunks who showed up for these jobs.

You bet.

Yup, I have worked with illegals in my time, they will do exactly what
they are told to do, will work as well as the boss tells them to. Also
worked with a all American crew, we had the drunk, the junkie, and a
total asshole for a boss that would not let us take the time to even
line stuff up right. It made me sick, I actually quit cause I could
not let my name be associated with the crew. Funny thing is this was
the "king tut" crew, in a prestigeous, white, neighborhood, just
outside NYC.
I asked a hispanic co-worker one time why he ran so fast all day. His
answer changed my thinking forever, I was about 19. He looked at me
and said in very broken english, "you can go out any day and get a
job. I have only been here 1 year and don't speak well yet, I have
three kids and a wife, and do not want to go out job hunting again, I
will just work hard here and keep this job." Honestly, I am sure he
was legal, we were both in the union, huge grocery chain, but that has
also been the attitude of most of the illegal's and qustionables I
have worked with in my lifetime too.

If those are the type examples you want to spout you are full of
bull****. Talk to people along the border and ask them how for they
will trust and illegal alien. Ask him if he's been able to keep his
home secure. If you want to talk about what upstanding citizens you
want us to believe they are you are short on facts and long on
bull****.

Top

[[email protected]]

On Aug 12, 2:28 am, Top wrote:
wrote:
On Aug 10, 2:59 pm, Wayne.B wrote:
On Fri, 10 Aug 2007 11:09:56 -0400, wrote:
Mexicans usually did better work
that the anglo drunks who showed up for these jobs.

You bet.

Yup, I have worked with illegals in my time, they will do exactly what
they are told to do, will work as well as the boss tells them to. Also
worked with a all American crew, we had the drunk, the junkie, and a
total asshole for a boss that would not let us take the time to even
line stuff up right. It made me sick, I actually quit cause I could
not let my name be associated with the crew. Funny thing is this was
the "king tut" crew, in a prestigeous, white, neighborhood, just
outside NYC.
I asked a hispanic co-worker one time why he ran so fast all day. His
answer changed my thinking forever, I was about 19. He looked at me
and said in very broken english, "you can go out any day and get a
job. I have only been here 1 year and don't speak well yet, I have
three kids and a wife, and do not want to go out job hunting again, I
will just work hard here and keep this job." Honestly, I am sure he
was legal, we were both in the union, huge grocery chain, but that has
also been the attitude of most of the illegal's and qustionables I
have worked with in my lifetime too.

If those are the type examples you want to spout you are full of
bull****. Talk to people along the border and ask them how for they
will trust and illegal alien. Ask him if he's been able to keep his
home secure. If you want to talk about what upstanding citizens you
want us to believe they are you are short on facts and long on
bull****.

Top- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Wow, aren't you an internet hero! Listen kid, I read your profile,
seems you don't really have anything to add anyway, so go back to your
cartoons. Look!! There's SpongeBob over there

[Dave[_3_]]

wrote in message
ups.com...
On Aug 10, 2:59 pm, Wayne.B wrote:
On Fri, 10 Aug 2007 11:09:56 -0400, wrote:
Mexicans usually did better work
that the anglo drunks who showed up for these jobs.

You bet.

Yup, I have worked with illegals in my time, they will do exactly what
they are told to do, will work as well as the boss tells them to. Also
worked with a all American crew, we had the drunk, the junkie, and a
total asshole for a boss that would not let us take the time to even
line stuff up right. It made me sick, I actually quit cause I could
not let my name be associated with the crew. Funny thing is this was
the "king tut" crew, in a prestigeous, white, neighborhood, just
outside NYC.
I asked a hispanic co-worker one time why he ran so fast all day. His
answer changed my thinking forever, I was about 19. He looked at me
and said in very broken english, "you can go out any day and get a
job. I have only been here 1 year and don't speak well yet, I have
three kids and a wife, and do not want to go out job hunting again, I
will just work hard here and keep this job." Honestly, I am sure he
was legal, we were both in the union, huge grocery chain, but that has
also been the attitude of most of the illegal's and qustionables I
have worked with in my lifetime too.


What you've described is not the problem. They are hard working people. The
problem is they don't pay taxes, take money from the government programs,
drive without insurance, and alot of time they're drunk and driving. The tax
the social system to the max all while not being legal. I say lets get them
legal so they can pay their civic duties and them impose heavy fines on the
employers that hire illegals. I saw on the news the other day this field
worker who couldn't speak any english talk about how much money he made
after he's been here for 17 years. It's gotta change.

[KLS]

On Mon, 13 Aug 2007 17:46:29 -0400, "Dave"
wrote about immigrants (illegal, I presume):

What you've described is not the problem. They are hard working people. The
problem is they don't pay taxes,

Give me a @#%$&*+ break. They pay the same @#%$&*+ taxes you do every
@#%$&*+ time they buy a @#%$&*+ thing. Their rent pays taxes, or did
you not realize that tenants are basically paying their landlord's
taxes with their rent? Stop perpetuating this canard. I won't even
address the rest of your post and its pathetic lack of logic and
humanity.

[realitytrucker]

On Aug 13, 5:09 pm, KLS wrote:
On Mon, 13 Aug 2007 17:46:29 -0400, "Dave"
wrote about immigrants (illegal, I presume):

What you've described is not the problem. They are hard working people. The
problem is they don't pay taxes,

Give me a @#%$&*+ break. They pay the same @#%$&*+ taxes you do every
@#%$&*+ time they buy a @#%$&*+ thing. Their rent pays taxes, or did
you not realize that tenants are basically paying their landlord's
taxes with their rent? Stop perpetuating this canard. I won't even
address the rest of your post and its pathetic lack of logic and
humanity.

Income taxes. THAT'S what he's talking about. They're illegal
immigrants and they're getting paid under the table which means no
taxes are deducted. And if taxes ARE being deducted the employer is
not paying them to the government. No social security is being
deducted from their checks either.

[BigIronRam]

"realitytrucker" wrote in message
ps.com...
On Aug 13, 5:09 pm, KLS wrote:
On Mon, 13 Aug 2007 17:46:29 -0400, "Dave"
wrote about immigrants (illegal, I presume):

What you've described is not the problem. They are hard working people.
The
problem is they don't pay taxes,

Give me a @#%$&*+ break. They pay the same @#%$&*+ taxes you do every
@#%$&*+ time they buy a @#%$&*+ thing. Their rent pays taxes, or did
you not realize that tenants are basically paying their landlord's
taxes with their rent? Stop perpetuating this canard. I won't even
address the rest of your post and its pathetic lack of logic and
humanity.

Income taxes. THAT'S what he's talking about. They're illegal
immigrants and they're getting paid under the table which means no
taxes are deducted. And if taxes ARE being deducted the employer is
not paying them to the government. No social security is being
deducted from their checks either.


I don't know if this scam is still common, but what they used to do was
claim 99 dependents so they had no withholding. It takes a few months
before SSA wakes up and sends a letter saying there must be a mistake in the
withholding. So they fill out a new W4 and claim 98 dependents, another few
months before SSA gets around to looking again. Then it's 97 dependents,
sung to the tune of 99 bottles of beer...

[KLS]

On Mon, 13 Aug 2007 15:34:50 -0700, realitytrucker
wrote:

On Aug 13, 5:09 pm, KLS wrote:
On Mon, 13 Aug 2007 17:46:29 -0400, "Dave"
wrote about immigrants (illegal, I presume):

What you've described is not the problem. They are hard working people. The
problem is they don't pay taxes,

Give me a @#%$&*+ break. They pay the same @#%$&*+ taxes you do every
@#%$&*+ time they buy a @#%$&*+ thing. Their rent pays taxes, or did
you not realize that tenants are basically paying their landlord's
taxes with their rent? Stop perpetuating this canard. I won't even
address the rest of your post and its pathetic lack of logic and
humanity.

Income taxes. THAT'S what he's talking about. They're illegal
immigrants and they're getting paid under the table which means no
taxes are deducted. And if taxes ARE being deducted the employer is
not paying them to the government. No social security is being
deducted from their checks either.

Then say "income taxes"!!! How hard is it to use correct terminology?

This is what I hate about people who demonize others of minority or
disadvanaged groups: their use of misinformation involved in this
kind of twisted talk. It's just wrong.

[KLS]

On Tue, 14 Aug 2007 01:58:36 -0400, wrote:

On Mon, 13 Aug 2007 17:46:29 -0400, "Dave"
wrote:

What you've described is not the problem. They are hard working people. The
problem is they don't pay taxes


That is not true at all, in fact the employer is required to take out
the taxes on the SSN they provide, but since it is a phony number,
they will never get anything back from SS. (or a refund from IRS) That
is why the SS administration puts, in big print on the mismatch SSN
form,
"DO NOT TERMINATE AN EMPLOYEE BASED ON THIS REPORT"
They are getting the SS tax and income taxes that they will never have
to pay back.

This is just one of many news stories and reports on the topic that
demonstrate how much illegal immigrants contribute to the Social
Security fund. In fact, the federal government actually plans its
budget around these contributions, which will never return to the
actual workers who paid in the FICA taxes. The hypocrisy of the
Republican party on this issue is rich.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/04/05/bu...c3 83&ei=5090

April 5, 2005
Illegal Immigrants Are Bolstering Social Security With Billions
By EDUARDO PORTER

[beginning cut]

While it has been evident for years that illegal immigrants pay a
variety of taxes, the extent of their contributions to Social Security
is striking: the money added up to about 10 percent of last year's
surplus - the difference between what the system currently receives in
payroll taxes and what it doles out in pension benefits. Moreover, the
money paid by illegal workers and their employers is factored into all
the Social Security Administration's projections.

Illegal immigration, Marcelo Suárez-Orozco, co-director of immigration
studies at New York University, noted sardonically, could provide "the
fastest way to shore up the long-term finances of Social Security."

It is impossible to know exactly how many illegal immigrant workers
pay taxes. But according to specialists, most of them do. Since 1986,
when the Immigration Reform and Control Act set penalties for
employers who knowingly hire illegal immigrants, most such workers
have been forced to buy fake ID's to get a job.

[more cut]

The file has been mushrooming ever since: $189 billion worth of wages
ended up recorded in the suspense file over the 1990's, two and a half
times the amount of the 1980's.

In the current decade, the file is growing, on average, by more than
$50 billion a year, generating $6 billion to $7 billion in Social
Security tax revenue and about $1.5 billion in Medicare taxes.

In 2002 alone, the last year with figures released by the Social
Security Administration, nine million W-2's with incorrect Social
Security numbers landed in the suspense file, accounting for $56
billion in earnings, or about 1.5 percent of total reported wages.

Social Security officials do not know what fraction of the suspense
file corresponds to the earnings of illegal immigrants. But they
suspect that the portion is significant.

"Our assumption is that about three-quarters of other-than-legal
immigrants pay payroll taxes," said Stephen C. Goss, Social Security's
chief actuary, using the agency's term for illegal immigration.

[cut]

Most immigration helps Social Security's finances, because new
immigrants tend to be of working age and contribute more than they
take from the system. A simulation by Social Security's actuaries
found that if net immigration ran at 1.3 million a year instead of the
900,000 in their central assumption, the system's 75-year funding gap
would narrow to 1.67 percent of total payroll, from 1.92 percent -
savings that come out to half a trillion dollars, valued in today's
money.

Illegal immigrants help even more because they will never collect
benefits. According to Mr. Goss, without the flow of payroll taxes
from wages in the suspense file, the system's long-term funding hole
over 75 years would be 10 percent deeper.

[cut]

[Vic Smith]

On Tue, 14 Aug 2007 01:58:36 -0400, wrote:

On Mon, 13 Aug 2007 17:46:29 -0400, "Dave"
wrote:

What you've described is not the problem. They are hard working people. The
problem is they don't pay taxes


That is not true at all, in fact the employer is required to take out
the taxes on the SSN they provide, but since it is a phony number,
they will never get anything back from SS. (or a refund from IRS) That
is why the SS administration puts, in big print on the mismatch SSN
form,
"DO NOT TERMINATE AN EMPLOYEE BASED ON THIS REPORT"
They are getting the SS tax and income taxes that they will never have
to pay back.
Thjere is some US born bum living in a dumpster somewhere who maxes
out his FICA every year from illegals using his number and he doesn't
even know it.

They just had an item on the local Fox news in Chicago last night.
Construction trade illegals doing bricklaying. Their "paychecks" were
shown. Simple personal checks.
No income tax.
No SS taxes.
No workers comp.
No insurance.
You know, just an amount.
One fell on the job and broke both arms.
The company had the injured worker's wife take him to Cook County
hospital and told her to tell the ER he fell at home.
Besides these situations where SS numbers are not even used, many SS
numbers are bogus. The guv - although that might change - is averse
to enforcing the law.
Laws are being broken left and right. Workers are abused - Americans
and illegals.
And here you and others are making excuses for it, and deriding
American workers.
Me and 2 other neighbors mow our own lawns around here. The rest of
maybe 50 homes up and down the street are being done by illegals.
Dollars to donuts they're getting personal checks or cash from the
landscaper.
About 80% of kitchen staff where my wife is head cook are illegals.
She outworks any 3 of them. They are generally lazy, incompetent, and
uncaring about their work, probably because they are underpaid and
mismanaged. Oh yeah, one of them stole 30 bucks from her purse in her
unlocked locker a couple day ago, just so you don't imagine that all
working illegals are just like the quaintly angelic villagers you saw
in Magnificent 7.
They ain't no different than Americans, except they ain't Americans.
She has seen the same Juan Gomez with 4 different faces, one of them a
female. And that Juan Gomez SSN might well be bogus.
Talking about SS and employment "rules" as you do above tells me you
don't know much about this.

--Vic

[thunder]

On Tue, 14 Aug 2007 01:58:36 -0400, gfretwell wrote:

On Mon, 13 Aug 2007 17:46:29 -0400, "Dave"
wrote:

What you've described is not the problem. They are hard working people.
The problem is they don't pay taxes


That is not true at all, in fact the employer is required to take out
the taxes on the SSN they provide, but since it is a phony number, they
will never get anything back from SS. (or a refund from IRS) That is why
the SS administration puts, in big print on the mismatch SSN form,
"DO NOT TERMINATE AN EMPLOYEE BASED ON THIS REPORT" They are getting the
SS tax and income taxes that they will never have to pay back.
Thjere is some US born bum living in a dumpster somewhere who maxes out
his FICA every year from illegals using his number and he doesn't even
know it.

Those Social Security taxes are helping to keep Social Security afloat. It's estimated illegals account for
$50 billion or 10% of the Social Security surplus.

http://www.reason.org/commentaries/d...20060501.shtml

[Vic Smith]

On Tue, 14 Aug 2007 11:46:46 -0000, thunder
wrote:

On Tue, 14 Aug 2007 01:58:36 -0400, gfretwell wrote:

On Mon, 13 Aug 2007 17:46:29 -0400, "Dave"
wrote:

What you've described is not the problem. They are hard working people.
The problem is they don't pay taxes


That is not true at all, in fact the employer is required to take out
the taxes on the SSN they provide, but since it is a phony number, they
will never get anything back from SS. (or a refund from IRS) That is why
the SS administration puts, in big print on the mismatch SSN form,
"DO NOT TERMINATE AN EMPLOYEE BASED ON THIS REPORT" They are getting the
SS tax and income taxes that they will never have to pay back.
Thjere is some US born bum living in a dumpster somewhere who maxes out
his FICA every year from illegals using his number and he doesn't even
know it.

Those Social Security taxes are helping to keep Social Security afloat. It's estimated illegals account for
$50 billion or 10% of the Social Security surplus.

http://www.reason.org/commentaries/d...20060501.shtml

More BS from another wacko organization. No facts. Just BS that fits
their agenda.

--Vic

[thunder]

On Tue, 14 Aug 2007 07:04:49 -0500, Vic Smith wrote:


Those Social Security taxes are helping to keep Social Security afloat.
It's estimated illegals account for $50 billion or 10% of the Social
Security surplus.

http://www.reason.org/commentaries/d...20060501.shtml

More BS from another wacko organization. No facts. Just BS that fits
their agenda.

--Vic

Sorry it doesn't fit your preconceived notions, but the "Earnings Suspense File" is well documented. Do a
search on it.

[Vic Smith]

On Tue, 14 Aug 2007 12:52:00 -0000, thunder
wrote:

On Tue, 14 Aug 2007 07:04:49 -0500, Vic Smith wrote:


Those Social Security taxes are helping to keep Social Security afloat.
It's estimated illegals account for $50 billion or 10% of the Social
Security surplus.

http://www.reason.org/commentaries/d...20060501.shtml

More BS from another wacko organization. No facts. Just BS that fits
their agenda.

--Vic

Sorry it doesn't fit your preconceived notions, but the "Earnings Suspense File" is well documented. Do a
search on it.

Yeah, so are UFO's.
You're posting the BS. Do it yourself if it's so well documented.
Oh, hell, since you pulled the term out of some dark place, I'll do it
for you:
http://www.ssa.gov/legislation/testimony_021606.html
"For TY 2003, using computer routines we were able to post more than
half of all W-2s received with invalid name/SSN combinations to the
correct SSN. The balance, 4.1 percent of total W-2s received for TY
2003, was initially recorded in the suspense file. As of October,
2005, approximately 8.8 million W-2s (3.7 percent of the total)
representing $57.8 billion in wages remained in the suspense file for
TY 2003.
Subsequent processing reduces this amount further. SSA removes wage
items from the suspense file on an ongoing basis and posts them to the
correct worker’s record. Reinstatements can occur when a worker
provides evidence of missing wages after reviewing the Security
Statement. Over time, the percentage of W-2s for a given year or
period of years that remain in the suspense file declines as a result
of this subsequent processing. Historically, approximately 2 percent
of all wage items for a given year remain in the suspense file."

Though there is mention of illegals later in the testimony, there is
no tying of any dollar amount or percentage to illegals anywhere in
the testimony.
The 57.8 billion mentioned above is *wages,* not SS income.
A shock to you, I suppose. Totally contradicts your numbers/pcts.
Besides that using the term "surplus" is a deceitful way to get an
already bogus number to 10%, since the surplus itself only reflects
10% of SS receipts.
It would be honest to just say that about one tenth of one percent of
SS receipts is in suspense, and some of that is no doubt from
illegals, but then perhaps nobody would pay attention.
In short, you are propagating BS.
Why somebody would post a BS article from an Un-American (IMO)
right-wing, neocon/Wall Street funded organization and expect not to
be called on it is beyond me.
But you've been called, and I've posted the facts.
Check the bona fides of your sources next time, and use the brain the
Good Lord gave you instead of repeating trash talk, and accusing
others of "preconceived notions."
BTW, my wife and two of my kids are naturalized U.S. citizens, all
done legally after getting in line. So don't even effing think about
calling me a racist or anti-immigrant, as is the wont of many of these
lame-assed open-border advocates when somebody disagrees with their
radical neocon ideas.

--Vic

[thunder]

On Tue, 14 Aug 2007 09:22:50 -0500, Vic Smith wrote:

On Tue, 14 Aug 2007 12:52:00 -0000, thunder
wrote:

On Tue, 14 Aug 2007 07:04:49 -0500, Vic Smith wrote:


Those Social Security taxes are helping to keep Social Security
afloat. It's estimated illegals account for $50 billion or 10% of the
Social Security surplus.

http://www.reason.org/commentaries/d...20060501.shtml

More BS from another wacko organization. No facts. Just BS that fits
their agenda.

--Vic

Sorry it doesn't fit your preconceived notions, but the "Earnings
Suspense File" is well documented. Do a search on it.

Yeah, so are UFO's.
You're posting the BS. Do it yourself if it's so well documented. Oh,
hell, since you pulled the term out of some dark place, I'll do it for
you:
http://www.ssa.gov/legislation/testimony_021606.html "For TY 2003, using
computer routines we were able to post more than half of all W-2s
received with invalid name/SSN combinations to the correct SSN. The
balance, 4.1 percent of total W-2s received for TY 2003, was initially
recorded in the suspense file. As of October, 2005, approximately 8.8
million W-2s (3.7 percent of the total) representing $57.8 billion in
wages remained in the suspense file for TY 2003.
Subsequent processing reduces this amount further. SSA removes wage
items from the suspense file on an ongoing basis and posts them to the
correct workerÂ’s record. Reinstatements can occur when a worker provides
evidence of missing wages after reviewing the Security Statement. Over
time, the percentage of W-2s for a given year or period of years that
remain in the suspense file declines as a result of this subsequent
processing. Historically, approximately 2 percent of all wage items for
a given year remain in the suspense file."

Though there is mention of illegals later in the testimony, there is no
tying of any dollar amount or percentage to illegals anywhere in the
testimony.
The 57.8 billion mentioned above is *wages,* not SS income. A shock to
you, I suppose. Totally contradicts your numbers/pcts. Besides that
using the term "surplus" is a deceitful way to get an already bogus
number to 10%, since the surplus itself only reflects 10% of SS
receipts.
It would be honest to just say that about one tenth of one percent of
SS receipts is in suspense, and some of that is no doubt from illegals,
but then perhaps nobody would pay attention. In short, you are
propagating BS.
Why somebody would post a BS article from an Un-American (IMO)
right-wing, neocon/Wall Street funded organization and expect not to be
called on it is beyond me.
But you've been called, and I've posted the facts. Check the bona fides
of your sources next time, and use the brain the Good Lord gave you
instead of repeating trash talk, and accusing others of "preconceived
notions."
BTW, my wife and two of my kids are naturalized U.S. citizens, all done
legally after getting in line. So don't even effing think about calling
me a racist or anti-immigrant, as is the wont of many of these
lame-assed open-border advocates when somebody disagrees with their
radical neocon ideas.

--Vic

You have to be joking. I posted a link to an article from Knight Ridder. That's an "BS article from an Un-
American (IMO) right-wing, neocon/Wall Street funded organization?" Oh well, you can read the same
fact I quoted he
http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepu...mmigpay10.html

Or he
http://www.immigrationforum.org/Desk...aspx?tabid=724

Oh, and just to clarify, yes, the $57.8 billion you mention above is wages, but that is only for *one* year.
The total Earnings Suspense File is somewhere between $500 and $600 billion. Now, if you take the
roughly 10% devoted to SS, you get the $50 billion in my original post.

[RickH]

On Aug 10, 8:44 am, greg3347 wrote:
On Aug 9, 11:15 pm, GeorgeWashingtonAdmirer
wrote:



What do you expect when quick-buck-artist contractors hire illegal aliens
who typically use a dozen aliases, are drunk and/or high, and who not even
the police know the true names of, right off the street or the parking lot
of a Home Depot?

As early as a few years ago I was posting links to a Consumer Reports
article about this very issue, which even at that junture was emerging as a
serious issue. It was OBVIOUS even then, to anyone with any sense, that
down the road there was going to be a national epidemic of serious
construction problems with the perhaps millions of new illegal-alien-bult
homes that sprouted across the USA during the heady "to-hell-with-the-law"
1990s and into the new millennium.

While understandably frustrated, the homeowners who bought such crappy
illegal-alien-assembled houses should be thankful if the illegals who built
their houses don't return to the scene of their labor to rape, rob or
murder them (there are LOTS of news reports of ilegal alien "day laborers"
raping, robbing and murdering those who hired them -- seewww.daylaborers.orgorperform your own online serach, for example).

I'm reminded of a GREAT video at YouTube (and probably other websites) of
a trained, experienced, skilled Mexican-American construction worker giving
an OUTSTANDING speech -- on-site at a construction site which uses illegal
aliens -- exactly on this whole issue. I hope someone can post a link to
it, or remind me of the man's name, for in my opinion he's the salt of the
earth, a GREAT American, and the kind of Mexican-AMERICAN I *thought* I was
going to find in California, as opposed to the "For The Race Everything,
for those outside The Race nothing" anti-American, ¡Mexico First! illegal
aliens who've flooded the region.
------------------------------------------------------
You Call This a Home?

The next boom for builders may be complaints from angry homeowners

By MARA DER HOVANESIAN
BusinessWeek Online

Residents of a new housing development in South Carolina fear that fumes
from contaminated soil have caused dizziness and blackouts. In Colorado,
homeowners say they were led to believe they'd enjoy a recreational lake
that never materialized, causing property values to slip. As the housing
slump worsens, U.S. homebuilders increasingly find themselves fending off
complaints of shoddy construction, unsavory sales tactics, and use of
unsafe land.

There's no definitive gauge of consumer sentiment toward builders, but
several signs point to growing unease. The annual new-home satisfaction
surveys done by J.D. Power & Associates, which like BusinessWeek is a unit
of The McGraw-Hill Companies, showed customer attitudes improving from 2001
to 2004 and then leveling off. But last year's survey, released in
September, showed a 7 percent increase in the number of construction-defect
complaints per home.

Criterium Engineers, a Portland, Maine building-inspection service active
in 35 states, found that from 2003 to 2006 the number of new homes with
"significant problems" rose more than 13 percent. A public fund in Nevada
created to settle builder complaints paid claims of nearly $1.2 million in
2006, up from $234,000 in 2003.

This is only the beginning, says Ronald T. Kozlowski, a property casualty
actuary with the consulting firm Towers Perrin in San Francisco. "Right now
you're seeing the construction claims start to come in," he says, "but
it'll take five to seven years" to get a full measure of the angry fallout.
Anti-builder Web sites are proliferating, and two consumer groups,
HomeOwners for Better Building and Homeowners Against Deficient Dwellings,
are compiling online lists of beefs against developers.

Whenever there's a rush of building as there has been over the last five
years, complaints are sure to follow. Some can be written off to
unrealistic expectations. The National Association of Home Builders says 55
percent of customer grievances concern caulking, paint, and other nitpicky
issues. This time the grumbling may be exacerbated by frustration over
developers' lending practices. And in areas where home values are dropping,
every chipped tile is infuriating.

[GWA note: Notice how the pro-corporate Business Week article tries to
minimize the American home buyers' complaints, even suggesting that
homeowners stuck with expensive but crappy, shoddily-built homes are
"nitpicking" out of spite! Yet NO MENTION WHATSOEVER of the proverbial
"elephant in the living room": connecting the construction problems to
*those* *who* *did* *the* *constructing*!]

Builders have inoculated themselves effectively against customers taking
their objections to court. Homeowners generally don't have the right to
sue; their only legal recourse is arbitration, as required in most sales
contracts.

[GWA note: So in the "America" of 2007 the ILLEGAL ALIENS who built the
shoddily-constructed houses can sue entire U.S. cities (does the name
"Hazleton, Pennsylvania" ring a bell?) but AMERICANS themselves CAN'T use
the same legal system to sue!]

Contracts also typically prohibit customers from disclosing problems to
the media or prospective buyers. Better Business Bureaus aren't always
helpful, because builders can simply drop out. Four big builders
voluntarily left Houston's BBB in 2004 and 2005, for example. And builders
are only lightly regulated, primarily by state and local authorities.

Even so, consumers are becoming increasingly vocal in their complaints.
Clyde M. and Tracy D. Singleton, a couple in their 50s from Shepherdstown,
W.Va., say that one month after they moved into their new $409,000 house
last October, the basement filled with sewage a foot deep. Tracy says the
couple spent three months in a hotel before their developer, Reston,
Va.-based NVR Inc., got the place cleaned up. The Singletons have resisted
arbitration. Instead they have alleged in a suit pending in federal court
in Martinsburg, W.Va., that NVR failed to put in an underground shut-off
valve to prevent sewage from backing up into their house. The plaintiffs
claim that since the valve should have been installed outside of their
home, the dispute isn't covered by the arbitration clause in their
contract.

NVR counters in a motion to dismiss the suit that the action lacks any
merit. The Singletons have "failed to allege any facts" indicating that the
company "unreasonably used its property" to harm the plaintiffs, NVR
argues.

Lennar Corp. another large builder, has drawn scrutiny in South Carolina.
Residents of its new Pebble Creek development in North Charleston, such as
Bill and Holly Hurley, say they have suffered from light-headedness,
lethargy, and depression. Home inspections they commissioned showed unsafe
levels of methane gas, which the Hurleys and others fear may be linked to
possible soil contamination by a previous land owner.

Miami-based Lennar says in a written statement that it "hired a
consulting firm before the land was developed and found no evidence of
recognized environmental conditions" at that time. Playing down health
concerns, Lennar acknowledges that methane has seeped out of "broken sewer
pipes and improperly seated toilets," which it says it has now repaired.
The ultimate source of the gas hasn't been determined, however. The company
has bought back one house as a result of the controversy.

Lennar perceives another cause for anxiety in Pebble Creek. Its general
counsel, Mark Sustana, says in an interview that buyers are aggravated over
seeing their investments depreciate as the housing boom has given way to a
bust.

http://realestate.aol.com/article/_a...me/20070806142...
************************************************** ***********************
PLEASE EMAIL THESE LINKS TO EVERYONE YOU KNOW:

"The Illegal-Alien Crime Wave" by Heather MacDonaldwww.City-Journal.org/html/14_1_the_illegal_alien.html

http://www.PredatoryAliens.comwww.Im....DayLaborers.o...
See the COLOSSAL costs of illegal aliens to the American taxpayer:www.ImmigrationCounters.com
---------------------------------------------
"Por La Raza todo. Fuera de La Raza nada"
("For The Race everything, for those outside The Race nothing")

-- Motto of MEChA, one of the nation's largest publically-funded
organizations with cells on high school and college campuses across the USA
(Note: Attorney General Alberto Gonzalez says he "used to be" a member)
---------------------------------------------
"How Eisenhower solved illegal border crossings from Mexico"
By John Dillinhttp://www.csmonitor.com/2006/0706/p09s01-coop.html

Excerpt:

"General Eisenhower ... quoted a report in The New York Times,
highlighting one paragraph that said: 'The rise in illegal border-crossing
by Mexican 'wetbacks' to a current rate of more than
1,000,000 cases a year has been accompanied by a curious relaxation
in ethical standards extending all the way from the farmer-exploiters
of this contraband labor to the highest levels of the Federal
Government ..."

"Herbert Brownell Jr., Eisenhower's first attorney general, said the
president had a sense of urgency about illegal immigration when he took
office.

"America 'was faced with a breakdown in law enforcement on a very large
scale,' Mr. Brownell said. 'When I say large scale, I mean hundreds of
thousands were coming in from Mexico [every year] without restraint.'"
--------------------------------------------------
Just two of MANY American cops

...

read more »- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

No they are hard laborers that do exactly what the boss tells them to,
even if the boss cant find his ass with both hands. In Chicago the
illegal immigrants have all but taken over the drywall and lathing
trades, those unions are basically kaput, why, because the work is
dirty, hard and the results the illegals provided at a very low cost
was good. The next trade around here going to the illegals are
framing crews, last year (when they were still building homes)
practically every framing crew I see was Mexican, trim carpentry is
still union though. The next trade going to them is excavation and
concrete work. Then I would say bricklaying comes next most of these
crews have been illegal, especially the crews provided by the brick
supply yards, but commercial brickwork is still all union because they
will shut down the whole job if one illegal is found on commercial
site laying a brick. Of course landscape work too. Plumbing and
Electrical are the last two real hold outs for union labor, and in
Chicago you rarely see illegals doing Plumbing or Electrical work.

[Vic Smith]

On Tue, 14 Aug 2007 15:11:44 -0000, thunder
wrote:

On Tue, 14 Aug 2007 09:22:50 -0500, Vic Smith wrote:

On Tue, 14 Aug 2007 12:52:00 -0000, thunder
wrote:

On Tue, 14 Aug 2007 07:04:49 -0500, Vic Smith wrote:


Those Social Security taxes are helping to keep Social Security
afloat. It's estimated illegals account for $50 billion or 10% of the
Social Security surplus.

http://www.reason.org/commentaries/d...20060501.shtml



You have to be joking. I posted a link to an article from Knight Ridder. That's an "BS article from an Un-
American (IMO) right-wing, neocon/Wall Street funded organization?" Oh well, you can read the same
fact I quoted he
http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepu...mmigpay10.html

Or he
http://www.immigrationforum.org/Desk...aspx?tabid=724

Oh, and just to clarify, yes, the $57.8 billion you mention above is wages, but that is only for *one* year.
The total Earnings Suspense File is somewhere between $500 and $600 billion. Now, if you take the
roughly 10% devoted to SS, you get the $50 billion in my original post.

Your original link is at the top. That is the original source.
It deceived you into this little argument with its probably
intentional conflating of revenue and wages.
I already recommended that you check your sources and math.
Let me be more clear. Don't believe everything you read on the
internet, no matter how you linked to it.
Even if it's from a boater.
I won't walk you through it, but you can easily find who is behind the
Reason Foundation. You may agree with them. I don't.
As to your new cites, the 2nd is a rehash of the first, which has
nothing to support your claim.
As to your "clarification," you are appling and oranging.
You want to apply multiple year suspense wages against one year of
surplus in order to reach your mythical 10%.
It won't fly, and is blatantly dishonest. I don't think you're
stupid, and I don't know your motives.
But I'm out of this conversation, just because you're starting to ****
me off.

--Vic

[Dave[_3_]]

"realitytrucker" wrote in message
ps.com...
On Aug 13, 5:09 pm, KLS wrote:
On Mon, 13 Aug 2007 17:46:29 -0400, "Dave"
wrote about immigrants (illegal, I presume):

What you've described is not the problem. They are hard working people.
The
problem is they don't pay taxes,

Give me a @#%$&*+ break. They pay the same @#%$&*+ taxes you do every
@#%$&*+ time they buy a @#%$&*+ thing. Their rent pays taxes, or did
you not realize that tenants are basically paying their landlord's
taxes with their rent? Stop perpetuating this canard. I won't even
address the rest of your post and its pathetic lack of logic and
humanity.

Income taxes. THAT'S what he's talking about. They're illegal
immigrants and they're getting paid under the table which means no
taxes are deducted. And if taxes ARE being deducted the employer is
not paying them to the government. No social security is being
deducted from their checks either.


Man I thought it was very simple to figure that one out. I guess when you're
stupid you need pictures!

[Dave[_3_]]

wrote in message
...
On Tue, 14 Aug 2007 02:29:59 GMT, "BigIronRam" wrote:

I don't know if this scam is still common, but what they used to do was
claim 99 dependents so they had no withholding. It takes a few months
before SSA wakes up and sends a letter saying there must be a mistake in
the
withholding. So they fill out a new W4 and claim 98 dependents, another
few
months before SSA gets around to looking again. Then it's 97 dependents,
sung to the tune of 99 bottles of beer...


The IRS doesn't allow that but most of these guys really do have 5 or
6 dependents so they would get all their tax money back and maybe even
a little more if they could file a 1040. You also pay your SS tax on
the first dollar with no deductions tho. That is really the only tax
burden a guy with four kids making $20,000 a year has. You would get
all your income taxes back.

And that's fine if he's out there busting his ass the legal way.

[Dave[_3_]]

"KLS" wrote in message
...

Then say "income taxes"!!! How hard is it to use correct terminology?

This is what I hate about people who demonize others of minority or
disadvanaged groups: their use of misinformation involved in this
kind of twisted talk. It's just wrong.

You're the one that can't figure out simple situations and besides I really
don't think I ran anyone down. If you're too stupid to realize that everyone
pays sales tax and that's not the issue then you should politely bow out
before you make yourself look anymore ignorant.

[Caesar Romano]

On Tue, 14 Aug 2007 20:04:59 -0400, wrote Re
SURPRISED?: New report shows epidemic of shoddy illegal-alien-built
homes hitting USA hard!:

If we are going to hope SS is going to be there in 10 years we need a
lot of people working at the bottom of the pyramid. Maybe if we let
enough mexicans come here they would stop shipping the jobs there.

That is indeed what SS is: a pyramid scheme. It requires ever more
people at the bottom. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyramid_scheme
for more info.

Also note we have stopped shipping jobs to Mexico. Now we ship them to
China. Even the Mexicans can compete with $1/day Chinese slave labor.

[[email protected]]

On Aug 14, 12:32 pm, Vic Smith
wrote:
On Tue, 14 Aug 2007 01:58:36 -0400, wrote:
On Mon, 13 Aug 2007 17:46:29 -0400, "Dave"
wrote:

What you've described is not the problem. They are hard working people. The
problem is they don't pay taxes

That is not true at all, in fact the employer is required to take out
the taxes on the SSN they provide, but since it is a phony number,
they will never get anything back from SS. (or a refund from IRS) That
is why the SS administration puts, in big print on the mismatch SSN
form,
"DO NOT TERMINATE AN EMPLOYEE BASED ON THIS REPORT"
They are getting the SS tax and income taxes that they will never have
to pay back.
Thjere is some US born bum living in a dumpster somewhere who maxes
out his FICA every year from illegals using his number and he doesn't
even know it.

They just had an item on the local Fox news in Chicago last night.
Construction trade illegals doing bricklaying. Their "paychecks" were
shown. Simple personal checks.
No income tax.
No SS taxes.
No workers comp.
No insurance.
You know, just an amount.
One fell on the job and broke both arms.
The company had the injured worker's wife take him to Cook County
hospital and told her to tell the ER he fell at home.
Besides these situations where SS numbers are not even used, many SS
numbers are bogus. The guv - although that might change - is averse
to enforcing the law.
Laws are being broken left and right. Workers are abused - Americans
and illegals.
And here you and others are making excuses for it, and deriding
American workers.
Me and 2 other neighbors mow our own lawns around here. The rest of
maybe 50homesup and down the street are being done by illegals.
Dollars to donuts they're getting personal checks or cash from the
landscaper.
About 80% of kitchen staff where my wife is head cook are illegals.
She outworks any 3 of them. They are generally lazy, incompetent, and
uncaring about their work, probably because they are underpaid and
mismanaged. Oh yeah, one of them stole 30 bucks from her purse in her
unlocked locker a couple day ago, just so you don't imagine that all
working illegals are just like the quaintly angelic villagers you saw
in Magnificent 7.
They ain't no different than Americans, except they ain't Americans.
She has seen the same Juan Gomez with 4 different faces, one of them a
female. And that Juan Gomez SSN might well be bogus.
Talking about SS and employment "rules" as you do above tells me you
don't know much about this.

--Vic- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

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