On Mon, 28 Feb 2005 21:43:38 -0500, Will wrote:

Not much of a surprise. We often find their books are say $22 when via
chapters.ca or amazon.ca they are more than $30.

Never Enough Money wrote:
Just did a price comparison fom 12" Jorgenson cabinet master clamps.
(Quantity = 4)

Amazon = $32 but no shipping = $128
Lee Valley = $25 + shipping = $108

Hmmm.

$35.40 Canadian, which at current exchange rates should be about $28.75US
each. You're still getting a deal, not just because of the exchange rate.

So LVT is still ripping off us poor Canadians by refusing to take a hit on
the rise of the Canadian dollar and unfairly giving you Merkins a deal on
stuff. (Just kidding, Rob.)



--
Luigi
Replace "nonet" with "yukonomics" for real email
www.yukonomics.ca/wooddorking/humour.html
www.yukonomics.ca/wooddorking/antifaq.html

Just did a price comparison fom 12" Jorgenson cabinet master clamps.
(Quantity = 4)

Amazon = $32 but no shipping = $128
Lee Valley = $25 + shipping = $108

Hmmm.

Not much of a surprise. We often find their books are say $22 when via
chapters.ca or amazon.ca they are more than $30.


Never Enough Money wrote:
Just did a price comparison fom 12" Jorgenson cabinet master clamps.
(Quantity = 4)

Amazon = $32 but no shipping = $128
Lee Valley = $25 + shipping = $108

Hmmm.


--
Will
Occasional Techno-geek

Never Enough Money wrote:

Just did a price comparison fom 12" Jorgenson cabinet master clamps.
(Quantity = 4)

Amazon = $32 but no shipping = $128
Lee Valley = $25 + shipping = $108


Shows ta go ya that you're paying for "free shipping" somehow...

Moral--there is no free lunch (at least in perpetuity)...

Just did a price comparison fom 12" Jorgenson cabinet master clamps.
(Quantity = 4)

Amazon = $32 but no shipping = $128
Lee Valley = $25 + shipping = $108

Hmmm.


Not taking sides but its not fair to make a global comparison of (Amazon vs
Lee Valley) based on one product's price differences.

For example, 4 x 48" Cabinet Masters from Amazon is $173.75 including
shipping and $194.00 from LV without any shipping price added.

"Never Enough Money" writes:

Just did a price comparison fom 12" Jorgenson cabinet master clamps.
(Quantity = 4)

Amazon = $32 but no shipping = $128
Lee Valley = $25 + shipping = $108

Well, sounds like you can make sure of the section that says:

Lowest Prices Guaranteed: If you find a better price elsewhere on any
Tools & Hardware product offered by Amazon.com, we will match that
price and beat it by 10% of the difference.



--
Sending unsolicited commercial e-mail to this account incurs a fee of
$500 per message, and acknowledges the legality of this contract.

Duane Bozarth wrote:
Never Enough Money wrote:

Just did a price comparison fom 12" Jorgenson cabinet master
clamps.
(Quantity = 4)

Amazon = $32 but no shipping = $128
Lee Valley = $25 + shipping = $108


Shows ta go ya that you're paying for "free shipping" somehow...

Moral--there is no free lunch (at least in perpetuity)...

No necessarily. Probably 90% of the time I find items which are the
least expensive on Amazon AND they have free shipping.

Larry Bud wrote:

Duane Bozarth wrote:
Never Enough Money wrote:

Just did a price comparison fom 12" Jorgenson cabinet master
clamps.
(Quantity = 4)

Amazon = $32 but no shipping = $128
Lee Valley = $25 + shipping = $108


Shows ta go ya that you're paying for "free shipping" somehow...

Moral--there is no free lunch (at least in perpetuity)...

No necessarily. Probably 90% of the time I find items which are the
least expensive on Amazon AND they have free shipping.

My comparisons have not been so uniformly in favor of Amazon...depends
on what you buy, undoubtedly. Somewhat like assuming Wally-World, etc.,
are always cheapest place in town...some is, some isn't...

Duane Bozarth writes:

Shows ta go ya that you're paying for "free shipping" somehow...

Moral--there is no free lunch (at least in perpetuity)...

I just bought a Jet 12" disc sander from Amazon. $225 shipped. Most
everybody else is at $250 or so plus shipping or tax.

Brian Elfert

Bruce Barnett writes:

Well, sounds like you can make sure of the section that says:

Lowest Prices Guaranteed: If you find a better price elsewhere on any
Tools & Hardware product offered by Amazon.com, we will match that
price and beat it by 10% of the difference.

Amazon won't match other web sites. Most B&M stores aren't going to be
less than Amazon, although a few are.

Brian Elfert

In article ,
"Luigi Zanasi" wrote:

[schnipperectomy]
So LVT is still ripping off us poor Canadians by refusing to take a hit on
the rise of the Canadian dollar and unfairly giving you Merkins a deal on
stuff. (Just kidding, Rob.)

One of the reasons LVT is a little bit more than others is that they
service outposts like yours, Luigi *g,d & r*
"Even on the Canadian frontier can a quality tool be had!"

This world would be a better place if all companies would conduct
business with the integrity of the Lee family.
You get a piece of that with every tool you buy from them. You can't put
a price on that.

0¿0

Rob

On Tue, 01 Mar 2005 10:20:49 -0500, Robatoy wrote:

In article ,
"Luigi Zanasi" wrote:

[schnipperectomy]
So LVT is still ripping off us poor Canadians by refusing to take a hit
on the rise of the Canadian dollar and unfairly giving you Merkins a
deal on stuff. (Just kidding, Rob.)

One of the reasons LVT is a little bit more than others is that they
service outposts like yours, Luigi *g,d & r* "Even on the Canadian
frontier can a quality tool be had!"

I've been trying to get Robin to open a store in Whitehorse for over six
years now, but he refuses to respond. Anyway, I pay the same shipping
costs as you do when I order stuff. Heh! heh!

In case you weren't around at the time, the reference was to a
particularily obnoxious troll/idiot last fall who wasted a lot of bits
****ing and moaning about the fact that LVT prices were higher in Canada
than US prices and claiming that LVT was ripping us off. People wasted a
lot of bandwidth playing whack-a-mole with him trying to explain the
reality of exchange rates and fixed catalogue pricing.

This world would be a better place if all companies would conduct
business with the integrity of the Lee family. You get a piece of that
with every tool you buy from them. You can't put a price on that.

Agree totally.

--
Luigi
Replace "nonet" with "yukonomics" for real email
www.yukonomics.ca/wooddorking/humour.html
www.yukonomics.ca/wooddorking/antifaq.html

Brian Elfert wrote:

Duane Bozarth writes:

Shows ta go ya that you're paying for "free shipping" somehow...

Moral--there is no free lunch (at least in perpetuity)...

I just bought a Jet 12" disc sander from Amazon. $225 shipped. Most
everybody else is at $250 or so plus shipping or tax.


So? Simply shows that there are (still) pricing differences across
vendors. I check Amazon and use them a significant amount but haven't
found them universally cheaper...as noted in another response, that
probably reflects particular purchase patterns, as well. Point was,
Amazon has to pay for the shipping somehow...it ain't "free", it's
built into the pricing structure...

No comparison.
Lee Valley provides a select product line that serves a small slice of the
market.
Amazon's product line is vast and widening as is consumer base.

Lee Valley actually has very good customer service. It costs extra and it is
reflected in the price or profit margin. ANSTAAFL.
Amazon has little or no customer service and relies on volume and consumer
frustration to solve problems.

I will buy it from Robin Lee and LVT if they have it. If they don't (like
Leigh stuff in the US!) I'm forced to deal with others.

Dave



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"Brian Elfert" wrote in message
...

Amazon won't match other web sites. Most B&M stores aren't going to be


Izzat new?
They matched a web site price for me on my DW735 about a year ago...

I am a long time customer of both Amazon and Lee Valley. 90% of the
time, Amazon is competitive. I disagree with the post that implied Lee
Valley customer service was better than Amazon's. I've found both to be
exceptional. However, if you want to find out how a tool is used,
care/maintenance, etc. Lee Valley rules. Amazon takes stuff back w/o
question.

I'm glad both exists.

"patrick conroy" writes:


Izzat new?
They matched a web site price for me on my DW735 about a year ago...

The policy specifically says no web sites unless they also have a catalog
or a B&M store. I guess they don't want to compete with some guy taking
orders out of his house and having everything drop shipped.

You also have to call to get a price match which isn't worth to to me
unless the savings is a lot.

Brian Elfert

I live in Springfield, Illinois and I have purchased several things from Lee
Valley and have never been disappointed with them and they have good prices.


"Brian Elfert" wrote in message
...
"patrick conroy" writes:


Izzat new?
They matched a web site price for me on my DW735 about a year ago...

The policy specifically says no web sites unless they also have a catalog
or a B&M store. I guess they don't want to compete with some guy taking
orders out of his house and having everything drop shipped.

You also have to call to get a price match which isn't worth to to me
unless the savings is a lot.

Brian Elfert

On 1-Mar-2005, Brian Elfert wrote:

The policy specifically says no web sites unless they also have a catalog
or a B&M store.

Shouldn't be a problem with LVT - they have both a printed catalog
and real stores.

Mike

On 1 Mar 2005 12:45:37 -0800, "Never Enough Money"
wrote:

I am a long time customer of both Amazon and Lee Valley. 90% of the
time, Amazon is competitive. I disagree with the post that implied Lee
Valley customer service was better than Amazon's. I've found both to be
exceptional. However, if you want to find out how a tool is used,
care/maintenance, etc. Lee Valley rules. Amazon takes stuff back w/o
question.

I'm glad both exists.

Me too. Competition is a shopper's friend.

Amazon takes stuff back w/o question.

I'm glad both exists.

I have trouble returning a (insert long story) product from Amazon. It took
weeks to fix.
I do however, still do business with them when it makes sense. I too am a
great believer in competition, we all benefit in some way. However,
companies like Lee Valley could not exist if their product line was not
suited for a small market. How long do you think they would last if the
BORG sold everything Lee Valley did and at lower prices? People in general
will put up with bad customer service to save a buck.

Dave

PS: Keep up the good work Robin!



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"TeamCasa" wrote in message
...
Amazon takes stuff back w/o question.

I'm glad both exists.

I have trouble returning a (insert long story) product from Amazon. It
took
weeks to fix.
I do however, still do business with them when it makes sense. I too am a
great believer in competition, we all benefit in some way. However,
companies like Lee Valley could not exist if their product line was not
suited for a small market. How long do you think they would last if the
BORG sold everything Lee Valley did and at lower prices? People in
general
will put up with bad customer service to save a buck.

Dave

PS: Keep up the good work Robin!
snip

Hi Dave -

The BORG can't have our line...they'd have to buy our patents first... -
and about 25% of our sales are things we actually make...

In business, there are few absolutes though... price isn't everything, but
it's certainly important where there's no value added by the seller. The
quest for low prices has driven many businesses offshore, and has
consolidated a lot of product under large roofs....entire manufacturers have
dissappeared as companies are acquired by comglomerates to service box store
business...

Really - it's all the fault of the internet.... economics is a much more
exact "science" today than it ever has been - consumers are much closer to
having "perfect knowledge" than before.... all that ECON 101 theory has a
lot more real world direct relevance than it did a decade ago....

I'm sure there's a good paper in all this somewhere......

Cheers -

Rob

(and thanks for the kind words)

Robin Lee wrote:
Really - it's all the fault of the internet.... economics is a much more
exact "science" today than it ever has been - consumers are much closer to
having "perfect knowledge" than before.... all that ECON 101 theory has a
lot more real world direct relevance than it did a decade ago....

The Internet is just the latest in a long series of improvements.
When Grog the cave man needed a new pointed stick, and his neighbor Ug
in the next cave was selling pointed sticks for 3 rocks, Grog paid up
the three rocks or made his own pointed stick. Little did he know
that on the other side of the hill, the going rate for pointed sticks
was just 2 rocks, and if you bought 6 of them at once, they threw in
an antelope jaw for free.

Then along came the Sears catalog, and you could order pointed sticks
at 3 for 2 rocks and 99 pebbles (and no sales tax!) from some town
far, far away, made by people who you've never met.

"Roy Smith" wrote in message
...
Robin Lee wrote:
Really - it's all the fault of the internet.... economics is a much more
exact "science" today than it ever has been - consumers are much closer
to
having "perfect knowledge" than before.... all that ECON 101 theory has a
lot more real world direct relevance than it did a decade ago....

The Internet is just the latest in a long series of improvements.
When Grog the cave man needed a new pointed stick, and his neighbor Ug
in the next cave was selling pointed sticks for 3 rocks, Grog paid up
the three rocks or made his own pointed stick. Little did he know
that on the other side of the hill, the going rate for pointed sticks
was just 2 rocks, and if you bought 6 of them at once, they threw in
an antelope jaw for free.

Then along came the Sears catalog, and you could order pointed sticks
at 3 for 2 rocks and 99 pebbles (and no sales tax!) from some town
far, far away, made by people who you've never met.

....great... now Ug's unemployed too....

The way we spend money at LV _you_ don't need to worry about that for a
while. LOL


Robin Lee wrote:
...great... now Ug's unemployed too....








--
Will
Occasional Techno-geek

"Robin Lee" wrote in news:X_mVd.33251$Vf6.993784
@news20.bellglobal.com:

...great... now Ug's unemployed too....




Rob,

No, I think he's now the pointy stick expert at the BORG.

I also hear HF is going to have deal now on Chiwanese Pointy Sticks; I
think, though, that the point's going to be on the other end ...

Regards,
JT

Jerry S. wrote:
"Robin Lee" wrote in message
. ..

"Roy Smith" wrote in message
...
Robin Lee wrote:
... Little did he know
that on the other side of the hill, the going rate for pointed
sticks
was just 2 rocks, and if you bought 6 of them at once, they threw
in
an antelope jaw for free.

Then along came the Sears catalog, and you could order pointed
sticks
at 3 for 2 rocks and 99 pebbles (and no sales tax!) from some
town
far, far away, made by people who you've never met.

...great... now Ug's unemployed too....




Dammit. I ordered my 6 pointed sticks after the antelope jaw offer
expired.
:-(


I've already got an antelope jaw, but I'm waiting for the upgraded
version. In the meantime, I'm saving my rocks and pebbles.

Of course, if you don't need the features of the new antelope jaw, I
suspect they'll be blowing out the old ones just before the new ones
are released.

"Robin Lee" wrote in message


Really - it's all the fault of the internet.... economics is a much more
exact "science" today than it ever has been - consumers are much closer to
having "perfect knowledge" than before.... all that ECON 101 theory has a
lot more real world direct relevance than it did a decade ago....

I'm sure there's a good paper in all this somewhere......

Cheers -

Rob

(and thanks for the kind words)

Do you think the internet has been a help to the consumer at the expense of
the seller? Or do you think it just made us more knowledgeable?

I agree that there probably is a good paper in there. It certainly has
changed how I do business. I buy things I never knew existed before, from
sources I never knew existed before. My source for simple things like tea
(also from Canada) to more complex tools like Veritas are 100% internet
related. I never heard of Lee Valley or Veritas before the internet and that
was from a source about cooking, not woodwork.

Appliances, brand name tools can be found in many stores, but I narrow my
search through the internet. I buy from where I perceive to be the best
value. Price is a factor, but much more makes something a good value.
Service and a known quality come into play. The big box stores have also
forced the little guys to form buying co-ops to give the local consumer a
much better value. Competitive prices with usually superior service.
--
Ed
http://pages.cthome.net/edhome/

"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in message
. com...

"Robin Lee" wrote in message


Really - it's all the fault of the internet.... economics is a much more
exact "science" today than it ever has been - consumers are much closer
to
having "perfect knowledge" than before.... all that ECON 101 theory has
a
lot more real world direct relevance than it did a decade ago....

I'm sure there's a good paper in all this somewhere......

Cheers -

Rob

(and thanks for the kind words)

Do you think the internet has been a help to the consumer at the expense
of
the seller? Or do you think it just made us more knowledgeable?

I agree that there probably is a good paper in there. It certainly has
changed how I do business. I buy things I never knew existed before, from
sources I never knew existed before. My source for simple things like tea
(also from Canada) to more complex tools like Veritas are 100% internet
related. I never heard of Lee Valley or Veritas before the internet and
that
was from a source about cooking, not woodwork.

Appliances, brand name tools can be found in many stores, but I narrow my
search through the internet. I buy from where I perceive to be the best
value. Price is a factor, but much more makes something a good value.
Service and a known quality come into play. The big box stores have also
forced the little guys to form buying co-ops to give the local consumer a
much better value. Competitive prices with usually superior service.
--
Ed
http://pages.cthome.net/edhome/



Hi Edwin -

It's economic Darwinism... not good... not bad.... just depends on how/who
adapts!

Speaking as a consumer - the Internet has been a boon... (just as it has on
the business side)...

I personally still buy just as much from local business I trust and value
though - where they add value to my purchase.

There are only three things I'm wary about... the agglutinated businesses
(i.e. Am***n), the profit per transaction based businesses (boxes, W**mart),
and the people selling out of their garages...I'm not conviced they're a net
"benefit" to the retail world....or to individual manufacturers.


Cheers -

Rob

On 2-Mar-2005, "Edwin Pawlowski" wrote:

Do you think the internet has been a help to the consumer at the expense of
the seller? Or do you think it just made us more knowledgeable?

My take - not that you asked - is that my behavior hasn't changed
much but the information I need is _much_ easier to access. I
can make informed decisions quicker.

Mike

"Robin Lee" wrote in message
It's economic Darwinism... not good... not bad.... just depends on how/who
adapts!

There are only three things I'm wary about... the agglutinated businesses
(i.e. Am***n), the profit per transaction based businesses (boxes,
W**mart),
and the people selling out of their garages...I'm not conviced they're a
net
"benefit" to the retail world....or to individual manufacturers.

It may take years to play out, but I think it is going to be a serious net
loss to the economy as we know it. Especially the second example. As we go
from a manufacturing based economy to a casino gambling based economy we sit
back and admire the goods we bought at such low prices until . . . . . . . .

Then the Pogo theory comes in to play. We have met the enemy and it is us.

Just received my Jorgenson clamps from Lee Valley today. These are my
first Cabinet Master clamsp and I must say, I like them better than
Bessey K-Body's -- at least the fit and finish. I can't see much
difference in things like parallelism and clamping force.

I'm now a Cabinet Master man!

I used to be, until last week I had one of my 40" clamps break in half next
to the screw.
Going back to Bessey

Ken



"Never Enough Money" wrote in message
ups.com...
Just received my Jorgenson clamps from Lee Valley today. These are my
first Cabinet Master clamsp and I must say, I like them better than
Bessey K-Body's -- at least the fit and finish. I can't see much
difference in things like parallelism and clamping force.

I'm now a Cabinet Master man!

Hmmmm.

"Never Enough Money" wrote in message
oups.com...
Hmmmm.


.... no sweat for either brand...

Both manufacturer's stand behind their products - and if they don't (and you
bought 'em from us) we will..!

Cheers -

Rob