Sufferin' succotash. Just read that Sears and Kmart will merge, an 11 billion
buck deal, with the Kmart head leading the Sears Holding Co. that will emerge,
and the Sears CEO being CEO of the group.

I can see the benefit to Kmart. I cannot see the benefit to Sears.

Oh, yeah. Headquarters to remain at Sears headquarters, with a "significant
presence" at Kmart headquarters.

Predicted to be a $55 billion company, but I've seen claims for larger than
life companies before, including one I recently worked for that claimed $100
million, when balance sheets showed it was about $38-$45 million back then.

Supposed to come in as #3 behind Walmart and Target.

Charlie Self
"Health nuts are going to feel stupid someday, lying in hospitals dying of
nothing."
Redd Foxx

"Charlie Self" wrote in message

Supposed to come in as #3 behind Walmart and Target.

With their 50 cent a day labor force, the Chinese oughta love the increased
efficiency for 'dumping' opportunities. Just where the hell is that "vast
market for American goods" that Clinton was gushing about?

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 11/06/04

Check out tele comms....mjh

--
http://members.tripod.com/mikehide2
"Swingman" wrote in message
...
"Charlie Self" wrote in message

Supposed to come in as #3 behind Walmart and Target.

With their 50 cent a day labor force, the Chinese oughta love the
increased
efficiency for 'dumping' opportunities. Just where the hell is that "vast
market for American goods" that Clinton was gushing about?

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 11/06/04

"Charlie Self" wrote in message
...
Sufferin' succotash. Just read that Sears and Kmart will merge, an 11
billion
buck deal, with the Kmart head leading the Sears Holding Co. that will
emerge,
and the Sears CEO being CEO of the group.

I can see the benefit to Kmart. I cannot see the benefit to Sears.


I don't follow it either. Kmart just underwent a major restructuring last
year (or so). I think they declared bankruptcy and issued new stock. In
the meantime, they have been struggling with cash flow and have been selling
off a lot of their buildings and properties to keep the company afloat. I
don't see why Sears would want to hitch it's wagon to Kmart.

Frank

Bob Schmall responds:

buck deal, with the Kmart head leading the Sears Holding Co. that will
emerge,
and the Sears CEO being CEO of the group.

I can see the benefit to Kmart. I cannot see the benefit to Sears.

I'm no retail genius--or any other kind--but it seems to me that Sears long
ago conceded the rural market that it was built upon to WalMart. As an
urban-suburban retailer, Sears needed more street locations than dying malls
could provide; enter K-Mart.
Also, K-Mart can be an outlet for cheaper goods that Sears can buy in
quantity, maybe even the Lands End stuff that hasn't been doing well in the
mainline stores.

Obviously, someone there sees some brilliance in the idea, but IIRC, Kmart came
close to going all the way down the tubes a couple years ago, while Sears'
performance hasn't been stellar in recent years (going back to when the hired
the Bloomingdale type as Prez, I think).

My problem with the concept is that I've done some low end shopping at Kmart
(usually to get Coke when it's on sale there and not elsewhere).

The stores are dirty, low ceilinged, stocked poorly and haphazardly, and the
personnel might be desirable in an "ignore the asshole, he's only a customer"
contest, but otherwise, I guess Kmart is OK.

Sears retail stores seem to be understaffed, but the staff I've seen have all
been at least halfway decently trained, are polite and have at least a small
clue as to why they're there.

Hell, my mother was an inveterate bargain shopper--raised during the Great
Depression and had a solid talent for making a dime do a dollar's worth of
buying--but she avoided Kmart (and Caldor in upstate NY). And she died a dozen
years ago, after being away from Kmarts for nearly a decade, so the decline I
see in them is no recent thing.

But maybe it will work out. Nice to think so. I think I still prefer the Sears
of my youth, with no bricks & mortar stores to amount to anything.


Charlie Self
"Health nuts are going to feel stupid someday, lying in hospitals dying of
nothing."
Redd Foxx

otforme (Charlie Self) writes:
Sufferin' succotash. Just read that Sears and Kmart will merge, an 11 billion
buck deal, with the Kmart head leading the Sears Holding Co. that will emerge,
and the Sears CEO being CEO of the group.

I can see the benefit to Kmart. I cannot see the benefit to Sears.


Actually, Kmart has had 3 consecutive profitable quarters, while sears has
had losses 13 of the last 16 quarters. Seems kmart has successfully re-invented
itself, perhaps sears can learn from that.

scott

On 17 Nov 2004 13:18:05 GMT, otforme (Charlie Self)
wrote:

Sufferin' succotash. Just read that Sears and Kmart will merge, an 11 billion
buck deal, with the Kmart head leading the Sears Holding Co. that will emerge,
and the Sears CEO being CEO of the group.

I can see the benefit to Kmart. I cannot see the benefit to Sears.

Oh, yeah. Headquarters to remain at Sears headquarters, with a "significant
presence" at Kmart headquarters.

Predicted to be a $55 billion company, but I've seen claims for larger than
life companies before, including one I recently worked for that claimed $100
million, when balance sheets showed it was about $38-$45 million back then.

Supposed to come in as #3 behind Walmart and Target.

Charlie Self
"Health nuts are going to feel stupid someday, lying in hospitals dying of
nothing."
Redd Foxx

Very strange strategy!
A few years ago, we had some major gloats when Kmart closed 2 local
stores and had closeout sales to try and pull the company out of
bankruptcy...

Sears has been doing poorly for years and their attempt to compete
with walmart and the borgs by acquiring Orchard Hardware only
increased the bleeding... (the reason that I go to OHS a lot is
because you never have to wait in line.. not a good sign for a retail
outfit)

So, are they figuring that if you put 2 outdated losers together,
they'll become a winner?????

Bottom line (for me anyhow): I don't buy tools or hardware at KMart. I
probably will stop shopping Sears for similar merchandise.

I just ordered an aftermarket rip fence from Sears for $159.00. I don't
expect it to be as precise as a Biesemeyer but it was a lot less expensive,
too. When I pick it up on Friday that will probably be it for Sears tools.
I'm old enough to remember when they provided reasonable quality at
reasonable prices. Sadly, one or the other (or both) have been missing for
a long time.

"Bob Schmall" wrote in message
...

"Charlie Self" wrote in message
...
Sufferin' succotash. Just read that Sears and Kmart will merge, an 11
billion
buck deal, with the Kmart head leading the Sears Holding Co. that will
emerge,
and the Sears CEO being CEO of the group.

I can see the benefit to Kmart. I cannot see the benefit to Sears.

I'm no retail genius--or any other kind--but it seems to me that Sears
long
ago conceded the rural market that it was built upon to WalMart. As an
urban-suburban retailer, Sears needed more street locations than dying
malls
could provide; enter K-Mart.
Also, K-Mart can be an outlet for cheaper goods that Sears can buy in
quantity, maybe even the Lands End stuff that hasn't been doing well in
the
mainline stores.
Bob

"Charlie Self" wrote in message
...

Oh, yeah. Headquarters to remain at Sears headquarters, with a
"significant
presence" at Kmart headquarters.

I heard this am - that the new 10 member board is 7 Kmart'ers and 3
Sears'ers. That caught me off-guard and made me wonder who's eating who
(whom?)?

In article ,
wrote:

If I have a choice I would certainly go to Sears. Kmart is pretty
junky. The store layout is chaos. The products on sale are strictly
low end. Sears has a mix of quality.

Dick


Actually, Kmart has had 3 consecutive profitable quarters, while sears
has
had losses 13 of the last 16 quarters. Seems kmart has successfully
re-invented
itself, perhaps sears can learn from that.

scott

otforme (Charlie Self) wrote:

The stores are dirty, low ceilinged, stocked poorly and haphazardly,
and the personnel might be desirable in an "ignore the asshole, he's
only a customer" contest, but otherwise, I guess Kmart is OK.


You forgot to mention the smell of stale popcorn and rancid hot dogs.

Lobby Dosser adds:

(Charlie Self) wrote:

The stores are dirty, low ceilinged, stocked poorly and haphazardly,
and the personnel might be desirable in an "ignore the asshole, he's
only a customer" contest, but otherwise, I guess Kmart is OK.


You forgot to mention the smell of stale popcorn and rancid hot dogs.

I surely did. Thanks. I think.

Charlie Self
"Health nuts are going to feel stupid someday, lying in hospitals dying of
nothing."
Redd Foxx

"Lobby Dosser" wrote in message
news:NoNmd.6890$m36.3631@trnddc02...
otforme (Charlie Self) wrote:

The stores are dirty, low ceilinged, stocked poorly and haphazardly,
and the personnel might be desirable in an "ignore the asshole, he's
only a customer" contest, but otherwise, I guess Kmart is OK.


You forgot to mention the smell of stale popcorn and rancid hot dogs.

Aaahh...the memories...

"Charlie Self" wrote in message
...
Sufferin' succotash. Just read that Sears and Kmart will merge, an 11
billion
buck deal, with the Kmart head leading the Sears Holding Co. that will
emerge,
and the Sears CEO being CEO of the group.

I can see the benefit to Kmart. I cannot see the benefit to Sears.


Nah, the benefit is to the new store owner. The Sear/K Mart properties
will be divided to 2/3 Wal Mart, 1/3 to Target. Give it three years.

"mac davis" wrote in message
...

So, are they figuring that if you put 2 outdated losers together,
they'll become a winner?????


I think that was the same idea behind the Kerry/Edwards ticket.

"patrick conroy" wrote in message
...

"Charlie Self" wrote in message
...

Oh, yeah. Headquarters to remain at Sears headquarters, with a
"significant
presence" at Kmart headquarters.

I heard this am - that the new 10 member board is 7 Kmart'ers and 3
Sears'ers. That caught me off-guard and made me wonder who's eating who
(whom?)?


It was announced by the business press as "KMart acquires Sears"

On 17 Nov 2004 13:18:05 GMT, otforme (Charlie Self)
wrote:


Supposed to come in as #3 behind Walmart and Target.


Pretty soon it'll all be one company.

Barry

And dried Slurpies on the floor and sidewalks out front. At night their
parking lots were dark (K-mart bit the dust in my neighborhood-yeah!)
because they were too tight to fix the lamps. Time will tell if Kohl's
is a better tenant. I doubt they could be as shabby.


David

Lobby Dosser wrote:
otforme (Charlie Self) wrote:


The stores are dirty, low ceilinged, stocked poorly and haphazardly,
and the personnel might be desirable in an "ignore the asshole, he's
only a customer" contest, but otherwise, I guess Kmart is OK.



You forgot to mention the smell of stale popcorn and rancid hot dogs.

David wrote:

And dried Slurpies on the floor and sidewalks out front. At night
their parking lots were dark (K-mart bit the dust in my
neighborhood-yeah!) because they were too tight to fix the lamps.
Time will tell if Kohl's is a better tenant. I doubt they could be as
shabby.

Partially dried slurpies. There was always that ripping sound coming
from your feet as you walked around - except, of course, where the stale
popcorn adhered to the slurpie. Say, that kind of gets this back on
topic - slurpie as a glue!

Kohl's got their start here in Wisconsin, and have been extremely
successful, to the point that other chains study their store layout and
operations. They should be a huge step up from K-Mart. The owner of the
Milwaukee Bucks, Senator Herb Kohl, is a son of the chain's founder Max
Kohl.
Bob

"David" wrote in message
...
And dried Slurpies on the floor and sidewalks out front. At night their
parking lots were dark (K-mart bit the dust in my neighborhood-yeah!)
because they were too tight to fix the lamps. Time will tell if Kohl's is
a better tenant. I doubt they could be as shabby.


David

Lobby Dosser wrote:
otforme (Charlie Self) wrote:


The stores are dirty, low ceilinged, stocked poorly and haphazardly,
and the personnel might be desirable in an "ignore the asshole, he's
only a customer" contest, but otherwise, I guess Kmart is OK.



You forgot to mention the smell of stale popcorn and rancid hot dogs.

Swingman wrote:

"Charlie Self" wrote in message


Supposed to come in as #3 behind Walmart and Target.


With their 50 cent a day labor force, the Chinese oughta love the increased
efficiency for 'dumping' opportunities. Just where the hell is that "vast
market for American goods" that Clinton was gushing about?

Must be overseas or someplace outsode our borders as it sure doesn't
exist here.
John

On Wed, 17 Nov 2004 20:33:29 GMT, "Frank Ketchum"
wrote:


"mac davis" wrote in message
.. .

So, are they figuring that if you put 2 outdated losers together,
they'll become a winner?????


I think that was the same idea behind the Kerry/Edwards ticket.

*choke*
thanks, frank.. I hear that coffee is good for a keyboard once in a
while..

On Wed, 17 Nov 2004 20:19:46 GMT, "Bob Schmall"
wrote:


"Lobby Dosser" wrote in message
news:NoNmd.6890$m36.3631@trnddc02...
otforme (Charlie Self) wrote:

The stores are dirty, low ceilinged, stocked poorly and haphazardly,
and the personnel might be desirable in an "ignore the asshole, he's
only a customer" contest, but otherwise, I guess Kmart is OK.


You forgot to mention the smell of stale popcorn and rancid hot dogs.

Aaahh...the memories...

blue light specials?

On Wed, 17 Nov 2004 18:39:58 -0700, John DeBoo
wrote:

Swingman wrote:

"Charlie Self" wrote in message


Supposed to come in as #3 behind Walmart and Target.


With their 50 cent a day labor force, the Chinese oughta love the increased
efficiency for 'dumping' opportunities. Just where the hell is that "vast
market for American goods" that Clinton was gushing about?

Must be overseas or someplace outsode our borders as it sure doesn't
exist here.
John

another of Clinton's half-vast ideas???

Obviously, someone there sees some brilliance in the idea, but IIRC, Kmart
came
close to going all the way down the tubes a couple years ago, while Sears'
performance hasn't been stellar in recent years (going back to when the hired
the Bloomingdale type as Prez, I think).

My problem with the concept is that I've done some low end shopping at Kmart
(usually to get Coke when it's on sale there and not elsewhere).

The stores are dirty, low ceilinged, stocked poorly and haphazardly, and the
personnel might be desirable in an "ignore the asshole, he's only a customer"
contest, but otherwise, I guess Kmart is OK.

Sears retail stores seem to be understaffed, but the staff I've seen have all
been at least halfway decently trained, are polite and have at least a small
clue as to why they're there.

Hell, my mother was an inveterate bargain shopper--raised during the Great
Depression and had a solid talent for making a dime do a dollar's worth of
buying--but she avoided Kmart (and Caldor in upstate NY). And she died a
dozen
years ago, after being away from Kmarts for nearly a decade, so the decline I
see in them is no recent thing.

But maybe it will work out. Nice to think so. I think I still prefer the
Sears
of my youth, with no bricks & mortar stores to amount to anything.


Charlie Self

Everything I have read seems to say this was mostly a real estate deal as both
KMart and Sears are owners of vast amounts of prime retail real estate
purchased many years ago and either fully depreciated or at low historical cost
value on their books. The stock prices did not reflect market value of all of
these holdings. The guy that bought KMart out of bankruptcy essentially just
bought Sears (merger? yeah, right). I expect to see some significant real
estate transactions from the combined operation.

Dave Hall

I don't follow it either. Kmart just underwent a major restructuring last
year (or so). I think they declared bankruptcy and issued new stock. In
the meantime, they have been struggling with cash flow and have been selling
off a lot of their buildings and properties to keep the company afloat. I
don't see why Sears would want to hitch it's wagon to Kmart.

Frank

KMart bought Sears. There was no "merger" to it. The guy that bought KMart out
of bankruptcy has made a fortune on the deal. KMart was and still is real
estate rich, Sears was and still is real estate rich. In KMart's case that real
estate was not liquid enough to allow it to have an adequate cash flow so it
was forced into bankruptcy due to a negitive short term liqiudity situation
(all the while sitting on vast amounts of highly valuable heavily depreciated
real estate). The new owner has just begun to cash in on that real estate but
had still amassed enough cash to take over Sears. Expect to see a lot of Sears
real estate on the market (remember all the little Sears stores and Sears
Hardware stores not to mention the NTBs and other Sears owned non-Sears named
stores, many of which have closed in the last few years - lots of real estate).
Just because WE think of KMart and Sears as retail store operations, the folks
who buy bankrupt companies or troubled companies don't always do so for the
continuing operations. Sometimes the parts are worth far more than the whole.

Dave Hall

On 17 Nov 2004 13:18:05 GMT, otforme (Charlie Self)
wrote:

Sufferin' succotash. Just read that Sears and Kmart will merge, an 11 billion
buck deal, with the Kmart head leading the Sears Holding Co. that will emerge,
and the Sears CEO being CEO of the group.

I can see the benefit to Kmart. I cannot see the benefit to Sears.

Oh, yeah. Headquarters to remain at Sears headquarters, with a "significant
presence" at Kmart headquarters.

Predicted to be a $55 billion company, but I've seen claims for larger than
life companies before, including one I recently worked for that claimed $100
million, when balance sheets showed it was about $38-$45 million back then.

Supposed to come in as #3 behind Walmart and Target.


What really sucks is looking at Kmart's stock price. It started around
$15 when they emerged from bankruptcy -- I looked at it and thought, "yeah,
right, that'll last" They marched through $25, then up to $50, sometimes
jumping $2 to $3 or more a day. They closed at $109 today, up $7.78 for
the day.

Congratulations to those who were adventurous enough to jump in.

"Mike Hide" wrote in
news:93Jmd.518461$mD.447496@attbi_s02:

Check out tele comms....mjh


Check out the North American and European telecomm companies losing their
backsides on trying to make any money in China. Then look to see where the
new business is going. That China would seek to develop their own industry
is not surprising. That the rest of the world thought that they could make
significant money there first is truly amazing.

The rules are different there. Not worse. Not better. Different.
Significantly, culturally different. PDAMHIKT.

Now back to your original thread...

Patriarch

On Wed, 17 Nov 2004 20:47:04 GMT, Ba r r y
calmly ranted:

On 17 Nov 2004 13:18:05 GMT, otforme (Charlie Self)
wrote:

Supposed to come in as #3 behind Walmart and Target.

Pretty soon it'll all be one company.

Nope. Walmart is far too savvy to gulp KSearz-Mart.
They'll just watch it founder and die the slow, painful
humiliating death it deserves.


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* meaning * Save your Heirloom Photos
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KMart bought Sears. There was no "merger" to it. The guy that bought KMart
out
of bankruptcy has made a fortune on the deal. KMart was and still is real
estate rich, Sears was and still is real estate rich. In KMart's case that
real
estate was not liquid enough to allow it to have an adequate cash flow so it
was forced into bankruptcy due to a negitive short term liqiudity situation
(all the while sitting on vast amounts of highly valuable heavily
depreciated
real estate). The new owner has just begun to cash in on that real estate
but
had still amassed enough cash to take over Sears. Expect to see a lot of
Sears
real estate on the market (remember all the little Sears stores and Sears
Hardware stores not to mention the NTBs and other Sears owned non-Sears
named
stores, many of which have closed in the last few years - lots of real
estate).

One of the things that helped K-Mart emerge from bankruptcy was that they
raised over a half billion dollars selling a good sized chunk of their real
estate (about 60 stores) to Sears.

Lee

--
To e-mail, replace "bucketofspam" with "dleegordon"

Charlie ...

Supposed to come in as #3 behind Walmart and Target.

This will make them bigger than Target. The number 2 retailer is Home
Depot.

Lee


--
To e-mail, replace "bucketofspam" with "dleegordon"

On Wed, 17 Nov 2004 21:18:46 -0800, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Wed, 17 Nov 2004 20:47:04 GMT, Ba r r y
calmly ranted:

On 17 Nov 2004 13:18:05 GMT, otforme (Charlie Self)
wrote:

Supposed to come in as #3 behind Walmart and Target.

Pretty soon it'll all be one company.

Nope. Walmart is far too savvy to gulp KSearz-Mart.
They'll just watch it founder and die the slow, painful
humiliating death it deserves.

Which leaves us with one company. Tar-Mart.

Barry

"Lee Gordon" wrote in message
...
Charlie ...

Supposed to come in as #3 behind Walmart and Target.

This will make them bigger than Target. The number 2 retailer is Home
Depot.

Lee

Not according to every news report I've heard.

todd

The "Depot" family is pretty big, but it's an orange and Target's an apple.

"Todd Fatheree" wrote in message
...
"Lee Gordon" wrote in message
...
Charlie ...

Supposed to come in as #3 behind Walmart and Target.

This will make them bigger than Target. The number 2 retailer is Home
Depot.

Lee

Not according to every news report I've heard.

todd

I'm really surprised anyone in this forum gives a rats ass if KMart &
Sears merged or not given most people constant riddicule of Sears tools
and the probability they won't shop for tools at KMart for tools either.
Being that neither chain carries the tools that are so commonly
mentioned here I'm surprised the curmudgeons care.
John

Charlie Self wrote:

Sufferin' succotash. Just read that Sears and Kmart will merge, an 11 billion
buck deal, with the Kmart head leading the Sears Holding Co. that will emerge,
and the Sears CEO being CEO of the group.

Lee Gordon notes:


Supposed to come in as #3 behind Walmart and Target.

This will make them bigger than Target. The number 2 retailer is Home
Depot.

What the hell. I quoted the story. The writer may have meant general lines
retailer. Who knows?

Charlie Self
"Health nuts are going to feel stupid someday, lying in hospitals dying of
nothing."
Redd Foxx

On Wed, 17 Nov 2004 18:00:18 GMT, "patrick conroy"
wrote:


"Charlie Self" wrote in message
...

Oh, yeah. Headquarters to remain at Sears headquarters, with a
"significant
presence" at Kmart headquarters.

I heard this am - that the new 10 member board is 7 Kmart'ers and 3
Sears'ers. That caught me off-guard and made me wonder who's eating who
(whom?)?


Read the cover story of this week's (Nov 22 edition) Business
Week. It was written before this sale, but it will give you a pretty
good understanding of what it is about.

"Lee Gordon" wrote in message ...
Charlie ...

Supposed to come in as #3 behind Walmart and Target.

This will make them bigger than Target. The number 2 retailer is Home
Depot.

Lee

How come nobody is wondering how soon the layoffs will hit and how
many will be axed? Every time a bank pulls off one of these deals
they always announce the
expected "efficiency" savings by reductions in force. I suppose the
efficiencies will come when they close one store or the other when
both are within 10 miles of each other. That should give them great
coverage compared to the competition ;-}

We have a KMart within three miles and a Sears equally close. Both
stores are truly well run, with high traffic and generally good
quality merchandise. Should be interesting to watch the drama unfold,
although I would hate to be a career employee watching from either
camp ...

"Chuck Hoffman" writes:

Bottom line (for me anyhow): I don't buy tools or hardware at KMart. I
probably will stop shopping Sears for similar merchandise.

So, where will you buy tools that are American Made if you don't buy from
Sears?

The only option I can think of right now is Allen tools at the local Fleet
Farm. Lowes and Home Depot are both sourcing sockets and wrenches
overseas now. Home Depot quit selling anything but sets anyhow.

Maybe some of the chiwainese stuff is good these days, but some tools I
boght a long time ago were junk. The plating chipped off if you looked at
the tools, let alone used them.

Brian Elfert

On Thu, 18 Nov 2004 11:24:01 GMT, Ba r r y
calmly ranted:

Pretty soon it'll all be one company.

Nope. Walmart is far too savvy to gulp KSearz-Mart.
They'll just watch it founder and die the slow, painful
humiliating death it deserves.

Which leaves us with one company. Tar-Mart.

As long as they don't start stocking bulk feathers we should
be OK.


--
Strong like ox, smart like tractor.
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