I've recently been offered my first chance to do a commisioned piece,
up until now I've only done woodworking as gifts for family and
friends. She is a friend of my sister's that saw the jewelry box I
did for her last year and she wants one to give as a gift. I gave a
tentative yes and said we could talk about the design over the next
couple of weeks while I finish up my current projects.

The thing is she doesn't seem to have any idea what she wants. With
family/friends it's easy enough to come up with ideas for what they
would like. I know them. I've been in their homes. I've seen their
stuff. And I don't have to go through a process of communicating with
them, I just make it and they either like it or not. Here I am twice
removed from the person who is actually going to get the piece, which
I find a little disconcerting. I'm lacking enough input to get the
creative juices flowing. All I've gotten is "she loves work made by
New England artisans." Right, could you vague that up for me a
little?

It's also more difficult because she is on the other side of the
country and our primary communication is by email. I do not have a
large volume of work that I can show her, I've only done the one
jewelry box, and only recently have I had a digital camera with which
to take pictures. I suggested to her to have a look online to try to
find something she likes, and suggested one site that I had looked at
when I made the first one. That was over a week ago and she hasn't
gotten back to me yet.

I am not really sure what are the right questions to ask to get at
what they want. I tried to just keep it general for starters so as
not to bog her down with functional details, but maybe I should be
doing it the opposite way?


-Leuf

"Leuf" wrote in message

I am not really sure what are the right questions to ask to get at
what they want. I tried to just keep it general for starters so as
not to bog her down with functional details, but maybe I should be
doing it the opposite way?

Along with a deposit that covers the cost of materials, ask for some
pictures of what styles she likes ... as they say, a picture is worth a
thousand "you know"'s.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/04/04

Leuf,

I believe you have answered your own question - you just weren't listening
when you said it....

I doubt she will be able to give you any definite direction on design except
to maybe suggest that it be a box (like a letter box), a small chest
(silverware, keepsake) or perhaps something like a small writing desk that
you use when resting in bed etc. I think Norm did a replica of the writing
desk a couple of years back and it should be available on the New Yankee web
site. I believe JT also posted a url for one that this year which can be
found using a Google search.

The big clue is "She loves work made by New England artisans." That being
said, be sure you sign the piece and perhaps include a small card that
describes the type of wood used and where it was made - that is what she's
looking for too. How many times have you been in a crafts shop or at a fair
and everyone picks up the item, flips it over and reads the makers mark and
where it was made.

For New England inspiration - well, there's about zillion craft shops in
that area but you could also checkout www.LLBean.com for the New England
look. They have a gift section that may have an item or two or a design idea
you could implement. If you do inlay work, pick a scene that depicts a
recognized icon - such as a fishing boat, lobster, etc... A search on "New
England crafts" should fill a screen or two...

I've seen coffee and end tables fashioned after lobster traps, wooden net
floats made into lamps, pictures - made out of wood slats from old lobster
traps, flotsam of all sorts made into art objects with a bit of imagination.
And if all else fails - build a small version of a lobster trap, place a
glass float in it nested in some wadded up well-used netting...

I think anything you make that hints that it's from the northeast will make
a big hit. Besides, what do those folks on the left coast know anyway....;-)

Bob S.



"Leuf" wrote in message
...
I've recently been offered my first chance to do a commisioned piece,
up until now I've only done woodworking as gifts for family and
friends. She is a friend of my sister's that saw the jewelry box I
did for her last year and she wants one to give as a gift. I gave a
tentative yes and said we could talk about the design over the next
couple of weeks while I finish up my current projects.

The thing is she doesn't seem to have any idea what she wants. With
family/friends it's easy enough to come up with ideas for what they
would like. I know them. I've been in their homes. I've seen their
stuff. And I don't have to go through a process of communicating with
them, I just make it and they either like it or not. Here I am twice
removed from the person who is actually going to get the piece, which
I find a little disconcerting. I'm lacking enough input to get the
creative juices flowing. All I've gotten is "she loves work made by
New England artisans." Right, could you vague that up for me a
little?

It's also more difficult because she is on the other side of the
country and our primary communication is by email. I do not have a
large volume of work that I can show her, I've only done the one
jewelry box, and only recently have I had a digital camera with which
to take pictures. I suggested to her to have a look online to try to
find something she likes, and suggested one site that I had looked at
when I made the first one. That was over a week ago and she hasn't
gotten back to me yet.

I am not really sure what are the right questions to ask to get at
what they want. I tried to just keep it general for starters so as
not to bog her down with functional details, but maybe I should be
doing it the opposite way?


-Leuf

"Leuf" wrote in message

All I've gotten is "she loves work made by
New England artisans." Right, could you vague that up for me a
little?


Then send her a jug of maple syrup and be done with it.

New England tends to be the so called "early American" or "colonial" styles.
Simple lines like Shaker stuff, but I don't know that Shakers had lots of
jewelry. I'd check out the magazines and send a photo to get some sort of
approval before cutting wood. Or at least make something you'd like for
yourself.

Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
"Leuf" wrote in message

All I've gotten is "she loves work made by
New England artisans." Right, could you vague that up for me a
little?


Then send her a jug of maple syrup and be done with it.

New England tends to be the so called "early American" or "colonial"
styles. Simple lines like Shaker stuff, but I don't know that
Shakers had lots of jewelry. I'd check out the magazines and send a
photo to get some sort of approval before cutting wood. Or at least
make something you'd like for yourself.

I'd stick to having the client bring pictures to me. What if you send her
a photo and she simply asks for more photos? Or send her titles and
authors of 3-5 books with photos of jewelry boxes or Shaker furniture. (See
what's on hand at the library or local book store first.) You might miss
out on this paying client but you won't have wasted all this pre-Christmas
time. In a way suggesting those books implies that you can make most of
what's shown and you might end up making more than a jewelry box.

Josie

On Mon, 01 Nov 2004 07:10:33 GMT, Leuf
wrote:

|I've recently been offered my first chance to do a commisioned piece,
|up until now I've only done woodworking as gifts for family and
|friends. She is a friend of my sister's that saw the jewelry box I
|did for her last year and she wants one to give as a gift. I gave a
|tentative yes and said we could talk about the design over the next
|couple of weeks while I finish up my current projects.
|
|The thing is she doesn't seem to have any idea what she wants. With
|family/friends it's easy enough to come up with ideas for what they
|would like. I know them. I've been in their homes. I've seen their
|stuff. And I don't have to go through a process of communicating with
|them, I just make it and they either like it or not. Here I am twice
|removed from the person who is actually going to get the piece, which
|I find a little disconcerting. I'm lacking enough input to get the
|creative juices flowing. All I've gotten is "she loves work made by
|New England artisans." Right, could you vague that up for me a
|little?

She's seen the one you made for your sister and liked it. She's
giving it as a gift, so you'll never know what the recipient likes.
Clone the first one with just enough differences to make it "unique"
and be done with it.

As someone else said, sign the piece and include a card that says
"Handcrafted especially for XX."

Leuf wrote:
serious snippage:
The thing is she doesn't seem to have any idea what she wants.
All I've gotten is "she loves work made by
New England artisans."
It's also more difficult because she is on the other side of the
country and our primary communication is by email.
I suggested to her to have a look online to try to
find something she likes, and suggested one site that I had looked at
when I made the first one. That was over a week ago and she hasn't
gotten back to me yet.
maybe I should be
doing it the opposite way?

This is a no-win situation. If she doesn't know what she wants
and can't be bothered to look around and show you, she can't be
pleased. What you should "do the opposite way" is run. This is
exactly why I don't do turning for people. I let them choose if
they happen to be looking at a bunch of my stuff or I just give
them one. You CAN'T please a person who doesn't know what they
want.

Dave in Fairfax
--
Dave Leader
reply-to doesn't work
use:
daveldr at att dot net
American Association of Woodturners
http://www.woodturner.org
Capital Area Woodturners
http://www.capwoodturners.org/
PATINA
http://www.Patinatools.org/

Mon, Nov 1, 2004, 7:10am (EST+5) (Leuf)
snip She is a friend of my sister's that saw the jewelry box I did for
her last year and she wants one to give as a gift. =A0 I gave a
tentative yes and said we could talk about the design snip

So? How do you come up with a problem? She apparently saw the one
you did for your sister. Right? She said she wants one. Right. No
prob, should a said you'd make her one like you did for your sister.
After all, that's what she asked for. Right? Apparently you're the one
that brought up the question of design, you shoulda stopped talking
while you were ahead.

So, just ask her if she just wants one like you did for your sister.
Simple. If that's what she wants, no prob. If she wants it different,
then it's up to you fo find out what. That means asking her. You
shoulda stopped while you were ahead.



JOAT
When you choose an action, you choose the consequences.
- Unknown

Your customer is the gift giver who is paying you, not the recipient.
While its always nice for the ultimate recipient to appreciate your
work, there is always the chance they will hate whatever you do and
throw it into a closet and never use it. For example, how many gifts
have you given where the person has come back and said this is a POS
and not to my taste? Not many, they either like it or put it in the
closet or give it as a gift to someone else. So please the giver,
make her a box similar (or better) to the one she has seen and she'll
be very happy I am sure. Send her a drawing of what you want to make,
get her okey-dokey and then do it.


Mutt

Leuf wrote in message . ..
I've recently been offered my first chance to do a commisioned piece,
up until now I've only done woodworking as gifts for family and
friends. She is a friend of my sister's that saw the jewelry box I
did for her last year and she wants one to give as a gift. I gave a
tentative yes and said we could talk about the design over the next
couple of weeks while I finish up my current projects.

The thing is she doesn't seem to have any idea what she wants. With
family/friends it's easy enough to come up with ideas for what they
would like. I know them. I've been in their homes. I've seen their
stuff. And I don't have to go through a process of communicating with
them, I just make it and they either like it or not. Here I am twice
removed from the person who is actually going to get the piece, which
I find a little disconcerting. I'm lacking enough input to get the
creative juices flowing. All I've gotten is "she loves work made by
New England artisans." Right, could you vague that up for me a
little?

It's also more difficult because she is on the other side of the
country and our primary communication is by email. I do not have a
large volume of work that I can show her, I've only done the one
jewelry box, and only recently have I had a digital camera with which
to take pictures. I suggested to her to have a look online to try to
find something she likes, and suggested one site that I had looked at
when I made the first one. That was over a week ago and she hasn't
gotten back to me yet.

I am not really sure what are the right questions to ask to get at
what they want. I tried to just keep it general for starters so as
not to bog her down with functional details, but maybe I should be
doing it the opposite way?


-Leuf

I'd say, send two or three pictures of different types of things that
you could do and let her tell you what she likes or doesn't like about
the various pieces.

Leuf wrote in message . ..
I've recently been offered my first chance to do a commisioned piece,
up until now I've only done woodworking as gifts for family and
friends. She is a friend of my sister's that saw the jewelry box I
did for her last year and she wants one to give as a gift. I gave a
tentative yes and said we could talk about the design over the next
couple of weeks while I finish up my current projects.

The thing is she doesn't seem to have any idea what she wants. With
family/friends it's easy enough to come up with ideas for what they
would like. I know them. I've been in their homes. I've seen their
stuff. And I don't have to go through a process of communicating with
them, I just make it and they either like it or not. Here I am twice
removed from the person who is actually going to get the piece, which
I find a little disconcerting. I'm lacking enough input to get the
creative juices flowing. All I've gotten is "she loves work made by
New England artisans." Right, could you vague that up for me a
little?

It's also more difficult because she is on the other side of the
country and our primary communication is by email. I do not have a
large volume of work that I can show her, I've only done the one
jewelry box, and only recently have I had a digital camera with which
to take pictures. I suggested to her to have a look online to try to
find something she likes, and suggested one site that I had looked at
when I made the first one. That was over a week ago and she hasn't
gotten back to me yet.

I am not really sure what are the right questions to ask to get at
what they want. I tried to just keep it general for starters so as
not to bog her down with functional details, but maybe I should be
doing it the opposite way?


-Leuf

In article , Leuf
wrote:


The thing is she doesn't seem to have any idea what she wants. With

If its like software development, she'll know what she wants *after* you
have produced a product for her. And it won't be what you produced. :-)

--

"Nobody" wrote in message

The thing is she doesn't seem to have any idea what she wants. With

If its like software development, she'll know what she wants *after* you
have produced a product for her. And it won't be what you produced. :-)

It will if you keep her updated though a website/e-mail.

Besides a deposit, which protects me, at least for the materials, I also
post pictures to a private URL as each stage progresses, which protects both
of us in that there is no shock-of-the-unexpected when seeing the finished
piece for the first time.

I don't do that much custom work, but what little I do, the folks seem to
absolutely love the ability to watch the metamorphosis from a pile of
lumber, to the end result. A big bang for a little buck, guaranteed.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/04/04

On Mon, 01 Nov 2004 13:49:24 GMT, "BobS" wrote:


I think anything you make that hints that it's from the northeast will make
a big hit. Besides, what do those folks on the left coast know anyway....;-)

Well I'm actually from New England, so by definition anything I make
she has to like


-Leuf

On Mon, 01 Nov 2004 13:49:24 GMT, "BobS" wrote:

Leuf,

I believe you have answered your own question - you just weren't listening
when you said it....

....
... She is a friend of my sister's that saw the jewelry box I
did for her last year and she wants one to give as a gift. ...

Bob's advice is right on - she liked a jewelry box you've already
made.

Just tell her that you would be happy to make her a similar box and
the result will be a function of available materials and inspiration.
If she truly liked what you did then she should trust you to make
something that she would like. If she can accept these terms then
your job will be much more satisfying - if she can't do you really
want to do it?


TWS
http://tomstudwell.com/allprojects.htm

On Mon, 01 Nov 2004 16:44:04 GMT, Dave in Fairfax
wrote:

Leuf wrote:
serious snippage:
The thing is she doesn't seem to have any idea what she wants.
All I've gotten is "she loves work made by
New England artisans."
It's also more difficult because she is on the other side of the
country and our primary communication is by email.
I suggested to her to have a look online to try to
find something she likes, and suggested one site that I had looked at
when I made the first one. That was over a week ago and she hasn't
gotten back to me yet.
maybe I should be
doing it the opposite way?

This is a no-win situation. If she doesn't know what she wants
and can't be bothered to look around and show you, she can't be
pleased. What you should "do the opposite way" is run. This is
exactly why I don't do turning for people. I let them choose if
they happen to be looking at a bunch of my stuff or I just give
them one. You CAN'T please a person who doesn't know what they
want.

Dave in Fairfax

But this would be a great opportunity for HIM to learn how to deal
with these kinds of people.

I don't think he should pass up the opportunity.


Have a nice one...

Trent

Budweiser: Helping ugly people have sex since 1876!

On Mon, 01 Nov 2004 07:10:33 GMT, Leuf
wrote:

I've recently been offered my first chance to do a commisioned piece,
up until now I've only done woodworking as gifts for family and
friends. She is a friend of my sister's that saw the jewelry box I
did for her last year and she wants one to give as a gift. I gave a
tentative yes and said we could talk about the design over the next
couple of weeks while I finish up my current projects.

The thing is she doesn't seem to have any idea what she wants.

Sure she does. She has a VAGUE idea. She wants something like the
one you did for your sister. Use that as a starting point.

With
family/friends it's easy enough to come up with ideas for what they
would like. I know them. I've been in their homes. I've seen their
stuff. And I don't have to go through a process of communicating with
them, I just make it and they either like it or not. Here I am twice
removed from the person who is actually going to get the piece, which
I find a little disconcerting. I'm lacking enough input to get the
creative juices flowing. All I've gotten is "she loves work made by
New England artisans." Right, could you vague that up for me a
little?

Which artisans? Where did she find the things that she 'likes'? Just
like you've done with your family over the years, you need to find out
more about her likes and dislikes...her decor...etc.

It's also more difficult because she is on the other side of the
country and our primary communication is by email.

Call her.

I do not have a
large volume of work that I can show her, I've only done the one
jewelry box, and only recently have I had a digital camera with which
to take pictures. I suggested to her to have a look online to try to
find something she likes, and suggested one site that I had looked at
when I made the first one. That was over a week ago and she hasn't
gotten back to me yet.

Bad idea...IMHO. And it doesn't sound like its working, either.

YOU pick something...YOU push...YOU design...YOU set deadlines, etc.
She obviously doesn't wanna be bothered. Most customers don't.

I'm just guessing here...but I don't think whatever you make for her
will be as important as the fact that she had it ESPECIALLY made by
you for whomever she gives it to. It'll be a SPECIAL gift...made
especially for her friend...as opposed to something she could simply
have bought over the shelf.

If she already has the recipient in mind, suggest that you sign it to
include the recipient's name.

I am not really sure what are the right questions to ask to get at
what they want. I tried to just keep it general for starters so as
not to bog her down with functional details, but maybe I should be
doing it the opposite way?

You need to take the initiative, Leuf. She is definitely more inept
at this than you are. She's looking to you for direction. DON'T ask
her to make too many choices. YOU put the project together...the
ENTIRE project...and then get her final approval.

I wouldn't worry about getting any money up front, if I were you.
Just build it...and let her know approximately what it will cost. If
you get stiffed for the materials, it shouldn't be the end of the
world for you.

And this whole thing will be a great experience for you...especially
if you plan on future endeavors like this.

Good luck. Let us know how it goes.

P.S. If things go well, get some business cards made. Later, ask her
if you can use her as a reference.


Have a nice one...

Trent

Budweiser: Helping ugly people have sex since 1876!

"Trent©" wrote in message

But this would be a great opportunity for HIM to learn how to deal
with these kinds of people.

I don't think he should pass up the opportunity.

Good point. Deal with one or two nut cases and you learn how to handle them
in the future.

Keep in mind, the smaller the job, the more the customer will bug you,
change things, or generally be a PITA.

I was making things more complicated than they needed to be. It took
less than an hour to come up with a rough sketch based on the first
one I did, scaled down with a different top and using the materials I
have on hand. I sent it along with a photo of the woods this
afternoon and have already gotten an enthusiastic go ahead from her.

http://mysite.verizon.net/vze3kkvm/proposal.html

I was thinking about putting together a little photo album of pictures
taken along the way with my contact info at the end to send along with
it. I can send a few to the client to keep her updated, and then
perhaps the album will bring another job.


-Leuf

Tue, Nov 2, 2004, 5:30am (EST+5) (Leuf)
I was making things more complicated than they needed to be. snip

Told ya so. Most people do.



JOAT
When you choose an action, you choose the consequences.
- Unknown

Nice.... the leaves make it "New England" in the fall.

Bob S.


"Leuf" wrote in message
...
I was making things more complicated than they needed to be. It took
less than an hour to come up with a rough sketch based on the first
one I did, scaled down with a different top and using the materials I
have on hand. I sent it along with a photo of the woods this
afternoon and have already gotten an enthusiastic go ahead from her.

http://mysite.verizon.net/vze3kkvm/proposal.html

I was thinking about putting together a little photo album of pictures
taken along the way with my contact info at the end to send along with
it. I can send a few to the client to keep her updated, and then
perhaps the album will bring another job.


-Leuf

"Leuf" wrote in message
...
I was making things more complicated than they needed to be. It took
less than an hour to come up with a rough sketch based on the first
one I did, scaled down with a different top and using the materials I
have on hand. I sent it along with a photo of the woods this
afternoon and have already gotten an enthusiastic go ahead from her.

http://mysite.verizon.net/vze3kkvm/proposal.html

I was thinking about putting together a little photo album of pictures
taken along the way with my contact info at the end to send along with
it. I can send a few to the client to keep her updated, and then
perhaps the album will bring another job.


-Leuf

get her to sign a printout of your pattern and mail it to you with her
deposit check. also let her know that any design changes after you start
production will cost her something. this is what i have to do when designing
and producing stained glass projects. otherwise the customer keeps coming up
with changes in pattern or color, and you're trying to hit a moving target.

On 1 Nov 2004 11:11:50 -0800, (Mutt) wrote:

what's worse is making something, giving it as a gift, then getting it
back as a gift later because they forgot that you gave it to them...
painful!!

Your customer is the gift giver who is paying you, not the recipient.
While its always nice for the ultimate recipient to appreciate your
work, there is always the chance they will hate whatever you do and
throw it into a closet and never use it. For example, how many gifts
have you given where the person has come back and said this is a POS
and not to my taste? Not many, they either like it or put it in the
closet or give it as a gift to someone else. So please the giver,
make her a box similar (or better) to the one she has seen and she'll
be very happy I am sure. Send her a drawing of what you want to make,
get her okey-dokey and then do it.


Mutt

Leuf wrote in message . ..
I've recently been offered my first chance to do a commisioned piece,
up until now I've only done woodworking as gifts for family and
friends. She is a friend of my sister's that saw the jewelry box I
did for her last year and she wants one to give as a gift. I gave a
tentative yes and said we could talk about the design over the next
couple of weeks while I finish up my current projects.

The thing is she doesn't seem to have any idea what she wants. With
family/friends it's easy enough to come up with ideas for what they
would like. I know them. I've been in their homes. I've seen their
stuff. And I don't have to go through a process of communicating with
them, I just make it and they either like it or not. Here I am twice
removed from the person who is actually going to get the piece, which
I find a little disconcerting. I'm lacking enough input to get the
creative juices flowing. All I've gotten is "she loves work made by
New England artisans." Right, could you vague that up for me a
little?

It's also more difficult because she is on the other side of the
country and our primary communication is by email. I do not have a
large volume of work that I can show her, I've only done the one
jewelry box, and only recently have I had a digital camera with which
to take pictures. I suggested to her to have a look online to try to
find something she likes, and suggested one site that I had looked at
when I made the first one. That was over a week ago and she hasn't
gotten back to me yet.

I am not really sure what are the right questions to ask to get at
what they want. I tried to just keep it general for starters so as
not to bog her down with functional details, but maybe I should be
doing it the opposite way?


-Leuf

On Tue, 02 Nov 2004 00:43:43 GMT, TWS wrote:

On Mon, 01 Nov 2004 13:49:24 GMT, "BobS" wrote:

Leuf,

I believe you have answered your own question - you just weren't listening
when you said it....

...
... She is a friend of my sister's that saw the jewelry box I
did for her last year and she wants one to give as a gift. ...

Bob's advice is right on - she liked a jewelry box you've already
made.

Just tell her that you would be happy to make her a similar box and
the result will be a function of available materials and inspiration.
If she truly liked what you did then she should trust you to make
something that she would like. If she can accept these terms then
your job will be much more satisfying - if she can't do you really
want to do it?


TWS
http://tomstudwell.com/allprojects.htm

Right on, Tom!
Took the words right out of my.. umm... keyboard...

It's been my experience that things are more valuable to people if
they're hand made and individual.. their personal 1-of-a-kind item to
keep or give..

On Tue, 02 Nov 2004 05:30:44 GMT, Leuf
wrote:

I was making things more complicated than they needed to be. It took
less than an hour to come up with a rough sketch based on the first
one I did, scaled down with a different top and using the materials I
have on hand. I sent it along with a photo of the woods this
afternoon and have already gotten an enthusiastic go ahead from her.

http://mysite.verizon.net/vze3kkvm/proposal.html

I was thinking about putting together a little photo album of pictures
taken along the way with my contact info at the end to send along with
it. I can send a few to the client to keep her updated, and then
perhaps the album will bring another job.


-Leuf

Good solution and good job...
You could have been more professional in your proposal, but IMHO,
informal is better if you want "artisan" prices, professional is great
for bulk or volume items..
Like most things in life, it's the selling as much as the quality that
makes people feel good about the decision to use you, and referrals
follow..

On Tue, 2 Nov 2004 01:59:37 -0500, (J T)
wrote:

Tue, Nov 2, 2004, 5:30am (EST+5) (Leuf)
I was making things more complicated than they needed to be. snip

Told ya so. Most people do.



JOAT
When you choose an action, you choose the consequences.
- Unknown

I try to use the old KISS method....
"Keep It Simple, Stupid!"

On Tue, 02 Nov 2004 16:17:54 GMT, mac davis
wrote:


Good solution and good job...
You could have been more professional in your proposal, but IMHO,
informal is better if you want "artisan" prices, professional is great
for bulk or volume items..

I agree that it could have been more professional, but I tried to do
it as if she were in the room as a sketch to further discussion, with
the intent to follow up with a more formal drawing. It doesn't appear
that will be necessary, though I think I will go through the process
just for my own sake.

Interesting comment about the process being different for "arty" work.
I'd just gone looking at some websites with jewelry boxes and stumbled
across this one site where I read, "Peruse my web-site, and see what
truly fine woodworking can be. (Woodworkers will likely learn a thing
or two.)" And on and on like that. If that's what being an "artisan"
leads to I think I'll aim for glorified carpenter instead. Though
actually the guy's prices were reasonable, go figure.

Like most things in life, it's the selling as much as the quality that
makes people feel good about the decision to use you, and referrals
follow..

I think it's a skill that needs to be developed along with your
technical skills. I guess it comes naturally to some people. My
parents are building a new house and in talking with the builder
within 2 minutes you know you want to work with the guy. I tried to
just pay attention to him and learn a few things.


-Leuf

I was always interested in what potential customers already had.

Most of them already have some design boundaries set up, even if they
don't know it.

Then I wanted to know where it would go. That can tell you a lot.

Then I wanted to know what it would be used for.

Then I wanted to know how much it should cost.

It was at this point that the conversation usually ended.




Regards,
Tom.

"People funny. Life a funny thing." Sonny Liston

Thomas J.Watson - Cabinetmaker (ret.)
tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet (real email)
http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1

On Tue, 02 Nov 2004 20:42:45 GMT, Leuf
wrote:

Leuf.. I think we're coming from the same direction, I just didn't
explain what I meant by artisan prices..
I was thinking more of how you want the client to perceive your work
than how you/we do... folks just pay more for something made by an
artist... and to someone like me or to a client, the skill level and
talent to make a good jewelry box (which I hope to develop) is an
art...
When you do or know something well, you tend to take it for granted...
like "doesn't everyone do this?"... but to folks that have never
ripped a board on a power saw, what you do is damn near magic... and
it helps your checkbook to let them believe that.. *g*


On Tue, 02 Nov 2004 16:17:54 GMT, mac davis
wrote:


Good solution and good job...
You could have been more professional in your proposal, but IMHO,
informal is better if you want "artisan" prices, professional is great
for bulk or volume items..

I agree that it could have been more professional, but I tried to do
it as if she were in the room as a sketch to further discussion, with
the intent to follow up with a more formal drawing. It doesn't appear
that will be necessary, though I think I will go through the process
just for my own sake.

Interesting comment about the process being different for "arty" work.
I'd just gone looking at some websites with jewelry boxes and stumbled
across this one site where I read, "Peruse my web-site, and see what
truly fine woodworking can be. (Woodworkers will likely learn a thing
or two.)" And on and on like that. If that's what being an "artisan"
leads to I think I'll aim for glorified carpenter instead. Though
actually the guy's prices were reasonable, go figure.

Like most things in life, it's the selling as much as the quality that
makes people feel good about the decision to use you, and referrals
follow..

I think it's a skill that needs to be developed along with your
technical skills. I guess it comes naturally to some people. My
parents are building a new house and in talking with the builder
within 2 minutes you know you want to work with the guy. I tried to
just pay attention to him and learn a few things.


-Leuf