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#1
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How do you go about finding out what a client really wants?
I've recently been offered my first chance to do a commisioned piece,
up until now I've only done woodworking as gifts for family and friends. She is a friend of my sister's that saw the jewelry box I did for her last year and she wants one to give as a gift. I gave a tentative yes and said we could talk about the design over the next couple of weeks while I finish up my current projects. The thing is she doesn't seem to have any idea what she wants. With family/friends it's easy enough to come up with ideas for what they would like. I know them. I've been in their homes. I've seen their stuff. And I don't have to go through a process of communicating with them, I just make it and they either like it or not. Here I am twice removed from the person who is actually going to get the piece, which I find a little disconcerting. I'm lacking enough input to get the creative juices flowing. All I've gotten is "she loves work made by New England artisans." Right, could you vague that up for me a little? It's also more difficult because she is on the other side of the country and our primary communication is by email. I do not have a large volume of work that I can show her, I've only done the one jewelry box, and only recently have I had a digital camera with which to take pictures. I suggested to her to have a look online to try to find something she likes, and suggested one site that I had looked at when I made the first one. That was over a week ago and she hasn't gotten back to me yet. I am not really sure what are the right questions to ask to get at what they want. I tried to just keep it general for starters so as not to bog her down with functional details, but maybe I should be doing it the opposite way? -Leuf |
#2
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"Leuf" wrote in message
I am not really sure what are the right questions to ask to get at what they want. I tried to just keep it general for starters so as not to bog her down with functional details, but maybe I should be doing it the opposite way? Along with a deposit that covers the cost of materials, ask for some pictures of what styles she likes ... as they say, a picture is worth a thousand "you know"'s. -- www.e-woodshop.net Last update: 10/04/04 |
#3
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Leuf,
I believe you have answered your own question - you just weren't listening when you said it.... I doubt she will be able to give you any definite direction on design except to maybe suggest that it be a box (like a letter box), a small chest (silverware, keepsake) or perhaps something like a small writing desk that you use when resting in bed etc. I think Norm did a replica of the writing desk a couple of years back and it should be available on the New Yankee web site. I believe JT also posted a url for one that this year which can be found using a Google search. The big clue is "She loves work made by New England artisans." That being said, be sure you sign the piece and perhaps include a small card that describes the type of wood used and where it was made - that is what she's looking for too. How many times have you been in a crafts shop or at a fair and everyone picks up the item, flips it over and reads the makers mark and where it was made. For New England inspiration - well, there's about zillion craft shops in that area but you could also checkout www.LLBean.com for the New England look. They have a gift section that may have an item or two or a design idea you could implement. If you do inlay work, pick a scene that depicts a recognized icon - such as a fishing boat, lobster, etc... A search on "New England crafts" should fill a screen or two... I've seen coffee and end tables fashioned after lobster traps, wooden net floats made into lamps, pictures - made out of wood slats from old lobster traps, flotsam of all sorts made into art objects with a bit of imagination. And if all else fails - build a small version of a lobster trap, place a glass float in it nested in some wadded up well-used netting... I think anything you make that hints that it's from the northeast will make a big hit. Besides, what do those folks on the left coast know anyway....;-) Bob S. "Leuf" wrote in message ... I've recently been offered my first chance to do a commisioned piece, up until now I've only done woodworking as gifts for family and friends. She is a friend of my sister's that saw the jewelry box I did for her last year and she wants one to give as a gift. I gave a tentative yes and said we could talk about the design over the next couple of weeks while I finish up my current projects. The thing is she doesn't seem to have any idea what she wants. With family/friends it's easy enough to come up with ideas for what they would like. I know them. I've been in their homes. I've seen their stuff. And I don't have to go through a process of communicating with them, I just make it and they either like it or not. Here I am twice removed from the person who is actually going to get the piece, which I find a little disconcerting. I'm lacking enough input to get the creative juices flowing. All I've gotten is "she loves work made by New England artisans." Right, could you vague that up for me a little? It's also more difficult because she is on the other side of the country and our primary communication is by email. I do not have a large volume of work that I can show her, I've only done the one jewelry box, and only recently have I had a digital camera with which to take pictures. I suggested to her to have a look online to try to find something she likes, and suggested one site that I had looked at when I made the first one. That was over a week ago and she hasn't gotten back to me yet. I am not really sure what are the right questions to ask to get at what they want. I tried to just keep it general for starters so as not to bog her down with functional details, but maybe I should be doing it the opposite way? -Leuf |
#4
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On Mon, 01 Nov 2004 13:49:24 GMT, "BobS" wrote:
I think anything you make that hints that it's from the northeast will make a big hit. Besides, what do those folks on the left coast know anyway....;-) Well I'm actually from New England, so by definition anything I make she has to like -Leuf |
#5
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On Mon, 01 Nov 2004 13:49:24 GMT, "BobS" wrote:
Leuf, I believe you have answered your own question - you just weren't listening when you said it.... .... ... She is a friend of my sister's that saw the jewelry box I did for her last year and she wants one to give as a gift. ... Bob's advice is right on - she liked a jewelry box you've already made. Just tell her that you would be happy to make her a similar box and the result will be a function of available materials and inspiration. If she truly liked what you did then she should trust you to make something that she would like. If she can accept these terms then your job will be much more satisfying - if she can't do you really want to do it? TWS http://tomstudwell.com/allprojects.htm |
#6
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On Tue, 02 Nov 2004 00:43:43 GMT, TWS wrote:
On Mon, 01 Nov 2004 13:49:24 GMT, "BobS" wrote: Leuf, I believe you have answered your own question - you just weren't listening when you said it.... ... ... She is a friend of my sister's that saw the jewelry box I did for her last year and she wants one to give as a gift. ... Bob's advice is right on - she liked a jewelry box you've already made. Just tell her that you would be happy to make her a similar box and the result will be a function of available materials and inspiration. If she truly liked what you did then she should trust you to make something that she would like. If she can accept these terms then your job will be much more satisfying - if she can't do you really want to do it? TWS http://tomstudwell.com/allprojects.htm Right on, Tom! Took the words right out of my.. umm... keyboard... It's been my experience that things are more valuable to people if they're hand made and individual.. their personal 1-of-a-kind item to keep or give.. |
#7
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"Leuf" wrote in message All I've gotten is "she loves work made by New England artisans." Right, could you vague that up for me a little? Then send her a jug of maple syrup and be done with it. New England tends to be the so called "early American" or "colonial" styles. Simple lines like Shaker stuff, but I don't know that Shakers had lots of jewelry. I'd check out the magazines and send a photo to get some sort of approval before cutting wood. Or at least make something you'd like for yourself. |
#8
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Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
"Leuf" wrote in message All I've gotten is "she loves work made by New England artisans." Right, could you vague that up for me a little? Then send her a jug of maple syrup and be done with it. New England tends to be the so called "early American" or "colonial" styles. Simple lines like Shaker stuff, but I don't know that Shakers had lots of jewelry. I'd check out the magazines and send a photo to get some sort of approval before cutting wood. Or at least make something you'd like for yourself. I'd stick to having the client bring pictures to me. What if you send her a photo and she simply asks for more photos? Or send her titles and authors of 3-5 books with photos of jewelry boxes or Shaker furniture. (See what's on hand at the library or local book store first.) You might miss out on this paying client but you won't have wasted all this pre-Christmas time. In a way suggesting those books implies that you can make most of what's shown and you might end up making more than a jewelry box. Josie |
#9
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On Mon, 01 Nov 2004 07:10:33 GMT, Leuf
wrote: |I've recently been offered my first chance to do a commisioned piece, |up until now I've only done woodworking as gifts for family and |friends. She is a friend of my sister's that saw the jewelry box I |did for her last year and she wants one to give as a gift. I gave a |tentative yes and said we could talk about the design over the next |couple of weeks while I finish up my current projects. | |The thing is she doesn't seem to have any idea what she wants. With |family/friends it's easy enough to come up with ideas for what they |would like. I know them. I've been in their homes. I've seen their |stuff. And I don't have to go through a process of communicating with |them, I just make it and they either like it or not. Here I am twice |removed from the person who is actually going to get the piece, which |I find a little disconcerting. I'm lacking enough input to get the |creative juices flowing. All I've gotten is "she loves work made by |New England artisans." Right, could you vague that up for me a |little? She's seen the one you made for your sister and liked it. She's giving it as a gift, so you'll never know what the recipient likes. Clone the first one with just enough differences to make it "unique" and be done with it. As someone else said, sign the piece and include a card that says "Handcrafted especially for XX." |
#10
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Leuf wrote:
serious snippage: The thing is she doesn't seem to have any idea what she wants. All I've gotten is "she loves work made by New England artisans." It's also more difficult because she is on the other side of the country and our primary communication is by email. I suggested to her to have a look online to try to find something she likes, and suggested one site that I had looked at when I made the first one. That was over a week ago and she hasn't gotten back to me yet. maybe I should be doing it the opposite way? This is a no-win situation. If she doesn't know what she wants and can't be bothered to look around and show you, she can't be pleased. What you should "do the opposite way" is run. This is exactly why I don't do turning for people. I let them choose if they happen to be looking at a bunch of my stuff or I just give them one. You CAN'T please a person who doesn't know what they want. Dave in Fairfax -- Dave Leader reply-to doesn't work use: daveldr at att dot net American Association of Woodturners http://www.woodturner.org Capital Area Woodturners http://www.capwoodturners.org/ PATINA http://www.Patinatools.org/ |
#11
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On Mon, 01 Nov 2004 16:44:04 GMT, Dave in Fairfax
wrote: Leuf wrote: serious snippage: The thing is she doesn't seem to have any idea what she wants. All I've gotten is "she loves work made by New England artisans." It's also more difficult because she is on the other side of the country and our primary communication is by email. I suggested to her to have a look online to try to find something she likes, and suggested one site that I had looked at when I made the first one. That was over a week ago and she hasn't gotten back to me yet. maybe I should be doing it the opposite way? This is a no-win situation. If she doesn't know what she wants and can't be bothered to look around and show you, she can't be pleased. What you should "do the opposite way" is run. This is exactly why I don't do turning for people. I let them choose if they happen to be looking at a bunch of my stuff or I just give them one. You CAN'T please a person who doesn't know what they want. Dave in Fairfax But this would be a great opportunity for HIM to learn how to deal with these kinds of people. I don't think he should pass up the opportunity. Have a nice one... Trent Budweiser: Helping ugly people have sex since 1876! |
#12
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"Trent©" wrote in message But this would be a great opportunity for HIM to learn how to deal with these kinds of people. I don't think he should pass up the opportunity. Good point. Deal with one or two nut cases and you learn how to handle them in the future. Keep in mind, the smaller the job, the more the customer will bug you, change things, or generally be a PITA. |
#13
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#14
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Your customer is the gift giver who is paying you, not the recipient.
While its always nice for the ultimate recipient to appreciate your work, there is always the chance they will hate whatever you do and throw it into a closet and never use it. For example, how many gifts have you given where the person has come back and said this is a POS and not to my taste? Not many, they either like it or put it in the closet or give it as a gift to someone else. So please the giver, make her a box similar (or better) to the one she has seen and she'll be very happy I am sure. Send her a drawing of what you want to make, get her okey-dokey and then do it. Mutt Leuf wrote in message . .. I've recently been offered my first chance to do a commisioned piece, up until now I've only done woodworking as gifts for family and friends. She is a friend of my sister's that saw the jewelry box I did for her last year and she wants one to give as a gift. I gave a tentative yes and said we could talk about the design over the next couple of weeks while I finish up my current projects. The thing is she doesn't seem to have any idea what she wants. With family/friends it's easy enough to come up with ideas for what they would like. I know them. I've been in their homes. I've seen their stuff. And I don't have to go through a process of communicating with them, I just make it and they either like it or not. Here I am twice removed from the person who is actually going to get the piece, which I find a little disconcerting. I'm lacking enough input to get the creative juices flowing. All I've gotten is "she loves work made by New England artisans." Right, could you vague that up for me a little? It's also more difficult because she is on the other side of the country and our primary communication is by email. I do not have a large volume of work that I can show her, I've only done the one jewelry box, and only recently have I had a digital camera with which to take pictures. I suggested to her to have a look online to try to find something she likes, and suggested one site that I had looked at when I made the first one. That was over a week ago and she hasn't gotten back to me yet. I am not really sure what are the right questions to ask to get at what they want. I tried to just keep it general for starters so as not to bog her down with functional details, but maybe I should be doing it the opposite way? -Leuf |
#16
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I'd say, send two or three pictures of different types of things that
you could do and let her tell you what she likes or doesn't like about the various pieces. Leuf wrote in message . .. I've recently been offered my first chance to do a commisioned piece, up until now I've only done woodworking as gifts for family and friends. She is a friend of my sister's that saw the jewelry box I did for her last year and she wants one to give as a gift. I gave a tentative yes and said we could talk about the design over the next couple of weeks while I finish up my current projects. The thing is she doesn't seem to have any idea what she wants. With family/friends it's easy enough to come up with ideas for what they would like. I know them. I've been in their homes. I've seen their stuff. And I don't have to go through a process of communicating with them, I just make it and they either like it or not. Here I am twice removed from the person who is actually going to get the piece, which I find a little disconcerting. I'm lacking enough input to get the creative juices flowing. All I've gotten is "she loves work made by New England artisans." Right, could you vague that up for me a little? It's also more difficult because she is on the other side of the country and our primary communication is by email. I do not have a large volume of work that I can show her, I've only done the one jewelry box, and only recently have I had a digital camera with which to take pictures. I suggested to her to have a look online to try to find something she likes, and suggested one site that I had looked at when I made the first one. That was over a week ago and she hasn't gotten back to me yet. I am not really sure what are the right questions to ask to get at what they want. I tried to just keep it general for starters so as not to bog her down with functional details, but maybe I should be doing it the opposite way? -Leuf |
#17
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In article , Leuf
wrote: The thing is she doesn't seem to have any idea what she wants. With If its like software development, she'll know what she wants *after* you have produced a product for her. And it won't be what you produced. :-) -- |
#18
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"Nobody" wrote in message The thing is she doesn't seem to have any idea what she wants. With If its like software development, she'll know what she wants *after* you have produced a product for her. And it won't be what you produced. :-) It will if you keep her updated though a website/e-mail. Besides a deposit, which protects me, at least for the materials, I also post pictures to a private URL as each stage progresses, which protects both of us in that there is no shock-of-the-unexpected when seeing the finished piece for the first time. I don't do that much custom work, but what little I do, the folks seem to absolutely love the ability to watch the metamorphosis from a pile of lumber, to the end result. A big bang for a little buck, guaranteed. -- www.e-woodshop.net Last update: 10/04/04 |
#19
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On Mon, 01 Nov 2004 07:10:33 GMT, Leuf
wrote: I've recently been offered my first chance to do a commisioned piece, up until now I've only done woodworking as gifts for family and friends. She is a friend of my sister's that saw the jewelry box I did for her last year and she wants one to give as a gift. I gave a tentative yes and said we could talk about the design over the next couple of weeks while I finish up my current projects. The thing is she doesn't seem to have any idea what she wants. Sure she does. She has a VAGUE idea. She wants something like the one you did for your sister. Use that as a starting point. With family/friends it's easy enough to come up with ideas for what they would like. I know them. I've been in their homes. I've seen their stuff. And I don't have to go through a process of communicating with them, I just make it and they either like it or not. Here I am twice removed from the person who is actually going to get the piece, which I find a little disconcerting. I'm lacking enough input to get the creative juices flowing. All I've gotten is "she loves work made by New England artisans." Right, could you vague that up for me a little? Which artisans? Where did she find the things that she 'likes'? Just like you've done with your family over the years, you need to find out more about her likes and dislikes...her decor...etc. It's also more difficult because she is on the other side of the country and our primary communication is by email. Call her. I do not have a large volume of work that I can show her, I've only done the one jewelry box, and only recently have I had a digital camera with which to take pictures. I suggested to her to have a look online to try to find something she likes, and suggested one site that I had looked at when I made the first one. That was over a week ago and she hasn't gotten back to me yet. Bad idea...IMHO. And it doesn't sound like its working, either. YOU pick something...YOU push...YOU design...YOU set deadlines, etc. She obviously doesn't wanna be bothered. Most customers don't. I'm just guessing here...but I don't think whatever you make for her will be as important as the fact that she had it ESPECIALLY made by you for whomever she gives it to. It'll be a SPECIAL gift...made especially for her friend...as opposed to something she could simply have bought over the shelf. If she already has the recipient in mind, suggest that you sign it to include the recipient's name. I am not really sure what are the right questions to ask to get at what they want. I tried to just keep it general for starters so as not to bog her down with functional details, but maybe I should be doing it the opposite way? You need to take the initiative, Leuf. She is definitely more inept at this than you are. She's looking to you for direction. DON'T ask her to make too many choices. YOU put the project together...the ENTIRE project...and then get her final approval. I wouldn't worry about getting any money up front, if I were you. Just build it...and let her know approximately what it will cost. If you get stiffed for the materials, it shouldn't be the end of the world for you. And this whole thing will be a great experience for you...especially if you plan on future endeavors like this. Good luck. Let us know how it goes. P.S. If things go well, get some business cards made. Later, ask her if you can use her as a reference. Have a nice one... Trent Budweiser: Helping ugly people have sex since 1876! |
#20
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I was making things more complicated than they needed to be. It took
less than an hour to come up with a rough sketch based on the first one I did, scaled down with a different top and using the materials I have on hand. I sent it along with a photo of the woods this afternoon and have already gotten an enthusiastic go ahead from her. http://mysite.verizon.net/vze3kkvm/proposal.html I was thinking about putting together a little photo album of pictures taken along the way with my contact info at the end to send along with it. I can send a few to the client to keep her updated, and then perhaps the album will bring another job. -Leuf |
#23
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Nice.... the leaves make it "New England" in the fall.
Bob S. "Leuf" wrote in message ... I was making things more complicated than they needed to be. It took less than an hour to come up with a rough sketch based on the first one I did, scaled down with a different top and using the materials I have on hand. I sent it along with a photo of the woods this afternoon and have already gotten an enthusiastic go ahead from her. http://mysite.verizon.net/vze3kkvm/proposal.html I was thinking about putting together a little photo album of pictures taken along the way with my contact info at the end to send along with it. I can send a few to the client to keep her updated, and then perhaps the album will bring another job. -Leuf |
#24
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"Leuf" wrote in message ... I was making things more complicated than they needed to be. It took less than an hour to come up with a rough sketch based on the first one I did, scaled down with a different top and using the materials I have on hand. I sent it along with a photo of the woods this afternoon and have already gotten an enthusiastic go ahead from her. http://mysite.verizon.net/vze3kkvm/proposal.html I was thinking about putting together a little photo album of pictures taken along the way with my contact info at the end to send along with it. I can send a few to the client to keep her updated, and then perhaps the album will bring another job. -Leuf get her to sign a printout of your pattern and mail it to you with her deposit check. also let her know that any design changes after you start production will cost her something. this is what i have to do when designing and producing stained glass projects. otherwise the customer keeps coming up with changes in pattern or color, and you're trying to hit a moving target. |
#25
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On Tue, 02 Nov 2004 05:30:44 GMT, Leuf
wrote: I was making things more complicated than they needed to be. It took less than an hour to come up with a rough sketch based on the first one I did, scaled down with a different top and using the materials I have on hand. I sent it along with a photo of the woods this afternoon and have already gotten an enthusiastic go ahead from her. http://mysite.verizon.net/vze3kkvm/proposal.html I was thinking about putting together a little photo album of pictures taken along the way with my contact info at the end to send along with it. I can send a few to the client to keep her updated, and then perhaps the album will bring another job. -Leuf Good solution and good job... You could have been more professional in your proposal, but IMHO, informal is better if you want "artisan" prices, professional is great for bulk or volume items.. Like most things in life, it's the selling as much as the quality that makes people feel good about the decision to use you, and referrals follow.. |
#26
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On Tue, 02 Nov 2004 16:17:54 GMT, mac davis
wrote: Good solution and good job... You could have been more professional in your proposal, but IMHO, informal is better if you want "artisan" prices, professional is great for bulk or volume items.. I agree that it could have been more professional, but I tried to do it as if she were in the room as a sketch to further discussion, with the intent to follow up with a more formal drawing. It doesn't appear that will be necessary, though I think I will go through the process just for my own sake. Interesting comment about the process being different for "arty" work. I'd just gone looking at some websites with jewelry boxes and stumbled across this one site where I read, "Peruse my web-site, and see what truly fine woodworking can be. (Woodworkers will likely learn a thing or two.)" And on and on like that. If that's what being an "artisan" leads to I think I'll aim for glorified carpenter instead. Though actually the guy's prices were reasonable, go figure. Like most things in life, it's the selling as much as the quality that makes people feel good about the decision to use you, and referrals follow.. I think it's a skill that needs to be developed along with your technical skills. I guess it comes naturally to some people. My parents are building a new house and in talking with the builder within 2 minutes you know you want to work with the guy. I tried to just pay attention to him and learn a few things. -Leuf |
#27
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On Tue, 02 Nov 2004 20:42:45 GMT, Leuf
wrote: Leuf.. I think we're coming from the same direction, I just didn't explain what I meant by artisan prices.. I was thinking more of how you want the client to perceive your work than how you/we do... folks just pay more for something made by an artist... and to someone like me or to a client, the skill level and talent to make a good jewelry box (which I hope to develop) is an art... When you do or know something well, you tend to take it for granted... like "doesn't everyone do this?"... but to folks that have never ripped a board on a power saw, what you do is damn near magic... and it helps your checkbook to let them believe that.. *g* On Tue, 02 Nov 2004 16:17:54 GMT, mac davis wrote: Good solution and good job... You could have been more professional in your proposal, but IMHO, informal is better if you want "artisan" prices, professional is great for bulk or volume items.. I agree that it could have been more professional, but I tried to do it as if she were in the room as a sketch to further discussion, with the intent to follow up with a more formal drawing. It doesn't appear that will be necessary, though I think I will go through the process just for my own sake. Interesting comment about the process being different for "arty" work. I'd just gone looking at some websites with jewelry boxes and stumbled across this one site where I read, "Peruse my web-site, and see what truly fine woodworking can be. (Woodworkers will likely learn a thing or two.)" And on and on like that. If that's what being an "artisan" leads to I think I'll aim for glorified carpenter instead. Though actually the guy's prices were reasonable, go figure. Like most things in life, it's the selling as much as the quality that makes people feel good about the decision to use you, and referrals follow.. I think it's a skill that needs to be developed along with your technical skills. I guess it comes naturally to some people. My parents are building a new house and in talking with the builder within 2 minutes you know you want to work with the guy. I tried to just pay attention to him and learn a few things. -Leuf |
#28
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I was always interested in what potential customers already had.
Most of them already have some design boundaries set up, even if they don't know it. Then I wanted to know where it would go. That can tell you a lot. Then I wanted to know what it would be used for. Then I wanted to know how much it should cost. It was at this point that the conversation usually ended. Regards, Tom. "People funny. Life a funny thing." Sonny Liston Thomas J.Watson - Cabinetmaker (ret.) tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet (real email) http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1 |
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