On Sun, 03 Jun 2018 01:08:36 -0400, J. Clarke
wrote:

On Sat, 02 Jun 2018 21:41:25 -0700, OFWW
wrote:

On Sat, 2 Jun 2018 22:23:54 -0500, -MIKE-
wrote:

On 6/2/18 9:41 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
On Sun, 03 Jun 2018 02:10:39 GMT, Puckdropper
wrote:

-MIKE- wrote in news
On 6/2/18 10:11 AM, Puckdropper wrote:

My most recent wiring project was running outdoor rated CAT6 out to
the garage. You're already digging for one set of cable, might it be
worth digging for another? (Cat6 is easy to terminate, just use a
punch down connector and a decent punch tool.)

You can't run network cable close to power cable, though, unless you
take certain precautions. Parallel runs are a bad thing, but if you
must go close to power cables you can enclose the cable in a grounded
pipe. I didn't run in to these problems with my cable run, so I
didn't research them further.

Puckdropper


My buddy is an IT guru and he told me to run CAT10 with the AC and I'd
be fine.



I wasn't aware CAT10 was a thing yet. AFAICT, they're only up to CAT7.

A quick search (I'm not an expert, not even claiming to be) doesn't show
any results for CAT10. Wonder if he meant something different?

FWIW, I'd put the LAN cables in a different conduit as well. You know
that LAN standards will evolve for a while longer and you might decide 20
years down the road it's worth upgrading to faster cable. It'd be easier
to pull the cables out if all that's there is LAN and you don't have
another cable you need to stay put.

While I agree that it's good to have the cables separated, I would be
very surprised if anything above 10GB/sec was common for home use in
20 years. The trend is to wifi, not faster wired networks.


My guy says the trend will be back to wired, because wireless is getting
too clogged up.
Wired is still faster and more reliable and will be for the foreseeable
future or until they find new frequencies. :-)

He is right. Especially when you find out how easy it is to hack WIFI
to the homes and businesses around you, especially on those that
haven't a clue about security. Years ago I used to connect up and
print out messages on their printers to clue them in.

Wired is faster, but how fast do you NEED? I see no evidence of a
trend to wired for residential use.

As for ease of hacking, this is mostly FUD. Has any data breach
causing economic harm to anyone _ever_ been traced to a wifi hack?

Most data thieves don't go after Joe Homeowner or Fred's Pizza. They
go after somebody who is likely to have enough in assets accessible by
computer to actually be worth stealing.

You haven't a clue. You can sit in a parking lot and hack into BB or
HD or any other corp, once in you can go hard wired where you have the
speed to d/l whatever you accessed.

As to homes, you can access all their business info, CC's Bank
accounts, Photo's and video's, whatever they have.

Why do you think some people hacked the local CC readers of peoples
personal accounts like at Target, and with drew a slew of minimal
amounts from many people and had the money transferred elsewhere?

Why do people attach CC readers to gas pumps, and bank withdrawal
systems? They go where ever there is easy money and few are going to
trace down 500 or 1000 bucks here and there, they just right it off as
the cost of doing business.

If you are that naive, then you are probable vulnerable.

On Sun, 03 Jun 2018 01:02:59 -0400, J. Clarke
wrote:

On Sat, 02 Jun 2018 21:37:33 -0700, OFWW
wrote:

On Sat, 02 Jun 2018 22:41:44 -0400, J. Clarke
wrote:

On Sun, 03 Jun 2018 02:10:39 GMT, Puckdropper
wrote:

-MIKE- wrote in news
On 6/2/18 10:11 AM, Puckdropper wrote:

My most recent wiring project was running outdoor rated CAT6 out to
the garage. You're already digging for one set of cable, might it be
worth digging for another? (Cat6 is easy to terminate, just use a
punch down connector and a decent punch tool.)

You can't run network cable close to power cable, though, unless you
take certain precautions. Parallel runs are a bad thing, but if you
must go close to power cables you can enclose the cable in a grounded
pipe. I didn't run in to these problems with my cable run, so I
didn't research them further.

Puckdropper


My buddy is an IT guru and he told me to run CAT10 with the AC and I'd
be fine.



I wasn't aware CAT10 was a thing yet. AFAICT, they're only up to CAT7.

A quick search (I'm not an expert, not even claiming to be) doesn't show
any results for CAT10. Wonder if he meant something different?

FWIW, I'd put the LAN cables in a different conduit as well. You know
that LAN standards will evolve for a while longer and you might decide 20
years down the road it's worth upgrading to faster cable. It'd be easier
to pull the cables out if all that's there is LAN and you don't have
another cable you need to stay put.

While I agree that it's good to have the cables separated, I would be
very surprised if anything above 10GB/sec was common for home use in
20 years. The trend is to wifi, not faster wired networks.

Actually you need a lot more if you are doing multiple TV's on the
Net, computers, etc.

A lot more than TEN BILLION BITS PER SECOND?

I should have typed 10Gbps. and a bit is not a byte.


I have High speed WIFI necessary because things
move around here a lot, plus we can use it in the back yard and
garage. With the grand kids here and online video games plus the video
interaction you need a good home backbone, and I can certainly tell
the difference between hardwired network to my HO computer verse wifi
to laptops, phones and tablets.

How old is your wifi? If it's not 802.11n at least, it's time to
upgrade.

I always have the latest, and the integration is possible on mine as
well so I have full usability on the High and low freqs at the same
time for faster throughput. While the data lines are 1gig, the
backbone of my switch is high to all the 1 gig on more than one line
at a time.

On Fiber optics 1 to 100gig is easily possible.

Want to play Name that Tune?

On Sun, 03 Jun 2018 01:20:55 -0400, J. Clarke
wrote:

On Sat, 02 Jun 2018 21:46:53 -0700, OFWW
wrote:

On Sat, 02 Jun 2018 23:40:02 -0400, wrote:

On Sat, 2 Jun 2018 22:23:54 -0500, -MIKE-
wrote:

On 6/2/18 9:41 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
On Sun, 03 Jun 2018 02:10:39 GMT, Puckdropper
wrote:

-MIKE- wrote in news
On 6/2/18 10:11 AM, Puckdropper wrote:

My most recent wiring project was running outdoor rated CAT6 out to
the garage. You're already digging for one set of cable, might it be
worth digging for another? (Cat6 is easy to terminate, just use a
punch down connector and a decent punch tool.)

You can't run network cable close to power cable, though, unless you
take certain precautions. Parallel runs are a bad thing, but if you
must go close to power cables you can enclose the cable in a grounded
pipe. I didn't run in to these problems with my cable run, so I
didn't research them further.

Puckdropper


My buddy is an IT guru and he told me to run CAT10 with the AC and I'd
be fine.



I wasn't aware CAT10 was a thing yet. AFAICT, they're only up to CAT7.

A quick search (I'm not an expert, not even claiming to be) doesn't show
any results for CAT10. Wonder if he meant something different?

FWIW, I'd put the LAN cables in a different conduit as well. You know
that LAN standards will evolve for a while longer and you might decide 20
years down the road it's worth upgrading to faster cable. It'd be easier
to pull the cables out if all that's there is LAN and you don't have
another cable you need to stay put.

While I agree that it's good to have the cables separated, I would be
very surprised if anything above 10GB/sec was common for home use in
20 years. The trend is to wifi, not faster wired networks.


My guy says the trend will be back to wired, because wireless is getting
too clogged up.

I don't believe that at all. Antenna diversity and MIMO solve these
problems in all but the most dense living situations.

Wired is still faster and more reliable and will be for the foreseeable
future or until they find new frequencies. :-)

There is such a thing as "fast enough". We have exactly one wired link
in our house (that the cable company put in), basically because
there's no point in adding any more.

Wait till you see a decent fiber optic system and the possible speeds
and want to run 4k TV on wire for viewing new movies, especially on
more than one TV at a time. with full sound, using limited compression
and loss of musical tones.

I have no trouble running 4K TV over the built-in wifi in my TV. What
leads you to believe that is has some enormous bandwidth demand?


On cable networks they do not have 4K options in most any area. Our
local Cable does not have 4K video anything, any channel, local or
remote and has no current plans to do so. And Fibre Optics is not yet
avail to residences here.

On Direct TV I have two 4k Systems which is only available on 3
channels and I cannot run more than three TV's at the same time
without the system locking the rest out. The latest Genie is
unreliable on 4K

So while you might have a 4k TV, what makes you think you are actually
seeing 4K videos or movies?

As for "possible speeds", other than bragging rights what do these
"possible speeds" get you?


Greater detail in anything you do, less waiting time for anything.
Also the ability to video conference with the entire family at once
without stepping on each other.

Of course with the way my ears are going.

On Sun, 03 Jun 2018 02:04:58 -0400, J. Clarke
wrote:

On Sat, 02 Jun 2018 22:25:03 -0700, OFWW
wrote:

On Sun, 03 Jun 2018 00:38:01 -0400, J. Clarke
wrote:

On Sat, 02 Jun 2018 21:03:30 -0700, OFWW
wrote:

On Sat, 2 Jun 2018 19:53:25 -0500, -MIKE-
wrote:

On 6/2/18 7:37 PM, OFWW wrote:
On Sat, 2 Jun 2018 16:26:12 -0500, -MIKE-
wrote:

On 6/2/18 10:11 AM, Puckdropper wrote:
-MIKE- wrote in news

Funnier part... finding this pipe under the pad distracted me so much
that I forgot that I had already figured all this out. :-)
I can't use that path because it I would have to take a hard right
turn and then another left to go around the end of the septic system's
leach field. I don't like the prospect of pulling #6 through those
bends on a 100'+ run.

On the far edge of the driveway is a row of 80ft Poplars. Because I
don't want to dig through their major roots, I can't use a ditch-witch
to trench that path.

At the corner of the garage where I intended to start the underground
conduit, there is an expansion joint in the parking area pad with
asphalt expansion joint filler. The path along that joint is far
enough away from the leach bed and far enough from the tree roots that
I can go straight back along that expansion joint.
All I have to do is rent a concrete saw and make one cut a few inches
from the existing expansion joint and then fill it back in with
Quickcrete when I'm done laying the conduit.

That will be easier than hand digging a trench around 3-4" tree roots
and trying to weave the conduit over and under them.



My most recent wiring project was running outdoor rated CAT6 out to the
garage. You're already digging for one set of cable, might it be worth
digging for another? (Cat6 is easy to terminate, just use a punch down
connector and a decent punch tool.)

You can't run network cable close to power cable, though, unless you take
certain precautions. Parallel runs are a bad thing, but if you must go
close to power cables you can enclose the cable in a grounded pipe. I
didn't run in to these problems with my cable run, so I didn't research
them further.

Puckdropper


My buddy is an IT guru and he told me to run CAT10 with the AC and I'd
be fine.

I am Cisco certified, it is not recommended.


60 cycle interference?

In is unsafe to take a chance with high voltage crossing over to a
consumer device. There is also the electromagnetic effect, especially
on an A/C system with its varying loads. On systems with variable
speed drives there are multiple problems, and it is also a Code
violation in most places. It is not even recommended to mix land line
phone lines in the walls, or conduit, and any box.

The twist in CAT cables knocks out a lot of noise but not all noise.

There are more technical reasons as well, but I'd have to look it up,
I just recently threw away all my books, manuals, etc. figuring I have
been retired long enough that I'd not ever need them again.

The code violation is the real issue. A 250 Mhz circuit is not going
to even see 60Hz unless it's of such magnitude that it generates an
arcover in the isolation transformers.

Note that phone line considerations are different from data. 60Hz is
audible--if you've got 60Hz interference on a phone line you can
_hear_ it. A 250 MHz data line is another story.

It isn't as cut n dry as you might think. Run a scope on the signal
look for the interference. If what you said were true you wouldn't
need a certain amount twists per a foot of Wire.

Twisted pair ethernet is unidirectional on a given pair. Gigabit uses
four pairs, two carrying signal one way and two carrying it the other
way. It's crosstalk on those pairs that is the major driver in the
spec.

Why the shielding?

On Sat, 02 Jun 2018 23:09:16 -0700, OFWW
wrote:

On Sun, 03 Jun 2018 00:35:08 -0400, J. Clarke
wrote:

On Sat, 02 Jun 2018 21:19:47 -0700, OFWW
wrote:

On Sat, 02 Jun 2018 21:09:48 -0400, J. Clarke
wrote:

On Sat, 02 Jun 2018 17:37:45 -0700, OFWW
wrote:

On Sat, 2 Jun 2018 16:26:12 -0500, -MIKE-
wrote:

On 6/2/18 10:11 AM, Puckdropper wrote:
-MIKE- wrote in news

Funnier part... finding this pipe under the pad distracted me so much
that I forgot that I had already figured all this out. :-)
I can't use that path because it I would have to take a hard right
turn and then another left to go around the end of the septic system's
leach field. I don't like the prospect of pulling #6 through those
bends on a 100'+ run.

On the far edge of the driveway is a row of 80ft Poplars. Because I
don't want to dig through their major roots, I can't use a ditch-witch
to trench that path.

At the corner of the garage where I intended to start the underground
conduit, there is an expansion joint in the parking area pad with
asphalt expansion joint filler. The path along that joint is far
enough away from the leach bed and far enough from the tree roots that
I can go straight back along that expansion joint.
All I have to do is rent a concrete saw and make one cut a few inches
from the existing expansion joint and then fill it back in with
Quickcrete when I'm done laying the conduit.

That will be easier than hand digging a trench around 3-4" tree roots
and trying to weave the conduit over and under them.



My most recent wiring project was running outdoor rated CAT6 out to the
garage. You're already digging for one set of cable, might it be worth
digging for another? (Cat6 is easy to terminate, just use a punch down
connector and a decent punch tool.)

You can't run network cable close to power cable, though, unless you take
certain precautions. Parallel runs are a bad thing, but if you must go
close to power cables you can enclose the cable in a grounded pipe. I
didn't run in to these problems with my cable run, so I didn't research
them further.

Puckdropper


My buddy is an IT guru and he told me to run CAT10 with the AC and I'd
be fine.

I am Cisco certified, it is not recommended.

The important issue is what code says and I believe that code says
that data cable must be in a separate conduit from power cable.

The crosstalk issue, while real, is much overblown--AC is 60Hz,
Ethernet today is 100-250 Mhz. Any 250 Mhz transcierver that can't
reject 60Hz is crap. The overvoltage issue is also overblown with
Ethernet--modern Ethernet is transformer-coupled and in any case the
actual risk if you blow both ends is under a hundred bucks worth of
hardware.


Have you ever seen someone zapped with high voltage when they touched
their computer case? Yes, I know the in most cases the NIC will act as
a fuse, but not always.

If the NIC acts as a fuse, the NIC was a piece of **** to begin with.
What part of "transformer coupled" are you having trouble with? Unless
someone has screwed up there is NO contact between a twisted pair
Ethernet cable and any part of the computer case, directly or
indirectly.


It is not designed to act as one, it is just that there is a certain
chip in their that has a high failure rate and has actually save many
computers as a result.

Which chip in a modern twisted pair network interface would that be?

Pulling wires often scuffs insulation with resulting voltage bleed or
high capacitance charge. Don't believe me, then run a megohm test on
the wire to the conduit or attached motors. I have seen more than one
erratic operating piece of equipment that was due to this and it
affect all electronics associated with it.

So?

I have also felt capacitance grounding by touching a computer and
another metal electric device that had a proper ground and not just
some two wire plug.

Perhaps you have, but it did not come through a twiste pair Ethernet
cable.

Getting zapped by a floating ground with Token Ring or Arcnet or
coaxial Ethernet are more likely occurrances--all of those use
shielded cable with the shields grounded to the chassis. But those
have all been dead for a couple of decades now.


That is true as well.

It was more of an issue with phones--nobody wanted to answer the phone
and get a load of high voltage for his trouble.

The big issue though is that somewhere down the road some moron is
going to assume that there is only data cable in the conduit, run a
fish tape down it with the power on, zap himself, and possibly burn
down the building.

In the early 1980s the Hamilton-Standard factory in Windsor Locks CT
(roughly a million square feet, roughly 10,000 employees) was shut
down for a day because somebody tried to pull a phone line through a
power conduit. He got himself electrocuted (he survived mostly due to
the fast action of one of the engineers) and set the building on fire.
Part of the factory was shut down for a week due to no power while the
conduit was replaced and the wiring pulled and tested, this time sans
data cables.

This is the big reason to keep them isolated.

Yes, it is the biggest reason, but when you get network speeds running
really slow because of the crap interference, and this being a daily
issue it is quite costly.

Quite costly to some guy running cable from his house to his garage?
OK, tell us exactly how much it costs him, in dollars, to be getting
500 Mb/sec instead 1000 Mb/sec.

What if he only got 2Mbps? WIFI can eliminate all that, and be less
expensive as well.

If he only got 2 Mb/sec out of modern Ethernet he's got a computer in
the middle there purposely designed to be a throttle.

Gigabit is just not that fragile. It has been shown to run on barbed
wire.

I've seen T1 data lines running at 2mbits because of it, and a db
backup that would take multiple hours as opposed to minutes because of
it, add that to normal network traffic and it is ridiculous.

You just blew your cred. T1 is rated for 1.544 Mb/sec. If you were
getting 2 then it was exceeding its rated performance and you have
nothing to complain about.


It was actually a T3 for that case. You are right, and I have also
been retired more than long enough to forget all the figures on a
moments notice. I'm currently only concerned about what goes on here
at home.

I also still have a few routers, switches and stuff, Cisco commercial
products, wanna buy them and get them off my hands?

I suspect that they are well and truly obsolete.

In any case, nobody is going to be running a T1 from their house to
their garage on a CAT6 cable. What's going to be running on it, in
2018, is gigabit Ethernet.

Of course not, the switchgear costs alone would be prohibitive, plus
the cabling. But he could run fiber optics and never have any of the
problems associated with hard wire systems.

What would justify the expense?

If my creds are so important to you then you can call Cisco and see
what all I was certified for at the time. I am not keeping my certs
updated because I am retired. Get it?

I did not say "creds", I said "cred". You're topping it the expert
here when it's clear that you are far from up to date.

In one job I did a log of the bit rates over a period of time to show
consistency of the loads and loss of data speed verses what a properly
installed data line would do, and they ended up not only paying the
money to replace the entire line but upgraded the speed so that there
was no negative impact whatever was happening.

That's nice. What does it have to do with some guy running a wire
from his house to his garage?


Explaining or rationalizing why it is important to do it right in the
first place.

What is "right" and what is adequate to the task are two different
things.

In that case they thought they could not afford the cost of
replacement, and over a period of years they just got used to it and
considered in "normal" for that site. So I basically invested my own
time to do this and show them what their real costs were. After that
their eyes were opened and they started looking at all their remote
sites to see if they were getting what they were paying for.

I got nothing out of it, but thanks from the employee's that were
effected. That was good enough for me.

Well that's all well and good. So how much measured degradtation have
you experiences in wires run from people's houses to people's garages
carrying gigabit?

I didn't do houses expect for friends. But the ground field for the
bldg is a big issue in such cases which I addressed in another post.

Yeah, you addressed it but didn't give any reason to believe that you
are familiar with transformer-coupled network interfaces which are
standard with modern Ethernet but apparently didn't exist the last
time you dealt with Ethernet.

If I gave you my full resume from all the years I've worked you would
probably call me a liar too. Oh well. what's a guy to do?

I don't care about your damned resume. You remind me of the mainframe
types who have been in IT for 50 years but can't figure out how to
work Excel.

On Sat, 02 Jun 2018 23:29:06 -0700, OFWW
wrote:

On Sun, 03 Jun 2018 01:02:59 -0400, J. Clarke
wrote:

On Sat, 02 Jun 2018 21:37:33 -0700, OFWW
wrote:

On Sat, 02 Jun 2018 22:41:44 -0400, J. Clarke
wrote:

On Sun, 03 Jun 2018 02:10:39 GMT, Puckdropper
wrote:

-MIKE- wrote in news
On 6/2/18 10:11 AM, Puckdropper wrote:

My most recent wiring project was running outdoor rated CAT6 out to
the garage. You're already digging for one set of cable, might it be
worth digging for another? (Cat6 is easy to terminate, just use a
punch down connector and a decent punch tool.)

You can't run network cable close to power cable, though, unless you
take certain precautions. Parallel runs are a bad thing, but if you
must go close to power cables you can enclose the cable in a grounded
pipe. I didn't run in to these problems with my cable run, so I
didn't research them further.

Puckdropper


My buddy is an IT guru and he told me to run CAT10 with the AC and I'd
be fine.



I wasn't aware CAT10 was a thing yet. AFAICT, they're only up to CAT7.

A quick search (I'm not an expert, not even claiming to be) doesn't show
any results for CAT10. Wonder if he meant something different?

FWIW, I'd put the LAN cables in a different conduit as well. You know
that LAN standards will evolve for a while longer and you might decide 20
years down the road it's worth upgrading to faster cable. It'd be easier
to pull the cables out if all that's there is LAN and you don't have
another cable you need to stay put.

While I agree that it's good to have the cables separated, I would be
very surprised if anything above 10GB/sec was common for home use in
20 years. The trend is to wifi, not faster wired networks.

Actually you need a lot more if you are doing multiple TV's on the
Net, computers, etc.

A lot more than TEN BILLION BITS PER SECOND?

I should have typed 10Gbps. and a bit is not a byte.

Nobody said it was. Show us that a lot more than that is needed in a
home network.

I have High speed WIFI necessary because things
move around here a lot, plus we can use it in the back yard and
garage. With the grand kids here and online video games plus the video
interaction you need a good home backbone, and I can certainly tell
the difference between hardwired network to my HO computer verse wifi
to laptops, phones and tablets.

How old is your wifi? If it's not 802.11n at least, it's time to
upgrade.

I always have the latest, and the integration is possible on mine as
well so I have full usability on the High and low freqs at the same
time for faster throughput. While the data lines are 1gig, the
backbone of my switch is high to all the 1 gig on more than one line
at a time.

On Fiber optics 1 to 100gig is easily possible.

Want to play Name that Tune?

You're claiming that your one gig wifi can't handle 4K TV? You
definitely _are_ lying about something.

On Sun, 03 Jun 2018 02:11:21 -0400, J. Clarke
wrote:

On Sat, 02 Jun 2018 22:34:23 -0700, OFWW
wrote:

On Sat, 2 Jun 2018 23:41:57 -0500, -MIKE-
wrote:

On 6/2/18 11:03 PM, OFWW wrote:
On Sat, 2 Jun 2018 19:53:25 -0500, -MIKE-
wrote:

On 6/2/18 7:37 PM, OFWW wrote:
On Sat, 2 Jun 2018 16:26:12 -0500, -MIKE-
wrote:

On 6/2/18 10:11 AM, Puckdropper wrote:
-MIKE- wrote in news

Funnier part... finding this pipe under the pad distracted me so much
that I forgot that I had already figured all this out. :-)
I can't use that path because it I would have to take a hard right
turn and then another left to go around the end of the septic system's
leach field. I don't like the prospect of pulling #6 through those
bends on a 100'+ run.

On the far edge of the driveway is a row of 80ft Poplars. Because I
don't want to dig through their major roots, I can't use a ditch-witch
to trench that path.

At the corner of the garage where I intended to start the underground
conduit, there is an expansion joint in the parking area pad with
asphalt expansion joint filler. The path along that joint is far
enough away from the leach bed and far enough from the tree roots that
I can go straight back along that expansion joint.
All I have to do is rent a concrete saw and make one cut a few inches
from the existing expansion joint and then fill it back in with
Quickcrete when I'm done laying the conduit.

That will be easier than hand digging a trench around 3-4" tree roots
and trying to weave the conduit over and under them.



My most recent wiring project was running outdoor rated CAT6 out to the
garage. You're already digging for one set of cable, might it be worth
digging for another? (Cat6 is easy to terminate, just use a punch down
connector and a decent punch tool.)

You can't run network cable close to power cable, though, unless you take
certain precautions. Parallel runs are a bad thing, but if you must go
close to power cables you can enclose the cable in a grounded pipe. I
didn't run in to these problems with my cable run, so I didn't research
them further.

Puckdropper


My buddy is an IT guru and he told me to run CAT10 with the AC and I'd
be fine.

I am Cisco certified, it is not recommended.


60 cycle interference?

In is unsafe to take a chance with high voltage crossing over to a
consumer device. There is also the electromagnetic effect, especially
on an A/C system with its varying loads. On systems with variable
speed drives there are multiple problems, and it is also a Code
violation in most places. It is not even recommended to mix land line
phone lines in the walls, or conduit, and any box.

The twist in CAT cables knocks out a lot of noise but not all noise.

There are more technical reasons as well, but I'd have to look it up,
I just recently threw away all my books, manuals, etc. figuring I have
been retired long enough that I'd not ever need them again.


Well, I may end up running a metal conduit along side to get the
shielding for whatever data wire I run out there.
When I was in TCOM, we microwaved everything, so maybe I'll just do
that. :-)

There is that option, as well as WIFI with the right antennae's.

Wifi _is_ microwave. It runs 2.5 or 5 GHz, both of which are solidly
in the microwave range.


Where is the warning for radiation?
Microwaves travel by line of sight.

See how ridiculous this is all getting?

We
have installed systems at low cost that were acceptable over several
miles.

A wired system might need a signal booster/repeater depending on the
total conduit feet run. I'd be tempted to run an above ground test
setup with a computer at the other end plugged into the power supply
in that bldg and run a speed test via software and see if there are
little to no problems.

Signal booster? Repeater? You really are out of touch. Twisted pair
ethernet is rated for 100 meters with timing being the limiting
factor. You can't extend it with a signal booster or repeater. The
correct means of extending the range is to use a switch and another
100 meter run (hubs don't exist for anything above 10baseT--100baseTX
and gigabit are always switched). If you need an uninterrupted run
longer than 100 meters you need to go to fiber for that run. However
running from a house to a garage should not be 100 meters unless it's
a very large property.


You are full of crap.
https://www.amazon.com/TRENDnet-Repe...signal+booster
One of many Price has dropped dramatically. From years ago.

Can't extend it Eh?

https://www.amazon.com/NETGEAR-DS108.../dp/B00000J4L5

100Mbps hub also useful as a type 2 repeater.

This is all small business/HO type equipment. Also available in the
High end systems.

Sorry you are having such a problems with this but when I hit the
switch for my computer tonight this subject with you is over.

I might have problems with being a bit overcautious here.

On Sun, 03 Jun 2018 02:48:26 -0400, J. Clarke
wrote:

On Sat, 02 Jun 2018 23:09:16 -0700, OFWW
wrote:

On Sun, 03 Jun 2018 00:35:08 -0400, J. Clarke
wrote:

On Sat, 02 Jun 2018 21:19:47 -0700, OFWW
wrote:

On Sat, 02 Jun 2018 21:09:48 -0400, J. Clarke
wrote:

On Sat, 02 Jun 2018 17:37:45 -0700, OFWW
wrote:

On Sat, 2 Jun 2018 16:26:12 -0500, -MIKE-
wrote:

On 6/2/18 10:11 AM, Puckdropper wrote:
-MIKE- wrote in news

Funnier part... finding this pipe under the pad distracted me so much
that I forgot that I had already figured all this out. :-)
I can't use that path because it I would have to take a hard right
turn and then another left to go around the end of the septic system's
leach field. I don't like the prospect of pulling #6 through those
bends on a 100'+ run.

On the far edge of the driveway is a row of 80ft Poplars. Because I
don't want to dig through their major roots, I can't use a ditch-witch
to trench that path.

At the corner of the garage where I intended to start the underground
conduit, there is an expansion joint in the parking area pad with
asphalt expansion joint filler. The path along that joint is far
enough away from the leach bed and far enough from the tree roots that
I can go straight back along that expansion joint.
All I have to do is rent a concrete saw and make one cut a few inches
from the existing expansion joint and then fill it back in with
Quickcrete when I'm done laying the conduit.

That will be easier than hand digging a trench around 3-4" tree roots
and trying to weave the conduit over and under them.



My most recent wiring project was running outdoor rated CAT6 out to the
garage. You're already digging for one set of cable, might it be worth
digging for another? (Cat6 is easy to terminate, just use a punch down
connector and a decent punch tool.)

You can't run network cable close to power cable, though, unless you take
certain precautions. Parallel runs are a bad thing, but if you must go
close to power cables you can enclose the cable in a grounded pipe. I
didn't run in to these problems with my cable run, so I didn't research
them further.

Puckdropper


My buddy is an IT guru and he told me to run CAT10 with the AC and I'd
be fine.

I am Cisco certified, it is not recommended.

The important issue is what code says and I believe that code says
that data cable must be in a separate conduit from power cable.

The crosstalk issue, while real, is much overblown--AC is 60Hz,
Ethernet today is 100-250 Mhz. Any 250 Mhz transcierver that can't
reject 60Hz is crap. The overvoltage issue is also overblown with
Ethernet--modern Ethernet is transformer-coupled and in any case the
actual risk if you blow both ends is under a hundred bucks worth of
hardware.


Have you ever seen someone zapped with high voltage when they touched
their computer case? Yes, I know the in most cases the NIC will act as
a fuse, but not always.

If the NIC acts as a fuse, the NIC was a piece of **** to begin with.
What part of "transformer coupled" are you having trouble with? Unless
someone has screwed up there is NO contact between a twisted pair
Ethernet cable and any part of the computer case, directly or
indirectly.


It is not designed to act as one, it is just that there is a certain
chip in their that has a high failure rate and has actually save many
computers as a result.

Which chip in a modern twisted pair network interface would that be?


I don't remember, but if someone posted it I would recall. The same
circuit is designed into the one chip NIC's as well.

Pulling wires often scuffs insulation with resulting voltage bleed or
high capacitance charge. Don't believe me, then run a megohm test on
the wire to the conduit or attached motors. I have seen more than one
erratic operating piece of equipment that was due to this and it
affect all electronics associated with it.

So?

I have also felt capacitance grounding by touching a computer and
another metal electric device that had a proper ground and not just
some two wire plug.

Perhaps you have, but it did not come through a twiste pair Ethernet
cable.


Prove it.

Getting zapped by a floating ground with Token Ring or Arcnet or
coaxial Ethernet are more likely occurrances--all of those use
shielded cable with the shields grounded to the chassis. But those
have all been dead for a couple of decades now.


That is true as well.

It was more of an issue with phones--nobody wanted to answer the phone
and get a load of high voltage for his trouble.

The big issue though is that somewhere down the road some moron is
going to assume that there is only data cable in the conduit, run a
fish tape down it with the power on, zap himself, and possibly burn
down the building.

In the early 1980s the Hamilton-Standard factory in Windsor Locks CT
(roughly a million square feet, roughly 10,000 employees) was shut
down for a day because somebody tried to pull a phone line through a
power conduit. He got himself electrocuted (he survived mostly due to
the fast action of one of the engineers) and set the building on fire.
Part of the factory was shut down for a week due to no power while the
conduit was replaced and the wiring pulled and tested, this time sans
data cables.

This is the big reason to keep them isolated.

Yes, it is the biggest reason, but when you get network speeds running
really slow because of the crap interference, and this being a daily
issue it is quite costly.

Quite costly to some guy running cable from his house to his garage?
OK, tell us exactly how much it costs him, in dollars, to be getting
500 Mb/sec instead 1000 Mb/sec.

What if he only got 2Mbps? WIFI can eliminate all that, and be less
expensive as well.

If he only got 2 Mb/sec out of modern Ethernet he's got a computer in
the middle there purposely designed to be a throttle.


Then you don't get what noisy lines are all about, and what can create
them. Interference. Also just pulling too hard on Ethernet cabling can
stretch the wire messing things up.

Anyhow, I have had enough or your extreme wisdom and knowledge for
tonight, and you had better tell Amazon to stop selling what isn't
made.

Gigabit is just not that fragile. It has been shown to run on barbed
wire.

I've seen T1 data lines running at 2mbits because of it, and a db
backup that would take multiple hours as opposed to minutes because of
it, add that to normal network traffic and it is ridiculous.

You just blew your cred. T1 is rated for 1.544 Mb/sec. If you were
getting 2 then it was exceeding its rated performance and you have
nothing to complain about.


It was actually a T3 for that case. You are right, and I have also
been retired more than long enough to forget all the figures on a
moments notice. I'm currently only concerned about what goes on here
at home.

I also still have a few routers, switches and stuff, Cisco commercial
products, wanna buy them and get them off my hands?

I suspect that they are well and truly obsolete.

In any case, nobody is going to be running a T1 from their house to
their garage on a CAT6 cable. What's going to be running on it, in
2018, is gigabit Ethernet.

Of course not, the switchgear costs alone would be prohibitive, plus
the cabling. But he could run fiber optics and never have any of the
problems associated with hard wire systems.

What would justify the expense?

If my creds are so important to you then you can call Cisco and see
what all I was certified for at the time. I am not keeping my certs
updated because I am retired. Get it?

I did not say "creds", I said "cred". You're topping it the expert
here when it's clear that you are far from up to date.

In one job I did a log of the bit rates over a period of time to show
consistency of the loads and loss of data speed verses what a properly
installed data line would do, and they ended up not only paying the
money to replace the entire line but upgraded the speed so that there
was no negative impact whatever was happening.

That's nice. What does it have to do with some guy running a wire
from his house to his garage?


Explaining or rationalizing why it is important to do it right in the
first place.

What is "right" and what is adequate to the task are two different
things.

In that case they thought they could not afford the cost of
replacement, and over a period of years they just got used to it and
considered in "normal" for that site. So I basically invested my own
time to do this and show them what their real costs were. After that
their eyes were opened and they started looking at all their remote
sites to see if they were getting what they were paying for.

I got nothing out of it, but thanks from the employee's that were
effected. That was good enough for me.

Well that's all well and good. So how much measured degradtation have
you experiences in wires run from people's houses to people's garages
carrying gigabit?

I didn't do houses expect for friends. But the ground field for the
bldg is a big issue in such cases which I addressed in another post.

Yeah, you addressed it but didn't give any reason to believe that you
are familiar with transformer-coupled network interfaces which are
standard with modern Ethernet but apparently didn't exist the last
time you dealt with Ethernet.

If I gave you my full resume from all the years I've worked you would
probably call me a liar too. Oh well. what's a guy to do?

I don't care about your damned resume. You remind me of the mainframe
types who have been in IT for 50 years but can't figure out how to
work Excel.

On Sun, 03 Jun 2018 02:50:37 -0400, J. Clarke
wrote:

On Sat, 02 Jun 2018 23:29:06 -0700, OFWW
wrote:

On Sun, 03 Jun 2018 01:02:59 -0400, J. Clarke
wrote:

On Sat, 02 Jun 2018 21:37:33 -0700, OFWW
wrote:

On Sat, 02 Jun 2018 22:41:44 -0400, J. Clarke
wrote:

On Sun, 03 Jun 2018 02:10:39 GMT, Puckdropper
wrote:

-MIKE- wrote in news
On 6/2/18 10:11 AM, Puckdropper wrote:

My most recent wiring project was running outdoor rated CAT6 out to
the garage. You're already digging for one set of cable, might it be
worth digging for another? (Cat6 is easy to terminate, just use a
punch down connector and a decent punch tool.)

You can't run network cable close to power cable, though, unless you
take certain precautions. Parallel runs are a bad thing, but if you
must go close to power cables you can enclose the cable in a grounded
pipe. I didn't run in to these problems with my cable run, so I
didn't research them further.

Puckdropper


My buddy is an IT guru and he told me to run CAT10 with the AC and I'd
be fine.



I wasn't aware CAT10 was a thing yet. AFAICT, they're only up to CAT7.

A quick search (I'm not an expert, not even claiming to be) doesn't show
any results for CAT10. Wonder if he meant something different?

FWIW, I'd put the LAN cables in a different conduit as well. You know
that LAN standards will evolve for a while longer and you might decide 20
years down the road it's worth upgrading to faster cable. It'd be easier
to pull the cables out if all that's there is LAN and you don't have
another cable you need to stay put.

While I agree that it's good to have the cables separated, I would be
very surprised if anything above 10GB/sec was common for home use in
20 years. The trend is to wifi, not faster wired networks.

Actually you need a lot more if you are doing multiple TV's on the
Net, computers, etc.

A lot more than TEN BILLION BITS PER SECOND?

I should have typed 10Gbps. and a bit is not a byte.

Nobody said it was. Show us that a lot more than that is needed in a
home network.

I have High speed WIFI necessary because things
move around here a lot, plus we can use it in the back yard and
garage. With the grand kids here and online video games plus the video
interaction you need a good home backbone, and I can certainly tell
the difference between hardwired network to my HO computer verse wifi
to laptops, phones and tablets.

How old is your wifi? If it's not 802.11n at least, it's time to
upgrade.

I always have the latest, and the integration is possible on mine as
well so I have full usability on the High and low freqs at the same
time for faster throughput. While the data lines are 1gig, the
backbone of my switch is high to all the 1 gig on more than one line
at a time.

On Fiber optics 1 to 100gig is easily possible.

Want to play Name that Tune?

You're claiming that your one gig wifi can't handle 4K TV? You
definitely _are_ lying about something.

I didn't say that and you did not answer by question about what makes
you think you are actually seeing 4K video?

I just opened this post to say I am heading off to bed and by computer
is being shut down, as is this thread with you. HAND

On Sat, 02 Jun 2018 23:20:00 -0700, OFWW
wrote:

On Sun, 03 Jun 2018 01:08:36 -0400, J. Clarke
wrote:

On Sat, 02 Jun 2018 21:41:25 -0700, OFWW
wrote:

On Sat, 2 Jun 2018 22:23:54 -0500, -MIKE-
wrote:

On 6/2/18 9:41 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
On Sun, 03 Jun 2018 02:10:39 GMT, Puckdropper
wrote:

-MIKE- wrote in news
On 6/2/18 10:11 AM, Puckdropper wrote:

My most recent wiring project was running outdoor rated CAT6 out to
the garage. You're already digging for one set of cable, might it be
worth digging for another? (Cat6 is easy to terminate, just use a
punch down connector and a decent punch tool.)

You can't run network cable close to power cable, though, unless you
take certain precautions. Parallel runs are a bad thing, but if you
must go close to power cables you can enclose the cable in a grounded
pipe. I didn't run in to these problems with my cable run, so I
didn't research them further.

Puckdropper


My buddy is an IT guru and he told me to run CAT10 with the AC and I'd
be fine.



I wasn't aware CAT10 was a thing yet. AFAICT, they're only up to CAT7.

A quick search (I'm not an expert, not even claiming to be) doesn't show
any results for CAT10. Wonder if he meant something different?

FWIW, I'd put the LAN cables in a different conduit as well. You know
that LAN standards will evolve for a while longer and you might decide 20
years down the road it's worth upgrading to faster cable. It'd be easier
to pull the cables out if all that's there is LAN and you don't have
another cable you need to stay put.

While I agree that it's good to have the cables separated, I would be
very surprised if anything above 10GB/sec was common for home use in
20 years. The trend is to wifi, not faster wired networks.


My guy says the trend will be back to wired, because wireless is getting
too clogged up.
Wired is still faster and more reliable and will be for the foreseeable
future or until they find new frequencies. :-)

He is right. Especially when you find out how easy it is to hack WIFI
to the homes and businesses around you, especially on those that
haven't a clue about security. Years ago I used to connect up and
print out messages on their printers to clue them in.

Wired is faster, but how fast do you NEED? I see no evidence of a
trend to wired for residential use.

As for ease of hacking, this is mostly FUD. Has any data breach
causing economic harm to anyone _ever_ been traced to a wifi hack?

Most data thieves don't go after Joe Homeowner or Fred's Pizza. They
go after somebody who is likely to have enough in assets accessible by
computer to actually be worth stealing.

You haven't a clue. You can sit in a parking lot and hack into BB or
HD or any other corp, once in you can go hard wired where you have the
speed to d/l whatever you accessed.

So tell us exactly how often this has actually happened in the real
world with resulting financial loss?

And how do you "go hard wired once you're in"? Do you somehow
magically make a wire fly through the air?

You are assuming that I don't know how to hack. The question is not
whether a hack is possible, it is whether it is sufficiently likely to
justify avoiding the use of a technology.

Your argument seems to be "Someone who is highly motivated and highly
skilled can potentially hack into a wifi network so everybody should
avoid wifi".

Tell us of ONE incident where someone successfully stole information
from either a Home Depot or a Best Buy by sitting in the parking lot
hacking their wifi. You are asserting that this is a serious risk
that justifies abandoning wifi, and you used Best Buy and Home Depot
as examples, so tell us when it actually happened. Not that they were
hacked "somehow" but specifically that they were hacked by someone
sitting in a parking lot penetrating their wifi.

As to homes, you can access all their business info, CC's Bank
accounts, Photo's and video's, whatever they have.

So tell us exactly how many times this has actually happened in the
real world with financial loss? Don't bluster about it, give us a
number.

Why do you think some people hacked the local CC readers of peoples
personal accounts like at Target, and with drew a slew of minimal
amounts from many people and had the money transferred elsewhere?

They didn't hack the "local CC readers of people's personal accounts",
they hacked the whole Target system so they were getting every credit
card that anybody used in any of the 1,828 Target stores. That's a
large enough volume to be worth attacking. And you have not
demonstrated that wifi had _any_ role in that attack.

Why do people attach CC readers to gas pumps, and bank withdrawal
systems? They go where ever there is easy money and few are going to
trace down 500 or 1000 bucks here and there, they just right it off as
the cost of doing business.

So how many did this by hacking wifi?

If you are that naive, then you are probable vulnerable.

I am far far more likely to be murdered, die in a car crash, drown,
fall, or experience death in some other manner than to be hacked.
There were less than a thousand documented hacking incidents with
financial loss in 2017.

One takes reasonable precautions but one does not build one's life
around the notion that one can come to grief.

And you have gone far afield from technical issues now.

On Sun, 03 Jun 2018 00:18:40 -0700, OFWW
wrote:

On Sun, 03 Jun 2018 02:48:26 -0400, J. Clarke
wrote:

On Sat, 02 Jun 2018 23:09:16 -0700, OFWW
wrote:

On Sun, 03 Jun 2018 00:35:08 -0400, J. Clarke
wrote:

On Sat, 02 Jun 2018 21:19:47 -0700, OFWW
wrote:

On Sat, 02 Jun 2018 21:09:48 -0400, J. Clarke
wrote:

On Sat, 02 Jun 2018 17:37:45 -0700, OFWW
wrote:

On Sat, 2 Jun 2018 16:26:12 -0500, -MIKE-
wrote:

On 6/2/18 10:11 AM, Puckdropper wrote:
-MIKE- wrote in news

Funnier part... finding this pipe under the pad distracted me so much
that I forgot that I had already figured all this out. :-)
I can't use that path because it I would have to take a hard right
turn and then another left to go around the end of the septic system's
leach field. I don't like the prospect of pulling #6 through those
bends on a 100'+ run.

On the far edge of the driveway is a row of 80ft Poplars. Because I
don't want to dig through their major roots, I can't use a ditch-witch
to trench that path.

At the corner of the garage where I intended to start the underground
conduit, there is an expansion joint in the parking area pad with
asphalt expansion joint filler. The path along that joint is far
enough away from the leach bed and far enough from the tree roots that
I can go straight back along that expansion joint.
All I have to do is rent a concrete saw and make one cut a few inches
from the existing expansion joint and then fill it back in with
Quickcrete when I'm done laying the conduit.

That will be easier than hand digging a trench around 3-4" tree roots
and trying to weave the conduit over and under them.



My most recent wiring project was running outdoor rated CAT6 out to the
garage. You're already digging for one set of cable, might it be worth
digging for another? (Cat6 is easy to terminate, just use a punch down
connector and a decent punch tool.)

You can't run network cable close to power cable, though, unless you take
certain precautions. Parallel runs are a bad thing, but if you must go
close to power cables you can enclose the cable in a grounded pipe. I
didn't run in to these problems with my cable run, so I didn't research
them further.

Puckdropper


My buddy is an IT guru and he told me to run CAT10 with the AC and I'd
be fine.

I am Cisco certified, it is not recommended.

The important issue is what code says and I believe that code says
that data cable must be in a separate conduit from power cable.

The crosstalk issue, while real, is much overblown--AC is 60Hz,
Ethernet today is 100-250 Mhz. Any 250 Mhz transcierver that can't
reject 60Hz is crap. The overvoltage issue is also overblown with
Ethernet--modern Ethernet is transformer-coupled and in any case the
actual risk if you blow both ends is under a hundred bucks worth of
hardware.


Have you ever seen someone zapped with high voltage when they touched
their computer case? Yes, I know the in most cases the NIC will act as
a fuse, but not always.

If the NIC acts as a fuse, the NIC was a piece of **** to begin with.
What part of "transformer coupled" are you having trouble with? Unless
someone has screwed up there is NO contact between a twisted pair
Ethernet cable and any part of the computer case, directly or
indirectly.


It is not designed to act as one, it is just that there is a certain
chip in their that has a high failure rate and has actually save many
computers as a result.

Which chip in a modern twisted pair network interface would that be?


I don't remember, but if someone posted it I would recall. The same
circuit is designed into the one chip NIC's as well.

Pulling wires often scuffs insulation with resulting voltage bleed or
high capacitance charge. Don't believe me, then run a megohm test on
the wire to the conduit or attached motors. I have seen more than one
erratic operating piece of equipment that was due to this and it
affect all electronics associated with it.

So?

I have also felt capacitance grounding by touching a computer and
another metal electric device that had a proper ground and not just
some two wire plug.

Perhaps you have, but it did not come through a twiste pair Ethernet
cable.


Prove it.

You prove that it did. You are asserting that it happened, so it's up
to you to support your argument.

Getting zapped by a floating ground with Token Ring or Arcnet or
coaxial Ethernet are more likely occurrances--all of those use
shielded cable with the shields grounded to the chassis. But those
have all been dead for a couple of decades now.


That is true as well.

It was more of an issue with phones--nobody wanted to answer the phone
and get a load of high voltage for his trouble.

The big issue though is that somewhere down the road some moron is
going to assume that there is only data cable in the conduit, run a
fish tape down it with the power on, zap himself, and possibly burn
down the building.

In the early 1980s the Hamilton-Standard factory in Windsor Locks CT
(roughly a million square feet, roughly 10,000 employees) was shut
down for a day because somebody tried to pull a phone line through a
power conduit. He got himself electrocuted (he survived mostly due to
the fast action of one of the engineers) and set the building on fire.
Part of the factory was shut down for a week due to no power while the
conduit was replaced and the wiring pulled and tested, this time sans
data cables.

This is the big reason to keep them isolated.

Yes, it is the biggest reason, but when you get network speeds running
really slow because of the crap interference, and this being a daily
issue it is quite costly.

Quite costly to some guy running cable from his house to his garage?
OK, tell us exactly how much it costs him, in dollars, to be getting
500 Mb/sec instead 1000 Mb/sec.

What if he only got 2Mbps? WIFI can eliminate all that, and be less
expensive as well.

If he only got 2 Mb/sec out of modern Ethernet he's got a computer in
the middle there purposely designed to be a throttle.


Then you don't get what noisy lines are all about, and what can create
them. Interference. Also just pulling too hard on Ethernet cabling can
stretch the wire messing things up.

So tells us of a documented case in which "pulling too hard on the
cable" or "interference" reduced the transfer rate for 1000BaseTX to 2
mb/sec. You're saying "can happen". So show us when it _did_ happen
or you're just spreading FUD.

Anyhow, I have had enough or your extreme wisdom and knowledge for
tonight, and you had better tell Amazon to stop selling what isn't
made.

What would that be?

Gigabit is just not that fragile. It has been shown to run on barbed
wire.

I've seen T1 data lines running at 2mbits because of it, and a db
backup that would take multiple hours as opposed to minutes because of
it, add that to normal network traffic and it is ridiculous.

You just blew your cred. T1 is rated for 1.544 Mb/sec. If you were
getting 2 then it was exceeding its rated performance and you have
nothing to complain about.


It was actually a T3 for that case. You are right, and I have also
been retired more than long enough to forget all the figures on a
moments notice. I'm currently only concerned about what goes on here
at home.

I also still have a few routers, switches and stuff, Cisco commercial
products, wanna buy them and get them off my hands?

I suspect that they are well and truly obsolete.

In any case, nobody is going to be running a T1 from their house to
their garage on a CAT6 cable. What's going to be running on it, in
2018, is gigabit Ethernet.

Of course not, the switchgear costs alone would be prohibitive, plus
the cabling. But he could run fiber optics and never have any of the
problems associated with hard wire systems.

What would justify the expense?

If my creds are so important to you then you can call Cisco and see
what all I was certified for at the time. I am not keeping my certs
updated because I am retired. Get it?

I did not say "creds", I said "cred". You're topping it the expert
here when it's clear that you are far from up to date.

In one job I did a log of the bit rates over a period of time to show
consistency of the loads and loss of data speed verses what a properly
installed data line would do, and they ended up not only paying the
money to replace the entire line but upgraded the speed so that there
was no negative impact whatever was happening.

That's nice. What does it have to do with some guy running a wire
from his house to his garage?


Explaining or rationalizing why it is important to do it right in the
first place.

What is "right" and what is adequate to the task are two different
things.

In that case they thought they could not afford the cost of
replacement, and over a period of years they just got used to it and
considered in "normal" for that site. So I basically invested my own
time to do this and show them what their real costs were. After that
their eyes were opened and they started looking at all their remote
sites to see if they were getting what they were paying for.

I got nothing out of it, but thanks from the employee's that were
effected. That was good enough for me.

Well that's all well and good. So how much measured degradtation have
you experiences in wires run from people's houses to people's garages
carrying gigabit?

I didn't do houses expect for friends. But the ground field for the
bldg is a big issue in such cases which I addressed in another post.

Yeah, you addressed it but didn't give any reason to believe that you
are familiar with transformer-coupled network interfaces which are
standard with modern Ethernet but apparently didn't exist the last
time you dealt with Ethernet.

If I gave you my full resume from all the years I've worked you would
probably call me a liar too. Oh well. what's a guy to do?

I don't care about your damned resume. You remind me of the mainframe
types who have been in IT for 50 years but can't figure out how to
work Excel.

On Sat, 02 Jun 2018 23:44:49 -0700, OFWW
wrote:

On Sun, 03 Jun 2018 02:04:58 -0400, J. Clarke
wrote:

On Sat, 02 Jun 2018 22:25:03 -0700, OFWW
wrote:

On Sun, 03 Jun 2018 00:38:01 -0400, J. Clarke
wrote:

On Sat, 02 Jun 2018 21:03:30 -0700, OFWW
wrote:

On Sat, 2 Jun 2018 19:53:25 -0500, -MIKE-
wrote:

On 6/2/18 7:37 PM, OFWW wrote:
On Sat, 2 Jun 2018 16:26:12 -0500, -MIKE-
wrote:

On 6/2/18 10:11 AM, Puckdropper wrote:
-MIKE- wrote in news

Funnier part... finding this pipe under the pad distracted me so much
that I forgot that I had already figured all this out. :-)
I can't use that path because it I would have to take a hard right
turn and then another left to go around the end of the septic system's
leach field. I don't like the prospect of pulling #6 through those
bends on a 100'+ run.

On the far edge of the driveway is a row of 80ft Poplars. Because I
don't want to dig through their major roots, I can't use a ditch-witch
to trench that path.

At the corner of the garage where I intended to start the underground
conduit, there is an expansion joint in the parking area pad with
asphalt expansion joint filler. The path along that joint is far
enough away from the leach bed and far enough from the tree roots that
I can go straight back along that expansion joint.
All I have to do is rent a concrete saw and make one cut a few inches
from the existing expansion joint and then fill it back in with
Quickcrete when I'm done laying the conduit.

That will be easier than hand digging a trench around 3-4" tree roots
and trying to weave the conduit over and under them.



My most recent wiring project was running outdoor rated CAT6 out to the
garage. You're already digging for one set of cable, might it be worth
digging for another? (Cat6 is easy to terminate, just use a punch down
connector and a decent punch tool.)

You can't run network cable close to power cable, though, unless you take
certain precautions. Parallel runs are a bad thing, but if you must go
close to power cables you can enclose the cable in a grounded pipe. I
didn't run in to these problems with my cable run, so I didn't research
them further.

Puckdropper


My buddy is an IT guru and he told me to run CAT10 with the AC and I'd
be fine.

I am Cisco certified, it is not recommended.


60 cycle interference?

In is unsafe to take a chance with high voltage crossing over to a
consumer device. There is also the electromagnetic effect, especially
on an A/C system with its varying loads. On systems with variable
speed drives there are multiple problems, and it is also a Code
violation in most places. It is not even recommended to mix land line
phone lines in the walls, or conduit, and any box.

The twist in CAT cables knocks out a lot of noise but not all noise.

There are more technical reasons as well, but I'd have to look it up,
I just recently threw away all my books, manuals, etc. figuring I have
been retired long enough that I'd not ever need them again.

The code violation is the real issue. A 250 Mhz circuit is not going
to even see 60Hz unless it's of such magnitude that it generates an
arcover in the isolation transformers.

Note that phone line considerations are different from data. 60Hz is
audible--if you've got 60Hz interference on a phone line you can
_hear_ it. A 250 MHz data line is another story.

It isn't as cut n dry as you might think. Run a scope on the signal
look for the interference. If what you said were true you wouldn't
need a certain amount twists per a foot of Wire.

Twisted pair ethernet is unidirectional on a given pair. Gigabit uses
four pairs, two carrying signal one way and two carrying it the other
way. It's crosstalk on those pairs that is the major driver in the
spec.

Why the shielding?

What shielding? CAT1 through 6A are _not_ shielded and 6A is
specified to carry 10 gig Ethernet 100 meters. The first shielded
"CAT" level is CAT7, which is not recognized by EIA/TIA and is not
required by any IEEE standard.

On Sun, 03 Jun 2018 00:11:04 -0700, OFWW
wrote:

On Sun, 03 Jun 2018 02:11:21 -0400, J. Clarke
wrote:

On Sat, 02 Jun 2018 22:34:23 -0700, OFWW
wrote:

On Sat, 2 Jun 2018 23:41:57 -0500, -MIKE-
wrote:

On 6/2/18 11:03 PM, OFWW wrote:
On Sat, 2 Jun 2018 19:53:25 -0500, -MIKE-
wrote:

On 6/2/18 7:37 PM, OFWW wrote:
On Sat, 2 Jun 2018 16:26:12 -0500, -MIKE-
wrote:

On 6/2/18 10:11 AM, Puckdropper wrote:
-MIKE- wrote in news

Funnier part... finding this pipe under the pad distracted me so much
that I forgot that I had already figured all this out. :-)
I can't use that path because it I would have to take a hard right
turn and then another left to go around the end of the septic system's
leach field. I don't like the prospect of pulling #6 through those
bends on a 100'+ run.

On the far edge of the driveway is a row of 80ft Poplars. Because I
don't want to dig through their major roots, I can't use a ditch-witch
to trench that path.

At the corner of the garage where I intended to start the underground
conduit, there is an expansion joint in the parking area pad with
asphalt expansion joint filler. The path along that joint is far
enough away from the leach bed and far enough from the tree roots that
I can go straight back along that expansion joint.
All I have to do is rent a concrete saw and make one cut a few inches
from the existing expansion joint and then fill it back in with
Quickcrete when I'm done laying the conduit.

That will be easier than hand digging a trench around 3-4" tree roots
and trying to weave the conduit over and under them.



My most recent wiring project was running outdoor rated CAT6 out to the
garage. You're already digging for one set of cable, might it be worth
digging for another? (Cat6 is easy to terminate, just use a punch down
connector and a decent punch tool.)

You can't run network cable close to power cable, though, unless you take
certain precautions. Parallel runs are a bad thing, but if you must go
close to power cables you can enclose the cable in a grounded pipe. I
didn't run in to these problems with my cable run, so I didn't research
them further.

Puckdropper


My buddy is an IT guru and he told me to run CAT10 with the AC and I'd
be fine.

I am Cisco certified, it is not recommended.


60 cycle interference?

In is unsafe to take a chance with high voltage crossing over to a
consumer device. There is also the electromagnetic effect, especially
on an A/C system with its varying loads. On systems with variable
speed drives there are multiple problems, and it is also a Code
violation in most places. It is not even recommended to mix land line
phone lines in the walls, or conduit, and any box.

The twist in CAT cables knocks out a lot of noise but not all noise.

There are more technical reasons as well, but I'd have to look it up,
I just recently threw away all my books, manuals, etc. figuring I have
been retired long enough that I'd not ever need them again.


Well, I may end up running a metal conduit along side to get the
shielding for whatever data wire I run out there.
When I was in TCOM, we microwaved everything, so maybe I'll just do
that. :-)

There is that option, as well as WIFI with the right antennae's.

Wifi _is_ microwave. It runs 2.5 or 5 GHz, both of which are solidly
in the microwave range.


Where is the warning for radiation?

The same place it is on your cell phone, another microwave device.

Microwaves travel by line of sight.

And you think that wifi works over the horizon? Or perhaps you think
that "line of sight" means something other than what it actually
means.

See how ridiculous this is all getting?

Yeah, the truth always seems ridiculous to crackpots.

https://www.fcc.gov/engineering-tech...q/rf-safety#Q1
defines microwaves as being RF emissions from roughly 1 GHz to 30 GHz.

https://www.fcc.gov/general/license-...-public-safety
states that 802.11n uses 2.4 GHz or 5 GHz.

If you think that that is "ridiculous" you might want to show the FCC
their error. I am sure that they will be delighted to recieve your
wisdom.


We
have installed systems at low cost that were acceptable over several
miles.

A wired system might need a signal booster/repeater depending on the
total conduit feet run. I'd be tempted to run an above ground test
setup with a computer at the other end plugged into the power supply
in that bldg and run a speed test via software and see if there are
little to no problems.

Signal booster? Repeater? You really are out of touch. Twisted pair
ethernet is rated for 100 meters with timing being the limiting
factor. You can't extend it with a signal booster or repeater. The
correct means of extending the range is to use a switch and another
100 meter run (hubs don't exist for anything above 10baseT--100baseTX
and gigabit are always switched). If you need an uninterrupted run
longer than 100 meters you need to go to fiber for that run. However
running from a house to a garage should not be 100 meters unless it's
a very large property.


You are full of crap.
https://www.amazon.com/TRENDnet-Repe...signal+booster
One of many Price has dropped dramatically. From years ago.

Geezus, you don't even know what the Hell you're looking at. That is
a POWER OVER ETHERNET extender. What it _amplifies_ is the _power_.
The Ethernet signal is transferred by a switch. If you don't know
what a "switch" is in this context you really should learn before
making more of a fool of yourself. That device has an internal 2 port
switch.

Can't extend it Eh?

https://www.amazon.com/NETGEAR-DS108.../dp/B00000J4L5

100Mbps hub also useful as a type 2 repeater.

A long obsolete device. But you are correct, I had forgotten that
100baseT could be extended to 200 meters with a hub. You can't get to
300 with that device though.

This is all small business/HO type equipment. Also available in the
High end systems.

Sorry you are having such a problems with this but when I hit the
switch for my computer tonight this subject with you is over.

Right, sure it is.

People, don't trust this bozo. He talks a fancy game but he's stuck
in the '60s.

On Sun, 03 Jun 2018 00:21:00 -0700, OFWW
wrote:

On Sun, 03 Jun 2018 02:50:37 -0400, J. Clarke
wrote:

On Sat, 02 Jun 2018 23:29:06 -0700, OFWW
wrote:

On Sun, 03 Jun 2018 01:02:59 -0400, J. Clarke
wrote:

On Sat, 02 Jun 2018 21:37:33 -0700, OFWW
wrote:

On Sat, 02 Jun 2018 22:41:44 -0400, J. Clarke
wrote:

On Sun, 03 Jun 2018 02:10:39 GMT, Puckdropper
wrote:

-MIKE- wrote in news
On 6/2/18 10:11 AM, Puckdropper wrote:

My most recent wiring project was running outdoor rated CAT6 out to
the garage. You're already digging for one set of cable, might it be
worth digging for another? (Cat6 is easy to terminate, just use a
punch down connector and a decent punch tool.)

You can't run network cable close to power cable, though, unless you
take certain precautions. Parallel runs are a bad thing, but if you
must go close to power cables you can enclose the cable in a grounded
pipe. I didn't run in to these problems with my cable run, so I
didn't research them further.

Puckdropper


My buddy is an IT guru and he told me to run CAT10 with the AC and I'd
be fine.



I wasn't aware CAT10 was a thing yet. AFAICT, they're only up to CAT7.

A quick search (I'm not an expert, not even claiming to be) doesn't show
any results for CAT10. Wonder if he meant something different?

FWIW, I'd put the LAN cables in a different conduit as well. You know
that LAN standards will evolve for a while longer and you might decide 20
years down the road it's worth upgrading to faster cable. It'd be easier
to pull the cables out if all that's there is LAN and you don't have
another cable you need to stay put.

While I agree that it's good to have the cables separated, I would be
very surprised if anything above 10GB/sec was common for home use in
20 years. The trend is to wifi, not faster wired networks.

Actually you need a lot more if you are doing multiple TV's on the
Net, computers, etc.

A lot more than TEN BILLION BITS PER SECOND?

I should have typed 10Gbps. and a bit is not a byte.

Nobody said it was. Show us that a lot more than that is needed in a
home network.

I have High speed WIFI necessary because things
move around here a lot, plus we can use it in the back yard and
garage. With the grand kids here and online video games plus the video
interaction you need a good home backbone, and I can certainly tell
the difference between hardwired network to my HO computer verse wifi
to laptops, phones and tablets.

How old is your wifi? If it's not 802.11n at least, it's time to
upgrade.

I always have the latest, and the integration is possible on mine as
well so I have full usability on the High and low freqs at the same
time for faster throughput. While the data lines are 1gig, the
backbone of my switch is high to all the 1 gig on more than one line
at a time.

On Fiber optics 1 to 100gig is easily possible.

Want to play Name that Tune?

You're claiming that your one gig wifi can't handle 4K TV? You
definitely _are_ lying about something.

I didn't say that and you did not answer by question about what makes
you think you are actually seeing 4K video?

Well, let's see, the TV shows me a little icon that says that it's
showing 4K. But what does it know?

I just opened this post to say I am heading off to bed and by computer
is being shut down, as is this thread with you. HAND

On Sat, 02 Jun 2018 23:42:50 -0700, OFWW
wrote:

On Sun, 03 Jun 2018 01:20:55 -0400, J. Clarke
wrote:

On Sat, 02 Jun 2018 21:46:53 -0700, OFWW
wrote:

On Sat, 02 Jun 2018 23:40:02 -0400, wrote:

On Sat, 2 Jun 2018 22:23:54 -0500, -MIKE-
wrote:

On 6/2/18 9:41 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
On Sun, 03 Jun 2018 02:10:39 GMT, Puckdropper
wrote:

-MIKE- wrote in news
On 6/2/18 10:11 AM, Puckdropper wrote:

My most recent wiring project was running outdoor rated CAT6 out to
the garage. You're already digging for one set of cable, might it be
worth digging for another? (Cat6 is easy to terminate, just use a
punch down connector and a decent punch tool.)

You can't run network cable close to power cable, though, unless you
take certain precautions. Parallel runs are a bad thing, but if you
must go close to power cables you can enclose the cable in a grounded
pipe. I didn't run in to these problems with my cable run, so I
didn't research them further.

Puckdropper


My buddy is an IT guru and he told me to run CAT10 with the AC and I'd
be fine.



I wasn't aware CAT10 was a thing yet. AFAICT, they're only up to CAT7.

A quick search (I'm not an expert, not even claiming to be) doesn't show
any results for CAT10. Wonder if he meant something different?

FWIW, I'd put the LAN cables in a different conduit as well. You know
that LAN standards will evolve for a while longer and you might decide 20
years down the road it's worth upgrading to faster cable. It'd be easier
to pull the cables out if all that's there is LAN and you don't have
another cable you need to stay put.

While I agree that it's good to have the cables separated, I would be
very surprised if anything above 10GB/sec was common for home use in
20 years. The trend is to wifi, not faster wired networks.


My guy says the trend will be back to wired, because wireless is getting
too clogged up.

I don't believe that at all. Antenna diversity and MIMO solve these
problems in all but the most dense living situations.

Wired is still faster and more reliable and will be for the foreseeable
future or until they find new frequencies. :-)

There is such a thing as "fast enough". We have exactly one wired link
in our house (that the cable company put in), basically because
there's no point in adding any more.

Wait till you see a decent fiber optic system and the possible speeds
and want to run 4k TV on wire for viewing new movies, especially on
more than one TV at a time. with full sound, using limited compression
and loss of musical tones.

I have no trouble running 4K TV over the built-in wifi in my TV. What
leads you to believe that is has some enormous bandwidth demand?


On cable networks they do not have 4K options in most any area. Our
local Cable does not have 4K video anything, any channel, local or
remote and has no current plans to do so. And Fibre Optics is not yet
avail to residences here.

Silly me. I thought you actually had some _experience_ running 4K
over a network with all your Heap Big Cisco Certified Expertise.

On Direct TV I have two 4k Systems which is only available on 3
channels and I cannot run more than three TV's at the same time
without the system locking the rest out. The latest Genie is
unreliable on 4K

That's nice. What of it?

So while you might have a 4k TV, what makes you think you are actually
seeing 4K videos or movies?

The fact that the TV is telling me that they are 4K.

You seem to assume that cable companies are the only sources of
content.

As for "possible speeds", other than bragging rights what do these
"possible speeds" get you?


Greater detail in anything you do,

How do these "possible speeds" give me more detail in Word or Excel or
Photoshop?

less waiting time for anything.

Less than what? I don't notice any waiting time for much of anything.

Also the ability to video conference with the entire family at once
without stepping on each other.

If the entire family can't video conference over standard wifi then
you must have more family than a Fortune 100 financial services
company has employees, because this has not been a problem at work
where everybody conferences over wifi.

Of course with the way my ears are going.

On 6/3/18 12:08 AM, J. Clarke wrote:
On Sat, 02 Jun 2018 21:41:25 -0700, OFWW
wrote:

On Sat, 2 Jun 2018 22:23:54 -0500, -MIKE-
wrote:

On 6/2/18 9:41 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
On Sun, 03 Jun 2018 02:10:39 GMT, Puckdropper
wrote:

-MIKE- wrote in news
On 6/2/18 10:11 AM, Puckdropper wrote:

My most recent wiring project was running outdoor rated CAT6 out to
the garage. You're already digging for one set of cable, might it be
worth digging for another? (Cat6 is easy to terminate, just use a
punch down connector and a decent punch tool.)

You can't run network cable close to power cable, though, unless you
take certain precautions. Parallel runs are a bad thing, but if you
must go close to power cables you can enclose the cable in a grounded
pipe. I didn't run in to these problems with my cable run, so I
didn't research them further.

Puckdropper


My buddy is an IT guru and he told me to run CAT10 with the AC and I'd
be fine.



I wasn't aware CAT10 was a thing yet. AFAICT, they're only up to CAT7.

A quick search (I'm not an expert, not even claiming to be) doesn't show
any results for CAT10. Wonder if he meant something different?

FWIW, I'd put the LAN cables in a different conduit as well. You know
that LAN standards will evolve for a while longer and you might decide 20
years down the road it's worth upgrading to faster cable. It'd be easier
to pull the cables out if all that's there is LAN and you don't have
another cable you need to stay put.

While I agree that it's good to have the cables separated, I would be
very surprised if anything above 10GB/sec was common for home use in
20 years. The trend is to wifi, not faster wired networks.


My guy says the trend will be back to wired, because wireless is getting
too clogged up.
Wired is still faster and more reliable and will be for the foreseeable
future or until they find new frequencies. :-)

He is right. Especially when you find out how easy it is to hack WIFI
to the homes and businesses around you, especially on those that
haven't a clue about security. Years ago I used to connect up and
print out messages on their printers to clue them in.

Wired is faster, but how fast do you NEED? I see no evidence of a
trend to wired for residential use.


All I know is when I ran Ethernet out to a range extender in my garage,
I no longer got any dropouts or buffering. I went from getting low
double-digit Mbps to 400+.

I also went wired on one of our TVs, which is right next to the router
and it improved its performance greatly. Of course, this could be a
limitation in the TVs wifi intake performance.

Wired devices aren't competing for channels either, right?


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
www.mikedrums.com

On 2018-06-03 12:11 AM, J. Clarke wrote:
On Sat, 02 Jun 2018 22:34:23 -0700, OFWW
wrote:

snip

There is that option, as well as WIFI with the right antennae's.

Wifi _is_ microwave. It runs 2.5 or 5 GHz, both of which are solidly
in the microwave range.

We
have installed systems at low cost that were acceptable over several
miles.

A wired system might need a signal booster/repeater depending on the
total conduit feet run. I'd be tempted to run an above ground test
setup with a computer at the other end plugged into the power supply
in that bldg and run a speed test via software and see if there are
little to no problems.

Signal booster? Repeater? You really are out of touch. Twisted pair
ethernet is rated for 100 meters with timing being the limiting
factor. You can't extend it with a signal booster or repeater. The
correct means of extending the range is to use a switch and another
100 meter run (hubs don't exist for anything above 10baseT--100baseTX
and gigabit are always switched). If you need an uninterrupted run
longer than 100 meters you need to go to fiber for that run. However
running from a house to a garage should not be 100 meters unless it's
a very large property.

I might have problems with being a bit overcautious here.

There are a number of extenders on the market that extend Cat6 POE over
long distances and I have used a number of them successfully.

http://www.veracityglobal.com/produc...e-devices.aspx

https://ethernetextender.com/cat6-repeater/


--
The difference between pizza and your opinion is
I asked for the pizza.

On Sun, 3 Jun 2018 09:35:23 -0600, Idlehands
wrote:

On 2018-06-03 12:11 AM, J. Clarke wrote:
On Sat, 02 Jun 2018 22:34:23 -0700, OFWW
wrote:

snip

There is that option, as well as WIFI with the right antennae's.

Wifi _is_ microwave. It runs 2.5 or 5 GHz, both of which are solidly
in the microwave range.

We
have installed systems at low cost that were acceptable over several
miles.

A wired system might need a signal booster/repeater depending on the
total conduit feet run. I'd be tempted to run an above ground test
setup with a computer at the other end plugged into the power supply
in that bldg and run a speed test via software and see if there are
little to no problems.

Signal booster? Repeater? You really are out of touch. Twisted pair
ethernet is rated for 100 meters with timing being the limiting
factor. You can't extend it with a signal booster or repeater. The
correct means of extending the range is to use a switch and another
100 meter run (hubs don't exist for anything above 10baseT--100baseTX
and gigabit are always switched). If you need an uninterrupted run
longer than 100 meters you need to go to fiber for that run. However
running from a house to a garage should not be 100 meters unless it's
a very large property.

I might have problems with being a bit overcautious here.

There are a number of extenders on the market that extend Cat6 POE over
long distances and I have used a number of them successfully.

http://www.veracityglobal.com/produc...e-devices.aspx

https://ethernetextender.com/cat6-repeater/

That's POWER OVER ETHERNET. And those extenders use a switch to
extend the span of the Ethernet. They don't "boost the signal", they
take packets in, adjust the address for the new segment, and send
packets out.

On Sun, 03 Jun 2018 12:09:54 -0400, J. Clarke
wrote:

On Sun, 3 Jun 2018 09:35:23 -0600, Idlehands
wrote:

On 2018-06-03 12:11 AM, J. Clarke wrote:
On Sat, 02 Jun 2018 22:34:23 -0700, OFWW
wrote:

snip

There is that option, as well as WIFI with the right antennae's.

Wifi _is_ microwave. It runs 2.5 or 5 GHz, both of which are solidly
in the microwave range.

We
have installed systems at low cost that were acceptable over several
miles.

A wired system might need a signal booster/repeater depending on the
total conduit feet run. I'd be tempted to run an above ground test
setup with a computer at the other end plugged into the power supply
in that bldg and run a speed test via software and see if there are
little to no problems.

Signal booster? Repeater? You really are out of touch. Twisted pair
ethernet is rated for 100 meters with timing being the limiting
factor. You can't extend it with a signal booster or repeater. The
correct means of extending the range is to use a switch and another
100 meter run (hubs don't exist for anything above 10baseT--100baseTX
and gigabit are always switched). If you need an uninterrupted run
longer than 100 meters you need to go to fiber for that run. However
running from a house to a garage should not be 100 meters unless it's
a very large property.

I might have problems with being a bit overcautious here.

There are a number of extenders on the market that extend Cat6 POE over
long distances and I have used a number of them successfully.

http://www.veracityglobal.com/produc...e-devices.aspx

https://ethernetextender.com/cat6-repeater/

That's POWER OVER ETHERNET. And those extenders use a switch to
extend the span of the Ethernet. They don't "boost the signal", they
take packets in, adjust the address for the new segment, and send
packets out.

Looking further, some of them package the Ethernet packets in some
other signalling to get extended range, and if you look at the specs,
they kill the crap out of performance.

I didn't say that it wasn't possible to make some kind of device that
is not an Ethernet device that can transport Ethernet packets. If you
are willing to accept latency and low bandwidth you can carry Ethernet
packets on a piece of paper in your pocket. But doing so is not
compliant with any of the Ethernet standards so it is not Ethernet.

Further, ALL of the things you point to create a new segment.

You really should learn how things work before you start trying to
prove that somebody is wrong.

On Sat, 02 Jun 2018 23:44:49 -0700, OFWW
wrote:

On Sun, 03 Jun 2018 02:04:58 -0400, J. Clarke
wrote:

On Sat, 02 Jun 2018 22:25:03 -0700, OFWW
wrote:

On Sun, 03 Jun 2018 00:38:01 -0400, J. Clarke
wrote:

On Sat, 02 Jun 2018 21:03:30 -0700, OFWW
wrote:

On Sat, 2 Jun 2018 19:53:25 -0500, -MIKE-
wrote:

On 6/2/18 7:37 PM, OFWW wrote:
On Sat, 2 Jun 2018 16:26:12 -0500, -MIKE-
wrote:

On 6/2/18 10:11 AM, Puckdropper wrote:
-MIKE- wrote in news

Funnier part... finding this pipe under the pad distracted me so much
that I forgot that I had already figured all this out. :-)
I can't use that path because it I would have to take a hard right
turn and then another left to go around the end of the septic system's
leach field. I don't like the prospect of pulling #6 through those
bends on a 100'+ run.

On the far edge of the driveway is a row of 80ft Poplars. Because I
don't want to dig through their major roots, I can't use a ditch-witch
to trench that path.

At the corner of the garage where I intended to start the underground
conduit, there is an expansion joint in the parking area pad with
asphalt expansion joint filler. The path along that joint is far
enough away from the leach bed and far enough from the tree roots that
I can go straight back along that expansion joint.
All I have to do is rent a concrete saw and make one cut a few inches
from the existing expansion joint and then fill it back in with
Quickcrete when I'm done laying the conduit.

That will be easier than hand digging a trench around 3-4" tree roots
and trying to weave the conduit over and under them.



My most recent wiring project was running outdoor rated CAT6 out to the
garage. You're already digging for one set of cable, might it be worth
digging for another? (Cat6 is easy to terminate, just use a punch down
connector and a decent punch tool.)

You can't run network cable close to power cable, though, unless you take
certain precautions. Parallel runs are a bad thing, but if you must go
close to power cables you can enclose the cable in a grounded pipe. I
didn't run in to these problems with my cable run, so I didn't research
them further.

Puckdropper


My buddy is an IT guru and he told me to run CAT10 with the AC and I'd
be fine.

I am Cisco certified, it is not recommended.


60 cycle interference?

In is unsafe to take a chance with high voltage crossing over to a
consumer device. There is also the electromagnetic effect, especially
on an A/C system with its varying loads. On systems with variable
speed drives there are multiple problems, and it is also a Code
violation in most places. It is not even recommended to mix land line
phone lines in the walls, or conduit, and any box.

The twist in CAT cables knocks out a lot of noise but not all noise.

There are more technical reasons as well, but I'd have to look it up,
I just recently threw away all my books, manuals, etc. figuring I have
been retired long enough that I'd not ever need them again.

The code violation is the real issue. A 250 Mhz circuit is not going
to even see 60Hz unless it's of such magnitude that it generates an
arcover in the isolation transformers.

Note that phone line considerations are different from data. 60Hz is
audible--if you've got 60Hz interference on a phone line you can
_hear_ it. A 250 MHz data line is another story.

It isn't as cut n dry as you might think. Run a scope on the signal
look for the interference. If what you said were true you wouldn't
need a certain amount twists per a foot of Wire.

Twisted pair ethernet is unidirectional on a given pair. Gigabit uses
four pairs, two carrying signal one way and two carrying it the other
way. It's crosstalk on those pairs that is the major driver in the
spec.

Why the shielding?
Sheilding handles the differential mode, while the twist handles the
common mode

On Sun, 03 Jun 2018 00:11:04 -0700, OFWW
wrote:

On Sun, 03 Jun 2018 02:11:21 -0400, J. Clarke
wrote:

On Sat, 02 Jun 2018 22:34:23 -0700, OFWW
wrote:

On Sat, 2 Jun 2018 23:41:57 -0500, -MIKE-
wrote:

On 6/2/18 11:03 PM, OFWW wrote:
On Sat, 2 Jun 2018 19:53:25 -0500, -MIKE-
wrote:

On 6/2/18 7:37 PM, OFWW wrote:
On Sat, 2 Jun 2018 16:26:12 -0500, -MIKE-
wrote:

On 6/2/18 10:11 AM, Puckdropper wrote:
-MIKE- wrote in news

Funnier part... finding this pipe under the pad distracted me so much
that I forgot that I had already figured all this out. :-)
I can't use that path because it I would have to take a hard right
turn and then another left to go around the end of the septic system's
leach field. I don't like the prospect of pulling #6 through those
bends on a 100'+ run.

On the far edge of the driveway is a row of 80ft Poplars. Because I
don't want to dig through their major roots, I can't use a ditch-witch
to trench that path.

At the corner of the garage where I intended to start the underground
conduit, there is an expansion joint in the parking area pad with
asphalt expansion joint filler. The path along that joint is far
enough away from the leach bed and far enough from the tree roots that
I can go straight back along that expansion joint.
All I have to do is rent a concrete saw and make one cut a few inches
from the existing expansion joint and then fill it back in with
Quickcrete when I'm done laying the conduit.

That will be easier than hand digging a trench around 3-4" tree roots
and trying to weave the conduit over and under them.



My most recent wiring project was running outdoor rated CAT6 out to the
garage. You're already digging for one set of cable, might it be worth
digging for another? (Cat6 is easy to terminate, just use a punch down
connector and a decent punch tool.)

You can't run network cable close to power cable, though, unless you take
certain precautions. Parallel runs are a bad thing, but if you must go
close to power cables you can enclose the cable in a grounded pipe. I
didn't run in to these problems with my cable run, so I didn't research
them further.

Puckdropper


My buddy is an IT guru and he told me to run CAT10 with the AC and I'd
be fine.

I am Cisco certified, it is not recommended.


60 cycle interference?

In is unsafe to take a chance with high voltage crossing over to a
consumer device. There is also the electromagnetic effect, especially
on an A/C system with its varying loads. On systems with variable
speed drives there are multiple problems, and it is also a Code
violation in most places. It is not even recommended to mix land line
phone lines in the walls, or conduit, and any box.

The twist in CAT cables knocks out a lot of noise but not all noise.

There are more technical reasons as well, but I'd have to look it up,
I just recently threw away all my books, manuals, etc. figuring I have
been retired long enough that I'd not ever need them again.


Well, I may end up running a metal conduit along side to get the
shielding for whatever data wire I run out there.
When I was in TCOM, we microwaved everything, so maybe I'll just do
that. :-)

There is that option, as well as WIFI with the right antennae's.

Wifi _is_ microwave. It runs 2.5 or 5 GHz, both of which are solidly
in the microwave range.


Where is the warning for radiation?
Microwaves travel by line of sight.

See how ridiculous this is all getting?

We
have installed systems at low cost that were acceptable over several
miles.

A wired system might need a signal booster/repeater depending on the
total conduit feet run. I'd be tempted to run an above ground test
setup with a computer at the other end plugged into the power supply
in that bldg and run a speed test via software and see if there are
little to no problems.

Signal booster? Repeater? You really are out of touch. Twisted pair
ethernet is rated for 100 meters with timing being the limiting
factor. You can't extend it with a signal booster or repeater. The
correct means of extending the range is to use a switch and another
100 meter run (hubs don't exist for anything above 10baseT--100baseTX
and gigabit are always switched). If you need an uninterrupted run
longer than 100 meters you need to go to fiber for that run. However
running from a house to a garage should not be 100 meters unless it's
a very large property.


You are full of crap.
https://www.amazon.com/TRENDnet-Repe...signal+booster
One of many Price has dropped dramatically. From years ago.

Basically a 2 port switch

Can't extend it Eh?

https://www.amazon.com/NETGEAR-DS108.../dp/B00000J4L5

Technically a switch, not a hub

100Mbps hub also useful as a type 2 repeater.

This is all small business/HO type equipment. Also available in the
High end systems.

Sorry you are having such a problems with this but when I hit the
switch for my computer tonight this subject with you is over.

I might have problems with being a bit overcautious here.

On Sun, 03 Jun 2018 04:14:30 -0400, J. Clarke
wrote:

Geezus, you don't even know what the Hell you're looking at. That is
a POWER OVER ETHERNET extender. What it _amplifies_ is the _power_.
The Ethernet signal is transferred by a switch. If you don't know
what a "switch" is in this context you really should learn before
making more of a fool of yourself. That device has an internal 2 port
switch.

Well Mr. Bright boy, when the power dies, the signal dies with it one
wired systems.

All wire is is an elongated resistor that carries power. Try running
super long extension cords and watch the voltage drop.

One can only have so many repeaters in line, know why?
Those all tell you your signal now can reach 600 hundred feet. Twice
what you said was possible.

And you have a whole lot of learning to do regarding microwave's and I
am not about to waste further time with you on this.

On Sun, 03 Jun 2018 14:23:14 -0400, Clare Snyder
wrote:

On Sat, 02 Jun 2018 23:44:49 -0700, OFWW
wrote:

On Sun, 03 Jun 2018 02:04:58 -0400, J. Clarke
wrote:

On Sat, 02 Jun 2018 22:25:03 -0700, OFWW
wrote:

On Sun, 03 Jun 2018 00:38:01 -0400, J. Clarke
wrote:

On Sat, 02 Jun 2018 21:03:30 -0700, OFWW
wrote:

On Sat, 2 Jun 2018 19:53:25 -0500, -MIKE-
wrote:

On 6/2/18 7:37 PM, OFWW wrote:
On Sat, 2 Jun 2018 16:26:12 -0500, -MIKE-
wrote:

On 6/2/18 10:11 AM, Puckdropper wrote:
-MIKE- wrote in news

Funnier part... finding this pipe under the pad distracted me so much
that I forgot that I had already figured all this out. :-)
I can't use that path because it I would have to take a hard right
turn and then another left to go around the end of the septic system's
leach field. I don't like the prospect of pulling #6 through those
bends on a 100'+ run.

On the far edge of the driveway is a row of 80ft Poplars. Because I
don't want to dig through their major roots, I can't use a ditch-witch
to trench that path.

At the corner of the garage where I intended to start the underground
conduit, there is an expansion joint in the parking area pad with
asphalt expansion joint filler. The path along that joint is far
enough away from the leach bed and far enough from the tree roots that
I can go straight back along that expansion joint.
All I have to do is rent a concrete saw and make one cut a few inches
from the existing expansion joint and then fill it back in with
Quickcrete when I'm done laying the conduit.

That will be easier than hand digging a trench around 3-4" tree roots
and trying to weave the conduit over and under them.



My most recent wiring project was running outdoor rated CAT6 out to the
garage. You're already digging for one set of cable, might it be worth
digging for another? (Cat6 is easy to terminate, just use a punch down
connector and a decent punch tool.)

You can't run network cable close to power cable, though, unless you take
certain precautions. Parallel runs are a bad thing, but if you must go
close to power cables you can enclose the cable in a grounded pipe. I
didn't run in to these problems with my cable run, so I didn't research
them further.

Puckdropper


My buddy is an IT guru and he told me to run CAT10 with the AC and I'd
be fine.

I am Cisco certified, it is not recommended.


60 cycle interference?

In is unsafe to take a chance with high voltage crossing over to a
consumer device. There is also the electromagnetic effect, especially
on an A/C system with its varying loads. On systems with variable
speed drives there are multiple problems, and it is also a Code
violation in most places. It is not even recommended to mix land line
phone lines in the walls, or conduit, and any box.

The twist in CAT cables knocks out a lot of noise but not all noise.

There are more technical reasons as well, but I'd have to look it up,
I just recently threw away all my books, manuals, etc. figuring I have
been retired long enough that I'd not ever need them again.

The code violation is the real issue. A 250 Mhz circuit is not going
to even see 60Hz unless it's of such magnitude that it generates an
arcover in the isolation transformers.

Note that phone line considerations are different from data. 60Hz is
audible--if you've got 60Hz interference on a phone line you can
_hear_ it. A 250 MHz data line is another story.

It isn't as cut n dry as you might think. Run a scope on the signal
look for the interference. If what you said were true you wouldn't
need a certain amount twists per a foot of Wire.

Twisted pair ethernet is unidirectional on a given pair. Gigabit uses
four pairs, two carrying signal one way and two carrying it the other
way. It's crosstalk on those pairs that is the major driver in the
spec.

Why the shielding?
Sheilding handles the differential mode, while the twist handles the
common mode

With high bandwidth applications on the rise and network systems
venturing into new areas such as factory environments, the need for
shielded Cat 6 cable has also increased. In these new areas of
installation, the environment in which the network cable is run has a
large amount of EMI (Electro-Magnetic Interference). Although Cat 6
cables have improved cable twist to handle gigabit Ethernet and reject
noise, this by itself is not enough for environments that have high
EMI. Using a shielded Cat 6 cable will help in these high EMI
installations.

Which I had mentioned earlier is one of the reasons for separating
main power lines from network cabling.

But enough of this, I am here for the word working, not the trap of
arguments. I am not pointing this at you either.

On Sun, 03 Jun 2018 02:48:26 -0400, J. Clarke
wrote:

SNIPP

If he only got 2 Mb/sec out of modern Ethernet he's got a computer in
the middle there purposely designed to be a throttle.

Gigabit is just not that fragile. It has been shown to run on barbed
wire.

8 strands of barbed wire I assume?????
It will NOT downgrade it's speed as required to maintain connectivity.
Instead it will fail and retry, and fail again, untill it manages to
successfully pass the packet. This will NOT result in gagabit speeds -
likely even less than 10BT speeds.

SNIPP
I also still have a few routers, switches and stuff, Cisco commercial
products, wanna buy them and get them off my hands?


I've got gigabit stuff that's technically obsolete too - but would
still make someone a DANDY network

About $20,000 worth, at the very minimum when new - and it is NOT
CISCO.
I suspect that they are well and truly obsolete.

In any case, nobody is going to be running a T1 from their house to
their garage on a CAT6 cable. What's going to be running on it, in
2018, is gigabit Ethernet.


Or even. more commonly, a 100Mb connection (still WAY faster than
most internets)
Of course not, the switchgear costs alone would be prohibitive, plus
the cabling. But he could run fiber optics and never have any of the
problems associated with hard wire systems.

What would justify the expense?

The only thing that would justify fiber to the shop is EMI issues -
and they would have to be BAD - unless you just happen to have a bunch
of fiber net equipment gathering dust in the "sandbox" and you want to
play - - - -

If my creds are so important to you then you can call Cisco and see
what all I was certified for at the time. I am not keeping my certs
updated because I am retired. Get it?

And the equipment is leaving you WAY behind as well.
I never got CISCO certified because you could go broke just
maintaining currency with their new product.

I did not say "creds", I said "cred". You're topping it the expert
here when it's clear that you are far from up to date.

I'm basically "retired" for a year and I know I'm already far from up
to date with current technology. I gave up trying to keep up 5 years
ago when I offloaded the network management to a third party
consultant - who also prooved to be less than current and has now been
replaced by a larger and more proficient network consulting/management
firm. I wouldn't know where to start with the current setup in the new
insurance office facility. It's all enterprise grade stuff surplussed
out from Blackberry's downsizing - well over 1/4 million dollars worth
of network switches, routers, servers etc

The "obsolete" gear I have sitting here is what came out of the 2
offices when they moved in together in the new facility - virtually
all less than 5 years old

SNIPP
Explaining or rationalizing why it is important to do it right in the
first place.

What is "right" and what is adequate to the task are two different
things.

Overkill in IT installations is RAMPANT - particularly for home
installs.

SNIPP

Well that's all well and good. So how much measured degradtation have
you experiences in wires run from people's houses to people's garages
carrying gigabit?

I didn't do houses expect for friends. But the ground field for the
bldg is a big issue in such cases which I addressed in another post.

Apples - oranges - Turnips.

Yeah, you addressed it but didn't give any reason to believe that you
are familiar with transformer-coupled network interfaces which are
standard with modern Ethernet but apparently didn't exist the last
time you dealt with Ethernet.

If I gave you my full resume from all the years I've worked you would
probably call me a liar too. Oh well. what's a guy to do?

I don't care about your damned resume. You remind me of the mainframe
types who have been in IT for 50 years but can't figure out how to
work Excel.

About 27 years and I'm already a dynasaur - and I've never been
involved with anything outside the IBM compatible PC world, except for
the old 6809 Tandy world. (a bit of Banyan Vines, a bit of Unix Xenix,
a bit of Nohell, a touch of OS9 on the 6809 Trash80) - but
functionally illiterate outside the MS DOS / Windows world.

On Sat, 02 Jun 2018 21:03:30 -0700, OFWW
wrote:

On Sat, 2 Jun 2018 19:53:25 -0500, -MIKE-
wrote:

On 6/2/18 7:37 PM, OFWW wrote:
On Sat, 2 Jun 2018 16:26:12 -0500, -MIKE-
wrote:

On 6/2/18 10:11 AM, Puckdropper wrote:
-MIKE- wrote in news

Funnier part... finding this pipe under the pad distracted me so much
that I forgot that I had already figured all this out. :-)
I can't use that path because it I would have to take a hard right
turn and then another left to go around the end of the septic system's
leach field. I don't like the prospect of pulling #6 through those
bends on a 100'+ run.

On the far edge of the driveway is a row of 80ft Poplars. Because I
don't want to dig through their major roots, I can't use a ditch-witch
to trench that path.

At the corner of the garage where I intended to start the underground
conduit, there is an expansion joint in the parking area pad with
asphalt expansion joint filler. The path along that joint is far
enough away from the leach bed and far enough from the tree roots that
I can go straight back along that expansion joint.
All I have to do is rent a concrete saw and make one cut a few inches
from the existing expansion joint and then fill it back in with
Quickcrete when I'm done laying the conduit.

That will be easier than hand digging a trench around 3-4" tree roots
and trying to weave the conduit over and under them.



My most recent wiring project was running outdoor rated CAT6 out to the
garage. You're already digging for one set of cable, might it be worth
digging for another? (Cat6 is easy to terminate, just use a punch down
connector and a decent punch tool.)

You can't run network cable close to power cable, though, unless you take
certain precautions. Parallel runs are a bad thing, but if you must go
close to power cables you can enclose the cable in a grounded pipe. I
didn't run in to these problems with my cable run, so I didn't research
them further.

Puckdropper


My buddy is an IT guru and he told me to run CAT10 with the AC and I'd
be fine.

I am Cisco certified, it is not recommended.


60 cycle interference?

In is unsafe to take a chance with high voltage crossing over to a
consumer device. There is also the electromagnetic effect, especially
on an A/C system with its varying loads. On systems with variable
speed drives there are multiple problems, and it is also a Code
violation in most places. It is not even recommended to mix land line
phone lines in the walls, or conduit, and any box.

Then I suppose they don't really make these things.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Carlon-2-Gang-Dual-Voltage-Box-and-Bracket-SC200DVR/100146034


The twist in CAT cables knocks out a lot of noise but not all noise.

There are more technical reasons as well, but I'd have to look it up,
I just recently threw away all my books, manuals, etc. figuring I have
been retired long enough that I'd not ever need them again.

On Sun, 03 Jun 2018 03:36:52 -0400, J. Clarke
wrote:

SNIPP
Then you don't get what noisy lines are all about, and what can create
them. Interference. Also just pulling too hard on Ethernet cabling can
stretch the wire messing things up.

So tells us of a documented case in which "pulling too hard on the
cable" or "interference" reduced the transfer rate for 1000BaseTX to 2
mb/sec. You're saying "can happen". So show us when it _did_ happen
or you're just spreading FUD.

If you pull too hard on a gigabit cable and damage the cable it will
NOT autonegotiate down.

I have seen it slow the network down SIGNIFICANTLY due to dropped
packets and retries - to well below a 2mb equivalent. Any one
conductor suffering damage in Gb ethernet WILL slow the network down.
Or kill it DEAD (at least the one segment)

A kinked Cat5E cable will fail the quality test for GB ethernet.
Running the cables parallel to a high current AC conductor will do the
same.



It won't slow down the bit-rate - but it will definitely cause
deterioration in the service via lost packets and retries, which
translates to a slower EFFECTIVE bit-rate.
SNIPPPPP

When talking 10BT /100BT, the troublesome auto-negotiation protocols
COULD downgrade a 100BT to 10BT, and often provided better throughput
on a reliable 10BT connection than on a flakey 100BT - but 10BT is "so
nineties"

On 2018-06-03 10:09 AM, J. Clarke wrote:
On Sun, 3 Jun 2018 09:35:23 -0600, Idlehands
wrote:

On 2018-06-03 12:11 AM, J. Clarke wrote:
On Sat, 02 Jun 2018 22:34:23 -0700, OFWW
wrote:

snip

There is that option, as well as WIFI with the right antennae's.

Wifi _is_ microwave. It runs 2.5 or 5 GHz, both of which are solidly
in the microwave range.

We
have installed systems at low cost that were acceptable over several
miles.

A wired system might need a signal booster/repeater depending on the
total conduit feet run. I'd be tempted to run an above ground test
setup with a computer at the other end plugged into the power supply
in that bldg and run a speed test via software and see if there are
little to no problems.

Signal booster? Repeater? You really are out of touch. Twisted pair
ethernet is rated for 100 meters with timing being the limiting
factor. You can't extend it with a signal booster or repeater. The
correct means of extending the range is to use a switch and another
100 meter run (hubs don't exist for anything above 10baseT--100baseTX
and gigabit are always switched). If you need an uninterrupted run
longer than 100 meters you need to go to fiber for that run. However
running from a house to a garage should not be 100 meters unless it's
a very large property.

I might have problems with being a bit overcautious here.

There are a number of extenders on the market that extend Cat6 POE over
long distances and I have used a number of them successfully.

http://www.veracityglobal.com/produc...e-devices.aspx

https://ethernetextender.com/cat6-repeater/

That's POWER OVER ETHERNET. And those extenders use a switch to
extend the span of the Ethernet. They don't "boost the signal", they
take packets in, adjust the address for the new segment, and send
packets out.


Data and power, no switch in the line, just the extender which powers
the POE device and sends data and are transparent to the data.



--
The difference between pizza and your opinion is
I asked for the pizza.

On 2018-06-03 10:25 AM, J. Clarke wrote:
On Sun, 03 Jun 2018 12:09:54 -0400, J. Clarke
wrote:

On Sun, 3 Jun 2018 09:35:23 -0600, Idlehands
wrote:

On 2018-06-03 12:11 AM, J. Clarke wrote:
On Sat, 02 Jun 2018 22:34:23 -0700, OFWW
wrote:

snip

There is that option, as well as WIFI with the right antennae's.

Wifi _is_ microwave. It runs 2.5 or 5 GHz, both of which are solidly
in the microwave range.

We
have installed systems at low cost that were acceptable over several
miles.

A wired system might need a signal booster/repeater depending on the
total conduit feet run. I'd be tempted to run an above ground test
setup with a computer at the other end plugged into the power supply
in that bldg and run a speed test via software and see if there are
little to no problems.

Signal booster? Repeater? You really are out of touch. Twisted pair
ethernet is rated for 100 meters with timing being the limiting
factor. You can't extend it with a signal booster or repeater. The
correct means of extending the range is to use a switch and another
100 meter run (hubs don't exist for anything above 10baseT--100baseTX
and gigabit are always switched). If you need an uninterrupted run
longer than 100 meters you need to go to fiber for that run. However
running from a house to a garage should not be 100 meters unless it's
a very large property.

I might have problems with being a bit overcautious here.

There are a number of extenders on the market that extend Cat6 POE over
long distances and I have used a number of them successfully.

http://www.veracityglobal.com/produc...e-devices.aspx

https://ethernetextender.com/cat6-repeater/

That's POWER OVER ETHERNET. And those extenders use a switch to
extend the span of the Ethernet. They don't "boost the signal", they
take packets in, adjust the address for the new segment, and send
packets out.

Looking further, some of them package the Ethernet packets in some
other signalling to get extended range, and if you look at the specs,
they kill the crap out of performance.

I didn't say that it wasn't possible to make some kind of device that
is not an Ethernet device that can transport Ethernet packets. If you
are willing to accept latency and low bandwidth you can carry Ethernet
packets on a piece of paper in your pocket. But doing so is not
compliant with any of the Ethernet standards so it is not Ethernet.

Further, ALL of the things you point to create a new segment.

You really should learn how things work before you start trying to
prove that somebody is wrong.



Capable of sending real time HD video at 30fps without latency, I do
know how things work and use them on a daily basis.

You should learn new technology before making your grand generalizations
about how things are.

--
The difference between pizza and your opinion is
I asked for the pizza.

On Sat, 2 Jun 2018 23:29:12 -0500, -MIKE-
wrote:

On 6/2/18 10:40 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 2 Jun 2018 22:23:54 -0500, -MIKE-
wrote:

On 6/2/18 9:41 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
On Sun, 03 Jun 2018 02:10:39 GMT, Puckdropper
wrote:

-MIKE- wrote in news
On 6/2/18 10:11 AM, Puckdropper wrote:

My most recent wiring project was running outdoor rated CAT6 out to
the garage. You're already digging for one set of cable, might it be
worth digging for another? (Cat6 is easy to terminate, just use a
punch down connector and a decent punch tool.)

You can't run network cable close to power cable, though, unless you
take certain precautions. Parallel runs are a bad thing, but if you
must go close to power cables you can enclose the cable in a grounded
pipe. I didn't run in to these problems with my cable run, so I
didn't research them further.

Puckdropper


My buddy is an IT guru and he told me to run CAT10 with the AC and I'd
be fine.



I wasn't aware CAT10 was a thing yet. AFAICT, they're only up to CAT7.

A quick search (I'm not an expert, not even claiming to be) doesn't show
any results for CAT10. Wonder if he meant something different?

FWIW, I'd put the LAN cables in a different conduit as well. You know
that LAN standards will evolve for a while longer and you might decide 20
years down the road it's worth upgrading to faster cable. It'd be easier
to pull the cables out if all that's there is LAN and you don't have
another cable you need to stay put.

While I agree that it's good to have the cables separated, I would be
very surprised if anything above 10GB/sec was common for home use in
20 years. The trend is to wifi, not faster wired networks.


My guy says the trend will be back to wired, because wireless is getting
too clogged up.

I don't believe that at all. Antenna diversity and MIMO solve these
problems in all but the most dense living situations.

Wired is still faster and more reliable and will be for the foreseeable
future or until they find new frequencies. :-)

What IS driving some people back to wired connections is SECURITY.
There are facilities where NO WIRELESS connections are allowed for
just that reason.

There is such a thing as "fast enough". We have exactly one wired link
in our house (that the cable company put in), basically because
there's no point in adding any more.



Add 30ft. to equation and it's not fast enough anymore.
I stream video to my garage/shop and it's not fast enough over wifi from
20ft. away.
We have the fastest internet in town and the fastest/fastest router.
When I ran Ethernet from the router to the garage through a wifi
extender, all of a sudden I'm getting 400mbps when I was only getting
50-100 from the router.

On Sat, 2 Jun 2018 23:29:12 -0500, -MIKE-
wrote:

On 6/2/18 10:40 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 2 Jun 2018 22:23:54 -0500, -MIKE-
wrote:

On 6/2/18 9:41 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
On Sun, 03 Jun 2018 02:10:39 GMT, Puckdropper
wrote:

-MIKE- wrote in news
On 6/2/18 10:11 AM, Puckdropper wrote:

My most recent wiring project was running outdoor rated CAT6 out to
the garage. You're already digging for one set of cable, might it be
worth digging for another? (Cat6 is easy to terminate, just use a
punch down connector and a decent punch tool.)

You can't run network cable close to power cable, though, unless you
take certain precautions. Parallel runs are a bad thing, but if you
must go close to power cables you can enclose the cable in a grounded
pipe. I didn't run in to these problems with my cable run, so I
didn't research them further.

Puckdropper


My buddy is an IT guru and he told me to run CAT10 with the AC and I'd
be fine.



I wasn't aware CAT10 was a thing yet. AFAICT, they're only up to CAT7.

A quick search (I'm not an expert, not even claiming to be) doesn't show
any results for CAT10. Wonder if he meant something different?

FWIW, I'd put the LAN cables in a different conduit as well. You know
that LAN standards will evolve for a while longer and you might decide 20
years down the road it's worth upgrading to faster cable. It'd be easier
to pull the cables out if all that's there is LAN and you don't have
another cable you need to stay put.

While I agree that it's good to have the cables separated, I would be
very surprised if anything above 10GB/sec was common for home use in
20 years. The trend is to wifi, not faster wired networks.


My guy says the trend will be back to wired, because wireless is getting
too clogged up.

I don't believe that at all. Antenna diversity and MIMO solve these
problems in all but the most dense living situations.

Wired is still faster and more reliable and will be for the foreseeable
future or until they find new frequencies. :-)

There is such a thing as "fast enough". We have exactly one wired link
in our house (that the cable company put in), basically because
there's no point in adding any more.


Add 30ft. to equation and it's not fast enough anymore.

Nonsense. 30+ feet, through walls and floors. Plenty fast enough for
High definition video and anything Internet.

I stream video to my garage/shop and it's not fast enough over wifi from
20ft. away.

You need a better router. Even the one from the cable company covers
my entire house. Three floors, five bedrooms, and 5K ft^2 (including
basement).

We have the fastest internet in town and the fastest/fastest router.
When I ran Ethernet from the router to the garage through a wifi
extender, all of a sudden I'm getting 400mbps when I was only getting
50-100 from the router.

Evidently not.

On Sat, 02 Jun 2018 21:46:53 -0700, OFWW
wrote:

On Sat, 02 Jun 2018 23:40:02 -0400, wrote:

On Sat, 2 Jun 2018 22:23:54 -0500, -MIKE-
wrote:

On 6/2/18 9:41 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
On Sun, 03 Jun 2018 02:10:39 GMT, Puckdropper
wrote:

-MIKE- wrote in news
On 6/2/18 10:11 AM, Puckdropper wrote:

My most recent wiring project was running outdoor rated CAT6 out to
the garage. You're already digging for one set of cable, might it be
worth digging for another? (Cat6 is easy to terminate, just use a
punch down connector and a decent punch tool.)

You can't run network cable close to power cable, though, unless you
take certain precautions. Parallel runs are a bad thing, but if you
must go close to power cables you can enclose the cable in a grounded
pipe. I didn't run in to these problems with my cable run, so I
didn't research them further.

Puckdropper


My buddy is an IT guru and he told me to run CAT10 with the AC and I'd
be fine.



I wasn't aware CAT10 was a thing yet. AFAICT, they're only up to CAT7.

A quick search (I'm not an expert, not even claiming to be) doesn't show
any results for CAT10. Wonder if he meant something different?

FWIW, I'd put the LAN cables in a different conduit as well. You know
that LAN standards will evolve for a while longer and you might decide 20
years down the road it's worth upgrading to faster cable. It'd be easier
to pull the cables out if all that's there is LAN and you don't have
another cable you need to stay put.

While I agree that it's good to have the cables separated, I would be
very surprised if anything above 10GB/sec was common for home use in
20 years. The trend is to wifi, not faster wired networks.


My guy says the trend will be back to wired, because wireless is getting
too clogged up.

I don't believe that at all. Antenna diversity and MIMO solve these
problems in all but the most dense living situations.

Wired is still faster and more reliable and will be for the foreseeable
future or until they find new frequencies. :-)

There is such a thing as "fast enough". We have exactly one wired link
in our house (that the cable company put in), basically because
there's no point in adding any more.

Wait till you see a decent fiber optic system and the possible speeds
and want to run 4k TV on wire for viewing new movies, especially on
more than one TV at a time. with full sound, using limited compression
and loss of musical tones.

Already done. Works fine.

Of course with the way my ears are going.

Audio bandwidth is miniscule.

On Sun, 03 Jun 2018 01:20:55 -0400, J. Clarke
wrote:

On Sat, 02 Jun 2018 21:46:53 -0700, OFWW
wrote:

On Sat, 02 Jun 2018 23:40:02 -0400, wrote:

On Sat, 2 Jun 2018 22:23:54 -0500, -MIKE-
wrote:

On 6/2/18 9:41 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
On Sun, 03 Jun 2018 02:10:39 GMT, Puckdropper
wrote:

-MIKE- wrote in news
On 6/2/18 10:11 AM, Puckdropper wrote:

My most recent wiring project was running outdoor rated CAT6 out to
the garage. You're already digging for one set of cable, might it be
worth digging for another? (Cat6 is easy to terminate, just use a
punch down connector and a decent punch tool.)

You can't run network cable close to power cable, though, unless you
take certain precautions. Parallel runs are a bad thing, but if you
must go close to power cables you can enclose the cable in a grounded
pipe. I didn't run in to these problems with my cable run, so I
didn't research them further.

Puckdropper


My buddy is an IT guru and he told me to run CAT10 with the AC and I'd
be fine.



I wasn't aware CAT10 was a thing yet. AFAICT, they're only up to CAT7.

A quick search (I'm not an expert, not even claiming to be) doesn't show
any results for CAT10. Wonder if he meant something different?

FWIW, I'd put the LAN cables in a different conduit as well. You know
that LAN standards will evolve for a while longer and you might decide 20
years down the road it's worth upgrading to faster cable. It'd be easier
to pull the cables out if all that's there is LAN and you don't have
another cable you need to stay put.

While I agree that it's good to have the cables separated, I would be
very surprised if anything above 10GB/sec was common for home use in
20 years. The trend is to wifi, not faster wired networks.


My guy says the trend will be back to wired, because wireless is getting
too clogged up.

I don't believe that at all. Antenna diversity and MIMO solve these
problems in all but the most dense living situations.

Wired is still faster and more reliable and will be for the foreseeable
future or until they find new frequencies. :-)

There is such a thing as "fast enough". We have exactly one wired link
in our house (that the cable company put in), basically because
there's no point in adding any more.

Wait till you see a decent fiber optic system and the possible speeds
and want to run 4k TV on wire for viewing new movies, especially on
more than one TV at a time. with full sound, using limited compression
and loss of musical tones.

I have no trouble running 4K TV over the built-in wifi in my TV. What
leads you to believe that is has some enormous bandwidth demand?

As for "possible speeds", other than bragging rights what do these
"possible speeds" get you?

Exactly. "Good enough" is good enough.

Of course with the way my ears are going.

On Sat, 02 Jun 2018 21:41:25 -0700, OFWW
wrote:

On Sat, 2 Jun 2018 22:23:54 -0500, -MIKE-
wrote:

On 6/2/18 9:41 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
On Sun, 03 Jun 2018 02:10:39 GMT, Puckdropper
wrote:

-MIKE- wrote in news
On 6/2/18 10:11 AM, Puckdropper wrote:

My most recent wiring project was running outdoor rated CAT6 out to
the garage. You're already digging for one set of cable, might it be
worth digging for another? (Cat6 is easy to terminate, just use a
punch down connector and a decent punch tool.)

You can't run network cable close to power cable, though, unless you
take certain precautions. Parallel runs are a bad thing, but if you
must go close to power cables you can enclose the cable in a grounded
pipe. I didn't run in to these problems with my cable run, so I
didn't research them further.

Puckdropper


My buddy is an IT guru and he told me to run CAT10 with the AC and I'd
be fine.



I wasn't aware CAT10 was a thing yet. AFAICT, they're only up to CAT7.

A quick search (I'm not an expert, not even claiming to be) doesn't show
any results for CAT10. Wonder if he meant something different?

FWIW, I'd put the LAN cables in a different conduit as well. You know
that LAN standards will evolve for a while longer and you might decide 20
years down the road it's worth upgrading to faster cable. It'd be easier
to pull the cables out if all that's there is LAN and you don't have
another cable you need to stay put.

While I agree that it's good to have the cables separated, I would be
very surprised if anything above 10GB/sec was common for home use in
20 years. The trend is to wifi, not faster wired networks.


My guy says the trend will be back to wired, because wireless is getting
too clogged up.
Wired is still faster and more reliable and will be for the foreseeable
future or until they find new frequencies. :-)

He is right. Especially when you find out how easy it is to hack WIFI
to the homes and businesses around you, especially on those that
haven't a clue about security. Years ago I used to connect up and
print out messages on their printers to clue them in.

Heavens! Someone will hack my television viewing! Oh, the
humanity!!!

On Sun, 03 Jun 2018 16:56:57 -0400, Clare Snyder
wrote:

On Sun, 03 Jun 2018 02:48:26 -0400, J. Clarke
wrote:

SNIPP

If he only got 2 Mb/sec out of modern Ethernet he's got a computer in
the middle there purposely designed to be a throttle.

Gigabit is just not that fragile. It has been shown to run on barbed
wire.

8 strands of barbed wire I assume?????
It will NOT downgrade it's speed as required to maintain connectivity.
Instead it will fail and retry, and fail again, untill it manages to
successfully pass the packet. This will NOT result in gagabit speeds -
likely even less than 10BT speeds.

SNIPP
I also still have a few routers, switches and stuff, Cisco commercial
products, wanna buy them and get them off my hands?


I've got gigabit stuff that's technically obsolete too - but would
still make someone a DANDY network

About $20,000 worth, at the very minimum when new - and it is NOT
CISCO.
I suspect that they are well and truly obsolete.

In any case, nobody is going to be running a T1 from their house to
their garage on a CAT6 cable. What's going to be running on it, in
2018, is gigabit Ethernet.


Or even. more commonly, a 100Mb connection (still WAY faster than
most internets)
Of course not, the switchgear costs alone would be prohibitive, plus
the cabling. But he could run fiber optics and never have any of the
problems associated with hard wire systems.

What would justify the expense?

The only thing that would justify fiber to the shop is EMI issues -
and they would have to be BAD - unless you just happen to have a bunch
of fiber net equipment gathering dust in the "sandbox" and you want to
play - - - -

If my creds are so important to you then you can call Cisco and see
what all I was certified for at the time. I am not keeping my certs
updated because I am retired. Get it?

And the equipment is leaving you WAY behind as well.
I never got CISCO certified because you could go broke just
maintaining currency with their new product.

I did not say "creds", I said "cred". You're topping it the expert
here when it's clear that you are far from up to date.

I'm basically "retired" for a year and I know I'm already far from up
to date with current technology. I gave up trying to keep up 5 years
ago when I offloaded the network management to a third party
consultant - who also prooved to be less than current and has now been
replaced by a larger and more proficient network consulting/management
firm. I wouldn't know where to start with the current setup in the new
insurance office facility. It's all enterprise grade stuff surplussed
out from Blackberry's downsizing - well over 1/4 million dollars worth
of network switches, routers, servers etc

The "obsolete" gear I have sitting here is what came out of the 2
offices when they moved in together in the new facility - virtually
all less than 5 years old

SNIPP
Explaining or rationalizing why it is important to do it right in the
first place.

What is "right" and what is adequate to the task are two different
things.

Overkill in IT installations is RAMPANT - particularly for home
installs.

SNIPP

Well that's all well and good. So how much measured degradtation have
you experiences in wires run from people's houses to people's garages
carrying gigabit?

I didn't do houses expect for friends. But the ground field for the
bldg is a big issue in such cases which I addressed in another post.

Apples - oranges - Turnips.

Yeah, you addressed it but didn't give any reason to believe that you
are familiar with transformer-coupled network interfaces which are
standard with modern Ethernet but apparently didn't exist the last
time you dealt with Ethernet.

If I gave you my full resume from all the years I've worked you would
probably call me a liar too. Oh well. what's a guy to do?

I don't care about your damned resume. You remind me of the mainframe
types who have been in IT for 50 years but can't figure out how to
work Excel.

About 27 years and I'm already a dynasaur - and I've never been
involved with anything outside the IBM compatible PC world, except for
the old 6809 Tandy world. (a bit of Banyan Vines, a bit of Unix Xenix,
a bit of Nohell, a touch of OS9 on the 6809 Trash80) - but
functionally illiterate outside the MS DOS / Windows world.

Reading your post brought back a lot of memories, especially about a
fast changing world.

I remember designing and building an HO POP in a wall cabinet. Thought
it was hot and would save a lot of labor and stuff strewn all about.

Six months later it was made so obsolete it was embarrassing.

I'm debating just trashing what I have here, don't even know what EBay
is doing these days on the stuff, or if 3rd world countries are still
behind the scenes and it might be useful there.

As to keeping up with the Licensing, unless you worked for a company
that supported your training/updating it could be rough.

One of the things I liked to do was setup flawed routers and managed
switches at home to help others with diagnosing and working out
problems. At the time I usually had a prize for those that made it all
the way though, that they could download once all the connections were
made. That was fun at the time.

Times have sure changed.

I now prefer woodworking and a garden with edibles, even cooking.

On Sun, 03 Jun 2018 01:08:36 -0400, J. Clarke
wrote:
SNIPP
My guy says the trend will be back to wired, because wireless is getting
too clogged up.
Wired is still faster and more reliable and will be for the foreseeable
future or until they find new frequencies. :-)

He is right. Especially when you find out how easy it is to hack WIFI
to the homes and businesses around you, especially on those that
haven't a clue about security. Years ago I used to connect up and
print out messages on their printers to clue them in.

Wired is faster, but how fast do you NEED? I see no evidence of a
trend to wired for residential use.

As for ease of hacking, this is mostly FUD. Has any data breach
causing economic harm to anyone _ever_ been traced to a wifi hack?

Yes. Using public WIFI - at coffee shop or motel, has compromized
several of my customers' laptops, at least one corporate bank account,
and numerous websites when the owner logged onto his server to manage
his website. (Huge damage to the websites -significant cost involved)

We KNOW it was wifi hacks in at least 3 of the cases because of where
the hacker got in from and where the customer was at the time
(Texas/Mexico , Indonesia, and Thailand)

Most data thieves don't go after Joe Homeowner or Fred's Pizza. They
go after somebody who is likely to have enough in assets accessible by
computer to actually be worth stealing.

That's "data thieves", but malicious "code kiddies"are another
altogether. They derive "street cred" from their hacks, and when they
get credit card information and passwords, hang on!!!!! Thankfully the
banks take the hit instead of the customer.


I have NO IDEA how anyone got my bank card number and password - it is
ONLY used as identification and my home bank branch (only once at the
ATM) and to log into my electronic banking application (which I had
only done TWICE before someone successfully used it in Mexico and
tried to use it 3 more times )
They got $600 out of my account oin the "trial run" then tried for
several thousand (unsuccessfully, thanks to my bank's security
settings) over the next couple of days. Cost the bank -not me - and
necessitated getting a new bank access card.
Not sure WIFI was involved on this one as I only accessed the
application ONCE on wifi - and that was on my secured home wifi - the
card has never been outside of Canada - muchless been used or
referenced outside of Canada - but to have both my card number and my
14 digit very high security password it had to have been "sniffed"
somewhere.

On Sun, 03 Jun 2018 12:55:16 -0700, OFWW
wrote:

Well Mr. Bright boy

No worries Mr. Clarke is secure in his beliefs, despite evidence in
many a "conversations" I have read here.

On Sat, 02 Jun 2018 23:42:50 -0700, OFWW
wrote:



Wait till you see a decent fiber optic system and the possible speeds
and want to run 4k TV on wire for viewing new movies, especially on
more than one TV at a time. with full sound, using limited compression
and loss of musical tones.

I have no trouble running 4K TV over the built-in wifi in my TV. What
leads you to believe that is has some enormous bandwidth demand?


On cable networks they do not have 4K options in most any area. Our
local Cable does not have 4K video anything, any channel, local or
remote and has no current plans to do so. And Fibre Optics is not yet
avail to residences here.

Up here Bell ofers "Fibe Internet" - touting it as a fiber optics
network - but the fiber ends almost a half mile away and the copper
from there to here is so bad they could not give me a clean phoine
line 5 years ago - and they have no replaced any copper in the
intervening years.
I have my internet on Cable and it's on;y been down (that I caught
it) about 3 times in the last 2 years - for up to about 3 hours but
usually only for a few minutes.

100mb down, 10+mb up with 15ms latency
I get 12.3Mbps on my phone over wifi

SNIPP

On Sun, 03 Jun 2018 17:06:59 -0400, wrote:

On Sat, 02 Jun 2018 21:03:30 -0700, OFWW
wrote:

On Sat, 2 Jun 2018 19:53:25 -0500, -MIKE-
wrote:

On 6/2/18 7:37 PM, OFWW wrote:
On Sat, 2 Jun 2018 16:26:12 -0500, -MIKE-
wrote:

On 6/2/18 10:11 AM, Puckdropper wrote:
-MIKE- wrote in news

Funnier part... finding this pipe under the pad distracted me so much
that I forgot that I had already figured all this out. :-)
I can't use that path because it I would have to take a hard right
turn and then another left to go around the end of the septic system's
leach field. I don't like the prospect of pulling #6 through those
bends on a 100'+ run.

On the far edge of the driveway is a row of 80ft Poplars. Because I
don't want to dig through their major roots, I can't use a ditch-witch
to trench that path.

At the corner of the garage where I intended to start the underground
conduit, there is an expansion joint in the parking area pad with
asphalt expansion joint filler. The path along that joint is far
enough away from the leach bed and far enough from the tree roots that
I can go straight back along that expansion joint.
All I have to do is rent a concrete saw and make one cut a few inches
from the existing expansion joint and then fill it back in with
Quickcrete when I'm done laying the conduit.

That will be easier than hand digging a trench around 3-4" tree roots
and trying to weave the conduit over and under them.



My most recent wiring project was running outdoor rated CAT6 out to the
garage. You're already digging for one set of cable, might it be worth
digging for another? (Cat6 is easy to terminate, just use a punch down
connector and a decent punch tool.)

You can't run network cable close to power cable, though, unless you take
certain precautions. Parallel runs are a bad thing, but if you must go
close to power cables you can enclose the cable in a grounded pipe. I
didn't run in to these problems with my cable run, so I didn't research
them further.

Puckdropper


My buddy is an IT guru and he told me to run CAT10 with the AC and I'd
be fine.

I am Cisco certified, it is not recommended.


60 cycle interference?

In is unsafe to take a chance with high voltage crossing over to a
consumer device. There is also the electromagnetic effect, especially
on an A/C system with its varying loads. On systems with variable
speed drives there are multiple problems, and it is also a Code
violation in most places. It is not even recommended to mix land line
phone lines in the walls, or conduit, and any box.

Then I suppose they don't really make these things.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Carlon-2-Gang-Dual-Voltage-Box-and-Bracket-SC200DVR/100146034


Yes they do, for a phone line and a cable TV hookup on one side and
power on the other side. The EMI On 110 has very little effect on
those items. As to the Satellite TV guys they would refuse to do it
that way, they are trained to keep them separate on Direct TV.

If you run the power and other lines neatly together it is your
problem.


The twist in CAT cables knocks out a lot of noise but not all noise.

There are more technical reasons as well, but I'd have to look it up,
I just recently threw away all my books, manuals, etc. figuring I have
been retired long enough that I'd not ever need them again.

On Sun, 03 Jun 2018 17:22:40 -0400, wrote:

On Sat, 02 Jun 2018 21:46:53 -0700, OFWW
wrote:

On Sat, 02 Jun 2018 23:40:02 -0400, wrote:

On Sat, 2 Jun 2018 22:23:54 -0500, -MIKE-
wrote:

On 6/2/18 9:41 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
On Sun, 03 Jun 2018 02:10:39 GMT, Puckdropper
wrote:

-MIKE- wrote in news
On 6/2/18 10:11 AM, Puckdropper wrote:

My most recent wiring project was running outdoor rated CAT6 out to
the garage. You're already digging for one set of cable, might it be
worth digging for another? (Cat6 is easy to terminate, just use a
punch down connector and a decent punch tool.)

You can't run network cable close to power cable, though, unless you
take certain precautions. Parallel runs are a bad thing, but if you
must go close to power cables you can enclose the cable in a grounded
pipe. I didn't run in to these problems with my cable run, so I
didn't research them further.

Puckdropper


My buddy is an IT guru and he told me to run CAT10 with the AC and I'd
be fine.



I wasn't aware CAT10 was a thing yet. AFAICT, they're only up to CAT7.

A quick search (I'm not an expert, not even claiming to be) doesn't show
any results for CAT10. Wonder if he meant something different?

FWIW, I'd put the LAN cables in a different conduit as well. You know
that LAN standards will evolve for a while longer and you might decide 20
years down the road it's worth upgrading to faster cable. It'd be easier
to pull the cables out if all that's there is LAN and you don't have
another cable you need to stay put.

While I agree that it's good to have the cables separated, I would be
very surprised if anything above 10GB/sec was common for home use in
20 years. The trend is to wifi, not faster wired networks.


My guy says the trend will be back to wired, because wireless is getting
too clogged up.

I don't believe that at all. Antenna diversity and MIMO solve these
problems in all but the most dense living situations.

Wired is still faster and more reliable and will be for the foreseeable
future or until they find new frequencies. :-)

There is such a thing as "fast enough". We have exactly one wired link
in our house (that the cable company put in), basically because
there's no point in adding any more.

Wait till you see a decent fiber optic system and the possible speeds
and want to run 4k TV on wire for viewing new movies, especially on
more than one TV at a time. with full sound, using limited compression
and loss of musical tones.

Already done. Works fine.

Of course with the way my ears are going.

Audio bandwidth is miniscule.

Music, not voice.

On Sun, 03 Jun 2018 17:25:52 -0400, wrote:

On Sat, 02 Jun 2018 21:41:25 -0700, OFWW
wrote:

On Sat, 2 Jun 2018 22:23:54 -0500, -MIKE-
wrote:

On 6/2/18 9:41 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
On Sun, 03 Jun 2018 02:10:39 GMT, Puckdropper
wrote:

-MIKE- wrote in news
On 6/2/18 10:11 AM, Puckdropper wrote:

My most recent wiring project was running outdoor rated CAT6 out to
the garage. You're already digging for one set of cable, might it be
worth digging for another? (Cat6 is easy to terminate, just use a
punch down connector and a decent punch tool.)

You can't run network cable close to power cable, though, unless you
take certain precautions. Parallel runs are a bad thing, but if you
must go close to power cables you can enclose the cable in a grounded
pipe. I didn't run in to these problems with my cable run, so I
didn't research them further.

Puckdropper


My buddy is an IT guru and he told me to run CAT10 with the AC and I'd
be fine.



I wasn't aware CAT10 was a thing yet. AFAICT, they're only up to CAT7.

A quick search (I'm not an expert, not even claiming to be) doesn't show
any results for CAT10. Wonder if he meant something different?

FWIW, I'd put the LAN cables in a different conduit as well. You know
that LAN standards will evolve for a while longer and you might decide 20
years down the road it's worth upgrading to faster cable. It'd be easier
to pull the cables out if all that's there is LAN and you don't have
another cable you need to stay put.

While I agree that it's good to have the cables separated, I would be
very surprised if anything above 10GB/sec was common for home use in
20 years. The trend is to wifi, not faster wired networks.


My guy says the trend will be back to wired, because wireless is getting
too clogged up.
Wired is still faster and more reliable and will be for the foreseeable
future or until they find new frequencies. :-)

He is right. Especially when you find out how easy it is to hack WIFI
to the homes and businesses around you, especially on those that
haven't a clue about security. Years ago I used to connect up and
print out messages on their printers to clue them in.

Heavens! Someone will hack my television viewing! Oh, the
humanity!!!

They will and can hack your smart TV software or app's.