This is going to be a real rookie question, so please be gentle.

I've never used router template guide bushings before, but I am about to.

To install this bed rail hardware, I need to make a 5/8" mortise for the
slotted portion and then two 1/4" mortises right in the center of that
mortise to accept the hooks. My testing shows that a single pass with a
5/8" bit makes a nice snug mortise for the hardware.

http://www.cshardware.com/15-74-5.html

It seems to me that if I make a jig to accept the bushing for the 5/8"
bit, then all I need to do is swap out the bit and the same jig can be
used for both mortises. The 1/4" bit will be centered in the 5/8" mortise
"by default". That seems pretty straight forward.

So assuming that I am OK with using that technique, here's my question:

Why are there so many different sized bushings? Why not have just 1 bushing
to accept the largest bit and then make all jigs to work with that one
bushing? All bits, regardless of their size, will be centered in the bushing,
so why are there multiple bushings that match the bits when its the *jig* that
determines where the bit will contact the wood?

I'm sure I'm missing something simple due to lack of experience.

Thanks!

On 7/29/2016 2:25 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
This is going to be a real rookie question, so please be gentle.

I've never used router template guide bushings before, but I am about to.

To install this bed rail hardware, I need to make a 5/8" mortise for the
slotted portion and then two 1/4" mortises right in the center of that
mortise to accept the hooks. My testing shows that a single pass with a
5/8" bit makes a nice snug mortise for the hardware.

Consider also not using a guide bushing at all. I use a jig the exact
size that I want to cut and then use a top bearing flush cut bit. The
top bearing rides along the jig sitting on top of the work. And you
only need one size bit. Use a jig with a wider opening for the wider
mortise. Obviously the wider mortise will take a pass or two down each
side of the jig opening.




http://www.cshardware.com/15-74-5.html

It seems to me that if I make a jig to accept the bushing for the 5/8"
bit, then all I need to do is swap out the bit and the same jig can be
used for both mortises. The 1/4" bit will be centered in the 5/8" mortise
"by default". That seems pretty straight forward.

So assuming that I am OK with using that technique, here's my question:

Why are there so many different sized bushings? Why not have just 1 bushing
to accept the largest bit and then make all jigs to work with that one
bushing? All bits, regardless of their size, will be centered in the bushing,
so why are there multiple bushings that match the bits when its the *jig* that
determines where the bit will contact the wood?

There are a bunch of different bushings for different kinds of jigs.
Think DT jigs, Box joint jigs etc. And then there are special bushing
for inlay, cutting the indention and cutting the inlay to fit snugly
inside that indention.

Also do not assume that bits will be centered in the bushing. Typically
the bushing is not centered with the bit. This shows up if you clock
the router while making a pass. This can be adjusted by centering the
bushing with the collet with a special cone shaped bit but only if you
have the ability to center the bushing.

And this is exactly why I do not us a bushing vs. a 1/2" diameter top
bearing flush cut bit. for cutting mortises.




I'm sure I'm missing something simple due to lack of experience.


Live and learn. Some of us have been down this road, some have not yet.

Thanks!

On 7/29/2016 2:25 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
I've never used router template guide bushings before, but I am about to.

To install this bed rail hardware, I need to make a 5/8" mortise for the
slotted portion and then two 1/4" mortises right in the center of that
mortise to accept the hooks. My testing shows that a single pass with a
5/8" bit makes a nice snug mortise for the hardware.

Basically what Leon said.

As long as you make a jig that will have stops to limit travel
(generally in two dimensions), then you really don't need a guide bushing.

However, guide bushing can be critical when cutting irregular shapes and
patterns, like dovetail joint pins and tails. AAMOF, the correct size of
the bushing when using commercial jigs, like dovetail jigs, is extremely
critical to the specific jig.

And yes, centering is difficult to achieve, but can be mitigated by
always holding the router in the same orientation when routing,
regardless of the direction you move the router.

For a straight cut the same size as the bit, just design a jig with
stops at the proper project length, as you see he

http://e-woodshop.net/Jigs.htm

scroll down to "Router Mortising Jigs"

Depending upon your router, you may have to capture the router in the
jig so it is fixed on the long axis of the cut, then use spacers as
stops to vary the length of the cut.

The photos should make it obvious ...

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On Friday, July 29, 2016 at 6:33:48 PM UTC-4, Leon wrote:
On 7/29/2016 2:25 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
This is going to be a real rookie question, so please be gentle.

I've never used router template guide bushings before, but I am about to.

To install this bed rail hardware, I need to make a 5/8" mortise for the
slotted portion and then two 1/4" mortises right in the center of that
mortise to accept the hooks. My testing shows that a single pass with a
5/8" bit makes a nice snug mortise for the hardware.

Consider also not using a guide bushing at all. I use a jig the exact
size that I want to cut and then use a top bearing flush cut bit. The
top bearing rides along the jig sitting on top of the work. And you
only need one size bit. Use a jig with a wider opening for the wider
mortise. Obviously the wider mortise will take a pass or two down each
side of the jig opening.

Thanks for the tips, but...

Are you suggesting 2 jigs vs. 2 bits and a guide bushing for my situation -
one jig for the 5/8" mortise, requiring multiple passes with the 1/4" bit
and then one jig for the 1/4" mortise that needs to be centered in the 5/8"
mortise?





http://www.cshardware.com/15-74-5.html

It seems to me that if I make a jig to accept the bushing for the 5/8"
bit, then all I need to do is swap out the bit and the same jig can be
used for both mortises. The 1/4" bit will be centered in the 5/8" mortise
"by default". That seems pretty straight forward.

So assuming that I am OK with using that technique, here's my question:

Why are there so many different sized bushings? Why not have just 1 bushing
to accept the largest bit and then make all jigs to work with that one
bushing? All bits, regardless of their size, will be centered in the bushing,
so why are there multiple bushings that match the bits when its the *jig* that
determines where the bit will contact the wood?

There are a bunch of different bushings for different kinds of jigs.
Think DT jigs, Box joint jigs etc. And then there are special bushing
for inlay, cutting the indention and cutting the inlay to fit snugly
inside that indention.

Also do not assume that bits will be centered in the bushing. Typically
the bushing is not centered with the bit. This shows up if you clock
the router while making a pass. This can be adjusted by centering the
bushing with the collet with a special cone shaped bit but only if you
have the ability to center the bushing.

And this is exactly why I do not us a bushing vs. a 1/2" diameter top
bearing flush cut bit. for cutting mortises.




I'm sure I'm missing something simple due to lack of experience.


Live and learn. Some of us have been down this road, some have not yet.

Thanks!

On Friday, July 29, 2016 at 7:42:32 PM UTC-4, Swingman wrote:
On 7/29/2016 2:25 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
I've never used router template guide bushings before, but I am about to.

To install this bed rail hardware, I need to make a 5/8" mortise for the
slotted portion and then two 1/4" mortises right in the center of that
mortise to accept the hooks. My testing shows that a single pass with a
5/8" bit makes a nice snug mortise for the hardware.

Basically what Leon said.

As long as you make a jig that will have stops to limit travel
(generally in two dimensions), then you really don't need a guide bushing.

However, guide bushing can be critical when cutting irregular shapes and
patterns, like dovetail joint pins and tails. AAMOF, the correct size of
the bushing when using commercial jigs, like dovetail jigs, is extremely
critical to the specific jig.

And yes, centering is difficult to achieve, but can be mitigated by
always holding the router in the same orientation when routing,
regardless of the direction you move the router.

For a straight cut the same size as the bit, just design a jig with
stops at the proper project length, as you see he

http://e-woodshop.net/Jigs.htm

scroll down to "Router Mortising Jigs"

Depending upon your router, you may have to capture the router in the
jig so it is fixed on the long axis of the cut, then use spacers as
stops to vary the length of the cut.

The photos should make it obvious ...

....and worth at least a thousand words. Thanks!

DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Friday, July 29, 2016 at 6:33:48 PM UTC-4, Leon wrote:
On 7/29/2016 2:25 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
This is going to be a real rookie question, so please be gentle.

I've never used router template guide bushings before, but I am about to.

To install this bed rail hardware, I need to make a 5/8" mortise for the
slotted portion and then two 1/4" mortises right in the center of that
mortise to accept the hooks. My testing shows that a single pass with a
5/8" bit makes a nice snug mortise for the hardware.

Consider also not using a guide bushing at all. I use a jig the exact
size that I want to cut and then use a top bearing flush cut bit. The
top bearing rides along the jig sitting on top of the work. And you
only need one size bit. Use a jig with a wider opening for the wider
mortise. Obviously the wider mortise will take a pass or two down each
side of the jig opening.

Thanks for the tips, but...

Are you suggesting 2 jigs vs. 2 bits and a guide bushing for my situation -
one jig for the 5/8" mortise, requiring multiple passes with the 1/4" bit
and then one jig for the 1/4" mortise that needs to be centered in the 5/8"
mortise?

Yes. But good luck finding a top bearing flush cut bit in 1/4" size.
Does the centered mortise have to be 1/4" wide? Could it be 1/2"? And or
since the centered smaller mortise will not be seem could you free hand it
with a plain straight cut 1/4" bit after making the bigger mortise?










http://www.cshardware.com/15-74-5.html

It seems to me that if I make a jig to accept the bushing for the 5/8"
bit, then all I need to do is swap out the bit and the same jig can be
used for both mortises. The 1/4" bit will be centered in the 5/8" mortise
"by default". That seems pretty straight forward.

So assuming that I am OK with using that technique, here's my question:

Why are there so many different sized bushings? Why not have just 1 bushing
to accept the largest bit and then make all jigs to work with that one
bushing? All bits, regardless of their size, will be centered in the bushing,
so why are there multiple bushings that match the bits when its the *jig* that
determines where the bit will contact the wood?

There are a bunch of different bushings for different kinds of jigs.
Think DT jigs, Box joint jigs etc. And then there are special bushing
for inlay, cutting the indention and cutting the inlay to fit snugly
inside that indention.

Also do not assume that bits will be centered in the bushing. Typically
the bushing is not centered with the bit. This shows up if you clock
the router while making a pass. This can be adjusted by centering the
bushing with the collet with a special cone shaped bit but only if you
have the ability to center the bushing.

And this is exactly why I do not us a bushing vs. a 1/2" diameter top
bearing flush cut bit. for cutting mortises.




I'm sure I'm missing something simple due to lack of experience.


Live and learn. Some of us have been down this road, some have not yet.

Thanks!

On Saturday, July 30, 2016 at 8:59:31 AM UTC-4, Leon wrote:
DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Friday, July 29, 2016 at 6:33:48 PM UTC-4, Leon wrote:
On 7/29/2016 2:25 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
This is going to be a real rookie question, so please be gentle.

I've never used router template guide bushings before, but I am about to.

To install this bed rail hardware, I need to make a 5/8" mortise for the
slotted portion and then two 1/4" mortises right in the center of that
mortise to accept the hooks. My testing shows that a single pass with a
5/8" bit makes a nice snug mortise for the hardware.

Consider also not using a guide bushing at all. I use a jig the exact
size that I want to cut and then use a top bearing flush cut bit. The
top bearing rides along the jig sitting on top of the work. And you
only need one size bit. Use a jig with a wider opening for the wider
mortise. Obviously the wider mortise will take a pass or two down each
side of the jig opening.

Thanks for the tips, but...

Are you suggesting 2 jigs vs. 2 bits and a guide bushing for my situation -
one jig for the 5/8" mortise, requiring multiple passes with the 1/4" bit
and then one jig for the 1/4" mortise that needs to be centered in the 5/8"
mortise?

Yes. But good luck finding a top bearing flush cut bit in 1/4" size.
Does the centered mortise have to be 1/4" wide? Could it be 1/2"? And or
since the centered smaller mortise will not be seem could you free hand it
with a plain straight cut 1/4" bit after making the bigger mortise?



Yes to both suggestions regarding the smaller mortise.

I'll play with the 5/8 bushing this weekend, since I already have it and see
what happens. If it's a problem, I'll look at the top bearing option.

BTW - the bushing adapter I bought on eBay fits perfectly. There's just a tiny
bit of wiggle before the screws are tightened which seems to allow for some
centering capability. Of course, I don't have a centering cone...yet.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Router-Templ...-/111153232468

"DerbyDad03" wrote in message
...

Why are there so many different sized bushings? Why not have just 1
bushing
to accept the largest bit and then make all jigs to work with that one
bushing? All bits, regardless of their size, will be centered in the
bushing,
so why are there multiple bushings that match the bits when its the *jig*
that
determines where the bit will contact the wood?

For one reason, different size bushings let you offset different distances
form whatever the bushing is guiding on; could be handy if you want parallel
grooves and have the tight size bushings.

There are only two times I've used bushings:

1. When using a router to make shelf pin holes.

2. When I need to follow a curved surface.

On Saturday, July 30, 2016 at 11:01:02 AM UTC-7, dadiOH wrote:
"DerbyDad03" wrote in message
...

Why are there so many different sized bushings?

There are only two times I've used bushings:

1. When using a router to make shelf pin holes.

2. When I need to follow a curved surface.

For making sliding-dovetail slots, one requires a guide jig.
So, cobble something up quickly, and make the guide slot with your dado
set on the table saw...
but, that slot won't be wide enough to guide a router base, so unless
you have dovetail bits with guide bearings (I don't), just use the bushings.
Centering doesn't matter, here, if you don't rotate the router during
the cut.

On 7/30/2016 4:09 PM, whit3rd wrote:
On Saturday, July 30, 2016 at 11:01:02 AM UTC-7, dadiOH wrote:
"DerbyDad03" wrote in message
...

Why are there so many different sized bushings?

There are only two times I've used bushings:

1. When using a router to make shelf pin holes.

2. When I need to follow a curved surface.

For making sliding-dovetail slots, one requires a guide jig.
So, cobble something up quickly, and make the guide slot with your dado
set on the table saw...
but, that slot won't be wide enough to guide a router base, so unless
you have dovetail bits with guide bearings (I don't), just use the bushings.
Centering doesn't matter, here, if you don't rotate the router during
the cut.


Actually I made sliding DT joints with my router table and fence. No jig.

On Saturday, July 30, 2016 at 9:11:39 PM UTC-7, Leon wrote:
On 7/30/2016 4:09 PM, whit3rd wrote:

For making sliding-dovetail slots, one requires a guide jig.

Actually I made sliding DT joints with my router table and fence. No jig.

I'm making dovetail slots across a 7' board, for tall bookshelves. Can't
get it accurate enough on the router table, clamping a guide works. Biggest
problem, is getting it clamped without interfering with router movement.

whit3rd wrote in
:

On Saturday, July 30, 2016 at 9:11:39 PM UTC-7, Leon wrote:
On 7/30/2016 4:09 PM, whit3rd wrote:

For making sliding-dovetail slots, one requires a guide jig.

Actually I made sliding DT joints with my router table and fence. No
jig.

I'm making dovetail slots across a 7' board, for tall bookshelves.
Can't get it accurate enough on the router table, clamping a guide
works. Biggest problem, is getting it clamped without interfering
with router movement.

I've had a few times where I've needed to stop partway through and move a
clamp. Three clamps is the minimum for this: two clamps keep the piece
from rotating as the third is moved.

Sometimes it's necessary to tack nail a board in place using fine brads.
Norm used to do it all the time. (I suspect when Norm makes pancakes, he
puts a "couple of brads in until the glue dries.") It's up to you to
make them invisible once removed. (I've found small holes like that are
often best not fixed.)

Puckdropper

On 7/30/16 8:00 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:

BTW - the bushing adapter I bought on eBay fits perfectly. There's just a tiny
bit of wiggle before the screws are tightened which seems to allow for some
centering capability. Of course, I don't have a centering cone...yet.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Router-Templ...-/111153232468


If you have a plunge base, often you can use a 45 degree bevel bit for
centering (the plunge allows you to remove the bit after centering your
bushing). For a fixed base, often you can use a dovetail bit for centering.

-BR

On 7/30/2016 11:47 PM, whit3rd wrote:
On Saturday, July 30, 2016 at 9:11:39 PM UTC-7, Leon wrote:
On 7/30/2016 4:09 PM, whit3rd wrote:

For making sliding-dovetail slots, one requires a guide jig.

Actually I made sliding DT joints with my router table and fence. No jig.

I'm making dovetail slots across a 7' board, for tall bookshelves. Can't
get it accurate enough on the router table,

Well there you only need a straight edge guide, I don't see the need for
a guide bushing. The guide can be a hunk of plywood.

clamping a guide works. Biggest
problem, is getting it clamped without interfering with router movement.

As stated above, use a large enough piece of plywood as a strait edge guide.

On 7/31/2016 12:47 AM, Puckdropper wrote:
whit3rd wrote in
:

On Saturday, July 30, 2016 at 9:11:39 PM UTC-7, Leon wrote:
On 7/30/2016 4:09 PM, whit3rd wrote:

For making sliding-dovetail slots, one requires a guide jig.

Actually I made sliding DT joints with my router table and fence. No
jig.

I'm making dovetail slots across a 7' board, for tall bookshelves.
Can't get it accurate enough on the router table, clamping a guide
works. Biggest problem, is getting it clamped without interfering
with router movement.

I've had a few times where I've needed to stop partway through and move a
clamp. Three clamps is the minimum for this: two clamps keep the piece
from rotating as the third is moved.

Sometimes it's necessary to tack nail a board in place using fine brads.
Norm used to do it all the time. (I suspect when Norm makes pancakes, he
puts a "couple of brads in until the glue dries.") It's up to you to
make them invisible once removed. (I've found small holes like that are
often best not fixed.)

LOL Call those holes "worm holes" for added value.
Rockler has "Wormy" Red Oak on sale for $3.99 per BF. I can get
perfectly fine Red Oak for less.

On 7/31/2016 9:32 AM, Brewster wrote:
On 7/30/16 8:00 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:

BTW - the bushing adapter I bought on eBay fits perfectly. There's
just a tiny
bit of wiggle before the screws are tightened which seems to allow for
some
centering capability. Of course, I don't have a centering cone...yet.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Router-Templ...-/111153232468



If you have a plunge base, often you can use a 45 degree bevel bit for
centering (the plunge allows you to remove the bit after centering your
bushing). For a fixed base, often you can use a dovetail bit for centering.

-BR


Two flute bits can get you close but the bushing can still end up
slightly off center.

On 7/31/2016 10:29 AM, Leon wrote:
On 7/30/2016 11:47 PM, whit3rd wrote:
On Saturday, July 30, 2016 at 9:11:39 PM UTC-7, Leon wrote:
On 7/30/2016 4:09 PM, whit3rd wrote:

For making sliding-dovetail slots, one requires a guide jig.

Actually I made sliding DT joints with my router table and fence. No
jig.

I'm making dovetail slots across a 7' board, for tall bookshelves.
Can't
get it accurate enough on the router table,

Well there you only need a straight edge guide, I don't see the need for
a guide bushing. The guide can be a hunk of plywood.

It also helps to cut a dado to remove most of the wood before running
the DT bit.



clamping a guide works. Biggest
problem, is getting it clamped without interfering with router movement.

As stated above, use a large enough piece of plywood as a strait edge
guide.

On Sunday, July 31, 2016 at 8:29:41 AM UTC-7, Leon wrote:
On 7/30/2016 11:47 PM, whit3rd wrote:
On Saturday, July 30, 2016 at 9:11:39 PM UTC-7, Leon wrote:
On 7/30/2016 4:09 PM, whit3rd wrote:

For making sliding-dovetail slots, one requires a guide jig.

Actually I made sliding DT joints with my router table and fence. No jig.

I'm making dovetail slots across a 7' board, for tall bookshelves. Can't
get it accurate enough on the router table,

Well there you only need a straight edge guide, I don't see the need for
a guide bushing. The guide can be a hunk of plywood.

The slot isn't the size of one pass with the dovetail bit, though. It's nearly the
full thickness of the thinnest of the shelf boards There's only about
..003" tolerance, for the shelves to be a press-fit in the uprights. I'm actually
using half-dovetails, one router with straight bit against the left edge, one with a
dovetail bit against the right edge; that simplifies the shelf-end cuts.

The guide is plywood, but the guiding edge has a hard face applied; I tried steel,
and quartersawn oak. Both work, but straight steel L-section is expensive
(and if it's not-so-straight, you're back to seeking hardwood scraps for the
next edge).

replying to whit3rd, Bw wrote:
Top or bottom bearing bits are good for exact pattern making. But sometimes
the bearing comes loose and you ruin the pattern. Also the bearing has a
tendency to wear out the pattern. Guide bushings are stationary and will not
ruin the pattern.

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