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On 3/21/2016 8:55 PM, notbob wrote:
On 2016-03-21, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

https://www.leighjigs.com/download/S...0Dec8%2015.pdf


Sorry. I don't dwnld PDF files proffered in newsgroups. Thnx anyway.

nb


From a stranger I'd agree. From the regulars here I'd not hesitate.
Your choice, your loss.
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On 2016-03-22, Mike Marlow wrote:

Then why bother to even ask questions on a forum like this.


Cuz it's woodworking I need help with, not computer security.

nb
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On 2016-03-22, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

From a stranger I'd agree. From the regulars here I'd not hesitate.
Your choice, your loss.


Your opinion.

Not having been here long enough to know exactly who "the regulars" are, I jes went to
the website.

nb

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On 2016-03-21, Swingman wrote:

The locking rabbet joint can be made on either a router table using a
"locking rabbet" bit set, or on the table saw.


I finally looked up "locking rabbet" joint. Very interesting, but
will it work on 1/2" sides?

nb
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On 21 Mar 2016 21:23:27 GMT, notbob wrote:

On 2016-03-21, Swingman wrote:

Too bad.


Yes. It is sad.

Nothing at all wrong with the newer injection molded plastic Kreg
jigs.


In yer opinion.


Well if you do not like plastic Kreg pocket hole jigs ( I do )
Lee Valley has it covered.

http://www.leevalley.com/US/Wood/pag...at=1,180,42311



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On 3/21/2016 9:23 PM, notbob wrote:
On 2016-03-21, Swingman wrote:

The locking rabbet joint can be made on either a router table using a
"locking rabbet" bit set, or on the table saw.


I finally looked up "locking rabbet" joint. Very interesting, but
will it work on 1/2" sides?

nb

Absolutely!
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On 3/21/2016 4:23 PM, notbob wrote:
On 2016-03-21, Swingman wrote:

Too bad.


Yes. It is sad.

Nothing at all wrong with the newer injection molded plastic Kreg
jigs.


In yer opinion.

I've already dealt with enough plastic in my life. I'm getting into
woodworking cuz I wanna get away from plastic.

Yeah, I know. There is still gonna be tons o' plastic around the
shop. Try and find some hand power tools that are still all metal,
like my '70 Milwaukee all-metal-casing 1/2" drill motor. Fat chance.

I'm cleaning out my late mother's property. Jes today, I've already
found 3 almost new pwr tools. Two corded orb sanders (hope one has a
dust blwr) and and an ultra cheap B&D bat drill motor. Now I have 3
orb sanders, four battery drill motors, 2 Skil saws (gave the
worm-drive away), and they all are mostly plastic construction.

Another reason I dislike plastic: Know what a Robot Coupe immersion
blender is?

http://www.basequipment.com/Robot-Coupe-MP550-TURBO-21-Immersion-Blender-p/rob-mp550.htm

Our model cost over $600, yet it fell over in the kitchen and the
plastic handle broke into a dozen pieces when it hit the kitchen floor
(which is always present). Oops! Last time I saw it, it was a Red
Green special.

nb

IF you are really interested in getting in to woodworking,,,, don't have
a predisposition of a particular material used for something that it is
perfectly suited for.
There is another poster here that is mispositioned against Jet because
of a faulty set screw or something like that, and he has pretty much
shunned the brand because of ignorance. I would dare say that the brand
is better than what he has produced.

Anyway, keep an eye out for those in this group that "do" rather than
give opinions. Those people have a long list of woodworking
accomplishments and got there with a good solid knowledge about what
they are talking about.
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On 3/21/2016 8:17 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
notbob wrote:
On 2016-03-21, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

https://www.leighjigs.com/download/S...0Dec8%2015.pdf


Sorry. I don't dwnld PDF files proffered in newsgroups. Thnx anyway.

nb


Then why bother to even ask questions on a forum like this. Maybe you
should just go on in the way that you you to be the best.


Actually I did not open a web site myself a few days ago, for the same
reason.
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Leon wrote:
On 3/21/2016 7:55 PM, notbob wrote:
On 2016-03-21, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

https://www.leighjigs.com/download/S...0Dec8%2015.pdf


Sorry. I don't dwnld PDF files proffered in newsgroups. Thnx anyway.

nb

Understood. ;~)



So, pdf files can contain viruses???
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Bill wrote:
Leon wrote:
On 3/21/2016 7:55 PM, notbob wrote:
On 2016-03-21, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

https://www.leighjigs.com/download/S...0Dec8%2015.pdf


Sorry. I don't dwnld PDF files proffered in newsgroups. Thnx anyway.

nb

Understood. ;~)



So, pdf files can contain viruses???


I did a little reading on this, so no need to reply. OTOH, I just
updated my Adobe Reader, and it upgraded me to its new "DC" (cloud)
version--so the potential for troubles just increased, I think.


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On Sunday, March 20, 2016 at 12:37:59 PM UTC-7, notbob wrote:

..., I have plenty of dial
indicators and other machinist tools, but who makes wood cuts closer
than 1/64 of an inch (~0.015")?


Might not measure that close, but getting a tenon just right before applying
glue, is .005" or better. Those dial gages might help you adjust a fence for a
critical cut on a table saw. They definitely come in handy for table saw alignment.
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notbob wrote in news:dlb7uoFi1f4U2
@mid.individual.net:

On 2016-03-21, Swingman wrote:

as there is a no more shoddy way to build a drawer than to use
biscuit joinery ... a guaranteed, unarguably, misguided FAIL from
the get go.


Not the way I plan to go. Still, my buddy has a biscuit joiner tool.

I was thinking the cheapest entry would be box joints. Buy a good saw,
a good chisel, and some glue. Then, borrow a boatload of clamps.

Anyone make a good joinery saw fer under $50? (saw handle). No way I
can afford one of those Rob Cosman thingies. 8|

nb


Have a look:
http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/pag...86&cat=1,42884

(This page was the top result for "Lee Valley Japanese Saw Set", if you'd
prefer to go through Google first. ;-) )

Lee Valley is kinda the woodworking toystore, so you'll probably spend
more money than you think. But as a machinist you'll understand.

I love these saws, they're easy to use and accurate. Now, if only I
could teach myself to use these saws to their full potential.

Pull saws like this bend and wreck easily, so you must be careful as
you're cutting. Take it easy and let the tool do the work. These are
not tools that impose your will upon the wood, but rather tools that
allow you to bring out the joint hidden in the wood.

Puckdropper
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notbob wrote:
On 2016-03-22, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

From a stranger I'd agree. From the regulars here I'd not hesitate.
Your choice, your loss.


Your opinion.

Not having been here long enough to know exactly who "the regulars" are, I jes went to
the website.

nb



Better safe than sorry when you're new I guess, but if you hang out here
long enough you'll figure out who you can trust quickly enough.

--
-Mike-

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On 3/21/2016 9:23 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 3/21/2016 8:55 PM, notbob wrote:
On 2016-03-21, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

https://www.leighjigs.com/download/S...0Dec8%2015.pdf


Sorry. I don't dwnld PDF files proffered in newsgroups. Thnx anyway.

nb


From a stranger I'd agree. From the regulars here I'd not hesitate.
Your choice, your loss.

Then download it from here.

https://www.leighjigs.com


While there has been some discussion of virus problems with PDF files,
for the most part they are inactive files, and very rarely do you have
problems with them.

Besides your virus program, (You do have a virus program?) will catch
any file that has a virus attached.

Do you download MS Word files?

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On 3/21/2016 9:23 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 3/21/2016 8:55 PM, notbob wrote:
On 2016-03-21, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

https://www.leighjigs.com/download/S...0Dec8%2015.pdf


Sorry. I don't dwnld PDF files proffered in newsgroups. Thnx anyway.

nb


From a stranger I'd agree. From the regulars here I'd not hesitate.
Your choice, your loss.


You may wish to read this

http://www.makeuseof.com/tag/spot-da...il-attachment/

Quote"In general, you should only open files with attachments that you
know are safe. For example, .jpg and .png are image files and should be
safe. .pdf, .docx, .xlsx, and .pptx are document files and should also
be safe €”"


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On 3/21/2016 10:55 PM, Bill wrote:
Leon wrote:
On 3/21/2016 7:55 PM, notbob wrote:
On 2016-03-21, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

https://www.leighjigs.com/download/S...0Dec8%2015.pdf


Sorry. I don't dwnld PDF files proffered in newsgroups. Thnx anyway.

nb

Understood. ;~)



So, pdf files can contain viruses???



Why do you think that Adobe changes their security settings on Acrobat
so often? ;!)

And besides, just because the link indicates that it goes to a PDF file
does not mean that it is actually doing that. Extensions can be easily
renamed.
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On 3/21/2016 11:18 PM, Bill wrote:
Bill wrote:
Leon wrote:
On 3/21/2016 7:55 PM, notbob wrote:
On 2016-03-21, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

https://www.leighjigs.com/download/S...0Dec8%2015.pdf


Sorry. I don't dwnld PDF files proffered in newsgroups. Thnx anyway.

nb

Understood. ;~)



So, pdf files can contain viruses???


I did a little reading on this, so no need to reply. OTOH, I just
updated my Adobe Reader, and it upgraded me to its new "DC" (cloud)
version--so the potential for troubles just increased, I think.



Ooops I replied before reading this. ;~)
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Keith Nuttle wrote:
On 3/21/2016 9:23 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 3/21/2016 8:55 PM, notbob wrote:
On 2016-03-21, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

https://www.leighjigs.com/download/S...0Dec8%2015.pdf



Sorry. I don't dwnld PDF files proffered in newsgroups. Thnx anyway.

nb


From a stranger I'd agree. From the regulars here I'd not hesitate.
Your choice, your loss.


You may wish to read this

http://www.makeuseof.com/tag/spot-da...il-attachment/

Quote"In general, you should only open files with attachments that you
know are safe. For example, .jpg and .png are image files and should
be safe. .pdf, .docx, .xlsx, and .pptx are document files and should
also be safe €”"


Given the macros that can be defined, I wasn't under the impression that
..docx files were safe.
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On 3/22/2016 7:52 AM, Keith Nuttle wrote:
On 3/21/2016 9:23 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 3/21/2016 8:55 PM, notbob wrote:
On 2016-03-21, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

https://www.leighjigs.com/download/S...0Dec8%2015.pdf



Sorry. I don't dwnld PDF files proffered in newsgroups. Thnx anyway.

nb


From a stranger I'd agree. From the regulars here I'd not hesitate.
Your choice, your loss.


You may wish to read this

http://www.makeuseof.com/tag/spot-da...il-attachment/

Quote"In general, you should only open files with attachments that you
know are safe. For example, .jpg and .png are image files and should be
safe. .pdf, .docx, .xlsx, and .pptx are document files and should also
be safe €”"



FWIW "are safe" and "should be safe" are not necessarily the same.
I recommend clicking links and downloading only if you feel comfortable
with doing so.
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On 3/22/2016 3:05 AM, whit3rd wrote:
On Sunday, March 20, 2016 at 12:37:59 PM UTC-7, notbob wrote:

..., I have plenty of dial
indicators and other machinist tools, but who makes wood cuts closer
than 1/64 of an inch (~0.015")?


Might not measure that close, but getting a tenon just right before applying
glue, is .005" or better. Those dial gages might help you adjust a fence for a
critical cut on a table saw. They definitely come in handy for table saw alignment.


quote: "Still, my buddy has a biscuit joiner tool."

For my purposes a slot cutter on a router table is far superior to a
biscuit joiner. As the pieces of wood get smaller the Biscuit Joiner
becomes less useful. Also with a slot cutter on a router table, you
get significantly better precision for positioning the slot.


On the comment "who makes wood cuts closer than 1/64 of an inch (~0.015")?".

Any time you make a series of cuts that result in a closed shape, a
1/64" is not sufficient. I make a lot of picture frames with mitered
corners. 1/64" will result in over an 1/8" or greater error in the
final joint. This is a significant gap. Even in a face frame for a
cabinet you may get a passable joint but not a good joint with a 1/64"
error in each cut.


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On 2016-03-22, Keith Nuttle wrote:

Do you download MS Word files?


Not if I can avoid it.

As I sed, I run Linux. Plus I've been on usenet fer more'n 13 yrs. I
see myself in this group long enough to learn the regulars.

nb
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On 2016-03-22, Keith Nuttle wrote:

quote: "Still, my buddy has a biscuit joiner tool."

For my purposes a slot cutter on a router table is far superior to a
biscuit joiner. As the pieces of wood get smaller the Biscuit Joiner
becomes less useful. Also with a slot cutter on a router table, you
get significantly better precision for positioning the slot.


OK! No mas. No bisky joints. Whew..... 8|

On the comment "who makes wood cuts closer than 1/64 of an inch (~0.015")?".

Any time you make a series of cuts that result in a closed shape, a
1/64" is not sufficient. I make a lot of picture frames with mitered
corners. 1/64" will result in over an 1/8" or greater error in the
final joint. This is a significant gap. Even in a face frame for a
cabinet you may get a passable joint but not a good joint with a 1/64"
error in each cut.


I asked, Keith answered.

Point noted, Keith. Thank you.

nb
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On 2016-03-22, Markem wrote:

Well if you do not like plastic Kreg pocket hole jigs ( I do )
Lee Valley has it covered.

http://www.leevalley.com/US/Wood/pag...at=1,180,42311


These products are "no longer available", but thank you for
answering.

nb
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On 2016-03-22, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

There is another poster here that is mispositioned against Jet because
of a faulty set screw or something like that, and he has pretty much
shunned the brand because of ignorance. I would dare say that the brand
is better than what he has produced.


Kinda funny, as Jet usta be considered cheap junk. Now --while not
exactly in Bridgeport territory-- it's more upscale, pricey,
acceptable. More than jes junk. (or is it?)

Anyway, keep an eye out for those in this group that "do" rather than
give opinions. Those people have a long list of woodworking
accomplishments and got there with a good solid knowledge about what
they are talking about.


You make a good point and one that will not be lost on me. I know how
to ignore trolls and my KF works better than most. Plus, I know how
to spot those that "do" vs those who jes talk. Thank you for the
advice.

nb
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On 2016-03-22, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

On 3/21/2016 9:23 PM, notbob wrote:


I finally looked up "locking rabbet" joint. Very interesting, but
will it work on 1/2" sides?


Absolutely!


Excellent!

I think you've made my choice, for me. I called our best
lumberyard/tool/cabinet shop and they sed they do not carry
pre-prepped sides in length, so I was looking for the joint which
would cost me the least in tools. So far, yer locking rabbet joint
looks to meet my criteria better than any other joint. So, thank you
for teaching me about a joint I was not even aware of.


I have a buddy, a master carpenter, who has a boatload of tools, so I
can barrow many from him. He definitely has a couple routers. Maybe
even a table. The stuff he definitely doesn't have, I'll purchase.
Today or tomorow, I'm buying the 1/4" size of these:

http://www.leevalley.com/us/wood/pag...90&cat=1,41504

.....as I or my buddy have nary a decent chisel fer miles. Next month,
I plan on a 1/2" B&D Sweetheart sckt chisel.

I've got my late brother's chisel (1"), but couldn't understand why it
was essentially ruined, the front edge reduced to a jagged wreck. I
later overheard someone talking (youtube?) about how carpenters always
carry a chisel to cut framing nails. Yikes! So that's what happened
to that poor chisel. That's a trick my brother never taught me.

nb


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On 3/22/2016 9:32 AM, notbob wrote:
On 2016-03-22, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

There is another poster here that is mispositioned against Jet because
of a faulty set screw or something like that, and he has pretty much
shunned the brand because of ignorance. I would dare say that the brand
is better than what he has produced.


Kinda funny, as Jet usta be considered cheap junk. Now --while not
exactly in Bridgeport territory-- it's more upscale, pricey,
acceptable. More than jes junk. (or is it?)


Jet has been pretty good for at least 20 years. FWIW a lot of
Powermatic and Jet differ only in color and name and maybe a few design
enhancements. Both are owned by the same company.





Anyway, keep an eye out for those in this group that "do" rather than
give opinions. Those people have a long list of woodworking
accomplishments and got there with a good solid knowledge about what
they are talking about.


You make a good point and one that will not be lost on me. I know how
to ignore trolls and my KF works better than most. Plus, I know how
to spot those that "do" vs those who jes talk. Thank you for the
advice.

nb


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On 3/22/2016 10:05 AM, notbob wrote:
On 2016-03-22, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

On 3/21/2016 9:23 PM, notbob wrote:


I finally looked up "locking rabbet" joint. Very interesting, but
will it work on 1/2" sides?


Absolutely!


Excellent!

I think you've made my choice, for me. I called our best
lumberyard/tool/cabinet shop and they sed they do not carry
pre-prepped sides in length, so I was looking for the joint which
would cost me the least in tools. So far, yer locking rabbet joint
looks to meet my criteria better than any other joint. So, thank you
for teaching me about a joint I was not even aware of.


Actually the was Swingman that pointed out the locking rabbet joint.

I mostly use this joint. It requires a sizeable investment for a
Festool Domino.

This is my Flickr account so you are probably safe in clicking. ;~)

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...posted-public/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...posted-public/

And FWIW I typically make drawers with 1/2" Baltic birch plywood.
Here before assembly

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...posted-public/


After assembly but before the reinforcement Domino tenons added, as seen
an the above links.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...posted-public/






I have a buddy, a master carpenter, who has a boatload of tools, so I
can barrow many from him. He definitely has a couple routers. Maybe
even a table. The stuff he definitely doesn't have, I'll purchase.
Today or tomorow, I'm buying the 1/4" size of these:

http://www.leevalley.com/us/wood/pag...90&cat=1,41504

....as I or my buddy have nary a decent chisel fer miles. Next month,
I plan on a 1/2" B&D Sweetheart sckt chisel.

I've got my late brother's chisel (1"), but couldn't understand why it
was essentially ruined, the front edge reduced to a jagged wreck. I
later overheard someone talking (youtube?) about how carpenters always
carry a chisel to cut framing nails.


Or open paint cans. ;~)



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On Tuesday, March 22, 2016 at 9:09:55 AM UTC-4, Bill wrote:
Keith Nuttle wrote:
On 3/21/2016 9:23 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 3/21/2016 8:55 PM, notbob wrote:
On 2016-03-21, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

https://www.leighjigs.com/download/S...0Dec8%2015.pdf



Sorry. I don't dwnld PDF files proffered in newsgroups. Thnx anyway.

nb


From a stranger I'd agree. From the regulars here I'd not hesitate.
Your choice, your loss.


You may wish to read this

http://www.makeuseof.com/tag/spot-da...il-attachment/

Quote"In general, you should only open files with attachments that you
know are safe. For example, .jpg and .png are image files and should
be safe. .pdf, .docx, .xlsx, and .pptx are document files and should
also be safe --"


Given the macros that can be defined, I wasn't under the impression that
.docx files were safe.


..docx files are OK, it's the .doc and .docm files that can be dangerous.

In the older versions of MS Office (prior to 2007) files using the default
extensions (.doc, .xls, .ppt) could be saved with macros. Those can be
dangerous.

In the newer versions of office, the default extensions (.docx, .xlsx, .pptx) can not be used with files that contain macros. You must use .docm, .xlsm, .xlsb, .pptm, etc. However (and this is a big "however") if a user wants to
save the newer version files in an earlier Office format (pre-2007), they can
still use .doc, .xls and .ppt even if the file contains macros.

So, MS Office docs with 4 character extensions that end with "x" are safe.
Docs with 4 character extensions that end with "m" or "b" and docs with 3 character extensions can be dangerous.
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Leon wrote:

And besides, just because the link indicates that it goes to a PDF
file does not mean that it is actually doing that. Extensions can be
easily renamed.

Yes, but on my computer, a file having extension .pdf is going to be
opened with Adobe Acrobat. I have read that if this occurs within a
browser, that the browser lends additional security.

Bill
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DerbyDad03 wrote:
.docx files are OK, it's the .doc and .docm files that can be
dangerous. In the older versions of MS Office (prior to 2007) files
using the default extensions (.doc, .xls, .ppt) could be saved with
macros. Those can be dangerous. In the newer versions of office, the
default extensions (.docx, .xlsx, .pptx) can not be used with files
that contain macros. You must use .docm, .xlsm, .xlsb, .pptm, etc.
However (and this is a big "however") if a user wants to save the
newer version files in an earlier Office format (pre-2007), they can
still use .doc, .xls and .ppt even if the file contains macros. So, MS
Office docs with 4 character extensions that end with "x" are safe.
Docs with 4 character extensions that end with "m" or "b" and docs
with 3 character extensions can be dangerous.

Thank you for updating my "security knowledge" with regard to this!

Bill


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On 3/22/2016 8:29 AM, Keith Nuttle wrote:

Any time you make a series of cuts that result in a closed shape, a
1/64" is not sufficient. I make a lot of picture frames with mitered
corners. 1/64" will result in over an 1/8" or greater error in the
final joint. This is a significant gap. Even in a face frame for a
cabinet you may get a passable joint but not a good joint with a 1/64"
error in each cut.


Exactly.

An even more graphic example of angular error when dealing with curved
parts, like those found in chair making:

https://picasaweb.google.com/1113554...8 40854584354

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whit3rd wrote in
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On Sunday, March 20, 2016 at 12:37:59 PM UTC-7, notbob wrote:

..., I have plenty of dial
indicators and other machinist tools, but who makes wood cuts closer
than 1/64 of an inch (~0.015")?


Might not measure that close, but getting a tenon just right before
applying glue, is .005" or better. Those dial gages might help you
adjust a fence for a critical cut on a table saw. They definitely
come in handy for table saw alignment.


Does anyone really measure that (the tenon, I mean)? Most
woodworkers do it the traditional way - cut it just a hair
thick, then use a plane to get an exact fit.

One of the differences between metalworking and woodworking
is that in woodworking it's usually easy to remove just a
hair at a time until something fits, whereas in metal it's
often difficult to take just a shave off.

Of course, you do have to make sure you're starting on the
fat side, since adding material is a pain either way.

John
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On 2016-03-27, John McCoy wrote:

One of the differences between metalworking and woodworking
is that in woodworking it's usually easy to remove just a
hair at a time until something fits, whereas in metal it's
often difficult to take just a shave off.


The main difference, as I see it, is that metalworking doesn't lend
itself, readily, to hand tools. Except for the file --like the plane
in woodworking-- and the hacksaw, there is not a lotta ways to remove
material. Wood? I've seen carpenters square a log with an axe.

A perfect example

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aWfnc3RKic0

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On Sunday, March 27, 2016 at 8:25:41 AM UTC-7, John McCoy wrote:
whit3rd wrote in
:

On Sunday, March 20, 2016 at 12:37:59 PM UTC-7, notbob wrote:

..., I have plenty of dial
indicators and other machinist tools, but who makes wood cuts closer
than 1/64 of an inch (~0.015")?


Might not measure that close, but getting a tenon just right before
applying glue, is .005" or better.


Does anyone really measure that (the tenon, I mean)?


If you cut tenons with two-saws-and-spacer on a table saw, that's
about how critical the spacer is. I've built some screw-adjustable jigs
that need adjustment to that accuracy, for sliding dovetails.

I've built bookshelves with sliding dovetails, using jigs for routing
the shelves and grooves, If the jigs are accurate and adjusted right,
you just crank the cuts out and all the parts fit, about that tight,


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On 3/27/2016 6:57 PM, J. Clarke wrote:

One does wonder what tools the Greeks used to make things like the
Antikythera Mechanism.


Since it is Europe, their power tools were all 220V. Saws were sculpted
from marble so the tables were really flat.
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