I seldom get a catalog any more and their web site no longer has one.
You now must use the "Screw Selector" and it leaves screws out.

Where do you buy your "quality" square drive screws?

On 9/21/2015 12:48 PM, Leon wrote:
I seldom get a catalog any more and their web site no longer has one.
You now must use the "Screw Selector" and it leaves screws out.

Where do you buy your "quality" square drive screws?
yea, I noticed that too.
Also having a tough time locating simple screws..
Seems like they went off the deep end.
Not a great design.

I think many sites lose track of simplicity.
to many of the young crowd (developers) they think it's intuitive.
But not to me. Too many make it easy so they can develop it, but not so
it's functionable.

--
Jeff

On 09/21/2015 11:48 AM, Leon wrote:
I seldom get a catalog any more and their web site no longer has one.
You now must use the "Screw Selector" and it leaves screws out.

Where do you buy your "quality" square drive screws?

Haven't had any recent need so no direct contact suggestion.

I did look at the McF web site; it appears to be using the same package
at the Grainger site. Not terribly surprising once the Grainger
accounting folks got McFeely fully integrated.

As for the question specifically, I'd probably use the "live chat" or
contact tech support by (gasp!) actually dialing the phone and see how
it goes when ask for the specific product. That'll probably immediately
tell you whether it's time to switch vendors or they're still capable
_despite_ corporate.

--

In article , lcb11211
@swbelldotnet says...

I seldom get a catalog any more and their web site no longer has one.
You now must use the "Screw Selector" and it leaves screws out.

??? There's a picture of a cell phone about a third of the way down on
the right side of the main page and next to it "ANYWHERE ANY DEVICE
CATALOG" that, when you click it, opens a catalog. It's a crappily
implemented catalog that seems to take forever and a day to load a page
and gives the impression that it's nothing but blank pages until you let
it sit for a while, but it _is_ a catalog.

Where do you buy your "quality" square drive screws?

I haven't ordered screws in quite some time, however the last time I did
I think it was from Highland Hardware. If I needed some right now I'd
probably try the Fastenal down the street. McMaster of course has just
about anything.

"Leon" wrote:

I seldom get a catalog any more and their web site no longer has one.
You now must use the "Screw Selector" and it leaves screws out.

Where do you buy your "quality" square drive screws?

------------------------------------------------
Check out Jamestown Distributors.

Excellent marine supplier.

May be a tad expensive.

Lew

On Mon, 21 Sep 2015 15:03:20 -0400, woodchucker
wrote:

On 9/21/2015 12:48 PM, Leon wrote:
I seldom get a catalog any more and their web site no longer has one.
You now must use the "Screw Selector" and it leaves screws out.

Where do you buy your "quality" square drive screws?
yea, I noticed that too.
Also having a tough time locating simple screws..
Seems like they went off the deep end.
Not a great design.

I think many sites lose track of simplicity.
to many of the young crowd (developers) they think it's intuitive.
But not to me. Too many make it easy so they can develop it, but not so
it's functionable.

No kidding, I find that everywhere, what happened to the expression
tell it to me as though I were an idiot. Now I'm not getting any
younger but it seems like making it flashy is more important then
making it work. Hmmm kind of like are government.

Mike M

On 9/21/2015 2:03 PM, woodchucker wrote:
On 9/21/2015 12:48 PM, Leon wrote:
I seldom get a catalog any more and their web site no longer has one.
You now must use the "Screw Selector" and it leaves screws out.

Where do you buy your "quality" square drive screws?
yea, I noticed that too.
Also having a tough time locating simple screws..
Seems like they went off the deep end.
Not a great design.


Exactly, thank goodness I had a part number. After 30 minutes I got
tired of hunting.



I think many sites lose track of simplicity.
to many of the young crowd (developers) they think it's intuitive.
But not to me. Too many make it easy so they can develop it, but not so
it's functionable.

On 9/21/2015 2:36 PM, dpb wrote:
On 09/21/2015 11:48 AM, Leon wrote:
I seldom get a catalog any more and their web site no longer has one.
You now must use the "Screw Selector" and it leaves screws out.

Where do you buy your "quality" square drive screws?

Haven't had any recent need so no direct contact suggestion.

I did look at the McF web site; it appears to be using the same package
at the Grainger site. Not terribly surprising once the Grainger
accounting folks got McFeely fully integrated.

As for the question specifically, I'd probably use the "live chat" or
contact tech support by (gasp!) actually dialing the phone and see how
it goes when ask for the specific product.

I tried the live chat. I waited 5 minutes for every response and each
seemed to be referring me to click on something that did not exist.
And then the responses were so illiterate that I think Hodgi was doing
the typing.

I hate calling. I would rather browse.





That'll probably immediately
tell you whether it's time to switch vendors or they're still capable
_despite_ corporate.

I do believe it is time.

On 9/21/2015 4:27 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
In article , lcb11211
@swbelldotnet says...

I seldom get a catalog any more and their web site no longer has one.
You now must use the "Screw Selector" and it leaves screws out.

??? There's a picture of a cell phone about a third of the way down on
the right side of the main page and next to it "ANYWHERE ANY DEVICE
CATALOG" that, when you click it, opens a catalog. It's a crappily
implemented catalog that seems to take forever and a day to load a page
and gives the impression that it's nothing but blank pages until you let
it sit for a while, but it _is_ a catalog.


I use their chat and the "who ever" indicated to look for a telephone.
I never found it.

Now I found it. I saw that and thought it was an app. thank you.


Where do you buy your "quality" square drive screws?

I haven't ordered screws in quite some time, however the last time I did
I think it was from Highland Hardware. If I needed some right now I'd
probably try the Fastenal down the street. McMaster of course has just
about anything.



I'll look at Highland and Fastenal. I tried McMaster and was
unsuccessful. Strangely enough.

On 9/21/2015 4:30 PM, Lew Hodgett wrote:
"Leon" wrote:

I seldom get a catalog any more and their web site no longer has one.
You now must use the "Screw Selector" and it leaves screws out.

Where do you buy your "quality" square drive screws?

------------------------------------------------
Check out Jamestown Distributors.

Excellent marine supplier.

May be a tad expensive.

Lew

I found Quick Screws. They beat the hell out of McFeeleys on price but
limited selection. I'll take a look at Jamestown.

Expensive is an inexpensive screw that breaks. ;~)

Thanks Lew.

On 9/21/2015 11:48 AM, Leon wrote:
I seldom get a catalog any more and their web site no longer has one.
You now must use the "Screw Selector" and it leaves screws out.

Where do you buy your "quality" square drive screws?


O! M! G!

I found Festool Screws! ;~)

http://www.highlandwoodworking.com/f...ax-screws.aspx

On Monday, September 21, 2015 at 5:26:07 PM UTC-5, Leon wrote:

I'll look at Highland and Fastenal. I tried McMaster and was
unsuccessful. Strangely enough.

After my recent unsatisfactory experience with Spax, I decided that they do have their use, but I can't carry a hardware store of different screws with me. I need a good, strong, 3 - 3 1/4" screw, and when I saw the Spax at 3 1/4' (or something close) I bit. They are OK, and when in a place where I can get over the screws they are great.

For what I do, they are OK. But I now have about 250 or so of them, and will use them all since I found that the sell the genuine Spax driver separately for about a buck and a half.

After that, off to Fastenal, or like Lew said, Jamestown. Many years ago, I think at Lew's suggestion, I bought a bunch of all stainless screw for a large commercial repair. They were excellent quality, and in the end, I didn't care about the price since I was so pleased with the product.

Robert

On 9/21/2015 3:36 PM, dpb wrote:
On 09/21/2015 11:48 AM, Leon wrote:
I seldom get a catalog any more and their web site no longer has one.
You now must use the "Screw Selector" and it leaves screws out.

Where do you buy your "quality" square drive screws?

Haven't had any recent need so no direct contact suggestion.

I did look at the McF web site; it appears to be using the same package
at the Grainger site. Not terribly surprising once the Grainger
accounting folks got McFeely fully integrated.

As for the question specifically, I'd probably use the "live chat" or
contact tech support by (gasp!) actually dialing the phone and see how
it goes when ask for the specific product. That'll probably immediately
tell you whether it's time to switch vendors or they're still capable
_despite_ corporate.

--


Oh really? That explains alot. Grainger is one of the worst sites. I
think all the hard goods guys. Enco, MSC... they suck too.



--
Jeff

On 9/21/2015 12:48 PM, Leon wrote:
I seldom get a catalog any more and their web site no longer has one.
You now must use the "Screw Selector" and it leaves screws out.

Where do you buy your "quality" square drive screws?

The original McFeelys had a wealth of information too. Gone. All sorts
of information on selecting the proper screw is nowhere to been seen
these days.

On 9/21/2015 3:36 PM, dpb wrote:


I did look at the McF web site; it appears to be using the same package
at the Grainger site. Not terribly surprising once the Grainger
accounting folks got McFeely fully integrated.


I used to buy from Grainger a couple of times a month, the old fashioned
way over the phone. At some point both Grainger an McMaster put up web
sites. I hate using the Granger web site and order maybe once a year.
McMaster is easy to use and gets 99% of the business..

In article
Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet writes:
I seldom get a catalog any more and their web site no longer has one.
You now must use the "Screw Selector" and it leaves screws out.

I have a 2015 catalog that came along with my last order (I forget
whether I checked something to request a catalog).



--
In Dr. Johnson's famous dictionary patriotism is defined as the
last resort of the scoundrel. With all due respect to an enlightened
but inferior lexicographer I beg to submit that it is the first.
-- Ambrose Bierce

In article ,
says...

On 9/21/2015 12:48 PM, Leon wrote:
I seldom get a catalog any more and their web site no longer has one.
You now must use the "Screw Selector" and it leaves screws out.

Where do you buy your "quality" square drive screws?

The original McFeelys had a wealth of information too. Gone. All sorts
of information on selecting the proper screw is nowhere to been seen
these days.

I just read through the online catalog and it's mostly there.
The catalog remains a pain though, however once it downloads it seems to
stay downloaded.

On 9/21/2015 5:50 PM, wrote:
On Monday, September 21, 2015 at 5:26:07 PM UTC-5, Leon wrote:

I'll look at Highland and Fastenal. I tried McMaster and was
unsuccessful. Strangely enough.

After my recent unsatisfactory experience with Spax, I decided that
they do have their use, but I can't carry a hardware store of
different screws with me. I need a good, strong, 3 - 3 1/4" screw,
and when I saw the Spax at 3 1/4' (or something close) I bit. They
are OK, and when in a place where I can get over the screws they are
great.

For what I do, they are OK. But I now have about 250 or so of them,
and will use them all since I found that the sell the genuine Spax
driver separately for about a buck and a half.

After that, off to Fastenal, or like Lew said, Jamestown. Many years
ago, I think at Lew's suggestion, I bought a bunch of all stainless
screw for a large commercial repair. They were excellent quality,
and in the end, I didn't care about the price since I was so pleased
with the product.

Robert


Wow Thanks Robert. I already forgot that a lot of the Spax screws use
the Torx Plus drive. That alone is a problem for me. The older Fein
Multimasters use that drive and I find I have to be deliberate when
inserting the wrench, not like square drive. And that is with the
wrench in my hand going relatively straight in. With a screw you seldom
start straight and the bit is 8~10" from your hand.

Kim almost pulled the trigger for me when she saw the Spax/Festool screw
assortment, 1300 screws with Festool Systainer. Really a good deal.

Anyway don't let your Spax screw experience detour you from all Spax. I
don't use many Spax screws but HD carries Spax Lag Screws. They have
the expected hex head that you put a common wrench or socket on and they
are much higher quality and stronger than the common lag screw. I used
them to hang my lumber rack on the wall. I did not want to break a 5"
lag screw.

On 9/21/2015 5:50 PM, wrote:
On Monday, September 21, 2015 at 5:26:07 PM UTC-5, Leon wrote:

I'll look at Highland and Fastenal. I tried McMaster and was
unsuccessful. Strangely enough.

After my recent unsatisfactory experience with Spax, I decided that
they do have their use, but I can't carry a hardware store of
different screws with me. I need a good, strong, 3 - 3 1/4" screw,
and when I saw the Spax at 3 1/4' (or something close) I bit. They
are OK, and when in a place where I can get over the screws they are
great.

For what I do, they are OK. But I now have about 250 or so of them,
and will use them all since I found that the sell the genuine Spax
driver separately for about a buck and a half.

After that, off to Fastenal, or like Lew said, Jamestown. Many years
ago, I think at Lew's suggestion, I bought a bunch of all stainless
screw for a large commercial repair. They were excellent quality,
and in the end, I didn't care about the price since I was so pleased
with the product.

Robert


FWIW the Festool/Spax screw assortment from Highland has all
combo/Philips heads according to a rep.

This is a great deal but I really don't use flat top screws anymore
these days. ;~(

On Tuesday, September 22, 2015 at 8:44:02 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote:

With a screw you seldom
start straight and the bit is 8~10" from your hand.

Exactly my problem. I encountered this when trying to attach a runner under a cabinet that was wet for some time, then the "legs" of the carcass began to rot. With a new marble top going on and me unable to remove the cabinets without tearing up the wall treatments, I decided to get my butt face down on the floor and reach under the cabinets to attach new legs/runners when the kick was off. This became a project unto itself, with me resorting to starting the screw on the 2x4, then positioning it, and finally driving the screw.

Not a chance.

After a about a half hour of wrestling with them, I went out to the truck and got some square drive, galvanized screws that were on plastic tape for a screw gun. Problem solved. Spax, back in the tool box.

Anyway don't let your Spax screw experience detour you from all Spax. I
don't use many Spax screws but HD carries Spax Lag Screws. They have
the expected hex head that you put a common wrench or socket on and they
are much higher quality and stronger than the common lag screw. I used
them to hang my lumber rack on the wall. I did not want to break a 5"
lag screw.

I wouldn't hesitate to buy Spax for a specific job or purpose, but I want utility type screws for my everyday repairs. I often find myself reaching inside framing structures, inside walls, and generally in tight places where I can't be right over the work with the driver nearly perpendicular to the work. I saw those whopper Spax screws... impressive.

When I finally get to Fastenal, I will let you know if I find something for general utility use.

Robert

On Monday, September 21, 2015 at 5:33:42 PM UTC-4, Mike M wrote:
On Mon, 21 Sep 2015 15:03:20 -0400, woodchucker
wrote:

On 9/21/2015 12:48 PM, Leon wrote:
I seldom get a catalog any more and their web site no longer has one.
You now must use the "Screw Selector" and it leaves screws out.

Where do you buy your "quality" square drive screws?
yea, I noticed that too.
Also having a tough time locating simple screws..
Seems like they went off the deep end.
Not a great design.

I think many sites lose track of simplicity.
to many of the young crowd (developers) they think it's intuitive.
But not to me. Too many make it easy so they can develop it, but not so
it's functionable.

No kidding, I find that everywhere, what happened to the expression
tell it to me as though I were an idiot. Now I'm not getting any
younger but it seems like making it flashy is more important then
making it work. Hmmm kind of like are government.

Mike M

If you want to hear about the ridiculous process for developing a government website, listen to this podcast:

https://soundcloud.com/replyall/34-dmv-nation

On 9/21/2015 5:50 PM, wrote:

I didn't care about the price since I was so pleased with the product.

We can't have that attitude around here.
It causes butthut ...

--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
https://www.google.com/+eWoodShop
https://plus.google.com/+KarlCaillouet/posts
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

On 9/21/2015 5:50 PM, wrote:
After my recent unsatisfactory experience with Spax, I decided that they do have their use, but I can't carry a hardware store of different screws with me. I need a good, strong, 3 - 3 1/4" screw, and when I saw the Spax at 3 1/4' (or something close) I bit. They are OK, and when in a place where I can get over the screws they are great.

I use Spax mostly for when I need something to withstand sheer force and
has has a smaller head/will be plugged or out of sight. And yes, best to
use their included driver bit if you want good results.

For installing side by side cabinet runs I've had good luck with FastCap
cabinet screws; and they can fitted with a plastic cap for appearance if
necessary.

The 1 1/4 size and that big head insure they will not penetrate two
layers of 3/4" plywood casework

I carry two sizes of these in the truck:

https://picasaweb.google.com/1113554...94446452840 2

Mostly filled with #8 square drive screws from Circle Saw here in
Houston. Also buy Rockler for those cases where I'm sure they will not
twist off (have learned to pre-drill the longer Rockler screws in
hardwoods to be safe).

Except for Spax, drywall and deck screws, I rarely buy any screw from
the Borgs.

--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
https://www.google.com/+eWoodShop
https://plus.google.com/+KarlCaillouet/posts
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

On 9/22/2015 11:41 PM, wrote:
On Tuesday, September 22, 2015 at 8:44:02 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote:

With a screw you seldom
start straight and the bit is 8~10" from your hand.

Exactly my problem. I encountered this when trying to attach a runner under a cabinet that was wet for some time, then the "legs" of the carcass began to rot. With a new marble top going on and me unable to remove the cabinets without tearing up the wall treatments, I decided to get my butt face down on the floor and reach under the cabinets to attach new legs/runners when the kick was off. This became a project unto itself, with me resorting to starting the screw on the 2x4, then positioning it, and finally driving the screw.

Not a chance.

After a about a half hour of wrestling with them, I went out to the truck and got some square drive, galvanized screws that were on plastic tape for a screw gun. Problem solved. Spax, back in the tool box.

Anyway don't let your Spax screw experience detour you from all Spax. I
don't use many Spax screws but HD carries Spax Lag Screws. They have
the expected hex head that you put a common wrench or socket on and they
are much higher quality and stronger than the common lag screw. I used
them to hang my lumber rack on the wall. I did not want to break a 5"
lag screw.

I wouldn't hesitate to buy Spax for a specific job or purpose, but I want utility type screws for my everyday repairs. I often find myself reaching inside framing structures, inside walls, and generally in tight places where I can't be right over the work with the driver nearly perpendicular to the work. I saw those whopper Spax screws... impressive.

When I finally get to Fastenal, I will let you know if I find something for general utility use.

Robert

;~)

I went to a local Fastenal yesterday looking for #6, 5/8" washer or pan
head screws. No luck. Odd screw anyway.

I finally ended up finding the online catalog on the McFeeley web site,
thanks to J.Clarke. I found what I needed and ordered. I did order
1,000 of the Spax #6, 5/8", pan head, self taping, combo screws. Those
are only supposed to be square and Phillips. We'll see.

I tried Quick Screws. An order of 1000 similar screws was about $18.
+$2 handling + $12.95 shipping. I passed. McFeeleys was only $8.95 for
shipping. Ended up being a couple of dollars cheaper with a #1 square
drive bit for the Spax screws and 100, 1-1/8 washer head screws for
attaching drawer fronts.

Unfortunately HD does not carry much of what I need so I try to buy in
bulk on every project screws.

On another note the last box of "deck" screws that I bought, about 3
years ago I was not pleased. What ever brand Lowe's sells with the star
bit drive and yellow color. I built a small porch/deck for our storage
shed and I would say that 5~8 screws have broken several months after
being driven. The same screws were used inside the shed for shelving
with no issues. The boards that had the broken screws warped, so I am
sure that is why the screws broke but damn those screws were being used
exactly for what they were intended. Other brand replacement screws
pulled the boards back down into position and are doing fine up to this
point.

Concerning the cool deal at Highland Hardware, the Festool box with the
1,300 Spax screws, I verified that they were all combo and not torx.
BUT all were flat head and I seldom use that screw any more. I steer
more towards washer head and pan head screws, when I use them. The Kreg
screws are pretty darn good for most any use.

On 9/23/2015 8:41 PM, krw wrote:


Government never does a cost/benefit analysis.


Congress does. They simplified the process. If it benefits us, the
cost to the taxpayer does not matter.

On Thursday, September 24, 2015 at 9:10:58 AM UTC-5, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

Congress does. They simplified the process. If it benefits us, the
cost to the taxpayer does not matter.

Amen, brother!

I have several folks in my social group that work for the government, and the way they describe the waste (explained to me as , "since when is providing jobs/employment a waste?") for people that do nothing is incredible.

One has a govt job that has a section of about 45 people. There is so little work that they actually bid on the work to be done against their fellow employees, and then the folks that don't bid have nothing to do. They are written up if they have 3 months in a row with little or no production, but since they are only making about $60K a year each, the govt doesn't fuss that much over the small potatoes.

Robert

On 9/24/2015 4:28 PM, wrote:
On Thursday, September 24, 2015 at 9:10:58 AM UTC-5, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

Congress does. They simplified the process. If it benefits us, the
cost to the taxpayer does not matter.

Amen, brother!

I have several folks in my social group that work for the government, and the way they describe the waste (explained to me as , "since when is providing jobs/employment a waste?") for people that do nothing is incredible.

One has a govt job that has a section of about 45 people. There is so little work that they actually bid on the work to be done against their fellow employees, and then the folks that don't bid have nothing to do. They are written up if they have 3 months in a row with little or no production, but since they are only making about $60K a year each, the govt doesn't fuss that much over the small potatoes.

Found out the other day, talking to a new mail carrier, that this is how
the USPS is awarding carrier jobs in the area.

Current employee's actually bid on available routes.

--
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http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

On Thu, 24 Sep 2015 10:21:10 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 9/23/2015 8:41 PM, krw wrote:


Government never does a cost/benefit analysis.


Congress does. They simplified the process. If it benefits us, the
cost to the taxpayer does not matter.

No, they don't. They use numbers to justify what they're going to do
anyway. BTW, the CBO, by law, uses static scoring. Hate to break it
to them but the world is quite dynamic.

Swingman wrote in
:


Found out the other day, talking to a new mail carrier, that this is
how the USPS is awarding carrier jobs in the area.

Current employee's actually bid on available routes.

Nothing odd there, that's how union jobs are usually handled.
Airlines, railroads, post office, they all work that way.

John

On Friday, September 25, 2015 at 10:54:47 AM UTC-5, John McCoy wrote:
Swingman wrote in
:


Found out the other day, talking to a new mail carrier, that this is
how the USPS is awarding carrier jobs in the area.

Current employee's actually bid on available routes.

Nothing odd there, that's how union jobs are usually handled.
Airlines, railroads, post office, they all work that way.

John

Man... I am so out of touch with the rest of the world sometimes. I have been self employed for over thirty years now and it never has occurred to me (except in a cigar smoke and whiskey induced pleasant dream) of being able to pick and choose my work or how hard I would like to work that week or month. I cannot in my wildest dreams imagine being very well paid and then getting to decide what I wanted to do and how hard I wanted to work.

I never worked for anyone that gave me a choice, either. I was paid a wage about 40+ years ago, then have worked for myself or on commission only for the rest of the time. I am amazed at the concept of 3 week plus vacations, 10 days paid sick/personal time a year, and all kinds of other things that go on in the workplace now as nearly a case of American Civil Rights.

When I started in the trades in the 70s, I worked for a very progressive guy that let us have 1 week vacation (unheard of for trades people then)that was UNPAID. No sick days. He worked all of us like rented mules, and if we didn't like it that was fine. You could always quit. Or get fired. His hourly pay was low, but we had a ton of overtime weekly, he paid time and a half, and his checks never bounced.

I could never in a million years imagine approaching that mean old hard case from Jasper, Texas to tell him I wanted to bid on the work I was interested in.

Gawd, I feel like a dinosaur.

Robert

" wrote in
:

On Friday, September 25, 2015 at 10:54:47 AM UTC-5, John McCoy wrote:
Swingman wrote in
:


Found out the other day, talking to a new mail carrier, that this
is how the USPS is awarding carrier jobs in the area.

Current employee's actually bid on available routes.

Nothing odd there, that's how union jobs are usually handled.
Airlines, railroads, post office, they all work that way.

John

Man... I am so out of touch with the rest of the world sometimes. I
have been self employed for over thirty years now and it never has
occurred to me (except in a cigar smoke and whiskey induced pleasant
dream) of being able to pick and choose my work or how hard I would
like to work that week or month. I cannot in my wildest dreams imagine
being very well paid and then getting to decide what I wanted to do
and how hard I wanted to work.

OK, I think you're misunderstanding how this works. There's
a set number of jobs (postal routes, whatever), that matches
the number of workers. Guys bid on which one they want. The
bidder with highest seniority wins. Typically, the new guy
ends up with the least desirable job - worst hours, least
overtime, grouchiest customers or whatever. Then they work
that job every day until something changes (a new route is
added, or something), then everyone bids again.

I can use my buddy at the railroad as an example. Last time
they rearranged jobs and everyone had to rebid, he had two
he bid on (he's in the middle of the seniority rank, so no
point bidding on the best jobs). One was a day job that
usually worked 8 hours, the other went on at 3am but usually
got a couple hours overtime each day. A lot of guys wouldn't
bid the 3am job, even tho it paid better, because of the
hours. My buddy actually likes working nights, so he was
pleased to win that job.

John

On Friday, September 25, 2015 at 3:38:24 PM UTC-4, John McCoy wrote:
" wrote in
:

On Friday, September 25, 2015 at 10:54:47 AM UTC-5, John McCoy wrote:
Swingman wrote in
:


Found out the other day, talking to a new mail carrier, that this
is how the USPS is awarding carrier jobs in the area.

Current employee's actually bid on available routes.

Nothing odd there, that's how union jobs are usually handled.
Airlines, railroads, post office, they all work that way.

John

Man... I am so out of touch with the rest of the world sometimes. I
have been self employed for over thirty years now and it never has
occurred to me (except in a cigar smoke and whiskey induced pleasant
dream) of being able to pick and choose my work or how hard I would
like to work that week or month. I cannot in my wildest dreams imagine
being very well paid and then getting to decide what I wanted to do
and how hard I wanted to work.

OK, I think you're misunderstanding how this works. There's
a set number of jobs (postal routes, whatever), that matches
the number of workers. Guys bid on which one they want. The
bidder with highest seniority wins. Typically, the new guy
ends up with the least desirable job - worst hours, least
overtime, grouchiest customers or whatever. Then they work
that job every day until something changes (a new route is
added, or something), then everyone bids again.

I can use my buddy at the railroad as an example. Last time
they rearranged jobs and everyone had to rebid, he had two
he bid on (he's in the middle of the seniority rank, so no
point bidding on the best jobs). One was a day job that
usually worked 8 hours, the other went on at 3am but usually
got a couple hours overtime each day. A lot of guys wouldn't
bid the 3am job, even tho it paid better, because of the
hours. My buddy actually likes working nights, so he was
pleased to win that job.

John

Could you define "bid" this context? Does it simply mean "choose"?

There's a list of jobs and you choose from what's left when it's your turn, based on your seniority rank, right?

On 9/25/2015 2:36 PM, John McCoy wrote:

Nothing odd there, that's how union jobs are usually handled.
Airlines, railroads, post office, they all work that way.

Yep, and in a nutshell why we see such mediocre performance from
entities where jobs are based on politics instead of market forces.

--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
https://www.google.com/+eWoodShop
https://plus.google.com/+KarlCaillouet/posts
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

On Sat, 26 Sep 2015 03:43:24 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Friday, September 25, 2015 at 3:38:24 PM UTC-4, John McCoy wrote:
" wrote in
:

On Friday, September 25, 2015 at 10:54:47 AM UTC-5, John McCoy wrote:
Swingman wrote in
:


Found out the other day, talking to a new mail carrier, that this
is how the USPS is awarding carrier jobs in the area.

Current employee's actually bid on available routes.

Nothing odd there, that's how union jobs are usually handled.
Airlines, railroads, post office, they all work that way.

John

Man... I am so out of touch with the rest of the world sometimes. I
have been self employed for over thirty years now and it never has
occurred to me (except in a cigar smoke and whiskey induced pleasant
dream) of being able to pick and choose my work or how hard I would
like to work that week or month. I cannot in my wildest dreams imagine
being very well paid and then getting to decide what I wanted to do
and how hard I wanted to work.

OK, I think you're misunderstanding how this works. There's
a set number of jobs (postal routes, whatever), that matches
the number of workers. Guys bid on which one they want. The
bidder with highest seniority wins. Typically, the new guy
ends up with the least desirable job - worst hours, least
overtime, grouchiest customers or whatever. Then they work
that job every day until something changes (a new route is
added, or something), then everyone bids again.

I can use my buddy at the railroad as an example. Last time
they rearranged jobs and everyone had to rebid, he had two
he bid on (he's in the middle of the seniority rank, so no
point bidding on the best jobs). One was a day job that
usually worked 8 hours, the other went on at 3am but usually
got a couple hours overtime each day. A lot of guys wouldn't
bid the 3am job, even tho it paid better, because of the
hours. My buddy actually likes working nights, so he was
pleased to win that job.

John

Could you define "bid" this context? Does it simply mean "choose"?

Yes, it seems that "choose" is a better term, here. If it were a
"bid" one would say "I'll do that job for $xx,xxx per year.", or some
such.

There's a list of jobs and you choose from what's left when it's your turn, based on your seniority rank, right?

DerbyDad03 wrote in
:

Could you define "bid" this context? Does it simply mean "choose"?

There's a list of jobs and you choose from what's left when it's your
turn, based on your seniority rank, right?

Not exactly. There's a list of jobs, and everyone bids at
the same time. Highest seniority guy bidding on a particular
job wins it.

If you don't win the job you bid on, you stay in your current
job, unless someone with higher seniority bid on it. If that
happens you get a "roll", and you get to pick from the jobs
held by lower seniority guys. That propagates down the chain
until everyone is in a job.

It sounds like it could get messy, but in practice everyone
knows their seniority, and which jobs different people like,
so guys just bid the job they know they'll get. Pretty much
the only thing that scrambles it up is when an older guy
decides to move from a job with lots of overtime to one with
fewer hours (because he doesn't need the money and wants to
take it easy for the his few years). Then you have a high
seniority guy bidding on what's usually a low seniority job,
and a low seniority guy might end up in the primo job if he's
the only one who took a chance bidding on it.

(note - I've never actually worked that sort of union job,
so this is based on how I understand what my buddy at the
railroad has explained)

John

On Saturday, September 26, 2015 at 10:09:24 AM UTC-4, John McCoy wrote:
DerbyDad03 wrote in
:

Could you define "bid" this context? Does it simply mean "choose"?

There's a list of jobs and you choose from what's left when it's your
turn, based on your seniority rank, right?

Not exactly. There's a list of jobs, and everyone bids at
the same time. Highest seniority guy bidding on a particular
job wins it.

If you don't win the job you bid on, you stay in your current
job, unless someone with higher seniority bid on it. If that
happens you get a "roll", and you get to pick from the jobs
held by lower seniority guys. That propagates down the chain
until everyone is in a job.

It sounds like it could get messy, but in practice everyone
knows their seniority, and which jobs different people like,
so guys just bid the job they know they'll get. Pretty much
the only thing that scrambles it up is when an older guy
decides to move from a job with lots of overtime to one with
fewer hours (because he doesn't need the money and wants to
take it easy for the his few years). Then you have a high
seniority guy bidding on what's usually a low seniority job,
and a low seniority guy might end up in the primo job if he's
the only one who took a chance bidding on it.

(note - I've never actually worked that sort of union job,
so this is based on how I understand what my buddy at the
railroad has explained)

John

I still don't understand your use of the word "bid". As far as I know, to "bid" on something usually involves money.

"I won the auction because I bid higher than everyone else."

"I got the contract because I bid lower than everyone else."

I assume that these guys aren't paying the jobs or taking a lower salary to get them, so how is this a "bidding" process?

DerbyDad03 wrote in
:

I still don't understand your use of the word "bid". As far as I know,
to "bid" on something usually involves money.

"Bid" is the word that's used. I assume by analogy with
bidding on a contract to provide some service, but I don't
know the background of it.

John

On 9/27/2015 3:23 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:

I still don't understand your use of the word "bid". As far as I know, to "bid" on something
usually involves money.
"I won the auction because I bid higher than everyone else."

"I got the contract because I bid lower than everyone else."

I assume that these guys aren't paying the jobs or taking a lower
salary to get them, so how is this a "bidding" process?

Bidding is tendering an offer for something,usually in an auction style
format. The something could be anything, like a car, or a job, or a wife.

What the offer you are tendering could be money, years of service, or goats.

I bid 3 goats for your daughter, I bid 20 years service for that job, I
big 200 gold bars for that Festool vacuum.

--
Jack
Add Life to your Days not Days to your Life.
http://jbstein.com

Jack wrote in :


Bidding is tendering an offer for something,usually in an auction
style format. The something could be anything, like a car, or a job,
or a wife.

What the offer you are tendering could be money, years of service, or
goats.

I bid 3 goats for your daughter, I bid 20 years service for that job,
I big 200 gold bars for that Festool vacuum.


I don't have any of those things, but 200 gold bars for a Festool vacuum?
I'll get one!

You'd have to offer a lot more than 3 goats for a daughter nowadays.
Haven't you heard of inflation?

Puckdropper
--
Make it to fit, don't make it fit.

In article om,
Puckdropper says...

Jack wrote in :


Bidding is tendering an offer for something,usually in an auction
style format. The something could be anything, like a car, or a job,
or a wife.

What the offer you are tendering could be money, years of service, or
goats.

I bid 3 goats for your daughter, I bid 20 years service for that job,
I big 200 gold bars for that Festool vacuum.


I don't have any of those things, but 200 gold bars for a Festool vacuum?
I'll get one!

You'd have to offer a lot more than 3 goats for a daughter nowadays.
Haven't you heard of inflation?

But you haven't met the daughter in question--3 goats might be
excessive.