I'm going to make an insulated solar kiln to dry out 6 -8 foot stock. Any advice. It's just going to be an insulated box with repurposed house windows tilted at 45 degrees (Wisconsin) and a small fan to circulate air. Any important things I need to keep in mind?

Thanks.

On Monday, March 10, 2014 2:59:54 PM UTC-5, Michael wrote:
I'm going to make an insulated solar kiln to dry out 6 -8 foot stock. Any advice. It's just going to be an insulated box with repurposed house windows tilted at 45 degrees (Wisconsin) and a small fan to circulate air. Any important things I need to keep in mind? Thanks.

Might not need a fan to circulate the air. Tilt the kiln about 30 degrees, make a small vent at the upper end and the warmer air should rise to and out the vent. Screen the vents to keep any bugs, especially wasps, out.

Sonny

On 03/10/2014 12:59 PM, Michael wrote:
I'm going to make an insulated solar kiln to dry out 6 -8 foot stock. Any advice. It's just going to be an insulated box with repurposed house windows tilted at 45 degrees (Wisconsin) and a small fan to circulate air. Any important things I need to keep in mind?

Thanks.

If it dries unevenly or too fast, you can always use the lumber to build
a boat.


--
"Socialism is a philosophy of failure,the creed of ignorance, and the
gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery"
-Winston Churchill

On 3/10/2014 5:50 PM, Doug Winterburn wrote:
On 03/10/2014 12:59 PM, Michael wrote:
I'm going to make an insulated solar kiln to dry out 6 -8 foot stock.
Any advice. It's just going to be an insulated box with repurposed
house windows tilted at 45 degrees (Wisconsin) and a small fan to
circulate air. Any important things I need to keep in mind?

Thanks.

If it dries unevenly or too fast, you can always use the lumber to build
a boat.


Really, if it dries to fast it's garbage isn't it. It usually gets
hardened.. And it may honeycomb.

I prefer working with air dried lumber.
Especially walnut that has not been steamed... It's more beautiful.



--
Jeff

On Monday, March 10, 2014 4:00:10 PM UTC-5, Sonny wrote:
On Monday, March 10, 2014 2:59:54 PM UTC-5, Michael wrote:

I'm going to make an insulated solar kiln to dry out 6 -8 foot stock. Any advice. It's just going to be an insulated box with repurposed house windows tilted at 45 degrees (Wisconsin) and a small fan to circulate air. Any important things I need to keep in mind? Thanks.



Might not need a fan to circulate the air. Tilt the kiln about 30 degrees, make a small vent at the upper end and the warmer air should rise to and out the vent. Screen the vents to keep any bugs, especially wasps, out.



Sonny

That's good advice about the wasps, especially around here. Why 30 degrees? This guy lives in Wisconsin and says 45 degrees. I'll do whatever works best. Thanks.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cTsDhCrE56U

On Monday, March 10, 2014 5:33:47 PM UTC-5, Michael wrote:
That's good advice about the wasps, especially around here. Why 30 degrees? This guy lives in Wisconsin and says 45 degrees. I'll do whatever works best. Thanks. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cTsDhCrE56U

I didn't have the benefit of the video, so I assumed a small box-like unit, not a shed-like (larger greenhouse) unit. I was assuming you were to kiln dry small amounts (500 max bd ft) of lumber, not a bundle or two or three, as that video unit can accommodate.

I was thinking the small box-like unit would be tilted up, at one end, 30 degrees, not the windows. I was thinking vents on each upper end, as with a greenhouse.

I did assume the windows (sashes only?) would be facing south and tilted at 45 degrees, that would be installed on the box-like unit, which would be tilted at 30 degrees.

I was guessing at a size and design that may not require a fan for air movement.

Sonny

On Monday, March 10, 2014 6:10:03 PM UTC-5, Sonny wrote:
On Monday, March 10, 2014 5:33:47 PM UTC-5, Michael wrote:

That's good advice about the wasps, especially around here. Why 30 degrees? This guy lives in Wisconsin and says 45 degrees. I'll do whatever works best. Thanks. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cTsDhCrE56U



I didn't have the benefit of the video, so I assumed a small box-like unit, not a shed-like (larger greenhouse) unit. I was assuming you were to kiln dry small amounts (500 max bd ft) of lumber, not a bundle or two or three, as that video unit can accommodate.



I was thinking the small box-like unit would be tilted up, at one end, 30 degrees, not the windows. I was thinking vents on each upper end, as with a greenhouse.



I did assume the windows (sashes only?) would be facing south and tilted at 45 degrees, that would be installed on the box-like unit, which would be tilted at 30 degrees.



I was guessing at a size and design that may not require a fan for air movement.



Sonny

He makes the claim that kiln dried wood is available faster (yes) but better quality? Not sure about that, but if this kiln can get the wood to 6-8 percent instead of the 12-14 that you get with air drying, then that's a big win.

On 3/10/2014 3:59 PM, Michael wrote:
I'm going to make an insulated solar kiln to dry out 6 -8 foot stock. Any advice. It's just going to be an insulated box with repurposed house windows tilted at 45 degrees (Wisconsin),

I don't know the wood bits, but I do know solar.

The angle varies by season. Whatever angle about an hour before solar
noon. You can also add reflectors to bounce more light in. Polyiso foam
RMax, or reflective bubble wrap. With either you can tape/tack together.


I use corrugated panels like SunTuf when I make anything solar. That
brand also has a UV shield, if you wanted to add a layer of mylar for
extra insulation.

Thinking outside the box, probably too far out:

The solar heater can be separate from the wood.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wood_drying

It seems that drying benefits by air movement:

and a small fan to circulate air. Any important things I need to keep
in mind?

Larger fan and the cross section small so the air speed is higher.

I use fan forced solar hot air to heat my house during the day and I can
see how solar forced air could dry wood. A mix of recyled and fresh air.

Arduino humidity/temperatu

http://playground.arduino.cc/main/DHT11Lib#.Ux5T8fldV2Q

I think keeping a relatively constant humidity may be more important
than the temperature.

Thanks.

On 3/10/2014 7:21 PM, Michael wrote:
On Monday, March 10, 2014 6:10:03 PM UTC-5, Sonny wrote:
On Monday, March 10, 2014 5:33:47 PM UTC-5, Michael wrote:

That's good advice about the wasps, especially around here. Why 30 degrees? This guy lives in Wisconsin and says 45 degrees. I'll do whatever works best. Thanks. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cTsDhCrE56U



I didn't have the benefit of the video, so I assumed a small box-like unit, not a shed-like (larger greenhouse) unit. I was assuming you were to kiln dry small amounts (500 max bd ft) of lumber, not a bundle or two or three, as that video unit can accommodate.



I was thinking the small box-like unit would be tilted up, at one end, 30 degrees, not the windows. I was thinking vents on each upper end, as with a greenhouse.



I did assume the windows (sashes only?) would be facing south and tilted at 45 degrees, that would be installed on the box-like unit, which would be tilted at 30 degrees.



I was guessing at a size and design that may not require a fan for air movement.



Sonny

He makes the claim that kiln dried wood is available faster (yes) but better quality? Not sure about that, but if this kiln can get the wood to 6-8 percent instead of the 12-14 that you get with air drying, then that's a big win.

You know, it's funny but a hundred years ago wood was air dried.
1 thousand years ago it was air dried.

Now we have heat in our homes... it dries out.
The guy says it continues to shrink in our homes, therefore it's less
than 12%..

Air dry it, acclimate it in your shop and you are good to go.
Most wood stays in my rack a year or 2 before use. Except when I buy
kiln dried then its a week or 2...
I even get 2x4's to stabilize. I clamp them down on the rack so they
finish drying b4 use, it doesn't always prevent a small twist, but it's
better than taking it and using it immediately. I use 2x4's for utility
grade stuff.

My tiger maple, walnut, cedar, ash, beech and cherry are all air dried.

Once you bring them in to finish drying you get down to 6-8% in the
winter. Higher in the summer.


I have 2 meters a cheapy that I bring to the lumber mills, or local
guys. And a lingnomat for final checking. Both agree on my final within
a point or 2 so I am confident that I am not speaking out my Ass...

If you do steam bending I was told you don't want kiln dried wood.. Not
sure why and not sure if its true.


--
Jeff

woodchucker wrote in
news
*snip*


If you do steam bending I was told you don't want kiln dried wood..
Not sure why and not sure if its true.

I haven't tried steam bending, but have worked with kiln and air dried
versions of pine. Kiln dried wood is much more brittle. If you try
flexing a small piece of kiln dried and air dried wood, the air dried will
bend a bit before it breaks while the kiln dried just snaps.

Puckdropper
--
Make it to fit, don't make it fit.

On Monday, March 10, 2014 7:14:10 PM UTC-5, Jeff Thies wrote:
On 3/10/2014 3:59 PM, Michael wrote:

I'm going to make an insulated solar kiln to dry out 6 -8 foot stock. Any advice. It's just going to be an insulated box with repurposed house windows tilted at 45 degrees (Wisconsin),



I don't know the wood bits, but I do know solar.



The angle varies by season. Whatever angle about an hour before solar

noon. You can also add reflectors to bounce more light in. Polyiso foam

RMax, or reflective bubble wrap. With either you can tape/tack together.





I use corrugated panels like SunTuf when I make anything solar. That

brand also has a UV shield, if you wanted to add a layer of mylar for

extra insulation.



Thinking outside the box, probably too far out:



The solar heater can be separate from the wood.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wood_drying



It seems that drying benefits by air movement:



and a small fan to circulate air. Any important things I need to keep

in mind?



Larger fan and the cross section small so the air speed is higher.



I use fan forced solar hot air to heat my house during the day and I can

see how solar forced air could dry wood. A mix of recyled and fresh air.



Arduino humidity/temperatu



http://playground.arduino.cc/main/DHT11Lib#.Ux5T8fldV2Q



I think keeping a relatively constant humidity may be more important

than the temperature.



Thanks.



Thanks for the good thoughts. My goal is to keep the costs way down. I have most of the stuff laying around already, including windows, but not the 3/4 sheets of plywood or the fan. The suntuf looks like a great suggestion. I'll see where the budget is.

On Monday, March 10, 2014 9:49:43 PM UTC-5, Puckdropper wrote:
woodchucker wrote in

news


*snip*





If you do steam bending I was told you don't want kiln dried wood..

Not sure why and not sure if its true.



I haven't tried steam bending, but have worked with kiln and air dried

versions of pine. Kiln dried wood is much more brittle. If you try

flexing a small piece of kiln dried and air dried wood, the air dried will

bend a bit before it breaks while the kiln dried just snaps.



Puckdropper

--

Make it to fit, don't make it fit.

If it's kiln dried to 6-8 percent, it's probably going to break from lack of moisture, even after you've steamed it. Unless you're bending very think strips, maybe 1/16, kiln dried wood will not produce very good results.

On Mon, 10 Mar 2014 12:59:54 -0700 (PDT), Michael
wrote:

I'm going to make an insulated solar kiln to dry out 6 -8 foot stock. Any advice. It's just going to be an insulated box with repurposed house windows tilted at 45 degrees (Wisconsin) and a small fan to circulate air. Any important things I need to keep in mind?

Thanks.

I remember a video on the subject, probably at the Fine Woodworking
web site. The kiln operator recommended a home dehumidifier for a
small kiln.

On Tuesday, March 11, 2014 11:08:08 AM UTC-5, Jim Weisgram wrote:
On Mon, 10 Mar 2014 12:59:54 -0700 (PDT), Michael

wrote:



I'm going to make an insulated solar kiln to dry out 6 -8 foot stock. Any advice. It's just going to be an insulated box with repurposed house windows tilted at 45 degrees (Wisconsin) and a small fan to circulate air. Any important things I need to keep in mind?



Thanks.



I remember a video on the subject, probably at the Fine Woodworking

web site. The kiln operator recommended a home dehumidifier for a

small kiln.

I saw those too, but after casting around a little bit, I'm just going to go for it and make a big solar kiln. It sounds like a fun project that will be very useful.

Yes, they make a wonderful solar operated fan I use in my greenhouse.
12volt.....
sounds good.
you could also dry fruit.....
wonder if it gets too hot too quick?
warping boards?
I guess you can sticker them....and cover from the sun, but circulate the
air....in and out....
john

"Michael" wrote in message
...

I'm going to make an insulated solar kiln to dry out 6 -8 foot stock. Any
advice. It's just going to be an insulated box with repurposed house windows
tilted at 45 degrees (Wisconsin) and a small fan to circulate air. Any
important things I need to keep in mind?

Thanks.

"jloomis" wrote:


Yes, they make a wonderful solar operated fan I use in my
greenhouse.
12volt.....
sounds good.
you could also dry fruit.....
wonder if it gets too hot too quick?
warping boards?
I guess you can sticker them....and cover from the sun, but
circulate the air....in and out....
john
---------------------------------------------------------
"Michael" wrote:

I'm going to make an insulated solar kiln to dry out 6 -8 foot
stock. Any advice. It's just going to be an insulated box with
repurposed house windows tilted at 45 degrees (Wisconsin) and a
small fan to circulate air. Any important things I need to keep in
mind?
--------------------------------------------------------
Norm once built a green house on NYW.

Used a modulated opening for maintaining temps.

Might want to take a look for reference ideas.

Lew

"Lew Hodgett" wrote

Norm once built a green house on NYW.

Used a modulated opening for maintaining temps.

Might want to take a look for reference ideas.

Lew

Real kilns modulate temperature and moisture by heating up with a cycle of
then letting the hot moist air out, then heating up again. Ideally, for a
solar kiln, you would want to cycle the air out in early afternoon, then let
it time to heat before nightfall again. A furnace blower on a timer with
shutters that blow open would facilitate that very nicely. Also, if you do
not stick your wood, you are fooling yourself.

This isn't aimed at Lew, just an add on to the thread.
--
Jim in NC


---
This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.
http://www.avast.com

On Tuesday, March 11, 2014 7:28:49 PM UTC-5, jloomis wrote:
Yes, they make a wonderful solar operated fan I use in my greenhouse.

12volt.....

sounds good.

you could also dry fruit.....

wonder if it gets too hot too quick?

warping boards?

I guess you can sticker them....and cover from the sun, but circulate the

air....in and out....

john



"Michael" wrote in message

...



I'm going to make an insulated solar kiln to dry out 6 -8 foot stock. Any

advice. It's just going to be an insulated box with repurposed house windows

tilted at 45 degrees (Wisconsin) and a small fan to circulate air. Any

important things I need to keep in mind?



Thanks.

Great idea about a solar fan. I'll check that out for sure, but the fan should be on a timer, I think. I'm concerned about regulating the temps and drying too quickly, as you and Lew point out. It will be important to paint the endgrain and weigh it down to keep it straight during drying, and use stickers, as Jim Morgan says.

On 3/11/2014 11:10 AM, Michael wrote:
On Monday, March 10, 2014 7:14:10 PM UTC-5, Jeff Thies wrote:
On 3/10/2014 3:59 PM, Michael wrote:

I'm going to make an insulated solar kiln to dry out 6 -8 foot stock. Any advice. It's just going to be an insulated box with repurposed house windows tilted at 45 degrees (Wisconsin),



I don't know the wood bits, but I do know solar.



The angle varies by season. Whatever angle about an hour before solar

noon. You can also add reflectors to bounce more light in. Polyiso foam

RMax, or reflective bubble wrap. With either you can tape/tack together.





I use corrugated panels like SunTuf when I make anything solar. That

brand also has a UV shield, if you wanted to add a layer of mylar for

extra insulation.



Thinking outside the box, probably too far out:



The solar heater can be separate from the wood.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wood_drying



It seems that drying benefits by air movement:



and a small fan to circulate air. Any important things I need to keep

in mind?



Larger fan and the cross section small so the air speed is higher.



I use fan forced solar hot air to heat my house during the day and I can

see how solar forced air could dry wood. A mix of recyled and fresh air.



Arduino humidity/temperatu



http://playground.arduino.cc/main/DHT11Lib#.Ux5T8fldV2Q



I think keeping a relatively constant humidity may be more important

than the temperature.



Thanks.



Thanks for the good thoughts. My goal is to keep the costs way down. I have most of the stuff laying around already, including windows, but not the 3/4 sheets of plywood or the fan.

Forget the 3/4", Frame it up and use the rMax polyisocyanurate for the
sides. Reflective side in, you can paint the exterior if you like or
cover with thin ply. The half inch ($10) should be OK:

http://www.rmax.com/downloads/DataSheets/rmp3.pdf

There is little advantage of having a higher R value as most of the heat
will escape through the glazing.

The suntuf looks like a great suggestion. I'll see where the budget is.

It's very tough. Just make sure no direct sun can hit the reverse side.
If so, Lowes has a similar product that doesn't have the UV shield
because it does not need it. For what I do, the UV shield is important.

Also, you don't need much wood in the structure. You can frame it in
with 1" or 3/4" PVC pipe. Use self tapping screws with the gasket. You
will need to paint the PVC if it is exposed to UV. I've made a structure
just out of the Lowes panels and 1" PVC and 2 x 2s. Very strong.

If you just need to try it out and last a season or maybe two, get the
clearest 4 mil or greater poly rolled sheet. Clear poly is seldom very
clear. Vinyl will be clear and seems to hold up a bit better that poly,
although more expensive. Ace Hardware, I believe. Clear shower curtain
liners are a lower quality vinyl but may be OK.

I'm all about cheap!

Jeff

On Wednesday, March 12, 2014 9:43:04 AM UTC-5, Jeff Thies wrote:
On 3/11/2014 11:10 AM, Michael wrote:

On Monday, March 10, 2014 7:14:10 PM UTC-5, Jeff Thies wrote:

On 3/10/2014 3:59 PM, Michael wrote:



I'm going to make an insulated solar kiln to dry out 6 -8 foot stock. Any advice. It's just going to be an insulated box with repurposed house windows tilted at 45 degrees (Wisconsin),







I don't know the wood bits, but I do know solar.







The angle varies by season. Whatever angle about an hour before solar



noon. You can also add reflectors to bounce more light in. Polyiso foam



RMax, or reflective bubble wrap. With either you can tape/tack together.











I use corrugated panels like SunTuf when I make anything solar. That



brand also has a UV shield, if you wanted to add a layer of mylar for



extra insulation.







Thinking outside the box, probably too far out:







The solar heater can be separate from the wood.







http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wood_drying







It seems that drying benefits by air movement:







and a small fan to circulate air. Any important things I need to keep



in mind?







Larger fan and the cross section small so the air speed is higher.







I use fan forced solar hot air to heat my house during the day and I can



see how solar forced air could dry wood. A mix of recyled and fresh air.







Arduino humidity/temperatu







http://playground.arduino.cc/main/DHT11Lib#.Ux5T8fldV2Q







I think keeping a relatively constant humidity may be more important



than the temperature.







Thanks.







Thanks for the good thoughts. My goal is to keep the costs way down. I have most of the stuff laying around already, including windows, but not the 3/4 sheets of plywood or the fan.



Forget the 3/4", Frame it up and use the rMax polyisocyanurate for the

sides. Reflective side in, you can paint the exterior if you like or

cover with thin ply. The half inch ($10) should be OK:



http://www.rmax.com/downloads/DataSheets/rmp3.pdf

Great information, Jeff! Will this rMax material hold up under rain and snow conditions, or will some kind of exterior skin be necessary?

On 3/12/2014 11:02 AM, Michael wrote:
On Wednesday, March 12, 2014 9:43:04 AM UTC-5, Jeff Thies wrote:
On 3/11/2014 11:10 AM, Michael wrote:

On Monday, March 10, 2014 7:14:10 PM UTC-5, Jeff Thies wrote:

On 3/10/2014 3:59 PM, Michael wrote:



snip

http://www.rmax.com/downloads/DataSheets/rmp3.pdf

Great information, Jeff! Will this rMax material hold up under rain and snow conditions,

It does here. The reflective side suffers more. I have raw pieces that
have been outside for years. Gets dirty! I use it in all my solar. You
can paint, or cover in thin ply if you wish. This stuff is stiff but it
can be punctured. It's also easily repaired.

or will some kind of exterior skin be necessary?


No. You can do without one if you don't mind a little rough around the
edges, so to speak.

Jeff

On Wednesday, March 12, 2014 4:45:38 PM UTC-5, Jeff Thies wrote:
On 3/12/2014 11:02 AM, Michael wrote:

On Wednesday, March 12, 2014 9:43:04 AM UTC-5, Jeff Thies wrote:

On 3/11/2014 11:10 AM, Michael wrote:



On Monday, March 10, 2014 7:14:10 PM UTC-5, Jeff Thies wrote:



On 3/10/2014 3:59 PM, Michael wrote:







snip



http://www.rmax.com/downloads/DataSheets/rmp3.pdf



Great information, Jeff! Will this rMax material hold up under rain and snow conditions,



It does here. The reflective side suffers more. I have raw pieces that

have been outside for years. Gets dirty! I use it in all my solar. You

can paint, or cover in thin ply if you wish. This stuff is stiff but it

can be punctured. It's also easily repaired.



or will some kind of exterior skin be necessary?





No. You can do without one if you don't mind a little rough around the

edges, so to speak.



Jeff

Thanks, Jeff!

On Monday, March 10, 2014 12:59:54 PM UTC-7, Michael wrote:
I'm going to make an insulated solar kiln to dry out 6 -8 foot stock. Any advice. It's just going to be an insulated box with repurposed house windows tilted at 45 degrees (Wisconsin) and a small fan to circulate air. Any important things I need to keep in mind?

Well, yeah: you need to figure a way to block the sunlight if it gets too hot, and stop the
venting when the moisture level is 'right'.
Kiln drying is done by a prescription of time/temperature/humidity, and getting it done
RIGHT is harder than getting it done.

You might want to read all of the USDA _Wood_Handbook_
but especially chapter 13
http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/fplgtr/fplgtr190/chapter_13.pdf

On Tuesday, 11 March 2014 03:59:54 UTC+8, Michael wrote:
I'm going to make an insulated solar kiln to dry out 6 -8 foot stock. Any advice. It's just going to be an insulated box with repurposed house windows tilted at 45 degrees (Wisconsin) and a small fan to circulate air. Any important things I need to keep in mind?



Thanks.

There's a bunch of good information on the Virginia Tech website: http://pubs.ext.vt.edu/420/420-030/420-030_pdf.pdf

If you are electronically-minded, you can use an Arduino to manage/monitor temps and humidity.

From what I have read, kiln-dried wood that is brittle and hard has been badly kilned. Properly kilned timber to 7% humidity should be better than air-dried.

The key is, don't let it get too hot, don't let it dry too fast. Unless you constantly monitor and manage the drying process, you can only guess at the results. Managing that process by the use of a microprocessor-controlled venting circuit will take that guesswork away and result in a perfectly-dried product.

Building a control circuit would involve an Arduino, a solenoid of some sort and an appropriately configured vent. I am guessing a cost of $30-50 and some thinkin'

I think you must search on google hope you get a lot of suggestions there which help you in making solar kiln. Because many peoples have already made that insulated box and using them.
What your stock broker doesn’t want you to see