What methods / products are suggested for removing accumulated wax / polish from
furniture? Item in question is an early 60s console stereo cabinet, believe the finish to
be lacquer.

Thanks.

Doug

On 12/14/2013 9:06 AM, Doug wrote:
What methods / products are suggested for removing accumulated wax / polish from
furniture? Item in question is an early 60s console stereo cabinet, believe the finish to
be lacquer.

Thanks.

Doug


I would say mineral spirits first.
Followed by a soapy mix after the mineral spirits are gone.

you might need to repeat a few times.
Mineral spirits should melt the wax away, the soapy mix to carry it all off.

--
Jeff

"Doug" wrote in message

What methods / products are suggested for removing
accumulated wax / polish from furniture? Item in
question is an early 60s console stereo cabinet, believe
the finish to be lacquer.


Naptha (lighter fluid)



--

dadiOH
____________________________

Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Taxes out of hand? Maybe just ready for a change?
Check it out... http://www.floridaloghouse.net

On 12/14/2013 10:15 AM, dadiOH wrote:
"Doug" wrote in message

What methods / products are suggested for removing
accumulated wax / polish from furniture? Item in
question is an early 60s console stereo cabinet, believe
the finish to be lacquer.


Naptha (lighter fluid)





Same as My immediate thought, IIRC Briwax is loaded with something like
lighter fluid to soften it.

BUT would naphtha bother lacquer?

On Sat, 14 Dec 2013 10:22:11 -0600, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 12/14/2013 10:15 AM, dadiOH wrote:
"Doug" wrote in message

What methods / products are suggested for removing
accumulated wax / polish from furniture? Item in
question is an early 60s console stereo cabinet, believe
the finish to be lacquer.


Naptha (lighter fluid)





Same as My immediate thought, IIRC Briwax is loaded with something like
lighter fluid to soften it.

BUT would naphtha bother lacquer?
Pure naptha should not bother either laquer or varnish. If it has
toluene added you could have a problem.
Coleman fuel works well - but OUTSIDE - well vented, and no source of
spark/ignition. High humidity to eliminate static discharge??

On 12/14/2013 11:30 AM, wrote:
On Sat, 14 Dec 2013 10:22:11 -0600, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 12/14/2013 10:15 AM, dadiOH wrote:
"Doug" wrote in message

What methods / products are suggested for removing
accumulated wax / polish from furniture? Item in
question is an early 60s console stereo cabinet, believe
the finish to be lacquer.


Naptha (lighter fluid)





Same as My immediate thought, IIRC Briwax is loaded with something like
lighter fluid to soften it.

BUT would naphtha bother lacquer?
Pure naptha should not bother either laquer or varnish. If it has
toluene added you could have a problem.
Coleman fuel works well - but OUTSIDE - well vented, and no source of
spark/ignition. High humidity to eliminate static discharge??



Goooood to know, thanks!

"Doug" wrote:

What methods / products are suggested for removing
accumulated wax / polish from furniture? Item in
question is an early 60s console stereo cabinet, believe
the finish to be lacquer.
--------------------------------------------------
Method is a non hydrocarbon cleaner that eats kitchen grease and wax.

http://tinyurl.com/llfttej

Comes in a spray bottle.

I got one at Target.

Lew

Lew Hodgett wrote:
"Doug" wrote:

What methods / products are suggested for removing
accumulated wax / polish from furniture? Item in
question is an early 60s console stereo cabinet, believe
the finish to be lacquer.
--------------------------------------------------
Method is a non hydrocarbon cleaner that eats kitchen grease and wax.

http://tinyurl.com/llfttej

Comes in a spray bottle.

I got one at Target.

Lew

I love hydrocarbons!


--
 GW Ross 

 If at first you do succeed, try not 
 to look astonished. 

On Sat, 14 Dec 2013 16:46:59 -0500, "G. Ross"
wrote:

Lew Hodgett wrote:
"Doug" wrote:

What methods / products are suggested for removing
accumulated wax / polish from furniture? Item in
question is an early 60s console stereo cabinet, believe
the finish to be lacquer.
--------------------------------------------------
Method is a non hydrocarbon cleaner that eats kitchen grease and wax.

http://tinyurl.com/llfttej

Comes in a spray bottle.

I got one at Target.

Lew

I love hydrocarbons!

So do I. I burn a couple of gallons as an offering to the God of
freedom every day.

In article ,
wrote:

On Sat, 14 Dec 2013 10:22:11 -0600, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

BUT would naphtha bother lacquer?
Pure naptha should not bother either laquer or varnish. If it has
toluene added you could have a problem.
Coleman fuel works well - but OUTSIDE - well vented, and no source of
spark/ignition. High humidity to eliminate static discharge??

Coleman fuel goes WHOMP! really well. Ah, the memories...

--
Do the right thing. It will gratify some people and astonish the rest.
- Mark Twain.

On Saturday, December 14, 2013 10:15:49 AM UTC-6, dadiOH wrote:

Naptha

Indeed the preferred soil/dirt and polish furniture wax remover. Often the polish is the problem to begin with when you see accumulation of gunk in details, corners, inside corners, etc.

Cheap polish/furniture wax is loaded with all kinds of silicones, waxes, and resins. Amazingly, it sticks well to surfaces while offering little protection. And of course the worst are the ones that claim to "nourish" the wood... how do you nourish a piece of material that is sealed?

I would go with naptha over anything else as it is tried and true. Get a handful of paper towels before you start and go to the dollar store and get the multi pack of cheap tooth brushes to use when cleaning. While you are there get some toothpicks, and if a pair of rubber gloves to wear. You are set! Do your cleaning in a well ventilated place and it should be a fairly easy task.

Robert

Robert,

Thank you for your comments - always appreciate the benefit of your experience.

Went to the local box store for the naphtha - brand carried is Klean Strip VM&P naphtha.
Following note was in the instructions for use: 'Do not use as a general purpose cleaner.'

Is there another variety / brand of naphtha preferred for use as a cleaner?

Suspect the cautionary note is legal CYA.

Thanks!

Doug



" wrote:

On Saturday, December 14, 2013 10:15:49 AM UTC-6, dadiOH wrote:

Naptha

Indeed the preferred soil/dirt and polish furniture wax remover. Often the polish is the problem to begin with when you see accumulation of gunk in details, corners, inside corners, etc.

Cheap polish/furniture wax is loaded with all kinds of silicones, waxes, and resins. Amazingly, it sticks well to surfaces while offering little protection. And of course the worst are the ones that claim to "nourish" the wood... how do you nourish a piece of material that is sealed?

I would go with naptha over anything else as it is tried and true. Get a handful of paper towels before you start and go to the dollar store and get the multi pack of cheap tooth brushes to use when cleaning. While you are there get some toothpicks, and if a pair of rubber gloves to wear. You are set! Do your cleaning in a well ventilated place and it should be a fairly easy task.

Robert

On Monday, December 23, 2013 10:10:10 AM UTC-6, Doug wrote:
Robert,



Thank you for your comments - always appreciate the benefit of your experience.



Went to the local box store for the naphtha - brand carried is Klean Strip VM&P naphtha.

Following note was in the instructions for use: 'Do not use as a general purpose cleaner.'



Is there another variety / brand of naphtha preferred for use as a cleaner?



Suspect the cautionary note is legal CYA.


Doug - a one in a million chance I am here! I don't get to this group much so good for both of us.

The naptha you have found is Varnish Maker's and Painter's Naptha. It is not known for its purity, but rather for the fact that it will thin varnish and paint successfully. It allows a very wide spectrum of ingredients and mixtures of the same to hit the lowest common denominator of simply being able to thin an oil based product.

Naptha has the "not to be used as a cleaner" warning posted in it as there were several different solutions of naptha used for decades as dry cleaning fluids. So when you took your dress suit to the cleaners, they used naptha or a solution with naptha in it to clean it, along with other non washable clothes. Find that out, it was a short cut for many to clean their non washables themselves with a small can of naptha (my Dad kept "Energine" around when I was a kid) to hit spots and possible stains. Naptha was widely used as a utility cleaner in the manufacturing and industrial community as well. There are too many other cleaners that do the job better and safer these days for those applications.

But naptha still has its place. Go to a real paint store (not Home Depot, Lowe's, etc.) like Sherwin Williams or Benjamin Moore and get some real, first brew naptha. Most naptha is recycled cleaning agents from heavy industry and is a mix of all kinds of stuff (as most thinners are). This isn't illegal as "naptha" is simply a trade name, not an exact product. However, the stuff you get at the paint store will be minimally blended, so there will be much less chance of that product reacting with anything that might be left behind on your furniture.

Robert,

My lucky day you were reading rec.woodworking! Is there another newsgroup where you more
frequently post? Your detailed guidance / instructions have been invaluable to me in
several instances and greatly appreciated.

Was curious as to what VM&P meant - now I know. I too recall Energine - nasty smelling
stuff my mom used for the same purpose as did your dad.

The VM&P MSDS identifies the main ingredient (95-100%) as petroleum ether. Only
recollection I have of ether is that in gaseous form it burns exceedingly rapidly.

Will check the local Sherwin Williams or Benjamin Moore stores to get the 'good stuff' and
start cleaning.

Thanks again and best wishes to you and your family for a safe, healthy, and very Merry
Christmas!

Doug


" wrote:

Doug - a one in a million chance I am here! I don't get to this group much so good for both of us.

The naptha you have found is Varnish Maker's and Painter's Naptha. It is not known for its purity, but rather for the fact that it will thin varnish and paint successfully. It allows a very wide spectrum of ingredients and mixtures of the same to hit the lowest common denominator of simply being able to thin an oil based product.

Naptha has the "not to be used as a cleaner" warning posted in it as there were several different solutions of naptha used for decades as dry cleaning fluids. So when you took your dress suit to the cleaners, they used naptha or a solution with naptha in it to clean it, along with other non washable clothes. Find that out, it was a short cut for many to clean their non washables themselves with a small can of naptha (my Dad kept "Energine" around when I was a kid) to hit spots and possible stains. Naptha was widely used as a utility cleaner in the manufacturing and industrial community as well. There are too many other cleaners that do the job better and safer these days for those applications.

But naptha still has its place. Go to a real paint store (not Home Depot, Lowe's, etc.) like Sherwin Williams or Benjamin Moore and get some real, first brew naptha. Most naptha is recycled cleaning agents from heavy industry and is a mix of all kinds of stuff (as most thinners are). This isn't illegal as "naptha" is simply a trade name, not an exact product. However, the stuff you get at the paint store will be minimally blended, so there will be much less chance of that product reacting with anything that might be left behind on your furniture.

On Monday, December 23, 2013 5:35:23 PM UTC-6, Doug wrote:
Robert,


My lucky day you were reading rec.woodworking! Is there another newsgroup where you more

frequently post? Your detailed guidance / instructions have been invaluable to me in

several instances and greatly appreciated.

*SNIP*

Thanks for that! I have spent years learning a lot of different aspects of the construction business, but was forced into finishing by unreliable painters and finishers. Then I found out I liked doing it!

I have learned a little from many different employees over the years as well as from different finishing contractors. There used to be a really vibrant community that was for experienced finishers only (you had to be invited after "guest posting" on several subjects) that I really liked. Sadly, due to the need for the advertising bucks, it became more open, and the student graduates from Google University started posting all the info they saw on other groups and forums as their own personal, hands on experiences.

To me, that was unacceptable. So many folks posted their Google found info as facts I quit posting. I wouldn't post any methodology about a process I had not experienced or a or info about a product I have not used. Many people read these groups and forums, but do not post to them so bad information goes just as far as the good stuff. As difficult as most folks find finishing, it is hard for me to see someone post away solid baloney as advice based on personal experience knowing that someone is getting ready to ruin or damage a wood project based on 4rd or 5th hand knowledge that was simply lifted somewhere else. I no longer post there.

The good forums and sites to me are long gone, and I come here occasionally to see what is going on.

For some reason, folks don't see finishing as a craft like they do wood working. I don't know why... the simple fact that so many run like hell to get out of finishing a project should tell them that there is more to it than meets the eye. On the other hand, it isn't brain surgery by any means, and to me much too much is made out of the finishing process. With so many great finishes being available these days over the counter to anyone, with a moderate amount of practice and determination anyone can turn out a good project.

I like to think I help those folks along when they get stuck on a certain aspect or are losing their nerve. I get a real charge out of reading that I helped someone get through a problem or fix a mistake on their projects. It takes a fair amount of time to sit and peck away good instructions but it is worth it to read that someone hundreds of miles away was successful in some way due to my efforts.

I have been in the trades for 40 years now. I realized after just a few that you can't know everything. The more you learn about all manner of woodworking, you realize there is more to know that anyone can fathom. I enjoy sharing the parts I know with folks that appreciate it.

Thanks again and best wishes to you and your family for a safe, healthy, and very Merry

Christmas!

And back at you, Doug. I will certainly be doing that this year!

Robert

wrote:


I have learned a little from many different employees over the years
as well as from different finishing contractors. There used to be a
really vibrant community that was for experienced finishers only (you
had to be invited after "guest posting" on several subjects) that I
really liked. Sadly, due to the need for the advertising bucks, it
became more open, and the student graduates from Google University
started posting all the info they saw on other groups and forums as
their own personal, hands on experiences.


Thank you Robert! You have found the way to say what I have felt but never
seemed to find the way to say. And - it's not just about finishing - it's
about all things related to woodworking. People who become experts on
tablesaw safety because of things they've seen on YouTube, etc., with no
practical experience to validate those thoughts. People making assertive
claims based on the very same sort of "expertise", with equally little
experience and knowldege to support their assertions.


For some reason, folks don't see finishing as a craft like they do
wood working. I don't know why... the simple fact that so many run
like hell to get out of finishing a project should tell them that
there is more to it than meets the eye. On the other hand, it isn't
brain surgery by any means, and to me much too much is made out of
the finishing process. With so many great finishes being available
these days over the counter to anyone, with a moderate amount of
practice and determination anyone can turn out a good project.


Preach it brother! There seems to be a cult like facination with finsihing
things that are associated with some guy's name - when upon modest
examination, are little more than the contents of an over the counter
product. But - doing it "this way" must be better, because it is tied to a
famous woodworker's name. The funny part is when the over the counter
product is demeaned while the famous woodworker's "technique" is revered.
Both using essentially the same stuff.

I like to think I help those folks along when they get stuck on a
certain aspect or are losing their nerve. I get a real charge out of
reading that I helped someone get through a problem or fix a mistake
on their projects. It takes a fair amount of time to sit and peck
away good instructions but it is worth it to read that someone
hundreds of miles away was successful in some way due to my efforts.


And sir - you do an admirable job at that. Hats off to ya...


I have been in the trades for 40 years now. I realized after just a
few that you can't know everything. The more you learn about all
manner of woodworking, you realize there is more to know that anyone
can fathom. I enjoy sharing the parts I know with folks that
appreciate it.


And sir - you do an admirable job at that. Hats off to ya...



--

-Mike-

Robert,

I will continue to look for your most helpful / informative posts, however frequent they
appear.

Recall some time ago a regular poster in rec.woodworking suggested you write a book on
finishing - I understood the suggestion to be absolutely serious.

If you do - please let me know - I will certainly buy it.

As you note there is a large volume of misinformation disseminated via the Internet - just
the way it is unfortunately. That being the case - is most rewarding to find the real
deal from folks that know from their personal experiences - as you do.

While finishing may not be rocket science - use the wrong mix of products, improper
preparation, not suited for the material in question - and as someone reminded me once -
its' back to the belt sander!

It is most ironic that the more one knows about a subject, the more you know you don't
know.

BIG Thanks again for sharing your knowledge and experience!

Doug

" wrote:

On Monday, December 23, 2013 5:35:23 PM UTC-6, Doug wrote:
Robert,


My lucky day you were reading rec.woodworking! Is there another newsgroup where you more

frequently post? Your detailed guidance / instructions have been invaluable to me in

several instances and greatly appreciated.

*SNIP*

Thanks for that! I have spent years learning a lot of different aspects of the construction business, but was forced into finishing by unreliable painters and finishers. Then I found out I liked doing it!

I have learned a little from many different employees over the years as well as from different finishing contractors. There used to be a really vibrant community that was for experienced finishers only (you had to be invited after "guest posting" on several subjects) that I really liked. Sadly, due to the need for the advertising bucks, it became more open, and the student graduates from Google University started posting all the info they saw on other groups and forums as their own personal, hands on experiences.

To me, that was unacceptable. So many folks posted their Google found info as facts I quit posting. I wouldn't post any methodology about a process I had not experienced or a or info about a product I have not used. Many people read these groups and forums, but do not post to them so bad information goes just as far as the good stuff. As difficult as most folks find finishing, it is hard for me to see someone post away solid baloney as advice based on personal experience knowing that someone is getting ready to ruin or damage a wood project based on 4rd or 5th hand knowledge that was simply lifted somewhere else. I no longer post there.

The good forums and sites to me are long gone, and I come here occasionally to see what is going on.

For some reason, folks don't see finishing as a craft like they do wood working. I don't know why... the simple fact that so many run like hell to get out of finishing a project should tell them that there is more to it than meets the eye. On the other hand, it isn't brain surgery by any means, and to me much too much is made out of the finishing process. With so many great finishes being available these days over the counter to anyone, with a moderate amount of practice and determination anyone can turn out a good project.

I like to think I help those folks along when they get stuck on a certain aspect or are losing their nerve. I get a real charge out of reading that I helped someone get through a problem or fix a mistake on their projects. It takes a fair amount of time to sit and peck away good instructions but it is worth it to read that someone hundreds of miles away was successful in some way due to my efforts.

I have been in the trades for 40 years now. I realized after just a few that you can't know everything. The more you learn about all manner of woodworking, you realize there is more to know that anyone can fathom. I enjoy sharing the parts I know with folks that appreciate it.

Thanks again and best wishes to you and your family for a safe, healthy, and very Merry

Christmas!

And back at you, Doug. I will certainly be doing that this year!

Robert

On 12/25/2013 12:36 AM, Doug wrote:

Recall some time ago a regular poster in rec.woodworking suggested you write a book on
finishing - I understood the suggestion to be absolutely serious.

If you do - please let me know - I will certainly buy it.

That was me, and I'm ghost writing it.

Just kidding, but I have saved all of Roberts posts on finishing, since
2007 when that remark was made, in a folder on my hard drive just
waiting for the opportunity for Robert to write that book.

.... IOW, Wobbit, most of the work is already done, but you still too
esspensive.

--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
google.com/+KarlCaillouet
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

Swingman wrote:
On 12/25/2013 12:36 AM, Doug wrote:

Recall some time ago a regular poster in rec.woodworking suggested
you write a book on finishing - I understood the suggestion to be
absolutely serious. If you do - please let me know - I will certainly buy
it.

That was me, and I'm ghost writing it.

Just kidding, but I have saved all of Roberts posts on finishing,
since 2007 when that remark was made, in a folder on my hard drive
just waiting for the opportunity for Robert to write that book.

... IOW, Wobbit, most of the work is already done, but you still too
esspensive.

He's trying to work you now, Robert. Don't let him do that - hold out for
more!

--

-Mike-

On Wednesday, December 25, 2013 11:08:52 AM UTC-6, Mike Marlow wrote:

He's trying to work you now, Robert. Don't let him do that - hold out for

more!


-Mike-

I am trying to be strong, Mike. But in the next few days he is going to tempt me with real homemade, honest to goodness, 100% cajun gumbo made by a real, honest to goodness Cajun.

I'm not made of stone!!

Robert

wrote:
On Wednesday, December 25, 2013 11:08:52 AM UTC-6, Mike Marlow wrote:

He's trying to work you now, Robert. Don't let him do that - hold
out for

more!


-Mike-

I am trying to be strong, Mike. But in the next few days he is going
to tempt me with real homemade, honest to goodness, 100% cajun gumbo
made by a real, honest to goodness Cajun.

I'm not made of stone!!


He's a sly old one Robert, and he can catch even the most wary off guard.
Just do your best and let the gumbo fall where it may.

--

-Mike-

Robert,

Checking the local paint retailers, Sherwin Williams, Benjamin Moore, and Pratt&Lambert,
Sherwin Williams is the only one that carries naphtha - currently offering two types -
VM&P and hi-flash (100 flash, Solvesso 100).

Per the SW literature, the hi-flash is slow evaporating - 40 minutes to evaporate 90% vs 4
minutes for the VM&P, with a solvent strength of 5 out of 10 vs. 2 for the VM&P.

Appears the hi-flash is the much hotter / stronger of the two solvents. Not sure if it
would be hot enough to lift the finish - which would be a disaster for my application.

The SW product summary sheet for the VM&P product also states it is a weak, fast
evaporating, and very good for solvent cleaning when using alkyd topcoats.

Which of the two would you suggest for removing furniture wax / polish?

Apparently Energine has been discontinued and there is no similar replacement product.

Thanks again!

Doug

" wrote:



Doug - a one in a million chance I am here! I don't get to this group much so good for both of us.

The naptha you have found is Varnish Maker's and Painter's Naptha. It is not known for its purity, but rather for the fact that it will thin varnish and paint successfully. It allows a very wide spectrum of ingredients and mixtures of the same to hit the lowest common denominator of simply being able to thin an oil based product.

Naptha has the "not to be used as a cleaner" warning posted in it as there were several different solutions of naptha used for decades as dry cleaning fluids. So when you took your dress suit to the cleaners, they used naptha or a solution with naptha in it to clean it, along with other non washable clothes. Find that out, it was a short cut for many to clean their non washables themselves with a small can of naptha (my Dad kept "Energine" around when I was a kid) to hit spots and possible stains. Naptha was widely used as a utility cleaner in the manufacturing and industrial community as well. There are too many other cleaners that do the job better and safer these days for those applications.

But naptha still has its place. Go to a real paint store (not Home Depot, Lowe's, etc.) like Sherwin Williams or Benjamin Moore and get some real, first brew naptha. Most naptha is recycled cleaning agents from heavy industry and is a mix of all kinds of stuff (as most thinners are). This isn't illegal as "naptha" is simply a trade name, not an exact product. However, the stuff you get at the paint store will be minimally blended, so there will be much less chance of that product reacting with anything that might be left behind on your furniture.

On Monday, December 30, 2013 11:04:22 AM UTC-6, Doug wrote:

Appears the hi-flash is the much hotter / stronger of the two solvents. Not sure if it

would be hot enough to lift the finish - which would be a disaster for my application.


The SW product summary sheet for the VM&P product also states it is a weak, fast

evaporating, and very good for solvent cleaning when using alkyd topcoats..


Which of the two would you suggest for removing furniture wax / polish?


I would go with the VM&P for a couple of reasons. First, I know it works, so that makes me happy. Second, if you use a really hot solvent for cleaning(in this case you are trying to dissolve and loosen material) it can be very hard to control.

Say for example, the finish under the layer of accumulated debris and gunk is damaged. When you are working on it, if there is even a hairline crack you can dissolve the material you are trying to clean away and have it penetrate to the wood below the finish by going through a crack or weak spot in the finish. This can happen anyway, but repeated applications of a higher VOC to get the working time you need to clean will certainly increase your chances of doing this.

So... what happens when you penetrate the finish with your hot solvent? It can easily drag polish and cleaning remnants including oils, silicones, grease, etc. into the wood to discolor it. It can also stain the wood to the point it can't be colored to match. And worse, if you are doing this as a refinish or a partial refinish you can foul the cleaned areas so much with dissolved finishing, polishing and cleaning materials that it will foul your finish as well.

The point is that you aren't looking for any kind of penetration at all, but rather trying to avoid it. Use only as much solvent as you need to remove what you need to in order to get it as clean as you need it for your expectations. Personally, to control as much as possible any cleaning agent, (I would strongly suggest this to you) I pour my cleaning agent/solvent into a small bowl or cup and dip the cleaning brush in the cup. Loosen the gunk, wipe your
brush on a rag to remove debris, then dip back into the solution. Wipe your "cleaning in process" area frequently so that you can keep the loosened debris from hardening on your project again, but just as importantly to give the area in process a careful visual examination.


Apparently Energine has been discontinued and there is no similar replacement product.

Gone, but not forgotten.

Thanks again!

Glad to help.

Robert

Thank you Robert! - will get the VM&P ASAP.

If I may ask - how was that authentic Cajun gumbo? All food Cajun is a favorite -
although since shell fish is on my cannot eat list, miss out on most of the really good
dishes.

Doug


" wrote:

On Monday, December 30, 2013 11:04:22 AM UTC-6, Doug wrote:

Appears the hi-flash is the much hotter / stronger of the two solvents. Not sure if it

would be hot enough to lift the finish - which would be a disaster for my application.


The SW product summary sheet for the VM&P product also states it is a weak, fast

evaporating, and very good for solvent cleaning when using alkyd topcoats.


Which of the two would you suggest for removing furniture wax / polish?


I would go with the VM&P for a couple of reasons. First, I know it works, so that makes me happy. Second, if you use a really hot solvent for cleaning(in this case you are trying to dissolve and loosen material) it can be very hard to control.

Say for example, the finish under the layer of accumulated debris and gunk is damaged. When you are working on it, if there is even a hairline crack you can dissolve the material you are trying to clean away and have it penetrate to the wood below the finish by going through a crack or weak spot in the finish. This can happen anyway, but repeated applications of a higher VOC to get the working time you need to clean will certainly increase your chances of doing this.

So... what happens when you penetrate the finish with your hot solvent? It can easily drag polish and cleaning remnants including oils, silicones, grease, etc. into the wood to discolor it. It can also stain the wood to the point it can't be colored to match. And worse, if you are doing this as a refinish or a partial refinish you can foul the cleaned areas so much with dissolved finishing, polishing and cleaning materials that it will foul your finish as well.

The point is that you aren't looking for any kind of penetration at all, but rather trying to avoid it. Use only as much solvent as you need to remove what you need to in order to get it as clean as you need it for your expectations. Personally, to control as much as possible any cleaning agent, (I would strongly suggest this to you) I pour my cleaning agent/solvent into a small bowl or cup and dip the cleaning brush in the cup. Loosen the gunk, wipe your
brush on a rag to remove debris, then dip back into the solution. Wipe your "cleaning in process" area frequently so that you can keep the loosened debris from hardening on your project again, but just as importantly to give the area in process a careful visual examination.


Apparently Energine has been discontinued and there is no similar replacement product.

Gone, but not forgotten.

Thanks again!

Glad to help.

Robert

On 1/2/2014 9:32 AM, Doug wrote:
Thank you Robert! - will get the VM&P ASAP.

If I may ask - how was that authentic Cajun gumbo? All food Cajun is a favorite -
although since shell fish is on my cannot eat list, miss out on most of the really good
dishes.

Doug



I can attest that the Cajun gumbo was excellent, as usual. As was the
company!

On Thursday, January 2, 2014 9:32:54 AM UTC-6, Doug wrote:
Thank you Robert! - will get the VM&P ASAP.



If I may ask - how was that authentic Cajun gumbo? All food Cajun is a favorite -

although since shell fish is on my cannot eat list, miss out on most of the really good

dishes.

It was a toss up, Doug. Excellent gumbo and excellent company. Hard to tell which was better. A great time had by all fueled by great food. Doesn't get any better than that.

Robert

Hello All,

I'm jumping on this late but, hopefully, with a positive contribution.

I am a member of a woodworking club on Long Island and we are very fortunate to have a finishing expert among our members. Mac Simmons has graciously shared a wealth of knowledge among our members and has a website where others can access his expertise. I encourage you to go to:
http://www.macsimmons.com/
and check it out.

I am to be grouped with those that don't give enough pre-thought and planning for the finishing process and find I'm rushing the finishing so I can be, well, finished. I need to allow more time. It is, I hope, a skill to be developed further in 2014. I also need to read posts more carefully to see who is posting experience and who is repeating what they read elsewhere. Both are valuable but, of course, the former more so.

Happy 2014 to our REC family.

Bill

On Saturday, December 14, 2013 9:06:10 AM UTC-5, Doug wrote:
What methods / products are suggested for removing accumulated wax / polish from

furniture? Item in question is an early 60s console stereo cabinet, believe the finish to

be lacquer.



Thanks.



Doug

On 1/3/2014 12:46 PM, Bill Leonhardt wrote:
Hello All,

I'm jumping on this late but, hopefully, with a positive contribution.

I am a member of a woodworking club on Long Island and we are very fortunate to have a finishing expert among our members. Mac Simmons has graciously shared a wealth of knowledge among our members and has a website where others can access his expertise. I encourage you to go to:
http://www.macsimmons.com/
and check it out.

I am to be grouped with those that don't give enough pre-thought and planning for the finishing process and find I'm rushing the finishing so I can be, well, finished. I need to allow more time. It is, I hope, a skill to be developed further in 2014. I also need to read posts more carefully to see who is posting experience and who is repeating what they read elsewhere. Both are valuable but, of course, the former more so.

Happy 2014 to our REC family.

Bill

On Saturday, December 14, 2013 9:06:10 AM UTC-5, Doug wrote:
What methods / products are suggested for removing accumulated wax / polish from

furniture? Item in question is an early 60s console stereo cabinet, believe the finish to

be lacquer.



Thanks.



Doug

Just remember that the step of applying a finish is really the beginning
of an important step, one not to be rushed.

Thanks Bill.

Look forward to seeing Mac Simmons' website.

Essence of what I have benefited from others on rec.woodworking regarding finishing is
that there are a myriad of ways to botch a finish - from not selecting the proper
materials for the wood, to application techniques.

Being remanded to the belt sander for lack of proper planning is to be avoided at all
cost.

Doug


Bill Leonhardt wrote:

Hello All,

I'm jumping on this late but, hopefully, with a positive contribution.

I am a member of a woodworking club on Long Island and we are very fortunate to have a finishing expert among our members. Mac Simmons has graciously shared a wealth of knowledge among our members and has a website where others can access his expertise. I encourage you to go to:
http://www.macsimmons.com/
and check it out.

I am to be grouped with those that don't give enough pre-thought and planning for the finishing process and find I'm rushing the finishing so I can be, well, finished. I need to allow more time. It is, I hope, a skill to be developed further in 2014. I also need to read posts more carefully to see who is posting experience and who is repeating what they read elsewhere. Both are valuable but, of course, the former more so.

Happy 2014 to our REC family.

Bill

On Saturday, December 14, 2013 9:06:10 AM UTC-5, Doug wrote:
What methods / products are suggested for removing accumulated wax / polish from

furniture? Item in question is an early 60s console stereo cabinet, believe the finish to

be lacquer.



Thanks.



Doug

Great food and great friends - absolutely cannot beat that!

Doug

" wrote:

On Thursday, January 2, 2014 9:32:54 AM UTC-6, Doug wrote:
Thank you Robert! - will get the VM&P ASAP.



If I may ask - how was that authentic Cajun gumbo? All food Cajun is a favorite -

although since shell fish is on my cannot eat list, miss out on most of the really good

dishes.

It was a toss up, Doug. Excellent gumbo and excellent company. Hard to tell which was better. A great time had by all fueled by great food. Doesn't get any better than that.

Robert

On Friday, January 3, 2014 12:46:36 PM UTC-6, Bill Leonhardt wrote:
Hello All,



I'm jumping on this late but, hopefully, with a positive contribution.



I am a member of a woodworking club on Long Island and we are very fortunate to have a finishing expert among our members. Mac Simmons has graciously shared a wealth of knowledge among our members and has a website where others can access his expertise. I encourage you to go to:

http://www.macsimmons.com/

and check it out.

Bill, there are some nuggets there worth mining, but you should let folks know that the site heavily promotes his book/CD (absolutely nothing wrong with that) and that some of the links to processes redirect you to different sites than his (not good) without warning.

Heads up to the boys, here.

Robert

Leon wrote:

Just remember that the step of applying a finish is really the
beginning of an important step, one not to be rushed.

Nah... Just step back and spray the stuff on. Heavy!

--

-Mike-

On Friday, January 3, 2014 6:00:10 PM UTC-6, Mike Marlow wrote:

beginning of an important step, one not to be rushed.



Nah... Just step back and spray the stuff on. Heavy!

-Mike-

Hell yeah! That's was compound was invented to fix, right? LOL...

Robert