Elder son called yesterday and posed a ?? -- I have a couple of ideas
but they're I think excessively complicated so throw this out for Karl,
whoever...

Upper kitchen cabinets in his house were built in place w/ one wall a
set of straight-line cabinets and the 90-degree wall then butted against
the face of these. The first cabinet is then open to the end wall while
the second is closed at the face of the first. This, of course, creates
a sizable area in the corner that is very difficult to use.

Son's idea/request was for a mechanism that if cut out the bottom of the
hidden area could drop a set of shelves down for access then lift it
back up -- his request was for suitable hardware design to latch and
more importantly, allow the movement w/ support so would be more-or-less
balanced w/ varying weight.

Swingman/nailshooter; you'se guys ever seen anything for same? I've not
been in the kitchen recently enough that have paid sufficient attention
to the details to know for certain about construction but my initial
thought was to simply open up the end panel of the other cabinet--at
least gives access from both directions that way...

Anyway, the deep square corner is routine issue; any other newer/novel
solutions to help anybody has? (In my day I used to put in a 45 short
section between and cut off the backs w/ false back so while lost some
absolute footage in general it wasn't useful anyway but could reach the
are that did...)

--

On 2/26/2013 8:28 AM, dpb wrote:
Elder son called yesterday and posed a ?? -- I have a couple of ideas
but they're I think excessively complicated so throw this out for Karl,
whoever...

Upper kitchen cabinets in his house were built in place w/ one wall a
set of straight-line cabinets and the 90-degree wall then butted against
the face of these. The first cabinet is then open to the end wall while
the second is closed at the face of the first. This, of course, creates
a sizable area in the corner that is very difficult to use.

Ok, this IIRC amounts to about 1 square foot times the height of the
cabinet. minus the portion that is taller than the distance between the
counter top and the bottom of the cabinet. In most cases this is about
1.5 cubic feet of possible extra accessible storage.


Son's idea/request was for a mechanism that if cut out the bottom of the
hidden area could drop a set of shelves down for access then lift it
back up -- his request was for suitable hardware design to latch and
more importantly, allow the movement w/ support so would be more-or-less
balanced w/ varying weight.

Typically there is not even a good solution for this situation on the
lower cabinets which afford approximately 4 times as much space. Most
add-ons still waste a lot of that space for the hardware.

IMHO if the space is accessible through the cabinet door you will not
get any more storage than that.

On 2/26/2013 9:28 AM, dpb wrote:
Elder son called yesterday and posed a ?? -- I have a couple of ideas
but they're I think excessively complicated so throw this out for Karl,
whoever...

Upper kitchen cabinets in his house were built in place w/ one wall a
set of straight-line cabinets and the 90-degree wall then butted against
the face of these. The first cabinet is then open to the end wall while
the second is closed at the face of the first. This, of course, creates
a sizable area in the corner that is very difficult to use.

Son's idea/request was for a mechanism that if cut out the bottom of the
hidden area could drop a set of shelves down for access then lift it
back up -- his request was for suitable hardware design to latch and
more importantly, allow the movement w/ support so would be more-or-less
balanced w/ varying weight.

Swingman/nailshooter; you'se guys ever seen anything for same? I've not
been in the kitchen recently enough that have paid sufficient attention
to the details to know for certain about construction but my initial
thought was to simply open up the end panel of the other cabinet--at
least gives access from both directions that way...

Anyway, the deep square corner is routine issue; any other newer/novel
solutions to help anybody has? (In my day I used to put in a 45 short
section between and cut off the backs w/ false back so while lost some
absolute footage in general it wasn't useful anyway but could reach the
are that did...)

--


In my Vast Experience{ : ) }, I have seen Lazy-Susans that spin into
the area which is inconvenient to access. You can even build a sturdy
one featuring shelves (think of the quarters of a cake). My mother has
that in a "lower cupboard" situation, and it works nice.

Bill

On 2/26/2013 10:13 AM, Bill wrote:
On 2/26/2013 9:28 AM, dpb wrote:
Elder son called yesterday and posed a ?? -- I have a couple of ideas
but they're I think excessively complicated so throw this out for Karl,
whoever...

Upper kitchen cabinets in his house were built in place w/ one wall a
set of straight-line cabinets and the 90-degree wall then butted against
the face of these. The first cabinet is then open to the end wall while
the second is closed at the face of the first. This, of course, creates
a sizable area in the corner that is very difficult to use.

Son's idea/request was for a mechanism that if cut out the bottom of the
hidden area could drop a set of shelves down for access then lift it
back up -- his request was for suitable hardware design to latch and
more importantly, allow the movement w/ support so would be more-or-less
balanced w/ varying weight.

Swingman/nailshooter; you'se guys ever seen anything for same? I've not
been in the kitchen recently enough that have paid sufficient attention
to the details to know for certain about construction but my initial
thought was to simply open up the end panel of the other cabinet--at
least gives access from both directions that way...

Anyway, the deep square corner is routine issue; any other newer/novel
solutions to help anybody has? (In my day I used to put in a 45 short
section between and cut off the backs w/ false back so while lost some
absolute footage in general it wasn't useful anyway but could reach the
are that did...)

--


In my Vast Experience{ : ) }, I have seen Lazy-Susans that spin into
the area which is inconvenient to access. You can even build a sturdy
one featuring shelves (think of the quarters of a cake). My mother has
that in a "lower cupboard" situation, and it works nice.

Bill

An additional comment: I expect my mother has deeper cabinets that what
you may have overhead. Still...?

On 2/26/2013 8:28 AM, dpb wrote:

Anyway, the deep square corner is routine issue; any other newer/novel
solutions to help anybody has?

Just got finished educating a young architect/client on this very issue
.... in short, I, personally, have yet to see a suitable, satisfying
solution to a true "blind corner cabinet" situation that will stand the
test of time, particularly with regard to the hardware reliability. (I
have actually removed more Lazy Susan's than I've ever installed, or
caused to be installed)

That said, Pete Mai over at KornerKing has some interesting products he
has devised, mostly for base cabs, but I think he has some wall cab
solutions also ... check him out at:

http://www.kornerking.com/

Pete posts on G+ and seems to be a very nice guy. There have been a few
reviews that I have not seen, but heard about on G+ and they all seem
positive, so you might want to add "review" to a search string.

--
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Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
https://plus.google.com/114902129577517371552/posts
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

On 2/26/2013 9:48 AM, Swingman wrote:

in short, I, personally, have yet to see a suitable, satisfying solution
to a true "blind corner cabinet" situation that will stand the test of
time, particularly with regard to the hardware reliability.

Meant to reiterate that, IME, it all boils down to hardware, both its
availability, and reliability over time.

I have a lot of good ideas on custom made blind corner cabinet
solutions, but finding the hardware to effect them, and then
incorporating that hardware into a design has always proven to not be a
cost effective solution for my, or a client's purposes.

If cost were of no concern, that may not be the case.

--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
https://plus.google.com/114902129577517371552/posts
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

On Tue, 26 Feb 2013 08:28:52 -0600, dpb wrote:
Anyway, the deep square corner is routine issue; any other newer/novel
solutions to help anybody has? (In my day I used to put in a 45 short
section between and cut off the backs w/ false back so while lost some
absolute footage in general it wasn't useful anyway but could reach the
are that did...)

Perhaps some type of TV lift might be incorporated? Capacity 110 lbs.
http://www.leevalley.com/en/hardware...=3,43597,43601

If that doesn't do it for you, then something along the lines of a
sewing machine lift might be jury rigged for use. Capacity 40 lbs.
http://www.leevalley.com/en/hardware...21&cat=3,48759

On 2/26/2013 9:55 AM, Swingman wrote:
On 2/26/2013 9:48 AM, Swingman wrote:

in short, I, personally, have yet to see a suitable, satisfying solution
to a true "blind corner cabinet" situation that will stand the test of
time, particularly with regard to the hardware reliability.

Meant to reiterate that, IME, it all boils down to hardware, both its
availability, and reliability over time.

I have a lot of good ideas on custom made blind corner cabinet
solutions, but finding the hardware to effect them, and then
incorporating that hardware into a design has always proven to not be a
cost effective solution for my, or a client's purposes.

If cost were of no concern, that may not be the case.


Basically agree fully...it was just a passing query that seemed worth a
post while waiting to go shovel blizzard (minor, nothing major) from the
haymow before it all melts and makes a mess below. Unfortunately, the
wind blows even a small amount of actual snow everywhere in that old
thing...

On the commercial lazy susan hardware--agree they're mostly junk or
ridiculously expensive if not. We (Dad and I) built one for the base
cabinets here when he was redoing the old farm house. It uses a set of
Krause oneway thrust bearings on 2" (iirc) pipe and will support several
hundred pounds w/ no slop. It's been 30+ yr and is still as solid as
originally built and will be for another 30 at least.

I doubt if elder son will ever do anything, anyway, in reality.

--

On Feb 26, 9:48*am, Swingman wrote:

I, personally, have yet to see a suitable, satisfying
solution to a true "blind corner cabinet" situation that will stand the
test of time, particularly with regard to the hardware reliability. (I
have actually removed more Lazy Susan's than I've ever installed, or
caused to be installed)

Ditto. Lots of options on new cabinets, and even on lowers. But the
effort/cost benefit balanced against a few usable inches of storage
isn't worth it.

Now if you could figure something out that was clever and would stand
the test of time, you could probably retire with that once you get it
patented.

Robert

On 2/26/2013 9:48 AM, Swingman wrote:
On 2/26/2013 8:28 AM, dpb wrote:

Anyway, the deep square corner is routine issue; any other newer/novel
solutions to help anybody has?

Just got finished educating a young architect/client on this very issue
... in short, I, personally, have yet to see a suitable, satisfying
solution to a true "blind corner cabinet" situation that will stand the
test of time, particularly with regard to the hardware reliability. (I
have actually removed more Lazy Susan's than I've ever installed, or
caused to be installed)

That said, Pete Mai over at KornerKing has some interesting products he
has devised, mostly for base cabs, but I think he has some wall cab
solutions also ... check him out at:

http://www.kornerking.com/
....

Interesting; hadn't seen that before. I kinda' like the
drawer-on-a-susan concept. Now that there are full-extensions slides
it's pretty practical. Assuming his bearings are up to the task for the
long term (I can tell him where he can get some that definitely are )
it should last.

Unfortunately, it appears his ready-made solution for upper cabinets are
only usable w/ angled corner installations.

I can envision some solutions that would work but they're far too
complex for routine work. (Being an old power NucE so that everything
starts w/ a reactor for the power source tends to lead to less than
trivial design/thought processes it seems... )

--

dpb wrote in :

Elder son called yesterday and posed a ?? -- I have a couple of ideas
but they're I think excessively complicated so throw this out for
Karl, whoever...

Upper kitchen cabinets in his house were built in place w/ one wall a
set of straight-line cabinets and the 90-degree wall then butted
against the face of these. The first cabinet is then open to the end
wall while the second is closed at the face of the first. This, of
course, creates a sizable area in the corner that is very difficult to
use.

Son's idea/request was for a mechanism that if cut out the bottom of
the hidden area could drop a set of shelves down for access then lift
it back up -- his request was for suitable hardware design to latch
and more importantly, allow the movement w/ support so would be
more-or-less balanced w/ varying weight.

Swingman/nailshooter; you'se guys ever seen anything for same? I've
not been in the kitchen recently enough that have paid sufficient
attention to the details to know for certain about construction but my
initial thought was to simply open up the end panel of the other
cabinet--at least gives access from both directions that way...

Anyway, the deep square corner is routine issue; any other newer/novel
solutions to help anybody has? (In my day I used to put in a 45 short
section between and cut off the backs w/ false back so while lost some
absolute footage in general it wasn't useful anyway but could reach
the are that did...)

We have a top corner cabinet that was installed when we redid the
kitchen some 12 years ago. It is a doubly-hinged door, and it has held
up very well. The only caveat is that people have to be instructed to
close it in sequence - first the part that hinges against the cabinet
itself, then the part that hinges to that, so you don't scrape the
adjacent cabinet (left in the pictures that I will put up on abpw, and
that are already up on G+ - how the hell to share here?).


--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

On Feb 26, 3:38*pm, Han wrote:

*The only caveat is that people have to be instructed to
close it in sequence - first the part that hinges against the cabinet
itself, then the part that hinges to that, so you don't scrape the
adjacent cabinet (left in the pictures that I will put up on abpw, and
that are already up on G+ - how the hell to share here?).

File sharing is pretty easy these days. Open an account with Google,
Imageshack, or a couple of others and it is a snap. More folks could
see what you are referencing as they would be able to click a link
and
have the pic come right up.

Robert

" wrote in news:0e0b43a6-
:

On Feb 26, 3:38*pm, Han wrote:

*The only caveat is that people have to be instructed to
close it in sequence - first the part that hinges against the cabinet
itself, then the part that hinges to that, so you don't scrape the
adjacent cabinet (left in the pictures that I will put up on abpw, and
that are already up on G+ - how the hell to share here?).

File sharing is pretty easy these days. Open an account with Google,
Imageshack, or a couple of others and it is a snap. More folks could
see what you are referencing as they would be able to click a link
and
have the pic come right up.

Robert

Finally found a link to these 4 photos:
https://picasaweb.google.com/1065378...Box?authuser=0
&feat=directlink


--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

Han wrote:


We have a top corner cabinet that was installed when we redid the
kitchen some 12 years ago. It is a doubly-hinged door, and it has
held up very well. The only caveat is that people have to be
instructed to close it in sequence - first the part that hinges
against the cabinet itself, then the part that hinges to that, so you
don't scrape the adjacent cabinet (left in the pictures that I will
put up on abpw, and that are already up on G+ - how the hell to share
here?).

The cabinets in my church's kitchen employ one of these for a corner - under
the counter. These are not the best cabinets that money can buy, but they
are not low end stuff either. Sorta mid-line stuff. One of the problems I
see repeatedly, is that people just don't take the time to pay attention,
and are accustomed to just swinging a cabinet door closed when they are
done. This does not work with a double hinge system, and usually results in
stress on the door. If they don't hit the adjacent cabinet as you suggest
(not sure if I've seen that happen at the church), you certainly get into
the situation of the door binding if opened or closed in an improper
sequence. If people are keenly aware, and actually care enough to take the
time to open and close properly, then it's no problem. But...

--

-Mike-

"Mike Marlow" wrote in
:

Han wrote:


We have a top corner cabinet that was installed when we redid the
kitchen some 12 years ago. It is a doubly-hinged door, and it has
held up very well. The only caveat is that people have to be
instructed to close it in sequence - first the part that hinges
against the cabinet itself, then the part that hinges to that, so you
don't scrape the adjacent cabinet (left in the pictures that I will
put up on abpw, and that are already up on G+ - how the hell to share
here?).

The cabinets in my church's kitchen employ one of these for a corner -
under the counter. These are not the best cabinets that money can
buy, but they are not low end stuff either. Sorta mid-line stuff.
One of the problems I see repeatedly, is that people just don't take
the time to pay attention, and are accustomed to just swinging a
cabinet door closed when they are done. This does not work with a
double hinge system, and usually results in stress on the door. If
they don't hit the adjacent cabinet as you suggest (not sure if I've
seen that happen at the church), you certainly get into the situation
of the door binding if opened or closed in an improper sequence. If
people are keenly aware, and actually care enough to take the time to
open and close properly, then it's no problem. But...

My thoughts were on a residential situation. And, yes, it is less than
ideal if there were careless teenagers about. My cabinets were made by
KraftsMaid, or whatever way they spell the name. I really like them,
since they fit our style and usage.

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

"Mike Marlow" wrote in
:

Han wrote:


My thoughts were on a residential situation. And, yes, it is less
than ideal if there were careless teenagers about. My cabinets were
made by KraftsMaid, or whatever way they spell the name. I really
like them, since they fit our style and usage.

Yeah - I wasn't trying to say something critical about the design as
much as I was bemoaning what they go through at the hands of careless
people.

That is indeed a good caveat ...

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

Han wrote:


My thoughts were on a residential situation. And, yes, it is less
than ideal if there were careless teenagers about. My cabinets were
made by KraftsMaid, or whatever way they spell the name. I really
like them, since they fit our style and usage.

Yeah - I wasn't trying to say something critical about the design as much as
I was bemoaning what they go through at the hands of careless people.

--

-Mike-

Just a thought: A possible solution that's been around a while, but in another application. How about a dead weight counterbalance mechanism, like the old style sash windows weight/counterbalance to raise/lower the hidden/inconvenient space.

As stated, the hardware would need its own space. I wouldn't think there would be too much cabinet weight and (as Leon noted) stored material weight that needs to be supported. A little trial and error construction might produce a reasonable/inexpensive application for this dead weight lower/raise mechanism proposal.

Sonny

On 2/27/2013 7:45 AM, Sonny wrote:
Just a thought: A possible solution that's been around a while, but in another application. How about a dead weight counterbalance mechanism, like the old style sash windows weight/counterbalance to raise/lower the hidden/inconvenient space.

As stated, the hardware would need its own space. I wouldn't think there would be too much cabinet weight and (as Leon noted) stored material weight that needs to be supported. A little trial and error construction might produce a reasonable/inexpensive application for this dead weight lower/raise mechanism proposal.

Sonny


wouldn't you need an adjustable weight because the amount in the cabinet
would change over time?

On 2/27/2013 8:45 AM, Sonny wrote:
Just a thought: A possible solution that's been around a while, but in another application. How about a dead weight counterbalance mechanism, like the old style sash windows weight/counterbalance to raise/lower the hidden/inconvenient space.

As stated, the hardware would need its own space. I wouldn't think there would be too much cabinet weight and (as Leon noted) stored material weight that needs to be supported. A little trial and error construction might produce a reasonable/inexpensive application for this dead weight lower/raise mechanism proposal.

The best solution, IMO, is a reverse Lazy Susan type solution.

A "Lazy Susan", with rotating outward shelves, in the same path as the
the cabinet door (both on their respective 180 or 270 degree hinge and
post), and with the Lazy Susan swinging out and away from the adjacent
cabinet in the corner.

This leaves the "blind corner" space free for one or two shelves on
drawer slides that pullout into the easily reachable space vacated by
the Lazy Susan.

Once again, the problem is finding hardware, the space, the builder to
modify/build it into new or existing cabinetry, and someone to pay for it.

Not to mention that current post type hardware of the typical Lazy
Susan, now located opposite the traditional location, takes up a good
deal of cabinet space.

It will take a new approach to the traditional "Lazy Susan", post type
hinge hardware, but would make more sense than any other solution I've seen.

YMMV ...

--
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KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

On Wednesday, February 27, 2013 9:05:33 AM UTC-6, chaniarts wrote:
wouldn't you need an adjustable weight because the amount in the cabinet would change over time?

Incorporate an adjustment for resistance on the pulley mechanism?

If a "rope" was wrapped around a slippery dowel, two wraps would increase the resistance. A hook attaching the weight, rather than a rope knot, would allow for a quick release for adding a wrap.

Sonny

"Swingman" wrote:

Just got finished educating a young architect/client on this very
issue ... in short, I, personally, have yet to see a suitable,
satisfying solution to a true "blind corner cabinet" situation that
will stand the test of time, particularly with regard to the
hardware reliability. (I have actually removed more Lazy Susan's
than I've ever installed, or caused to be installed)
----------------------------------------------------
Classic design problem on a sailboat.

SFWIW, even drawers are considered a waste of valuable interior
space and excess weight.

Usual solution is to convert corner space into a storage bin with
access via a lift out top flushed into counter top.

Done right, provides dry storage for grains, legumes, etc.

Lew