I got a friend. Recently, he asked if he could use my shop to build a
firewood box for his wife. Sure, sez me.

He came and spent the day, bringing his own wood. Used the table saw,
scroll saw, router, sander, various tools, glue, and screws. Kindly told me
that my glue was drying out and that I needed to replace it, to which I
said, add water and stir. Said thanks in a weak way.

In the past two weeks, he has harvested an elk and a mule deer. No mention
of "here's a pack of meat for the use of your shop." Not even some burger
or sausage, let alone some real meat.

I think it would have been a nice thing to offer me something for what I did
for him. Tho, real friends don't keep score, or so I am told. And then I
have heard of others who just plain don't loan things at all.

Where should I be on this? Am I making a big deal out of nothing? Did I
get a cheap lesson in loaning?

Opinions appreciated on loaning from your own experiences.

Steve

On 10/29/2012 09:56 PM, Steve B wrote:
I got a friend. Recently, he asked if he could use my shop to build a
firewood box for his wife. Sure, sez me.

He came and spent the day, bringing his own wood. Used the table saw,
scroll saw, router, sander, various tools, glue, and screws. Kindly told me
that my glue was drying out and that I needed to replace it, to which I
said, add water and stir. Said thanks in a weak way.

In the past two weeks, he has harvested an elk and a mule deer. No mention
of "here's a pack of meat for the use of your shop." Not even some burger
or sausage, let alone some real meat.

I think it would have been a nice thing to offer me something for what I did
for him. Tho, real friends don't keep score, or so I am told. And then I
have heard of others who just plain don't loan things at all.

Where should I be on this? Am I making a big deal out of nothing? Did I
get a cheap lesson in loaning?

Opinions appreciated on loaning from your own experiences.

Steve


Maybe ask if you could use his wife for a small project?



--
"Socialism is a philosophy of failure,the creed of ignorance, and the
gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery"
-Winston Churchill

On 10/29/12 11:56 PM, Steve B wrote:
I got a friend. Recently, he asked if he could use my shop to build a
firewood box for his wife. Sure, sez me.

He came and spent the day, bringing his own wood. Used the table saw,
scroll saw, router, sander, various tools, glue, and screws. Kindly told me
that my glue was drying out and that I needed to replace it, to which I
said, add water and stir. Said thanks in a weak way.

In the past two weeks, he has harvested an elk and a mule deer. No mention
of "here's a pack of meat for the use of your shop." Not even some burger
or sausage, let alone some real meat.

I think it would have been a nice thing to offer me something for what I did
for him. Tho, real friends don't keep score, or so I am told. And then I
have heard of others who just plain don't loan things at all.

Where should I be on this? Am I making a big deal out of nothing? Did I
get a cheap lesson in loaning?

Opinions appreciated on loaning from your own experiences.

Steve


Loaning tools is a lot like loaning money.
You either do it or you don't. But if you do, do it for the joy of
helping, not to get anything in return.
For your own peace of mind, only loan tools expecting nothing in return
and only do it if the satisfaction of helping someone out gives you some
happiness.
For the same piece of mind, only loan money if you'd be just as content
with giving it.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

-MIKE- wrote:
On 10/29/12 11:56 PM, Steve B wrote:
I got a friend. Recently, he asked if he could use my shop to build
a firewood box for his wife. Sure, sez me.

He came and spent the day, bringing his own wood. Used the table
saw, scroll saw, router, sander, various tools, glue, and screws. Kindly
told me that my glue was drying out and that I needed to
replace it, to which I said, add water and stir. Said thanks in a
weak way. In the past two weeks, he has harvested an elk and a mule deer.
No
mention of "here's a pack of meat for the use of your shop." Not
even some burger or sausage, let alone some real meat.

I think it would have been a nice thing to offer me something for
what I did for him. Tho, real friends don't keep score, or so I am
told. And then I have heard of others who just plain don't loan
things at all. Where should I be on this? Am I making a big deal out of
nothing? Did I get a cheap lesson in loaning?

Opinions appreciated on loaning from your own experiences.

Steve


Loaning tools is a lot like loaning money.
You either do it or you don't. But if you do, do it for the joy of
helping, not to get anything in return.
For your own peace of mind, only loan tools expecting nothing in
return and only do it if the satisfaction of helping someone out
gives you some happiness.
For the same piece of mind, only loan money if you'd be just as
content with giving it.

I concur with Mike with one exception.

When I was working - I was a photographer - I would not lend the items I
used to make a living. Too much to go wrong and I wanted to know about it.

I would lend extra things on occasion to someone I knew well, who was in a
real bind and who I trusted. By "extra things" I mean things like esoteric
lenses that I used to play with, cables, cords, small speedlights (had a
bunch)...like that.

--

dadiOH
____________________________

Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Maybe just ready for a change? Check it out...
http://www.floridaloghouse.net

On 10/29/2012 11:56 PM, Steve B wrote:
I got a friend. Recently, he asked if he could use my shop to build a
firewood box for his wife. Sure, sez me.

He came and spent the day, bringing his own wood. Used the table saw,
scroll saw, router, sander, various tools, glue, and screws. Kindly told me
that my glue was drying out and that I needed to replace it, to which I
said, add water and stir. Said thanks in a weak way.

In the past two weeks, he has harvested an elk and a mule deer. No mention
of "here's a pack of meat for the use of your shop." Not even some burger
or sausage, let alone some real meat.

I think it would have been a nice thing to offer me something for what I did
for him. Tho, real friends don't keep score, or so I am told. And then I
have heard of others who just plain don't loan things at all.

Where should I be on this? Am I making a big deal out of nothing? Did I
get a cheap lesson in loaning?

Opinions appreciated on loaning from your own experiences.

Steve




It is strictly your decision. No rules. If you did not work out an
arrangement or swap in the beginning you should expect no more.

On 10/29/2012 11:56 PM, Steve B wrote:

Opinions appreciated on loaning from your own experiences.

Take a look at the condition of their tools first ...

--
www.eWoodShop.com
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
http://gplus.to/eWoodShop

"Steve B" wrote in message
...
I got a friend. Recently, he asked if he could use my shop to build a
firewood box for his wife. Sure, sez me.

He came and spent the day, bringing his own wood. Used the table saw,
scroll saw, router, sander, various tools, glue, and screws. Kindly told
me that my glue was drying out and that I needed to replace it, to which I
said, add water and stir. Said thanks in a weak way.

In the past two weeks, he has harvested an elk and a mule deer. No
mention of "here's a pack of meat for the use of your shop." Not even
some burger or sausage, let alone some real meat.

I think it would have been a nice thing to offer me something for what I
did for him. Tho, real friends don't keep score, or so I am told. And
then I have heard of others who just plain don't loan things at all.

Where should I be on this? Am I making a big deal out of nothing? Did I
get a cheap lesson in loaning?

Opinions appreciated on loaning from your own experiences.

Steve


I only loan out tools to close friends whom I know how to use them correctly
and safely. Currently there are very few that I will trust with my tools.

On 10/30/12 5:22 AM, dadiOH wrote:
-MIKE- wrote:
Loaning tools is a lot like loaning money.
You either do it or you don't. But if you do, do it for the joy of
helping, not to get anything in return.
For your own peace of mind, only loan tools expecting nothing in
return and only do it if the satisfaction of helping someone out
gives you some happiness.
For the same piece of mind, only loan money if you'd be just as
content with giving it.

I concur with Mike with one exception.

When I was working - I was a photographer - I would not lend the items I
used to make a living. Too much to go wrong and I wanted to know about it.

I would lend extra things on occasion to someone I knew well, who was in a
real bind and who I trusted. By "extra things" I mean things like esoteric
lenses that I used to play with, cables, cords, small speedlights (had a
bunch)...like that.


I don't think you're disagreeing. I said "either do it or don't."
You just have categories for "do" and "don't." :-)


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On 10/30/12 8:55 AM, Swingman wrote:
On 10/29/2012 11:56 PM, Steve B wrote:

Opinions appreciated on loaning from your own experiences.

Take a look at the condition of their tools first ...


What tools?


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

Steve

Ask him if you borrow a coupla packs of venison. Maybe he thought you were a vegetarian.

RP

On 10/30/2012 10:50 AM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 10/30/12 8:55 AM, Swingman wrote:
On 10/29/2012 11:56 PM, Steve B wrote:

Opinions appreciated on loaning from your own experiences.

Take a look at the condition of their tools first ...


What tools?

If they don't have _any_ tools at all, then the answer is automatically,
emphatically, chromatically, acrobatically ... NO.

--
www.eWoodShop.com
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
http://gplus.to/eWoodShop

On Tue, 30 Oct 2012 11:42:58 -0500, Swingman wrote:

On 10/30/2012 10:50 AM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 10/30/12 8:55 AM, Swingman wrote:
On 10/29/2012 11:56 PM, Steve B wrote:

Opinions appreciated on loaning from your own experiences.

Take a look at the condition of their tools first ...


What tools?

If they don't have _any_ tools at all, then the answer is automatically,
emphatically, chromatically, acrobatically ... NO.

I'll loan out things like shovels, conduit benders, and things that
don't break easy or hurt people unless they're really a klutz. Any
power tool doesn't leave my house and the floor tools require
supervision so I won't get my ass sued off if something happens
because they aren't safe. If you have medical insurance these days
they are always looking for someone to stick with the cost.

Mike M

"EXT" wrote in news:508fe3ed$0$29958
:


I only loan out tools to close friends whom I know how to use them correctly
and safely. Currently there are very few that I will trust with my tools.

Depends on the tool, as well as on the friend. I have a few close friends whom I would trust with
my life -- but not with a power saw.

On 10/30/12 11:42 AM, Swingman wrote:
On 10/30/2012 10:50 AM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 10/30/12 8:55 AM, Swingman wrote:
On 10/29/2012 11:56 PM, Steve B wrote:

Opinions appreciated on loaning from your own experiences.

Take a look at the condition of their tools first ...


What tools?

If they don't have _any_ tools at all, then the answer is automatically,
emphatically, chromatically, acrobatically ... NO.


Because the next favor they'll be asking for is a ride to the hospital.
:-)


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

"Swingman" wrote in message
...
On 10/29/2012 11:56 PM, Steve B wrote:

Opinions appreciated on loaning from your own experiences.

Take a look at the condition of their tools first ...

Bingo!!

I remember when I was about 14, I needed to drill some large holes through
some 4 X 4's. I had a brace, but did not have that particular size bit.
Old Mr. Swanson lived down the road three miles. He had a great shop and I
worked for him each year during haying season. So I walked down there and
asked him if I could borrow a bit for my brace. He brought the tool to me
and explained to me the following instructions.

Wrap it up. Let no harm come to the bit. Keep it sharp. When you are done
with it, resharpen it. Then coat it with oil. Wrap it up again and bring
it back. If you follow these instructions, you can borrow tools again. If
you don't, don't even bother to ask.

Well about a year later, I had to do my original project again. I went down
to see Mr. Swanson again and explained that I needed to borrow that original
bit all over again. He laughed and told me that he checked out the bit
after I brought it back the last time. He said I did a better job
sharpening it than he did. And I can borrow any tool from him, any time I
wanted.

He loved his tools. He was a retired machinist. He had a complete machine
shop next to the dairy barn. And a wild ass inventor that restored antique
tractors. He made a hell of an impression on me. I never forgot his words
and to this day, I still treat tools in the thoughtful, reverent way he
taught me.

"Doug Miller" wrote in message
. ..
"EXT" wrote in news:508fe3ed$0$29958
:


I only loan out tools to close friends whom I know how to use them
correctly
and safely. Currently there are very few that I will trust with my tools.

Depends on the tool, as well as on the friend. I have a few close friends
whom I would trust with
my life -- but not with a power saw.

It may be a cliché, but is totally true. Some people should never use power
tools!!

It must be a defective gene or something. Some people have this innate
drive to cut some part of their anatomy off. I personally never saw the
attraction to that kind of behavior. And many of them get upset when you
insist that the tool should be operated in a safe manner. Those kind of
folks not only never get to use any of my tools, but the are not allowed in
the shop. It is prudent for liability purposes. But also I don't want to
be a party of what could happen when this moron gets hold of a power tool.

On Oct 30, 12:56*am, "Steve B" wrote:
I got a friend. *Recently, he asked if he could use my shop to build a
firewood box for his wife. *Sure, sez me.

He came and spent the day, bringing his own wood. *Used the table saw,
scroll saw, router, sander, various tools, glue, and screws. *Kindly told me
that my glue was drying out and that I needed to replace it, to which I
said, add water and stir. *Said thanks in a weak way.

In the past two weeks, he has harvested an elk and a mule deer. *No mention
of "here's a pack of meat for the use of your shop." *Not even some burger
or sausage, let alone some real meat.

I think it would have been a nice thing to offer me something for what I did
for him. *Tho, real friends don't keep score, or so I am told. *And then I
have heard of others who just plain don't loan things at all.

Where should I be on this? *Am I making a big deal out of nothing? *Did I
get a cheap lesson in loaning?

Opinions appreciated on loaning from your own experiences.

Steve

Carpentry grade tools, only. Table saw, planes, chisels,
better hand tools, never. Fee = cleaning the shop.

On 10/30/2012 3:14 PM, Lee Michaels wrote:


"Swingman" wrote in message
...
On 10/29/2012 11:56 PM, Steve B wrote:

Opinions appreciated on loaning from your own experiences.

Take a look at the condition of their tools first ...

Bingo!!

I remember when I was about 14, I needed to drill some large holes
through some 4 X 4's. I had a brace, but did not have that particular
size bit. Old Mr. Swanson lived down the road three miles. He had a
great shop and I worked for him each year during haying season. So I
walked down there and asked him if I could borrow a bit for my brace.
He brought the tool to me and explained to me the following instructions.

Wrap it up. Let no harm come to the bit. Keep it sharp. When you are
done with it, resharpen it. Then coat it with oil. Wrap it up again
and bring it back. If you follow these instructions, you can borrow
tools again. If you don't, don't even bother to ask.

Well about a year later, I had to do my original project again. I went
down to see Mr. Swanson again and explained that I needed to borrow that
original bit all over again. He laughed and told me that he checked out
the bit after I brought it back the last time. He said I did a better
job sharpening it than he did. And I can borrow any tool from him, any
time I wanted.

He loved his tools. He was a retired machinist. He had a complete
machine shop next to the dairy barn. And a wild ass inventor that
restored antique tractors. He made a hell of an impression on me. I
never forgot his words and to this day, I still treat tools in the
thoughtful, reverent way he taught me.

Bingo backatcha ...

Precisely the way I was raised ... when we borrowed a neighbor's tools
or equipment it was my responsibility to clean, sharpen, oil, grease ,
and sometimes paint and repair the tool, BEFORE we returned it, usually
along with something from the vegetable garden as thanks.

Folks loved to loan us tools ... can't tell you how many borrowed
shovels and sharp shooter shovels I cleaned and painted as a kid, or
tractor equipment that got all the grease fittings exercised and the
rust scraped off, many for the first time.

It was not something you had to be told to do either ... it was an
automatic, expected response, no questions necessary.

Judging from a WSJ article last week, quite a few young adults these
days don't think anything about leaving aging parents with co-signed,
defaulted student loans ... you reap what you sow.

--
www.eWoodShop.com
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
http://gplus.to/eWoodShop

"Lee Michaels" leemichaels*nadaspam* at comcast dot net wrote in news:50903685$0
:



"Doug Miller" wrote in message
. ..
"EXT" wrote in news:508fe3ed$0$29958
:


I only loan out tools to close friends whom I know how to use them
correctly
and safely. Currently there are very few that I will trust with my tools.

Depends on the tool, as well as on the friend. I have a few close friends
whom I would trust with
my life -- but not with a power saw.

It may be a cliché, but is totally true. Some people should never use power
tools!!

It must be a defective gene or something. Some people have this innate
drive to cut some part of their anatomy off. I personally never saw the
attraction to that kind of behavior. And many of them get upset when you
insist that the tool should be operated in a safe manner. Those kind of
folks not only never get to use any of my tools, but the are not allowed in
the shop. It is prudent for liability purposes. But also I don't want to
be a party of what could happen when this moron gets hold of a power tool.

Oh, it's not that, not with the folks I know -- it's just that some are simply very un-mechanical
people, who should never use any power cutting tool.

..

Oh, it's not that, not with the folks I know -- it's just that some are
simply very un-mechanical
people, who should never use any power cutting tool.

I sit here contemplating loaning out tools. And contemplating nine stitches
I got yesterday. I was lucky. And I know what I did wrong.

Now where did I lay that humble pie ? ..........................

Steve

"Steve B" wrote in :


.

Oh, it's not that, not with the folks I know -- it's just that some are
simply very un-mechanical
people, who should never use any power cutting tool.

I sit here contemplating loaning out tools. And contemplating nine stitches
I got yesterday. I was lucky. And I know what I did wrong.

Now where did I lay that humble pie ? ..........................

Ouch! What happened?

On Tue, 30 Oct 2012 16:14:12 -0400, "Lee Michaels"
leemichaels*nadaspam* at comcast dot net wrote:



"Swingman" wrote in message
m...
On 10/29/2012 11:56 PM, Steve B wrote:

Opinions appreciated on loaning from your own experiences.

Take a look at the condition of their tools first ...

Bingo!!

I remember when I was about 14, I needed to drill some large holes through
some 4 X 4's. I had a brace, but did not have that particular size bit.
Old Mr. Swanson lived down the road three miles. He had a great shop and I
worked for him each year during haying season. So I walked down there and
asked him if I could borrow a bit for my brace. He brought the tool to me
and explained to me the following instructions.

Wrap it up. Let no harm come to the bit. Keep it sharp. When you are done
with it, resharpen it. Then coat it with oil. Wrap it up again and bring
it back. If you follow these instructions, you can borrow tools again. If
you don't, don't even bother to ask.

Well about a year later, I had to do my original project again. I went down
to see Mr. Swanson again and explained that I needed to borrow that original
bit all over again. He laughed and told me that he checked out the bit
after I brought it back the last time. He said I did a better job
sharpening it than he did. And I can borrow any tool from him, any time I
wanted.

He loved his tools. He was a retired machinist. He had a complete machine
shop next to the dairy barn. And a wild ass inventor that restored antique
tractors. He made a hell of an impression on me. I never forgot his words
and to this day, I still treat tools in the thoughtful, reverent way he
taught me.

Great story, Lee. My dad was the same way, though never a machinist
or true craftsman. He taught me to take care of tools very early on,
and I thank him for it.

--
It is easier to fool people than it is to
convince people that they have been fooled.
--Mark Twain

"Doug Miller" wrote in message
. ..
"Steve B" wrote in :


.

Oh, it's not that, not with the folks I know -- it's just that some are
simply very un-mechanical
people, who should never use any power cutting tool.

I sit here contemplating loaning out tools. And contemplating nine
stitches
I got yesterday. I was lucky. And I know what I did wrong.

Now where did I lay that humble pie ? ..........................

Ouch! What happened?

Used a sanding disc on a Makita for the first time in ten years. Put it in
a place I shouldn't have, and it kicked back, slicing 2.5 inches on top of
my left hand. The cut ran from just short of first knuckle to wrist. Neat
what is in there. White connecting things. Layer of fat. Skin. Blood. I
could see right in there. I was not looking at the point at which the disc
touched the blade, and got it over to 9 o'clock.

I know better than that. Was using it in a crowded area where metal came
together and not out on the flat. Shoulda used an air grinder.

Anyway, I learned something. The 9 stitches come out in 8-12 days.

Doc said if he made a line for an incision on my hand for an operation, it
would have been exactly there so miss all the important stuff. Got lucky.

Steve

Steve B wrote:
I got a friend. Recently, he asked if he could use my shop to build a
firewood box for his wife. Sure, sez me.

He came and spent the day, bringing his own wood. Used the table saw,
scroll saw, router, sander, various tools, glue, and screws. Kindly
told me that my glue was drying out and that I needed to replace it,
to which I said, add water and stir. Said thanks in a weak way.

In the past two weeks, he has harvested an elk and a mule deer. No
mention of "here's a pack of meat for the use of your shop." Not
even some burger or sausage, let alone some real meat.

I think it would have been a nice thing to offer me something for
what I did for him. Tho, real friends don't keep score, or so I am
told. And then I have heard of others who just plain don't loan
things at all.
Where should I be on this? Am I making a big deal out of nothing? Did I
get a cheap lesson in loaning?

Opinions appreciated on loaning from your own experiences.


My "experience" on this issue comes from reading the book "The Last
Centurion" by John Ringo. In the book, he discusses societies with varying
degrees of "trust."

For example, in some Oriental societies, "trust" is limited to immediate
family members. If, for example, you loan your lawnmower to such a neighbor,
he is likely to loan it to his cousin who has a lawn-care service. When you
get it back, if you ever do and only after repeated demands, the lawnmower
is likely to be a piece of junk. The neighbor will be completely confused by
any protestations you might make over the lawmower's condition; he will be
thinking "What did you expect?"

In the instant case, you'd loan items only to a member of the same "high
trust" society as you, yourself, belong.

Lee Michaels wrote:

I remember when I was about 14, I needed to drill some large holes
through some 4 X 4's. I had a brace, but did not have that
particular size bit. Old Mr. Swanson lived down the road three miles.
He had a great shop and I worked for him each year during haying
season. So I walked down there and asked him if I could borrow a bit
for my brace. He brought the tool to me and explained to me the
following instructions.
Wrap it up. Let no harm come to the bit. Keep it sharp. When you are
done with it, resharpen it. Then coat it with oil. Wrap it up again
and bring it back. If you follow these instructions, you can borrow
tools again. If you don't, don't even bother to ask.

Well about a year later, I had to do my original project again. I
went down to see Mr. Swanson again and explained that I needed to
borrow that original bit all over again. He laughed and told me that
he checked out the bit after I brought it back the last time. He
said I did a better job sharpening it than he did. And I can borrow
any tool from him, any time I wanted.

He loved his tools. He was a retired machinist. He had a complete
machine shop next to the dairy barn. And a wild ass inventor that
restored antique tractors. He made a hell of an impression on me. I
never forgot his words and to this day, I still treat tools in the
thoughtful, reverent way he taught me.

Yep. If you return a loaned item in better shape than original (wash the
lawnmower, re-string the trimmer, sharpen the bit, etc.), you can't go
wrong.

On Monday, October 29, 2012 11:56:07 PM UTC-5, Steve B wrote:
I got a friend. Recently, he asked if he could use my shop to build a firewood box for his wife. Sure, sez me. He came and spent the day, bringing his own wood. Used the table saw, scroll saw, router, sander, various tools, glue, and screws. Kindly told me that my glue was drying out and that I needed to replace it, to which I said, add water and stir. Said thanks in a weak way. In the past two weeks, he has harvested an elk and a mule deer. No mention of "here's a pack of meat for the use of your shop." Not even some burger or sausage, let alone some real meat. I think it would have been a nice thing to offer me something for what I did for him. Tho, real friends don't keep score, or so I am told. And then I have heard of others who just plain don't loan things at all. Where should I be on this? Am I making a big deal out of nothing? Did I get a cheap lesson in loaning? Opinions appreciated on loaning from your own experiences. Steve

No comments on your experience. But for me I either do the job with my tools for the person or loan out tools only to very very good friends who I trust. This is hand type tools. Stationary tools I do the work myself. The friends I loan the tools to are close close friends. True friends. Not acquaintenances. Real friends only.

wrote

No comments on your experience. But for me I either do the job with my
tools for the person or loan out tools only to very very good friends who I
trust. This is hand type tools. Stationary tools I do the work myself.
The friends I loan the tools to are close close friends. True friends. Not
acquaintenances. Real friends only.

*******

I have reassessed my relationship and history with this individual. I
advised him Sunday before last that I would like him to remove his trailer
after it being here a year. So far, it's still here.

I am also ready to open my shop for work. I see some changes that need to
be made in policies. I owned a steel erection contracting business for nine
years. I did not deal with the public and friends due to the nature of the
commercial accounts. I did a few jobs at first of ornamental metal for
friends, and all was good. I did small repairs for cash. I did loan things
a couple of times during the contractor years, and was bitten every time.

Hope I can do better this time. Attitude will be different.

I remember an old timer who told me early on, "Someone who asks you to work
for free is not a friend." Should have taken his advice, as well as other
things I have grown old enough to regret.

Steve

I have a neighbor who helped himself to parts off one of my machines
while I was away. When I came back he told me. When he was done with it,
he didn't put it back on, he left it on top of my wood pile... never to
be found again.

Then he asked to borrow another tool. I didn't want to , but the wife
made me give it to him. He returned it not from where we took it out of
my garage, but to the back of my shed where I didn't see it. After a few
weeks, I asked what happened to it. He said I put it behind your shed.

NEVER... EVER will I lend the guy another tool. I return stuff better
than I get it. I clean it, fix it, sharpen it. I never return it in
poorer shape. If I can't return it better or equal, I buy a new one and
present that. BTW this guy treats his own tools like royalty.
Everything has a place and is properly oiled/cleaned. But not when he
borrows, he doesn't feel the same need to clean or recondition.. so they
way he treats his tools is not the way he treats mine.

There are some out there who were never taught about being a man. A man
owns up to things, and doesn't run from them. They treat each other with
respect when respect is given.

I have loaned other people tools, and I do have to say, most people
don't get it. They don't understand how important my tools are. Nor do
they understand that my tools are ready to work all the time.

Douche bags on the other hand can't be held to that level.

As far as whether he owes you anything, he doesn't. It would have been
nice that he gave you some meat, as you did him a favor.
The glue.. not a problem for me.. he was just informing you it was
going bad.

So like Mike said do it because you want to do it, or don't because you
don't.

On 10/31/2012 6:30 AM, HeyBub wrote:
Steve B wrote:
I got a friend. Recently, he asked if he could use my shop to build a
firewood box for his wife. Sure, sez me.

He came and spent the day, bringing his own wood. Used the table saw,
scroll saw, router, sander, various tools, glue, and screws. Kindly
told me that my glue was drying out and that I needed to replace it,
to which I said, add water and stir. Said thanks in a weak way.

In the past two weeks, he has harvested an elk and a mule deer. No
mention of "here's a pack of meat for the use of your shop." Not
even some burger or sausage, let alone some real meat.

I think it would have been a nice thing to offer me something for
what I did for him. Tho, real friends don't keep score, or so I am
told. And then I have heard of others who just plain don't loan
things at all.
Where should I be on this? Am I making a big deal out of nothing? Did I
get a cheap lesson in loaning?

Opinions appreciated on loaning from your own experiences.


My "experience" on this issue comes from reading the book "The Last
Centurion" by John Ringo. In the book, he discusses societies with varying
degrees of "trust."

For example, in some Oriental societies, "trust" is limited to immediate
family members. If, for example, you loan your lawnmower to such a neighbor,
he is likely to loan it to his cousin who has a lawn-care service. When you
get it back, if you ever do and only after repeated demands, the lawnmower
is likely to be a piece of junk. The neighbor will be completely confused by
any protestations you might make over the lawmower's condition; he will be
thinking "What did you expect?"

In the instant case, you'd loan items only to a member of the same "high
trust" society as you, yourself, belong.

On Thu, 01 Nov 2012 17:12:17 -0400, tiredofspam nospam.nospam.com
wrote:

I have a neighbor who helped himself to parts off one of my machines
while I was away. When I came back he told me. When he was done with it,
he didn't put it back on, he left it on top of my wood pile... never to
be found again.

Then he asked to borrow another tool. I didn't want to , but the wife
made me give it to him. He returned it not from where we took it out of
my garage, but to the back of my shed where I didn't see it. After a few
weeks, I asked what happened to it. He said I put it behind your shed.

NEVER... EVER will I lend the guy another tool. I return stuff better
than I get it. I clean it, fix it, sharpen it. I never return it in
poorer shape. If I can't return it better or equal, I buy a new one and
present that. BTW this guy treats his own tools like royalty.
Everything has a place and is properly oiled/cleaned. But not when he
borrows, he doesn't feel the same need to clean or recondition.. so they
way he treats his tools is not the way he treats mine.

There are some out there who were never taught about being a man. A man
owns up to things, and doesn't run from them. They treat each other with
respect when respect is given.

I have loaned other people tools, and I do have to say, most people
don't get it. They don't understand how important my tools are. Nor do
they understand that my tools are ready to work all the time.

Douche bags on the other hand can't be held to that level.

As far as whether he owes you anything, he doesn't. It would have been
nice that he gave you some meat, as you did him a favor.
The glue.. not a problem for me.. he was just informing you it was
going bad.

So like Mike said do it because you want to do it, or don't because you
don't.


I wouldn't loan to him either. I've got two neighbors that borrow
tools. One is no problem we go back and forth with all kinds of
things and do work trades that we don't even keep track off. The
other neighbor is a space cadet, doesn't hurt tools, but I won't lend
him anything he can hurt himself with and definitly supervise when
needed. He has some wierd nuerological thing where they give him a
lot of pain pills and muscle relaxants. Sometimes I can here him
making wierd noises at the top of his voice. He keeps giving them to
me which keeps my Dr. happy as she thinks I hardly use the ones she
prescribes. She allows me one a day for the evening, and the muscle
relaxants. I've had bad leg injuries. So before anyone goes off I
haven't had either in over 2 weeks. I don't take it unless I need it.
Beats my first neighbor who was from California. I'd come home and
the driveway was all wet, and there would be empty pop cans. Finally
found out he was coming over to use my hose and driveway to wash his
truck. Geez if he asked first and cleaned up it would have been fine.
Same neighbor came over while I was building my shop and asked if I
had any spare lumber. Ever since then people from California tend to
scare me a little. He may not be the normal but it was interesting
while he was there. I'll save his wife for another time.

Mike M

tiredofspam nospam.nospam.com wrote in
:

*snip*


So like Mike said do it because you want to do it, or don't because
you don't.

Somewhere I read about one guy who didn't loan out his tools. Instead, if
someone needed a tool to complete their project he'd bring the tool and
come along to help. Good way to get around the issue of loaning and keep
the tool in trusted hands. (OTOH, sometimes you don't want to get dragged
in to someone else's project.)

Puckdropper
--
Make it to fit, don't make it fit.

Yea, I have offered, and he always refuses the help.
I personally don't like lending my tools. But fighting with the wife is
always a losing proposition if you know what I mean :-( She is friends
with his wife.



On 11/1/2012 11:05 PM, Puckdropper wrote:
tiredofspam nospam.nospam.com wrote in
:

*snip*


So like Mike said do it because you want to do it, or don't because
you don't.

Somewhere I read about one guy who didn't loan out his tools. Instead, if
someone needed a tool to complete their project he'd bring the tool and
come along to help. Good way to get around the issue of loaning and keep
the tool in trusted hands. (OTOH, sometimes you don't want to get dragged
in to someone else's project.)

Puckdropper

"tiredofspam" nospam.nospam.com wrote in message
...
I have a neighbor who helped himself to parts off one of my machines while
I was away. When I came back he told me. When he was done with it, he
didn't put it back on, he left it on top of my wood pile... never to be
found again.

Then he asked to borrow another tool. I didn't want to , but the wife made
me give it to him. He returned it not from where we took it out of my
garage, but to the back of my shed where I didn't see it. After a few
weeks, I asked what happened to it. He said I put it behind your shed.

NEVER... EVER will I lend the guy another tool. I return stuff better than
I get it. I clean it, fix it, sharpen it. I never return it in poorer
shape. If I can't return it better or equal, I buy a new one and present
that. BTW this guy treats his own tools like royalty. Everything has a
place and is properly oiled/cleaned. But not when he borrows, he doesn't
feel the same need to clean or recondition.. so they way he treats his
tools is not the way he treats mine.

There are some out there who were never taught about being a man. A man
owns up to things, and doesn't run from them. They treat each other with
respect when respect is given.

I have loaned other people tools, and I do have to say, most people don't
get it. They don't understand how important my tools are. Nor do they
understand that my tools are ready to work all the time.

Douche bags on the other hand can't be held to that level.

As far as whether he owes you anything, he doesn't. It would have been
nice that he gave you some meat, as you did him a favor.
The glue.. not a problem for me.. he was just informing you it was going
bad.

So like Mike said do it because you want to do it, or don't because you
don't.


Some good advice. Thank you.

Steve

"Puckdropper" puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com wrote in message
eb.com...
tiredofspam nospam.nospam.com wrote in
:

*snip*


So like Mike said do it because you want to do it, or don't because
you don't.

Somewhere I read about one guy who didn't loan out his tools. Instead, if
someone needed a tool to complete their project he'd bring the tool and
come along to help. Good way to get around the issue of loaning and keep
the tool in trusted hands. (OTOH, sometimes you don't want to get dragged
in to someone else's project.)

Puckdropper
--
Make it to fit, don't make it fit.

I used to do ornamental metal when I got started steel erection contracting.
I'd get a call for a bid. I did nice work, ahead of the curve of what was
currently available for the time. $3,000 bender, good tools. Whenever I
got someone who balked at the price, or the half in front, I'd just put a
check mark in the upper left of the three copy proposal. This meant not to
fool with this turkey. Had people who said it was too high, their
brother-in-law would do it for less, or the Mexican on the corner at the
nursery quoted him less. By and large, they would call me a month or two
later asking me to come straighten out the mess. Sure, sez me, $95 an hour
for a truck and two men. Four hour minimum. But, I was busy for the next
three or four months, and would be there some time after that. Then I said
to just ask the person who did the install to come back and do it right.
That is what a licensed contractor does, and that is the difference with
dealing with a licensed contractor, and a brother-in-law deal. Never had
one Contractor Board complaint in nine years.

Steve