On Mon, 06 Feb 2012 00:44:32 +0000 (GMT), Stuart
wrote:

In article ,
zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
Which is why I said they would have to be specially designed.

If they *could* be. Indeed, if they could be, someone would have done
it.

Just find the money (lots of it probably) and ask B&K

Physics can be a bitch.

On Mon, 6 Feb 2012 06:54:17 -0500, "Mike Marlow"
wrote:

wrote:


It must be the noise that causes the speed, right?

No... everybody knows it's the K&N stickers that cause the speed...

Rear spoilers.

Robatoy wrote:

I once convinced a audiophile that there was this guy who calibrated
all RIAA eq's by ear. His name? Fletcher Munson of course G

Yep, ol' Fletch even managed to get his own button on almost every consumer
amplifier.
--
www.ewoodshop.com

" wrote:
On Mon, 06 Feb 2012 15:30:07 -0600, Markem wrote:

On Sun, 05 Feb 2012 18:44:06 -0500, "
wrote:

Where "represent" == "perfectly reproduce"

I have yet to see the audio equitment either analog or digital that
pefectly reproduces any recorded sounds.

Because the components aren't perfect (or perfectible). The math is.

Nope. Not when you advocate, as you have, removing much of the material
needed for "math" to be used to effect a solution.

Cutesy little one liners, though ... even if more than a bit shallow.

--
www.ewoodshop.com

" wrote:
On Mon, 06 Feb 2012 00:44:32 +0000 (GMT), Stuart
wrote:

In article ,
zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
Which is why I said they would have to be specially designed.

If they *could* be. Indeed, if they could be, someone would have done
it.

Just find the money (lots of it probably) and ask B&K

Physics can be a bitch.

Certainly has you confused.

--
www.ewoodshop.com

In article
,
David Paste wrote:
Which canal?

Dudley Port railway station to Birmingham.

Part Birmingham "New Mainline" to Pudding Green junction, part Walsall
canal to Doe Bank junction, Tame valley canal via Rushall junction as far
as Salford junction then down the Grand Union to Aston Junction. From
there we walked to the Wetherspoons in the city centre. We'd already
completed the Birmingham "New Mainline" in it's entirety and the "Aston
ring". It was a way of walking the Tame Valley canal that allowed us to
use public transport.

We've already walked a lot of canals in the area but have a few still to
do.

Next month we walk from Wolverhampton to Walsall and the April walk is
from Walsall, up via the Wyrley and Essington to Catshill junction, then
south through Rushall to the Tame valley canal, terminating the walk at
Tame Valley Parkway rail station - estimated at 18 miles.

I assume you know the canal network round the Midlands fairly well?

--
Stuart Winsor

Only plain text for emails
http://www.asciiribbon.org

In article ,
zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
14Ga = 2.08mm^2

D(mm) = e^(2.1104-.11594n)

If that's too hard:

D(mm) = .127 x 92^((36-n)/39)

Where D is the diameter in mm and n is the wire gauge. Simple, huh? ;-)

Ta for that.

--
Stuart Winsor

Only plain text for emails
http://www.asciiribbon.org

" wrote:
On Sun, 05 Feb 2012 16:30:58 -0600, Swingman wrote:

On 2/5/2012 3:19 PM, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:


You obviously wouldn't understand Nyquist if I explained it to you, or you
wouldn't have posted a reference to a site that shows my point.

Let me say it once again:

"An audio CD can represent frequencies up to 22.05 kHz, the Nyquist
frequency of the 44.1 kHz sample rate."

At best, sure. ...as long as your "represent" means *perfectly* reproduce. So
far, so good.

Wrong again ... "represent" is not my term. It is in fact part of the
actual technical definition of the Red Book audio CD standard:

http://www.sccs.swarthmore.edu/users...standard).html

Making your total ignorance of the basics of the issue even more apparent.

And so now you agree ... meaning you were wrong to begin with and have
publicly admitted it.

How much better than *perfect* does a waveform need to be for an audiophool?
IOW, you're arguing my point. Thanks.

It's you that's pwned, Dude.

--
www.ewoodshop.com

On 2/3/2012 9:37 AM, wrote:
On Feb 2, 7:49 pm, wrote:
On Thu, 02 Feb 2012 18:04:39 -0600, Leonlcb11211@swbelldotnet

That PC detail sander, 556 PC biscuit cutter, no not the 557, the Delta
scroll saw, my old Ryobi AP10 planer and my Craftsman jointer all got
scooped up at once.

After two years of sitting on the shelf, I just recently sold my Freud
biscuit jointer for $50. I included a box of 2000 biscuits in the
sale. I can't quite remember what I paid for those biscuits, but I'm
pretty sure it was more than $50. Don't care, my Domino has replaced
anything I ever used the biscuit joiner for.

Surprised by that. Seems for edge gluing 3/4" boards to make a panel,
the biscuit jointer would be quicker and easier and more than good
enough for alignment and strength. Not sure why you would need or
want slip tenons to edge joint boards.

Why would you think the biscuit "joiner" to be quicker and or easier
than a Domino? That has absolutely not been my experience.

On Feb 3, 8:45*am, Robatoy wrote:
On Feb 3, 8:37*am, Dave wrote:
[snipped for brevity]

After all, we're woodworkers who have been hammering nails all our
lives and putting up with the screaming of cheap dust collectors.
(until we bought our Festool dust collectors). So, most of us have
lost our fine edge of hearing a long time ago.

Our hearing goes for a crap with age, regardless. That hearing loss
can/will be accelerated when exposed to damaging sound sources of high
level, pitchm duration, etc. A jack-hammer, for instance, won't cause
as much damage as a bitching woman.

LOL!!

Had to go to google to see this. Something wrong on usenet.

On 2/7/2012 7:39 AM, Leon wrote:
On 2/3/2012 9:37 AM, wrote:
On Feb 2, 7:49 pm, wrote:
On Thu, 02 Feb 2012 18:04:39 -0600, Leonlcb11211@swbelldotnet

That PC detail sander, 556 PC biscuit cutter, no not the 557, the Delta
scroll saw, my old Ryobi AP10 planer and my Craftsman jointer all got
scooped up at once.

After two years of sitting on the shelf, I just recently sold my Freud
biscuit jointer for $50. I included a box of 2000 biscuits in the
sale. I can't quite remember what I paid for those biscuits, but I'm
pretty sure it was more than $50. Don't care, my Domino has replaced
anything I ever used the biscuit joiner for.

Surprised by that. Seems for edge gluing 3/4" boards to make a panel,
the biscuit jointer would be quicker and easier and more than good
enough for alignment and strength. Not sure why you would need or
want slip tenons to edge joint boards.

Why would you think the biscuit "joiner" to be quicker and or easier
than a Domino? That has absolutely not been my experience.

Actually why use a biscuit joiner at all if you have the Domino?

The Domino will do much more than simply help with making panels. The
Domino pretty much replaces the bench top mortiser and the biscuit
joiner and does so with much more accuracy than either.

On Tue, 07 Feb 2012 07:39:14 -0600, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
Surprised by that. Seems for edge gluing 3/4" boards to make a panel,
the biscuit jointer would be quicker and easier and more than good
enough for alignment and strength. Not sure why you would need or
want slip tenons to edge joint boards.

Why would you think the biscuit "joiner" to be quicker and or easier
than a Domino? That has absolutely not been my experience.

And, a biscuit joiner is really only good for alignment. It doesn't do
very much for holding power. The Domino does both, aside from the
speed and accuracy of the use.

On 2/7/2012 7:43 AM, Leon wrote:
On 2/7/2012 7:39 AM, Leon wrote:
On 2/3/2012 9:37 AM, wrote:
On Feb 2, 7:49 pm, wrote:
On Thu, 02 Feb 2012 18:04:39 -0600, Leonlcb11211@swbelldotnet

That PC detail sander, 556 PC biscuit cutter, no not the 557, the
Delta
scroll saw, my old Ryobi AP10 planer and my Craftsman jointer all got
scooped up at once.

After two years of sitting on the shelf, I just recently sold my Freud
biscuit jointer for $50. I included a box of 2000 biscuits in the
sale. I can't quite remember what I paid for those biscuits, but I'm
pretty sure it was more than $50. Don't care, my Domino has replaced
anything I ever used the biscuit joiner for.

Surprised by that. Seems for edge gluing 3/4" boards to make a panel,
the biscuit jointer would be quicker and easier and more than good
enough for alignment and strength. Not sure why you would need or
want slip tenons to edge joint boards.

Why would you think the biscuit "joiner" to be quicker and or easier
than a Domino? That has absolutely not been my experience.

Actually why use a biscuit joiner at all if you have the Domino?

The Domino will do much more than simply help with making panels. The
Domino pretty much replaces the bench top mortiser and the biscuit
joiner and does so with much more accuracy than either.

and for the money, it should assemble, glue and clamp the assembly for
you also.

--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email

On Tue, 07 Feb 2012 08:00:59 -0600, Steve Barker
Domino pretty much replaces the bench top mortiser and the biscuit
joiner and does so with much more accuracy than either.

and for the money, it should assemble, glue and clamp the assembly for
you also.

It *does*. Once you show your neighbour how to use the Domino, he will
come every time to assemble your projects *and* bring over the beer
for afterwards.

When was the last time your bench top mortiser gave your beer?

On 2/7/2012 8:00 AM, Steve Barker wrote:
On 2/7/2012 7:43 AM, Leon wrote:
On 2/7/2012 7:39 AM, Leon wrote:
On 2/3/2012 9:37 AM, wrote:
On Feb 2, 7:49 pm, wrote:
On Thu, 02 Feb 2012 18:04:39 -0600, Leonlcb11211@swbelldotnet

That PC detail sander, 556 PC biscuit cutter, no not the 557, the
Delta
scroll saw, my old Ryobi AP10 planer and my Craftsman jointer all got
scooped up at once.

After two years of sitting on the shelf, I just recently sold my Freud
biscuit jointer for $50. I included a box of 2000 biscuits in the
sale. I can't quite remember what I paid for those biscuits, but I'm
pretty sure it was more than $50. Don't care, my Domino has replaced
anything I ever used the biscuit joiner for.

Surprised by that. Seems for edge gluing 3/4" boards to make a panel,
the biscuit jointer would be quicker and easier and more than good
enough for alignment and strength. Not sure why you would need or
want slip tenons to edge joint boards.

Why would you think the biscuit "joiner" to be quicker and or easier
than a Domino? That has absolutely not been my experience.

Actually why use a biscuit joiner at all if you have the Domino?

The Domino will do much more than simply help with making panels. The
Domino pretty much replaces the bench top mortiser and the biscuit
joiner and does so with much more accuracy than either.

and for the money, it should assemble, glue and clamp the assembly for
you also.


Only if you don't use the machine enough to pay for itself. I figure
mine has saved me in excess of 200 hours of my time in the last 4 years.
Now I don't know what you value your time at but that is about $9K of
billable hours for me. But as with anything if you buy it and don't use
it it is an expensive tool. This time last year I got a job to build 32
maple drawers with 3~4 exposed Domino reinforced tenons in each of the
four corner joints. Those drawers had been previously built by some one
else but a sample of mine earned me that job to rebuild those drawers.
I used almost 400 dominos on those drawers and that job alone paid
for the Domino machine and the Festool CT22 Vac. I cut those 400
mortises and glued in those 400 dominos in 3~4 hours. How long would
that have taken you to to do the same with out the benefit of the Domino
mortiser?

And to go back a post or two, the question was asked why use the Domino
over the Biscuit? When you already own both, the answer is pretty simple.

So rethink your statement and if you think that it still applies you
clearly have no idea concerning the Domino.

On 2/7/2012 7:43 AM, Leon wrote:


The Domino will do much more than simply help with making panels. The
Domino pretty much replaces the bench top mortiser and the biscuit
joiner and does so with much more accuracy than either.


Are you going to switch to the XL when it comes out?

--
www.eWoodShop.com
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
http://gplus.to/eWoodShop

On Feb 7, 9:46*am, Stuart wrote:
In article
,
* *David Paste wrote:

Which canal?

Dudley Port railway station to Birmingham.

Part Birmingham "New Mainline" to Pudding Green junction, part Walsall
canal to Doe Bank junction, Tame valley canal via Rushall junction as far
as Salford junction then down the Grand Union to Aston Junction. From
there we walked to the Wetherspoons in the city centre. We'd already
completed the Birmingham "New Mainline" in it's entirety and the "Aston
ring". It was a way of walking the Tame Valley canal that allowed us to
use public transport.

We've already walked a lot of canals in the area but have a few still to
do.

Next month we walk from Wolverhampton to Walsall and the April walk is
from Walsall, up via the Wyrley and Essington to Catshill junction, then
south through Rushall to the Tame valley canal, terminating the walk at
Tame Valley Parkway rail station - estimated at 18 miles.

Sounds good, although I think 18 miles in a day would be beyond me!

I assume you know the canal network round the Midlands fairly well?

No, I don't know the Midlands well at all, I just like canals. I live
between the Bridgewater and the Manchester Ship Canal. I like the
history and the engineering of them - fascinating stuff. I also live
near (enough) to Sankey Brook Nav and Stephenson's lovely old bridge!

On Feb 7, 8:46*am, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:
On 2/7/2012 8:00 AM, Steve Barker wrote:





On 2/7/2012 7:43 AM, Leon wrote:
On 2/7/2012 7:39 AM, Leon wrote:
On 2/3/2012 9:37 AM, wrote:
On Feb 2, 7:49 pm, wrote:
On Thu, 02 Feb 2012 18:04:39 -0600, Leonlcb11211@swbelldotnet

That PC detail sander, 556 PC biscuit cutter, no not the 557, the
Delta
scroll saw, my old Ryobi AP10 planer and my Craftsman jointer all got
scooped up at once.

After two years of sitting on the shelf, I just recently sold my Freud
biscuit jointer for $50. I included a box of 2000 biscuits in the
sale. I can't quite remember what I paid for those biscuits, but I'm
pretty sure it was more than $50. Don't care, my Domino has replaced
anything I ever used the biscuit joiner for.

Surprised by that. Seems for edge gluing 3/4" boards to make a panel,
the biscuit jointer would be quicker and easier and more than good
enough for alignment and strength. Not sure why you would need or
want slip tenons to edge joint boards.

Why would you think the biscuit "joiner" to be quicker and or easier
than a Domino? That has absolutely not been my experience.

Actually why use a biscuit joiner at all if you have the Domino?

The Domino will do much more than simply help with making panels. The
Domino pretty much replaces the bench top mortiser and the biscuit
joiner and does so with much more accuracy than either.

and for the money, it should assemble, glue and clamp the assembly for
you also.

Only if you don't use the machine enough to pay for itself. *I figure
mine has saved me in excess of 200 hours of my time in the last 4 years.
* Now I don't know what you value your time at but that is about $9K of
billable hours for me. But as with anything if you buy it and don't use
it it is an expensive tool. *This time last year I got a job to build 32
* maple drawers with 3~4 exposed Domino reinforced tenons in each of the
four corner joints. *Those drawers had been previously built by some one
else but a sample of mine earned me that job to rebuild those drawers.
* I used almost 400 dominos *on those drawers and that job alone paid
for the Domino machine and the Festool CT22 Vac. *I cut those 400
mortises and glued in those 400 dominos in 3~4 hours. *How long would
that have taken you to to do the same with out the benefit of the Domino
mortiser?

And to go back a post or two, the question was asked why use the Domino
over the Biscuit? *When you already own both, the answer is pretty simple.

That is the question. IF you own both, why not use the biscuit joiner
for the job it is really good at? Edge joining boards to make a
panel. The Domino may also be extra good at this. Maybe even
better. But the biscuit joiner can edge join boards in seconds. On
my DeWalt, just flip the fence down to 90 degrees, set the cutter to a
#20 biscuit, plunge. Done. The Domino will take a second or two
longer because it is cutting a deeper and thicker mortise. Edge
joining does not require much extra strength besides what the board
edges provide and the biscuits are mostly for alignment purposes. And
the biscuits are much cheaper than Dominos. From a cost perspective,
the biscuit joiner wins over the Domino. Now obviously for anything
requiring the strength of the slip mortise and speed, the Domino has
its place. But edge joining boards into a panel, the biscuit joiner
seems the better tool. If you own the Domino, no reason to buy a
biscuit joiner. But if you own both already, don't see the point of
selling the biscuit joiner for almost nothing.








So rethink your statement and if you think that it still applies you
clearly have no idea concerning the Domino.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

CDs produce a lot of distortion at the high end frequencies and sound
very harsh to people that can still hear them. Karl touched on this,
roughly, but didn't state the distortion conditions for the rest of the
formula.

Also the dynamic range produces more distortion in waveforms at the
lower end of the amplitude scales on any digital recording without
dynamic amplitude scales. The resolution of the values becomes very low
resolution.

I still prefer the CD recordings over the vinyl, though. I confess I
haven't played one for years with all the hard drive versions
available.


-------------
"David Paste" wrote in message
...

On Feb 3, 6:23 pm, Swingman wrote:

One of the main reason why music recorded to analog tape and
reproduced
by vinyl records sounds "better" to most listeners ... mostly noticed
by
an increase in the qualities of depth, clarity and definition in a
side
by side comparison ... than digitally recorded/reproduced audio.

I'd argue with that - I have recordings of vinyl on minidisc and CD
which sound every bit as good as from the record itself. My own
personal view is that it is likely the mildly compressed nature of the
vinyl audio signal, and the (possible) low bass rumble of the vinyl
will make the music more pleasing - there is a notion that dynamic
compression is a bad thing in audio recording, and when it is over
done, it is. But used properly, it isn't, and vinyl has a lower
dynamic range than CD.

Things to consider:

1. Source.

What is the source material?
What is the capacity of this source material to contain frequencies
beyond the 'normal' reproduction values i.e. if records DO produce
higher-frequency sonics, how are these processed through the
associated electronics?
For CDs, how well can the DAC circuitry deal with the higher freqs.?

2. Amplifier.

What is the bandwidth of the amplifier?
What are the characteristics of the amp? i.e. does it amplify the
ultrasound in the same manner as the audible stuff?

3. Loudspeakers.

Are the LS actually capable of reproducing these ultrasonics?

4. Ears.

Are you capable of hearing the ultrasonics?
Many tests of people 'hearing' ultrasonics are conducted with a
transducer against the skull - if they were reproduced by a
conventional loudspeaker, would they be produced loud enough to have a
discernible effect? What is the attenuation of ultrasonics like?

There are many, MANY variables to look at, and by-and-large albums are
not produced with anything like the care needed to get your nerd on
about very very technical aspects of audio technology - it is NOT
about music. A few years ago a chap named Jose Gonzales released an
album called Veneer to much critical acclaim, and indeed it contained
a number of lovely songs, but the technical aspect of the quality of
the sound was, frankly, dreadful. But it did not matter, as the
technical aspect is a small part of that album. Not to say that it
wouldn't have improved the album - it would, but listening to a ****ty
copy of Brothers in Arms by Dire Straits on cassette is still
enjoyable, it's just DIFFERENT from the CD releases.

No vinyl or CD can come close to a 24 bit, 192Khz digital file for
*potential accuracy* though, and nothing EVER lives up to your MEMORY
of the sound!

To paraphrase a nuclear physicist who is also an avid music enthusiast
I once asked about this, cables make bugger-all difference in a home
setting, so long as they are of the minimum or greater electrical
specification.

Please don't think I am trying to flat-out say "Ah, you're wrong!", I
am not, rather, I am trying to convey that everyone is different,
everyone has different preferences for how what they listen to is
reproduced (I like a good bit of bass, and find treble that many
others would find OK to be oppressive and tiring, for example) and
there are so many technical aspects to the electronics used that it is
akin to tilting at windmills to say "this is definite" - I have no
religion, and if I did, I wouldn't choose audio!

On 2/7/2012 9:32 AM, wrote:
On Feb 7, 8:46 am, Leonlcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:
On 2/7/2012 8:00 AM, Steve Barker wrote:





On 2/7/2012 7:43 AM, Leon wrote:
On 2/7/2012 7:39 AM, Leon wrote:
On 2/3/2012 9:37 AM, wrote:
On Feb 2, 7:49 pm, wrote:
On Thu, 02 Feb 2012 18:04:39 -0600, Leonlcb11211@swbelldotnet

That PC detail sander, 556 PC biscuit cutter, no not the 557, the
Delta
scroll saw, my old Ryobi AP10 planer and my Craftsman jointer all got
scooped up at once.

After two years of sitting on the shelf, I just recently sold my Freud
biscuit jointer for $50. I included a box of 2000 biscuits in the
sale. I can't quite remember what I paid for those biscuits, but I'm
pretty sure it was more than $50. Don't care, my Domino has replaced
anything I ever used the biscuit joiner for.

Surprised by that. Seems for edge gluing 3/4" boards to make a panel,
the biscuit jointer would be quicker and easier and more than good
enough for alignment and strength. Not sure why you would need or
want slip tenons to edge joint boards.

Why would you think the biscuit "joiner" to be quicker and or easier
than a Domino? That has absolutely not been my experience.

Actually why use a biscuit joiner at all if you have the Domino?

The Domino will do much more than simply help with making panels. The
Domino pretty much replaces the bench top mortiser and the biscuit
joiner and does so with much more accuracy than either.

and for the money, it should assemble, glue and clamp the assembly for
you also.

Only if you don't use the machine enough to pay for itself. I figure
mine has saved me in excess of 200 hours of my time in the last 4 years.
Now I don't know what you value your time at but that is about $9K of
billable hours for me. But as with anything if you buy it and don't use
it it is an expensive tool. This time last year I got a job to build 32
maple drawers with 3~4 exposed Domino reinforced tenons in each of the
four corner joints. Those drawers had been previously built by some one
else but a sample of mine earned me that job to rebuild those drawers.
I used almost 400 dominos on those drawers and that job alone paid
for the Domino machine and the Festool CT22 Vac. I cut those 400
mortises and glued in those 400 dominos in 3~4 hours. How long would
that have taken you to to do the same with out the benefit of the Domino
mortiser?

And to go back a post or two, the question was asked why use the Domino
over the Biscuit? When you already own both, the answer is pretty simple.

That is the question. IF you own both, why not use the biscuit joiner
for the job it is really good at? Edge joining boards to make a
panel. The Domino may also be extra good at this. Maybe even
better. But the biscuit joiner can edge join boards in seconds. On
my DeWalt, just flip the fence down to 90 degrees, set the cutter to a
#20 biscuit, plunge. Done.

Precisely the same for the the Domino, it operates "EXACTLY' like and
adjusts just as fast as the biscuit joiner. It closely resembles my PC
557 biscuit joiner. The difference is in the results, you get a 5~12mm
thick straight sided mortice that can be set for a precice fit so there
is not left,right,up, or down movement of the mating surfaces..vs. a
5/32" thick oval slit which does OK with up and down.


The Domino will take a second or two
longer because it is cutting a deeper and thicker mortise.

Maybe "1" second longer but the fit of the cut is 5 times better. You
do not have as much glue that escapes the slot during insertion of the
tenons, the tenons do make the surfaces align properly at the tenon
location even if one of the surfaces is not flat, I have had numerous
instances in the last 20 years where the biscuit just did not have the
grab and or strength to not flex and would allow mating surfaces to not
be perfect.

Edge
joining does not require much extra strength besides what the board
edges provide and the biscuits are mostly for alignment purposes.

That is true if jointing solid wood to solid wood. The domino ads great
strength to mitered corners, plywood to wood and plywood to plywood
edges, MDF to MDF edges, any type of butt joint.


And
the biscuits are much cheaper than Dominos. From a cost perspective,
the biscuit joiner wins over the Domino. Now obviously for anything
requiring the strength of the slip mortise and speed, the Domino has
its place. But edge joining boards into a panel, the biscuit joiner
seems the better tool. If you own the Domino, no reason to buy a
biscuit joiner. But if you own both already, don't see the point of
selling the biscuit joiner for almost nothing.

Lets look at that. Apples to Apples in similar quality, 1000 assorted
PC Biscuits for $27 or Freud for $31 through Amazon.

http://www.amazon.com/Freud-900-XX-B...630086&sr=8-10

http://www.amazon.com/Porter-Cable-5...8630274&sr=8-2

Or 1800 5mm Dominos for $75. from Amazon.

http://www.amazon.com/Porter-Cable-5...8630274&sr=8-2

3 cents each for the Biscuit or 4 cents each for the 5mm Donino.
All things being equal with similar size the much better Domino is 1
cent more expensive than the biscuit per unit.

So owning both would it be worth your time to drag out the biscuit
joiner for this specific job over the Domino to save 20 cents on 40
cuts? As little as I use my biscuit joiner I wold loose $1 in time just
to get the ladder and pull it down from the top shelf and return it
after cutting those few slots.

Don't get me wrong here, I probably used 2~3 thousand biscuits on the
past 20 years. I have used in excess of 2 thousand Dominoes in the past
4 years. I clearly see and have first hand knowledge why the Domino is
the better choice in all instances.

BUT if you only have the biscuit joiner and don't sell your work a
Domino might not be for you. If you appreciate the precision and
quality of the cuts and fit that the Domino affords you for everything
that it allows you to do it is a big time saver.

On 2/7/2012 8:10 AM, Dave wrote:
On Tue, 07 Feb 2012 08:00:59 -0600, Steve Barker
Domino pretty much replaces the bench top mortiser and the biscuit
joiner and does so with much more accuracy than either.

and for the money, it should assemble, glue and clamp the assembly for
you also.

It *does*. Once you show your neighbour how to use the Domino, he will
come every time to assemble your projects *and* bring over the beer
for afterwards.

When was the last time your bench top mortiser gave your beer?

gotcha! ordering one now. Oh wait! i don't have any neighbors and i
don't drink. what to do now?

--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email

On 2/7/2012 11:39 AM, Steve Barker wrote:

gotcha! ordering one now. Oh wait! i don't have any neighbors and i
don't drink. what to do now?

Put your order in anyway ... you will soon have neighbors, and the beer
drinking will follow.

Just ask Leon if that is not how that works.

--
www.eWoodShop.com
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
http://gplus.to/eWoodShop

On 2/7/2012 11:44 AM, Swingman wrote:
On 2/7/2012 11:39 AM, Steve Barker wrote:

gotcha! ordering one now. Oh wait! i don't have any neighbors and i
don't drink. what to do now?

Put your order in anyway ... you will soon have neighbors, and the beer
drinking will follow.

Just ask Leon if that is not how that works.


my woodworking is in it's infancy. I'm still working on figuring out
how to join the mitered corners of a picture frame i built out of red
oak approx 1x3's. (it's a large frame).

--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email

On 2/7/2012 11:47 AM, Steve Barker wrote:
On 2/7/2012 11:44 AM, Swingman wrote:
On 2/7/2012 11:39 AM, Steve Barker wrote:

gotcha! ordering one now. Oh wait! i don't have any neighbors and i
don't drink. what to do now?

Put your order in anyway ... you will soon have neighbors, and the beer
drinking will follow.

Just ask Leon if that is not how that works.


my woodworking is in it's infancy. I'm still working on figuring out how
to join the mitered corners of a picture frame i built out of red oak
approx 1x3's. (it's a large frame).

Just some options:

Biscuits are the fastest, simplest, and cheapest (providing you already
own a plate joiner). This large frame was done with biscuits:

https://picasaweb.google.com/1113554...tiveEffort2011

As was this:

https://picasaweb.google.com/1113554...60428478601266

Splines are also very easy to do on a table saw with a simple jig and do
a fairly effective job of strengthening an inherently weak joint.

http://e-woodshop.net/images/SplineJig.jpg

And here is a result of a one type of spline in these trivet miter joints:

http://e-woodshop.net/images/Trivets6.jpg

A Domino works well also, and is arguably stronger that the above methods.

Half lapped miter joints gives you much more glue surface area, but are
pretty tricky to do without a lot of trial and error if you haven't done
it before. Here is our very own wRec'er, Brian Grella, of Garage
Woodworks with a video on how to do it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_7MBWrrE-2k


--
www.eWoodShop.com
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
http://gplus.to/eWoodShop

On Tue, 07 Feb 2012 09:23:41 -0600, Swingman wrote:
Are you going to switch to the XL when it comes out?

That's been discussed frequently on the FOG. The general consensus is
that the XL will not replace the original version because of the great
size differences in the dominos biscuits themselves.

On 2/7/2012 12:34 PM, Dave wrote:
On Tue, 07 Feb 2012 09:23:41 -0600, wrote:
Are you going to switch to the XL when it comes out?

That's been discussed frequently on the FOG. The general consensus is
that the XL will not replace the original version because of the great
size differences in the dominos biscuits themselves.


Shhh ... don't let Leon hear that. I was trying to set up a deal on his
old, POS, overused, wornout, soon to be obsolete, Domino!

--
www.eWoodShop.com
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
http://gplus.to/eWoodShop

On Tue, 7 Feb 2012 07:32:45 -0800 (PST), "
But edge joining boards into a panel, the biscuit joiner
seems the better tool. If you own the Domino, no reason to buy a
biscuit joiner. But if you own both already, don't see the point of
selling the biscuit joiner for almost nothing.

But, it's not a great tool, just an ok one. Biscuit joiners were fine
for what they did when they came out in the market, but aside from
their cost, the Domino has all but replaced biscuit joiners and done
it better too.

Biscuits are also ok for alignment, but not perfect. They are not fine
for joining boards. Even the #20 biscuits are just shy of 1" wide if I
remember properly. That's all of 1/2" at only it's widest point edge
glued into each board. That's not a lot of holding power. The Domino
biscuits give quite a bit more holding power, both in width, length
and strength.

Joiner biscuits can slide around too, sometimes making edge gluing
less than perfect, especially when clamping. Domino biscuits can't
slide around and with the ease of use accompanied by the Domino's
accuracy when cutting, inaccurate mortise cuts are all but a thing of
the past.

It's the same explanation repeated ad nauseam. If you haven't tried
one then you really don't know. A same suggestion too. Go to some
dealer's Festool demo day and try one out. I can't emphasize this
enough.

On Tue, 07 Feb 2012 11:47:27 -0600, Steve Barker
my woodworking is in it's infancy. I'm still working on figuring out
how to join the mitered corners of a picture frame i built out of red
oak approx 1x3's. (it's a large frame).

And, if you're looking for easy, you might try one of these. I bought
one and it works a treat, even with larger mitered edges. You just
insert several of the V-nails.
http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/pag...13&cat=1,43293

In article ,
Swingman wrote:

On 2/7/2012 12:34 PM, Dave wrote:
On Tue, 07 Feb 2012 09:23:41 -0600, wrote:
Are you going to switch to the XL when it comes out?

That's been discussed frequently on the FOG. The general consensus is
that the XL will not replace the original version because of the great
size differences in the dominos biscuits themselves.


Shhh ... don't let Leon hear that. I was trying to set up a deal on his
old, POS, overused, wornout, soon to be obsolete, Domino!

I have been watching a few European videos about the XL and it would
appear to me that one wouldn't want to get rid of the 'old' Domino.
That XL would work well in boat building, outdoor furniture and other
big projects. If I had to pick just one, it would still be the old style
Domino.
In my way of thinking, the XL would be hard to justify. (Unless I had a
ton of work for it, of course.)

Other than that, what am I missing?

On Tue, 07 Feb 2012 12:37:47 -0600, Swingman wrote:
Shhh ... don't let Leon hear that. I was trying to set up a deal on his
old, POS, overused, wornout, soon to be obsolete, Domino!

Why? You two meet in the middle of the street every morning for the
daily tool swap anyway. Has Leon been holding out on you lately?

Now I'm wondering what other nifty tools he's been hoarding in his
workshop?

On Feb 7, 2:07*pm, Dave wrote:
On Tue, 07 Feb 2012 12:37:47 -0600, Swingman wrote:
Shhh ... don't let Leon hear that. I was trying to set up a deal on his
old, POS, overused, wornout, soon to be obsolete, Domino!

Why? You two meet in the middle of the street every morning for the
daily tool swap anyway. Has Leon been holding out on you lately?

Now I'm wondering what other nifty tools he's been hoarding in his
workshop?

I won't be lending this one out:
http://www.woodessence.com/Mirka-CER...r-P186C59.aspx

On Tue, 7 Feb 2012 11:09:44 -0800 (PST), Robatoy
I won't be lending this one out:
http://www.woodessence.com/Mirka-CER...r-P186C59.aspx

Admit it. You just like the Mirka Bulldog Max Performance Quick Dry
cap.

On Tue, 07 Feb 2012 14:05:54 -0500, Robatoy
wrote:

If I had to pick just one, it would still be the old style Domino.
In my way of thinking, the XL would be hard to justify.

I've heard it's pretty good for door construction. A well built wooden
door goes for some serious money these days.

In article
,
David Paste wrote:
Sounds good, although I think 18 miles in a day would be beyond me!

When Rachel (my eldest daughter) and I were sitting in Wetherspoon's with
a pint each of "Thatchers Gold" (cider), feeling absolutely
cream-crackerd, I said "Do you reckon we can manage this 20 miler?" (walks
are always actually longer than map estimate but I have a Garmin e-trex
legend HCx that gives actual milage and speed afterwards, so I tend to
round stuff up). The reply was "We'll see how it goes".

On the other hand, we've already done 17 miles twice (in rather better
weather). It's just a matter of working up to it. Canals do have the
advantage of being virtually flat g

We started this two or three years ago when Rachel decided she wanted to
do a sponsored walk to raise some money for a charity -
http://www.mercyships.org.uk/what-we-do

She roped me in as her companion and was originally proposing to walk from
Oxford to Coventry (80 miles) over four days but after a few "training
walks" it quickly became apparent that it was not practical, so we did
Oxford to Leamington-spa instead (60 miles)

The first walk we did was from Coventry canal basin out to Hawkesbury
junction (Sutton Stop), about 5 miles. After a brief sojourn in "The
Greyhound" we decided to walk back to her house (about 4 miles), instead
of taking a bus. By the time we got there, after a total of 9 miles, I had
to plead with her to drive me home because I felt incapable of walking as
far as the bus stop!

I forget now the actual figure we raised but we decided to continue our
walks as a means of keeping fit and spending time together.

I assume you know the canal network round the Midlands fairly well?

No, I don't know the Midlands well at all, I just like canals. I live
between the Bridgewater and the Manchester Ship Canal. I like the
history and the engineering of them - fascinating stuff. I also live
near (enough) to Sankey Brook Nav and Stephenson's lovely old bridge!

The "Birmingham Canal Navigation" comprises over 100 miles of canals and
we hope to cover most of them. Details can be found on Waterscape.com but
you probably know that.

Salford junction on the canal system lies slap-bang underneath "Spaghetti
junction", J6 on the M6 motorway, and seen from canal level that is a
pretty amazing piece of enginnering too. Only from there, as you walk
along underneath it, do you appreciate the multi-level complexity of it
all - with a railway running through the middle of it too!

If you ever get the chance to get down to Birmingham and have the time,
you really need to walk "The Aston Ring" (about 5.5 miles) and when you
get to Salford junction walk a liitle way along the Tame valley canal
westwards and the Grand union Eastwards

--
Stuart Winsor

Only plain text for emails
http://www.asciiribbon.org

On Feb 7, 2:14*pm, Dave wrote:
On Tue, 07 Feb 2012 14:05:54 -0500, Robatoy

wrote:
If I had to pick just one, it would still be the old style Domino.
In my way of thinking, the XL would be hard to justify.

I've heard it's pretty good for door construction. A well built wooden
door goes for some serious money these days.

I can see that being a good application of that tool's strengths.
Solid wood doors, custom made to order are a VERY lucrative business
around here.
People dropping serious money all day long.

On 2/7/2012 1:05 PM, Robatoy wrote:
In ,
wrote:

On 2/7/2012 12:34 PM, Dave wrote:
On Tue, 07 Feb 2012 09:23:41 -0600, wrote:
Are you going to switch to the XL when it comes out?

That's been discussed frequently on the FOG. The general consensus is
that the XL will not replace the original version because of the great
size differences in the dominos biscuits themselves.


Shhh ... don't let Leon hear that. I was trying to set up a deal on his
old, POS, overused, wornout, soon to be obsolete, Domino!

I have been watching a few European videos about the XL and it would
appear to me that one wouldn't want to get rid of the 'old' Domino.
That XL would work well in boat building, outdoor furniture and other
big projects. If I had to pick just one, it would still be the old style
Domino.
In my way of thinking, the XL would be hard to justify. (Unless I had a
ton of work for it, of course.)

Other than that, what am I missing?

Doors, gates, large tables, pure ass tool envy.

--
www.eWoodShop.com
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
http://gplus.to/eWoodShop

On Feb 7, 2:12*pm, Dave wrote:
On Tue, 7 Feb 2012 11:09:44 -0800 (PST), Robatoy

I won't be lending this one out:
http://www.woodessence.com/Mirka-CER...r-P186C59.aspx

Admit it. You just like the Mirka Bulldog Max Performance Quick Dry
cap.

That Ceros makes the Festool Rotex feel like bad running chainsaw.

On 2/7/2012 1:20 PM, Robatoy wrote:
On Feb 7, 2:12 pm, wrote:
On Tue, 7 Feb 2012 11:09:44 -0800 (PST), Robatoy

I won't be lending this one out:
http://www.woodessence.com/Mirka-CER...r-P186C59.aspx

Admit it. You just like the Mirka Bulldog Max Performance Quick Dry
cap.

That Ceros makes the Festool Rotex feel like bad running chainsaw.

Yabbut it won't run on Monster Cable ...

--
www.eWoodShop.com
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
http://gplus.to/eWoodShop

On Feb 7, 2:19*pm, Swingman wrote:
On 2/7/2012 1:05 PM, Robatoy wrote:









In ,
* *wrote:

On 2/7/2012 12:34 PM, Dave wrote:
On Tue, 07 Feb 2012 09:23:41 -0600, * wrote:
Are you going to switch to the XL when it comes out?

That's been discussed frequently on the FOG. The general consensus is
that the XL will not replace the original version because of the great
size differences in the dominos biscuits themselves.

Shhh ... don't let Leon hear that. I was trying to set up a deal on his
old, POS, overused, wornout, soon to be obsolete, Domino!

I have been watching a few European videos about the XL and it would
appear to me that one wouldn't want to get rid of the 'old' Domino.
That XL would work well in boat building, outdoor furniture and other
big projects. If I had to pick just one, it would still be the old style
Domino.
In my way of thinking, the XL would be hard to justify. (Unless I had a
ton of work for it, of course.)

Other than that, what am I missing?

Doors, gates, large tables, pure ass tool envy.

--www.eWoodShop.com
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)http://gplus.to/eWoodShop

LMAO... PATE, eh? How does the PATE rating of the XL compare to the
MR? *ducking*

On Feb 7, 2:21*pm, Swingman wrote:
On 2/7/2012 1:20 PM, Robatoy wrote:

On Feb 7, 2:12 pm, *wrote:
On Tue, 7 Feb 2012 11:09:44 -0800 (PST), Robatoy

I won't be lending this one out:
http://www.woodessence.com/Mirka-CER...r-P186C59.aspx

Admit it. You just like the Mirka Bulldog Max Performance Quick Dry
cap.

That Ceros makes the Festool Rotex feel like bad running chainsaw.

Yabbut it won't run on Monster Cable ...

--www.eWoodShop.com
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)http://gplus.to/eWoodShop

Ceros 68 dB. Nice and quiet. A tool that cannot be described with
words alone. So small, so powerful, so modern. Absolutely state of the
art.