I am in the process of getting a few tools together for various projects
I would like to tackle. The first project (a bed) will require some
mortise and tenon joinery. For the types of pieces I need to work with,
it looks as though some shop-made jigs and a router will be the best
way to go. Future products will likely involve some raised panel doors.

I currently have a ~20 year old low-end Craftsman router with a 1/4"
collet and a few cheap bits. As I have begun looking at adding to my
collection of bits, I have come to the realization that it doesn't
take that many decent quality bits to add up to more than my router
is worth. My guess is that my next router would have at least a 1/2"
collet and ideally would have a 1/4" collet as well. That begs the
question - which bits is it worthwhile to buy with a 1/4" shank?

Question 1:

For my first project, I anticipate needing something along the lines
of a 1/4" spiral (mortises) and a 1/2" straight (tenons). Is it
reaonsable to assume that I should be able to get decent performance
out of a 1/4" shank on these bits?

Question 2:

When trying to do raisesd panel doors, does a 1/4" shank provide enough
stability to get decent results?

Question 3:

I assume that I will be looking for carbide-tipped bits. What brands
should I consider? I don't want to buy throw-away bits, but at the
same time, I am not doing production runs.

TIA,
Mike

"Mike Gerdts" wrote in message
Is it
reaonsable to assume that I should be able to get decent performance
out of a 1/4" shank on these bits?

No.


Question 2:

When trying to do raisesd panel doors, does a 1/4" shank provide enough
stability to get decent results?

NO ! !


Question 3:

I assume that I will be looking for carbide-tipped bits. What brands
should I consider? I don't want to buy throw-away bits, but at the
same time, I am not doing production runs.

Whiteside, Amana, Jesada, Freud, CMT, and a few others. check out
www.routerbits.com But a good router. Get some good information at
www.patwarner.com
Ed

http://pages.cthome.net/edhome

On Sun, 18 Jul 2004 20:23:25 GMT, Mike Gerdts
wrote:

I am in the process of getting a few tools together for various projects
I would like to tackle. The first project (a bed) will require some
mortise and tenon joinery. For the types of pieces I need to work with,
it looks as though some shop-made jigs and a router will be the best
way to go. Future products will likely involve some raised panel doors.

I currently have a ~20 year old low-end Craftsman router with a 1/4"
collet and a few cheap bits. As I have begun looking at adding to my
collection of bits, I have come to the realization that it doesn't
take that many decent quality bits to add up to more than my router
is worth. My guess is that my next router would have at least a 1/2"
collet and ideally would have a 1/4" collet as well. That begs the
question - which bits is it worthwhile to buy with a 1/4" shank?

bits with 3/8" and less cutter diameters





Question 1:

For my first project, I anticipate needing something along the lines
of a 1/4" spiral (mortises) and a 1/2" straight (tenons). Is it
reaonsable to assume that I should be able to get decent performance
out of a 1/4" shank on these bits?

for the 1/4" spiral, yeg but get solid carbide and treat them
carefully.

for the 1/2", use a 1/2" shank.



Question 2:

When trying to do raisesd panel doors, does a 1/4" shank provide enough
stability to get decent results?

NO.




Question 3:

I assume that I will be looking for carbide-tipped bits. What brands
should I consider? I don't want to buy throw-away bits, but at the
same time, I am not doing production runs.


http://tinyurl.com/5slse






TIA,
Mike

In article ,
Mike Gerdts wrote:
...
I currently have a ~20 year old low-end Craftsman router with a 1/4"
collet and a few cheap bits. As I have begun looking at adding to my
collection of bits, I have come to the realization that it doesn't
take that many decent quality bits to add up to more than my router
is worth. My guess is that my next router would have at least a 1/2"
collet and ideally would have a 1/4" collet as well. That begs the
question - which bits is it worthwhile to buy with a 1/4" shank?

Question 1:

For my first project, I anticipate needing something along the lines
of a 1/4" spiral (mortises) and a 1/2" straight (tenons). Is it
reaonsable to assume that I should be able to get decent performance
out of a 1/4" shank on these bits?

I'll disagree with the others - I think you should be able to get
"decent" (not superb) performance. A 1/2" straight with the common 1"
or so cutting edge will work decently with an underpowered 1/4" router.
Don't try to remove too much wood per pass.

Question 2:

When trying to do raisesd panel doors, does a 1/4" shank provide enough
stability to get decent results?

Here I agree with everyone else - this would be a bad idea. It also
can strain some of the 1/2" collet routers, and also require a speed
reduction capability.

...
--
--henry schaffer
hes _AT_ ncsu _DOT_ edu

I use Woodline.com
The panel raiser is the real bear. I'd investigate the vertical panel
raiser if I didn't have a shaper.
Wilson
"Mike Gerdts" wrote in message
...
I am in the process of getting a few tools together for various projects
I would like to tackle. The first project (a bed) will require some
mortise and tenon joinery. For the types of pieces I need to work with,
it looks as though some shop-made jigs and a router will be the best
way to go. Future products will likely involve some raised panel doors.

I currently have a ~20 year old low-end Craftsman router with a 1/4"
collet and a few cheap bits. As I have begun looking at adding to my
collection of bits, I have come to the realization that it doesn't
take that many decent quality bits to add up to more than my router
is worth. My guess is that my next router would have at least a 1/2"
collet and ideally would have a 1/4" collet as well. That begs the
question - which bits is it worthwhile to buy with a 1/4" shank?

Question 1:

For my first project, I anticipate needing something along the lines
of a 1/4" spiral (mortises) and a 1/2" straight (tenons). Is it
reaonsable to assume that I should be able to get decent performance
out of a 1/4" shank on these bits?

Question 2:

When trying to do raisesd panel doors, does a 1/4" shank provide enough
stability to get decent results?

Question 3:

I assume that I will be looking for carbide-tipped bits. What brands
should I consider? I don't want to buy throw-away bits, but at the
same time, I am not doing production runs.

TIA,
Mike

When your funds permit, buy a better router with 1/2" collet. I would no
get anything below 1.5 hp. You might consider a kit to allow you have both
a plunge and a fixed base router, and possibly variable speed. In my
opinion however, I think variable speed is more important for the higher
power routers pushing the large diameter raised panel bits. For certain
cuts and applications you will want to consider up to a 3 1/2 hp unit. I
have a Porter Cable 7539 for heavy plunge freehand work and it is just
great. I just recently cut one-pass dado's in 3/4" oak plywood with
multiple boards done at once. Performance was perfect and extremely smooth.
I also use the PC 690 model.

As far as bits, once you buy a good router, spend at least as much for your
bit collection. I would suggest Freud, Whiteside, or Amana for bits.

Philly45


"Mike Gerdts" wrote in message
...
I am in the process of getting a few tools together for various projects
I would like to tackle. The first project (a bed) will require some
mortise and tenon joinery. For the types of pieces I need to work with,
it looks as though some shop-made jigs and a router will be the best
way to go. Future products will likely involve some raised panel doors.

I currently have a ~20 year old low-end Craftsman router with a 1/4"
collet and a few cheap bits. As I have begun looking at adding to my
collection of bits, I have come to the realization that it doesn't
take that many decent quality bits to add up to more than my router
is worth. My guess is that my next router would have at least a 1/2"
collet and ideally would have a 1/4" collet as well. That begs the
question - which bits is it worthwhile to buy with a 1/4" shank?

Question 1:

For my first project, I anticipate needing something along the lines
of a 1/4" spiral (mortises) and a 1/2" straight (tenons). Is it
reaonsable to assume that I should be able to get decent performance
out of a 1/4" shank on these bits?

Question 2:

When trying to do raisesd panel doors, does a 1/4" shank provide enough
stability to get decent results?

Question 3:

I assume that I will be looking for carbide-tipped bits. What brands
should I consider? I don't want to buy throw-away bits, but at the
same time, I am not doing production runs.

TIA,
Mike

On Sun, 18 Jul 2004 20:23:25 GMT, Mike Gerdts
wrote:

snip
For my first project, I anticipate needing something along the lines
of a 1/4" spiral (mortises) and a 1/2" straight (tenons). Is it
reaonsable to assume that I should be able to get decent performance
out of a 1/4" shank on these bits?

Expect to make more shallow cuts with the 1/4" shank.

When trying to do raisesd panel doors, does a 1/4" shank provide enough
stability to get decent results?

No. Use a table saw or get 1/2" shank bits.

I assume that I will be looking for carbide-tipped bits. What brands
should I consider? I don't want to buy throw-away bits, but at the
same time, I am not doing production runs.

I have been using Whiteside. You can resharpen them, but for the most
part router bits are more easily replaced. Whatever you decide, avoid
Taiwan or China made bits. USA is very good.

Mike Gerdts wrote in
:

snipped

Opinions are inserted:

Question 1:

For my first project, I anticipate needing something along the lines
of a 1/4" spiral (mortises) and a 1/2" straight (tenons). Is it
reaonsable to assume that I should be able to get decent performance
out of a 1/4" shank on these bits?

As important as the collet/shank size is, for the mortise cutting, you will
need either an accurate adjustable fence on your plunge router, or a good
jig, with a template-following method which is accurate, safe and
repeatable. Determine whether your current router offers any of those
features, before proceding. Otherwise, find other means of safely cutting
the mortise and tenons, or find a new router.

Question 2:

When trying to do raisesd panel doors, does a 1/4" shank provide enough
stability to get decent results?

Few responsible manufacturers will even offer these bits. Product
liability is one good reason.

And NO ONE recommends doing these 'free hand'. At very least, you will
need a basic router table. Shop made is fine. Alternative means of
raising panels include, among others, using hand planes, or a table saw.


Question 3:

I assume that I will be looking for carbide-tipped bits. What brands
should I consider? I don't want to buy throw-away bits, but at the
same time, I am not doing production runs.

It's easy to get carried away buying bits. Go slowly.

But work safely. Have fun. Think through each operation carefully. Most
of all, when that little voice in your head says "I'm not comfortable with
this!", stop, and think it through again. And find someone to talk it over
with. Tools can bite you hard.

Patriarch

On Sun, 18 Jul 2004 20:23:25 GMT, Mike Gerdts
wrote:

|I am in the process of getting a few tools together for various projects
|I would like to tackle. The first project (a bed) will require some
|mortise and tenon joinery. For the types of pieces I need to work with,
|it looks as though some shop-made jigs and a router will be the best
|way to go. Future products will likely involve some raised panel doors.
|
|I currently have a ~20 year old low-end Craftsman router with a 1/4"
|collet and a few cheap bits. As I have begun looking at adding to my
|collection of bits, I have come to the realization that it doesn't
|take that many decent quality bits to add up to more than my router
|is worth. My guess is that my next router would have at least a 1/2"
|collet and ideally would have a 1/4" collet as well. That begs the
|question - which bits is it worthwhile to buy with a 1/4" shank?
|
|Question 1:
|
|For my first project, I anticipate needing something along the lines
|of a 1/4" spiral (mortises) and a 1/2" straight (tenons). Is it
|reaonsable to assume that I should be able to get decent performance
|out of a 1/4" shank on these bits?

Yes, if you limit yourself to light cuts and multiple passes.
|
|Question 2:
|
|When trying to do raisesd panel doors, does a 1/4" shank provide enough
|stability to get decent results?

No way. Frankly, I haven't done these with a router. I use the table
saw, which of course limits the profile. If I decide to get fancier,
I'll look into the vertical bits.

|
|Question 3:
|
|I assume that I will be looking for carbide-tipped bits. What brands
|should I consider? I don't want to buy throw-away bits, but at the
|same time, I am not doing production runs.

I've settled on Whiteside purchased from routerbits.com. These guys
are *fantastic*! (There are some companies out there that I'll never
do business with again...Rockler leaps to mind, but routerbits is a
joy to deal with) They ship express mail and it usually costs them
more than they charge me. Whiteside bits were rated very high in FWW
and I agree with their assessment.

I have a DeWalt 625 router, as well as an old Craftsman, similar to
yours. The '625 is very powerful, very heavy and a bit unwieldy, so
may be overkill much of the time. It does have dual collets, however.
In fact, I'm thinking about a lower power router to replace the
Craftsman that resides in the table.

But, may I offer a suggestion, which honesty requires me to admit I
haven't followed myself, but am considering.

If cutting mortises is your primary consideration, think about a
dedicated hollow chisel mortiser instead of the
router/bit/fixture/edge guide/guide bushing.....

Wes

Wes Stewart wrote:
On Sun, 18 Jul 2004 20:23:25 GMT, Mike Gerdts
wrote:
|Question 2:
|
|When trying to do raisesd panel doors, does a 1/4" shank provide enough
|stability to get decent results?

No way. Frankly, I haven't done these with a router. I use the table
saw, which of course limits the profile. If I decide to get fancier,
I'll look into the vertical bits.

I was rather surprised when I saw that raised door kits were available
in 1/4" shanks. That was way beyond my expectation for that small of
a piece of metal moving that fast. One other thing that I didn't take
into consideration is that the only way I get variable speed is by
repeatedly squeezing and releasing the trigger...

I have seen the table saw method described in books, but it seems as
though the edge of the blade would leave a rather sharp edge between
the bevel and the face of the panel. Does this not happen, or does
it normally get knocked down with sandpaper, a plane, etc.? My current
TS is rather lacking as well ($179 sears special ~5 years back). I'm
leaning toward the Ridgid TW3560. The Borg just dropped it to $549
and it has a $100 gift card rebate.

If cutting mortises is your primary consideration, think about a
dedicated hollow chisel mortiser instead of the
router/bit/fixture/edge guide/guide bushing.....

I was at first heading that direction, but I started looking at the
things I can do with a mortiser and the things that I can do with
a router or a drill press. Arguably, the mortiser is a bit more
limited in its use. In looking around the net (Amazon reviews, etc.)
it seems as though the one that is in my price range (Delta 14-651
@188 + ~44 for a bit) has rather mixed reviews.

Thanks for the feedback that everyone has given. To a large part
it has confirmed my suspicions.

Mike

Mike Gerdts wrote in
:

Wes Stewart wrote:
On Sun, 18 Jul 2004 20:23:25 GMT, Mike Gerdts
wrote:
|Question 2:
|
|When trying to do raisesd panel doors, does a 1/4" shank provide enough
|stability to get decent results?

No way. Frankly, I haven't done these with a router. I use the table
saw, which of course limits the profile. If I decide to get fancier,
I'll look into the vertical bits.

I was rather surprised when I saw that raised door kits were available
in 1/4" shanks. That was way beyond my expectation for that small of
a piece of metal moving that fast. One other thing that I didn't take
into consideration is that the only way I get variable speed is by
repeatedly squeezing and releasing the trigger...

I have seen the table saw method described in books, but it seems as
though the edge of the blade would leave a rather sharp edge between
the bevel and the face of the panel. Does this not happen, or does
it normally get knocked down with sandpaper, a plane, etc.? My current
TS is rather lacking as well ($179 sears special ~5 years back). I'm
leaning toward the Ridgid TW3560. The Borg just dropped it to $549
and it has a $100 gift card rebate.

If cutting mortises is your primary consideration, think about a
dedicated hollow chisel mortiser instead of the
router/bit/fixture/edge guide/guide bushing.....

I was at first heading that direction, but I started looking at the
things I can do with a mortiser and the things that I can do with
a router or a drill press. Arguably, the mortiser is a bit more
limited in its use. In looking around the net (Amazon reviews, etc.)
it seems as though the one that is in my price range (Delta 14-651
@188 + ~44 for a bit) has rather mixed reviews.

Thanks for the feedback that everyone has given. To a large part
it has confirmed my suspicions.

Mike


Mike, before you go too much futher, spend $40 on this book:

http://www.taunton.com/store/pages/070534.asp

Andy Rae's Complete Illustrated Guide to Furniture and Cabinet
Construction. It's cheaper than a good raised panel router bit, and shows
a whole bunch of safe alternative methods to doing lots of the things you
will be trying to do, if I read your intentions from your posts.

There are a few good tool recommendations in there, too.

Patriarch

On Mon, 19 Jul 2004 03:13:49 GMT, Mike Gerdts
wrote:

|Wes Stewart wrote:
| On Sun, 18 Jul 2004 20:23:25 GMT, Mike Gerdts
| wrote:
| |Question 2:
| |
| |When trying to do raisesd panel doors, does a 1/4" shank provide enough
| |stability to get decent results?
|
| No way. Frankly, I haven't done these with a router. I use the table
| saw, which of course limits the profile. If I decide to get fancier,
| I'll look into the vertical bits.
|
|I was rather surprised when I saw that raised door kits were available
|in 1/4" shanks. That was way beyond my expectation for that small of
|a piece of metal moving that fast. One other thing that I didn't take
|into consideration is that the only way I get variable speed is by
|repeatedly squeezing and releasing the trigger...

Ooops [g] You definitely want to slow these babies down. The look of
them scares the hell out of me so I can't say that I have personal
experience. Seems like a job for a shaper rather than a router to me.
|
|I have seen the table saw method described in books, but it seems as
|though the edge of the blade would leave a rather sharp edge between
|the bevel and the face of the panel. Does this not happen, or does
|it normally get knocked down with sandpaper, a plane, etc.?

Sure, the edges are going to be whatever the blade leaves behind. To
date, I use my panels with the raised side in (Shaker style), or down
in the case of drawer bottoms, so it doesn't much matter to me. You
could certainly ease the edges with a block plane, sandpaper, etc.
But for sure, you're not going to have any curved surfaces.

|My current
|TS is rather lacking as well ($179 sears special ~5 years back). I'm
|leaning toward the Ridgid TW3560. The Borg just dropped it to $549
|and it has a $100 gift card rebate.

Can't help you with this decision. I had a 20-year old Craftsman and
finally decided that I was going to get serious about this stuff and
justified, in my mind anyway, the purchase of a Unisaw.
|
| If cutting mortises is your primary consideration, think about a
| dedicated hollow chisel mortiser instead of the
| router/bit/fixture/edge guide/guide bushing.....
|
|I was at first heading that direction, but I started looking at the
|things I can do with a mortiser and the things that I can do with
|a router or a drill press. Arguably, the mortiser is a bit more
|limited in its use.

For sure. My last experience with one was in junior high shop class a
looong time ago. But if you were purchases tooling *only* to do
mortises then the router+bit+jig+mortising chisel... isn't cost
effective. Once you look at the other many uses for a router then
this bet is off.

|In looking around the net (Amazon reviews, etc.)
|it seems as though the one that is in my price range (Delta 14-651
|@188 + ~44 for a bit) has rather mixed reviews.

Unfortunately.


Wes