In article , Jack wrote:
On 12/4/2011 10:30 PM, Larry W wrote:

More likely any increase in accidents was due to lack of training. People
using ABS for the first time often thought there was a brake system
defect when they experienced the pedal pulsation the ABS causes when it
is active and let up on the brakes. And people who were trained to
pump the brakes in poor traction continued to do so with ABS, resulting
in reduction inn braking performance.

Until you have ABS go off on dry pavement as you attempt to slow down
normally to avoid ramming the stopped traffic in front of you, you ain't
experienced the wonders of ABS. I pulled the fuse on my GMC truck after
3 fixes under warranty and one out of warranty. These things reduce
braking power by 1/2 it seems.

--
Jack
Got Change: General Motors === Government Motors!
http://jbstein.com

Didn't we have this same conversation a few months ago? Your assertion is
possibly true for a defective system or perhaps one that has been poorly
designed, but there is no question that ABS results in better stopping
distances except for very skilled drivers, and for them only in straight
line stops on dry pavement.
--
Better to be stuck up in a tree than tied to one.

Larry Wasserman - Baltimore Maryland - lwasserm(a)sdf. lonestar.org

On 12/5/11 6:39 PM, Larry W wrote:
In ,
wrote:
On 12/4/11 9:30 PM, Larry W wrote:
And people who were trained to
pump the brakes in poor traction...

...were trained by fools.


I should have been more specific. I was talking about situations like
skidding on ice, where in pre-ABS days controlled pumping of brakes
was (and is) an effective method of regaining control of braking.


I guess I don't call that "pumping the brakes," but just letting off the
brakes if they lock up. I still have a friend who refuses to accept that
his late model car with ABS will stop faster in snow than he can by
"pumping" his brakes. Even after I, other friends, the dealer, and the
mechanic told him the chattering he felt in the pedal was simply the
evidence of the actual process used by the ABS, he still thinks it's a
malfunction and he will still "pump" his brakes.

Every winter, I introduce several people here in the south to the
apparently mysterious concept of down shifting with an automatic
transmission in slick weather.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 4 Dec 2011 18:27:12 -0800, "Lobby Dosser"
wrote:

"CW" wrote in message
news:WZadnZ91Mtd2vkHTnZ2dnUVZ_vudnZ2d@earthlink. com...


"Lee Michaels" wrote in message
b.com...


As some one who has had two major incidents where my brakes did fail, I
can
relate. I obsessively look for the emergency brake in each vehicle I
drive.
================================================== ==================
You'd like my Ranger. To apply the E-brake, you have to stick your left
knee in your ear to get your foot high enough.



I resemble that! Got in it one time after my wife had driven it and the
damn
e-brake was on. Took a while to figure what was wrong as it never occurred
to me that somebody could set the damn thing.

'Tis a foolish person who does not know the operation of and USES the
emergency brake on a daily basis.


On the Ranger, it is useless for most purposes. See sticking knee in ear ...

Somebody wrote:

'Tis a foolish person who does not know the operation of and USES
the
emergency brake on a daily basis.
-----------------------------
When I learned to drive back in Northern Ohio, you quickly learned to
NEVER use the emergency in the winter.

Trying to drive a vehicle with a pulled, frozen emergency brake cable
is a bear.

Lew

On Mon, 5 Dec 2011 20:35:11 -0800, "Lobby Dosser"
wrote:

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 4 Dec 2011 18:27:12 -0800, "Lobby Dosser"
wrote:

"CW" wrote in message
news:WZadnZ91Mtd2vkHTnZ2dnUVZ_vudnZ2d@earthlink .com...


"Lee Michaels" wrote in message
b.com...


As some one who has had two major incidents where my brakes did fail, I
can
relate. I obsessively look for the emergency brake in each vehicle I
drive.
================================================== ==================
You'd like my Ranger. To apply the E-brake, you have to stick your left
knee in your ear to get your foot high enough.



I resemble that! Got in it one time after my wife had driven it and the
damn
e-brake was on. Took a while to figure what was wrong as it never occurred
to me that somebody could set the damn thing.

'Tis a foolish person who does not know the operation of and USES the
emergency brake on a daily basis.


On the Ranger, it is useless for most purposes. See sticking knee in ear ...

Buy a car or truck that FITS YOU, silly person.
It ain't rocket science.

--
With every experience, you alone are painting your
own canvas, thought by thought, choice by choice.
-- Oprah Winfrey

"Lew Hodgett" wrote in message
b.com...
Somebody wrote:

'Tis a foolish person who does not know the operation of and USES the
emergency brake on a daily basis.
-----------------------------
When I learned to drive back in Northern Ohio, you quickly learned to
NEVER use the emergency in the winter.

Trying to drive a vehicle with a pulled, frozen emergency brake cable is a
bear.

Yeah, that was a Once ...

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 5 Dec 2011 20:35:11 -0800, "Lobby Dosser"
wrote:

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
. ..
On Sun, 4 Dec 2011 18:27:12 -0800, "Lobby Dosser"
wrote:

"CW" wrote in message
news:WZadnZ91Mtd2vkHTnZ2dnUVZ_vudnZ2d@earthlin k.com...


"Lee Michaels" wrote in message
b.com...


As some one who has had two major incidents where my brakes did fail,
I
can
relate. I obsessively look for the emergency brake in each vehicle I
drive.
================================================== ==================
You'd like my Ranger. To apply the E-brake, you have to stick your
left
knee in your ear to get your foot high enough.



I resemble that! Got in it one time after my wife had driven it and the
damn
e-brake was on. Took a while to figure what was wrong as it never
occurred
to me that somebody could set the damn thing.

'Tis a foolish person who does not know the operation of and USES the
emergency brake on a daily basis.


On the Ranger, it is useless for most purposes. See sticking knee in ear
...

Buy a car or truck that FITS YOU, silly person.
It ain't rocket science.

It does, other than that.

On Mon, 5 Dec 2011 20:56:08 -0800, "Lew Hodgett"
wrote:

Somebody wrote:

'Tis a foolish person who does not know the operation of and USES
the
emergency brake on a daily basis.
-----------------------------
When I learned to drive back in Northern Ohio, you quickly learned to
NEVER use the emergency in the winter.

Trying to drive a vehicle with a pulled, frozen emergency brake cable
is a bear.

Lew

BTDT. Good advice in wet weather in cold climates. If you don't use
the brake on a regular basis, it can stick at any time, even in the
heat.

On Mon, 5 Dec 2011 22:13:46 -0800, "Lobby Dosser"
wrote:

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 5 Dec 2011 20:35:11 -0800, "Lobby Dosser"
wrote:

On the Ranger, it is useless for most purposes. See sticking knee in ear
...

Buy a car or truck that FITS YOU, silly person.
It ain't rocket science.

It does, other than that.

So can't you simply open the door when you engage it? Or, if you're
that big, just reach over with the other foot.

Piece o' cake, duck soup, mon.

--
In reality, serendipity accounts for one percent of the blessings
we receive in life, work and love. The other 99 percent is due to
our efforts.
-- Peter McWilliams

On Mon, 5 Dec 2011 22:13:06 -0800, "Lobby Dosser"
wrote:

"Lew Hodgett" wrote in message
eb.com...
Somebody wrote:

'Tis a foolish person who does not know the operation of and USES the
emergency brake on a daily basis.
-----------------------------
When I learned to drive back in Northern Ohio, you quickly learned to
NEVER use the emergency in the winter.

Trying to drive a vehicle with a pulled, frozen emergency brake cable is a
bear.

Yeah, that was a Once ...

And then you guys learned that a pair of half inch wrenches (oops,
12mm in the Ranger's case, or 10mm cuz they're odd?) and ten minutes
time (including jacking) would have allowed the release of the brakes.

--
In reality, serendipity accounts for one percent of the blessings
we receive in life, work and love. The other 99 percent is due to
our efforts.
-- Peter McWilliams

On 12/5/2011 7:42 PM, Larry W wrote:
In , wrote:
On 12/4/2011 10:30 PM, Larry W wrote:

More likely any increase in accidents was due to lack of training. People
using ABS for the first time often thought there was a brake system
defect when they experienced the pedal pulsation the ABS causes when it
is active and let up on the brakes. And people who were trained to
pump the brakes in poor traction continued to do so with ABS, resulting
in reduction inn braking performance.

Until you have ABS go off on dry pavement as you attempt to slow down
normally to avoid ramming the stopped traffic in front of you, you ain't
experienced the wonders of ABS. I pulled the fuse on my GMC truck after
3 fixes under warranty and one out of warranty. These things reduce
braking power by 1/2 it seems.

--
Jack
Got Change: General Motors === Government Motors!
http://jbstein.com

Didn't we have this same conversation a few months ago?

Yes, nothing has changed.

Your assertion is possibly true for a defective system

Not possible, absolute.

or perhaps one that has been poorly designed,

They are designed to detect locked up wheels and when detected, pulsate
the breaks rapidly. This means the breaks are NOT on half the time, the
result is half the breaking power. This is OK if you are sliding, it is
not OK if you are simply stopping.

but there is no question that ABS results in better stopping
distances except for very skilled drivers, and for them only in straight
line stops on dry pavement.

If you ever had them go off at 45 mph on dry pavement when simply
performing a normal non-sliding stop, you would sing a different tune.
For me, They can keep their ABS crap. At best, they could have a switch
to turn them on in icy, snowy conditions. For me, and according to my
garage, many other GMC owners, the best thing is to just pull the fuse.

--
Jack
Add Life to your Days not Days to your Life.
http://jbstein.com