In article , " Rumple Stiltskin" wrote:

You think the old lady was shooting LRHP rounds? Seems a might far fetched.

The weapon shown in the photograph is certainly capable of firing them.

On May 1, 5:07*pm, "Nonny" wrote:
"Max" wrote in message

...

This is likely not the appropriate NG to be asking but I'm so
impressed with the knowledge here (G) that I thought I'd ask
anyway.
I want to replace all the exterior door locksets and deadbolts.
I've read a few "reviews" on some but what say you all?
I don't want to spend a fortune but like most of my purchases,
I'll spend whatever it takes to assure reasonable security.
("bumpproof", pick resistant, etc)
Any recommendations?

Max

Consider the Kwikset deadbolt with the numeric keypad. *You can
set it to automatically extend the deadbolt after some time
interval, it's now self-handing and there's an LED to let you know
the door's locked. *I have the older model, which is great, but
the newer one is smaller on the interior, easier to install and
works fine. *The key cylinder for Kwikset can also be mastered to
any suitable key by the installer with no need for a locksmith.

I also second the thought that if a burglar wants in, he'll get
in. *However, the goal is to slow them down and force them to make
as much noise as possible. *With enough hassle facing him, he'll
just go next door. *With that in mind, I install my deadbolts and
strike plates using long, hardened screws that go well into the
crip. *All you need to do is be careful to not overtighten them
and warp the casing.

I once thought of Schlage as being good- better than Kwikset- but
changed that misconception after installing 5 of their exterior
door sets and deadbolts on my home in Raleigh. *Within a couple
years, the brass had turned black. *I contacted Schlage and their
attitude was, "Tough Luck, you're out of warranty. *How about
buying our NEW coated brass sets, which will never darken?" *The
words, Push, Cram and Shove came to mind. Grin

--
Nonny
On most days,
it's just not worth
the effort of chewing
through the restraints..

"Consider the Kwikset deadbolt with the numeric keypad."

I just installed one of them a few weeks ago. So far, I love it.

I rarely used my front door in the last 20 years since I don't like to
carry anything more than my car key and fob. My work building and
office unlock with a card key - I just flash the wallet - and my
garage has it's own keypad.

Now that I have the push button lockset, I use the front door much
more regularly.

I had heard that you had to be more precise when installing these
locks, but I'm certainly no locksmith and had no problem. The entry
door I installed was pre-bored for the handle set, both door and jamb,
but only the door was pre-bored for the deadbolt. After adjusting the
handle set for the "one finger click" mentioned elsewhere in this
thread, I bored the jamb for the deadbolt and it operates as smooth as
can be.

One button locks the deadbolt on the way out, and a 5 digit code
unlocks. Sweet!

Having shot tens of thousands of rounds of .22 long riffle
hollow
point rounds, trust me, it would be no problem to sever the
spinal
column resulting in instaneous death with a single .22 LRHP
round.

Think of it as a baby dum dum.

Lew



You think the old lady was shooting LRHP rounds? Seems a might
far fetched.

If you think that a .22 is nothing to be afraid of, then please
shoot yourself in the head with one.


I don't know if they're commercially available now, but Remington
made SUBsonic 22LRHP rounds in the 90's at least. The snap of a
shot was greatly reduced. Of course, the energy level of the
bullet was also reduced, but for small game, squirrels in a bird
feeder or other critters/target practice, the rounds did just
fine. Even a pellet rifle can be lethal, given where the shot
hits and how long a time is allowed for a hit to become
incapacitating. Most squirrel shots I made with the cal .177
pellet rifle were instantly lethal and usually even exited the
skull. The trick was placing the shot well, not its lethality.

In home defense, there's a balancing act between a number of
factors. For instance, a cal .357 or .44 Mag round would have
tremendous hydraulic damage beyond the normal wound channel and
the result would be a lot of instant stopping power. However, the
round could also penetrate the door, walls or ceiling of a home
and take out a neighbor as well. Hollow points reduce this some,
but the best round would be the frangible bullets.

Another factor is how well you can aim and fire a big handgun.
Most people, regardless of their bravado flinch when pulling the
trigger. . . particularly inside. That flinch and make one heck
of a difference in the aim point.

Finally, a gun for self defense is like a camera. One time on a
cruise, we met a well known photographer who did a lot of wildlife
shots for National Geographic. I asked him what was his favorite
camera and he replied, "Any camera I have with me when I want a
camera." Guns are like that as well. Sure, a cal .454 loaded
with HP rounds would be the ideal pistol to stop some creep coming
in your window, but if you have it in the closet because it's too
big and heavy to have with you normally, then good luck. For most
burglars and home intruders, any shot, whether from a cal .22
derringer, little auto or a .32 would be a good deterrent, whether
just flashed, fired at the ceiling or at the intruder's center of
mass. It's enough to make him depart, which is the goal.


--
Nonny
On most days,
it's just not worth
the effort of chewing
through the restraints..

In article ,
Max wrote:

I Googled that and ended up with "Schlage Max". Looks promising.
Thanks.


Schlage is onwe of the better basic residential-grade lock mechansims.
There are several others at roughly comparable prices that are equally
good. Go to a professional locksmith shop and see what they sell for *BASIC*
locks.

Note: about all that 'higher security' (Note: *NOT* true "HIGH security")
locks like MEDCO buy you is that someone who gets their hands (temporarily)
on you keys will have a very difficult time copying it.

For basic business use the standard of reference for base-level security
is the Yale brand.

To _rationally_ go beyond anything of that level, one needs to spend
time considering, and 'hardening against attack' the -oter- possible
means of ingress. e.g. things like security bars on the windows, and
metal entry doors set in metal frames.

The single *biggest* thing you can do for home security is to _not_ use
a clock mechanism where the lock is integral to the door-knob. Regardless
of the quality oft he lock mechanism, those are defeatable with a simple
pipe wrench.

Comment: the _first_ step in any kind of security/defense plan is to
quantify the type of _threat_ you are attempting to protect against.
Doing that gives you a *LOT* of information with regard to establishing
what you need to do for protection.

Some basic threat classes:
1) the -property- is a 'target of opportunity' -- the bad guy is 'just
passing by' and decides to see if he can break in. It is generally
"sufficient" to be 'more difficult than nearby properties' to break
into.
2) -you- are a 'target of opportunity' -- someone gets ahold of (or copies)
your keys and decides to 'see what can be seen'. This is where
copy-resistant keys like MEDCO are very effective.
3) You, or your property, are selected 'with malice aforethought' as the
target of a WELL-PLANNED, carefully directed (and executed), attack.
Nothing short of a full-time professional security force will so much
as slow these kinds of attackers down.

In article unications, (Robert Bonomi) wrote:
[...]
The single *biggest* thing you can do for home security is to _not_ use
a clock mechanism where the lock is integral to the door-knob.

I respectfully disagree. IMHO, the single biggest thing you can do for home
security is to own a dog.

On Sun, 2 May 2010 14:38:41 -0700, the infamous "Lobby Dosser"
scrawled the following:

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
.. .


You think the old lady was shooting LRHP rounds? Seems a might far
fetched.

The cylinder on that pistola was long enough and that style round is
the self-defense default. Why does it seem farfetched to you?

A little old lady ...

A video's worth thousands of words:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fdDj0Syzrn8 with a MG.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k1PJThTQx4M
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lmcQB...eature=related AR-15 semi.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7z288zuTOkM with a Glock.
and .357s, .44 mags, etc.

Again, why does a LR cartridge seem farfetched?

--
Courage is the power to let go of the familiar.
-- Raymond Lindquist

"Doug Miller" wrote in message
...
In article unications,
(Robert Bonomi) wrote:
[...]
The single *biggest* thing you can do for home security is to _not_ use
a clock mechanism where the lock is integral to the door-knob.

I respectfully disagree. IMHO, the single biggest thing you can do for
home
security is to own a dog.


I have a dog. She's a watch dog. She would only "watch" if someone broke
in.
If I'm at home, the single biggest thing to deter a burglar is me and my
Smith & Wesson .40
And just to discourage someone from asking, "But would you use it if the
time came?" let me point out that I spent a year with the 1st. Cavalry
Division, 1950-'51. "From the Naktong to the Yalu".

Max (I need an "aggressive" dog)

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 2 May 2010 14:38:41 -0700, the infamous "Lobby Dosser"
scrawled the following:

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
. ..


You think the old lady was shooting LRHP rounds? Seems a might far
fetched.

The cylinder on that pistola was long enough and that style round is
the self-defense default. Why does it seem farfetched to you?

A little old lady ...

A video's worth thousands of words:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fdDj0Syzrn8 with a MG.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k1PJThTQx4M
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lmcQB...eature=related AR-15 semi.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7z288zuTOkM with a Glock.
and .357s, .44 mags, etc.

Again, why does a LR cartridge seem farfetched?


Why would anyone think that she had LRHP rounds. Not the most common round.
LR, maybe.

On Mon, 3 May 2010 00:09:44 -0700, the infamous "Lobby Dosser"
scrawled the following:

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 2 May 2010 14:38:41 -0700, the infamous "Lobby Dosser"
scrawled the following:

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...


You think the old lady was shooting LRHP rounds? Seems a might far
fetched.

The cylinder on that pistola was long enough and that style round is
the self-defense default. Why does it seem farfetched to you?

A little old lady ...

A video's worth thousands of words:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fdDj0Syzrn8 with a MG.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k1PJThTQx4M
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lmcQB...eature=related AR-15 semi.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7z288zuTOkM with a Glock.
and .357s, .44 mags, etc.

Again, why does a LR cartridge seem farfetched?


Why would anyone think that she had LRHP rounds. Not the most common round.
LR, maybe.

Hollowpoints are all I've ever bought, mostly for the explosive factor
on cans and bottles full of water (or recycled beer, way back.) I
don't recall seeing any roundpoints when I bought my last brick of 'em
at BiMart. Anyone advising her would say "get a bigger gun if you're
going to defend yourself with it." And they would advise either
frangibles or hollow points for any caliber for self-defense use.

--
Courage is the power to let go of the familiar.
-- Raymond Lindquist

The best I found was Abloy.
But it is very commercial looking.




"Max" wrote in message
...
This is likely not the appropriate NG to be asking but I'm so impressed
with the knowledge here (G) that I thought I'd ask anyway.
I want to replace all the exterior door locksets and deadbolts.
I've read a few "reviews" on some but what say you all?
I don't want to spend a fortune but like most of my purchases, I'll spend
whatever it takes to assure reasonable security. ("bumpproof", pick
resistant, etc)
Any recommendations?

Max

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 3 May 2010 00:09:44 -0700, the infamous "Lobby Dosser"
scrawled the following:

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
. ..
On Sun, 2 May 2010 14:38:41 -0700, the infamous "Lobby Dosser"
scrawled the following:

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
m...


You think the old lady was shooting LRHP rounds? Seems a might far
fetched.

The cylinder on that pistola was long enough and that style round is
the self-defense default. Why does it seem farfetched to you?

A little old lady ...

A video's worth thousands of words:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fdDj0Syzrn8 with a MG.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k1PJThTQx4M
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lmcQB...eature=related AR-15 semi.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7z288zuTOkM with a Glock.
and .357s, .44 mags, etc.

Again, why does a LR cartridge seem farfetched?


Why would anyone think that she had LRHP rounds. Not the most common
round.
LR, maybe.

Hollowpoints are all I've ever bought, mostly for the explosive factor
on cans and bottles full of water (or recycled beer, way back.) I
don't recall seeing any roundpoints when I bought my last brick of 'em
at BiMart. Anyone advising her would say "get a bigger gun if you're
going to defend yourself with it." And they would advise either
frangibles or hollow points for any caliber for self-defense use.

And get the training ...

On May 1, 10:58*am, Morris Dovey wrote:
On 5/1/2010 9:35 AM, Douglas Johnson wrote:

*wrote:

"Dave *wrote

Locks are to keep your friends out. No lock is pick or bump proof.

"Resistant"?

Your typical residental burgler couldn't pick a lock to save their life.. *Think
"kick resistant". *You want a good long deadbolt that sets into a strong plate
with screws that go deep into the framing. *Don't forget good long screws in the
hinges. *Even then, you are just slowing them down a few seconds. *-- Doug

Speaking of "kick resistant", you might get a kick out of this recent
story...

* *http://www.kcci.com/news/23208133/detail.html

"And the police reloaded it for me"

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USAhttp://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/

I love a story with a happy ending.

On Apr 30, 5:51*pm, "Max" wrote:
This is likely not the appropriate NG to be asking but I'm so impressed with
the knowledge here (G) that I thought I'd ask anyway.
I want to replace all the exterior door locksets and deadbolts.
I've read a few "reviews" on some but what say you all?
I don't want to spend a fortune but like most of my purchases, I'll spend
whatever it takes to assure reasonable security. ("bumpproof", pick
resistant, etc)
Any recommendations?

Max

6 normal dead bolts. In a row. Lock 3. If they are pickers, they'll be
unlocking the locked 3 and locking the unlocked ones....that could
take a while.

On 5/3/2010 1:34 PM, Robatoy wrote:

6 normal dead bolts. In a row. Lock 3. If they are pickers, they'll be
unlocking the locked 3 and locking the unlocked ones....that could
take a while.

ROTFLMAO ...

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlC@ (the obvious)

"Robert Bonomi" wrote in message
communications...
In article ,
Max wrote:

I Googled that and ended up with "Schlage Max". Looks
promising.
Thanks.


Schlage is onwe of the better basic residential-grade lock
mechansims.
There are several others at roughly comparable prices that are
equally
good. Go to a professional locksmith shop and see what they sell
for *BASIC*
locks.

Note: about all that 'higher security' (Note: *NOT* true "HIGH
security")
locks like MEDCO buy you is that someone who gets their hands
(temporarily)
on you keys will have a very difficult time copying it.

For basic business use the standard of reference for base-level
security
is the Yale brand.

To _rationally_ go beyond anything of that level, one needs to
spend
time considering, and 'hardening against attack' the -oter-
possible
means of ingress. e.g. things like security bars on the
windows, and
metal entry doors set in metal frames.

The single *biggest* thing you can do for home security is to
_not_ use
a clock mechanism where the lock is integral to the door-knob.
Regardless
of the quality oft he lock mechanism, those are defeatable with
a simple
pipe wrench.

Comment: the _first_ step in any kind of security/defense plan
is to
quantify the type of _threat_ you are attempting to protect
against.
Doing that gives you a *LOT* of information with regard to
establishing
what you need to do for protection.

Some basic threat classes:
1) the -property- is a 'target of opportunity' -- the bad guy
is 'just
passing by' and decides to see if he can break in. It is
generally
"sufficient" to be 'more difficult than nearby properties'
to break
into.
2) -you- are a 'target of opportunity' -- someone gets ahold of
(or copies)
your keys and decides to 'see what can be seen'. This is
where
copy-resistant keys like MEDCO are very effective.
3) You, or your property, are selected 'with malice
aforethought' as the
target of a WELL-PLANNED, carefully directed (and executed),
attack.
Nothing short of a full-time professional security force
will so much
as slow these kinds of attackers down.



Where we live, most home burglaries are done as targets of
opportunity. In even a residential neighborhood, a home gets
rented out and soon fills with "economically deprived" souls.
Soon, it's time to make a rent payment, buy some drugs, pay the
dealer or get gasoline for the pickup, and a couple of them will
locate an apparently empty house, toss a rock through the patio
door and grab what they can easily carry away and readily sell.
The sales take place at flea markets, pawn shops and the
improvised stores found in the more traditional neighborhoods for
these poor, suffering souls.

Most of the burglaries take place in homes where the home is
viewable from a public area- which is how it's selected. One
exception is the day laborers used by landscape maintenance crews,
painters and other contractors visiting a neighborhood.
Gated communities have a slight advantage, since even if a car
follows you in thorough the gate, it's something a neighbor might
see. Guard gated communities have a real advantage there, along
with registration of all visitors and videotapes of the people
inside the autos. Nothing is perfect. For instance, we have
friends in a very nice home. To get there, we have to be admitted
by a guard via the guard gate and the site is videotaped from
different angles. We then drive through the subdivision and are
faced with an electronic second gate. There, we either have to
enter the code or call the guard house to have the gate opened.
Once inside that subcompound, we reach our friend's home.

Did I mention that the home backs up to a public, yes PUBLIC golf
courses? Yup, we sit in our friend's back yard, by their pool,
and look over the 3' wrought iron fence and speak to the golfers
waiting to tee off on the 8th hole. How's that for security?
grin

Homes in the interior of a subdivision are far less likely to be
hit than a home adjoining a fence between it and a street,
sidewalk, park or other accessible area. For a house to have a
lock picked or even the door forced would be exceptional. Here,
it's almost always a smash, grab and run situation. Usually, the
burglars are too high on drugs or just too plain stupid to realize
that many homeowners now have cameras. However, the physical
presence of a camera or "Monitored Alarm" stickers on windows and
doors probably help them decide to go see your neighbor instead of
you.

We have also had a rash of home invasions in town. There, the
intruders have almost universally picked homes with opened doors
that were visible from driving down a street.

Personally, I follow the rule of keeping exterior doors locked and
window locked, except for ventilation. We have sun screens, so
opened windows are not visible. . . particularly at night.
However, I don't go nuts and put on $400 locksets to the front
door, since I know that any patio door or window would be the
entryway of choice for a thief of opportunity. One possibility
that some might consider is the heavy (tint/reflectivity optional)
window films that can be applied to glass. They're just a heavier
duty version of the normal window films, but WILL stop a guy using
a rock or hammer to open the glass door. Nothing's perfect, but
the guy's not going to want to stand there pounding on the door.

In our case, we have the typical alarm system, including IR
detectors, door and window switches and fire. I personally
installed several 140dBa sirens INSIDE the house. One is near
electronic equipment, another in the garage where I have my tools
and the third by our master BR and my office. Trust me, when
those suckers sound off, nobody hangs around. They won't stop an
entry, but will sure make it miserable for the burglar to go
rummaging around.

--
Nonny
On most days,
it’s just not worth
the effort of chewing
through the restraints..

On May 3, 1:44*pm, "Nonny" wrote:
"Robert Bonomi" wrote in message

snip

Most of the burglaries take place in homes where the home is
viewable from a public area- which is how it's selected. *One
exception is the day laborers used by landscape maintenance crews,
painters and other contractors visiting a neighborhood.
Gated communities have a slight advantage, since even if a car
follows you in thorough the gate, it's something a neighbor might
see. *Guard gated communities have a real advantage there, along
with registration of all visitors and videotapes of the people
inside the autos. *Nothing is perfect. *For instance, we have
friends in a very nice home. *To get there, we have to be admitted
by a guard via the guard gate and the site is videotaped from
different angles. *We then drive through the subdivision and are
faced with an electronic second gate. *There, we either have to
enter the code or call the guard house to have the gate opened.
Once inside that subcompound, we reach our friend's home.

Did I mention that the home backs up to a public, yes PUBLIC golf
courses? *Yup, we sit in our friend's back yard, by their pool,
and look over the 3' wrought iron fence and speak to the golfers
waiting to tee off on the 8th hole. *How's that for security?

Are you insinuating that golfers are dishonest?

"Robatoy" wrote in message
...
On Apr 30, 5:51 pm, "Max" wrote:
This is likely not the appropriate NG to be asking but I'm so impressed
with
the knowledge here (G) that I thought I'd ask anyway.
I want to replace all the exterior door locksets and deadbolts.
I've read a few "reviews" on some but what say you all?
I don't want to spend a fortune but like most of my purchases, I'll spend
whatever it takes to assure reasonable security. ("bumpproof", pick
resistant, etc)
Any recommendations?

Max

6 normal dead bolts. In a row. Lock 3. If they are pickers, they'll be
unlocking the locked 3 and locking the unlocked ones....that could
take a while.


I'm wondering whether a "set-gun" might be a solution.

Max (if they just weren't illegal)

wrote in message
...
On May 3, 1:44 pm, "Nonny" wrote:
"Robert Bonomi" wrote in message

snip

Most of the burglaries take place in homes where the home is
viewable from a public area- which is how it's selected. One
exception is the day laborers used by landscape maintenance crews,
painters and other contractors visiting a neighborhood.
Gated communities have a slight advantage, since even if a car
follows you in thorough the gate, it's something a neighbor might
see. Guard gated communities have a real advantage there, along
with registration of all visitors and videotapes of the people
inside the autos. Nothing is perfect. For instance, we have
friends in a very nice home. To get there, we have to be admitted
by a guard via the guard gate and the site is videotaped from
different angles. We then drive through the subdivision and are
faced with an electronic second gate. There, we either have to
enter the code or call the guard house to have the gate opened.
Once inside that subcompound, we reach our friend's home.

Did I mention that the home backs up to a public, yes PUBLIC golf
courses? Yup, we sit in our friend's back yard, by their pool,
and look over the 3' wrought iron fence and speak to the golfers
waiting to tee off on the 8th hole. How's that for security?

Are you insinuating that golfers are dishonest?


Bwa hahahahaha. Is there any other kind?

On Mon, 3 May 2010 08:42:02 -0700, "Lobby Dosser"
wrote the following:

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
.. .

Hollowpoints are all I've ever bought, mostly for the explosive factor
on cans and bottles full of water (or recycled beer, way back.) I
don't recall seeing any roundpoints when I bought my last brick of 'em
at BiMart. Anyone advising her would say "get a bigger gun if you're
going to defend yourself with it." And they would advise either
frangibles or hollow points for any caliber for self-defense use.

And get the training ...

But of course, and the practice, before it's needed.

--
Courage is the power to let go of the familiar.
-- Raymond Lindquist

On Mon, 03 May 2010 13:37:24 -0500, Swingman wrote
the following:

On 5/3/2010 1:34 PM, Robatoy wrote:

6 normal dead bolts. In a row. Lock 3. If they are pickers, they'll be
unlocking the locked 3 and locking the unlocked ones....that could
take a while.

ROTFLMAO ...

Isn't that what Whoopi Goldberg did in "Burglar" last century?

--
Courage is the power to let go of the familiar.
-- Raymond Lindquist