I'm working on a project, and have determined that both of my framing
squares aren't square. I have a precison machinists square I checked them
against, and the 24" one is close, but the 12" one is way off. As a guess,
the 24" one is out of square by more than 1/32" of an inch, and the 12" is
off by half again or twice that much.

I need something bigger than the machinists square for woodworking, but I
certainly can't rely on the old fashion stamped steel ones from Home
Despot.

Suggestions?

Thanks!

Doug White

"Doug White" wrote in message
.. .
I'm working on a project, and have determined that both of my framing
squares aren't square. I have a precison machinists square I checked them
against, and the 24" one is close, but the 12" one is way off. As a
guess,
the 24" one is out of square by more than 1/32" of an inch, and the 12" is
off by half again or twice that much.

I need something bigger than the machinists square for woodworking, but I
certainly can't rely on the old fashion stamped steel ones from Home
Despot.

Suggestions?

Tune up what you have...

This site gives the basic directions.

http://zo-d.com/stuff/how-do-i/how-t...ng-square.html

John

On 3/14/2010 10:12 AM, Doug White wrote:
I'm working on a project, and have determined that both of my framing
squares aren't square. I have a precison machinists square I checked them
against, and the 24" one is close, but the 12" one is way off. As a guess,
the 24" one is out of square by more than 1/32" of an inch, and the 12" is
off by half again or twice that much.

I need something bigger than the machinists square for woodworking, but I
certainly can't rely on the old fashion stamped steel ones from Home
Despot.

Suggestions?

I bought a Lee Valley's stainless carpenter's square a couple of years
back and was delighted to discover that (as far as I've been able to
determine) it's dead-on square. I use it to square up my CNC router.

Almost as good: there's not a speck of rust on it.

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/

Doug White wrote:
I'm working on a project, and have determined that both of my framing
squares aren't square. I have a precison machinists square I checked
them against, and the 24" one is close, but the 12" one is way off.
As a guess, the 24" one is out of square by more than 1/32" of an
inch, and the 12" is off by half again or twice that much.

I need something bigger than the machinists square for woodworking,
but I certainly can't rely on the old fashion stamped steel ones from
Home Despot.

Suggestions?

Get this one from Harbor Freight;
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...temnumber=9541

It may not be any more square than the ones you've got, but at least it's
readable!

The stamped steel squares you mentioned are difficult to read after a few
years. This one has a yellow enameled surface with brown numbers on its
face.

The HF model even has a set of numbers called "centimeters" which, I think,
have something to do with the quantity of different fruits that will fit in
a standard peck.

Doug White wrote:
I'm working on a project, and have determined that both of my framing
squares aren't square. I have a precison machinists square I checked them
against, and the 24" one is close, but the 12" one is way off. As a guess,
the 24" one is out of square by more than 1/32" of an inch, and the 12" is
off by half again or twice that much.

I need something bigger than the machinists square for woodworking, but I
certainly can't rely on the old fashion stamped steel ones from Home
Despot.

Suggestions?

Thanks!

Doug White

L.S. Starrett is know for their precision and surprisingly there framing
squares don't seem to be expensive. "Toolfetch" show the L.S. Starrett
36129 Fs-24 24"X 16" Steel Framing Square to be about $13.00.

http://www.toolfetch.com/Category/Me.../681-36129.htm


http://www.starrett.com/download/361_cat_70_p39_40.pdf

--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA

On 3/14/2010 11:12 AM, Doug White wrote:
I'm working on a project, and have determined that both of my framing
squares aren't square. I have a precison machinists square I checked them
against, and the 24" one is close, but the 12" one is way off. As a guess,
the 24" one is out of square by more than 1/32" of an inch, and the 12" is
off by half again or twice that much.

I need something bigger than the machinists square for woodworking, but I
certainly can't rely on the old fashion stamped steel ones from Home
Despot.

Suggestions?

Thanks!

Doug White
All of my square duties are do with a small square, I don't build
buildings.

I use a solid triangle type square for all of the adjustments around the
shop and on the shop tools. It has never failed me, and I use it all of
the time. It also has been dropped more that I would like to admit.
Based on adjustments made with this square I have made hundreds of
picture frames with perfect mitered corners. (Maybe not all "perfect"
but literally hundreds ;-) )

On Sun, 14 Mar 2010 15:12:39 GMT, Doug White
wrote:

I'm working on a project, and have determined that both of my framing
squares aren't square. I have a precison machinists square I checked them
against, and the 24" one is close, but the 12" one is way off. As a guess,
the 24" one is out of square by more than 1/32" of an inch, and the 12" is
off by half again or twice that much.

I need something bigger than the machinists square for woodworking, but I
certainly can't rely on the old fashion stamped steel ones from Home
Despot.

a squared + b squared = c squared?
If you need something bigger than a 24" square, but not very often,
then Pythagoras can help you out.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pythagorean_theorem

On 3/14/10 10:58 AM, HeyBub wrote:
Doug White wrote:
Get this one from Harbor Freight;
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...temnumber=9541


I'm usually the first guy to defend ol' HF, but I have yet to find an
accurate analog measuring device in their store. One day, I went in
looking for a square and tested out a bunch of that exact model and none
were square, and a good many of them had inaccurate scales. They
commonly did not start at "zero" at the corners.

I would go beyond the normal HF motto of buyer beware and say, just
avoid them for something like this. If not, make sure you have a way of
checking it for square and accuracy of the scale.



--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

"John Grossbohlin" wrote in
m:

http://zo-d.com/stuff/how-do-i/how-t...framing-square
.html

I've heard of this approach, and the large square is probably close enough
to give it a shot. I suspect I'd have to beat the hell out of the smaller
square to get is closr to right.

I'll report back on how it goes. I can probably use my machinists square
to get started. It's not clear how precisely I can draw and check the
lines, but over the long leg, I should be able to get pretty close. I may
also start by stoning out any nicks & dings, and then I can use a precision
straight edge for the "base" of the alignment test.

Doug White

"Doug White" wrote in message
...
"John Grossbohlin" wrote in
m:

http://zo-d.com/stuff/how-do-i/how-t...framing-square
.html

I've heard of this approach, and the large square is probably close enough
to give it a shot. I suspect I'd have to beat the hell out of the smaller
square to get is closr to right.

I'll report back on how it goes. I can probably use my machinists square
to get started. It's not clear how precisely I can draw and check the
lines, but over the long leg, I should be able to get pretty close. I may
also start by stoning out any nicks & dings, and then I can use a
precision
straight edge for the "base" of the alignment test.

Doug White

The nicks and dings are a clue that they've probably been dropped a time or
two... generally the root cause of the problem. If you do the math you'll
find that a small movement at the corner will make pretty significant
changes at the ends of the legs--the corrections will most likely be in
minutes not degrees. As such you may not have as big a beating to undertake
as it might seem at first!

John

On 3/14/2010 12:32 PM, Doug White wrote:

I've heard of this approach, and the large square is probably close enough
to give it a shot. I suspect I'd have to beat the hell out of the smaller
square to get is closr to right.

It may help if you mention what it is that you are making that takes
that kind of "squaring" precision out of a framing square that is
normally good for the proverbial "1/8th in 8" on a good day (not
including pitch, rise and run, rafter layouts, etc, ot course.)?

When a competent carpenter/framer needs more of such precision over a
distance than inherent in a "framing square", he uses math.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/22/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)

Doug White wrote:

I'm working on a project, and have determined that both of my framing
squares aren't square. I have a precison machinists square I checked
them
against, and the 24" one is close, but the 12" one is way off. As a
guess, the 24" one is out of square by more than 1/32" of an inch, and
the
12" is off by half again or twice that much.

I need something bigger than the machinists square for woodworking, but
I
certainly can't rely on the old fashion stamped steel ones from Home
Despot.

Suggestions?

Thanks!

Doug White
You can fix the one you have by pinging it in the right areas. See google
for easy to follow directions.
--
You can lead them to LINUX
but you can't make them THINK !
Mandriva 2010 using KDE 4.3
Website: www.rentmyhusband.biz

Swingman wrote in
:

On 3/14/2010 12:32 PM, Doug White wrote:

I've heard of this approach, and the large square is probably close
enough to give it a shot. I suspect I'd have to beat the hell out of
the smaller square to get is closr to right.

It may help if you mention what it is that you are making that takes
that kind of "squaring" precision out of a framing square that is
normally good for the proverbial "1/8th in 8" on a good day (not
including pitch, rise and run, rafter layouts, etc, ot course.)?

When a competent carpenter/framer needs more of such precision over a
distance than inherent in a "framing square", he uses math.

This is for cabinet making, of a sort. I have an aluminum frame that I
am fitting shelves to, and the frame is eminently square. It's made from
80/20 structural aluminum (http://www.8020.net/).

My ShopSmith table saw is a wonderful tool, but the miter gauge is the
weakest part of the system. Cutting 14" wide shelves resulted in errors
close to a 16th of an inch. (Yes, I know, I should make a sled). I
wasn't surprised, and had planned on straightening things up with my
router. I checked the shelves initially with a general purpose
combination square. To set up a guide for the router, I grabbed my
smaller framing square, which showed that the shelves weren't nearly as
out of whack as I first measured. That's when I discovered that no two
of the four wood working squares I tried agreed. I went to my machine
shop and got out my "serious square" and found errors of one sort or
another in all of them. The worst is the smaller framing square.

Doug White

On Sun, 14 Mar 2010 15:40:14 -0500, "dadiOH"
wrote:

Doug White wrote:
I'm working on a project, and have determined that both of my framing
squares aren't square. I have a precison machinists square I checked
them against, and the 24" one is close, but the 12" one is way off.
As a guess, the 24" one is out of square by more than 1/32" of an
inch, and the 12" is off by half again or twice that much.

I need something bigger than the machinists square for woodworking,
but I certainly can't rely on the old fashion stamped steel ones from
Home Despot.

Suggestions?

Adjust it...center punch at the angle. Where you punch on line between
inside and outside corners determines which way it bends.
Generally a simple ball pien hammer does the job and does not leave
the rough "divots" on the surface of the square.. Just pien it on an
anvil. Carefully - you don't want to go TOO far!!

On 3/14/10 4:08 PM, wrote:
Generally a simple ball pien hammer does the job and does not leave
the rough "divots" on the surface of the square.. Just pien it on an
anvil. Carefully - you don't want to go TOO far!!

I'm going to try that, next time, instead of a punch. Good idea.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

-MIKE- wrote:
On 3/14/10 10:58 AM, HeyBub wrote:
Doug White wrote:
Get this one from Harbor Freight;
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...temnumber=9541


I'm usually the first guy to defend ol' HF, but I have yet to find an
accurate analog measuring device in their store. One day, I went in
looking for a square and tested out a bunch of that exact model and
none were square, and a good many of them had inaccurate scales. They
commonly did not start at "zero" at the corners.

I would go beyond the normal HF motto of buyer beware and say, just
avoid them for something like this. If not, make sure you have a way
of checking it for square and accuracy of the scale.

Good points. I recall, however, from teaching Physics labs, that one should
avoid using the end of a ruler -such as a yard stick (actually, we used
"meter" sticks) - as a starting point. Start at the 1" mark and subtract one
inch from the result to get the true distance. The reason is that the ends
of measuring devices get boogered up and distort the beginning point.

For building such things as dog houses, it probably doesn't amount to a
significant problem. Obtaining the measurement for a piece of glass,
however, could be a WTF? moment..

Upscale wrote:
On Sun, 14 Mar 2010 15:12:39 GMT, Doug White
wrote:

I'm working on a project, and have determined that both of my framing
squares aren't square. I have a precison machinists square I
checked them against, and the 24" one is close, but the 12" one is
way off. As a guess, the 24" one is out of square by more than
1/32" of an inch, and the 12" is off by half again or twice that
much.

I need something bigger than the machinists square for woodworking,
but I certainly can't rely on the old fashion stamped steel ones
from Home Despot.

a squared + b squared = c squared?
If you need something bigger than a 24" square, but not very often,
then Pythagoras can help you out.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pythagorean_theorem

Even easier is a 3x4x5 triangle, or multiples thereof.

On Sun, 14 Mar 2010 17:21:34 -0500, "HeyBub"
wrote:

-MIKE- wrote:
On 3/14/10 10:58 AM, HeyBub wrote:
Doug White wrote:
Get this one from Harbor Freight;
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...temnumber=9541


I'm usually the first guy to defend ol' HF, but I have yet to find an
accurate analog measuring device in their store. One day, I went in
looking for a square and tested out a bunch of that exact model and
none were square, and a good many of them had inaccurate scales. They
commonly did not start at "zero" at the corners.

I would go beyond the normal HF motto of buyer beware and say, just
avoid them for something like this. If not, make sure you have a way
of checking it for square and accuracy of the scale.

Good points. I recall, however, from teaching Physics labs, that one should
avoid using the end of a ruler -such as a yard stick (actually, we used
"meter" sticks) - as a starting point. Start at the 1" mark and subtract one
inch from the result to get the true distance. The reason is that the ends
of measuring devices get boogered up and distort the beginning point.

....this goes for measuring tapes, too (maybe "especially" 'cause they
get boogered regularly)...one of the first things I learned as a
carpenter; "...burn an inch."

cg

For building such things as dog houses, it probably doesn't amount to a
significant problem. Obtaining the measurement for a piece of glass,
however, could be a WTF? moment..

On 3/14/10 5:21 PM, HeyBub wrote:
Good points. I recall, however, from teaching Physics labs, that one should
avoid using the end of a ruler -such as a yard stick (actually, we used
"meter" sticks) - as a starting point. Start at the 1" mark and subtract one
inch from the result to get the true distance. The reason is that the ends
of measuring devices get boogered up and distort the beginning point.


Yeah, I think we all have learned to start at the one, at some point in
our experience.
But since the topic is "precision" framing square. I know that's an
oxymoron. -)

In any case, I like to have at least one nice L square and one nice rule
(from a combination square) that are each sanded "true zero" on each end
and at the corners.

I often find myself with a square and a file, taking of the blister from
a ding at the corner where it's been dropped on the concrete floor.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

"Doug White" wrote in message
...
"John Grossbohlin" wrote in
m:

http://zo-d.com/stuff/how-do-i/how-t...framing-square
.html

I've heard of this approach, and the large square is probably close enough
to give it a shot. I suspect I'd have to beat the hell out of the smaller
square to get is closr to right.

I'll report back on how it goes. I can probably use my machinists square
to get started. It's not clear how precisely I can draw and check the
lines, but over the long leg, I should be able to get pretty close. I may
also start by stoning out any nicks & dings, and then I can use a
precision
straight edge for the "base" of the alignment test.

Doug White

Been there. Done that. It works. Warren

As I recall, a framing saw is calibrated square and a center punch is
used to dent at the inside or outside of the V pint between the arms.

At the inside it spreads. Outside it pinches.

Martin

-MIKE- wrote:
On 3/14/10 5:21 PM, HeyBub wrote:
Good points. I recall, however, from teaching Physics labs, that one
should
avoid using the end of a ruler -such as a yard stick (actually, we used
"meter" sticks) - as a starting point. Start at the 1" mark and
subtract one
inch from the result to get the true distance. The reason is that the
ends
of measuring devices get boogered up and distort the beginning point.


Yeah, I think we all have learned to start at the one, at some point in
our experience.
But since the topic is "precision" framing square. I know that's an
oxymoron. -)

In any case, I like to have at least one nice L square and one nice rule
(from a combination square) that are each sanded "true zero" on each end
and at the corners.

I often find myself with a square and a file, taking of the blister from
a ding at the corner where it's been dropped on the concrete floor.