I realize this isn't exactly a woodworking question, but when I asked
about 220 V wiring for my shed in an earlier thread a lot of
electricians came out of the 'woodwork'.

So. I now have 220 V in my shed for my Walker Turner table saw. I
noticed that the plug from the saw only has two wires. The ground is
not connected. My shed has a ground stake.
Should I run the ground wire to the saw? It certainly has a whooping
iron chasis.
Should I not do this?

(For those of you who helped me the last time, I finally decided to
get an electrician to wire it. He took the 220V
line from my 30 amp circuit for the house drier (I have a gas drier,
so I don't use it), ran #10 wires out to a 30 amp
breaker panel in the shed, split out two 110V circuits and a 20 amp
220v and put in a ground stake. This took him
6 hours. It would have taken me about 2 months).


thanks,
b

On Mon, 07 Dec 2009 23:28:28 -0800, sibosop wrote:

I realize this isn't exactly a woodworking question, but when I asked
about 220 V wiring for my shed in an earlier thread a lot of
electricians came out of the 'woodwork'.

So. I now have 220 V in my shed for my Walker Turner table saw. I
noticed that the plug from the saw only has two wires. The ground is not
connected. My shed has a ground stake. Should I run the ground wire to
the saw? It certainly has a whooping iron chasis.
Should I not do this?

(For those of you who helped me the last time, I finally decided to get
an electrician to wire it. He took the 220V line from my 30 amp circuit
for the house drier (I have a gas drier, so I don't use it), ran #10
wires out to a 30 amp breaker panel in the shed, split out two 110V
circuits and a 20 amp 220v and put in a ground stake. This took him 6
hours. It would have taken me about 2 months).


thanks,
b

A ground is never a bad idea. I would add one. I am not familiar with
that TS, so not sure how you would add it. Sure someone here can give you
some help with adding the ground.

Paul T.



--
The only dumb question, is the one not asked

"sibosop" wrote in message
...


So. I now have 220 V in my shed for my Walker Turner table saw. I
noticed that the plug from the saw only has two wires. The ground is
not connected. My shed has a ground stake.
Should I run the ground wire to the saw? It certainly has a whooping
iron chasis.
Should I not do this?


Why not just put a new cord on it with a ground wire inside?

--

-Mike-

"sibosop" wrote in message
...
I realize this isn't exactly a woodworking question, but when I asked
about 220 V wiring for my shed in an earlier thread a lot of
electricians came out of the 'woodwork'.

So. I now have 220 V in my shed for my Walker Turner table saw. I
noticed that the plug from the saw only has two wires. The ground is
not connected. My shed has a ground stake.
Should I run the ground wire to the saw? It certainly has a whooping
iron chasis.
Should I not do this?

(For those of you who helped me the last time, I finally decided to
get an electrician to wire it. He took the 220V
line from my 30 amp circuit for the house drier (I have a gas drier,
so I don't use it), ran #10 wires out to a 30 amp
breaker panel in the shed, split out two 110V circuits and a 20 amp
220v and put in a ground stake. This took him
6 hours. It would have taken me about 2 months).


I AM NO ELECTRICIAN

But I wired my 220 TS 10 years ago. Mine has 3 wires. 2 leads and a
neutral, not a ground.
Are you sure yours is not wired for 110? From what I understand more modern
wiring set ups are 4 wire. 2 leads, a neutral and a ground.

Might want to consult a qualified electrician on the matter.

Leon wrote:
....

I AM NO ELECTRICIAN

But I wired my 220 TS 10 years ago. Mine has 3 wires. 2 leads and a
neutral, not a ground.

No, there is no neutral for a 220 (US, not Brit); the third conductgor
is a ground. You're confusing the use of the ground as neutral for the
110V circuit of a 3-wire dual voltage hookup (electric range range/dryer
for example) as making it a neutral--it isn't.

Are you sure yours is not wired for 110? From what I understand more modern
wiring set ups are 4 wire. 2 leads, a neutral and a ground.

Again, that's only for dual-use--the TS doesn't have the 110V load so no
need. Recent NEC requires the neutral rather than shared but again
there's no neutral for 220V only.

Might want to consult a qualified electrician on the matter.

OP did have the circuit run by an electrician he says -- as somebody
else noted, all he needs is a 3-wire cordset to update the old 2-wire
one in the most convenient manner to add the ground.

--

dpb wrote:
Leon wrote:
...

I AM NO ELECTRICIAN

But I wired my 220 TS 10 years ago. Mine has 3 wires. 2 leads and a
neutral, not a ground.

No, there is no neutral for a 220 (US, not Brit); the third conductgor
is a ground. You're confusing the use of the ground as neutral for
the 110V circuit of a 3-wire dual voltage hookup (electric range
range/dryer for example) as making it a neutral--it isn't.

Are you sure yours is not wired for 110? From what I understand
more modern wiring set ups are 4 wire. 2 leads, a neutral and a
ground.

Again, that's only for dual-use--the TS doesn't have the 110V load so
no need. Recent NEC requires the neutral rather than shared but again
there's no neutral for 220V only.

Might want to consult a qualified electrician on the matter.

OP did have the circuit run by an electrician he says -- as somebody
else noted, all he needs is a 3-wire cordset to update the old 2-wire
one in the most convenient manner to add the ground.

That is right. You only need a neutral when you need dual voltage as in a
dryer or stove. 240V (no longer 220 volt) only equipment such as motors only
need the two hot wires and a ground. Use the specific plug and receptical
for 240 volt and the rated amperage, better still, use a twist lock plug and
receptical (again the correct type for the voltage and amperage) if the wire
trails across the floor so that it doesn't get pulled out.

EXT wrote:
....

That is right. You only need a neutral when you need dual voltage as in
a dryer or stove. 240V (no longer 220 volt) only equipment such as
motors only need the two hot wires and a ground. ...

I just kept w/ Leon's values -- there's really ime no telling what any
given locale will be running as actual voltages...

The motor only "needs" the two hots if you're going to get into "needs"
(as the fact OP's running it currently on the 2-wire cordset shows).

/No, I _couldn't_ help myself now, could I? /

--

On Dec 8, 8:36*am, dpb wrote:
EXT wrote:

...

That is right. You only need a neutral when you need dual voltage as in
a dryer or stove. 240V (no longer 220 volt) only equipment such as
motors only need the two hot wires and a ground. ...

I just kept w/ Leon's values -- there's really ime no telling what any
given locale will be running as actual voltages...

The motor only "needs" the two hots if you're going to get into "needs"
(as the fact OP's running it currently on the 2-wire cordset shows). *

/No, I _couldn't_ help myself now, could I? /

--

OKay. Thanks everybody.
The way it is now is that there is a long extension cord (two wire
with ground) going to a short cord from the
saw (two wire). I can just replace the two wire cord with a three wire
and hook the ground to some appropriate piece
of iron on the saw top.

b

"Leon" wrote in message
...


I AM NO ELECTRICIAN

But I wired my 220 TS 10 years ago. Mine has 3 wires. 2 leads and a
neutral, not a ground.
Are you sure yours is not wired for 110? From what I understand more
modern wiring set ups are 4 wire. 2 leads, a neutral and a ground.


Nope. Just for appliances like clothes dryers which tap 120 off for things
like control circuits. Not so for a table saw unless yours has a spin dry
timer. I suspect yours has two 120v lines and a ground.

--

-Mike-

"dpb" wrote in message
...
EXT wrote:
...

That is right. You only need a neutral when you need dual voltage as in a
dryer or stove. 240V (no longer 220 volt) only equipment such as motors
only need the two hot wires and a ground. ...

I just kept w/ Leon's values -- there's really ime no telling what any
given locale will be running as actual voltages...

Snip



Hey It is hard to tell what the voltage is any more. LOL. 2 weeks ago
"after" having 3 new leads run underground to my home, I lost electricity in
1/2 of my house and had no 240? ;!) I started having issues with lights
diming.

I used a volt meter to check the voltage on the side of the house that I had
previousely been dead and got 105 volts on about half the recepticals. The
other half showed 138 volts.

The common neutral that was dedicated to my house and 3 neighbors had rusted
and was causing the dimming problem for all of us. The light company came
out and replaced the "thang" that attached the neutrals to the 4 houses.

Every thing went back to 122 volts after the repair.

"sibosop" wrote in message
...
On Dec 8, 8:36 am, dpb wrote:

OKay. Thanks everybody.
The way it is now is that there is a long extension cord (two wire
with ground) going to a short cord from the
saw (two wire). I can just replace the two wire cord with a three wire
and hook the ground to some appropriate piece
of iron on the saw top.

_______________________________________________

Why not just take out the short 2 wire cord and throw it away, and simply
attach the long 3 wire to the saw?

--

-Mike-

sibosop wrote:
....

The way it is now is that there is a long extension cord (two wire
with ground) going to a short cord from the saw (two wire).
I can just replace the two wire cord with a three wire
and hook the ground to some appropriate piece
of iron on the saw top.

I'd _strongly_ suggest (and maybe it's what you're saying) get rid of
the extension cord entirely and put an appropriately-sized cord on the
saw that is sufficient in length.

As for the ground connection, there should be a suitable grounding
location in the box where the cord is attached on the machine or very
near there that would be suitable and make for a neat installation.

Again, note that the ground conductor is simply that -- it serves no
operational electrical function; it's only a safety ground.

--

Leon wrote:
....
Hey It is hard to tell what the voltage is any more. LOL. 2 weeks ago
"after" having 3 new leads run underground to my home, I lost electricity in
1/2 of my house and had no 240? ;!) I started having issues with lights
diming.

Bad neutral is different that my reference altho can be entertaining set
of symptoms (unfortunately, which may also turn into expensive)...

I've seen "normal" anywhere from 107V - 130V as pretty common just
depending on where on a line and how far from distribution transformer a
run is. Perhaps not as much variation common in residential/metro areas
that don't cover such long distances w/ individual or very few loads as
see out here...

....

BTW, on that 240V circuit, I'd presume it is more than likely ok but it
might not hurt to double check did actually hook the ground conductor to
the ground buss in the box rather than to the neutral buss if really
were thinking neutral as opposed to ground way back then...nothing is
going to happen but it really ought to be on ground, not neutral per Code.

--

On Dec 8, 1:28*am, sibosop wrote:
I realize this isn't exactly a woodworking question, but when I asked
about 220 V wiring for my shed in an earlier thread a lot of
electricians came out of the 'woodwork'.

So. I now have 220 V in my shed for my Walker Turner table saw. I
noticed that the plug from the saw only has two wires. The ground is
not connected. *My shed has a ground stake.
Should I run the ground wire to the saw? It certainly has a whooping
iron chasis.
Should I not do this?

(For those of you who helped me the last time, I finally decided to
get an electrician to wire it. He took the 220V
line from my 30 amp circuit for the house drier (I have a gas drier,
so I don't use it), ran #10 wires out to a 30 amp
breaker panel in the shed, split out two 110V circuits and a 20 amp
220v and put in a ground stake. This took him
6 hours. It would have taken me about 2 months).

thanks,
b

I'm a bit confused. All of you are correctly worried about the
ground etc... Doesn't it bother anybody that the electrician ran a
#10 wire to the shop for a 30 amp circuit? I thought #10 was for 20
amps and #8 was the minimum for 30 amps. Am I wrong about that??

Len

"dpb" wrote:

I've seen "normal" anywhere from 107V - 130V as pretty common just
depending on where on a line and how far from distribution
transformer a run is. Perhaps not as much variation common in
residential/metro areas that don't cover such long distances w/
individual or very few loads as see out here...

Years ago, NEMA standardized on voltage ratings as follows:

Distribution devices such as transformers and circuit breakers:

120VAC and multiples there of.

Utilization devices such as motors and heating equipment:

115VAC and multiples there of.

The 5VAC differential accomodates line losses and calculation of
loads.

Lew

Lew Hodgett wrote:
....

Years ago, NEMA standardized on voltage ratings as follows:
....
That's theory; I'm talking observed...again, may be better in less rural
areas.

--

wrote:
....

I'm a bit confused. All of you are correctly worried about the
ground etc... Doesn't it bother anybody that the electrician ran a
#10 wire to the shop for a 30 amp circuit? I thought #10 was for 20
amps and #8 was the minimum for 30 amps. Am I wrong about that??

You're off by one size/gauge --

14 for 15A, 12 for 20, 10 for 30 is "nominal"

Depending on length of run, for the feeder one might choose to bump up a
size to 8 to minimize voltage drop but the #10 is adequate for the 30A
breaker (assuming the 'lektrishun followed the rules on conduit size,
etc., etc., etc., ... which one would presume would have done).

--

dpb wrote:

The motor only "needs" the two hots if you're going to get into "needs"

Hell, you really don't _need_ no stinking plug!

... ask any South o' the Border carpenter on a job site, who will
routinely strip 1" off two leads of an extension cord and stick'em
straight into the female receptacle on the t-pole (or the dryer plug in
the utility room which is usually the first thing powered in new
construction), to power 220/240 equipment.

Floor finishers are really bad about it because most of those big floor
sanders require 220/240, and they never seem to carry adapters.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/22/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)

In article ,
dpb wrote:

Leon wrote:
...
Hey It is hard to tell what the voltage is any more. LOL. 2 weeks ago
"after" having 3 new leads run underground to my home, I lost electricity
in
1/2 of my house and had no 240? ;!) I started having issues with lights
diming.

Bad neutral is different that my reference altho can be entertaining set
of symptoms (unfortunately, which may also turn into expensive)...

Loss of one hot at the breaker panel can also be entertaining, although
generally not as destructive. I've had that happen once or twice,
mainly at a house with an older distribution panel that used individual
cartridge fuses for the main rather than a ganged circuit breaker. Have
one wear out or go pop or whatever, and suddenly you have one phase
powered normally, and one phase powered through any 220V things that
happen to be on--mainly the water heater, in my case. Small loads
worked fine on that leg, but anything that drew any current would cause
the voltage to go down dramatically. The microwave clock, for instance,
ran fine, until actual cooking was attempted....

...

BTW, on that 240V circuit, I'd presume it is more than likely ok but it
might not hurt to double check did actually hook the ground conductor to
the ground buss in the box rather than to the neutral buss if really
were thinking neutral as opposed to ground way back then...nothing is
going to happen but it really ought to be on ground, not neutral per Code.

It depends where you're talking about checking. There is one point in
the system, typically at the main disconnect (the main breaker box),
where neutral and ground are bonded together, and at that point the
neutral buss is the ground buss and vice-versa.

For separate outbuildings, I think (but I'm not sure about this, not
being an electrician) the usual practice is to have a separate ground
rod and bond that to the neutral bus at the outbuilding's main panel,
omitting a separate safety ground wire between the buildings. In other
words, the outbuilding is wired as though it were an isolated
installation, not as a subpanel in the main building. In this case, for
the main panel in the outbuilding, neutral and ground would again share
the same bus bar(s). Any difference in ground potential between the
house ground and the outbuilding ground would, of course, result in a
current flow over the neutral wire; the assumption, I guess, is that
there shouldn't be a large potential difference and hence not too great
of a current flow.

--
Andrew Erickson

"He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot
lose." -- Jim Elliot

Andrew Erickson wrote:
....

It depends where you're talking about checking. ...

At the box that has the breaker for the circuit in question, obviously...

--

On Dec 8, 10:22*am, sibosop wrote:

I can just replace the two wire cord with a three wire
and hook the ground to some appropriate piece
of iron on the saw top.

That's not quite complete; you MUST connect the ground wire to the
box with the on/off switch, and the frame of the motor, and you
can then (if you want) bond the motor or switch to the tablesaw
top and/or frame.

"dpb" wrote:

That's theory; I'm talking observed...again, may be better in less
rural areas.

Theory hell, that's just the way it has been for over 30 years.

Measured values at any point in the system are not relavent to a
rating standard.

Lew


Lew

Lew Hodgett wrote:
"dpb" wrote:

That's theory; I'm talking observed...again, may be better in less
rural areas.

Theory hell, that's just the way it has been for over 30 years.

Measured values at any point in the system are not relavent to a
rating standard.

Other than I wasn't speaking of them but referring to measured...

--

Do any of you electricians recall the OLD way of wiring a double
pole switch from the knob and tube days. Yup, fellows, there
actually is an alternate way to wire a DP circuit.

Nonny


"Andrew Erickson" wrote in message
...
In article ,
dpb wrote:

Leon wrote:
...
Hey It is hard to tell what the voltage is any more. LOL. 2
weeks ago
"after" having 3 new leads run underground to my home, I lost
electricity
in
1/2 of my house and had no 240? ;!) I started having issues
with lights
diming.

Bad neutral is different that my reference altho can be
entertaining set
of symptoms (unfortunately, which may also turn into
expensive)...

Loss of one hot at the breaker panel can also be entertaining,
although
generally not as destructive. I've had that happen once or
twice,
mainly at a house with an older distribution panel that used
individual
cartridge fuses for the main rather than a ganged circuit
breaker. Have
one wear out or go pop or whatever, and suddenly you have one
phase
powered normally, and one phase powered through any 220V things
that
happen to be on--mainly the water heater, in my case. Small
loads
worked fine on that leg, but anything that drew any current
would cause
the voltage to go down dramatically. The microwave clock, for
instance,
ran fine, until actual cooking was attempted....

...

BTW, on that 240V circuit, I'd presume it is more than likely
ok but it
might not hurt to double check did actually hook the ground
conductor to
the ground buss in the box rather than to the neutral buss if
really
were thinking neutral as opposed to ground way back
then...nothing is
going to happen but it really ought to be on ground, not
neutral per Code.

It depends where you're talking about checking. There is one
point in
the system, typically at the main disconnect (the main breaker
box),
where neutral and ground are bonded together, and at that point
the
neutral buss is the ground buss and vice-versa.

For separate outbuildings, I think (but I'm not sure about this,
not
being an electrician) the usual practice is to have a separate
ground
rod and bond that to the neutral bus at the outbuilding's main
panel,
omitting a separate safety ground wire between the buildings.
In other
words, the outbuilding is wired as though it were an isolated
installation, not as a subpanel in the main building. In this
case, for
the main panel in the outbuilding, neutral and ground would
again share
the same bus bar(s). Any difference in ground potential between
the
house ground and the outbuilding ground would, of course, result
in a
current flow over the neutral wire; the assumption, I guess, is
that
there shouldn't be a large potential difference and hence not
too great
of a current flow.

--
Andrew Erickson

"He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which
he cannot
lose." -- Jim Elliot


--
Nonny

What does it mean when drool runs
out of both sides of a drunken
Congressman’s mouth?

The floor is level.

"Andrew Erickson" wrote in message
...


For separate outbuildings, I think (but I'm not sure about this,
not
being an electrician) the usual practice is to have a separate
ground
rod and bond that to the neutral bus at the outbuilding's main
panel,
omitting a separate safety ground wire between the buildings.
In other
words, the outbuilding is wired as though it were an isolated
installation, not as a subpanel in the main building. In this
case, for
the main panel in the outbuilding, neutral and ground would
again share
the same bus bar(s). Any difference in ground potential between
the
house ground and the outbuilding ground would, of course, result
in a
current flow over the neutral wire; the assumption, I guess, is
that
there shouldn't be a large potential difference and hence not
too great
of a current flow.


My Dad bought an older home and built a detached 2-car garage
around 1950 or so. I vaguely remember when the garage was being
built and watching the electrician wire it for a single light and
one plug, controlled from a switch both at the house and at the
garage/

As a teen, later on, I bought a little booket at Sears, called,
"How to wire a house," which I thought was an incredible insight
into the secrets of wiring. However, something never made sense
to me until later on, when I was wiring homes myself as a means to
continue college. There were only two wires running between the
house and garage. It finally dawned on me why in the summer, the
light wasn't as bright and why it would dim so much when I'd plug
a drill or small saw into the duplex receptacle.

I investigated and for the first time, noticed the bare wire
running from the old switch down to a rod driven into the ground.
That was the light leg and when it was summer in MO, it was
usually dry. The electrician had saved probably $2 in wire, back
then, deciding instead to use the earth as a ground/neutral.

--
Nonny

What does it mean when drool runs
out of both sides of a drunken
Congressman’s mouth?

The floor is level.

"dpb" wrote in message
...

BTW, on that 240V circuit, I'd presume it is more than likely ok but it
might not hurt to double check did actually hook the ground conductor to
the ground buss in the box rather than to the neutral buss if really were
thinking neutral as opposed to ground way back then...nothing is going to
happen but it really ought to be on ground, not neutral per Code.

--


Code... hmmmmm. Naw there was no ground at all in the box that I spliced
into. ;~) The dryer and shop share the same circuit. If I ever move I
will yank the external addition.

"Swingman" wrote in message
...
dpb wrote:

The motor only "needs" the two hots if you're going to get into "needs"

Hell, you really don't _need_ no stinking plug!

... ask any South o' the Border carpenter on a job site, who will
routinely strip 1" off two leads of an extension cord and stick'em
straight into the female receptacle on the t-pole (or the dryer plug in
the utility room which is usually the first thing powered in new
construction), to power 220/240 equipment.

Floor finishers are really bad about it because most of those big floor
sanders require 220/240, and they never seem to carry adapters.


I reecall seeing the floor finisher using bare ended Tomex as an extension
cord in Elgin.

Nonny wrote:
Do any of you electricians recall the OLD way of wiring a double pole
switch from the knob and tube days. Yup, fellows, there actually is an
alternate way to wire a DP circuit.

Nonny


"Andrew Erickson" wrote in message
...
In article ,
dpb wrote:

Leon wrote:
...
Hey It is hard to tell what the voltage is any more. LOL. 2
weeks ago
"after" having 3 new leads run underground to my home, I lost
electricity
in
1/2 of my house and had no 240? ;!) I started having issues with
lights
diming.

Bad neutral is different that my reference altho can be entertaining set
of symptoms (unfortunately, which may also turn into expensive)...

Loss of one hot at the breaker panel can also be entertaining, although
generally not as destructive. I've had that happen once or twice,
mainly at a house with an older distribution panel that used individual
cartridge fuses for the main rather than a ganged circuit breaker. Have
one wear out or go pop or whatever, and suddenly you have one phase
powered normally, and one phase powered through any 220V things that
happen to be on--mainly the water heater, in my case. Small loads
worked fine on that leg, but anything that drew any current would cause
the voltage to go down dramatically. The microwave clock, for instance,
ran fine, until actual cooking was attempted....

...

BTW, on that 240V circuit, I'd presume it is more than likely ok but it
might not hurt to double check did actually hook the ground conductor to
the ground buss in the box rather than to the neutral buss if really
were thinking neutral as opposed to ground way back then...nothing is
going to happen but it really ought to be on ground, not neutral per
Code.

It depends where you're talking about checking. There is one point in
the system, typically at the main disconnect (the main breaker box),
where neutral and ground are bonded together, and at that point the
neutral buss is the ground buss and vice-versa.

For separate outbuildings, I think (but I'm not sure about this, not
being an electrician) the usual practice is to have a separate ground
rod and bond that to the neutral bus at the outbuilding's main panel,
omitting a separate safety ground wire between the buildings. In other
words, the outbuilding is wired as though it were an isolated
installation, not as a subpanel in the main building. In this case, for
the main panel in the outbuilding, neutral and ground would again share
the same bus bar(s). Any difference in ground potential between the
house ground and the outbuilding ground would, of course, result in a
current flow over the neutral wire; the assumption, I guess, is that
there shouldn't be a large potential difference and hence not too great
of a current flow.

--
Andrew Erickson

"He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot
lose." -- Jim Elliot



http://www.homeimprovementweb.com/in...way-switch.htm

"Mike Marlow" wrote in message
...

"Leon" wrote in message
...


I AM NO ELECTRICIAN

But I wired my 220 TS 10 years ago. Mine has 3 wires. 2 leads and a
neutral, not a ground.
Are you sure yours is not wired for 110? From what I understand more
modern wiring set ups are 4 wire. 2 leads, a neutral and a ground.


Nope. Just for appliances like clothes dryers which tap 120 off for
things like control circuits. Not so for a table saw unless yours has a
spin dry timer. I suspect yours has two 120v lines and a ground.

Noooo I am tapped in to the dryer circuit. ;~) Has worked well for 10+
years. I'll look into the spin dry cycle.

"Leon" wrote in message
...

"Swingman" wrote in message
...
dpb wrote:



I reecall seeing the floor finisher using bare ended Tomex as an
extension cord in Elgin.


ROMEX

I guess he might have Tormex'ed the wire ends to make them pointy so they
would go in easier. ;~)

Leon wrote:
"Leon" wrote in message
...
"Swingman" wrote in message
...
dpb wrote:


I reecall seeing the floor finisher using bare ended Tomex as an
extension cord in Elgin.


ROMEX

I guess he might have Tormex'ed the wire ends to make them pointy so they
would go in easier. ;~)


Do not use the backstab connectors!

--
Froz...


The system will be down for 10 days for preventive maintenance.

On Dec 8, 1:07*pm, whit3rd wrote:
On Dec 8, 10:22*am, sibosop wrote:

I can just replace the two wire cord with a three wire
and hook the ground to some appropriate piece
of iron on the saw top.

That's not quite complete; you MUST connect the ground wire to the
box with the on/off switch, and the frame of the motor, and you
can then (if you want) bond the motor or switch to the tablesaw
top and/or frame.

Ok. Thank you.
Switch, Motor
Switch. Motor.
Switch. Motor
b

Leon wrote:
....

Code... hmmmmm. Naw there was no ground at all in the box that I spliced
into. ;~) The dryer and shop share the same circuit. If I ever move I
will yank the external addition.

I bet there is...(a ground that is)...

If it's 3-wire dryer outlet the "neutral" will actually be on the ground
connection conductor...so when you tied your third to it it is also
ground. I'd wager that's what you'd find if you were to check the
circuit connections in the panel.

--

"FrozenNorth" wrote in message
...
Leon wrote:
"Leon" wrote in message
...
"Swingman" wrote in message
...
dpb wrote:


I reecall seeing the floor finisher using bare ended Tomex as
an extension cord in Elgin.


ROMEX

I guess he might have Tormex'ed the wire ends to make them
pointy so they would go in easier. ;~)
Do not use the backstab connectors!

--
Froz...

Nope- it's done from the front. Just strip the wires back 3/4 to
1" or so and twist the bare conductor into a loop. Flatten the
loop a little bit to make it just skinny enough to fit through the
Bakelite outlet face and it makes a very good, serviceable, male
plug.

--
Nonny

What does it mean when drool runs
out of both sides of a drunken
Congressman's mouth?

The floor is level.

sibosop wrote:
On Dec 8, 1:07 pm, whit3rd wrote:
On Dec 8, 10:22 am, sibosop wrote:

I can just replace the two wire cord with a three wire
and hook the ground to some appropriate piece
of iron on the saw top.
That's not quite complete; you MUST connect the ground wire to the
box with the on/off switch, and the frame of the motor, and you
can then (if you want) bond the motor or switch to the tablesaw
top and/or frame.

Ok. Thank you.
Switch, Motor
Switch. Motor.
Switch. Motor

In _very_ high likelihood those bondings are already done w/ the
mounting but never hurts to check or run a separate. Logically, while
you're at it you would run 3-wire from the switch to the motor at the
same time you're doing the rest and tie the grounds together.

--

"dpb" wrote in message
...
Leon wrote:
...

Code... hmmmmm. Naw there was no ground at all in the box that I spliced
into. ;~) The dryer and shop share the same circuit. If I ever move I
will yank the external addition.

I bet there is...(a ground that is)...

If it's 3-wire dryer outlet the "neutral" will actually be on the ground
connection conductor...so when you tied your third to it it is also
ground. I'd wager that's what you'd find if you were to check the circuit
connections in the panel.


You are probably right.

wrote in message
...


I'm a bit confused. All of you are correctly worried about the
ground etc... Doesn't it bother anybody that the electrician ran a
#10 wire to the shop for a 30 amp circuit? I thought #10 was for 20
amps and #8 was the minimum for 30 amps. Am I wrong about that??

Len

************************************************** ********************************

Not a bit worried. #10 is rated for 30A.

--

-Mike-

On 12/8/09 6:06 PM, "dpb" wrote:

Leon wrote:
...


Code... hmmmmm. Naw there was no ground at all in the box that I spliced
into. ;~) The dryer and shop share the same circuit. If I ever move I
will yank the external addition.

I bet there is...(a ground that is)...

If it's 3-wire dryer outlet the "neutral" will actually be on the ground
connection conductor...so when you tied your third to it it is also
ground. I'd wager that's what you'd find if you were to check the
circuit connections in the panel.

Neutral is connected to an earth ground at the service panel but the neutral
and ground wires play different roles in the circuits once you leave the
main panel. The neutral carries current. It s nominally the return path, but
because we use AC, the current flows in both directions at different times.
The ground should never carry current in normal situations. It is there for
protection.

In a three wire 220v set up, you have two hot wires and a ground. The two
hot lines are in opposite phase, giving the 220v volts.

If you are re-wiring a tool to run on 220, you should also change the plug
to one rate for 220. They have a different prong pattern so you can't easily
plug them into the wrong circuit.

Robert Haar wrote:
On 12/8/09 6:06 PM, "dpb" wrote:

Leon wrote:
...


Code... hmmmmm. Naw there was no ground at all in the box that I spliced
into. ;~) The dryer and shop share the same circuit. If I ever move I
will yank the external addition.
I bet there is...(a ground that is)...

If it's 3-wire dryer outlet the "neutral" will actually be on the ground
connection conductor...so when you tied your third to it it is also
ground. I'd wager that's what you'd find if you were to check the
circuit connections in the panel.

Neutral is connected to an earth ground at the service panel but the neutral
and ground wires play different roles in the circuits once you leave the
main panel. The neutral carries current. It s nominally the return path, but
because we use AC, the current flows in both directions at different times.
The ground should never carry current in normal situations. It is there for
protection.
....
Sigh...

It's a 3-wire service dryer circuit in which the NEC previously allowed
the 120V service neutral to be carried by the ground conductor.

For 240V service w/o the need for the neutral, yes, virginia there is no
neutral.

This is/has been a sidebar conversation about the circuit Leon pigtailed
off of to power his saw from the dryer outlet; hence it does have at the
dryer connection a neutral for the dryer motor lights, etc., that uses
the ground connector per the previous NEC exception that allowed such
while it does serve as protective ground for the saw.

--


--


--

On Dec 8, 2:28*am, sibosop wrote:
I realize this isn't exactly a woodworking question, but when I asked
about 220 V wiring for my shed in an earlier thread a lot of
electricians came out of the 'woodwork'.

So. I now have 220 V in my shed for my Walker Turner table saw. I
noticed that the plug from the saw only has two wires. The ground is
not connected. *My shed has a ground stake.
Should I run the ground wire to the saw? It certainly has a whooping
iron chasis.
Should I not do this?

(For those of you who helped me the last time, I finally decided to
get an electrician to wire it. He took the 220V
line from my 30 amp circuit for the house drier (I have a gas drier,
so I don't use it), ran #10 wires out to a 30 amp
breaker panel in the shed, split out two 110V circuits and a 20 amp
220v and put in a ground stake. This took him
6 hours. It would have taken me about 2 months).

thanks,
b

My 220 consists of three leades, two "hot" and one "neutral" but the
newest setups (for household appliances 0 like a dryer) include a
separate equipment ground and use a four-conductor plug.

As I understand it, a short in your saw could conceivably employ you
as the ground (wet shoes, damp floor and a short to the frame).

I may be wrong, but I wire my 220VAC equipment with all four
conductors and do have a ground stake for the shop power distribution
box (about a 100 feet from the mains I ran it from at the house).