J. Clarke wrote:
The 3560 vibrates a little at startup but once it's going it passes the
nickel test just fine. No need for upgraded anything.


Coin on edge?


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

"Leon" wrote in message
...

"-MIKE-" wrote in message
...
Leon wrote:
Seems like a lot of benefits to give just to keep from having to clean
and wax it.

A flat top and less vibration go a long way in improving accuracy. I'd
say granite would be the superior surface if you are willing to take the
precautions, find other ways of using jigs and buy with a good fence to
start with.

For me no. I don't baby my tools.

Is vibration really an issue with a heavy cast iron top?
I'm asking.


Absolutely! Stock belts and pulleys on contractor saws can cause a lot of
vibration. Hence the belt and pulley kits that are offered as
aftermarket. Even the better cabinet saw makers are going from the 3 belt
set up to the serpentine automotive type belts as they don't take a set
shape.

I have a Delta contractor saw with stock pulleys and belt. Except
immediately after sitting unused for long periods, it starts up fast and
smooth. The nickel doesn't fall down until well into its wind down after
powering off. It probably helps that it's running on 220V. Start up is close
to immediate.

"CW" wrote in message
...
But you seemed a little smitten with this idea of a "Lifetime Waranty"
as if the whole notion made your heart go pitter-pat and your knees
all weak. If it did, then who am I to tell you any different? I happen
to
be a little more skeptical though. It's a common sense thing. eg

What it comes down to for me is that some guy -- someone collecting
a paycheck from Ridgid -- decides what is and is not "abuse, neglect,
or purposeful damage". Regardless of how I've treated my TS, it's this
guy's word against mine.

Sheesh. It seems obvious. Buy tools made by someone you trust, rather than
from the huckster trying to make the sale with warranty promises they
knowingly won't honor.

What's the likelihood that, should my motor
burn out or something else happen 5, 10, or 15 years down the road --
that he is going to decide that it was due to a "defect in workmanship"?

Do you have an expectation that the 15 year old motor dies due to hidden
manufacturing defects? What's your understanding of a warranty against
defects in material or manufacturing?

-MIKE- wrote in news:gphrg4$q03$1
@news.motzarella.org:

J. Clarke wrote:
The 3560 vibrates a little at startup but once it's going it passes the
nickel test just fine. No need for upgraded anything.


Coin on edge?



Mine [3560] passed the coin on edge nickel test at start up. However, it
wouldn't take much more during start up to knock the coin over.

Puckdropper
--
On Usenet, no one can hear you laugh. That's a good thing, though, as some
writers are incorrigible.

To email me directly, send a message to puckdropper (at) fastmail.fm

-MIKE- wrote:
J. Clarke wrote:
The 3560 vibrates a little at startup but once it's going it passes
the nickel test just fine. No need for upgraded anything.


Coin on edge?

Uh, what would be the point otherwise?

"Nova" wrote in message
...
Leon wrote:



I doubt that it is. Here's the Buffalo area web site:

http://www.jackslawnmower.com/


Yeah, absolutely a different Jack's than the one I used. LOL

I may have been a "bit " mistaken in the name but here is where I bought my
compressor parts, good to know anyway.

http://www.jackssmallengines.com/index.html

and,

http://www.jackssmallengines.com/do_it_home.html

If you Google Jack's small engine, you will come up with several
possibilities. Most of the ones that come up in my search have different
web pages however the Logos associated with the name are the same.

I am on their e-mail list and IIRC it comes in as Jack's lawn mower service,
but is not the one you are referring to.

"CW" wrote in message
...
Snip


Of course. I'd not meant to be obtuse or contentious. I realize that
Ridgid is not in business to provide its customers with tools,
unconditionally,
for life.

But you seemed a little smitten with this idea of a "Lifetime Waranty"
as if the whole notion made your heart go pitter-pat and your knees
all weak. If it did, then who am I to tell you any different? I happen
to
be a little more skeptical though. It's a common sense thing. eg

What it comes down to for me is that some guy -- someone collecting
a paycheck from Ridgid -- decides what is and is not "abuse, neglect,
or purposeful damage". Regardless of how I've treated my TS, it's this
guy's word against mine.

As is the case with ANY product that you buy. Fortunately "that guy" is
not the end of the line, there are other service centers and others up the
chain of command that can authorize the repair. With a Life Time warranty
that replaces batteries and any part that simply wears out or is found to be
defective you have to admit that the warranty is as good as it gets and is
probably going to protect you as long as you won the product. Having been
in the service business for my entire career I can assure you that if the
work gets turned down the repair shop looses out on revenue. They don't
save money by turning down warranty work. With that understanding, if you
bring in a tool with more than one "unrelated" broken part the tool was
probably abused.



What's the likelihood that, should my motor
burn out or something else happen 5, 10, or 15 years down the road --
that he is going to decide that it was due to a "defect in workmanship"?

Worn out is covered also.

Do you really think he's going to decide in my favor? If your answer is
other than "Highly unlikely" then I'd love to tell you how to triple your
money
in this little ponzi scheme that I've got going...

FWIW, I have a Wayne Dalton Garage Door and Opener. The door has had to
have a spring replaced at my cost as the door was out of warranty as far as
the spring was concerned. No problem, I understood that. Later the motor
on the opener started to go bad several years after the initial warrany
expired. I looked at the warranty I noticed that the motor has a life time
warranty. I called the manufacturer up and describe the problem to the
woman and she UPS'ed me a new motor and appoligised for the inconveinence.


I bought Ridgid because I read some good stuff about the product I
wanted. The price was right. And it was available the day I needed
it. And the warranty? Well it didn't even crack my top 5 reasons for
buying.

"Leon" wrote in message
...

"Nova" wrote in message
...
Leon wrote:



I doubt that it is. Here's the Buffalo area web site:

http://www.jackslawnmower.com/


Yeah, absolutely a different Jack's than the one I used. LOL

Funny how businesses evolve. I recently had a new high efficiency oil
boiler installed. It was done by Southbridge Tire Company. Yes, they still
sell tires too, but oil is the big part of the business today. FWIW, it is
saving my money, about 32% last fill-up.

"MikeWhy" wrote in message
...
"CW" wrote in message
...
But you seemed a little smitten with this idea of a "Lifetime Waranty"
as if the whole notion made your heart go pitter-pat and your knees
all weak. If it did, then who am I to tell you any different? I happen
to
be a little more skeptical though. It's a common sense thing. eg

What it comes down to for me is that some guy -- someone collecting
a paycheck from Ridgid -- decides what is and is not "abuse, neglect,
or purposeful damage". Regardless of how I've treated my TS, it's this
guy's word against mine.

Sheesh. It seems obvious. Buy tools made by someone you trust, rather than
from the huckster trying to make the sale with warranty promises they
knowingly won't honor.

I am kinda confused on the issue also. The company in question has a
pretty good reputation for building good tools and has one of the best
warranties in the industry. If after making a compairison of features and
it was a toss up between 3 or 4 brands, the better warranty is the one that
gets the nod.


What's the likelihood that, should my motor
burn out or something else happen 5, 10, or 15 years down the road --
that he is going to decide that it was due to a "defect in workmanship"?

Do you have an expectation that the 15 year old motor dies due to hidden
manufacturing defects? What's your understanding of a warranty against
defects in material or manufacturing?

AND Defects in Materials and Manufacturing aside, simply being used so much
that they wear out is covered also. Now if that motor had hammer dent
marks, modified wiring, had been subject to the wrong voltage or hit by
lightning, I can see the warranty being voided.

Ed Pawlowski wrote:
"Leon" wrote in message
...

"Nova" wrote in message
...
Leon wrote:



I doubt that it is. Here's the Buffalo area web site:

http://www.jackslawnmower.com/


Yeah, absolutely a different Jack's than the one I used. LOL

Funny how businesses evolve. I recently had a new high efficiency oil
boiler installed. It was done by Southbridge Tire Company. Yes,
they still sell tires too, but oil is the big part of the business
today. FWIW, it is saving my money, about 32% last fill-up.

My favorite is Sprint. More precisely SPRInT. Southern Pacific Railroad
Internal Telecommunications.

"Mike Marlow" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 14 Mar 2009 17:40:00 -0500, Leon cast forth these pearls of
wisdom...:




Would you expect otherwise? The tool is not built and expected to
perform
when misused, abused, or neglected. They do BTY advertise in some of
thir
ads that routine maintaince is covered under the warranty. I suspect
that
if you neglect to get routine "free" service performed that that would
void
the warranty.

Nope. No requirement for any "routine maintenance".


I suspect that would be subject to the specific tool. I recall an ad on
their worm drive circular saw. They were showing a chart of how you might
expect the tool to hold up at several thousand hour intervals. Something
like 5,000 hours, 200 homes framed, 10,000 hours tool brought in for free
service and hypoid oil replaced, 15,000 the tool......

From their site, and with registration you get the extended life time
warranty. It does state that the tool must be properly maintained, which I
understand to mean that routine maintenance would be required. The saw I
mentioned above does cover in the maintainence section of the owners manual,
checking of the oil level and replacing the oil.
Now If I had the saw and burned it up because it ran low on oil I would not
expect it to be covered under warranty, but maybe they would.

WHAT IS COVERED UNDER THE LIFETIME SERVICE AGREEMENT:

The Lifetime Service Agreement on RIDGID® Hand Held Power Tools, Stationary
Power Tools and Pneumatic Tools covers all worn parts in properly maintained
tools, including normal wear items such as brushes, chucks, motors,
switches, gears and even cordless batteries in your qualifying RIDGID®Brand
hand held and stationary power tools; and replacement rings, driver blades
and bumpers on RIDGID® Brand pneumatic tools for the lifetime of the
original owner. This Lifetime Service Agreement does not apply to other
RIDGID® Brand products.

"-MIKE-" wrote in message
...
Leon wrote:
For me no. I don't baby my tools.
Is vibration really an issue with a heavy cast iron top?
I'm asking.


Absolutely! Stock belts and pulleys on contractor saws can cause a lot
of vibration. Hence the belt and pulley kits that are offered as
aftermarket. Even the better cabinet saw makers are going from the 3 belt
set up to the serpentine automotive type belts as they don't take a set
shape.

Isn't the obvious solution, rather than get a saw with a 300lb top to
dampen vibration, simply upgrade the belt and maybe add a machined pulley?


It is ONE of the obvious "fixes", A blade that does not spin true or has a
chipped tooth can add vibration. All moving parts add to the vibration.
The simpler solution IMHO is simply to dampen it rather than build the
"perfect" machine that has no weakest points.

"MikeWhy" wrote in message
...
"Leon" wrote in message
...


I have a Delta contractor saw with stock pulleys and belt. Except
immediately after sitting unused for long periods, it starts up fast and
smooth. The nickel doesn't fall down until well into its wind down after
powering off. It probably helps that it's running on 220V. Start up is
close to immediate.


Great, I had a Craftsman iron top that passed the nickel test, but IMHO the
nickel test is a starting point indicator that you are headed in the right
direction in dampening vibration. My cabinet saw passes the nickel test
with less movement than the old saw and I get better results with this saw
over the Craftsman. The less vibration you have the better the cuts, all
things being equal.

J. Clarke wrote:
-MIKE- wrote:
J. Clarke wrote:
The 3560 vibrates a little at startup but once it's going it passes
the nickel test just fine. No need for upgraded anything.


Coin on edge?

Uh, what would be the point otherwise?

I was asking what the "nickel test" was?


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

Leon wrote:
"Nova" wrote in message
...

Leon wrote:


I doubt that it is. Here's the Buffalo area web site:

http://www.jackslawnmower.com/



Yeah, absolutely a different Jack's than the one I used. LOL

I may have been a "bit " mistaken in the name but here is where I bought my
compressor parts, good to know anyway.

http://www.jackssmallengines.com/index.html

and,

http://www.jackssmallengines.com/do_it_home.html


The places in your area look like my kind of stores.

The one thing that struck me odd when I looked for Ridgid's authorized
service locations is that there are four within 100 miles of my
location. Only two are less that 50 miles from my home. I'm familiar
with the big name players in my local area that perform warranty service
and sell parts for the majority of power tool, appliance and automobile
parts. Most of the major power tool manufactures all use one of three
places in my area. I've never heard of the two Ridgid uses, and have
driven past both hundreds of time and never even knew they were there.
One looks like a small mom & pop hardware store, the other looks like a
commercial garage. It doesn't appear that either of them sell Ridgid tools?

--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA

Leon wrote:
"-MIKE-" wrote in message
...
Leon wrote:
For me no. I don't baby my tools.
Is vibration really an issue with a heavy cast iron top?
I'm asking.

Absolutely! Stock belts and pulleys on contractor saws can cause a lot
of vibration. Hence the belt and pulley kits that are offered as
aftermarket. Even the better cabinet saw makers are going from the 3 belt
set up to the serpentine automotive type belts as they don't take a set
shape.
Isn't the obvious solution, rather than get a saw with a 300lb top to
dampen vibration, simply upgrade the belt and maybe add a machined pulley?


It is ONE of the obvious "fixes", A blade that does not spin true or has a
chipped tooth can add vibration. All moving parts add to the vibration.
The simpler solution IMHO is simply to dampen it rather than build the
"perfect" machine that has no weakest points.


I guess my point is... so far the only advantage anyone can offer for
having a granite top is to dampen vibration. So why would you give up
all the advantages of a magnetic top, just to dampen vibration caused by
faulty or poorly designed parts?

The obvious fix to your specific cause would be to return the blade that
isn't spinning true or buy a new one to replace the chipped tooth.
Somehow I can't see one chipped tooth causing enough vibration in a
decent table saw to matter much. Of course, I've done all of my work on
a -$200 Ryobi with a $100 blade, so I probably wouldn't notice. :-)


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On Sun, 15 Mar 2009 10:23:50 -0500, Leon wrote:

Sheesh. It seems obvious. Buy tools made by someone you trust, rather
than from the huckster trying to make the sale with warranty promises
they knowingly won't honor.

I am kinda confused on the issue also. The company in question has a
pretty good reputation for building good tools and has one of the best
warranties in the industry. If after making a compairison of features
and it was a toss up between 3 or 4 brands, the better warranty is the
one that gets the nod.

Of course, there's always the question of the company still being around
10-20 years from now. That's never a given, but in today's economy....



--
Intelligence is an experiment that failed - G. B. Shaw

"Nova" wrote in message
...


The places in your area look like my kind of stores.


Yeah, unfortunately none are near me. I was desperate for compressor parts
and came up with Jack's through Google IIRC.



The one thing that struck me odd when I looked for Ridgid's authorized
service locations is that there are four within 100 miles of my location.
Only two are less that 50 miles from my home. I'm familiar with the big
name players in my local area that perform warranty service and sell parts
for the majority of power tool, appliance and automobile parts. Most of
the major power tool manufactures all use one of three places in my area.
I've never heard of the two Ridgid uses, and have driven past both
hundreds of time and never even knew they were there. One looks like a
small mom & pop hardware store, the other looks like a commercial garage.
It doesn't appear that either of them sell Ridgid tools?

--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA

"Larry Blanchard" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 15 Mar 2009 10:23:50 -0500, Leon wrote:

Sheesh. It seems obvious. Buy tools made by someone you trust, rather
than from the huckster trying to make the sale with warranty promises
they knowingly won't honor.

I am kinda confused on the issue also. The company in question has a
pretty good reputation for building good tools and has one of the best
warranties in the industry. If after making a compairison of features
and it was a toss up between 3 or 4 brands, the better warranty is the
one that gets the nod.

Of course, there's always the question of the company still being around
10-20 years from now. That's never a given, but in today's economy....


True but unless you "know" a company is about to fold you cannot make a
decision on what might be.

"-MIKE-" wrote in message
...
J. Clarke wrote:
-MIKE- wrote:
J. Clarke wrote:
The 3560 vibrates a little at startup but once it's going it passes
the nickel test just fine. No need for upgraded anything.


Coin on edge?

Uh, what would be the point otherwise?

I was asking what the "nickel test" was?

Coin on edge. If the coin on edge does not fall during start up, while the
saw is running, or during shut down, it passes the nickel test. There are
varying degrees of this test, the minimal you are looking for is for the
coin to stay upright when the saw is running. Start up and shut down is
really not a factor since you don't normally cut during start up or shut
down. Now if the coin stands up and does not roll or spin you are really
headed in the right direction.

"-MIKE-" wrote in message
...



I guess my point is... so far the only advantage anyone can offer for
having a granite top is to dampen vibration. So why would you give up all
the advantages of a magnetic top, just to dampen vibration caused by
faulty or poorly designed parts?

You are leaving out the fact that the top will not rust and that it will
stay flat. Cast iron will rust amd many will not remain flat. Remaining
flat has as much to do with accuracy as reducing vibration.

Additionally, magnetic feather boards/jigs and fixtures are a relatively
"New" concept. Not too many years ago they, magnetic, did not exist yet
those jigs that attached in other ways hve existed for a very long time.
I use a magnetic feather board however in some instances my older feather
board that attaches to the slot works better, it has a longer reach. Often
the magnetic feather board is too tall to use along with my Gripper.


The obvious fix to your specific cause would be to return the blade that
isn't spinning true or buy a new one to replace the chipped tooth.

Now that is simply being anal. No blade runs perfectly. I only use Forrest
blades, known for being considered one of the best brands and being very
flat. Does it run with out vibration? I seriousely doubt it, although a
lot less than other brands.

Somehow I can't see one chipped tooth causing enough vibration in a decent
table saw to matter much.

For some it may not. For some one making small tight fitting objects like
puzzles or cutting 1/16" and thinner veneer it would probably make a bigger
difference.

I personally will probably not ever purchase a TS with a granite top however
both cast iron and granite offer something that may be considered more
important to different people and for different uses. Some people keep
their saws out doors and or exposed to the outside climate. In desert
regoins a cast iorn top works out well and waxing the top works fine. Some
people live near salt water, rust is a daily battle and wax does not even
begin to address the rust issue. I live 60 miles from salt water and
TopCote is a must. I live in Houston, north of the Gulf of Mexico and the
prevailing summer winds bring salt in the air.

Of course, I've done all of my work on
a -$200 Ryobi with a $100 blade, so I probably wouldn't notice. :-)

Maybe not. ;~)

-MIKE- wrote:
J. Clarke wrote:
-MIKE- wrote:
J. Clarke wrote:
The 3560 vibrates a little at startup but once it's going it passes
the nickel test just fine. No need for upgraded anything.


Coin on edge?

Uh, what would be the point otherwise?

I was asking what the "nickel test" was?

Oh, sorry to bite your head off then. Yeah, the test is to balance a nickel
on edge while the saw is running.

Here are a couple of shots of the test in progress. You can't really tell
that the saw is running though--I need to reshoot them sometime and play
with the shutter speed until I get the blade movement clearly.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/3938372...7615311374584/

"-MIKE-" wrote in message
...
I guess my point is... so far the only advantage anyone can offer for
having a granite top is to dampen vibration. So why would you give up all
the advantages of a magnetic top, just to dampen vibration caused by
faulty or poorly designed parts?

It might be helpful to ask it the other way, too. Why NOT granite? Who
knows. The only thing that comes to mind is not being able to tap a threaded
hole in stone. I don't typically drop heavy, sharp cornered steel tooling on
the tablesaw. The only jig I have that fits that description is the big,
heavy tenoning jig. So far, I managed to not ding the C.I. top with it. I
also move somewhere else for heavy hammering. Why NOT granite?

Larry Blanchard wrote:
On Sun, 15 Mar 2009 10:23:50 -0500, Leon wrote:

Sheesh. It seems obvious. Buy tools made by someone you trust,
rather than from the huckster trying to make the sale with warranty
promises they knowingly won't honor.

I am kinda confused on the issue also. The company in question has
a pretty good reputation for building good tools and has one of the
best warranties in the industry. If after making a compairison of
features and it was a toss up between 3 or 4 brands, the better
warranty is the one that gets the nod.

Of course, there's always the question of the company still being
around 10-20 years from now. That's never a given, but in today's
economy....

If Ridgid was making substandard ovepriced tools it would be one thing, but
even without the lifetime warranty their tools are exceptional value.

On Mar 15, 11:52*am, "Leon" wrote:
"-MIKE-" wrote in message

...

Leon wrote:
For me no. *I don't baby my tools.
Is vibration really an issue with a heavy cast iron top?
I'm asking.

Absolutely! *Stock belts and pulleys on contractor saws can cause a lot
of vibration. *Hence the belt and pulley kits that are offered as
aftermarket. Even the better cabinet saw makers are going from the 3 belt
set up to the serpentine automotive type belts as they don't take a set
shape.

Isn't the obvious solution, rather than get a saw with a 300lb top to
dampen vibration, simply upgrade the belt and maybe add a machined pulley?

It is ONE of the obvious "fixes", *A blade that does not spin true or has a
chipped tooth can add vibration. *All moving parts add to the vibration..
The simpler solution IMHO is simply to dampen it rather than build the
"perfect" machine that has no weakest points.

Machined pulley and multiple V belt are part of the Ridgid package.

I've had one here for checking out, and it's an astonishing saw for
the price--$599.

On Mar 15, 12:29*pm, -MIKE- wrote:
Leon wrote:
"-MIKE-" wrote in message
...
Leon wrote:
For me no. *I don't baby my tools.
Is vibration really an issue with a heavy cast iron top?
I'm asking.

Absolutely! *Stock belts and pulleys on contractor saws can cause a lot
of vibration. *Hence the belt and pulley kits that are offered as
aftermarket. Even the better cabinet saw makers are going from the 3 belt
set up to the serpentine automotive type belts as they don't take a set
shape.
Isn't the obvious solution, rather than get a saw with a 300lb top to
dampen vibration, simply upgrade the belt and maybe add a machined pulley?

It is ONE of the obvious "fixes", *A blade that does not spin true or has a
chipped tooth can add vibration. *All moving parts add to the vibration.
The simpler solution IMHO is simply to dampen it rather than build the
"perfect" machine that has no weakest points.

I guess my point is... so far the only advantage anyone can offer for
having a granite top is to dampen vibration. *So why would you give up
all the advantages of a magnetic top, just to dampen vibration caused by
faulty or poorly designed parts?

The obvious fix to your specific cause would be to return the blade that
isn't spinning true or buy a new one to replace the chipped tooth.
Somehow I can't see one chipped tooth causing enough vibration in a
decent table saw to matter much. *Of course, I've done all of my work on
a -$200 Ryobi with a $100 blade, so I probably wouldn't notice. *:-)

--

No rust is another benefit. Ease of assembly of extensions is another.
Much lower vibration overall is a prime benefit.

This is a good saw made better by the extra mass. On the one here, the
extension wings weighed 54 pounds each, compared to the Jet's cast
iron 40 pounders.

On Mar 15, 12:30*pm, Larry Blanchard wrote:
On Sun, 15 Mar 2009 10:23:50 -0500, Leon wrote:
Sheesh. It seems obvious. Buy tools made by someone you trust, rather
than from the huckster trying to make the sale with warranty promises
they knowingly won't honor.

I am kinda confused on the issue also. * The company in question has a
pretty good reputation for building good tools and has one of *the best
warranties in the industry. *If after making a compairison of features
and it was a toss up between 3 or 4 brands, the better warranty is the
one that gets the nod.

Of course, there's always the question of the company still being around
10-20 years from now. *That's never a given, but in today's economy....

--

Oh, come on. At this moment, ANY person who guarantees almost any
cmpany being around a decade from now is foolish. The company that
manufactures Ridgid tools, or at least the table saw, is immense, as
is Home Depot. That doesn't mean either can fail, but in general,
manufacturers tend to have less greedy and more able managers--
especially those not auto related...bankers and insurance, Jaysus! AIG
is paying $170 million bucks of our money to keep their "skilled
managers," the guys who led them into their current debacle.

On Mar 15, 1:21*pm, "MikeWhy" wrote:
"-MIKE-" wrote in message

...

I guess my point is... so far the only advantage anyone can offer for
having a granite top is to dampen vibration. *So why would you give up all
the advantages of a magnetic top, just to dampen vibration caused by
faulty or poorly designed parts?

It might be helpful to ask it the other way, too. Why NOT granite? Who
knows. The only thing that comes to mind is not being able to tap a threaded
hole in stone. I don't typically drop heavy, sharp cornered steel tooling on
the tablesaw. The only jig I have that fits that description is the big,
heavy tenoning jig. So far, I managed to not ding the C.I. top with it. I
also move somewhere else for heavy hammering. Why NOT granite?

Hell, Ridgid wasn't even first. Steel City appears to have been.
Others are following suit, though those that aren't won't comment on
the reasons they're hanging in there with cast iron.

On Mar 13, 6:00*pm, "CW" wrote:
Has anyone checked out the new *contractor's* tablesaw from Ridgid?
I saw it today when I was at HD.

It looks like it's supposed to replace the old cast iron TS3650. * Did I
mention
it's GRANITE topped! *(I'm a newbie, so I found that a tad impressive....)
It's also got a new fence system & redesigned Herc-U-Lift.

Didn't have time to give it more than a passing look/see but one thing
I did notice was the top was already chipped.

Hmmmm....

It certainly looks like a fine saw. The granite top makes a whole lot
of sense, although I worry a bit about the t-track.
But a properly selected slab of granite is some tough. Any wee pits
and chips are easily filled and levelled.

On Sun, 15 Mar 2009 12:21:58 -0500, "MikeWhy"
wrote:

"-MIKE-" wrote in message
...
I guess my point is... so far the only advantage anyone can offer for
having a granite top is to dampen vibration. So why would you give up all
the advantages of a magnetic top, just to dampen vibration caused by
faulty or poorly designed parts?

It might be helpful to ask it the other way, too. Why NOT granite? Who
knows. The only thing that comes to mind is not being able to tap a threaded
hole in stone. I don't typically drop heavy, sharp cornered steel tooling on
the tablesaw. The only jig I have that fits that description is the big,
heavy tenoning jig. So far, I managed to not ding the C.I. top with it. I
also move somewhere else for heavy hammering. Why NOT granite?


Granite might crack, chip or break, wears faster than iron. Vibration
can be caused by many factors including case design, material, mass,
belt design, tar buildup, rpm, bent shaft, damaged blade, etc.

My lathe sometimes has a vibration issue. It helps to have a variable
speed motor--sometimes changing the speed eliminates the vibration
completely. It helps to have a pair of 800 pound cast iron legs with
a shelf full of sandbags.

"Phisherman" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 15 Mar 2009 12:21:58 -0500, "MikeWhy"
wrote:

"-MIKE-" wrote in message
...
I guess my point is... so far the only advantage anyone can offer for
having a granite top is to dampen vibration. So why would you give up
all
the advantages of a magnetic top, just to dampen vibration caused by
faulty or poorly designed parts?

It might be helpful to ask it the other way, too. Why NOT granite? Who
knows. The only thing that comes to mind is not being able to tap a
threaded
hole in stone. I don't typically drop heavy, sharp cornered steel tooling
on
the tablesaw. The only jig I have that fits that description is the big,
heavy tenoning jig. So far, I managed to not ding the C.I. top with it. I
also move somewhere else for heavy hammering. Why NOT granite?


Granite might crack, chip or break, wears faster than iron. Vibration
can be caused by many factors including case design, material, mass,
belt design, tar buildup, rpm, bent shaft, damaged blade, etc.

My lathe sometimes has a vibration issue. It helps to have a variable
speed motor--sometimes changing the speed eliminates the vibration
completely. It helps to have a pair of 800 pound cast iron legs with
a shelf full of sandbags.

Chipping and cracking was first on my mind as well. But how? In normal or
even extreme use, how or what will cause it to chip or crack? Just how tough
or fragile is this stuff? It's only a matter of time before the woodworking
magazines bombard one with ball bearings and bowling balls. I'll sit on the
fence until then.

On Sun, 15 Mar 2009 14:01:16 -0700, Charlie Self wrote:

Of course, there's always the question of the company still being
around 10-20 years from now. Â*That's never a given, but in today's
economy....

Oh, come on. At this moment, ANY person who guarantees almost any cmpany
being around a decade from now is foolish.

That's what I meant. I wasn't implying that HD was any more or less
likely to fail than any other company. I'm just not overly impressed
with so-called lifetime warranties. OTOH, at my age 10-20 years will
handle my lifetime :-).

--
Intelligence is an experiment that failed - G. B. Shaw

On Mar 15, 5:14*pm, Phisherman wrote:
On Sun, 15 Mar 2009 12:21:58 -0500, "MikeWhy"

wrote:
"-MIKE-" wrote in message
...
I guess my point is... so far the only advantage anyone can offer for
having a granite top is to dampen vibration. *So why would you give up all
the advantages of a magnetic top, just to dampen vibration caused by
faulty or poorly designed parts?

It might be helpful to ask it the other way, too. Why NOT granite? Who
knows. The only thing that comes to mind is not being able to tap a threaded
hole in stone. I don't typically drop heavy, sharp cornered steel tooling on
the tablesaw. The only jig I have that fits that description is the big,
heavy tenoning jig. So far, I managed to not ding the C.I. top with it. I
also move somewhere else for heavy hammering. Why NOT granite?

Granite might crack, chip or break, wears faster than iron.

The cracking has a lot to do with selection. Natural fissures occur,
but can be found ahead of use.
Chip? Well, that takes a bit too. Something that chips granite, will
likely damage/pit cast iron as well.
It will out-wear cast iron by a long shot too. That stuff takes
diamonds to machine.

phorbin wrote:
In article , boat042-
says...

Chipping and cracking was first on my mind as well. But how? In
normal or even extreme use, how or what will cause it to chip or
crack? Just how tough or fragile is this stuff? It's only a matter
of time before the woodworking magazines bombard one with ball
bearings and bowling balls. I'll sit on the fence until then.

Percussion?

In art school I bounced a hammer off a granite tile once 2'x2'x2" and
the thing cracked as if I'd kung fu'd it.

Cast iron can crack too you know. My Dad had to put a new table on his band
saw once when he dropped the old one and it broke into two pieces.

In article , boat042-
says...

Chipping and cracking was first on my mind as well. But how? In normal or
even extreme use, how or what will cause it to chip or crack? Just how tough
or fragile is this stuff? It's only a matter of time before the woodworking
magazines bombard one with ball bearings and bowling balls. I'll sit on the
fence until then.

Percussion?

In art school I bounced a hammer off a granite tile once 2'x2'x2" and
the thing cracked as if I'd kung fu'd it.

On Mar 15, 5:38*pm, "MikeWhy" wrote:
"Phisherman" wrote in message

...



On Sun, 15 Mar 2009 12:21:58 -0500, "MikeWhy"
wrote:

"-MIKE-" wrote in message
...
I guess my point is... so far the only advantage anyone can offer for
having a granite top is to dampen vibration. *So why would you give up
all
the advantages of a magnetic top, just to dampen vibration caused by
faulty or poorly designed parts?

It might be helpful to ask it the other way, too. Why NOT granite? Who
knows. The only thing that comes to mind is not being able to tap a
threaded
hole in stone. I don't typically drop heavy, sharp cornered steel tooling
on
the tablesaw. The only jig I have that fits that description is the big,
heavy tenoning jig. So far, I managed to not ding the C.I. top with it. I
also move somewhere else for heavy hammering. Why NOT granite?

Granite might crack, chip or break, wears faster than iron. Vibration
can be caused by many factors including case design, material, mass,
belt design, tar buildup, rpm, bent shaft, damaged blade, etc.

My lathe sometimes has a vibration issue. *It helps to have a variable
speed motor--sometimes changing the speed eliminates the vibration
completely. *It helps to have a pair of 800 pound cast iron legs with
a shelf full of sandbags.

Chipping and cracking was first on my mind as well. But how? In normal or
even extreme use, how or what will cause it to chip or crack? Just how tough
or fragile is this stuff? It's only a matter of time before the woodworking
magazines bombard one with ball bearings and bowling balls. I'll sit on the
fence until then.

Bombardment only makes sense if they do the same to all the saws with
cast iron tops as well.

From what I've been told, small chips fill in easily with epoxy, which
is then sanded flat.

Someone else stated that granite wears faster than cast iron. I don't
know that, but let's assume it does. When was the last time anyone
here saw, or even heard of from a reliable source, a tablesaw top in
hobby use wearing out? It just doesn't happen. Sure, it's possible in
some commercial applications, but even then, I've got my doubts.

In article ,
says...
phorbin wrote:
In article , boat042-
says...

Chipping and cracking was first on my mind as well. But how? In
normal or even extreme use, how or what will cause it to chip or
crack? Just how tough or fragile is this stuff? It's only a matter
of time before the woodworking magazines bombard one with ball
bearings and bowling balls. I'll sit on the fence until then.

Percussion?

In art school I bounced a hammer off a granite tile once 2'x2'x2" and
the thing cracked as if I'd kung fu'd it.

Cast iron can crack too you know. My Dad had to put a new table on his band
saw once when he dropped the old one and it broke into two pieces.

True.

I've destroyed two vises in my life. One when I was a kid and horsed one
of those 2 in. clamp to the table types too tightly. And last year I
wrecked one small boat anchor of a mechanic's vise by dropping.

:^) I guess I better stop using my saw table as an anvil.

On Mar 15, 5:38*pm, "MikeWhy" wrote:
"Phisherman" wrote in message

...



On Sun, 15 Mar 2009 12:21:58 -0500, "MikeWhy"
wrote:

"-MIKE-" wrote in message
...
I guess my point is... so far the only advantage anyone can offer for
having a granite top is to dampen vibration. *So why would you give up
all
the advantages of a magnetic top, just to dampen vibration caused by
faulty or poorly designed parts?

It might be helpful to ask it the other way, too. Why NOT granite? Who
knows. The only thing that comes to mind is not being able to tap a
threaded
hole in stone. I don't typically drop heavy, sharp cornered steel tooling
on
the tablesaw. The only jig I have that fits that description is the big,
heavy tenoning jig. So far, I managed to not ding the C.I. top with it. I
also move somewhere else for heavy hammering. Why NOT granite?

Granite might crack, chip or break, wears faster than iron. Vibration
can be caused by many factors including case design, material, mass,
belt design, tar buildup, rpm, bent shaft, damaged blade, etc.

My lathe sometimes has a vibration issue. *It helps to have a variable
speed motor--sometimes changing the speed eliminates the vibration
completely. *It helps to have a pair of 800 pound cast iron legs with
a shelf full of sandbags.

Chipping and cracking was first on my mind as well. But how? In normal or
even extreme use, how or what will cause it to chip or crack? Just how tough
or fragile is this stuff? It's only a matter of time before the woodworking
magazines bombard one with ball bearings and bowling balls. I'll sit on the
fence until then.

Make sure it is a Biesemeier.

On Mar 16, 12:24*pm, phorbin wrote:
In article , boat042-
says...

Chipping and cracking was first on my mind as well. But how? In normal or
even extreme use, how or what will cause it to chip or crack? Just how tough
or fragile is this stuff? It's only a matter of time before the woodworking
magazines bombard one with ball bearings and bowling balls. I'll sit on the
fence until then.

Percussion?

In art school I bounced a hammer off a granite tile once 2'x2'x2" and
the thing cracked as if I'd kung fu'd it.

Granite is not all created equal. You will see a diamond cutter take
his wedge, look at it carefully and give the stone a whack..it splits.
The hardest stuff known is diamond. Yet, there are fissures.
A properly selected chunk of granite will be every bit as strong (and
stronger) than cast iron...cast iron which is also not created equal
can be as brittle as pot metal.
It is all about apples and apples and oranges and oranges.
To make a direct comparison is foolish.
As a prof of mine sometimes did, he'd mark LOI. (Lack Of Information.)

Planes are faster than cars......well....not necessarily.

Robatoy wrote:
....
Granite is not all created equal. You will see a diamond cutter take
his wedge, look at it carefully and give the stone a whack..it splits.
The hardest stuff known is diamond. Yet, there are fissures.

The diamond cleaves, not along a "fissure" but along the underlying
crystal facets or planes.

Granite is not a ductile material even as compared to cast iron. It has
excellent compressive strength, thermal stability, doesn't rust, etc.,
.... _BUT_ it doesn't have any significant bending resistance and is far
more likely to fracture under a moderate impact than cast iron.

The two materials are so differing in their properties it's unlikely you
can even find equivalent measured values for them -- there's no
essentially no such thing as "ultimate strength" or "yield strength" for
stone as well as a measured Young's modulus.

I've no real idea how well these new tops will hold up in normal use but
the disadvantages still seem to have much going against as the pluses
have going for them to me. Time will tell, I suppose. If they're
really a great thing, they'll take over; otherwise it'll just be a
relatively short-lived fad. (The latter would be my guess at the moment)

--