On Tue, 30 Dec 2003 13:38:32 -0500, "Norman D. Crow"
brought forth from the murky depths:

"Victor De Long" wrote in message
...
Didn't this group used to be about woodworking?

Oh, shaddup!

Nahmie, you should have hit him with the "Wood is endangered
so we are doing our parts to conserve it. Talk about wood is
reserved for weekend days, A.M. ONLY, please."

"Thank you for your immediate compliance."


-
Yea, though I walk through the valley of Minwax, I shall stain no Cherry.
http://diversify.com

Fly-by-Night CC wrote:

OK, I've had a question rattling around in my noggin' (note proper use
of an apostrophe to indicate a missing letter) for quite some time now...

Forgive me if someone already caught this. I've been offline for a bit. I
don't see anything in the posts I have.

I'm surprised everyone let you get away with that. You don't need an
apostrophe on that word. It's not a present participle with a missing G.
The "-in" on the end of it has nothing to do with a verb form.

The Collaborative International Dictionary of English v.0.48 [gcide]

Noggin \Nog"gin\, n. [Ir. noigin, or Gael. noigean. Cf. 1st
Nog.]

[snip]

3. The head (of a person). [slang]

At what point did we U.S.-ians and Canady-ites lose the Brit accent?

Like everyone already said, we didn't. We more or less still have it.

If you listen to the BBC as much as I do, you'll appreciate how reasonable
it seems to believe this too. It just seems to me like they've gone out of
their way to speak in a stilted, affectatious manner. Probably something
similar to the Spanish lithp on C/Z.

"Vital" and "vitamin" come from the same root, the Latin /vita/. (WEEtah or
VEEtah, depending on your preferred butchery of Latin.) It makes sense to
me that whatever vowel shifts made to those two words would be the same.
In the US, we say "VIE-tal" and "VIE-ta-min." The Latin long I "EE" has
changed to the the English long I "eye," and it's the same in both, as
expected. So why, then, do the Brits say "VIE-tal" and "VIT-a-min?" Why
the short I in "vitamin?"

I only play a linguist on TV, and I can't begin to get into the guts of this
kind of thing. I'm just saying my instinct tells me the explanation that
our dialect is more similar to Elizabethan English than the dialect spoken
in the UK today just feels right.

--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/

George wrote:

vanishing) manifestations among our Finn population is the lack of
prepositions, resulting in "we go Green Bay watch the Packers."

Probably because their language is one of the most highly inflected still
spoken today. It makes Latin look like a cakewalk by comparison, I hear.

which is a result of mass communication. It's great reading about the

Another thing to think about. Until around the turn of the previous
century, it had never been possible to record or human speech before, nor
to transmit it over long distances.

Mass communication, even just print media, had a *big* role in changing the
way languages developed. That's why a huge chunks of territory in the New
World all speak one of the same four basic languages (English, Castillian
Spanish, Portuguese, French), while nearly every little country in the Old
World speaks a completely different language. We came over with printing
presses.

The language pattern here before was similar to the way it was back across
the pond. Every little regional group spoke a distinct language, with
broader relationships uniting some of them into families, much as German
and Dutch are vaguely related. That's the way people did things before
they figured out how to write, and how to distribute the written word
efficiently.

States have at least four very distinct ones? (New England, Southern,
Upper Midwest, General American)

and how did I grow up in the South speaking General American? Another
mystery. Nobody ever guesses where I'm from, because I sound like I could
be from anywhere.

And of course, North Carolina Southern is very different from Georgia
Southern which is quite different from Coonass Louisiana Southern.

Very much so. I was surprised how little resemblance Georgian bears to
Foghorn Leghorn. That rooster must have come from the Upstate of South
Carolina.

Anyone ever notice how the basic dialect spoken by black people in all
corners of the US sounds almost exactly like rural speech in the Sandhills
of NC? That one really surprised me.

--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/

In article ,
LRod wrote:

I recall reading somewhere that the change actually occurred in
Britain around the 18th Century. There was supposedly a fashion
adopted of stylized speech, which became permanent and the genesis of
today's Brit accent, all of which, of course happened subsequent to
the major migration to "the colonies." Consequently, the accent heard
in New England is allegedly closer to the British way of speaking that
existed in the 17th Century than is heard there now.

Oz was settled in the late 18th Century and therefore took with them
the later version of the British accent.

If the preceding is true, it's probably more accurate to say that the
Brits *gained* an accent, rather than we lost one.

Fascinating. Truly. I had no idea and assumed the Brittish "always"
spoke with a Brittish accent.

I also seem to remember that the accents found deep in the Appalachins
are supposedly very similar to the Scots/Irish English (which
presumably was unaffected by the "fashion change") due to the
proponderence of Scots/Irish that settled the area.

The problem with all of that is how did we get such regionalized
accents in the States and how did so much of Canada get nearly the
same accent as that of our upper midwest (MN, WI, MI)? And how is it
that nearly all of Canada has roughly the same accent and we in the
States have at least four very distinct ones? (New England, Southern,
Upper Midwest, General American)

And of course, North Carolina Southern is very different from Georgia
Southern which is quite different from Coonass Louisiana Southern.

Yes, when I moved to northern Virginia at about 5 years old, from
California, I developed a deeply "Southern" accent, moreso than states
deeper south. I then moved to south central Pennsylvania for my Jr. High
years onward and lost much of the drawl. I tried my hand with "you'uns"
from the Penns folks, but to this day will still use "y'all" as I think
the expression just fits conversation so much better.

Ah, what a subject!

Truly.

--
Owen Lowe and his Fly-by-Night Copper Company
Offering a shim for the Porter-Cable 557 type 2 fence design.
http://www.flybynightcoppercompany.com
http://www.easystreet.com/~onlnlowe/index.html

In article ,
Andy Dingley wrote:

They didn't. Seventeenth century English travelled to New England and
stayed their, spelling, pronunciation and all. Then England changed.

Wow. I had nary a clue. I always figured it was the Colonists who
changed, either through assimilation of people speaking differing
languages or just out of spite.

From the '60s onwards, RP (received pronunciation) has gradually
disappeared from the UK. Brian Perkins and Alastair Cooke being the
last radio bastions of it - Brian Sewell is a caricature of it.
Regional accents have also toned down, with increased communications
between the regions. About the only widespread and locally distinctive
accents left in England are Geordie and Brummie - everything else is
diluted beyond recognition.

Now kids spend so much time watching cheap imported TV that they speak
a vile concoction of Sydney valley-girl that's unintelligible to
anyone over 30.

TV (and, I'm seeing much more, print) grammar and vocabulary is
HORRIBLE! Is it just me or have people started to misuse when to use "a"
and "an"? "A earthquake." or "An earthquake." "A historical house." or
"An historical house." (Maybe it's just the result of relying on
spellcheckers instead of observant journalists and editors.)

Australia still has theirs,

Australia speaks a variant of Dickensian Convict, with that weird
rising inflection at the end of every sentence, you know ?

He,he,he. A serious question, can you pick out any Brittish accent
embeded in the Aussie accent? Could their accent have originated from a
certain class of Brittish society that was more prone to being convicted
of illicit behavior?

--
Owen Lowe and his Fly-by-Night Copper Company
Offering a shim for the Porter-Cable 557 type 2 fence design.
http://www.flybynightcoppercompany.com
http://www.easystreet.com/~onlnlowe/index.html

In article , wrote:

Remember that German was almost made the official language
of the early US.

No, I didn't remember that. Vedddddy intarrrrestink.

--
Owen Lowe and his Fly-by-Night Copper Company
Offering a shim for the Porter-Cable 557 type 2 fence design.
http://www.flybynightcoppercompany.com
http://www.easystreet.com/~onlnlowe/index.html

In article ,
"Swingman" wrote:

And I love the accents of the women from the
Northwest USA ... used to hear them often in the days when MSFT did a lot of
their own support.

Gee, I live up and out here and I can't think of what you might find
attractive. Akshully I can't really hear an accent at all - and I've
only lived here 8 years, come up from Arizona.

Now those Southern belles... or the Scottish lasses...

--
Owen Lowe and his Fly-by-Night Copper Company
Offering a shim for the Porter-Cable 557 type 2 fence design.
http://www.flybynightcoppercompany.com
http://www.easystreet.com/~onlnlowe/index.html

In article ,
Silvan wrote:

Forgive me if someone already caught this. I've been offline for a bit. I
don't see anything in the posts I have.

I'm surprised everyone let you get away with that. You don't need an
apostrophe on that word. It's not a present participle with a missing G.
The "-in" on the end of it has nothing to do with a verb form.

LOL - really, I am. Told you this one thought was rattling around in a
bunch of emptiness.

--
Owen Lowe and his Fly-by-Night Copper Company
Offering a shim for the Porter-Cable 557 type 2 fence design.
http://www.flybynightcoppercompany.com
http://www.easystreet.com/~onlnlowe/index.html

(T.) wrote in message ...

Hey JT,

I'm in TN now and do enjoy the dialects I hear sometimes. However,
it's been my understanding that a NC location has (had) the closest
dialect to Elizabethan: Harker's Isle. When I was in grad school there
in the 80's, UNC had a massive oral history project for Harker's Isle
because the dialect was being lost--gradually, ever since the bridge
was built connecting it to the mainland after WWII, then after most of
their HS age children were bused to the mainland (in the 70's I
think). NPR had some interesting reports on this, but I got most of my
information from the locals when I lived in Greenville and my
scuba-diving buddy lived on Harkers. The old-timers there are
fascinating to listen to, but this will all be lost withing the next
20 years or so, maybe sooner.

H



Tue, Dec 30, 2003, 12:24pm (EST+5) (Glen) claims:
snip The deep dialect in some areas of Tennessee, for example, is the
closest surviving remmnant to Elizabethan English. It is one of the few
areas where words such as neer (as in neer do well), nary, and poke
(rather than a bag or a sack) are still in common usage. This dialect
has been preserved in the more isolated regions where until fairly
recently there was little or no outside the area contact, and now it is
generally used primarily by old timers. There are several projects
underway by several universities to record and save the speech patterns
for future study.

Well, that's interesting as Hell. Don't know how the theory would
stand up tho. I didn't come from TN, and I sure couldn't be said to
have been isolated. However, I have been known to use "neer do well"
once or twice, and say "nary" and "poke" at times. I would say you
could call it "common usage". When can I expect some of those
university fellers to come by? Do you think they'll call me "old
timer"?

JOAT
Success consists of going from failure to failure without loss of
enthusiasm.
- Sir Winston Churchill

Life just ain't life without good music. - JOAT
Web Page Update 29 Dec 2003.
Some tunes I like.
http://community-2.webtv.net/Jakofal...OMETUNESILIKE/

On Wed, 31 Dec 2003 00:11:02 -0800, Fly-by-Night CC
wrote:

Could their accent have originated from a
certain class of Brittish society that was more prone to being convicted
of illicit behavior?

Quite possibly - there's a huge skew in the Australian transportees
having come from urban SE England (which basically meant London).
Similar crimes in Bristol often found you pressed onto a navy ship
instead and the rural poor just didn't have the opportunities for the
same urban skullduggeries.

As to recognising it, then that's more historical linguistics than I
really now.

--
Klein bottle for rent. Apply within.

On Wed, 31 Dec 2003 00:11:02 -0800, Fly-by-Night CC
wrote:

"A historical house." or "An historical house."

Bad example. Although the consonant in historical would suggest the
use of "a," there is a convention that a silent consonant, as "h"
frequently is, allows the preceding article to be modified by the
succeeding vowel. For example, it's very proper to say, "it's an
honor," while nobody would think of saying, "I'm in an house."

There is a lot of vagueness in that convention (particularly in cases
where the "h" isn't even silent), however, as you will see plenty of
examples of either "a" or "an" preceding an "h" word, and both of your
examples would be considered correct.

One of the funniest lines to me on a TV show was a M.A.S.H. episode in
which Charles, in his very proper brahmin accent referred to "an
harmonica."

LRod

Master Woodbutcher and seasoned termite

Shamelessly whoring my website since 1999

http://www.woodbutcher.net

Is that kinda like the new US policy - the forrests are full of
combustibles?

Renata

On Wed, 31 Dec 2003 04:55:40 GMT, Larry Jaques
wrote:

Nahmie, you should have hit him with the "Wood is endangered
so we are doing our parts to conserve it. Talk about wood is
reserved for weekend days, A.M. ONLY, please."

"Thank you for your immediate compliance."


-
Yea, though I walk through the valley of Minwax, I shall stain no Cherry.
http://diversify.com

smart, not dumb for email

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 30 Dec 2003 13:38:32 -0500, "Norman D. Crow"
brought forth from the murky depths:

"Victor De Long" wrote in message
...
Didn't this group used to be about woodworking?

Oh, shaddup!

Nahmie, you should have hit him with the "Wood is endangered
so we are doing our parts to conserve it. Talk about wood is
reserved for weekend days, A.M. ONLY, please."

"Thank you for your immediate compliance."

ROFLMAO!

Sorry Lar, after all the pi**in' & moanin' started earlier about OT posting,
I wasn't feeling particularly humorous or charitable. Just thought the door
should be slammed shut *now*.

Nahmie

Our rather small family in South Louisiana is an example of both these
principles. The family derives from three well-to-do brothers who arrived in
New Orleans from Paris in the late 1700's. The French that their descendents
speak remains pretty much the same 18th century "court" French they brought
with them and not the prevalent Cajun French of the area, which the
Acadian's brought with them to South Louisiana from Nova Scotia, then
*******ized with Spanish and English into a patois that is unique to the
region. The result is that speaking French with someone from Quebec today is
more like speaking to a family member than to an Acadian/Cajun.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 12/29/03

"Glen" wrote in message
There is a principle in linguistics, simply stated, that languages tend to
differentiate as they are isolated. Since the colonists were separated
from
their English speaking cousins across the pond there tended to be a
differentiation in the pronunciation. This is seen in other languages as
well, re Old World Spanish, with the lisp, and New World Spanish without
the
lisp)

Interestingly enough, there is a secondary principle which states that if
a
language group is so isolated so that it is not touched by other
linguistic
influences, the language can tend to become static. The deep dialect in
some areas of Tennessee, for example, is the closest surviving remmnant to
Elizabethan English. It is one of the few areas where words such as neer
(as in neer do well), nary, and poke (rather than a bag or a sack) are
still
in common usage. This dialect has been preserved in the more isolated
regions where until fairly recently there was little or no outside the
area
contact, and now it is generally used primarily by old timers. There are
several projects underway by several universities to record and save the
speech patterns for future study.

The talk around here regarding "healthy forests initiatives" is "no
forests, no forest fires". Obvious. Pa-dum-dum.
mahalo,
jo4hn

jo4hn writes:


The talk around here regarding "healthy forests initiatives" is "no
forests, no forest fires". Obvious. Pa-dum-dum.

Makes sense. In California. But what about the spotted owls?

Charlie Self
"If you want to know what God thinks of money, just look at the people he gave
it to. " Dorothy Parker

http://hometown.aol.com/charliediy/m.../business.html

"Go NY Giants They Stink, Go Anyway!!" wrote in message
...
this group is full of assholes who probably dont even own a hammer.

I for one am an Asshole tm. Asshole #93 to be exact. (See
rec.motorcyles.harley) And yes, I do own a hammer. Infact I own many
hammers. I need to count them.
1. 20 oz vauhan framing hammer w/steel handle
2. 22 oz vauhan framing hammer w/wooden handle
3. Stanley 25 oz framing hammer w/wooden handle
4. 5 stanley 16oz finish hammers (I often loose them, buy and find the one
I lost)
5. (2) 22oz stanley smooth face wood handle hammers.
6. (2) 6 lb sledge hammers
7. 3lb wood mallat
8. 2lb rubber mallet
9. 22 oz stilletto titanium hammer (unused)
10. 3lb mini sledge

Total - 16 hammers

Hope this helps.
SH

On 31-Dec-2003, "Swingman" wrote:

The result is that speaking French with someone from Quebec today is
more like speaking to a family member than to an Acadian/Cajun.

Does (did) your family speak with sibilant French like the modern
Quebecois? That is what most noticibly distinquishes the sound of
Quebec French from modern European French.

Example: Mardi Gras in Europe would be pronounced mardee grah
whereas in Quebec as mardzee grah.

Mike

On Wed 31 Dec 2003 12:04:58p, "Slowhand" I'm@work wrote in
:

Total - 16 hammers

What? Not even one Clown Hammer? Jeez.

Dan

Charlie Self wrote:

jo4hn writes:


The talk around here regarding "healthy forests initiatives" is "no
forests, no forest fires". Obvious. Pa-dum-dum.


Makes sense. In California. But what about the spotted owls?

Charlie Self
"If you want to know what God thinks of money, just look at the people he gave
it to. " Dorothy Parker

http://hometown.aol.com/charliediy/m.../business.html

Guess that's what taxidermists are for...
j4

Dan said:

On Wed 31 Dec 2003 12:04:58p, "Slowhand" I'm@work wrote in
:

Total - 16 hammers

What? Not even one Clown Hammer? Jeez.

I think he lost it when impaling the head of STEMO, and it wandered
back to NYC.


Greg G.

Not really ... it is more a case of similar dialects. The French our family
speaks, especially the old folks in their 80's +, was closer to Québecois
than to Francais Acadien, but with much less English influence on
vocabluarly and syntax.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 12/29/03


"Michael Daly" wrote in message
On 31-Dec-2003, "Swingman" wrote:

The result is that speaking French with someone from Quebec today is
more like speaking to a family member than to an Acadian/Cajun.

Does (did) your family speak with sibilant French like the modern
Quebecois? That is what most noticibly distinquishes the sound of
Quebec French from modern European French.

Example: Mardi Gras in Europe would be pronounced mardee grah
whereas in Quebec as mardzee grah.

Mike

Wed, Dec 31, 2003, 12:02am (EST-3)
(Fly-by-Night=A0CC) says:
snip Yes, when I moved to northern Virginia at about 5 years old, from
California, I developed a deeply "Southern" accent, anip

Few years back went north for my Dad's funeral. Everyone was
amazed at my "sourthern" accent. ???. Down here, first time someone
hears me, it's usually, "You aren't from around here".

JOAT
Success consists of going from failure to failure without loss of
enthusiasm.
- Sir Winston Churchill

Life just ain't life without good music. - JOAT
Web Page Update 29 Dec 2003.
Some tunes I like.
http://community-2.webtv.net/Jakofal...OMETUNESILIKE/

Wed, Dec 31, 2003, 4:36am (EST-3) (Hylourgos) says:
snip it's been my understanding that a NC location has (had) the
closest dialect to Elizabethan snip

I'm not originally from NC. Retired here out of the Army, in '81.
Never been to Harker's Island. Grew up hearing words like that, and
still use 'em.

Now if I could just remember if that was 1981, or 1881?



JOAT
Success consists of going from failure to failure without loss of
enthusiasm.
- Sir Winston Churchill

Life just ain't life without good music. - JOAT
Web Page Update 29 Dec 2003.
Some tunes I like.
http://community-2.webtv.net/Jakofal...OMETUNESILIKE/

JOAT writes:

I'm not originally from NC. Retired here out of the Army, in '81.
Never been to Harker's Island. Grew up hearing words like that, and
still use 'em.

Now if I could just remember if that was 1981, or 1881?

Check your hands and feet. If you see bones with no skin, it was 1881.

Charlie Self
"If you want to know what God thinks of money, just look at the people he gave
it to. " Dorothy Parker

http://hometown.aol.com/charliediy/m.../business.html

JOAT writes:

Few years back went north for my Dad's funeral. Everyone was
amazed at my "sourthern" accent. ???. Down here, first time someone
hears me, it's usually, "You aren't from around here".

Amazing, isn't it? I've been out of NY for more than 26 years, but people who
listen can immediately tell I'm a former New Yorker (like the Marines, NY
doesn't have any ex added to it). And I never thougth I had a NY accent, at
least not like my buddies in the Bronx and Brooklyn.

Charlie Self
"If you want to know what God thinks of money, just look at the people he gave
it to. " Dorothy Parker

http://hometown.aol.com/charliediy/m.../business.html

On Mon, 29 Dec 2003 22:45:04 -0800, Fly-by-Night CC
scribbled:

In article ,
otforme (Charlie Self) wrote:

Possibly. I do wonder if anyone, anywhere in the English speaking world,

OK, I've had a question rattling around in my noggin' (note proper use
of an apostrophe to indicate a missing letter) for quite some time now...

At what point did we U.S.-ians and Canady-ites lose the Brit accent?
Which ones? The Southrons, who still don't pronounce their "r"s like
the southern English? The New Englanders & Maritimers who apparently
sound like they're from Lincolnshire? The Newfoundlanders who either
sound Irish (in the Avalon peninsula) or like the West country. Or the
generalized accent found around the Great Lakes and in California?

And the Brits used to have a gazillion accents that depended not only
on geography but also on social class. So which Brit accent?

Australia still has theirs,
Although they all sound the same to us, the Strines will jump on you
for that one. IIRC, the typical "Strine" accent comes from London
Cockney.

some folks in India still have theirs.
But most have a distinctive Indian accent.

What/who influenced the changeover to American English and accent versus
the Brittish (Proper?) English and accent?

Apparently, the northern North American accents stems from where most
of the original immigrants came from, apparently Lincolnshire for New
England, a mix of all kinds of influences for the mid-Atlantic states
which spread to the US Midwest (and Quebec and Ontario through the
Loyalists).

Did the New World-born and
raised colonists of, say 1776, sound American or Brittish? When did the
transition take place and over how long a period of time?

Please, please, will someone answer my queries - the rattling is tooo
damn loud and is driving me crazy! Crazy I tell ya, CRAZY!

Languages evolve, and English evolved differently in Britain than in
North America. We keep some 17th century archaisms (e.g. "gotten"
instead of "got"), the Brits kept others.

Luigi
Replace "no" with "yk" for real email address

On Wed, 31 Dec 2003 02:31:56 -0500, Silvan
scribbled:

At what point did we U.S.-ians and Canady-ites lose the Brit accent?

Like everyone already said, we didn't. We more or less still have it.

If you listen to the BBC as much as I do, you'll appreciate how reasonable
it seems to believe this too. It just seems to me like they've gone out of
their way to speak in a stilted, affectatious manner. Probably something
similar to the Spanish lithp on C/Z.

The Castilian lithp is for real. Most people in Spain, whether they
are native Castilian speakers or not pronounce it that way. It's not
an affectation. I know, I was married to a Spanish woman (Catalan
actually) and knew many Spaniards in Montreal and have been to Spain a
couple of times. That's how I learned the language. I have the lithp
and an Italian accent (in Spanish), which definitely improves the
language. Anyway, Spanish, like French, is just mispronounced Italian
with bad grammar.

"Vital" and "vitamin" come from the same root, the Latin /vita/. (WEEtah or
VEEtah, depending on your preferred butchery of Latin.) It makes sense to
me that whatever vowel shifts made to those two words would be the same.
In the US, we say "VIE-tal" and "VIE-ta-min." The Latin long I "EE" has
changed to the the English long I "eye," and it's the same in both, as
expected. So why, then, do the Brits say "VIE-tal" and "VIT-a-min?" Why
the short I in "vitamin?"

I would suspect that vital was part of English before the great vowel
shift, while vitamin is a recent coinage. I think the English
generally tend to respect the original pronunciation [why does it drop
the "o"?] in foreign words, witness "tomahto" vs "tomayto".

I only play a linguist on TV, and I can't begin to get into the guts of this
kind of thing. I'm just saying my instinct tells me the explanation that
our dialect is more similar to Elizabethan English than the dialect spoken
in the UK today just feels right.

There is a great book on English, titled something like "The Story of
English". It is based on a BBC series. I have been looking for it all
day, but I can't find it. I couldn't find it on the web either. My
friend Doug probably still has it. (OBWW - Doug is a journeyman
cabinetmaker, Yukon Interprovincial Journeyman Cabinetmaker
Certificate #001) It answers most of the questions that have been
posed on this thread.

Luigi
Replace "no" with "yk" for real email address

Fly-by-Night CC wrote:

Now those Southern belles... or the Scottish lasses...

Just as long as they don't speak Hee Haw.

--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/

On Wed, 31 Dec 2003 20:30:40 GMT, Charlie Self wrote:

jo4hn writes:

The talk around here regarding "healthy forests initiatives" is "no
forests, no forest fires". Obvious. Pa-dum-dum.

Makes sense. In California. But what about the spotted owls?

Course #2 of a 7-course dinner?


----------------------------------------------------------
Please return Stewardess to her original upright position.
--------------------------------------
http://www.diversify.com Tagline-based T-shirts!

Luigi Zanasi wrote:

The Castilian lithp is for real. Most people in Spain, whether they
are native Castilian speakers or not pronounce it that way. It's not
an affectation. I know, I was married to a Spanish woman (Catalan

I know too. I majored in Spanish. I learned how to speak /castellano/
instead of the usual generic "American blend" dialect taught in school. I
even had some Colombian people convinced that I was Spanish for awhile.
Hell, I might even have a better Spanish accent than you do, sincea I'ma
notta corrupting it witha alla de eye-taliana soundsa.

(Your language sounds weird to me. Too slow, and weird cadence. Must be
all the good looking women and cheap wine.)

I've never bothered to research this, but I've always been told that some
high figure or other, a king or other noble, had a lisp. People sucked up
to him, as people are wont to do, and adopted the lisp. Hence I call it
affectatious. I don't dispute that that's how /castellano/ is spoken. We
both know a great many people in Spain actually speak /catalá/, and I don't
*think* it has a similar sort of lisp.

I could be completely wrong. As I said, I've never bothered to research it,
and I have only anecdotal evidence.

language. Anyway, Spanish, like French, is just mispronounced Italian
with bad grammar.

Mispronounced Latin with bad grammar, more like it. Just like Italian.

(I wish I knew more about Vulgar Latin. Spanish, French, Italian, etc. all
have remarkably simlar grammar, but it's also decidedly different when
compared to Latin. There has to have been a common thread, and the Latin I
learned in school sure wasn't it. Not directly anyway. No way all those
different people would get rid of traditional Latin conventions in exactly
the same way.)

I would suspect that vital was part of English before the great vowel
shift, while vitamin is a recent coinage. I think the English
generally tend to respect the original pronunciation [why does it drop
the "o"?] in foreign words, witness "tomahto" vs "tomayto".

Bah, blah, bleah, whatever. "VIT-amin" makes them all sound queer.

--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/

Silvan wrote:

Fly-by-Night CC wrote:


Now those Southern belles... or the Scottish lasses...


Just as long as they don't speak Hee Haw.



You don't like Hee Haws and a Crop across your ass to get it moving?



--
--

Mark

N.E. Ohio


Never argue with a fool, a bystander can't tell you apart. (S. Clemens,
A.K.A. Mark Twain)

When in doubt hit the throttle. It may not help but it sure ends the
suspense. (Gaz, r.moto)

A northern girl says "you can."

A southern girl says "you all can."

What's wrong with that?

"Silvan" wrote in message
...
Fly-by-Night CC wrote:

Now those Southern belles... or the Scottish lasses...

Just as long as they don't speak Hee Haw.

Luigi Zanasi wrote:
Which ones? The Southrons, who still don't pronounce their "r"s like
the southern English? The New Englanders & Maritimers who apparently
sound like they're from Lincolnshire? The Newfoundlanders who either
sound Irish (in the Avalon peninsula) or like the West country.

I grew up on a priory run by English monks (no really, I
did) and one day it dawned on me that "they" talked like
"they" were from the south. "They" didn't think "they"
sounded at all like southern 'Muricans.

Or the generalized accent found around the Great Lakes and in California?

Hey dere whadda ya mean dere eh?

UA100

Silvan responds:


(Your language sounds weird to me. Too slow, and weird cadence. Must be
all the good looking women and cheap wine.)

I took Italian in college because I spent maybe 6-7 formative years in an
Italian-Irish neighborhood. Mostly, though, I had learned to cuss in a second
language and heard a lot of women say, "Mangia, mangia...you too skinny!"

Wish I could hear the same today.

Charlie Self
"If you want to know what God thinks of money, just look at the people he gave
it to. " Dorothy Parker

http://hometown.aol.com/charliediy/m.../business.html

Charlie Self wrote:

Italian-Irish neighborhood. Mostly, though, I had learned to cuss in a
second language and heard a lot of women say, "Mangia, mangia...you too
skinny!"

Wish I could hear the same today.

You too skinny!

Feel better?

I suppose not.

I would have taken eye-talian myself, but it was never offered anywhere I
went to school. My first choice was Russian. Never offered in high school
or college. Then German. Offered only in college. Then Spanish. So I
started with Spanish, then took French and Latin for kicks. Eight, six and
four years respectively.

--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/

On Wed, 31 Dec 2003 00:02:31 -0800, Fly-by-Night CC
brought forth from the murky depths:

If the preceding is true, it's probably more accurate to say that the
Brits *gained* an accent, rather than we lost one.

Fascinating. Truly. I had no idea and assumed the Brittish "always"
spoke with a Brittish accent.

The British have two teas, Owie. One in their bloomin' name, and
one in their bloody cup. Y'all 'member that, y'hear?



---
After they make styrofoam, what do they ship it in? --Steven Wright
http://diversify.com Comprehensive Website Development

In article ,
Larry Jaques wrote:

On Wed, 31 Dec 2003 00:02:31 -0800, Fly-by-Night CC
brought forth from the murky depths:

If the preceding is true, it's probably more accurate to say that the
Brits *gained* an accent, rather than we lost one.

Fascinating. Truly. I had no idea and assumed the Brittish "always"
spoke with a Brittish accent.

The British have two teas, Owie. One in their bloomin' name, and
one in their bloody cup. Y'all 'member that, y'hear?

Yeah, I got itt. Won'tt happen again Mistter Jaques.

Whatt'd you go an' do - change yer "from" address again? How do you
expectt me to keep you killfiled if'n you keep changin' itt?

--
Owen Lowe and his Fly-by-Night Copper Company
Offering a shim for the Porter-Cable 557 type 2 fence design.
http://www.flybynightcoppercompany.com
http://www.easystreet.com/~onlnlowe/index.html

On Fri, 02 Jan 2004 01:28:15 -0800, Fly-by-Night CC
brought forth from the murky depths:

In article ,
Larry Jaques wrote:

On Wed, 31 Dec 2003 00:02:31 -0800, Fly-by-Night CC
brought forth from the murky depths:

If the preceding is true, it's probably more accurate to say that the
Brits *gained* an accent, rather than we lost one.

Fascinating. Truly. I had no idea and assumed the Brittish "always"
spoke with a Brittish accent.

The British have two teas, Owie. One in their bloomin' name, and
one in their bloody cup. Y'all 'member that, y'hear?

Yeah, I got itt. Won'tt happen again Mistter Jaques.

Y'mean _after_ you get your new keyboard?


Whatt'd you go an' do - change yer "from" address again? How do you
expectt me to keep you killfiled if'n you keep changin' itt?

Yeah, I had to turn off the last one after the spammers got it.


---
After they make styrofoam, what do they ship it in? --Steven Wright
http://diversify.com Comprehensive Website Development

In article ,
Andy Dingley wrote:
On 28 Dec 2003 06:58:17 GMT, otforme (Charlie Self)
wrote:
Possibly. I do wonder if anyone, anywhere in the English speaking world,
bothers to teach the difference between plurals and possessives any more.

Amazon UK's #1 bestseller this Christmas was the book
"Eats, Shoots & Leaves:
The Zero Tolerance Approach to Punctuation "
http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/1861976127/codesmiths

I don't think it's available from Amazon US

I don't see it listed on the Amazon US web site. However our Raleigh,
North Carolina newspaper had a recent article about this book.
--
--henry schaffer
hes _AT_ ncsu _DOT_ edu