I think your reluctance to accept my terms speak more to your inability
to be mature and sensible. You dropped the ball.

dave

Scott Cramer wrote:

On 19 Nov 2003, Bay Area Dave spake unto rec.woodworking:


hmm... you only cursed once. I think that's a record, Scotty! I will
not limit my posts, but feel free to respond to only three of mine per
day, with serious responses to serious WW questions. We can both skip
all the OT bs and make EVERYONE happier in the process.

So, meet me half way? That's the deal. Ball's in your court.


Sorry, Dave. It's your diarrhea of the mouth, in conjunction with
constipation of the brain, that's at the heart of the issue.

It's only for two weeks. Can't even bear the thought of it, can you?



On 19 Nov 2003, Bay Area Dave spake unto rec.woodworking:



Scott, you never cease to amaze me with your venom. Have you tried
therapy to deal with your anger? I feel a limerick about to be
born...

There once was a crackpot named Scott
Who wasn't as smart as he thought
For always he demeaned others
Knew not the meaning of "brothers"
Will his vitriol ever stop?


Uh, Dave, that link goes back to June, when you were
flapping your
gums about things of which you knew even less than you do now.
There's no vitriol there, just a bit of pointed humor.

Here's a dare for you. I dare you to post no more than
three times a
day for two weeks. I guarantee that if you put a bit more thought
into your posts, actually THINKING about your questions a bit before
flooding the NG with them, you would see far fewer responses of an
insulting nature. It is the incessant chatter, pointless blather,
and useless responses to countless threads that fuels my desire to
dope-slap you all the time.

Absence makes the heart grow fonder.

Familiarity breeds contempt.

Think you can do it? Three times a day, for two weeks.
Shut your
yap and listen instead of reporting every stupid goddamn thing you do
all day long. The only responses you'll get from me will be of a
serious, helpful nature. For two weeks, at least.

Scott

ah, Scott I either post a newbie woodworking question, offer an honest
opinion, or make my perhaps pathetic attempts to be funny. I cringe
whenever I see your name show up, as you never act decently. I will
attack back from time to time, but I don't start the mudslinging. I
might give a smart answer response from time to time, but never initiate
the mean-spirited personal attacks such as you do on a persistent basis.
Am I going to have to put you back in my filter list? I've removed
all the miscreants for the time being, but I don't have time for this OT
crap. Talk wood related issues please, or talk to yourself.

dave

Scott Cramer wrote:

On 19 Nov 2003, Rob Stokes spake unto rec.woodworking:


Scott:

I know BAD get's "into it" with several, but I also have learned to
appreciate his on-topic posts. I can't remember much about your on-topic
posting. Care to remind me before I make the "tank/don't tank" decision?


I will readily confess that the last few days have seen an orgy of
BAD bashing. And I will also confess to offering smartass remarks in about
a 3:1 ratio with useful advice. But I do indeed help when I have something
to offer.

For sheer volume of posts, BAD has no peers. Consider the numbers,
look at the chaff:wheat proportions, and then explain why he shouldn't take
me up on the dare!

Scott

On Wed, 19 Nov 2003 19:26:38 GMT, BEELZEBUBBA yacked:

I will attack back from time to time, but I don't start the mudslinging.

Now, THAT was funny.

OBWW: Put a cork in it.


Regards, Tom
Thomas J. Watson-Cabinetmaker
Gulph Mills, Pennsylvania
http://users.snip.net/~tjwatson

On 19 Nov 2003, Bay Area Dave spake unto rec.woodworking:

ah, Scott I either post a newbie woodworking question, offer an honest
opinion, or make my perhaps pathetic attempts to be funny.

And you do all those things, all the time. Why do think you get the
"I had bananas on my cereal" and "how'd the corn come out?" responses from
others here? It's because you post responses whether you have anything to
say or not. And it's usually not.

I dared you to keep it to three posts a day, because, on the average,
that's how many posts of any real value you DO post in a day.

I cringe
whenever I see your name show up, as you never act decently. I will
attack back from time to time, but I don't start the mudslinging. I
might give a smart answer response from time to time, but never
initiate the mean-spirited personal attacks such as you do on a
persistent basis.

I grew up in New England, as has everyone on both sides of my family
for generations. We are a taciturn lot. Needless yammering sets my teeth
on edge. It is not in my nature to suffer fools gladly.
I only pick on you when you are being an asshole. If it seems like
I'm always picking on you, draw your own conclusion.

Am I going to have to put you back in my filter list? I've removed
all the miscreants for the time being, but I don't have time for this
OT crap. Talk wood related issues please, or talk to yourself.

Dave. Think about it. Your fascination with the twit list one of
the things the rest of us laugh *about*. If you **** me off, I respond
primarily for the amusement of others who share my assessment of you. If
you see it and go off on a whining jag, it's that much more amusing.

I dare you again.

Two weeks, no more than three posts a day. Have you got that much
self-control? Surprise us.

Scott

Leon wrote:
Which brings up another point, the valve itself would probably work pretty
well for putting a burr on a scraper. Valves are normally quite hard.

Valves fork very nicely, and the stem is very hard steel. It also has
that nice end that works for a handle. %-)

Dave in Fairfax
--
reply-to doesn't work
use:
daveldr at att dot net

"Caractacus Potts" wrote in message
igy.com...

I guess I could skip the $18 burnishing tool when I get a set or
"real"
scrapers? BTW what's the difference between a scraper that is labeled
a
scraper and a scraper that I "made"?

1. Better cachet
2. Edge will last longer
3. Both one and two
4. None of the above


dave


Screw drivers work fine. Go to the flea market and get an old saw that
someone ruined by painting a mill scene on. Cut a scraper out of the
steel and go to town. You'll probably have better steel in there than
what's in your putty knife. You can also cut shapes to match any
profile that you need.


Be careful what saw from the flea market you wind up chopping into little
pieces. On another list I subscribe to, a recent "find" by a member
(painted "scene" notwithstanding") turned out to be a very rare handsaw.
Even cleaned up and refurbished it would still be worth a couple thousand
dollars. Ain't no scraper in the world that can make that claim to fame.
Now I'm checking every saw I see looking for the vintage Disstons and
others.

If, OTOH, the blade is rusty and bent and it has a broken bakelite handle or
is otherwise obvious junque, then your solution is perfect.

Jon E

I didn't read the dare, and don't intend to. It's all white noise.

I broke a drill bit today....it was a pilot bit for a drill/countersink
combo. Serves me right for not "cleaning" it as I was running the pilot hole
in the pine hutch I'm building. why does this matter? This is the first
"thing" I've built since packing up the shop almost a year and a half ago.
It's been so long, woodworking almost feel foreign...almost, but not quite.
I'm learning it's like a bike...it's all coming back to me.

I did manage to remember the first law of woodworking though...."Never build
a project for which you have all the right tools". I'm now the proud owner
of a 1/2" round over bit (I'm sure I had one, but can't find it after the
move) from Lee Valley.... SWMBO's remembering how to shake her head.

BTW...you're not tanked g!

Rob

--

Remove CC for email and please visit our web site:
http://www.robswoodworking.com



"Scott Cramer" wrote in message
7.53...
On 19 Nov 2003, Rob Stokes spake unto rec.woodworking:

Scott:

I know BAD get's "into it" with several, but I also have learned to
appreciate his on-topic posts. I can't remember much about your on-topic
posting. Care to remind me before I make the "tank/don't tank" decision?

I will readily confess that the last few days have seen an orgy of
BAD bashing. And I will also confess to offering smartass remarks in
about
a 3:1 ratio with useful advice. But I do indeed help when I have
something
to offer.

For sheer volume of posts, BAD has no peers. Consider the numbers,
look at the chaff:wheat proportions, and then explain why he shouldn't
take
me up on the dare!

Scott

So who's the mechanic?


"Groggy" wrote in message
s.com...

"CW" wrote in message ...
Buy several. You'd be surprised how handy they are. Ground to size
(diameter) to within .0002. Great for mesuring.


Anyone who professes to be, or have been, a mechanic must have a dozen
suitable extension bars,

"CW" wrote in message
news:u0Yub.193065$275.711399@attbi_s53...
So who's the mechanic?


BAD was an auto mechanic for around 16yrs http://tinyurl.com/vsg1

Given that information, and a reasonable assumption that he would retain
expensive tools he purchased, such as Snap-On, it would be more than fair to
expect a socket set or two would be floating around.

Hence my statement:

"Anyone who professes to be, or have been, a mechanic must have a dozen
suitable extension bars, wrenches or ratchets with handles suitable for the
job. Otherwise the guide roller out of a printer will do the job. Any normal
house should have at least a dozen suitable items laying around. Thing is,
you need to go look first."

Unless you have super hard scrapers, household items can be used to roll an
edge, even the back of an old kitchen knife.

If my post seemed a little blunt, perhaps its because this thread has taken
48 posts total (13 from BAD himself) to figure out the difference 'between a
scraper that is labelled a scraper and a scraper that I "made"?'. Google has
plenty of info on this, LV catalogs have some info, books have this info,
but instead of typing 'scraper' into Google and returning over 6000 hits he
trolled the group - again.

regards,

Greg

"Rob Stokes" wrote in message
s.com...
I didn't read the dare, and don't intend to. It's all white noise.

I broke a drill bit today....it was a pilot bit for a drill/countersink
combo. Serves me right for not "cleaning" it as I was running the pilot
hole
in the pine hutch I'm building. why does this matter? This is the first
"thing" I've built since packing up the shop almost a year and a half ago.
It's been so long, woodworking almost feel foreign...almost, but not
quite.
I'm learning it's like a bike...it's all coming back to me.

I did manage to remember the first law of woodworking though...."Never
build
a project for which you have all the right tools". I'm now the proud owner
of a 1/2" round over bit (I'm sure I had one, but can't find it after the
move) from Lee Valley.... SWMBO's remembering how to shake her head.

Rob,

What are you using for a shop now? Leaving the Taj Mahal must've been
painful, but I missed the bit where you got a new shop, any details?

cheers,

Greg

Yes, CW, I've got plenty of Snap On tools. I see Greg is babbling again
about me "professing" to have been a mechanic. That's the case.
Extensions are as rough as the screwdriver shank that I was told isn't
as good as a "real" burnisher, due in part to it's roughness. Sounds
like Greg has his own ideas about what makes for a suitable substitute.

If any other poster says "A", and Gregg says "B", who do you think I'll
listen to?

Besides we've concluded I'll get a "real" burnisher...

I'm all for letting this thread die, BTW..

dave

CW wrote:
So who's the mechanic?


"Groggy" wrote in message
s.com...

"CW" wrote in message ...

Buy several. You'd be surprised how handy they are. Ground to size
(diameter) to within .0002. Great for mesuring.


Anyone who professes to be, or have been, a mechanic must have a dozen
suitable extension bars,

On Thu, 20 Nov 2003 06:23:41 GMT, "Groggy"
wrote:

If my post seemed a little blunt, perhaps its because this thread has taken
48 posts total (13 from BAD himself) to figure out the difference 'between a
scraper that is labelled a scraper and a scraper that I "made"?'. Google has
plenty of info on this, LV catalogs have some info, books have this info,
but instead of typing 'scraper' into Google and returning over 6000 hits he
trolled the group - again.

Google it, Google it, Google it!! Man I get sick of reading that. I
guess my personal filters (the ones behind my eyes) work pretty good.
If a thread seems stupid or of no interest to me I just skip it. If a
poster says something dumb I just ignore it - I've said more than my
share of dumb stuff. But for those of you who can't do either, let me
chime in as someone who's been around on this group for quite a few
years and who has many years experience as a carpenter and a few as a
"real" woodworker. I appreciate stupid questions, even ones that have
been answered a hundred times before, because they are often things
that either inform me, inspire me or caution me. BAD posted a
reasonable, on-topic, question that has engendered a lot of
interesting and informative comment (mixed in with some truly stupid
attacks on him). I have learned from this thread, and would never have
bothered to Google any of it. If you come right down to it you can
probably find out just about anything we discuss in here with some
appropriate research, but sometimes it is easier to just holler and
see what others think about it. If you don't feel like answering just
ignore it!

So, Dave, keep asking the questions, and if you act like a twit at
times I'll just ignore that, you've got a lot of company in that
regard, here and in the rest of the world.

Tim Douglass

http://www.DouglassClan.com

Thanks for the kinds words, Tim! I know I can at times be less than
"politically correct" with my bluntness, but I would hope that the vast
majority of my posts are on topic and cover a lot of newbie issues, as
that's what I am at this point. I'm slow and methodical (and forgetful
sometimes -- like drawer bottoms g), so I haven't got a lot of
projects under my belt yet, but what I've done so far has met my high
expectations, with a few little flubs here and there. I'm learning from
my mistakes, and more to the point, I'm learning from the kindness of
others here on the Wreck to point in the right direction so often by
sharing their collective and vast knowledge.

If everyone Googled all the time, what would they be Googling if there
were no original content created on the newsgroups???

I'm guilty of acting like a "twit" at times as you've stated, but I hope
on balance, I am receptive to learning and might once in a blue moon
provide a meager bit of helpful information or at least provoke someone
to chime in to answer someone's questions.

Don't worry, Tim, I'll keep asking questions!

dave



Tim Douglass wrote:

On Thu, 20 Nov 2003 06:23:41 GMT, "Groggy"
wrote:


If my post seemed a little blunt, perhaps its because this thread has taken
48 posts total (13 from BAD himself) to figure out the difference 'between a
scraper that is labelled a scraper and a scraper that I "made"?'. Google has
plenty of info on this, LV catalogs have some info, books have this info,
but instead of typing 'scraper' into Google and returning over 6000 hits he
trolled the group - again.


Google it, Google it, Google it!! Man I get sick of reading that. I
guess my personal filters (the ones behind my eyes) work pretty good.
If a thread seems stupid or of no interest to me I just skip it. If a
poster says something dumb I just ignore it - I've said more than my
share of dumb stuff. But for those of you who can't do either, let me
chime in as someone who's been around on this group for quite a few
years and who has many years experience as a carpenter and a few as a
"real" woodworker. I appreciate stupid questions, even ones that have
been answered a hundred times before, because they are often things
that either inform me, inspire me or caution me. BAD posted a
reasonable, on-topic, question that has engendered a lot of
interesting and informative comment (mixed in with some truly stupid
attacks on him). I have learned from this thread, and would never have
bothered to Google any of it. If you come right down to it you can
probably find out just about anything we discuss in here with some
appropriate research, but sometimes it is easier to just holler and
see what others think about it. If you don't feel like answering just
ignore it!

So, Dave, keep asking the questions, and if you act like a twit at
times I'll just ignore that, you've got a lot of company in that
regard, here and in the rest of the world.

Tim Douglass

http://www.DouglassClan.com

You were told correctly and you are right in getting the best tool for the
job.


"Bay Area Dave" wrote in message
. com...
Yes, CW, I've got plenty of Snap On tools. I see Greg is babbling again
about me "professing" to have been a mechanic. That's the case.
Extensions are as rough as the screwdriver shank that I was told isn't
as good as a "real" burnisher, due in part to it's roughness. Sounds
like Greg has his own ideas about what makes for a suitable substitute.

If any other poster says "A", and Gregg says "B", who do you think I'll
listen to?

Besides we've concluded I'll get a "real" burnisher...

I'm all for letting this thread die, BTW..

dave

CW wrote:
So who's the mechanic?


"Groggy" wrote in message
s.com...

"CW" wrote in message ...

Buy several. You'd be surprised how handy they are. Ground to size
(diameter) to within .0002. Great for mesuring.


Anyone who professes to be, or have been, a mechanic must have a dozen
suitable extension bars,

"CW" wrote in message ...
You were told correctly and you are right in getting the best tool for the
job.

Correct, get the 'right' tool, something appropriate for the task. For
anyone who hasn't closed their minds though, the best tool for the job (a
"real" burnisher) is one that turns the edge by the desired amount. That can
be anything from the chrome on the bumper of a car, a valve stem, hammer
handle (steel hammer of course) a kitchen knife or a LV burnisher - perhaps
even a 'dowel pin'.

Just because an item is sold as a 'burnisher' does not exclude the use of
anything else that provides a perfectly acceptable finish to the edge -
perhaps even superior.

Tim,

I have read a lot of your posts over the years and respect your views. I
also respect the right of people to ask 'dumb' questions, I learn a lot from
them too. I normally do not tell others to do a google search unless they
don't appear to know about it.

Let me clarify my post, I was referring to Dave specifically because of the
volume of posting he does. That many questions should demand some
forethought, if only as a simple act of consideration to the group.

At some point though, I think we should help those who help themselves a
little. By all means ask questions, but if you intend to ask hundreds of
them, please do some research first.

The key to the issue lies in your own statement

"...sometimes it is easier to just holler and see what others think about
it."

Again, sure, we all do that, human nature at work. After a few hundred posts
by the same person, it is also human nature to say "ok, enough", please do
some research yourself, then, if still stuck, ask away.

regards,

Greg



"Tim Douglass" wrote in message:
Google it, Google it, Google it!! Man I get sick of reading that. I
snip
If you come right down to it you can
probably find out just about anything we discuss in here with some
appropriate research, but sometimes it is easier to just holler and
see what others think about it. If you don't feel like answering just
ignore it!

So, Dave, keep asking the questions, and if you act like a twit at
times I'll just ignore that, you've got a lot of company in that
regard, here and in the rest of the world.

Tim Douglass

http://www.DouglassClan.com

On Fri, 21 Nov 2003 05:49:01 GMT, "Groggy"
wrote:

Let me clarify my post, I was referring to Dave specifically because of the
volume of posting he does. That many questions should demand some
forethought, if only as a simple act of consideration to the group.

In principle, I agree. In practice it doesn't bother me. I have 4
sons, ages 7-14, so I'm pretty good at filtering. I deal with people
almost 24/7, so I do a lot of it there as well. I guess the only type
of posts that really register with me any more are either the ones
with content or the ones with vitriol. The first because I want to
learn (or possibly help), the second because they offend me. I hadn't
ever considered Dave a high-volume poster, but it may be because I
haven't noticed who is writing what. Most of the time on this group I
read the messages without worrying about who wrote them, and since I
just hit 'next' if it seems like a pointless rant or petty bickering
those things really don't register.

Technology helps. I use the Agent newsreader, so my procedure is to
skim all the new thread titles and tag the ones that look interesting.
It will then retrieve all the messages in only those threads (and any
I have tagged previously) so I only see threads I'm interested in. If
It turns out to be of no interest I just un-tag it and it goes away.

I hope you realize that my previous rant wasn't aimed at you in
particular, you just happened to use the wrong phrase for my temper at
that particular moment.

At some point though, I think we should help those who help themselves a
little. By all means ask questions, but if you intend to ask hundreds of
them, please do some research first.

The key to the issue lies in your own statement

"...sometimes it is easier to just holler and see what others think about
it."

Again, sure, we all do that, human nature at work. After a few hundred posts
by the same person, it is also human nature to say "ok, enough", please do
some research yourself, then, if still stuck, ask away.

Kids are like that. After a while I tell them "look it up, that's why
we have 3 encyclopedias in this house". My personal Usenet equivalent
is to just not respond. Silence seems to me to do more to improve the
signal to noise ratio than telling someone to look it up, especially
since that almost always leads to off-topic arguing and rambling rants
like this one. I figure if no one answers the next time someone asks
"what is this hammer thing I got at a yard sale used for?" they will
give up here and actually go look it up.

Just to say *something* WW related, If all goes well I may get some
insulation and sheetrock in my shop tomorrow. That raises hope that by
Spring I may actually be able to use tools in it.

Tim Douglass

http://www.DouglassClan.com

On Fri, 21 Nov 2003 05:49:01 GMT, "Groggy"
wrote:

Let me clarify my post, I was referring to Dave specifically because of the
volume of posting he does. That many questions should demand some
forethought, if only as a simple act of consideration to the group.


There actually may be lurkers that may have the same questions that
Dave posts. Not to mention people who actually DAGS before asking and
are looking for the answer to one of BAD's "stupid" questions. By
posting it , Dave is actually creating a one-man archive.

If he posts too much, big deal. Learn to filter, or simply ignore
him. It's not like he changes his headers or attempts to disguise his
posts. He dosen't post binaries, so each post is what? 2k each? Even
if he posts 100 times a day, it's not like he'd even drag down a
modern dial-up over the course of a day.

It takes all kinds to make a world. If we were all the same, things
would get boring in a hurry.

Barry

"Tim Douglass" wrote in message ...
I hope you realize that my previous rant wasn't aimed at you in
particular, you just happened to use the wrong phrase for my temper at
that particular moment.

No problem, its pleasant to have a reasoned discussion and, as an aside, why
not get emotive if you believe in something. This place would be boring if
people didn't say what they thought (within reason of course).

OBWW: Cleanup and tidy time this weekend, I restored my father's
cabinetmaker's screwdriver (the sole surviving tool I have of his) and can't
believe the mess I made in doing so.

cheers,

Greg

"B a r r y B u r k e J r ." wrote:

On Fri, 21 Nov 2003 05:49:01 GMT, "Groggy"
wrote:

Let me clarify my post, I was referring to Dave specifically because of the
volume of posting he does. That many questions should demand some
forethought, if only as a simple act of consideration to the group.

There actually may be lurkers that may have the same questions that
Dave posts. Not to mention people who actually DAGS before asking and
are looking for the answer to one of BAD's "stupid" questions. By
posting it , Dave is actually creating a one-man archive.

If he posts too much, big deal. Learn to filter, or simply ignore
him. It's not like he changes his headers or attempts to disguise his
posts. He dosen't post binaries, so each post is what? 2k each? Even
if he posts 100 times a day, it's not like he'd even drag down a
modern dial-up over the course of a day.

It takes all kinds to make a world. If we were all the same, things
would get boring in a hurry.

Barry

Barry,

I have no problem with lurkers, most of the time I'm one myself. I do
try to help when I can, don't even mind BAD's questions, I was there, as
we all were, years ago on some of them too. I could really give a rip as
to what he might spend for a tool, if he's happy then I'm glad for him,
he has what he feels he wants/needs. What I DO mind is when he has taken
to lashing out on someone, without call as far as I could see. And this
has not been infrequent. I finally had to place his posts to where I
wouldn't see them unless one of the folks here responded, some of those
I'll read and others I won't. I just wish he would clean up his act and
then I would be more than happy to help him, IF he has done the proper
groundwork.

Two years ago I was looking to buy a new saw for my shop. I really was
looking at the Uni but the 66 was really where I wanted to go, thank god
Moma truck decided she needed a heart replacement, when she did,
instead. I DAGS on every source I could think of, this group being one,
settled on a 52" 64A and have never been happier, it's done what I've
asked and this group was a major part of my choice, the opinions on it
were invaluable. Runs a WWII full kerf, Freud SD-508 real sweet, even my
cheapass Sears molding head; ok you folks that want to go into "panic"
mode here..just take a breather..promise not to not make you run one
too. LOL! So when someone says "Do a DAGS" I am in total agreement. To
do/feel anything less and then I would have to place myself those
idicators that can't even teach our kids today..my kids are more than
well into their 30's and hope they learned better, so don't hit the old
fart too hard. :-)


Scott
--
An unkind remark is like a killing frost. No matter how much it warms
up later, the damage remains.