Would someone explain to me why 8/4 cost per boardfoot is
almost twice the cost of 4/4 per boardfoot? I don't under
stand how 4/4 oak is around $3.30 a boardfoot and an
8/4 is close to $7.00 a boardfoot. Rough cut in both
cases too.

Again, the measurements are in boardfoot so the
thickness shouldn't cost more on a boardfoot basis,

Otoe

Otoe wrote:

Would someone explain to me why 8/4 cost per boardfoot is
almost twice the cost of 4/4 per boardfoot? I don't under
stand how 4/4 oak is around $3.30 a boardfoot and an
8/4 is close to $7.00 a boardfoot. Rough cut in both
cases too.

Again, the measurements are in boardfoot so the
thickness shouldn't cost more on a boardfoot basis,

Otoe

2x per board foot seems a bit steep.

Steve Wall www.walllumber.com lists red oak 10" or more 4/4 at $3.20/BF
and 8/4 at $3.85/BF. Doesn't say if the 8/4 is the 10" or more, if not,
4/4 select is $2.70, so 8/4 is $1.15/BF more or $3.30/LF more than 4/4.
$3.85 vs. $2.70 is 42% higher. Maybe it's the supplier you are using


--
If you're going to be dumb, you better be tough

"Otoe" wrote in message
...
Would someone explain to me why 8/4 cost per boardfoot is
almost twice the cost of 4/4 per boardfoot? I don't under
stand how 4/4 oak is around $3.30 a boardfoot and an
8/4 is close to $7.00 a boardfoot. Rough cut in both
cases too.

Again, the measurements are in boardfoot so the
thickness shouldn't cost more on a boardfoot basis,

Otoe

Think of it this way, is a 4 carat diamond only double the price of a 2
carat diamond? The bigger it is, the more it costs and the increase in
price is a curve, not linear.

"Otoe" wrote:

Would someone explain to me why 8/4 cost per boardfoot is
almost twice the cost of 4/4 per boardfoot?

It's called the law of supply and demand.

Lew

Think of it this way, is a 4 carat diamond only double the price of a 2
carat diamond? The bigger it is, the more it costs and the increase in
price is a curve, not linear.

But that's assuming larger sizes are rarer. In the case of lumber,
shouldn't thicker boards require FEWER cuts, and therefore be cheaper
per bf? To a certain extent, of course - I understand that super wide
stuff is rare. I also understand that lumber prices vary a great deal
by location, but I don't know how that would affect 8/4 vs. 4/4
pricing.
Really I don't know much about lumber pricing and wood product
economics, just tossing out my ideas.

For something a little more concrete than ideas, I'll toss out the
link to my favorite lumber dealer, where bf prices for 8/4 are
generally $1 more than the 4/4 prices.
http://www.lakeshorehardwoods.com/LumberPricing.html
Oak, Peruvian walnut, and mahogany are the only species with a bigger
price disparity between 8/4 and 4/4, so maybe it's harder to find (or
to sell) 8/4 oak for some reason.

Andy

Tue, Dec 11, 2007, 10:14pm (EST-2)
(Mark*&*Juanita) doth sayeth:
snip Maybe it's the supplier you are using

Depends partly on what part of the country one is in too.



JOAT
I do things I don't know how to do, so that I might learn how to do
them.
- Picasso

"Andy" wrote in message
...
Think of it this way, is a 4 carat diamond only double the price of a 2
carat diamond? The bigger it is, the more it costs and the increase in
price is a curve, not linear.

But that's assuming larger sizes are rarer. In the case of lumber,
shouldn't thicker boards require FEWER cuts, and therefore be cheaper
per bf? To a certain extent, of course - I understand that super wide
stuff is rare. I also understand that lumber prices vary a great deal
by location, but I don't know how that would affect 8/4 vs. 4/4
pricing.
Really I don't know much about lumber pricing and wood product
economics, just tossing out my ideas.


Nor do I, but time is money. And it takes (a lot) more time to grow thicker
trees. If you cut thick lumber from smaller trees, you're going to get more
instability in the resulting lumber.

jc

In article , Otoe wrote:

Again, the measurements are in boardfoot so the
thickness shouldn't cost more on a boardfoot basis

It takes longer to dry 8/4 lumber. Time is money.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

"Andy" wrote in message
...
Think of it this way, is a 4 carat diamond only double the price of a 2
carat diamond? The bigger it is, the more it costs and the increase in
price is a curve, not linear.

But that's assuming larger sizes are rarer. In the case of lumber,
shouldn't thicker boards require FEWER cuts, and therefore be cheaper
per bf?


No! Diamonds do not have to be cut to be weighed in carats.

On Dec 12, 2:40 am, Andy wrote:
Think of it this way, is a 4 carat diamond only double the price of a 2
carat diamond? The bigger it is, the more it costs and the increase in
price is a curve, not linear.

But that's assuming larger sizes are rarer. In the case of lumber,
shouldn't thicker boards require FEWER cuts, and therefore be cheaper
per bf? To a certain extent, of course - I understand that super wide
stuff is rare. I also understand that lumber prices vary a great deal
by location, but I don't know how that would affect 8/4 vs. 4/4
pricing.
Really I don't know much about lumber pricing and wood product
economics, just tossing out my ideas.


The price is on a curve because a tree only gives up so many boards.
The wider, or thicker, the board, the fewer it gives up. Sure, there's
a tad less waste with thicker lumber, but there are also fewer 2x6s in
a log than there are 1x6s. The law of supply and demand for a tree
simply states that when you get fewer of an item out of a particular
basic material, you have to charge more per unit for that item.

That said, a few years ago, I lucked onto some 12/4 and 16/4 8" wide
cherry that has lasted me until recently...at a price that was
giveaway. Fortunately for me, the tree's owner didn't want the thick
boards, so the mill sold them to me for $75 (basically, a full-sized
pick-up load, with board ends almost dragging the ground all the way
home (3 miles). I never figured the board feet, but the shortest board
was 10' and the longest 13'. A guess gives me roughly 250 bf. The best
part: a LOT of flame cherry in that mess (also a LOT of scrap).

Otoe wrote in news:b5pul39seq9kbed5ff5vhfiak0gfnhips8@
4ax.com:

Would someone explain to me why 8/4 cost per boardfoot is
almost twice the cost of 4/4 per boardfoot?


Good question. Apparently, one of the mysteries of this life...

I'm hoping the Allah guy can help with this.

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

In article , Charlie Self wrote:

The price is on a curve because a tree only gives up so many boards.
The wider, or thicker, the board, the fewer it gives up. Sure, there's
a tad less waste with thicker lumber, but there are also fewer 2x6s in
a log than there are 1x6s. The law of supply and demand for a tree
simply states that when you get fewer of an item out of a particular
basic material, you have to charge more per unit for that item.

Well, yeah, but *that*much* more?

Interesting thing, though -- at the lumber supplier just up the road from me
http://www.northwestlumberco.com/domestic.php
the price premiums for 8/4 vs. 4/4 are 14% for ash, 25% for cherry, 20% for
cypress, 25% for poplar, 50% for walnut -- all about what I'd expected -- and
68% for red oak and 78% for white oak!

Why would the premium be so much more for oak than for cherry?

And why is it only 4% on hard maple?

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

Otoe wrote:
Would someone explain to me why 8/4 cost per boardfoot is
almost twice the cost of 4/4 per boardfoot? I don't under
stand how 4/4 oak is around $3.30 a boardfoot and an
8/4 is close to $7.00 a boardfoot. Rough cut in both
cases too.

Again, the measurements are in boardfoot so the
thickness shouldn't cost more on a boardfoot basis,

Otoe

A longer drying time and stock more prone to warp/check are probably two
reasons.

--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA

On Dec 11, 11:38 pm, Otoe wrote:
Would someone explain to me why 8/4 cost per boardfoot is
almost twice the cost of 4/4 per boardfoot?

I would FIRST ask your supplier.

Then, shop around and compare suppliers.

If your primary supplier is out of line, try another. If not, suck it
up - whatareyougonnado!

"Lew Hodgett" wrote in message
...

"Otoe" wrote:

Would someone explain to me why 8/4 cost per boardfoot is
almost twice the cost of 4/4 per boardfoot?

It's called the law of supply and demand.


That could be it but there is also an inventory business model that supports
charging more for slower moving expensive products. To justify the time the
slower moving product sits on the shelf the seller marks up the price to
justify the time and space being taken up.

"Leon" wrote:


That could be it but there is also an inventory business model that
supports
charging more for slower moving expensive products. To justify the
time the
slower moving product sits on the shelf the seller marks up the
price to
justify the time and space being taken up.

SFWIW, years ago had a tennant who was in the hardwood lumber
business.

He told me his cost/board ft was the same for either 4/4 or 8/4
lumber; however, the 8/4 retail price/bdft was more than the 4/4
price/bdft.

Lew

On Dec 12, 10:50 am, (Doug Miller) wrote:


Interesting thing, though -- at the lumber supplier just up the road from mehttp://www.northwestlumberco.com/domestic.php
the price premiums for 8/4 vs. 4/4 are 14% for ash, 25% for cherry, 20% for
cypress, 25% for poplar, 50% for walnut -- all about what I'd expected -- and
68% for red oak and 78% for white oak!

Why would the premium be so much more for oak than for cherry?

And why is it only 4% on hard maple?


I can't even begin to guess: I wouldn't pay a cent premium for any
thickness of white or red oak, but around here, red oak is a near
dominant species (tulip poplar beats it, as does SYP), and white oak
is plentiful. In fact, so is cherry and walnut and ash and...I've
always been willing to buy green and rough and wait a couple, three
years, which is a fine way to save a LOT of money on wood, if you have
a planer and jointer on hand.

"Lew Hodgett" wrote in message
...



SFWIW, years ago had a tennant who was in the hardwood lumber
business.

He told me his cost/board ft was the same for either 4/4 or 8/4
lumber; however, the 8/4 retail price/bdft was more than the 4/4
price/bdft.


That would sound right. Call it a "benefit of variety" mark up if you will.
If the larger slower moving board has a turn over rate of 2 per year and the
turn over rate on the smaller board is 6 times a year it would make more
sense to not stock the slower moving larger board and stock more of the
faster turning boards or mark the larger boards up so that the total sales
profit is the same for either board in any given year. Every square foot in
a warehouse and or retail floor space is an expense that has to be
considered when deciding on how much of what to stock so that the net profit
remains in the black.

"Charlie Self" wrote in message
...
On Dec 12, 10:50 am, (Doug Miller) wrote:
I've
always been willing to buy green and rough and wait a couple, three
years, which is a fine way to save a LOT of money on wood, if you have
a planer and jointer on hand.


AND, the room to store the wood while it dries. If you have to build
storage, the premium price for wood may look a little more attractive.

"Otoe" wrote in message
Would someone explain to me why 8/4 cost per boardfoot is
almost twice the cost of 4/4 per boardfoot?
Otoe

The primary legitimate reason for 8/4 costing more than 4/4 is based on
*grading* of the lumber.

It is more difficult to get the same grade when sawing 8/4 as compared to
4/4.

If the lumber is not graded there is minimal justification for a higher
price.

On Wed, 12 Dec 2007 18:01:06 -0700, "DouginUtah"
wrote:


"Otoe" wrote in message
Would someone explain to me why 8/4 cost per boardfoot is
almost twice the cost of 4/4 per boardfoot?
Otoe

The primary legitimate reason for 8/4 costing more than 4/4 is based on
*grading* of the lumber.

From what I know from my local suppliers, I totally agree.

I don't get the 2X price the OP mentioned, though...

On Wed, 12 Dec 2007 13:09:48 GMT, (Doug Miller)
wrote:

In article , Otoe wrote:

Again, the measurements are in boardfoot so the
thickness shouldn't cost more on a boardfoot basis

It takes longer to dry 8/4 lumber. Time is money.


absolutely! i think you found the brass ring doug. also the cost of
fuel to run the kiln comes into play and we all know how that is! It
takes more than twice as long to dry 8/4.
I buy green and air dry it to save some money but that takes some
planning ahead and sometimes ya just dont have the time!

skeez

On Dec 11, 11:38 pm, Otoe wrote:
Would someone explain to me why 8/4 cost per boardfoot is
almost twice the cost of 4/4 per boardfoot? I don't under
stand how 4/4 oak is around $3.30 a boardfoot and an
8/4 is close to $7.00 a boardfoot. Rough cut in both
cases too.

Again, the measurements are in boardfoot so the
thickness shouldn't cost more on a boardfoot basis,

Just to add to the current discussion, I happened to the yard
yesterday to buy some white oak:

4/4 was $4.76
5/4 was $5.76
8/4 was $5.46

All S2S.

On Thu, 13 Dec 2007 09:23:38 -0800 (PST), Larry Bud
wrote:


Just to add to the current discussion, I happened to the yard
yesterday to buy some white oak:


Even more, check my guy out:

http://www.cwghardwoodoutlet.com/pricelists/ctwoodgroup_hardwoodpricelist.pdf

Compare white oak, where the difference is as much as $4/bf for
quartersawn, and sapele, where the difference is only $0.35/bf.

Bonehenge (B A R R Y) wrote:
On Thu, 13 Dec 2007 09:23:38 -0800 (PST), Larry Bud
wrote:


Just to add to the current discussion, I happened to the yard
yesterday to buy some white oak:


Even more, check my guy out:

http://www.cwghardwoodoutlet.com/pricelists/ctwoodgroup_hardwoodpricelist.pdf

Compare white oak, where the difference is as much as $4/bf for
quartersawn, and sapele, where the difference is only $0.35/bf.

Have they quit carrying the Argentine hardwoods? I haven't been by
there in a while and I notice that they no longer have them in the
price list.

--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

On Thu, 13 Dec 2007 13:20:51 -0500, "J. Clarke"
wrote:


Have they quit carrying the Argentine hardwoods? I haven't been by
there in a while and I notice that they no longer have them in the
price list.

Now that you mention it, the "exotic" section at the bottom of the
list is gone.

Bonehenge (B A R R Y) wrote:
On Thu, 13 Dec 2007 13:20:51 -0500, "J. Clarke"
wrote:


Have they quit carrying the Argentine hardwoods? I haven't been by
there in a while and I notice that they no longer have them in the
price list.

Now that you mention it, the "exotic" section at the bottom of the
list is gone.

If so it's a bummer. They had some really nice stuff.

--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

I can't believe how much people pay for quality wood. Do a google
search for sawmills in your area, also check
http://www.switchboard.com for them. Then go talk to the owner. Most
small sawmills will sell you whatever you need. I've bought as little
as one board, or 1000bft lots. If you can dry your own wood, it gets
even cheeper. The last lot of birdseye maple I bought was $1.00 a
board foot, $0.50 for character grade walnut, and $0.50 for cherry.
Here's a link to some cheep lumber in East Tennessee:

http://www.tpost.com/results.aspx?key=lumber

And the ads online today:

KILN DRIED LUMBER Red Oak, White Oak, Hard Maple, Soft Maple, Walnut,
Poplar, Hickory, Ash & Cherry Call for info & prices

LUMBER 500 BD ft kiln dried cherry, 8' lengths, 6-8" widths, 1" thick
$500

LUMBER CEDAR LUMBAR, 510lf $1020 for all

LUMBER CEDAR, 100 board foot $200 for all

LUMBER CHERRY AND walnut 100 board feet $150

2500 FT LUMBER MIXED CHERRY, Walnut, Oak, Poplar $1500

LUMBER WALNUT, 220+ bft, kiln dried, lv msg $500

LUMBER WALNUT, 500' +, 35yr seasoned $600, also 100' of Wormy Chestnut
$150

You can find locally produced wood from your area just as cheep if you
look hard enough. Also, go the the websites of portable sawmills,
(Woodmizer, etc.) They have lists of people who have bought their
machines. Find someone in your area and contact them. Have them call
you when they have lumber to sell.

On Thu, 13 Dec 2007 17:39:33 GMT, "Bonehenge (B A R R Y)"
wrote:

On Thu, 13 Dec 2007 09:23:38 -0800 (PST), Larry Bud
wrote:


Just to add to the current discussion, I happened to the yard
yesterday to buy some white oak:


Even more, check my guy out:

http://www.cwghardwoodoutlet.com/pricelists/ctwoodgroup_hardwoodpricelist.pdf

Compare white oak, where the difference is as much as $4/bf for
quartersawn, and sapele, where the difference is only $0.35/bf.

On Dec 14, 8:02 am, Ron c. wrote:
I can't believe how much people pay for quality wood. Do a google
search for sawmills in your area, also check
http://www.switchboard.com for them. Then go talk to the owner. Most
small sawmills will sell you whatever you need

I don't have time to blow 4 or 5 hours to drive to the closest
sawmill, especially since I don't have a truck and can only haul
around a few pieces in my Saturn. And if it's to save $50, it's
still not worth it when I could use one of those hours to do some side
programming and make $80.

On Dec 14, 8:06 am, Larry Bud wrote:
On Dec 14, 8:02 am, Ron c. wrote:

I can't believe how much people pay for quality wood. Do a google
search for sawmills in your area, also check
http://www.switchboard.comfor them. Then go talk to the owner. Most
small sawmills will sell you whatever you need

I don't have time to blow 4 or 5 hours to drive to the closest
sawmill, especially since I don't have a truck and can only haul
around a few pieces in my Saturn. And if it's to save $50, it's
still not worth it when I could use one of those hours to do some side
programming and make $80.

If you think his figures show a 50 buck savings, then you need to back
off and re-think. A buck a board foot for kiln dried cherry should
yield sufficient FAS, commons and whatnot to save at least 500 bucks.
If you get lucky, that amount could triple.

Can you borrow a truck for a day? Attach a trailer to your Saturn?

One of the fine advantages to country living is that what I don't
have, my friends or neighbors do have, so hauling pretty much anything
isn't a hassle, except for the work and the gas.

Here's a link to some cheep lumber in East Tennessee:

http://www.tpost.com/results.aspx?key=lumber


Ron,

Thanks for that link. Where in etn are you?

jc

"Joe" wrote in message

Here's a link to some cheep lumber in East Tennessee:

http://www.tpost.com/results.aspx?key=lumber


Ron,

Thanks for that link. Where in etn are you?

Just look for a bunch of chickens ...

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 12/14/07
KarlC@ (the obvious)

On Dec 14, 8:06 am, Larry Bud wrote:

I don't have time to blow 4 or 5 hours to drive to the closest
sawmill, especially since I don't have a truck and can only haul
around a few pieces in my Saturn. And if it's to save $50, it's
still not worth it when I could use one of those hours to do some side
programming and make $80.

Absolutely right. And you'd be even better off by staying with your
programming and paying someone else to do the woodworking you want
done. Stick with what you're best at.

John Martin

Ron c. wrote:

I can't believe how much people pay for quality wood. Do a google
search for sawmills in your area, also check
http://www.switchboard.com for them. Then go talk to the owner. Most
small sawmills will sell you whatever you need. I've bought as little
as one board, or 1000bft lots. If you can dry your own wood, it gets
even cheeper. The last lot of birdseye maple I bought was $1.00 a
board foot, $0.50 for character grade walnut, and $0.50 for cherry.
Here's a link to some cheep lumber in East Tennessee:

http://www.tpost.com/results.aspx?key=lumber

And the ads online today:


That'd be dandy if I lived somewhere that had trees.



--
If you're going to be dumb, you better be tough

On Fri, 14 Dec 2007 08:02:12 -0500, Ron c.
wrote:

You can find locally produced wood from your area just as cheep if you
look hard enough. Also, go the the websites of portable sawmills,
(Woodmizer, etc.) They have lists of people who have bought their
machines. Find someone in your area and contact them. Have them call
you when they have lumber to sell.

Have you ever actually been to any of areas some of us live in?

Charlie Self, remember "East Westchester County"? G

I have absolutely no way to store more than say, 150 bf/ft of stock,
much less unusable stock that isn't dry. Since a 1/2 acre empty lot
in my neighborhood goes for ~$75,000, I think the lumber dealer is
providing me with a good value by holding all that stock until I need
it. G

On Fri, 14 Dec 2007 10:02:19 -0700, Mark & Juanita
wrote:

That'd be dandy if I lived somewhere that had trees.


That's funny, I don't care who you are!

Can a Woodmiser saw cactus? G

On Dec 14, 12:55 pm, "Bonehenge (B A R R Y)"
wrote:
On Fri, 14 Dec 2007 08:02:12 -0500, Ron c.
wrote:



You can find locally produced wood from your area just as cheep if you
look hard enough. Also, go the the websites of portable sawmills,
(Woodmizer, etc.) They have lists of people who have bought their
machines. Find someone in your area and contact them. Have them call
you when they have lumber to sell.

Have you ever actually been to any of areas some of us live in?

Charlie Self, remember "East Westchester County"? G

I have absolutely no way to store more than say, 150 bf/ft of stock,
much less unusable stock that isn't dry. Since a 1/2 acre empty lot
in my neighborhood goes for ~$75,000, I think the lumber dealer is
providing me with a good value by holding all that stock until I need
it. G

I was born in Yonkers, raised in an area including Mt. Vernon, N.
Pelham, New Rochelle, and then up to Katonah and the "country."
Actually, when we moved ther ein '53, Katonah was pretty much country.
I left Westchester in January 1958, and have had no reason to return
for about 35 years now. The friends I had from that era are living in
places like Santa Barbara and upstate NY and Arizona and Nevada.