I've been using shellac to seal pine knots and I've been happy with the
results in that the knot doesn't bleed through. The problem I have is that
I usually end up painting the project with white paint which doesn't cover
the shellaced spots very well. I have to put on at three coats of paint to
cover it and even then, it still doesn't look very good. Before anyone
suggests I switch to a different type of wood, I use pine because it's cheap
and I don't mind covering it with paint. I'm not a big fan of using a
hardwood to just cover it up with paint.

Does anyone else use something besides shellac to seal the knots that works
well when painted? I know Zinser makes a primer that includes shellac and
I've used it before but after a year or so, the knots still bleed through.

My method once sanding is complete is to put the shellac on the knots, sand
lightly with 220 grit, then apply latex primer, sand again lightly with 220
grit, then apply latex paint.

Thanks in advance.

"efgh" wrote in message
news:ZFHTi.47565$%B2.3334@edtnps82...

My method once sanding is complete is to put the shellac on the knots,
sand lightly with 220 grit, then apply latex primer, sand again lightly
with 220 grit, then apply latex paint.

Is this an interior or exterior application?
In either instance I would start by switching to an alkyd primer over
the shellac.
If it's an interior application I always use an alkyd enamel.

--
NuWave Dave in Houston

"Dave In Houston" wrote in message
. ..

"efgh" wrote in message
news:ZFHTi.47565$%B2.3334@edtnps82...

My method once sanding is complete is to put the shellac on the knots,
sand lightly with 220 grit, then apply latex primer, sand again lightly
with 220 grit, then apply latex paint.

Is this an interior or exterior application?
In either instance I would start by switching to an alkyd primer over
the shellac.
If it's an interior application I always use an alkyd enamel.

--
NuWave Dave in Houston

It's for interior use only. I prefer latex because of the lack of odour
relative to alkyd.

If you are using bullseye shellac out of the can, it is not dewaded
and could be one reason paint isn't coveriing well over it.
Regardless, look for another product by Zinser called Killz (not sure
about spelling). It is a covering primer that I think has some shellac
in it. It is also perfect for covering sappy knots and is a white
primer paint. I would do one complete base coat of this with maybe a
liitle more where you have the knots, then the top coat of paint will
be consistent.

If you want to stick with shellac you can stry scuff sanding before
you do a top coat. With Killz you can build it up thick and then sand
it out to get a very smooth base for your paint, which is really
reccomended for any over wood application if you want smooth finish.


On Oct 24, 6:22 am, "efgh" wrote:
I've been using shellac to seal pine knots and I've been happy with the
results in that the knot doesn't bleed through. The problem I have is that
I usually end up painting the project with white paint which doesn't cover
the shellaced spots very well. I have to put on at three coats of paint to
cover it and even then, it still doesn't look very good. Before anyone
suggests I switch to a different type of wood, I use pine because it's cheap
and I don't mind covering it with paint. I'm not a big fan of using a
hardwood to just cover it up with paint.

Does anyone else use something besides shellac to seal the knots that works
well when painted? I know Zinser makes a primer that includes shellac and
I've used it before but after a year or so, the knots still bleed through.

My method once sanding is complete is to put the shellac on the knots, sand
lightly with 220 grit, then apply latex primer, sand again lightly with 220
grit, then apply latex paint.

Thanks in advance.

"SonomaProducts.com" wrote in message
ps.com...
If you are using bullseye shellac out of the can, it is not dewaded
and could be one reason paint isn't coveriing well over it.
Regardless, look for another product by Zinser called Killz (not sure
about spelling). It is a covering primer that I think has some shellac
in it. It is also perfect for covering sappy knots and is a white
primer paint. I would do one complete base coat of this with maybe a
liitle more where you have the knots, then the top coat of paint will
be consistent.

If you want to stick with shellac you can stry scuff sanding before
you do a top coat. With Killz you can build it up thick and then sand
it out to get a very smooth base for your paint, which is really
reccomended for any over wood application if you want smooth finish.


I've tried a Zinser primer that had shellac in it and the knots still bled
through after about a year. I guess what I'm wondering if anyone has tried
a polyurethane like product and got the same results if they had used
shellac.

"SonomaProducts.com" wrote in message
ps.com...

If you are using bullseye shellac out of the can, it is not dewaded
and could be one reason paint isn't coveriing well over it.
Regardless, look for another product by Zinser called Killz (not sure
about spelling).

Zinsser and Kilz are, in fact, two different brands of similar products,
ie pigmented shellac.
Cannot say about the Zinsser brand but know that Kilz makes a low or no
ordor variety. And Benjamin Moore touts this alkyd primer as being "low
odor." Benjamin Moore Fresh Start® QD-30 Stain Blocking Primer 202:
http://www.benjaminmoore.com/bmpsweb...findpr oducts
--
NuWave Dave in Houston

Dave In Houston wrote:

Zinsser and Kilz are, in fact, two different brands of similar products,
ie pigmented shellac.
Cannot say about the Zinsser brand but know that Kilz makes a low or no
ordor variety. And Benjamin Moore touts this alkyd primer as being "low
odor." Benjamin Moore Fresh Start® QD-30 Stain Blocking Primer 202:
http://www.benjaminmoore.com/bmpsweb...findpr oducts

Kilz is made by MasterChem Industries, Inc. They make eight different
types of Kilz Primers:

http://www.kilz.com/pages/default.aspx?NavID=22

--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA

On Wed, 24 Oct 2007 13:22:01 GMT, "efgh" wrote:

I've been using shellac to seal pine knots and I've been happy with the
results in that the knot doesn't bleed through. The problem I have is that
I usually end up painting the project with white paint which doesn't cover
the shellaced spots very well. I have to put on at three coats of paint to
cover it and even then, it still doesn't look very good. Before anyone
suggests I switch to a different type of wood, I use pine because it's cheap
and I don't mind covering it with paint. I'm not a big fan of using a
hardwood to just cover it up with paint.

Does anyone else use something besides shellac to seal the knots that works
well when painted? I know Zinser makes a primer that includes shellac and
I've used it before but after a year or so, the knots still bleed through.

My method once sanding is complete is to put the shellac on the knots, sand
lightly with 220 grit, then apply latex primer, sand again lightly with 220
grit, then apply latex paint.

Thanks in advance.



Coat the knots and any resin veins 3 or 4 times. I put up some
painted crown molding (on a 18-foot ceiling) that I had primed with a
shellac-based primer. It looked great, but after 3 years I started
seeing resin patterns emerging. I sanded these areas, shellacked them
4 times, then painted over. It has been 10 years without any
bleeding. Some of the (pine) door trim did the same thing. White
shades of paint are the worst.

Does anyone else use something besides shellac to seal the knots that works
well when painted? I know Zinser makes a primer that includes shellac and
I've used it before but after a year or so, the knots still bleed through.


I used aluminum paint (spray bomb) on a stubborn corner that was
attracting mildew. Latex paint over that and it hasn't come back in 8
years. Could also use brush on from a small can.

I offer this up knowing you don't want the odor issues, even tho that
only lasted 1/2 hr indoors.

Pete

"Phisherman" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 24 Oct 2007 13:22:01 GMT, "efgh" wrote:

I've been using shellac to seal pine knots and I've been happy with the
results in that the knot doesn't bleed through. The problem I have is
that
I usually end up painting the project with white paint which doesn't cover
the shellaced spots very well. I have to put on at three coats of paint
to
cover it and even then, it still doesn't look very good. Before anyone
suggests I switch to a different type of wood, I use pine because it's
cheap
and I don't mind covering it with paint. I'm not a big fan of using a
hardwood to just cover it up with paint.

Does anyone else use something besides shellac to seal the knots that
works
well when painted? I know Zinser makes a primer that includes shellac and
I've used it before but after a year or so, the knots still bleed through.

My method once sanding is complete is to put the shellac on the knots,
sand
lightly with 220 grit, then apply latex primer, sand again lightly with
220
grit, then apply latex paint.

Thanks in advance.



Coat the knots and any resin veins 3 or 4 times. I put up some
painted crown molding (on a 18-foot ceiling) that I had primed with a
shellac-based primer. It looked great, but after 3 years I started
seeing resin patterns emerging. I sanded these areas, shellacked them
4 times, then painted over. It has been 10 years without any
bleeding. Some of the (pine) door trim did the same thing. White
shades of paint are the worst.

One coat of shellac works well for me. The problem I have is that it
usually takes 3-4 coats of white paint to cover the darkness of the shellac
so you can't see it. I'd like to use something lighter in colour like a
polyurethane but I'm wondering if has the same sealing results of shellac.

"Dave In Houston" wrote:


"efgh" wrote in message
news:ZFHTi.47565$%B2.3334@edtnps82...

My method once sanding is complete is to put the shellac on the knots,
sand lightly with 220 grit, then apply latex primer, sand again lightly
with 220 grit, then apply latex paint.

Is this an interior or exterior application?
In either instance I would start by switching to an alkyd primer over
the shellac.
If it's an interior application I always use an alkyd enamel.

While I know that the OP has rejected it, for reasons that may be
right for him, I'd strongly second this suggestion. While I agree that
an alkyd enamel provides better leveling and harder/more attractive
surface, if the OP still wants to use latex as a top coat, I'd still
recommend the oil-base primer. At the very least, buy an aerosol can
of Kilz or BIN oil-based primer and spray just the knots before
brushing on your latex primer. I can't imagine a knot bleeding through
shellac + oil-based primer + latex primer + latex topcoat!
--
Alex -- Replace "nospam" with "mail" to reply by email. Checked infrequently.

efgh wrote:

One coat of shellac works well for me. The problem I have is that it
usually takes 3-4 coats of white paint to cover the darkness of the shellac
so you can't see it.

Try Zinsser "BIN". BIN is white pigmented shellac.

alexy wrote:
At the very least, buy an aerosol can
of Kilz or BIN oil-based primer and spray just the knots before
brushing on your latex primer. I can't imagine a knot bleeding through
shellac + oil-based primer + latex primer + latex topcoat!

Not to nitpick, but I think it deserves to be mentioned that there is no
such animal as "BIN Oil Based". Zinsser does indeed make an oil based
product, but BIN isn't it. BIN is shellac premixed with white pigment.

Details: http://www.zinnser.com/subcat.asp?CategoryID=1

B A R R Y wrote:

alexy wrote:
At the very least, buy an aerosol can
of Kilz or BIN oil-based primer and spray just the knots before
brushing on your latex primer. I can't imagine a knot bleeding through
shellac + oil-based primer + latex primer + latex topcoat!

Not to nitpick, but I think it deserves to be mentioned that there is no
such animal as "BIN Oil Based". Zinsser does indeed make an oil based
product, but BIN isn't it. BIN is shellac premixed with white pigment.

Details: http://www.zinnser.com/subcat.asp?CategoryID=1

Thanks for the correction. I usually buy Kilz, but was intending to
mention a competing product not to appear to be promoting one
particular brand. Oh, well; my intentions were pure. ;-)
--
Alex -- Replace "nospam" with "mail" to reply by email. Checked infrequently.

Wed, Oct 24, 2007, 4:56pm (EDT+4) (efgh) doth sayeth:
One coat of shellac works well for me. The problem I have is that it
usually takes 3-4 coats of white paint to cover the darkness of the
shellac so you can't see it. I'd like to use something lighter in colour
like a polyurethane but I'm wondering if has the same sealing results of
shellac.

Well, apparently your one coat of shellac "doesn't" work well. If
it did, you wouldn't be asking. I use latex on a variety of my
projects. With no problems. I do use good quality indoor/outdoor. One
coat usually meets my needs, sometimes two. You may want to try a
different brand, and/or better quality. I haven't used shellac in
decades, but do understnd it comes in different shades. You might want
to buy flakes, and mix your own. Anyway, I think it's more likely the
darkness of the knot, and not the shellac, that you want to cover up. I
don't recall you saying what it is you paint. If you want viable
responses, you need to provide ALL the details, not just a few. You
know what they say, "GIGO, garbage in, garbage out".



JOAT
"I'm an Igor, thur. We don't athk quethtionth."
"Really? Why not?"
"I don't know, thur. I didn't athk."

On Oct 24, 10:33 am, "efgh" wrote:
"Dave In Houston" wrote in messagenews:M5SdndGT7otXzoLanZ2dnUVZ_qGknZ2d@comca st.com...



"efgh" wrote in message
news:ZFHTi.47565$%B2.3334@edtnps82...

My method once sanding is complete is to put the shellac on the knots,
sand lightly with 220 grit, then apply latex primer, sand again lightly
with 220 grit, then apply latex paint.

Is this an interior or exterior application?
In either instance I would start by switching to an alkyd primer over
the shellac.
If it's an interior application I always use an alkyd enamel.

--
NuWave Dave in Houston

It's for interior use only. I prefer latex because of the lack of odour
relative to alkyd.

Alkyd enamel is the one to beat. Acrylic comes close, might
be worth a try if you hate the smell of varnish. Latex is
good for rolling onto walls and not much else.

efgh wrote:


One coat of shellac works well for me. The problem I have is that it
usually takes 3-4 coats of white paint to cover the darkness of the shellac
so you can't see it. I'd like to use something lighter in colour like a
polyurethane but I'm wondering if has the same sealing results of shellac.


Use a blond or super blond shellac.

--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA

Wed, Oct 24, 2007, 5:11pm (EDT-3) (Ferd*Farkel) doth
sayeth:
snip Latex is good for rolling onto walls and not much else.

You've obviously not been keeping informed. That's not the case
anymore. Check to see what type of paint most houses are being painted
with now..



JOAT
"I'm an Igor, thur. We don't athk quethtionth."
"Really? Why not?"
"I don't know, thur. I didn't athk."

Thu, Oct 25, 2007, 12:43am (EDT+4) (Nova) doth
sayeth:
Use a blond or super blond shellac.

Heh. Even better, drill, or cut, out the entire knot; then glue in
a identical profile pine plug. No prob, it's going to be painted
anyway. LMAO



JOAT
"I'm an Igor, thur. We don't athk quethtionth."
"Really? Why not?"
"I don't know, thur. I didn't athk."

J T wrote:
Wed, Oct 24, 2007, 5:11pm (EDT-3) (Ferd Farkel)
doth
sayeth:
snip Latex is good for rolling onto walls and not much else.

You've obviously not been keeping informed. That's not the
case
anymore. Check to see what type of paint most houses are being
painted with now..

While I agree with your point, the fact that most houses are being
painted with it now doesn't necessarily mean that it's good, only that
it's politically correct.

For older houses that have been repainted several times it's a safe
choice as well--you don't really know what kind of cheap crap the last
guy put on, and latex will go over oil and stick but oil won't go over
latex and stick.

I need to strip mine to the bare wood at some point--the paint's
peeling but it's not any paint that I applied--the peel is between a
blue layer and a green layer and it's been white as long as I've had
it.

JOAT
"I'm an Igor, thur. We don't athk quethtionth."
"Really? Why not?"
"I don't know, thur. I didn't athk."

--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

"Use a blond or super blond shellac" Mix your own and buy DEWAXED. Any
Woodcraft store etc or goggle it on line. Blond flaked and denatured
alchol. I apply with cloth in a pad and a squirt bottle but brush is
fine.

"J. Clarke" wrote in message
...
J T wrote:

While I agree with your point, the fact that most houses are being
painted with it now doesn't necessarily mean that it's good, only that
it's politically correct.


We are repeatedly reminded by our regular Benjamin Moore dealer
(Southwestern Paint/FM 1960) that coming EPA regulations will mandate
remaining levels of solvent(s) in alkyd paints out in the not-so-distant
future.


For older houses that have been repainted several times it's a safe
choice as well--you don't really know what kind of cheap crap the last
guy put on, and latex will go over oil and stick but oil won't go over
latex and stick.


If it's a tract house then the last guy was probably the builder and the
paint was probably Monarch, the cheapest available. We regularly see
five-six-seven year old homes with their trendy, exterior crown or other
millwork rotting off due in no small part to poor detailing and cheap
materials (which includes the choice of paint).

--
NuWave Dave in Houston

Dave In Houston wrote:
"J. Clarke" wrote in message
...
J T wrote:

While I agree with your point, the fact that most houses are being
painted with it now doesn't necessarily mean that it's good, only
that it's politically correct.


We are repeatedly reminded by our regular Benjamin Moore dealer
(Southwestern Paint/FM 1960) that coming EPA regulations will
mandate
remaining levels of solvent(s) in alkyd paints out in the
not-so-distant future.


For older houses that have been repainted several times it's a safe
choice as well--you don't really know what kind of cheap crap the
last guy put on, and latex will go over oil and stick but oil won't
go over latex and stick.


If it's a tract house then the last guy was probably the builder
and the paint was probably Monarch, the cheapest available. We
regularly see five-six-seven year old homes with their trendy,
exterior crown or other millwork rotting off due in no small part to
poor detailing and cheap materials (which includes the choice of
paint).

Don't think the builder would have painted it white on top of blue on
top of green. And I'm pretty sure there's a layer or two under the
green.

--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

"J. Clarke" wrote in message
...


).

Don't think the builder would have painted it white on top of blue on
top of green. And I'm pretty sure there's a layer or two under the
green.

True enough; you're situation doesn't qualify.

--
NuWave Dave in Houston

On Oct 25, 1:01 am, (J T) wrote:
Wed, Oct 24, 2007, 5:11pm (EDT-3) (Ferd Farkel) doth
sayeth:
snip Latex is good for rolling onto walls and not much else.

You've obviously not been keeping informed. That's not the case
anymore. Check to see what type of paint most houses are being painted
with now..

What do you use for trim? For doors or bookshelves, where
you don't want sticking and callbacks?

On Oct 24, 12:56 pm, "efgh" wrote:

I'd like to use something lighter in colour like a
polyurethane but I'm wondering if has the same sealing results of shellac.

Not sure, but shellac is faster.

Ferd Farkel wrote:


What do you use for trim? For doors or bookshelves, where
you don't want sticking and callbacks?

There are lots of good non-blocking latex paints available.

Thu, Oct 25, 2007, 9:38am (EDT-3) (Ferd*Farkel)
doth query:
What do you use for trim? For doors or bookshelves, where you don't want
sticking and callbacks?

Latex. Latex. Latex. Paint every damn near everything with
latex. I'm even thinking of painting my truck with latex. The only
thing I use oil base paint for anymore is painting my tools yellow. I'd
use latex on them too, but I don't feel like being bothered with primer
first.



JOAT
It's not hard, if you get your mind right.
- Granny Weatherwax

On Oct 25, 1:50 pm, B A R R Y wrote:
Ferd Farkel wrote:

What do you use for trim? For doors or bookshelves, where
you don't want sticking and callbacks?

There are lots of good non-blocking latex paints available.

Love to try one. What brands?

J T wrote:
Thu, Oct 25, 2007, 9:38am (EDT-3) (Ferd Farkel)
doth query:
What do you use for trim? For doors or bookshelves, where you don't
want sticking and callbacks?

Latex. Latex. Latex. Paint every damn near everything with
latex. I'm even thinking of painting my truck with latex. The only
thing I use oil base paint for anymore is painting my tools yellow.
I'd use latex on them too, but I don't feel like being bothered with
primer first.

Actually you may not have much choice but to paint your truck with
waterborne paint in a few more years. Not latex, but not oil either.
Your tax dollars at work.

--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

Thu, Oct 25, 2007, 9:47pm (J.*Clarke) doth
sayeth:
Actually you may not have much choice but to paint your truck with
waterborne paint in a few more years. Not latex, but not oil either.
Your tax dollars at work.

I bought a can of spray latex (yellow, of course), to try out.
Used it on some old .50 ammo cans. Seemed to go on just as well as
regular spray paint, and seems to be holding up as well too. Smelled
better too.



JOAT
It's not hard, if you get your mind right.
- Granny Weatherwax

Father Haskell wrote:

Love to try one. What brands?


The last I used was Pratt & Lambert. It was a satin "antique white",
leaning towards gray / violet. I know "antique white" narrows it down
for maybe 500 colors. G No sticking at all on doors, bookshelves
and CD shelves.

I'm not anti-alkyd. I really like Ben Moore's "Fresh Start" primer for
problem moist bathrooms.

J. Clarke wrote:

Actually you may not have much choice but to paint your truck with
waterborne paint in a few more years.


My '05 American-made Tacoma _is_ painted with waterborne, as it was
built in Northern California. They've been doing this there for years.
The same factory also builds Toyota Corollas and Pontiac Vibes --
http://www.nummi.com/home.php.

From what I've seen with high-quality waterborne finishes, we shouldn't
worry.

I have no idea what paint is on Mexican-built Tacomas, though. G

J T wrote:

I bought a can of spray latex (yellow, of course), to try out.
Used it on some old .50 ammo cans. Seemed to go on just as well as
regular spray paint, and seems to be holding up as well too. Smelled
better too.

Back when I flew r/c combat, 7-8 years ago, I used spray latex on foam
wings, as solvent based paint would eat the foam. I thought it worked
pretty well then, and would imagine it getting better.

Maybe instead of just sealing the knots, seal the entire surface. It should
give you a consistent base then prime with an alkyd primer before painting.

Kate


"efgh" wrote in message
news:ZFHTi.47565$%B2.3334@edtnps82...
I've been using shellac to seal pine knots and I've been happy with the
results in that the knot doesn't bleed through. The problem I have is that
I usually end up painting the project with white paint which doesn't cover
the shellaced spots very well. I have to put on at three coats of paint to
cover it and even then, it still doesn't look very good. Before anyone
suggests I switch to a different type of wood, I use pine because it's cheap
and I don't mind covering it with paint. I'm not a big fan of using a
hardwood to just cover it up with paint.

Does anyone else use something besides shellac to seal the knots that works
well when painted? I know Zinser makes a primer that includes shellac and
I've used it before but after a year or so, the knots still bleed through.

My method once sanding is complete is to put the shellac on the knots, sand
lightly with 220 grit, then apply latex primer, sand again lightly with 220
grit, then apply latex paint.

Thanks in advance.

I've used Kilz over pine, it DOES allow bleeding of tanins from the wood.
Sorry...
Kate

"SonomaProducts.com" wrote in message
ps.com...
If you are using bullseye shellac out of the can, it is not dewaded
and could be one reason paint isn't coveriing well over it.
Regardless, look for another product by Zinser called Killz (not sure
about spelling). It is a covering primer that I think has some shellac
in it. It is also perfect for covering sappy knots and is a white
primer paint. I would do one complete base coat of this with maybe a
liitle more where you have the knots, then the top coat of paint will
be consistent.

If you want to stick with shellac you can stry scuff sanding before
you do a top coat. With Killz you can build it up thick and then sand
it out to get a very smooth base for your paint, which is really
reccomended for any over wood application if you want smooth finish.


On Oct 24, 6:22 am, "efgh" wrote:
I've been using shellac to seal pine knots and I've been happy with the
results in that the knot doesn't bleed through. The problem I have is
that
I usually end up painting the project with white paint which doesn't cover
the shellaced spots very well. I have to put on at three coats of paint
to
cover it and even then, it still doesn't look very good. Before anyone
suggests I switch to a different type of wood, I use pine because it's
cheap
and I don't mind covering it with paint. I'm not a big fan of using a
hardwood to just cover it up with paint.

Does anyone else use something besides shellac to seal the knots that
works
well when painted? I know Zinser makes a primer that includes shellac and
I've used it before but after a year or so, the knots still bleed through.

My method once sanding is complete is to put the shellac on the knots,
sand
lightly with 220 grit, then apply latex primer, sand again lightly with
220
grit, then apply latex paint.

Thanks in advance.