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Sealing Pine Knots
I've been using shellac to seal pine knots and I've been happy with the
results in that the knot doesn't bleed through. The problem I have is that I usually end up painting the project with white paint which doesn't cover the shellaced spots very well. I have to put on at three coats of paint to cover it and even then, it still doesn't look very good. Before anyone suggests I switch to a different type of wood, I use pine because it's cheap and I don't mind covering it with paint. I'm not a big fan of using a hardwood to just cover it up with paint. Does anyone else use something besides shellac to seal the knots that works well when painted? I know Zinser makes a primer that includes shellac and I've used it before but after a year or so, the knots still bleed through. My method once sanding is complete is to put the shellac on the knots, sand lightly with 220 grit, then apply latex primer, sand again lightly with 220 grit, then apply latex paint. Thanks in advance. |
Sealing Pine Knots
"efgh" wrote in message news:ZFHTi.47565$%B2.3334@edtnps82... My method once sanding is complete is to put the shellac on the knots, sand lightly with 220 grit, then apply latex primer, sand again lightly with 220 grit, then apply latex paint. Is this an interior or exterior application? In either instance I would start by switching to an alkyd primer over the shellac. If it's an interior application I always use an alkyd enamel. -- NuWave Dave in Houston |
Sealing Pine Knots
"Dave In Houston" wrote in message . .. "efgh" wrote in message news:ZFHTi.47565$%B2.3334@edtnps82... My method once sanding is complete is to put the shellac on the knots, sand lightly with 220 grit, then apply latex primer, sand again lightly with 220 grit, then apply latex paint. Is this an interior or exterior application? In either instance I would start by switching to an alkyd primer over the shellac. If it's an interior application I always use an alkyd enamel. -- NuWave Dave in Houston It's for interior use only. I prefer latex because of the lack of odour relative to alkyd. |
Sealing Pine Knots
If you are using bullseye shellac out of the can, it is not dewaded
and could be one reason paint isn't coveriing well over it. Regardless, look for another product by Zinser called Killz (not sure about spelling). It is a covering primer that I think has some shellac in it. It is also perfect for covering sappy knots and is a white primer paint. I would do one complete base coat of this with maybe a liitle more where you have the knots, then the top coat of paint will be consistent. If you want to stick with shellac you can stry scuff sanding before you do a top coat. With Killz you can build it up thick and then sand it out to get a very smooth base for your paint, which is really reccomended for any over wood application if you want smooth finish. On Oct 24, 6:22 am, "efgh" wrote: I've been using shellac to seal pine knots and I've been happy with the results in that the knot doesn't bleed through. The problem I have is that I usually end up painting the project with white paint which doesn't cover the shellaced spots very well. I have to put on at three coats of paint to cover it and even then, it still doesn't look very good. Before anyone suggests I switch to a different type of wood, I use pine because it's cheap and I don't mind covering it with paint. I'm not a big fan of using a hardwood to just cover it up with paint. Does anyone else use something besides shellac to seal the knots that works well when painted? I know Zinser makes a primer that includes shellac and I've used it before but after a year or so, the knots still bleed through. My method once sanding is complete is to put the shellac on the knots, sand lightly with 220 grit, then apply latex primer, sand again lightly with 220 grit, then apply latex paint. Thanks in advance. |
Sealing Pine Knots
"SonomaProducts.com" wrote in message ps.com... If you are using bullseye shellac out of the can, it is not dewaded and could be one reason paint isn't coveriing well over it. Regardless, look for another product by Zinser called Killz (not sure about spelling). It is a covering primer that I think has some shellac in it. It is also perfect for covering sappy knots and is a white primer paint. I would do one complete base coat of this with maybe a liitle more where you have the knots, then the top coat of paint will be consistent. If you want to stick with shellac you can stry scuff sanding before you do a top coat. With Killz you can build it up thick and then sand it out to get a very smooth base for your paint, which is really reccomended for any over wood application if you want smooth finish. I've tried a Zinser primer that had shellac in it and the knots still bled through after about a year. I guess what I'm wondering if anyone has tried a polyurethane like product and got the same results if they had used shellac. |
Sealing Pine Knots
"SonomaProducts.com" wrote in message ps.com... If you are using bullseye shellac out of the can, it is not dewaded and could be one reason paint isn't coveriing well over it. Regardless, look for another product by Zinser called Killz (not sure about spelling). Zinsser and Kilz are, in fact, two different brands of similar products, ie pigmented shellac. Cannot say about the Zinsser brand but know that Kilz makes a low or no ordor variety. And Benjamin Moore touts this alkyd primer as being "low odor." Benjamin Moore Fresh Start® QD-30 Stain Blocking Primer 202: http://www.benjaminmoore.com/bmpsweb...findpr oducts -- NuWave Dave in Houston |
Sealing Pine Knots
Dave In Houston wrote:
Zinsser and Kilz are, in fact, two different brands of similar products, ie pigmented shellac. Cannot say about the Zinsser brand but know that Kilz makes a low or no ordor variety. And Benjamin Moore touts this alkyd primer as being "low odor." Benjamin Moore Fresh Start® QD-30 Stain Blocking Primer 202: http://www.benjaminmoore.com/bmpsweb...findpr oducts Kilz is made by MasterChem Industries, Inc. They make eight different types of Kilz Primers: http://www.kilz.com/pages/default.aspx?NavID=22 -- Jack Novak Buffalo, NY - USA |
Sealing Pine Knots
On Wed, 24 Oct 2007 13:22:01 GMT, "efgh" wrote:
I've been using shellac to seal pine knots and I've been happy with the results in that the knot doesn't bleed through. The problem I have is that I usually end up painting the project with white paint which doesn't cover the shellaced spots very well. I have to put on at three coats of paint to cover it and even then, it still doesn't look very good. Before anyone suggests I switch to a different type of wood, I use pine because it's cheap and I don't mind covering it with paint. I'm not a big fan of using a hardwood to just cover it up with paint. Does anyone else use something besides shellac to seal the knots that works well when painted? I know Zinser makes a primer that includes shellac and I've used it before but after a year or so, the knots still bleed through. My method once sanding is complete is to put the shellac on the knots, sand lightly with 220 grit, then apply latex primer, sand again lightly with 220 grit, then apply latex paint. Thanks in advance. Coat the knots and any resin veins 3 or 4 times. I put up some painted crown molding (on a 18-foot ceiling) that I had primed with a shellac-based primer. It looked great, but after 3 years I started seeing resin patterns emerging. I sanded these areas, shellacked them 4 times, then painted over. It has been 10 years without any bleeding. Some of the (pine) door trim did the same thing. White shades of paint are the worst. |
Sealing Pine Knots
Does anyone else use something besides shellac to seal the knots that works well when painted? I know Zinser makes a primer that includes shellac and I've used it before but after a year or so, the knots still bleed through. I used aluminum paint (spray bomb) on a stubborn corner that was attracting mildew. Latex paint over that and it hasn't come back in 8 years. Could also use brush on from a small can. I offer this up knowing you don't want the odor issues, even tho that only lasted 1/2 hr indoors. Pete |
Sealing Pine Knots
"Phisherman" wrote in message ... On Wed, 24 Oct 2007 13:22:01 GMT, "efgh" wrote: I've been using shellac to seal pine knots and I've been happy with the results in that the knot doesn't bleed through. The problem I have is that I usually end up painting the project with white paint which doesn't cover the shellaced spots very well. I have to put on at three coats of paint to cover it and even then, it still doesn't look very good. Before anyone suggests I switch to a different type of wood, I use pine because it's cheap and I don't mind covering it with paint. I'm not a big fan of using a hardwood to just cover it up with paint. Does anyone else use something besides shellac to seal the knots that works well when painted? I know Zinser makes a primer that includes shellac and I've used it before but after a year or so, the knots still bleed through. My method once sanding is complete is to put the shellac on the knots, sand lightly with 220 grit, then apply latex primer, sand again lightly with 220 grit, then apply latex paint. Thanks in advance. Coat the knots and any resin veins 3 or 4 times. I put up some painted crown molding (on a 18-foot ceiling) that I had primed with a shellac-based primer. It looked great, but after 3 years I started seeing resin patterns emerging. I sanded these areas, shellacked them 4 times, then painted over. It has been 10 years without any bleeding. Some of the (pine) door trim did the same thing. White shades of paint are the worst. One coat of shellac works well for me. The problem I have is that it usually takes 3-4 coats of white paint to cover the darkness of the shellac so you can't see it. I'd like to use something lighter in colour like a polyurethane but I'm wondering if has the same sealing results of shellac. |
Sealing Pine Knots
"Dave In Houston" wrote:
"efgh" wrote in message news:ZFHTi.47565$%B2.3334@edtnps82... My method once sanding is complete is to put the shellac on the knots, sand lightly with 220 grit, then apply latex primer, sand again lightly with 220 grit, then apply latex paint. Is this an interior or exterior application? In either instance I would start by switching to an alkyd primer over the shellac. If it's an interior application I always use an alkyd enamel. While I know that the OP has rejected it, for reasons that may be right for him, I'd strongly second this suggestion. While I agree that an alkyd enamel provides better leveling and harder/more attractive surface, if the OP still wants to use latex as a top coat, I'd still recommend the oil-base primer. At the very least, buy an aerosol can of Kilz or BIN oil-based primer and spray just the knots before brushing on your latex primer. I can't imagine a knot bleeding through shellac + oil-based primer + latex primer + latex topcoat! -- Alex -- Replace "nospam" with "mail" to reply by email. Checked infrequently. |
Sealing Pine Knots
efgh wrote:
One coat of shellac works well for me. The problem I have is that it usually takes 3-4 coats of white paint to cover the darkness of the shellac so you can't see it. Try Zinsser "BIN". BIN is white pigmented shellac. |
Sealing Pine Knots
alexy wrote:
At the very least, buy an aerosol can of Kilz or BIN oil-based primer and spray just the knots before brushing on your latex primer. I can't imagine a knot bleeding through shellac + oil-based primer + latex primer + latex topcoat! Not to nitpick, but I think it deserves to be mentioned that there is no such animal as "BIN Oil Based". Zinsser does indeed make an oil based product, but BIN isn't it. BIN is shellac premixed with white pigment. Details: http://www.zinnser.com/subcat.asp?CategoryID=1 |
Sealing Pine Knots
B A R R Y wrote:
alexy wrote: At the very least, buy an aerosol can of Kilz or BIN oil-based primer and spray just the knots before brushing on your latex primer. I can't imagine a knot bleeding through shellac + oil-based primer + latex primer + latex topcoat! Not to nitpick, but I think it deserves to be mentioned that there is no such animal as "BIN Oil Based". Zinsser does indeed make an oil based product, but BIN isn't it. BIN is shellac premixed with white pigment. Details: http://www.zinnser.com/subcat.asp?CategoryID=1 Thanks for the correction. I usually buy Kilz, but was intending to mention a competing product not to appear to be promoting one particular brand. Oh, well; my intentions were pure. ;-) -- Alex -- Replace "nospam" with "mail" to reply by email. Checked infrequently. |
Sealing Pine Knots
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Sealing Pine Knots
On Oct 24, 10:33 am, "efgh" wrote:
"Dave In Houston" wrote in messagenews:M5SdndGT7otXzoLanZ2dnUVZ_qGknZ2d@comca st.com... "efgh" wrote in message news:ZFHTi.47565$%B2.3334@edtnps82... My method once sanding is complete is to put the shellac on the knots, sand lightly with 220 grit, then apply latex primer, sand again lightly with 220 grit, then apply latex paint. Is this an interior or exterior application? In either instance I would start by switching to an alkyd primer over the shellac. If it's an interior application I always use an alkyd enamel. -- NuWave Dave in Houston It's for interior use only. I prefer latex because of the lack of odour relative to alkyd. Alkyd enamel is the one to beat. Acrylic comes close, might be worth a try if you hate the smell of varnish. Latex is good for rolling onto walls and not much else. |
Sealing Pine Knots
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Sealing Pine Knots
Thu, Oct 25, 2007, 12:43am (EDT+4) (Nova) doth
sayeth: Use a blond or super blond shellac. Heh. Even better, drill, or cut, out the entire knot; then glue in a identical profile pine plug. No prob, it's going to be painted anyway. LMAO JOAT "I'm an Igor, thur. We don't athk quethtionth." "Really? Why not?" "I don't know, thur. I didn't athk." |
Sealing Pine Knots
J T wrote:
Wed, Oct 24, 2007, 5:11pm (EDT-3) (Ferd Farkel) doth sayeth: snip Latex is good for rolling onto walls and not much else. You've obviously not been keeping informed. That's not the case anymore. Check to see what type of paint most houses are being painted with now.. While I agree with your point, the fact that most houses are being painted with it now doesn't necessarily mean that it's good, only that it's politically correct. For older houses that have been repainted several times it's a safe choice as well--you don't really know what kind of cheap crap the last guy put on, and latex will go over oil and stick but oil won't go over latex and stick. I need to strip mine to the bare wood at some point--the paint's peeling but it's not any paint that I applied--the peel is between a blue layer and a green layer and it's been white as long as I've had it. JOAT "I'm an Igor, thur. We don't athk quethtionth." "Really? Why not?" "I don't know, thur. I didn't athk." -- -- --John to email, dial "usenet" and validate (was jclarke at eye bee em dot net) |
Sealing Pine Knots
"Use a blond or super blond shellac" Mix your own and buy DEWAXED. Any
Woodcraft store etc or goggle it on line. Blond flaked and denatured alchol. I apply with cloth in a pad and a squirt bottle but brush is fine. |
Sealing Pine Knots
"J. Clarke" wrote in message ... J T wrote: While I agree with your point, the fact that most houses are being painted with it now doesn't necessarily mean that it's good, only that it's politically correct. We are repeatedly reminded by our regular Benjamin Moore dealer (Southwestern Paint/FM 1960) that coming EPA regulations will mandate remaining levels of solvent(s) in alkyd paints out in the not-so-distant future. For older houses that have been repainted several times it's a safe choice as well--you don't really know what kind of cheap crap the last guy put on, and latex will go over oil and stick but oil won't go over latex and stick. If it's a tract house then the last guy was probably the builder and the paint was probably Monarch, the cheapest available. We regularly see five-six-seven year old homes with their trendy, exterior crown or other millwork rotting off due in no small part to poor detailing and cheap materials (which includes the choice of paint). -- NuWave Dave in Houston |
Sealing Pine Knots
Dave In Houston wrote:
"J. Clarke" wrote in message ... J T wrote: While I agree with your point, the fact that most houses are being painted with it now doesn't necessarily mean that it's good, only that it's politically correct. We are repeatedly reminded by our regular Benjamin Moore dealer (Southwestern Paint/FM 1960) that coming EPA regulations will mandate remaining levels of solvent(s) in alkyd paints out in the not-so-distant future. For older houses that have been repainted several times it's a safe choice as well--you don't really know what kind of cheap crap the last guy put on, and latex will go over oil and stick but oil won't go over latex and stick. If it's a tract house then the last guy was probably the builder and the paint was probably Monarch, the cheapest available. We regularly see five-six-seven year old homes with their trendy, exterior crown or other millwork rotting off due in no small part to poor detailing and cheap materials (which includes the choice of paint). Don't think the builder would have painted it white on top of blue on top of green. And I'm pretty sure there's a layer or two under the green. -- -- --John to email, dial "usenet" and validate (was jclarke at eye bee em dot net) |
Sealing Pine Knots
"J. Clarke" wrote in message ... ). Don't think the builder would have painted it white on top of blue on top of green. And I'm pretty sure there's a layer or two under the green. True enough; you're situation doesn't qualify. -- NuWave Dave in Houston |
Sealing Pine Knots
On Oct 25, 1:01 am, (J T) wrote:
Wed, Oct 24, 2007, 5:11pm (EDT-3) (Ferd Farkel) doth sayeth: snip Latex is good for rolling onto walls and not much else. You've obviously not been keeping informed. That's not the case anymore. Check to see what type of paint most houses are being painted with now.. What do you use for trim? For doors or bookshelves, where you don't want sticking and callbacks? |
Sealing Pine Knots
On Oct 24, 12:56 pm, "efgh" wrote:
I'd like to use something lighter in colour like a polyurethane but I'm wondering if has the same sealing results of shellac. Not sure, but shellac is faster. |
Sealing Pine Knots
Ferd Farkel wrote:
What do you use for trim? For doors or bookshelves, where you don't want sticking and callbacks? There are lots of good non-blocking latex paints available. |
Sealing Pine Knots
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Sealing Pine Knots
On Oct 25, 1:50 pm, B A R R Y wrote:
Ferd Farkel wrote: What do you use for trim? For doors or bookshelves, where you don't want sticking and callbacks? There are lots of good non-blocking latex paints available. Love to try one. What brands? |
Sealing Pine Knots
J T wrote:
Thu, Oct 25, 2007, 9:38am (EDT-3) (Ferd Farkel) doth query: What do you use for trim? For doors or bookshelves, where you don't want sticking and callbacks? Latex. Latex. Latex. Paint every damn near everything with latex. I'm even thinking of painting my truck with latex. The only thing I use oil base paint for anymore is painting my tools yellow. I'd use latex on them too, but I don't feel like being bothered with primer first. Actually you may not have much choice but to paint your truck with waterborne paint in a few more years. Not latex, but not oil either. Your tax dollars at work. -- -- --John to email, dial "usenet" and validate (was jclarke at eye bee em dot net) |
Sealing Pine Knots
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Sealing Pine Knots
Father Haskell wrote:
Love to try one. What brands? The last I used was Pratt & Lambert. It was a satin "antique white", leaning towards gray / violet. I know "antique white" narrows it down for maybe 500 colors. G No sticking at all on doors, bookshelves and CD shelves. I'm not anti-alkyd. I really like Ben Moore's "Fresh Start" primer for problem moist bathrooms. |
Sealing Pine Knots
J. Clarke wrote:
Actually you may not have much choice but to paint your truck with waterborne paint in a few more years. My '05 American-made Tacoma _is_ painted with waterborne, as it was built in Northern California. They've been doing this there for years. The same factory also builds Toyota Corollas and Pontiac Vibes -- http://www.nummi.com/home.php. From what I've seen with high-quality waterborne finishes, we shouldn't worry. I have no idea what paint is on Mexican-built Tacomas, though. G |
Sealing Pine Knots
J T wrote:
I bought a can of spray latex (yellow, of course), to try out. Used it on some old .50 ammo cans. Seemed to go on just as well as regular spray paint, and seems to be holding up as well too. Smelled better too. Back when I flew r/c combat, 7-8 years ago, I used spray latex on foam wings, as solvent based paint would eat the foam. I thought it worked pretty well then, and would imagine it getting better. |
Sealing Pine Knots
Maybe instead of just sealing the knots, seal the entire surface. It should
give you a consistent base then prime with an alkyd primer before painting. Kate "efgh" wrote in message news:ZFHTi.47565$%B2.3334@edtnps82... I've been using shellac to seal pine knots and I've been happy with the results in that the knot doesn't bleed through. The problem I have is that I usually end up painting the project with white paint which doesn't cover the shellaced spots very well. I have to put on at three coats of paint to cover it and even then, it still doesn't look very good. Before anyone suggests I switch to a different type of wood, I use pine because it's cheap and I don't mind covering it with paint. I'm not a big fan of using a hardwood to just cover it up with paint. Does anyone else use something besides shellac to seal the knots that works well when painted? I know Zinser makes a primer that includes shellac and I've used it before but after a year or so, the knots still bleed through. My method once sanding is complete is to put the shellac on the knots, sand lightly with 220 grit, then apply latex primer, sand again lightly with 220 grit, then apply latex paint. Thanks in advance. |
Sealing Pine Knots
I've used Kilz over pine, it DOES allow bleeding of tanins from the wood.
Sorry... Kate "SonomaProducts.com" wrote in message ps.com... If you are using bullseye shellac out of the can, it is not dewaded and could be one reason paint isn't coveriing well over it. Regardless, look for another product by Zinser called Killz (not sure about spelling). It is a covering primer that I think has some shellac in it. It is also perfect for covering sappy knots and is a white primer paint. I would do one complete base coat of this with maybe a liitle more where you have the knots, then the top coat of paint will be consistent. If you want to stick with shellac you can stry scuff sanding before you do a top coat. With Killz you can build it up thick and then sand it out to get a very smooth base for your paint, which is really reccomended for any over wood application if you want smooth finish. On Oct 24, 6:22 am, "efgh" wrote: I've been using shellac to seal pine knots and I've been happy with the results in that the knot doesn't bleed through. The problem I have is that I usually end up painting the project with white paint which doesn't cover the shellaced spots very well. I have to put on at three coats of paint to cover it and even then, it still doesn't look very good. Before anyone suggests I switch to a different type of wood, I use pine because it's cheap and I don't mind covering it with paint. I'm not a big fan of using a hardwood to just cover it up with paint. Does anyone else use something besides shellac to seal the knots that works well when painted? I know Zinser makes a primer that includes shellac and I've used it before but after a year or so, the knots still bleed through. My method once sanding is complete is to put the shellac on the knots, sand lightly with 220 grit, then apply latex primer, sand again lightly with 220 grit, then apply latex paint. Thanks in advance. |
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