Hello,

I am planning on buying a real jig saw. My 23 year old Black and Decker
died this weekend.

I have decided to fork out money for a quality jig saw. I have been looking
at the Dewalt DW321 and the Makita 4304T.

What do people recommend? They are about the same price. Any comments,
suggestions, advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance,
Mike

Michael wrote:

snipped

What do people recommend?

Mostly the Bosch 1587AVSK.

--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA

The Nov 2003 issue of PWW has contains a review of 12 jigsaws.

It included the Dewalt DW321 and the Makita 4341FCT.
The Makita took one of the "Editor's Choices"

Sounds like a timely article worth reading.

Ron

"Michael" wrote in message
...
Hello,

I am planning on buying a real jig saw. My 23 year old Black and Decker
died this weekend.

I have decided to fork out money for a quality jig saw. I have been
looking
at the Dewalt DW321 and the Makita 4304T.

What do people recommend? They are about the same price. Any comments,
suggestions, advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance,
Mike

What is PWW?
Mike

"Ron Angel" wrote in message
news:5u5eb.634518$Ho3.122934@sccrnsc03...
The Nov 2003 issue of PWW has contains a review of 12 jigsaws.

It included the Dewalt DW321 and the Makita 4341FCT.
The Makita took one of the "Editor's Choices"

Sounds like a timely article worth reading.

Ron

"Michael" wrote in message
...
Hello,

I am planning on buying a real jig saw. My 23 year old Black and Decker
died this weekend.

I have decided to fork out money for a quality jig saw. I have been
looking
at the Dewalt DW321 and the Makita 4304T.

What do people recommend? They are about the same price. Any comments,
suggestions, advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance,
Mike

"Michael" wrote in message
...
Hello,

I am planning on buying a real jig saw. My 23 year old Black and Decker
died this weekend.

I have decided to fork out money for a quality jig saw. I have been
looking
at the Dewalt DW321 and the Makita 4304T.

What do people recommend? They are about the same price. Any comments,
suggestions, advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance,
Mike

The DeWalt's have an inherent problem with not being able to hold on to the
blade during use. I have use used a friends and it does indeed spit out the
blade during use. It also is HUGE. Makita would be my choice given only
those 2 choices.

If you add Bosch or Milwaukee to that mix, you would probably end up
deciding between the Bosch and the Milwaukee. At the moment the Milwaukee
has the edge over the Bosch MOSTLY because of the Quick blade change set up.
The Bosch blade change setup is similar to working the combination a Safe,
as you turn the handle this way a few times, that way a few times, and
wiggle the blade until you hear a click and so on. The good news is that
Bosch has scrapped that set up for one similar to the Milwaukee and should
be available soon.

Bosch 1587AVSK ... I'd buy again if I had to..

... or a Milwaukee.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 9/21/03

"Michael" wrote in message
Hello,

I am planning on buying a real jig saw. My 23 year old Black and Decker
died this weekend.

I have decided to fork out money for a quality jig saw. I have been
looking
at the Dewalt DW321 and the Makita 4304T.

What do people recommend? They are about the same price. Any comments,
suggestions, advice would be greatly appreciated.

Popular wood working

[snip]

Milwaukee. Built like a brick outhouse. They are on closeout at Lowes
right now for $99.

Bob

"Michael" wrote in message
...
Hello,

I am planning on buying a real jig saw. My 23 year old Black and Decker
died this weekend.

I have decided to fork out money for a quality jig saw. I have been
looking
at the Dewalt DW321 and the Makita 4304T.

What do people recommend? They are about the same price. Any comments,
suggestions, advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance,
Mike

Michael wrote:

Hello,

I am planning on buying a real jig saw.

Bosch is very, very good. (The blade change does take a little while to get
used to.) Bosch makes both barrel grip and top handle models. I've got a
barrel grip, but I think most people prefer the top handle. I believe
Milwaukee also makes a barrel grip model.

--
--
Steve

Michael wrote:
I am planning on buying a real jig saw. My 23 year old Black and Decker
died this weekend.

I'm quite impressed with my Bosch....

--
************************************
Chris Merrill

(remove the ZZZ to contact me)
************************************

I have a Bosch GST 100 CE (don't think the model is available in the US)
but it's a beauty.

--
"Any PC built after 1985 has the storage capacity to house an evil spirit,"
Reverend Jim Peasboro

Just seems like nothing cuts as smooth
or precicely as the Bosch, and now you
don't have to chase after that long
skinny screwdriver to change the blades.

Leon wrote:

"Michael" wrote in message
...
Hello,

I am planning on buying a real jig saw. My 23 year old Black and Decker
died this weekend.

I have decided to fork out money for a quality jig saw. I have been
looking
at the Dewalt DW321 and the Makita 4304T.

What do people recommend? They are about the same price. Any comments,
suggestions, advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance,
Mike

The DeWalt's have an inherent problem with not being able to hold on to the
blade during use. I have use used a friends and it does indeed spit out the
blade during use. It also is HUGE. Makita would be my choice given only
those 2 choices.

If you add Bosch or Milwaukee to that mix, you would probably end up
deciding between the Bosch and the Milwaukee. At the moment the Milwaukee
has the edge over the Bosch MOSTLY because of the Quick blade change set up.
The Bosch blade change setup is similar to working the combination a Safe,
as you turn the handle this way a few times, that way a few times, and
wiggle the blade until you hear a click and so on. The good news is that
Bosch has scrapped that set up for one similar to the Milwaukee and should
be available soon.

I'm chimin' in here with Leon. Take a serious look at the Milwaukee.

Scott
--
An unkind remark is like a killing frost. No matter how much it warms
up later, the damage remains.

I just brought home a Bosch 1584AVSK. This is the barrell-grip type jig saw
they make.

I tried out 5 different blades on a scrap of poplar, just to see what kind
of finish they would give and to get a little practice with the tool.

What in God's name are you griping about in terms of the blade change on the
Bosch??? It takes maybe 20 seconds to change the blade, and the blade is
LOCKED in place.

I admit to having no experience with the Milwaukee, and obviously only a
very little experience with the Bosch, but I can't imagine that someone
would not choose this jigsaw because they thought changing blades was
somehow an issue because it isn't.

Moreover, this has to be the most solid, feature-rich jigsaw I've ever seen.
My previous experience was with a Skil 4 Amp orbital and a Craftsman one
from a long time ago, so I'm not surprised that the Bosch easily wins in my
estimation.

The tool was only $149 at the Home Despot, and I think it was well worth it.

Mike


--

There are no stupid questions.
There are a LOT of inquisitive idiots.


"Leon" wrote in message
...

"Michael" wrote in message
...
Hello,

I am planning on buying a real jig saw. My 23 year old Black and Decker
died this weekend.

I have decided to fork out money for a quality jig saw. I have been
looking
at the Dewalt DW321 and the Makita 4304T.

What do people recommend? They are about the same price. Any comments,
suggestions, advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance,
Mike

The DeWalt's have an inherent problem with not being able to hold on to
the
blade during use. I have use used a friends and it does indeed spit out
the
blade during use. It also is HUGE. Makita would be my choice given only
those 2 choices.

If you add Bosch or Milwaukee to that mix, you would probably end up
deciding between the Bosch and the Milwaukee. At the moment the Milwaukee
has the edge over the Bosch MOSTLY because of the Quick blade change set
up.
The Bosch blade change setup is similar to working the combination a Safe,
as you turn the handle this way a few times, that way a few times, and
wiggle the blade until you hear a click and so on. The good news is that
Bosch has scrapped that set up for one similar to the Milwaukee and should
be available soon.

In article ,
"Michael" wrote:

Hello,

I am planning on buying a real jig saw. My 23 year old Black and Decker
died this weekend.

I've used 2 Bosh (1 with the old long screwdriver blade change and 1
with the new plastic paddle), 1 DeWalt, a B&D, and a Craftsman. The
Craftsman and the B&D were nearly worthless and I only used them if I
had to. The DeWalt is 2 years old and has seen serious use, thick
maple, oak, aluminum, steel, countertop sink cutouts. It's every bit as
good as the Bosh units, with no blade slippage problems. Haven't used
the Makita or the Milwaukee, but I never met a Milwaukee tool I didn't
like.
Dean Bridges

On Mon, 29 Sep 2003 20:16:16 -0500, "Michael"
wrote:

Hello,

I am planning on buying a real jig saw. My 23 year old Black and Decker
died this weekend.

I have decided to fork out money for a quality jig saw. I have been looking
at the Dewalt DW321 and the Makita 4304T.

Well, my crappy old 20 year B&D still has 3 years to run?! It still
gives good enough service for hacking up ply.

But I did buy a new Bosch PST50 (Prob a different # in the USA) and
I'm pleased. It was on sale, and cuts smoother than a friend's Makita
(can't recall the #) that was close to twice the price. I find the
Bosch blade change system is very quick and positive. Now I have a
decent, but not very high-end, jigsaw, it gets a lot of use.

No experience with other brands.

Barry Lennox

Mike in Mystic wrote:

I just brought home a Bosch 1584AVSK. This is the barrell-grip type jig saw
they make.

I tried out 5 different blades on a scrap of poplar, just to see what kind
of finish they would give and to get a little practice with the tool.

What in God's name are you griping about in terms of the blade change on the
Bosch??? It takes maybe 20 seconds to change the blade, and the blade is
LOCKED in place.

Only takes about 5 seconds with the Milwaukee and the blade is LOCKED in
place. :-)

Scott
--
An unkind remark is like a killing frost. No matter how much it warms
up later, the damage remains.

I know, I know. But, my point was just that it isn't THAT big of a
difference to make or break a decision. The Bosch is a kick-butt jigsaw
(which I'm sure the Milwaukee is, too). I really wanted the barrel grip, so
that was my biggest decision maker, but all the other features are awesome,
too. And after changing the blade 5 times, I already know it won't bother
me at all and isn't going to frustrate me in the least.

Mike

"Scott Brownell" wrote in message
...
Mike in Mystic wrote:

I just brought home a Bosch 1584AVSK. This is the barrell-grip type jig
saw
they make.

I tried out 5 different blades on a scrap of poplar, just to see what
kind
of finish they would give and to get a little practice with the tool.

What in God's name are you griping about in terms of the blade change on
the
Bosch??? It takes maybe 20 seconds to change the blade, and the blade
is
LOCKED in place.

Only takes about 5 seconds with the Milwaukee and the blade is LOCKED in
place. :-)

Scott
--
An unkind remark is like a killing frost. No matter how much it warms
up later, the damage remains.

Before buying my Milwaukee 5 years ago I had used the Bosch and went to buy
the Bosch. The sales guy told me to compare Milwaukee to the Bosch. I
bought the Milwaukee. It was a no brainer.

If you use the saw a lot and have ever BROKEN a blade, you would appreciate
the Milwaukee blade change feature over the Bosch. While 20 seconds sounds
like a short amount of time, it becomes a pain if you remove the blade every
time to store the saw, up right in a cabinet as I do. The normal release
and install of a new blade on the Milwaukee is a 5 second ordeal with you
only needing to push a lever, pull out the blade, put in the blade and
release the lever. To put that into perspective,,,compare Dial Up
connection speed to DSL or Cable internet connection speed.. ;~)
IF, you break a blade and have little or nothing to grab, or if the blade is
too hot to handle or if you are in a hurry, simply push the lever while the
saw is still running and it will eject the blade or the "broken off flush
with the holder" piece of blade immediately.
You really have to experience it to really appreciate the difference in
convenience and time saved. Nothing wrong with the Bosch but the blade
change setup is way over engineered. The new Bosch saws are going the
Milwaukee route for blade change.



"Mike in Mystic" wrote in message
om...
I just brought home a Bosch 1584AVSK. This is the barrell-grip type jig
saw
they make.

I tried out 5 different blades on a scrap of poplar, just to see what kind
of finish they would give and to get a little practice with the tool.

What in God's name are you griping about in terms of the blade change on
the
Bosch??? It takes maybe 20 seconds to change the blade, and the blade is
LOCKED in place.

I admit to having no experience with the Milwaukee, and obviously only a
very little experience with the Bosch, but I can't imagine that someone
would not choose this jigsaw because they thought changing blades was
somehow an issue because it isn't.

Moreover, this has to be the most solid, feature-rich jigsaw I've ever
seen.
My previous experience was with a Skil 4 Amp orbital and a Craftsman one
from a long time ago, so I'm not surprised that the Bosch easily wins in
my
estimation.

The tool was only $149 at the Home Despot, and I think it was well worth
it.

Mike


--

There are no stupid questions.
There are a LOT of inquisitive idiots.


"Leon" wrote in message
...

"Michael" wrote in message
...
Hello,

I am planning on buying a real jig saw. My 23 year old Black and
Decker
died this weekend.

I have decided to fork out money for a quality jig saw. I have been
looking
at the Dewalt DW321 and the Makita 4304T.

What do people recommend? They are about the same price. Any
comments,
suggestions, advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance,
Mike

The DeWalt's have an inherent problem with not being able to hold on to
the
blade during use. I have use used a friends and it does indeed spit out
the
blade during use. It also is HUGE. Makita would be my choice given
only
those 2 choices.

If you add Bosch or Milwaukee to that mix, you would probably end up
deciding between the Bosch and the Milwaukee. At the moment the
Milwaukee
has the edge over the Bosch MOSTLY because of the Quick blade change set
up.
The Bosch blade change setup is similar to working the combination a
Safe,
as you turn the handle this way a few times, that way a few times, and
wiggle the blade until you hear a click and so on. The good news is
that
Bosch has scrapped that set up for one similar to the Milwaukee and shou
ld
be available soon.

Just thought I'd add to this. I have an old, old Bosch 1581 (no VS) that still
runs smoothly and cuts a tight line. I bought it used from a guy who had used
it commercially. Very durable tool. I also haven't found the 12" screwdiver
routine to be a problem. Nice and secure.

GTO(John)

"Leon" wrote in message
Before buying my Milwaukee 5 years ago I had used the Bosch and went
to buy
the Bosch. The sales guy told me to compare Milwaukee to the Bosch.
I
bought the Milwaukee. It was a no brainer.

If you use the saw a lot and have ever BROKEN a blade, you would
appreciate
the Milwaukee blade change feature over the Bosch. While 20 seconds
sounds
like a short amount of time, it becomes a pain if you remove the blade
every
time to store the saw, up right in a cabinet as I do. The normal
release
and install of a new blade on the Milwaukee is a 5 second ordeal with
you
only needing to push a lever, pull out the blade, put in the blade and
release the lever. To put that into perspective,,,compare Dial Up
connection speed to DSL or Cable internet connection speed.. ;~)
IF, you break a blade and have little or nothing to grab, or if the
blade is
too hot to handle or if you are in a hurry, simply push the lever
while the
saw is still running and it will eject the blade or the "broken off
flush
with the holder" piece of blade immediately.
You really have to experience it to really appreciate the difference
in
convenience and time saved. Nothing wrong with the Bosch but the
blade
change setup is way over engineered. The new Bosch saws are going the
Milwaukee route for blade change.

Well Leon, I had a new Milwaukee 6256-6, that I ended up putting on
eBay. Obviously you haven't used their new design, that new ergonomics
style does not go well with the small base considering the vibration.

I had test drove a coworkers Bosch 1587 AVS before buying the Milwaukee,
but felt it my duty to buy Milwaukee since my sawzall,router, drill are
the same. Should have stuck with that test drive, because that is what
I bought while the Milwaukee was listed on eBay. No regrets for selling
that tool.

You're making a bigger deal out of blade change than what it is, fact is
most woodworkers spend more time cutting than changing blades. I'll
take a smooth action precise tool anyday over the decision if I'm going
to spend a few seconds more per day changing a blade. I change blades
for cutting, not because they break, I use HSS blades and not those
carbon steel from HD or Lowes. Probably been three years since I've
actually broke a HSS blade.

Your perspective comparing blade changing of these two tools to Dial Up
and DSL, is far fetched if you really spent any time with the Bosch.

Mac

"Mac"

Well Leon, I had a new Milwaukee 6256-6, that I ended up putting on
eBay. Obviously you haven't used their new design, that new ergonomics
style does not go well with the small base considering the vibration.


Could be you got a lemon... Every manufacturer builds them...

You're making a bigger deal out of blade change than what it is, fact is
most woodworkers spend more time cutting than changing blades.


Well perhaps I do make a big deal about the blade change on the Milwaukee vs
the Bosch but as I have indicated, both are great saws. I make my living
now with my tools and time becomes money and by the way, I only use Bosch
blades. Sorry to hear that you had a problem with the Milwaukee and am glad
to hear that you are happy with your Bosch.


Your perspective comparing blade changing of these two tools to Dial Up
and DSL, is far fetched if you really spent any time with the Bosch.

No, the comparison was connection speed and not the experience after finally
getting a connection.

"GTO69RA4" wrote in message
...
Just thought I'd add to this. I have an old, old Bosch 1581 (no VS) that
still
runs smoothly and cuts a tight line. I bought it used from a guy who had
used
it commercially. Very durable tool. I also haven't found the 12"
screwdiver
routine to be a problem. Nice and secure.

GTO(John)


I would probably prefer the 12" screwdriver set up over the screw top set
ups offered on a couple of brands..

I see an odd resemblance between the basic 3 types of blade change set ups
on jig saws and the starter set ups used on lawn mowers in the last 40 years
;~)

Years ago lawn mower engines were started with a rope that was not connected
to the motor. You hooked the knotted end into a notch on a spool and wound
the rope around that spool and yanked the rope when you were ready. This
was repeated until the motor started. Simple, worked well, and effective.
I compare that to the jig saws and or saber saws that use a screw driver or
hex wrench to change blades.

Then, in the early 60's lawn mower motors no longer had those loose ropes
for starting. Some thing new and clever was introduced on the engines. A
spring loaded crank. You would grab the crank handle and wind it up several
times until the spring was good and tight and then close the crank onto
itself and it would disengage the spring which would spin the motor. You
would to this several times until the motor started. Really a unique way to
crank the motor but it became tiring and time consuming. But,,,, you no
longer had to worry about keeping up with that old rope. I compare the
twist top jig saws to that set up and not having to keep up with a
screwdriver or hex wrench to change blades. It works but is not really an
improvement, just evolution.

Then in the late 60's the crank motors lost their pizzazz and the latest
design evolved. For a good 30 years now, the motors have been using a rope
again that never comes off and rewinds itself automatically after every
pull. Much easier and simpler. I compare that to the latest designs being
offered by several of the jig saw manufacturers today. I suspect this
latest design will be around for a very long time.

I boughtthe Bosch when it came out because it WAS the biggest,
baddest, easiest and most whatever jig saw on the market at that
time. I have since been continually frustrated when doing a blade
change which resulted in my selling it this week and going after a
Milwaukee. I don't have time to sit there and mess around with the
fancy "Clik" method of changing blads. It did look good before I
bought it though. Many other slove it though so take it for what it is
worth.

On Tue, 30 Sep 2003 23:45:40 GMT, "Leon"
wrote:

Before buying my Milwaukee 5 years ago I had used the Bosch and went to buy
the Bosch. The sales guy told me to compare Milwaukee to the Bosch. I
bought the Milwaukee. It was a no brainer.

If you use the saw a lot and have ever BROKEN a blade, you would appreciate
the Milwaukee blade change feature over the Bosch. While 20 seconds sounds
like a short amount of time, it becomes a pain if you remove the blade every
time to store the saw, up right in a cabinet as I do. The normal release
and install of a new blade on the Milwaukee is a 5 second ordeal with you
only needing to push a lever, pull out the blade, put in the blade and
release the lever. To put that into perspective,,,compare Dial Up
connection speed to DSL or Cable internet connection speed.. ;~)
IF, you break a blade and have little or nothing to grab, or if the blade is
too hot to handle or if you are in a hurry, simply push the lever while the
saw is still running and it will eject the blade or the "broken off flush
with the holder" piece of blade immediately.
You really have to experience it to really appreciate the difference in
convenience and time saved. Nothing wrong with the Bosch but the blade
change setup is way over engineered. The new Bosch saws are going the
Milwaukee route for blade change.



"Mike in Mystic" wrote in message
. com...
I just brought home a Bosch 1584AVSK. This is the barrell-grip type jig
saw
they make.

I tried out 5 different blades on a scrap of poplar, just to see what kind
of finish they would give and to get a little practice with the tool.

What in God's name are you griping about in terms of the blade change on
the
Bosch??? It takes maybe 20 seconds to change the blade, and the blade is
LOCKED in place.

I admit to having no experience with the Milwaukee, and obviously only a
very little experience with the Bosch, but I can't imagine that someone
would not choose this jigsaw because they thought changing blades was
somehow an issue because it isn't.

Moreover, this has to be the most solid, feature-rich jigsaw I've ever
seen.
My previous experience was with a Skil 4 Amp orbital and a Craftsman one
from a long time ago, so I'm not surprised that the Bosch easily wins in
my
estimation.

The tool was only $149 at the Home Despot, and I think it was well worth
it.

Mike


--

There are no stupid questions.
There are a LOT of inquisitive idiots.


"Leon" wrote in message
...

"Michael" wrote in message
...
Hello,

I am planning on buying a real jig saw. My 23 year old Black and
Decker
died this weekend.

I have decided to fork out money for a quality jig saw. I have been
looking
at the Dewalt DW321 and the Makita 4304T.

What do people recommend? They are about the same price. Any
comments,
suggestions, advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance,
Mike

The DeWalt's have an inherent problem with not being able to hold on to
the
blade during use. I have use used a friends and it does indeed spit out
the
blade during use. It also is HUGE. Makita would be my choice given
only
those 2 choices.

If you add Bosch or Milwaukee to that mix, you would probably end up
deciding between the Bosch and the Milwaukee. At the moment the
Milwaukee
has the edge over the Bosch MOSTLY because of the Quick blade change set
up.
The Bosch blade change setup is similar to working the combination a
Safe,
as you turn the handle this way a few times, that way a few times, and
wiggle the blade until you hear a click and so on. The good news is
that
Bosch has scrapped that set up for one similar to the Milwaukee and shou
ld
be available soon.