That's why I'm going halves. While it's still money, 20-25k is more
in my ball park. I've done business dealings with the other guy
before, so the partnership detail is easy. My wife and I have become
accustomed to living below our means, so stuff like this is now
possible.

Owning the thing will
allow both of us to build hours for much less money after soloing.
Barry - this is possible. My accountant and I bought a Cessna 182 -
kept it for around 6 years, took on another partner then sold the
plane for a health profit. I logged around 250 hours and got my
instrument rating. When we sold the plane it pretty much covered my
entire cost of owning and flying the plane - basically, we owned it
for free (if you don't count the labor doing some of the maintenance
and grunt work on annuals etc). The only drawback is that you have to
put out the money during that time and it can get expensive. It hurts
to pay out a couple thousand for maintenance items etc. Good luck -
hope you enjoy it.

=
"Doug Winterburn" wrote in message
s.com...
On Sun, 21 Sep 2003 13:17:37 -0700, Kim Whitmyre wrote:


There is personal profit to be made, as always, in war. Unfortunately,
even if we neglect the ethical considerations, most of this profit goes
to a very, very small percentage of "Americans." Ergo, it's a losing
proposition for most Americans.

Possibly true, and by this same logic, since only 3000 out of 300,000,000
people were killed on 9/11, it's probably not much to worry about. Why,
that's only 1/10th of the number of automobile accident victims we have
every year, and nobody raises a fuss about that.

It's even worse. Of those 3,000 many were not Americans.
Lot's of people conveniently "forget" that.

Dennis Vogel

On Sun, 21 Sep 2003 21:51:21 -0400, Dennis wrote:

It's even worse. Of those 3,000 many were not Americans.
Lot's of people conveniently "forget" that.

For any who may have forgotten, here are the statistics:

http://66.223.12.161/september11Vict...ITIZENSHIP.htm

-Doug

In article m,
says...
On Sun, 21 Sep 2003 15:38:18 -0700, Kim Whitmyre wrote:


And even fewer raise a fuss about the foreign policy that has, over many
years, engendered the hatred that the towers are only a symptom of. . .I
guess as long as I'm fat and happy, the rest of the world can go to hell
in a handbasket, eh?

Logic?

Foreign policy makes no difference to radical Islam - they hate us because
we exist and we are infidels. The attacks around the world aren't aimed
at only the US, but also other infidels. We happen to be the most powerful
collection of infidels and are therefore a preferred target. That is the
logic of this war.

-Doug

Hey Doug, I got a bridge, for you cheap! And now let's not harass the
rec.woodworking forum any longer. . .

Kim

On Sun, 21 Sep 2003 20:23:17 -0700, Kim Whitmyre wrote:


Foreign policy makes no difference to radical Islam - they hate us because
we exist and we are infidels. The attacks around the world aren't aimed
at only the US, but also other infidels. We happen to be the most powerful
collection of infidels and are therefore a preferred target. That is the
logic of this war.

-Doug

Hey Doug, I got a bridge, for you cheap! And now let's not harass the
rec.woodworking forum any longer. . .

LOL - OK, but since you already bought that bridge, you can keep it. The
left, right and words of the murderers all say this is about converting us
or killing us...

http://abcnews.go.com/sections/night...war030911.html
http://www.nationalreview.com/murdock/murdock120302.asp

I don't have any idea who is feeding you the idea that 911 was our fault
instead of the fault of the murderers. I certainly don't plan on taking
up their beliefs to get them to stop their terrorism.

-Doug

todd wrote:
"Jeff Clausen" wrote in message
.. .

Wood prices in general including softwood lumber, plywood, osb and other
panel products have gone up since the start of the year for many reasons.


major snippage


The average WWPA framing lumber index (the price that mills
receive for their lumber) has been hovering near 20 year lows for the last
several years, yet I have not seen any such reduction in prices at the

local

lumber yards. My two cents worth.

Jeff Clausen

--
To reply you need to dig the sliver out.


Away, troll...don't come around here and go spouting off with your facts.
Most people here like it better when you just say it's due to the Bush
administration's lack of a national lumber policy or that probably
Haliburton is controlling the price of wood pulp on the Board of Trade. We
don't want to hear about exchange rates and forest fires.

todd


I think it's because of SUVs. SUVs are polluting the whole world and
running over everybody, so there is nobody left to chop trees down.

"arizonabigguy" wrote in message
...


todd wrote:
"Jeff Clausen" wrote in message
.. .

Wood prices in general including softwood lumber, plywood, osb and other
panel products have gone up since the start of the year for many
reasons.


major snippage


The average WWPA framing lumber index (the price that mills
receive for their lumber) has been hovering near 20 year lows for the
last
several years, yet I have not seen any such reduction in prices at the

local

lumber yards. My two cents worth.

Jeff Clausen

--
To reply you need to dig the sliver out.


Away, troll...don't come around here and go spouting off with your
facts.
Most people here like it better when you just say it's due to the Bush
administration's lack of a national lumber policy or that probably
Haliburton is controlling the price of wood pulp on the Board of Trade.
We
don't want to hear about exchange rates and forest fires.

todd


I think it's because of SUVs. SUVs are polluting the whole world and
running over everybody, so there is nobody left to chop trees down.


When I started building our new house, I told my wife it was going to be
worth a half a million bucks when i finished it. Little did I know.


--
JC from Gnat Flats, Texas
Home of the Notso OK Corral

In article ,
Ramsey wrote:

But Charlie, give credit where credit is due. The only people with a
worse track record of international screwups are the Btrit's. They
GAVE Iraq and the rest of the middle East away - and with it the oil.

Just a day or two ago I watched a book presentation on C-Span2 titled -
I think - "19 Weeks". The author stated that G.Britain was 6 months or
so away from total and absolute bankruptcy during the summer of 1940.
The British involvement in Western Europe as well as defending itself
during the Battle of Britain cost the country extreme amounts of money.
In his opinion that was the turning point of the British Empire losing
its dominance as a world power and its need to lighten the load of all
its colonies. They spent so much during such a short period of time and
just couldn't afford to maintain the far reaches.

--
Owen Lowe and his Fly-by-Night Copper Company
Offering a shim for the Porter-Cable 557 type 2 fence design.
http://www.flybynightcoppercompany.com
http://www.easystreet.com/~onlnlowe/index.html

Owen Lowe responds:

The author stated that G.Britain was 6 months or
so away from total and absolute bankruptcy during the summer of 1940.
The British involvement in Western Europe as well as defending itself
during the Battle of Britain cost the country extreme amounts of money.
In his opinion that was the turning point of the British Empire losing
its dominance as a world power and its need to lighten the load of all
its colonies. They spent so much during such a short period of time and
just couldn't afford to maintain the far reaches.

Sounds like deja vu backwards, doesn't it?

Charlie Self

"Don't hit at all if it is honorably possible to avoid hitting; but never hit
soft."
Theodore Roosevelt

I had never heard that but it makes sense. When you look at all the
trouble areas in the world today, many came from Britian and the way
they divided up/split the countries and to whom they gave them to.
Israel/Palestine, Iraq/Iran/etc., India/Pakistan, others, Egypt, heck
they owned most of the world it seems like. When they left Israel,
they couln't even leave at the correct hour; left an hour early and it
caught the Arabs off gurd and the Israeli's moved in. Anyway, thanks
for the information. I had not even considered tat. Happens all too
often when you look at problems and go (almost) to the source.



On Mon, 22 Sep 2003 23:07:11 -0700, Fly-by-Night CC
wrote:

In article ,
Ramsey wrote:

But Charlie, give credit where credit is due. The only people with a
worse track record of international screwups are the Btrit's. They
GAVE Iraq and the rest of the middle East away - and with it the oil.

Just a day or two ago I watched a book presentation on C-Span2 titled -
I think - "19 Weeks". The author stated that G.Britain was 6 months or
so away from total and absolute bankruptcy during the summer of 1940.
The British involvement in Western Europe as well as defending itself
during the Battle of Britain cost the country extreme amounts of money.
In his opinion that was the turning point of the British Empire losing
its dominance as a world power and its need to lighten the load of all
its colonies. They spent so much during such a short period of time and
just couldn't afford to maintain the far reaches.

In rec.woodworking
otforme (Charlie Self) wrote:

Owen Lowe responds:

The author stated that G.Britain was 6 months or
so away from total and absolute bankruptcy during the summer of 1940.
The British involvement in Western Europe as well as defending itself
during the Battle of Britain cost the country extreme amounts of money.
In his opinion that was the turning point of the British Empire losing
its dominance as a world power and its need to lighten the load of all
its colonies. They spent so much during such a short period of time and
just couldn't afford to maintain the far reaches.

Sounds like deja vu backwards, doesn't it?

Sounds like the Monopoly Game when you have to sell a property to pay rent
on someone elses. Once that happens, its all over but the crying.

I totally Disagree. Poor has become increasingly relative with Loans,
Credit and plastic.
I have known individuals with salaries close to mine (at the time mine was 8
and hour theirs wasn't more than 10-15) Running around in brand-new shiny
something's that would take them 6 years to pay off.
As for Planes, boats, etc. They are all hobbies. Just as you might spend 3
grand a year feeding your WW habit. Some just spend that on flying or
boating.
Besides, not many of you buy a Powermatic with your two neighbors.
If you consider what I paid so I could make/build stuff (apparently I
haven't gotten much further than a hobby for the most part) with an
education, the flyers still come out on top even with training/license.

--
Young Carpenter

"Violin playing and Woodworking are similar, it takes plenty of money,
plenty of practice, and you usually make way more noise than intended"

"Charlie Self" wrote in message
...
Barry Burke responds:

Very few "poor" people own planes.

Nor do they own boats, R/V's, race cars, vacation homes, custom
motorcycles, horses, or really nice in ground swimming pools, but many
"average" folks I know do.

And damned few poor folks own SUVs. Too bad ownership hasn't remained
confined
to people will to take them where they belong, off-road.

Charlie Self

"Patriotism is not short, frenzied outbursts of emotion, but the tranquil
and
steady dedication of a lifetime. "
Adlai E. Stevenson

















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The at the pump gouging right now starts somewhere that is not the US.
Just in case you haven't heard, OPEC is cutting production rates, AGAIN.

--
Young Carpenter

"Violin playing and Woodworking are similar, it takes plenty of money,
plenty of practice, and you usually make way more noise than intended"

"Charlie Self" wrote in message
...
Dave Hall asks:

(Charlie Self) wrote in message
LOTS OF SNIPPAGE
But I'm not exactly sure how a windfall profits tax could have done so
much
damage: it taxed only excess profits.
SNIP SOME MORE
Charlie Self

What exactly are "excess profits". More than you get? More than you
think someone should get? 1%, 10%, 500%, 5000% ??? If you sell an
article or book, how do we determine how much of your profits are
"excess" so we can take them all?

Dave, c'mon. That's nonsense. The windfall profits tax hit profits that
exceeded those in a normal year by something like 1000%. It did stop the
kind
of at-the-pump-gouging we're getting now. Maybe it was unfair to
business--pardon me while I choke at the total unfairness to bidness in
this
country over the past couple decades.

Collusion and price fixing are criminal acts and should be prosecuted.
However, like any crime, you should be able to prove it and not punish
someone simply because you are envious or because you covet something
they have and don't want to pay their asking price.

I'm not exactly sure how you get covetessness out of a windfall profits
tax,
nor do I much care, but it does seem that you might have some form to your
argument other than an insult. Otherwise, your argument doesn't stand up
at all
well.

Charlie Self

"Patriotism is not short, frenzied outbursts of emotion, but the tranquil
and
steady dedication of a lifetime. "
Adlai E. Stevenson

















-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----

Hmmm
Makes me think of a statement I heard yesterday made by a founding father.
It Started out "This government was made for a moral people....." The basic
Gist is our government was designed to keep a basically honest people
honest. As soon as The dishonest people became prevalent (E.g. monopolies,
unfair employers) the Laws/regulations in the book grew in number.

--
Young Carpenter

"Violin playing and Woodworking are similar, it takes plenty of money,
plenty of practice, and you usually make way more noise than intended"

"Mike in Mystic" wrote in message
...
You're a Democrat, aren't you, Charlie?

I, for one, think we are already over-regulated. Sure, there are cases
where some controls might be appropriate, but in general I feel that in
terms of government "Less is More".

Mike

--

There are no stupid questions.
There are a LOT of inquisitive idiots.


"Charlie Self" wrote in message
...
bruce writes:

It is probable that we need to return to the early '70s and the
windfall
profit
tax laws. A lot of this price gouging would disappear if there were no
extra
profits made.

Sure, let's kill the industry again. I lived through that ill
conceived
idea, right her in Texas buddy. It put hundreds of thousands on the
streets and killed the city of Houston for a decade. Screw that.

You want to talk windfall profits? Take a look at pharamacuticals,
banking, finance and medicine and leave the god damn oil industry
alone.

Sure. Let 'em gouge the consumer to keep some others working.

I can't argue at least the pharmaceuticals need controls, but what they
really
need is there is a share-out with other countries for the R&D, so the
U.S.
consumer doesn't pay the entire load for the entire world. The medical
industry
is a real case. I don't even begin to know what the solution is.

But I'm not exactly sure how a windfall profits tax could have done so
much
damage: it taxed only excess profits.

Check your info. I think it was the Arabs and their shutting off the oil
taps
that created the Houson problem.

If it wasn't, and the oil industry needs to screw the consumer more than
it
normally does just to stay in business, then it's really time for
tighter
regulation.

Charlie Self

"Patriotism is not short, frenzied outbursts of emotion, but the
tranquil
and
steady dedication of a lifetime. "
Adlai E. Stevenson



















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http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
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More accurately, laws increased as "rights" of individuals overtook their
sense of obligation.

Paranoia noted.

"Young Carpenter" wrote in message
...
Hmmm
Makes me think of a statement I heard yesterday made by a founding father.
It Started out "This government was made for a moral people....." The
basic
Gist is our government was designed to keep a basically honest people
honest. As soon as The dishonest people became prevalent (E.g.
monopolies,
unfair employers) the Laws/regulations in the book grew in number.

Young Carpenter writes:

The at the pump gouging right now starts somewhere that is not the US.
Just in case you haven't heard, OPEC is cutting production rates, AGAIN.


Of course they are. The price just started to moderate here. And you think
there's no collusion with U.S. refiners and distributors?

Charlie Self

"Don't hit at all if it is honorably possible to avoid hitting; but never hit
soft."
Theodore Roosevelt

There we go, a less cumbersome statement meaning the same thing.

--
Young Carpenter

"Violin playing and Woodworking are similar, it takes plenty of money,
plenty of practice, and you usually make way more noise than intended"

"George" wrote in message
...
More accurately, laws increased as "rights" of individuals overtook their
sense of obligation.

Paranoia noted.

"Young Carpenter" wrote in message
...
Hmmm
Makes me think of a statement I heard yesterday made by a founding
father.
It Started out "This government was made for a moral people....." The
basic
Gist is our government was designed to keep a basically honest people
honest. As soon as The dishonest people became prevalent (E.g.
monopolies,
unfair employers) the Laws/regulations in the book grew in number.







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http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
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