Saw a piece on TV last night where the price of wood (ply/OSB etc) is
going sky high because the Fed Gov is buying huge amounts to do some
rebuilding in Iraq. They showed a guy here (Albuquerque) who was adding
a room, old cost $14k, new cost with wood prices going up, $20k. They
interviewed a contractor who also verified the huge price increases in
the wood he's purchasing to build homes. Mind you, NOBODY has said
anything about any sort of shortage (which there will not be). They
said the 4x8 sheet of what they called 'wafer board' that cost $7 last
month was at $20 now and still climbing. I may have to hold off
building the storage shed I'd planned on doing. WTF is wrong with this
picture.

In rec.woodworking
Grandpa wrote:

Saw a piece on TV last night where the price of wood (ply/OSB etc) is
going sky high because the Fed Gov is buying huge amounts to do some
rebuilding in Iraq. They showed a guy here (Albuquerque) who was adding
a room, old cost $14k, new cost with wood prices going up, $20k. They
interviewed a contractor who also verified the huge price increases in
the wood he's purchasing to build homes. Mind you, NOBODY has said
anything about any sort of shortage (which there will not be). They
said the 4x8 sheet of what they called 'wafer board' that cost $7 last
month was at $20 now and still climbing. I may have to hold off
building the storage shed I'd planned on doing. WTF is wrong with this
picture.

We're the only nation that blows up countries then puts them back together
again. Kuwait, Bosnia, Yugoslavia, Afghanistan, Iraq and now sights are
being set on N. Korea, Iran, take your pick.. Wouldn't it be a lot less
trouble to not blow them up in the first place?

As for plywood, the demand in Iraq is NOT the reason for the increase
according to an article posted her a few weeks ago. Search the archives.

The wood industry has adopted the Oil industry way of pricing.

On Thu, 18 Sep 2003 03:33:06 +0000, Leon wrote:

The wood industry has adopted the Oil industry way of pricing.

We had the tip of the gasoline price thing here in Phoenix, supposedly because
of a pipeline rupture between Tucson and Phoenix (the gas comes from Texas
via pipeline to Tucson). 3/4ths of the Phoenix supply comes from California via
another pipeline (owned by the same people as the Tucson/Phoenix
pipeline).

Took a month to drive to Washington State, and what to my bewildered eyes
should appear but hugely escalating gasoline prices because of a pipeline
rupture in Arizona? I keep trying to understand the connection,
especially since everything I read says no supply problem, but still
searching for an answer.

-Doug

I live in Houston,,,Premium hit $1.84 a gallon, and a very large percentage
of the nations refineries for gasoline are here.. Never was a shortage here
either...

We're the only nation that blows up countries then puts them back together
again.

I think we are still trying to recreate the success we had with the Marshall
plan. I bet there are people making money in Vietnam, just not us "poor" folks.
We did create a market for Marlboros there.
I assume our long range plan in Iraq is to create a consumer culture so we can
get our oil money back. How much we spend for oil is not as important to the
fat cats as where THEY spend the money we ship over there. Unfortunately we
don't make much here to sell them.

On Thu, 18 Sep 2003 04:16:08 GMT, "Leon"
Crawled out of the shop and said. . .:

I live in Houston,,,Premium hit $1.84 a gallon, and a very large percentage
of the nations refineries for gasoline are here.. Never was a shortage here
either...



hell up here in the twin cities area we have three major pipeline
heads, and two refineries fed straight outta the gulf. . . never had a
pipeline bust open and yet, strangely every time one "breaks"
somewhere else, or there is a major blackout, or a fly lands on a
beanstalk in the mediterranean, , , we suck on it at the pumps.
price is finally below 1.60 here from labor day...

Traves

Of course wood prices are going up. That stuff doesn't grow on trees, you
know.

Lee

--
To e-mail, replace "bucketofspam" with "dleegordon"

Doug Winterburn notes:


Took a month to drive to Washington State, and what to my bewildered eyes
should appear but hugely escalating gasoline prices because of a pipeline
rupture in Arizona? I keep trying to understand the connection,
especially since everything I read says no supply problem, but still
searching for an answer.


It is probable that we need to return to the early '70s and the windfall profit
tax laws. A lot of this price gouging would disappear if there were no extra
profits made.

Charlie Self

"Integrity without knowledge is weak and useless, and knowledge without
integrity is dangerous and dreadful."
Samuel Johnson

Heck, we maxed at about $1.89 for low grade, premium was something around
$2.15. I think it's still about $1.75 for 87 octane.

I'm all for free markets, but it definitely makes you ponder things like
"price fixing" and "collusion" when every different gas station has prices
within $0.03 of each other and all change them at exactly the same time.
Doesn't really smell like market competition to me.

Even so, we still pay a crapload less than just about everywhere in the
world for gas, so it could be worse.

Mike

"Leon" wrote in message
y.com...
I live in Houston,,,Premium hit $1.84 a gallon, and a very large
percentage
of the nations refineries for gasoline are here.. Never was a shortage
here
either...

On Thu, 18 Sep 2003 04:16:08 GMT, "Leon"
wrote:

I live in Houston,,,Premium hit $1.84 a gallon,

Premium hit? G

Premium here in CT is currently $1.98-$2.05. Yesterday I paid $2.01
for my 93 octane lawn mower gas. We paid $2.99 a gallon last weekend
for 100LL aviation gas for my buddy's plane, and that has a lot less
taxes than "street gas".

87 octane is $1.79-$1.90.

Barry

"B a r r y B u r k e J r ."
Premium hit? G

Premium here in CT is currently $1.98-$2.05. Yesterday I paid $2.01
for my 93 octane lawn mower gas. We paid $2.99 a gallon last weekend
for 100LL aviation gas for my buddy's plane, and that has a lot less
taxes than "street gas".

87 octane is $1.79-$1.90.


Yeah but you live in CT, every thing there is within spittin distance.. ;~)
A typical to work and back trip is 40 miles in Houston. PLUS..!!!! All you
CT folk is rich ain't ya???? I guess we all could be in CA... LOL

Dontcha know:
*the NE blackout caused a refinery to close for 4 days and

*folks decided to take vacations, just as their kids are getting back
to school and

* someone discoved the mideast is unsettled (nothing to do
w/population)

Renata



On Thu, 18 Sep 2003 04:05:13 GMT, "Doug Winterburn"
wrote:

On Thu, 18 Sep 2003 03:33:06 +0000, Leon wrote:

The wood industry has adopted the Oil industry way of pricing.

We had the tip of the gasoline price thing here in Phoenix, supposedly because
of a pipeline rupture between Tucson and Phoenix (the gas comes from Texas
via pipeline to Tucson). 3/4ths of the Phoenix supply comes from California via
another pipeline (owned by the same people as the Tucson/Phoenix
pipeline).

Took a month to drive to Washington State, and what to my bewildered eyes
should appear but hugely escalating gasoline prices because of a pipeline
rupture in Arizona? I keep trying to understand the connection,
especially since everything I read says no supply problem, but still
searching for an answer.

-Doug

haha

I'm in CT, too and my wife drives 52 miles each way to work, and that's
usually in an SUV that get's 18 mpg on a good day. The last 3 times
I've filled up I had to pay over $30.

Of course, I only drive 6 miles each way to work, so I'm not really
complaining.

Mike

--

There are no stupid questions.
There are a LOT of inquisitive idiots.


"Leon" wrote in message
. ..

"B a r r y B u r k e J r ."
Premium hit? G

Premium here in CT is currently $1.98-$2.05. Yesterday I paid $2.01
for my 93 octane lawn mower gas. We paid $2.99 a gallon last weekend
for 100LL aviation gas for my buddy's plane, and that has a lot less
taxes than "street gas".

87 octane is $1.79-$1.90.


Yeah but you live in CT, every thing there is within spittin distance..
;~)
A typical to work and back trip is 40 miles in Houston. PLUS..!!!! All
you
CT folk is rich ain't ya???? I guess we all could be in CA... LOL

In article ,
ts says...
Doesn't really smell like market competition to me.

Even so, we still pay a crapload less than just about everywhere in the
world for gas, so it could be worse.

I just heard the Thief-in-Chief mention 87 Billion dollars. . .And most
everyone else said that was just starters! It is worse!

Kim

On Thu, 18 Sep 2003 08:00:06 -0700, Kim Whitmyre wrote:


I just heard the Thief-in-Chief mention 87 Billion dollars. . .And most
everyone else said that was just starters! It is worse!

I heard the Congress mention 400 billion dollars for drugs for everyone -
including Bill Gates - And that is just for starters. It is _much_ worse.

-Doug

"Leon" wrote in message
y.com...
I live in Houston,,,Premium hit $1.84 a gallon, and a very large
percentage
of the nations refineries for gasoline are here.. Never was a shortage
here
either...


Yes there was! Didn't you see that fuel delivery truck broke down on the
LaPorte Freeway last week? That was the reason supply was so short for a few
minutes. Then, they let it slip that the truck was on it's way back from a
delivery. And the price immediately dropped a nickel. G

It's the old "any refuge in a storm" theory. "Any reason to gouge a
nickel".


--
JC from Gnat Flats, Texas
Home of the Notso OK Corral

"Lee Gordon" wrote in message
news:wKdab.495907$uu5.85169@sccrnsc04...
Of course wood prices are going up. That stuff doesn't grow on trees, you
know.

Lee

Yea, everybody knows OSB is made out of chips and particle board is made out
of sawdust.


--
JC from Gnat Flats, Texas
Home of the Notso OK Corral

In article ,
says...
Saw a piece on TV last night where the price of wood (ply/OSB etc) is
going sky high because the Fed Gov is buying huge amounts to do some
rebuilding in Iraq.

The article in our newspaper this morning said the Iraq purchases would
have been a momentary blip if not for other factors coinciding. I don't
remember them all, but one was that the mills had cut back production
last fall vecause of low prices so reserve supply was nil.

And then there's Isobel :-).

--
Where ARE those Iraqi WMDs?

"Charlie Self" wrote in message
...

It is probable that we need to return to the early '70s and the windfall
profit
tax laws. A lot of this price gouging would disappear if there were no
extra
profits made.

Bwaaa ha ha! That's a good one. Got any more?

Don't expect anyone in Washington to give a rat's
ass about windfall profits and price gouging. They
think that's just the market at work. Bwaaa ha ha!

Dennis Vogel

"Bruce" wrote in message
. ..
In rec.woodworking
We're the only nation that blows up countries then puts them back together
again. Kuwait, Bosnia, Yugoslavia, Afghanistan, Iraq and now sights are
being set on N. Korea, Iran, take your pick.. Wouldn't it be a lot less
trouble to not blow them up in the first place?

Less trouble - dunno 'bout that - but sure as hell wouldn't give us the
Test Platform we need for these new weapons...

Dennis Vogel responds:

It is probable that we need to return to the early '70s and the windfall
profit
tax laws. A lot of this price gouging would disappear if there were no
extra
profits made.

Bwaaa ha ha! That's a good one. Got any more?

Don't expect anyone in Washington to give a rat's
ass about windfall profits and price gouging. They
think that's just the market at work. Bwaaa ha ha!

Dunno, but if memory serves, Nixon was the one who introduced the windfall
profits regulations during our first, greatest gas crisis (another invention of
our Middle Eastern buddies).

Hard to believe, isn't it?

Charlie Self

"Integrity without knowledge is weak and useless, and knowledge without
integrity is dangerous and dreadful."
Samuel Johnson

But Charlie, give credit where credit is due. The only people with a
worse track record of international screwups are the Btrit's. They
GAVE Iraq and the rest of the middle East away - and with it the oil.
Woops. Forgot the French. But they are so sorry they are a lesson unto
themselves.



On 18 Sep 2003 18:08:25 GMT, otforme (Charlie Self)
wrote:

Dennis Vogel responds:

It is probable that we need to return to the early '70s and the windfall
profit
tax laws. A lot of this price gouging would disappear if there were no
extra
profits made.

Bwaaa ha ha! That's a good one. Got any more?

Don't expect anyone in Washington to give a rat's
ass about windfall profits and price gouging. They
think that's just the market at work. Bwaaa ha ha!

Dunno, but if memory serves, Nixon was the one who introduced the windfall
profits regulations during our first, greatest gas crisis (another invention of
our Middle Eastern buddies).

Hard to believe, isn't it?

Charlie Self

"Integrity without knowledge is weak and useless, and knowledge without
integrity is dangerous and dreadful."
Samuel Johnson

The British gave away the Middle East?...what an interesting way to think of
someone else's land.

John Emmons

"Ramsey" wrote in message
...

But Charlie, give credit where credit is due. The only people with a
worse track record of international screwups are the Btrit's. They
GAVE Iraq and the rest of the middle East away - and with it the oil.
Woops. Forgot the French. But they are so sorry they are a lesson unto
themselves.



On 18 Sep 2003 18:08:25 GMT, otforme (Charlie Self)
wrote:

Dennis Vogel responds:

It is probable that we need to return to the early '70s and the
windfall
profit
tax laws. A lot of this price gouging would disappear if there were no
extra
profits made.

Bwaaa ha ha! That's a good one. Got any more?

Don't expect anyone in Washington to give a rat's
ass about windfall profits and price gouging. They
think that's just the market at work. Bwaaa ha ha!

Dunno, but if memory serves, Nixon was the one who introduced the
windfall
profits regulations during our first, greatest gas crisis (another
invention of
our Middle Eastern buddies).

Hard to believe, isn't it?

Charlie Self

"Integrity without knowledge is weak and useless, and knowledge without
integrity is dangerous and dreadful."
Samuel Johnson

In article m,
says...
On Thu, 18 Sep 2003 08:00:06 -0700, Kim Whitmyre wrote:


I just heard the Thief-in-Chief mention 87 Billion dollars. . .And most
everyone else said that was just starters! It is worse!

I heard the Congress mention 400 billion dollars for drugs for everyone -
including Bill Gates - And that is just for starters. It is _much_ worse.

-Doug

Rather have such for Americans than fork it over for imperial ambitions.
.. .

Kim

Mike in Mystic wrote:

haha

I'm in CT, too and my wife drives 52 miles each way to work, and that's
usually in an SUV that get's 18 mpg on a good day. The last 3 times
I've filled up I had to pay over $30.

It cost me $15 to fill up my car. I'll have to fill it up again in late
October or early November.

I probably get worse mileage than that SUV because of some un-fixable
ignition problem, but I only drive an average of 18 miles a week. (Well,
to work and back anyway. I actually drive an average of 2,000 miles a
week, but that's another matter.)

--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
Confirmed post number: 17826 Approximate word count: 534780
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/

On Thu, 18 Sep 2003 12:56:05 -0700, Kim Whitmyre wrote:


I heard the Congress mention 400 billion dollars for drugs for everyone -
including Bill Gates - And that is just for starters. It is _much_ worse.

-Doug

Rather have such for Americans than fork it over for imperial ambitions.

I'd rather not as I have perfectly good private drug coverage that will go the way
of the dodo bird if this passes, and with government efficiency to replace
it :-( Seems rather strange to provide taxpayer paid benefits to people who
have already provided those benefits for themselves. I'd much rather pay
the 400 billion to fight and defeat those who would harm us in their own
lairs rather than waiting for them to come to us as we know they will if
we do nothing.

-Doug

"Silvan" wrote in message
...
Mike in Mystic wrote:

haha

I'm in CT, too and my wife drives 52 miles each way to work, and that's
usually in an SUV that get's 18 mpg on a good day. The last 3 times
I've filled up I had to pay over $30.

It cost me $15 to fill up my car. I'll have to fill it up again in late
October or early November.



OK,, Yugo's don't count..

It cost me $15 to fill up my car. I'll have to fill it up again in late
October or early November.



OK,, Yugo's don't count..

Hehe, I've got a '90 Caprice with a 24.5 gallon tank. . . Premium is
still over $2 here in Southern California. I try to fill it before its
half empty, seems better that way ;~)

Kim

Reminds me of this joke I heard in OK. Says this farmer: what do you mean,
gas prices are higher? I don't notice. I always fill up for $10 at the same
station.
HNB

"Kim Whitmyre" wrote in message
m...

It cost me $15 to fill up my car. I'll have to fill it up again in
late
October or early November.



OK,, Yugo's don't count..

Hehe, I've got a '90 Caprice with a 24.5 gallon tank. . . Premium is
still over $2 here in Southern California. I try to fill it before its
half empty, seems better that way ;~)

Kim

Now she could be fun. Luckily I don't foresee her leaving a wake like
Andrew or I might pack up and go contract out of my car


--
Young Carpenter

"Violin playing and Woodworking are similar, it takes plenty of money,
plenty of practice, and you usually make way more noise than intended"

"Larry Blanchard" wrote in message
...
In article ,
says...
Saw a piece on TV last night where the price of wood (ply/OSB etc) is
going sky high because the Fed Gov is buying huge amounts to do some
rebuilding in Iraq.

The article in our newspaper this morning said the Iraq purchases would
have been a momentary blip if not for other factors coinciding. I don't
remember them all, but one was that the mills had cut back production
last fall vecause of low prices so reserve supply was nil.

And then there's Isobel :-).

--
Where ARE those Iraqi WMDs?




-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----

Builder online article (or was it JLC) gave an overview. It is not actually
rebuilding Iraq. Iraq is more like Florida, there isn't much you want to
build outa wood if you can help it. The wood is actually supplying the
military.
No shortage? Well yes and know. Short here but no shortage of stock. I
could go into the part about tree huggers and spotted owls putting 1,000s of
people out of work over the past 10 years.

--
Young Carpenter

"Violin playing and Woodworking are similar, it takes plenty of money,
plenty of practice, and you usually make way more noise than intended"

"Bruce" wrote in message
. ..
In rec.woodworking
Grandpa wrote:

Saw a piece on TV last night where the price of wood (ply/OSB etc) is
going sky high because the Fed Gov is buying huge amounts to do some
rebuilding in Iraq. They showed a guy here (Albuquerque) who was adding
a room, old cost $14k, new cost with wood prices going up, $20k. They
interviewed a contractor who also verified the huge price increases in
the wood he's purchasing to build homes. Mind you, NOBODY has said
anything about any sort of shortage (which there will not be). They
said the 4x8 sheet of what they called 'wafer board' that cost $7 last
month was at $20 now and still climbing. I may have to hold off
building the storage shed I'd planned on doing. WTF is wrong with this
picture.

We're the only nation that blows up countries then puts them back together
again. Kuwait, Bosnia, Yugoslavia, Afghanistan, Iraq and now sights are
being set on N. Korea, Iran, take your pick.. Wouldn't it be a lot less
trouble to not blow them up in the first place?

As for plywood, the demand in Iraq is NOT the reason for the increase
according to an article posted her a few weeks ago. Search the archives.




-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----

Bruce wrote:

In rec.woodworking
Grandpa wrote:


Saw a piece on TV last night where the price of wood (ply/OSB etc) is
going sky high because the Fed Gov is buying huge amounts to do some
rebuilding in Iraq. They showed a guy here (Albuquerque) who was adding
a room, old cost $14k, new cost with wood prices going up, $20k. They
interviewed a contractor who also verified the huge price increases in
the wood he's purchasing to build homes. Mind you, NOBODY has said
anything about any sort of shortage (which there will not be). They
said the 4x8 sheet of what they called 'wafer board' that cost $7 last
month was at $20 now and still climbing. I may have to hold off
building the storage shed I'd planned on doing. WTF is wrong with this
picture.


We're the only nation that blows up countries then puts them back together
again. Kuwait, Bosnia, Yugoslavia, Afghanistan, Iraq and now sights are
being set on N. Korea, Iran, take your pick.. Wouldn't it be a lot less
trouble to not blow them up in the first place?

As for plywood, the demand in Iraq is NOT the reason for the increase
according to an article posted her a few weeks ago. Search the archives.

I was simply relaying what our local news said. IMO its BS as I don't
forsee the Gov ever buying enough wood here to ship over there such that
it would increase prices 3+ fold. I agree with Leon, Oil Industry
pricing, aka creative financing and scalping.

Leon wrote:

It cost me $15 to fill up my car. I'll have to fill it up again in late
October or early November.

OK,, Yugo's don't count..

It's a 1987 Oldsmobile thank you very much.

--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
Confirmed post number: 17832 Approximate word count: 534960
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/

In rec.woodworking
otforme (Charlie Self) wrote:

It is probable that we need to return to the early '70s and the windfall profit
tax laws. A lot of this price gouging would disappear if there were no extra
profits made.

Sure, let's kill the industry again. I lived through that ill conceived
idea, right her in Texas buddy. It put hundreds of thousands on the
streets and killed the city of Houston for a decade. Screw that.

You want to talk windfall profits? Take a look at pharamacuticals,
banking, finance and medicine and leave the god damn oil industry alone.

In rec.woodworking
B a r r y B u r k e J r . wrote:

We paid $2.99 a gallon last weekend
for 100LL aviation gas for my buddy's plane, and that has a lot less

Well, to quote a Anthony Hopkins movie line, "Never feel sorry for a man
that owns his own plane."

In rec.woodworking
"Leon" wrote:

A typical to work and back trip is 40 miles in Houston. PLUS..!!!!

Plus is right. I drive Katy to the Astrodome area, 37 miles EACH way!!

bruce writes:

It is probable that we need to return to the early '70s and the windfall
profit
tax laws. A lot of this price gouging would disappear if there were no extra
profits made.

Sure, let's kill the industry again. I lived through that ill conceived
idea, right her in Texas buddy. It put hundreds of thousands on the
streets and killed the city of Houston for a decade. Screw that.

You want to talk windfall profits? Take a look at pharamacuticals,
banking, finance and medicine and leave the god damn oil industry alone.

Sure. Let 'em gouge the consumer to keep some others working.

I can't argue at least the pharmaceuticals need controls, but what they really
need is there is a share-out with other countries for the R&D, so the U.S.
consumer doesn't pay the entire load for the entire world. The medical industry
is a real case. I don't even begin to know what the solution is.

But I'm not exactly sure how a windfall profits tax could have done so much
damage: it taxed only excess profits.

Check your info. I think it was the Arabs and their shutting off the oil taps
that created the Houson problem.

If it wasn't, and the oil industry needs to screw the consumer more than it
normally does just to stay in business, then it's really time for tighter
regulation.

Charlie Self

"Patriotism is not short, frenzied outbursts of emotion, but the tranquil and
steady dedication of a lifetime. "
Adlai E. Stevenson

On Fri, 19 Sep 2003 02:21:36 GMT, (Bruce) wrote:

In rec.woodworking
B a r r y B u r k e J r . wrote:

We paid $2.99 a gallon last weekend
for 100LL aviation gas for my buddy's plane, and that has a lot less

Well, to quote a Anthony Hopkins movie line, "Never feel sorry for a man
that owns his own plane."


Did you know that you can buy a decent four seat aircraft for less
than what many soccer moms pay for an SUV? G

That 35-40k plane will hold it's value much better than the SUV, as
it's already had some depreciation, and will probably outlast the SUV
to boot.

Another friend and myself are currently looking in the 45-50k range
for a plane to go halves on.

Barry

In rec.woodworking
B a r r y B u r k e J r . wrote:

Did you know that you can buy a decent four seat aircraft for less
than what many soccer moms pay for an SUV? G

That 35-40k plane will hold it's value much better than the SUV, as
it's already had some depreciation, and will probably outlast the SUV
to boot.

Another friend and myself are currently looking in the 45-50k range
for a plane to go halves on.

Of course an SUV doesn't require expensive annual maintenance by certified
AP mechanics, hanger storage fees etc. Very few "poor" people own planes.
I wouldn't even consider it and my salary has 6 digits in it.