Robert Sturgeon wrote:
On 9 Aug 2006 18:36:24 -0700,
wrote:

pipedope wrote:
Robert Sturgeon wrote:

The same is true of the U.S., where we have more forested
land now than in 1900.
But how does it compare to, say, 1400?
You tell us...

On top of that how much is actual forest and how much is mono culture
tree farm land.

michael
You have a problem with trees being replanted for future cuts?

If he gets to define the terms any way he likes, he can
prove anything -- anything at all.

Forests are forests, regardless of whether they are tree
farms or "virgin" forests.

--
Robert Sturgeon
Summum ius summa inuria.
http://www.vistech.net/users/rsturge/

Looks like the pot calling the kettle black.

Start with how bad I am for simply asking a question by implying that I
am defining terms to fit my argument and the you make a strange
definition to support your own argument.

There are major differences between virgin forests and tree farms. Not
even all virgin forests are the same.

There is lots of good science on the subject, far more than will fit
into net news sound bites.

Upscale wrote:

"R. Lander" wrote in message
lost to population growth in most places. They plant tree farms at
higher density and try to call it "more acreage."

And also, what kind of acreage is it? Old growth trees of hundreds of years
ago, certainly don't measure up to what is grown today. Same acreage maybe,
but certainly not same quality, durability or foliage.

Very true. Here's one of many maps showing the general plight of old
growth:

http://mvh.sr.unh.edu/mvhinvestigati...th_forests.htm

Many on the Right don't believe Man can impact nature unless it was
decreed in the Bible. They will always claim that down means up when a
resource is discussed; or price matters more than physical abundance.
They'll spotlight some guy planting a dozen trees in his backyard,
while a nearby subdivision flattens the last wild oaks in the county.
Of course, a few oaks will be left standing so they can give it a trite
name.

R. Lander

Okay, so I'm late and catching up, but Gunner wrote
on Tue, 08 Aug 2006 16:01:41 GMT in misc.survivalism :

Primitive to an extreme, but possible, even practical with off-the-shelf
materials.

And Homeland Security doesn't offer to hire us why?

Because those folks have others far far nastier than us.


Compressed air/black powder chain cannons on timers would be hard to
spot and deadly effective against substations, as would carbon fibre.
Carbon fibre dispensers btw..were used against Iraqi substations to good
effect.

Gunner, get the Hell _outta_ my head!

You have an evil, devious mind. I like that characteristic in a man --
or woman for that matter.

Shrug..its a knack.

Larry Bond has an interesting novel "Enemy Within". All about how an
increase in "domestic" terrorism turns out to be part of the cover for an
Iranian invasion of Saudi Arabia. The other part was the Iranian military
taking out "all" of the of the terrorists bases in Iran.

As Judy Tend would say "It could happen."

tschus
pyotr

--
pyotr filipivich
Typos, Grammos and da kind are the result of ragin hormones
Fortesque Consulting: Teaching Pigs to Sing since 1968.

Private wrote:

Self sufficiency is an attitude and a lifestyle which cannot be
explained to
people who do not share similar feelings.

I have to smile when I see somebody, not necessarily "Private" above,
spouting off about being self sufficient while living on land as has
happened with this thread.

Really want to see if you can be self sufficient?

Become a cruising sailor, actually a single handed cruising sailor.

Get a decent sail boat, say about a 30 ft sloop, depart from somewhere
here along the left coast and set sail for say, someplace like Fiji or
even Australia.

You'll be by yourself, out of sight of land, for 30+ days, if you are
lucky.

If not lucky, add another 10-20 days sailing time.

No 911, no cell phone, no hardware stores, no towing service.

There are no gas stations at sea.

Good thing, you won't need one anyway.

There will probably be some rather nasty weather along the way.

Weather forecasts beyond 48 hours start to get iffy.

15 minute cat naps are the best you will get while underway.

If you are not careful, you can hallucinate.

It is what that is between your ears that will bring you safely to the
next port.


Lew

pipedope wrote:
Robert Sturgeon wrote:
On 9 Aug 2006 18:36:24 -0700,
wrote:

pipedope wrote:
Robert Sturgeon wrote:

The same is true of the U.S., where we have more forested
land now than in 1900.
But how does it compare to, say, 1400?
You tell us...

On top of that how much is actual forest and how much is mono culture
tree farm land.

michael
You have a problem with trees being replanted for future cuts?

If he gets to define the terms any way he likes, he can
prove anything -- anything at all.

Forests are forests, regardless of whether they are tree
farms or "virgin" forests.

--
Robert Sturgeon
Summum ius summa inuria.
http://www.vistech.net/users/rsturge/

Looks like the pot calling the kettle black.

You know and I know that pots can't talk.

Start with how bad I am for simply asking a question by implying that I
am defining terms to fit my argument and the you make a strange
definition to support your own argument.

There are major differences between virgin forests and tree farms. Not
even all virgin forests are the same.

Indeed. Pots and kettles talking to each other...

There is lots of good science on the subject, far more than will fit
into net news sound bites.

So cutting trees is bad, and cutting trees expressly grown to be cut is
bad, too.

It's always that way with the libs. I saw a lib movie where they sat
around a stump and wailed and cried...

I think a lot of people today have too much money at their disposal.
Before you jump on that statement, remember necessity is the mother of
invention. If the pipes leaked and you couldn't afford a plumber,you
would probably find a way to repair the leak.
However some fools would rather drown.....

Gary

On 5 Aug 2006 07:27:58 -0700, "Too_Many_Tools"
wrote:

It has always concerned me when the young amoung us are not taugh basic
skills such as how to change a tire, how to use a saw, how to...well
you get the idea...there are basic skills that one needs to deal with
the world we live in. Well this article shows what that lack of
training, due to whatever reason, means as they get older.

When I drive through a neighborhood, it is a rare garage that has
anything like a workshop within it anymore....a reflection of the lack
of interest or knowledge of the homeowner to work with their hands?

Do your children, grandchildren, nieces and nephews, the generation who
is succeeding us, have the basic skills that are needed in the world
today?

TMT


Repair jobs challenge young homeowners By MARTHA IRVINE, AP National
Writer
Thu Aug 3

The staff at his neighborhood hardware store can spot John Carter from
a distance.

He's the slightly befuddled guy who often comes in declaring, "I have
no idea what I'm doing. Can you at least get me through tonight?"

The 26-year-old Chicagoan, who's been slowly rehabbing the condo he
bought last year, is part of a generation of young homeowners who admit
they often have no clue how to handle home projects.

For them, shop class was optional. It also was more common for their
parents to hire contractors, leaving fewer opportunities for them to
learn basic repair skills.

With low interest rates allowing more young adults to buy property in
recent years, many inexperienced homeowners are desperate for advice
when the furnace goes out, the roof leaks or when a home project that
seemed like a no-brainer goes terribly wrong.

"They know they've got to buy real estate; they know it's a good
investment. But that doesn't help you when you swing a hammer and hit a
pipe in the wall," says Lou Manfredini, a Chicago hardware store owner
who gives do-it-yourself advice on local radio and nationally online
and on TV. "Unfortunately, homes don't come with an instruction
manual."

Contractors say it's not unusual for them to get frantic calls from
young do-it-yourselfers who get in over their heads.

Sometimes, the mistakes are silly.

Michel Hanet, who owns a door replacement business called IDRC in
Scottsdale, Ariz., has arrived at homes to find doors hung upside down.
He's also discovered more than one sliding pocket door that won't open
because someone nailed a picture on the wall and into the door.

"The younger generation are more likely the ones that are getting into
trouble," Hanet says. "The baby boomers have the money to do it, so
they just call and say 'I don't like my doors; just come and replace
them.'"

Kirsten Pellicer, the 30-year-old vice president of Ace hardware stores
in Longmont and Boulder, Colo., sees many young customers looking to
tackle projects on their own, often to save money.

"We rarely get requests for 'Do you know a good handyman?' from the
younger set," she says.

For Carter, the young Chicagoan, it's all about being brave enough to
try - and sometimes fail.

With the help of a buddy who has rehabbing experience, he's put in
hardwood floors, knocked out a wall and completely remodeled his condo
kitchen.

In the process, he's also managed to nearly flood the kitchen after
forgetting to completely seal off a refrigerator water line; had a
sliding closet door he was installing shatter a light bulb over his
head and crash on top of him; and been fined by his condo association
for a couple of other mishaps.

"The one thing about home remodeling is that it is intimidating. But in
the end, you find it's definitely worthwhile," says Carter, whose day
job is at a large accounting firm where he secures computerized
financial data. "You just have to accept that you're going to screw
up."

Dave Payne, a 26-year-old condo owner in suburban Atlanta, knows what
he means.

Payne made the mistake of trying to spackle over wallpaper in his condo
bathroom, leaving uneven chunks where the wallpaper pulled away from
the wall.

"There were just times when I wanted to pull my hair out and hire
someone when I looked at my ruined walls," he says.

But after hours of "spackling, sanding, spackling again, sanding again,
then priming," he's hoping no one will notice.

Increasingly, hardware professionals and others are addressing the need
for know-how.

Some community colleges and stores such as Lowe's and Home Depot offer
classes in projects from changing a faucet to tiling and putting in a
dimmer switch.

"It gives them some exposure, so if they want to do it on their own,
they have a starting point," says Peter Marx, a remodeling contractor
who teaches home repair at North Seattle Community College.

Others find help online, including at the Ace site, where Manfredini
- the Chicago hardware store owner - answers questions.

Home-centered television networks, including HGTV, are also in vogue.
HGTV executives say shows such as "Design on a Dime" and "What's Your
Sign? Design" - a show that builds on the unlikely combination of
astrology and home decorating - have helped boost its recent ratings
among young adults.

While 27-year-old Amy Choate occasionally goes online or watches TV
shows to get home-improvement ideas, more often she uses a resource
closer to home: her mom.

Among other things, mom showed her how to fix wall cracks in her
Chicago condo.

But Choate has no intention of tackling an upcoming kitchen rehab.
She'll leave that to a professional.

"I'd probably do it wrong," she says, "and end up paying twice as
much."

___

On the Net:

Answers (at) Ace: http://www.acehardware.com

Home Depot clinics: http://www.homedepotclinics.com/

Lowe's clinics:
http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?actio...SchedProcessor

On Fri, 11 Aug 2006 02:05:48 GMT, Gary Tomada
wrote:

I think a lot of people today have too much money at their disposal.
Before you jump on that statement, remember necessity is the mother of
invention. If the pipes leaked and you couldn't afford a plumber,you
would probably find a way to repair the leak.

BTDT, used the T-shirt to stuff the holes shut. Have been blessed to not
have had to do that for a while. When people to reach the point you
describe, the most resourceful figure out how to adapt and fix things.

However some fools would rather drown.....

Gary

.... and then have their survivors wail about how the government was so
uncaring to let them drown.

[Just a little gasoline for the fire ;-) ]



On 5 Aug 2006 07:27:58 -0700, "Too_Many_Tools"
wrote:

It has always concerned me when the young amoung us are not taugh basic
skills such as how to change a tire, how to use a saw, how to...well
you get the idea...there are basic skills that one needs to deal with
the world we live in. Well this article shows what that lack of
training, due to whatever reason, means as they get older.

When I drive through a neighborhood, it is a rare garage that has
anything like a workshop within it anymore....a reflection of the lack
of interest or knowledge of the homeowner to work with their hands?

Do your children, grandchildren, nieces and nephews, the generation who
is succeeding us, have the basic skills that are needed in the world
today?

TMT


Repair jobs challenge young homeowners By MARTHA IRVINE, AP National
Writer
Thu Aug 3

The staff at his neighborhood hardware store can spot John Carter from
a distance.

He's the slightly befuddled guy who often comes in declaring, "I have
no idea what I'm doing. Can you at least get me through tonight?"

The 26-year-old Chicagoan, who's been slowly rehabbing the condo he
bought last year, is part of a generation of young homeowners who admit
they often have no clue how to handle home projects.

For them, shop class was optional. It also was more common for their
parents to hire contractors, leaving fewer opportunities for them to
learn basic repair skills.

With low interest rates allowing more young adults to buy property in
recent years, many inexperienced homeowners are desperate for advice
when the furnace goes out, the roof leaks or when a home project that
seemed like a no-brainer goes terribly wrong.

"They know they've got to buy real estate; they know it's a good
investment. But that doesn't help you when you swing a hammer and hit a
pipe in the wall," says Lou Manfredini, a Chicago hardware store owner
who gives do-it-yourself advice on local radio and nationally online
and on TV. "Unfortunately, homes don't come with an instruction
manual."

Contractors say it's not unusual for them to get frantic calls from
young do-it-yourselfers who get in over their heads.

Sometimes, the mistakes are silly.

Michel Hanet, who owns a door replacement business called IDRC in
Scottsdale, Ariz., has arrived at homes to find doors hung upside down.
He's also discovered more than one sliding pocket door that won't open
because someone nailed a picture on the wall and into the door.

"The younger generation are more likely the ones that are getting into
trouble," Hanet says. "The baby boomers have the money to do it, so
they just call and say 'I don't like my doors; just come and replace
them.'"

Kirsten Pellicer, the 30-year-old vice president of Ace hardware stores
in Longmont and Boulder, Colo., sees many young customers looking to
tackle projects on their own, often to save money.

"We rarely get requests for 'Do you know a good handyman?' from the
younger set," she says.

For Carter, the young Chicagoan, it's all about being brave enough to
try - and sometimes fail.

With the help of a buddy who has rehabbing experience, he's put in
hardwood floors, knocked out a wall and completely remodeled his condo
kitchen.

In the process, he's also managed to nearly flood the kitchen after
forgetting to completely seal off a refrigerator water line; had a
sliding closet door he was installing shatter a light bulb over his
head and crash on top of him; and been fined by his condo association
for a couple of other mishaps.

"The one thing about home remodeling is that it is intimidating. But in
the end, you find it's definitely worthwhile," says Carter, whose day
job is at a large accounting firm where he secures computerized
financial data. "You just have to accept that you're going to screw
up."

Dave Payne, a 26-year-old condo owner in suburban Atlanta, knows what
he means.

Payne made the mistake of trying to spackle over wallpaper in his condo
bathroom, leaving uneven chunks where the wallpaper pulled away from
the wall.

"There were just times when I wanted to pull my hair out and hire
someone when I looked at my ruined walls," he says.

But after hours of "spackling, sanding, spackling again, sanding again,
then priming," he's hoping no one will notice.

Increasingly, hardware professionals and others are addressing the need
for know-how.

Some community colleges and stores such as Lowe's and Home Depot offer
classes in projects from changing a faucet to tiling and putting in a
dimmer switch.

"It gives them some exposure, so if they want to do it on their own,
they have a starting point," says Peter Marx, a remodeling contractor
who teaches home repair at North Seattle Community College.

Others find help online, including at the Ace site, where Manfredini
- the Chicago hardware store owner - answers questions.

Home-centered television networks, including HGTV, are also in vogue.
HGTV executives say shows such as "Design on a Dime" and "What's Your
Sign? Design" - a show that builds on the unlikely combination of
astrology and home decorating - have helped boost its recent ratings
among young adults.

While 27-year-old Amy Choate occasionally goes online or watches TV
shows to get home-improvement ideas, more often she uses a resource
closer to home: her mom.

Among other things, mom showed her how to fix wall cracks in her
Chicago condo.

But Choate has no intention of tackling an upcoming kitchen rehab.
She'll leave that to a professional.

"I'd probably do it wrong," she says, "and end up paying twice as
much."

___

On the Net:

Answers (at) Ace: http://www.acehardware.com

Home Depot clinics: http://www.homedepotclinics.com/

Lowe's clinics:
http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?actio...SchedProcessor


+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+

If you're gonna be dumb, you better be tough

+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+

I think a lot of people today have too much money at their disposal.
Before you jump on that statement, remember necessity is the mother of
invention. If the pipes leaked and you couldn't afford a plumber,you
would probably find a way to repair the leak.


A friend of mine had a drippy bathroom sink. It had been driving her nuts
for months. I suggested that she put a washrag under the drip; then you
won't hear the drip anymore. It worked and she was happy. I replaced the
washer for her a few days later. You'd think she would have tried the
washrag under the drip trick already. Women. Beautiful, sexy creatures,
but most are clueless when it comes to things mechanical. I personally
know 4 or 5 women who've burned up engines by not changing the oil, adding
the oil, or even checking their oil. As long as the car starts, they're
happy and drive it until it stops starting. Of course, some men are like
this too, and they're even more pathetic! My brother's former brother-in-
law (late 20's) burned up the engine in a 1 year old Honda Civic by not
caring about the oil. His father, even more stupid than he was, went out
and bought the dude a brand new Acura Integra! More money thna brains.

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wrote:

So cutting trees is bad, and cutting trees expressly grown to be cut is
bad, too.

I never said anything like that at all.
I am pointing out that when comparing things it is important to define
the terms and understand the time frame of the comparison.

There is such a thing as sustainable forestry and logging but in the USA
today it is really only being done by owners of small woodlots.

The reason clear cutting is popular is that it is cheap and can be done
with much less skilled labor. Selectively harvesting only the mature
trees and removing them with minimal damage to the rest of the forest
requires more labor and people with more education and experience.
Yes, that also would mean that I would pay more for my lumber but I
already pay top dollar for quality lumber so it really wouldn't change
things for me so much.

On Thu, 10 Aug 2006 20:23:59 -0800, pipedope
wrote:

wrote:

So cutting trees is bad, and cutting trees expressly grown to be cut is
bad, too.

I never said anything like that at all.
I am pointing out that when comparing things it is important to define
the terms and understand the time frame of the comparison.

There is such a thing as sustainable forestry and logging but in the USA
today it is really only being done by owners of small woodlots.

weyerhaeuser is a small woodlot?

The reason clear cutting is popular is that it is cheap and can be done
with much less skilled labor. Selectively harvesting only the mature
trees and removing them with minimal damage to the rest of the forest
requires more labor and people with more education and experience.
Yes, that also would mean that I would pay more for my lumber but I
already pay top dollar for quality lumber so it really wouldn't change
things for me so much.

http://www.weyerhaeuser.com/ourbusin...estry/intheus/




"If I'm going to reach out to the the Democrats then I need a third
hand.There's no way I'm letting go of my wallet or my gun while they're
around."

"Democrat. In the dictionary it's right after demobilize and right
before demode` (out of fashion).
-Buddy Jordan 2001

"Lew Hodgett" wrote in message
nk.net...
Private wrote:

Self sufficiency is an attitude and a lifestyle which cannot be
explained to
people who do not share similar feelings.

I have to smile when I see somebody, not necessarily "Private" above,
spouting off about being self sufficient while living on land as has
happened with this thread.

Really want to see if you can be self sufficient?

Become a cruising sailor, actually a single handed cruising sailor.

Get a decent sail boat, say about a 30 ft sloop, depart from somewhere
here along the left coast and set sail for say, someplace like Fiji or
even Australia.

You'll be by yourself, out of sight of land, for 30+ days, if you are
lucky.

If not lucky, add another 10-20 days sailing time.

No 911, no cell phone, no hardware stores, no towing service.

There are no gas stations at sea.

Good thing, you won't need one anyway.

There will probably be some rather nasty weather along the way.

Weather forecasts beyond 48 hours start to get iffy.

15 minute cat naps are the best you will get while underway.

If you are not careful, you can hallucinate.

It is what that is between your ears that will bring you safely to the
next port.


Lew

Similarly, a large part of pilot training is communicating the concept of
PIC (pilot in command) which basically means that the pilot is responsible
for everything and no matter what goes wrong:
A - the pilot gets blamed.
B - the pilot dies.

Similar attitude and resourcefulness is required in most mountaineering and
wilderness activity.

IMHO self sufficiency does not require the exclusion of external resources
but rather is a mastery of the technology that we choose to utilize and a
desire to 'do for ourselves' when possible and practical. The practical
part is a judgment call we must each make for ourselves. Many do not
understand the urge of some to steer their own boat when it is so much
easier (and usually cheaper) to just buy a ticket on a ship. Some of us
feel that the journey is at least as important as the destination.

I suspect that Lew and I share much agreement.

"grappletech" wrote in message

this too, and they're even more pathetic! My brother's former brother-in-
law (late 20's) burned up the engine in a 1 year old Honda Civic by not
caring about the oil. His father, even more stupid than he was, went out
and bought the dude a brand new Acura Integra! More money thna brains.

Results of f(*&king with mother nature's survival of the fittest ... the
stupid beget stupid and pretty soon that's all you got. Just look around you
on the freeway.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 8/10/06

Okay, so I'm late and catching up, but Gunner
wrote on Thu, 10 Aug 2006 04:44:20 GMT in misc.survivalism :
On Tue, 08 Aug 2006 20:56:53 +0100, Steve Taylor
wrote:

Jeff McCann wrote:

It really is hard to say, but I do know quite alot from direct personal
observation about how people react when their lives are totally disrupted,
homes and jobs completely gone, communities devastated, loved ones missing,
hurt or killed, little or no news from outside, etc. I'm willing to rely
more than you appear to be on the basic resiliency of the American character
in the face of adversity, as well as in the basic robustness of our social,
economic and political systems.

That's true for any people, look at the way we (I'm English) reacted to
Germany's bombings of London and other major cities, or how we reacted
when the IRA destroyed the centre of my city (Manchester), or when our
home grown Islamists butchered people in the subways of London.

Everyone adapts, and very quickly.

Steve


For those who are history challenged...go too Google, images..then
type in London Blitz

Take a good look at the photos.

One should note..British Civilizaton (such as it is G) didnt
collapse despite even that.

That collapse occurred later, when the Brits successively leveled great
parts of Urban Britain. At least the luftwaffe had just demolished the
buildings, not replaced them with ugly edifices as monuments to the bottom
line.

tschus
pyotr
--
pyotr filipivich
Typos, Grammos and da kind are the result of ragin hormones
Fortesque Consulting: Teaching Pigs to Sing since 1968.

pipedope wrote:
wrote:

So cutting trees is bad, and cutting trees expressly grown to be cut is
bad, too.

I never said anything like that at all.

Then it's a good that we're talking this through. You sure left me
with that impression.

I am pointing out that when comparing things it is important to define
the terms and understand the time frame of the comparison.

And we will find that most things aren't comparable.

There is such a thing as sustainable forestry and logging but in the USA
today it is really only being done by owners of small woodlots.

Hmmmm? Mead/Westvaco and Weyerhauser would wince at your suggestion.

The reason clear cutting is popular is that it is cheap and can be done
with much less skilled labor.

It is popular because the large timber companies wish to replant a
single desireable species that can be harvested again in a shorter
period of time.

Selectively harvesting only the mature
trees and removing them with minimal damage to the rest of the forest

"The rest of the forest" may not contain desireable trees.

requires more labor and people with more education and experience.

You are only considering ONE aspect of the situation and then put a
negative spin on it, such as the timber work force being comprised of
stupid people.

Yes, that also would mean that I would pay more for my lumber but I
already pay top dollar for quality lumber so it really wouldn't change
things for me so much.

Don't be so sure.

SNIP
In the 9th week, success! Power is restored.

Oh, happy day.

"Oh, look Mommy, the sky is grey, and its so cold. Can I have a leg
this time?"


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Man, this is a good story. Will there be a movie soon?

Pete

wrote:

Oh, happy day.


Oh, and the cell phone batteries die.

I suspect that anyone with an ounce of reasoning power can complete
this sentence:

"If technology is necessary to support the population at it's current
number, and that technology fails, then ..."

Tom Veatch (in ) said:

| I suspect that anyone with an ounce of reasoning power can complete
| this sentence:
|
| "If technology is necessary to support the population at it's
| current number, and that technology fails, then ..."

....at that point it becomes imperative to shift to alternative
technology (or technologies) as rapidly as possible to minimize the
damage.

(It doesn't even take /half/ an ounce.)

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto

Morris Dovey (in ) said:

| Tom Veatch (in ) said:
|
|| I suspect that anyone with an ounce of reasoning power can complete
|| this sentence:
||
|| "If technology is necessary to support the population at it's
|| current number, and that technology fails, then ..."
|
| ...at that point it becomes imperative to shift to alternative
| technology (or technologies) as rapidly as possible to minimize the
| damage.

I'd like to expand on my response. About two years ago, I went through
a contingency planning exercise for my business (manufacturing passive
solar heating panels) and detailed the steps that'd need to be taken
to provide enough panels to solar heat every dwelling in the state of
Iowa. I used the assumption that raw materials would be available and
that the time to procure materials would not be degraded by more than
25%. I also made the assumption that there would be sufficient power
available to run shop machinery (either from the grid, local
generators, or alternative sources). I did /not/ assume that I would
be able to procure additional CNC machines.

I was a bit surprised to discover that it would be possible, with
those assumptions, to meet that objective within seven months. It'd
mean long hours of exhausting work; but it could be done, if needed.

I'm not sure how "real world" that is; and I'm very aware that Iowa
has a small population (around 3 million) - but I have a high degree
of confidence in our ability to weather even major disasters provided
that we don't sit on our hands and wait for the government to solve
our problems.

I'm rather hoping that other businesses have put together their own
contingency plans...

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto