I am looking at a contractor saw and focusing on the following two models
and was hoping to get some insight


Delta x5 Contractor saw with 1 cast iron extension 30 inch Unifence - $749

Delta 36-981 contractor saw (new model 4/2006)-left tilt with 2 cast iron
extension wings and 30 inch Commercial Biesemeyer fence -$789


My question-

which is better- the x5 saw which I assume is mostly the same saw as the
regular contractor saw with some parts made in the US and only 1 cast iron
extension wing or the newer 36-981 (not x5 brand) but
with the left tilt and 2 cast iron wings but made overseas?

Thanks

KC

If you check with stocking distributors you may be able to locate a right
tilt saw MADE IN AMERICA. . . I got one about 6 months ago . . .

A lot of the larger distributor like Circle Saw stocked up on them . . .
Also th X5 has a five year warranty . . .

Steve


"Kevin Coleman" wrote in message
...
I am looking at a contractor saw and focusing on the following two models
and was hoping to get some insight


Delta x5 Contractor saw with 1 cast iron extension 30 inch Unifence - $749

Delta 36-981 contractor saw (new model 4/2006)-left tilt with 2 cast iron
extension wings and 30 inch Commercial Biesemeyer fence -$789


My question-

which is better- the x5 saw which I assume is mostly the same saw as the
regular contractor saw with some parts made in the US and only 1 cast iron
extension wing or the newer 36-981 (not x5 brand) but
with the left tilt and 2 cast iron wings but made overseas?

Thanks

KC

X5 consists of extended warranty and some BS gift deals.

If you like the non-X5 saw, get that one, and no, there
is no difference except for configuration.

The 50" fence is a much better deal if you gave the room.



Kevin Coleman wrote:

I am looking at a contractor saw and focusing on the following two models
and was hoping to get some insight


Delta x5 Contractor saw with 1 cast iron extension 30 inch Unifence - $749

Delta 36-981 contractor saw (new model 4/2006)-left tilt with 2 cast iron
extension wings and 30 inch Commercial Biesemeyer fence -$789


My question-

which is better- the x5 saw which I assume is mostly the same saw as the
regular contractor saw with some parts made in the US and only 1 cast iron
extension wing or the newer 36-981 (not x5 brand) but
with the left tilt and 2 cast iron wings but made overseas?

Thanks

KC

"Kevin Coleman" wrote in message
...
I am looking at a contractor saw and focusing on the following two models
and was hoping to get some insight


Delta x5 Contractor saw with 1 cast iron extension 30 inch Unifence - $749

Delta 36-981 contractor saw (new model 4/2006)-left tilt with 2 cast iron
extension wings and 30 inch Commercial Biesemeyer fence -$789


My question-

which is better- the x5 saw which I assume is mostly the same saw as the
regular contractor saw with some parts made in the US and only 1 cast iron
extension wing or the newer 36-981 (not x5 brand) but
with the left tilt and 2 cast iron wings but made overseas?

Thanks

KC


The x5 is really a dressed up version of the 36-444. This saw has been
around for quite some time now. In fact, if you look at the parts list, the
only real differences are the fence and the handles.
The whole thing is made in the USA (one of the last such to be sure).

The new 36-981 series seem to be Chinese or Taiwanese.
Jim

Per Delta & Circle saw . . . not all X5's are American made . . . Only those
made before a certain date . . this is why I would check with some large
local distributors . . . . ie . . . Circle Saw in Houston, TX . . .




"Jim" wrote in message
et...

"Kevin Coleman" wrote in message
...
I am looking at a contractor saw and focusing on the following two models
and was hoping to get some insight


Delta x5 Contractor saw with 1 cast iron extension 30 inch Unifence -
$749

Delta 36-981 contractor saw (new model 4/2006)-left tilt with 2 cast
iron
extension wings and 30 inch Commercial Biesemeyer fence -$789


My question-

which is better- the x5 saw which I assume is mostly the same saw as the
regular contractor saw with some parts made in the US and only 1 cast
iron
extension wing or the newer 36-981 (not x5 brand) but
with the left tilt and 2 cast iron wings but made overseas?

Thanks

KC


The x5 is really a dressed up version of the 36-444. This saw has been
around for quite some time now. In fact, if you look at the parts list,
the
only real differences are the fence and the handles.
The whole thing is made in the USA (one of the last such to be sure).

The new 36-981 series seem to be Chinese or Taiwanese.
Jim

On Sun, 9 Apr 2006 17:25:00 -0700, "Kevin Coleman"
wrote:

I am looking at a contractor saw and focusing on the following two models
and was hoping to get some insight


Delta x5 Contractor saw with 1 cast iron extension 30 inch Unifence - $749

Delta 36-981 contractor saw (new model 4/2006)-left tilt with 2 cast iron
extension wings and 30 inch Commercial Biesemeyer fence -$789


My question-

which is better- the x5 saw which I assume is mostly the same saw as the
regular contractor saw with some parts made in the US and only 1 cast iron
extension wing

If you are talking about the 36-505X The US content is in the high
ninties (percent) and includes the motor. And once they are gone,
they are gone. No more are being made. That would be my choice.



or the newer 36-981 (not x5 brand) but
with the left tilt and 2 cast iron wings but made overseas?

In China.

Frank

Thanks

KC

Correct . . . they will be no more . . .



"Frank Boettcher" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 9 Apr 2006 17:25:00 -0700, "Kevin Coleman"
wrote:

I am looking at a contractor saw and focusing on the following two models
and was hoping to get some insight


Delta x5 Contractor saw with 1 cast iron extension 30 inch Unifence -
$749

Delta 36-981 contractor saw (new model 4/2006)-left tilt with 2 cast iron
extension wings and 30 inch Commercial Biesemeyer fence -$789


My question-

which is better- the x5 saw which I assume is mostly the same saw as the
regular contractor saw with some parts made in the US and only 1 cast
iron
extension wing

If you are talking about the 36-505X The US content is in the high
ninties (percent) and includes the motor. And once they are gone,
they are gone. No more are being made. That would be my choice.



or the newer 36-981 (not x5 brand) but
with the left tilt and 2 cast iron wings but made overseas?

In China.

Frank

Thanks

KC

On Mon, 10 Apr 2006 14:47:29 -0500, Frank Boettcher
wrote:

If you are talking about the 36-505X The US content is in the high
ninties (percent) and includes the motor. And once they are gone,
they are gone. No more are being made. That would be my choice.

Frank, does that mean all of the Contractor's saws will be imports?
Also is the right tilt Contractor's saw a thing of the past?

Mike O.

On Mon, 10 Apr 2006 22:58:27 -0500, Mike O. wrote:

On Mon, 10 Apr 2006 14:47:29 -0500, Frank Boettcher
wrote:

If you are talking about the 36-505X The US content is in the high
ninties (percent) and includes the motor. And once they are gone,
they are gone. No more are being made. That would be my choice.

Frank, does that mean all of the Contractor's saws will be imports?
Also is the right tilt Contractor's saw a thing of the past?

Mike O.


The last American made contractor saw was was completed mid year 2004.
You might notice that Delta does not have that unit listed on their X5
page on the web site anymore, however, I'm sure that there are still
some units in dealer stock.

On the issue of right tilt unit availability, I'm not sure, but if so
it will be an import.

I think the market will dictate. If there is significant demand for
left tilt contractors saws and very low demand for right tilt, I think
the market in general (all brands) will let the right tilt die.

Frank

On Tue, 11 Apr 2006 08:10:38 -0500, Frank Boettcher
wrote:

The last American made contractor saw was was completed mid year 2004.
You might notice that Delta does not have that unit listed on their X5
page on the web site anymore, however, I'm sure that there are still
some units in dealer stock.

Have you compared the newer Delta imports to the older US made models?
Any opinions?

I've looked at imports (contractor models) from other makers but
always went back to the reliable old Delta.

I think the market will dictate. If there is significant demand for
left tilt contractors saws and very low demand for right tilt, I think
the market in general (all brands) will let the right tilt die.

I may have to replace the current job saw someday (hopefully not too
soon) and have always used a right tilt. I guess if I want to stay
with what I'm used to, I may have to put one in storage.


Mike O.

On Tue, 11 Apr 2006 20:54:46 -0500, Mike O. wrote:

On Tue, 11 Apr 2006 08:10:38 -0500, Frank Boettcher
wrote:

The last American made contractor saw was was completed mid year 2004.
You might notice that Delta does not have that unit listed on their X5
page on the web site anymore, however, I'm sure that there are still
some units in dealer stock.

Have you compared the newer Delta imports to the older US made models?
Any opinions?

Any comparisons I did would be several years old. The older Delta US
made models were very consistent from the mid eighty's on with very
good quality on all the contractor models. But as mentioned the last
unit came off the assembly line mid '04.

It is my opinion that the Chinese made units (anyone's) do not compare
however I've not compared the Delta import units to any other brand of
Chinese import contractor model. Delta's future really depends on
their ability to put out a comparably favorable product and to
maintain the customer service and longevity of service parts which are
several factors that set them apart in the first place. From comments
I've heard on this forum (certainly not a statistically relevant
sample, but important) they have hit a bump or two. Time will tell.

I've also gone through a five year initiative sourcing cast and
machined grey iron components in China. Those that believe that there
is not a statistically relevant difference in the machining
tolerances, the hardness ranges and the overall quality between the
domestic castings and Chinese foundries are kidding themselves.
However, it is my opinion that there will soon be no choice in the
matter.

I've looked at imports (contractor models) from other makers but
always went back to the reliable old Delta.

And you may find a used market for 34-444s and 36-441s and their
various dreriviatives for a long time to come as people upgrade to
cabinet models.

I think the market will dictate. If there is significant demand for
left tilt contractors saws and very low demand for right tilt, I think
the market in general (all brands) will let the right tilt die.

I may have to replace the current job saw someday (hopefully not too
soon) and have always used a right tilt. I guess if I want to stay
with what I'm used to, I may have to put one in storage.

Left tilts are currently favored. You may not notice any difference
unless you make a lot of bevel cuts in which case the left tilt will
be a little more convenient to use safely for that purpose ( my only
shop injury came from a kickback when late at night I made that last
cut and didn't change the fence over on a right tilt). I've used both
and in my mind they are interchangeable.

Frank


Mike O.

If you are talking about the 36-505X The US content is in the high
ninties (percent) and includes the motor. And once they are gone,
they are gone. No more are being made. That would be my choice.

I have a pre x5 delta contractor's saw with a big "made in america"
sicker on it. The steel body isn't square, some of the plastic knobs
feel cheesy, and the rail for the unifence had a couple drilled holes
instead of a machined T-slot like the instruction maual showed. It
took me two hours to attach the fence instead of the five minutes it
should have been. It's been an ok saw. And I hate to say it, but if I
were spending that much money again, I would get the grizzly cabinet
saw for about the same price. Comparing my g0490 to a dj-20 is a real
eye-opener.

brian

On 12 Apr 2006 11:50:08 -0700, "brianlanning"
wrote:
snipped a bunch
It
took me two hours to attach the fence instead of the five minutes it
should have been.

You should be working for a dealer! I bet I've installed 2-3 dozen
both the old style and the new style and have never done one in five
minutes. :~)



..







brian

On Wed, 12 Apr 2006 08:08:10 -0500, Frank Boettcher
wrote:


First, thanks for all of the good (but somewhat sad) info Frank!

Any comparisons I did would be several years old. The older Delta US
made models were very consistent from the mid eighty's on with very
good quality on all the contractor models. But as mentioned the last
unit came off the assembly line mid '04.

Were these being manufactured by Delta or contracted out to another
U.S. manufacturer?

It is my opinion that the Chinese made units (anyone's) do not compare
however I've not compared the Delta import units to any other brand of
Chinese import contractor model. Delta's future really depends on
their ability to put out a comparably favorable product and to
maintain the customer service and longevity of service parts which are
several factors that set them apart in the first place. From comments
I've heard on this forum (certainly not a statistically relevant
sample, but important) they have hit a bump or two. Time will tell.

I'm on my third Delta US made contractor's saw since about 1980 and
the guy I work with has been through about that many in the same time.
We wear them out just as much from moving from job to job as from
working wear and tear. I have a restored UniSaw at the house but we
have to be able to break down and move the jobsite saws. That about
eliminates all the cabinet saws so the Contractor's model is about the
best quality saw that we can still manhandle.
Over the years we've seen the subtle changes (some for better) but
basically the saw has been the same. Anyway, as old and crotchety as
we are getting, it's going to be hard to make a change.
BTW, I've always wondered why they didn't come up with a way to keep
the pitch off the gears.:-)

I've also gone through a five year initiative sourcing cast and
machined grey iron components in China. Those that believe that there
is not a statistically relevant difference in the machining
tolerances, the hardness ranges and the overall quality between the
domestic castings and Chinese foundries are kidding themselves.
However, it is my opinion that there will soon be no choice in the
matter.

A sad fact I'd say.

And you may find a used market for 34-444s and 36-441s and their
various dreriviatives for a long time to come as people upgrade to
cabinet models.

I guess we should keep the parts from the two retired saws we still
have. Maybe we can extend the life of the two on the job.

Left tilts are currently favored. You may not notice any difference
unless you make a lot of bevel cuts in which case the left tilt will
be a little more convenient to use safely for that purpose ( my only
shop injury came from a kickback when late at night I made that last
cut and didn't change the fence over on a right tilt). I've used both
and in my mind they are interchangeable.

I most cases I would agree.
I've been cutting trim on these saws for a very long time and always
use the table saw to cut door and window trim. I cut both miters
from the left side of the blade. With the smaller casings I always
tilt the blade almost 1 degree (to the right) to keep things closed on
the face. I guess I can do the same thing from the other side of
the blade but it'll take me another 25 years to get used to it.
A left tilt is going to change my life!:-)

Mike O.

On Wed, 12 Apr 2006 22:17:42 -0500, Mike O. wrote:

On Wed, 12 Apr 2006 08:08:10 -0500, Frank Boettcher
wrote:


First, thanks for all of the good (but somewhat sad) info Frank!

Any comparisons I did would be several years old. The older Delta US
made models were very consistent from the mid eighty's on with very
good quality on all the contractor models. But as mentioned the last
unit came off the assembly line mid '04.

Were these being manufactured by Delta or contracted out to another
U.S. manufacturer?

Always by Delta, Always in the same plant. Delta did not have any
domestic Contract plants except for Lindquist Machine who made (and
still may, I'm not sure) the very high end industrial drill presses.
The RT40 is contracted to Invicta in Brazil who also used to make the
big planers and the DJ 15 and 20.

Frank

Mike O.

You should be working for a dealer! I bet I've installed 2-3 dozen
both the old style and the new style and have never done one in five
minutes. :~)

I mean to attach just the rail to the table. From the manual, you
loosly attach the bolts to the table, then slide the rail on to the
t-track in the rail, then tighen. Great! Instead, I had to use this
stupid cardboard thing and *tape* the nuts to the end of it, then slide
them down the inside of the now-covered t-slot and hold them in place
lined up with the hole they drilled with my first hand, then hold the
rail in position with my two other hands, then attach the bolt with my
fourth hand. They saved a nickel on tool wear and it cost me two hours
of my life. All for more money. Thanks guys. Why am I buying
american again? Better quality? no. Better service? maybe from the
store, but not from delta. Cheaper? definitly not. I might also add
that the old design was completely adjustable. The new design was not
adjustable at all.

brian

On 13 Apr 2006 11:49:20 -0700, "brianlanning"
wrote:

You should be working for a dealer! I bet I've installed 2-3 dozen
both the old style and the new style and have never done one in five
minutes. :~)

I mean to attach just the rail to the table. From the manual, you
loosly attach the bolts to the table, then slide the rail on to the
t-track in the rail, then tighen. Great! Instead, I had to use this
stupid cardboard thing and *tape* the nuts to the end of it, then slide
them down the inside of the now-covered t-slot and hold them in place
lined up with the hole they drilled with my first hand, then hold the
rail in position with my two other hands, then attach the bolt with my
fourth hand. They saved a nickel on tool wear and it cost me two hours
of my life. All for more money. Thanks guys. Why am I buying
american again? Better quality? no. Better service? maybe from the
store, but not from delta. Cheaper? definitly not. I might also add
that the old design was completely adjustable. The new design was not
adjustable at all.

brian


Brian,

You got the old design my friend. That design hasn't been produced in
maybe six or seven years. If your package model number calls for the
new design rail then someone made a mistake (dealer or Delta) and gave
you the wrong component. Or maybe the dealer sold you an old unifence
with a newer model saw. If you think that is the case, you should
take issue if you are not satisfied with it.

And for your info, the old design guide rail actually cost more to
make, (has to do with the fact that it was a porthole extrusion die)
but Delta added the flip stops to the new design as a new feature so
no more money was made on the package.

Frank

That design hasn't been produced in
maybe six or seven years.

I got it maybe five years ago from berland's house of tools. I guess
I was comparing the old design to an older design. Or maybe the manual
was newer than my rail?

Anyway, it sounds like you thought I just bought the saw. Sorry for
the confusion.

brian

On 13 Apr 2006 13:43:15 -0700, "brianlanning"
wrote:

That design hasn't been produced in
maybe six or seven years.

Or maybe the manual
was newer than my rail?

That is the case. What you describe in the manual is for the current
version. How you describe you attached it is for the old version.
The newer version is easier to install which was one of the goals when
making the change.

Just for your future use or files, you should call customer service
and have them send you the right manual and parts list. or download
it from the site.

Anyway, it sounds like you thought I just bought the saw. Sorry for
the confusion.

brian

But I have the right manual and the wrong rail, right?

brian

On 14 Apr 2006 11:46:01 -0700, "brianlanning"
wrote:

But I have the right manual and the wrong rail, right?

brian


Not sure. You say you bought it about five years ago. Dealer stock
would still have the old rail and would also have started stocking the
new rail. If you bought a packaged model number it would specify the
correct rail as part of the package. And some packages had all of the
instruction with the saw under that model number and nothing with the
Unifence. Most had nothing with the saw and the manual/instructions
with the fence.

Or it could be a simple mistake where the old rail was supplied by
mistake by either the dealer (did it come packaged separately or in
the fence box?) or by Delta (certainly would be the case if supplied
in one box with the new instructions).

The 52" and the later 50" rails never came to the factory, went
directly to the distribution center. I don't recall if the 30" were
handled that way too. I know that some of them (50") were mislabeled
by the supplier about the time PC took over the Delta distribution
(just one of many problems at that time, in the beginning of 2000).

It's been a long time since you bought it so I'm not sure that there
is anyone (with B & D) who could sort it out after the fact if you
wanted to change rails to the new one in the event it was a mistake.
As mentioned, nothing wrong with the old rail, just didn't have the
flip stop feature and a little harder to assemble.

Frank

The fence was in a separate box.

I guess I don't care at this point. I'm considering replacing the
unifence with wither a larger beis clone or maybe something from incra.
Long term, I plan to get a new table saw anyway so maybe it doesn't
matter.

brian

Kevin Coleman wrote:
I am looking at a contractor saw and focusing on the following two models
and was hoping to get some insight


Delta x5 Contractor saw with 1 cast iron extension 30 inch Unifence - $749

Delta 36-981 contractor saw (new model 4/2006)-left tilt with 2 cast iron
extension wings and 30 inch Commercial Biesemeyer fence -$789


My question-

which is better- the x5 saw which I assume is mostly the same saw as the
regular contractor saw with some parts made in the US and only 1 cast iron
extension wing or the newer 36-981 (not x5 brand) but
with the left tilt and 2 cast iron wings but made overseas?

Thanks

KC

you can get the new model at LOws for about 500.00

Screw Delta !!!! Go $250 more and get the Grizzly 3hp cabinet saw. I
upgraded from a Powermatic 64A contractor saw that I loved and couldn't be
more happy with the Grizzly. That saw is a wrecking machine !!!! For the
money, there is no better tablesaw on the market. It's as good or better
than any comparable saw on the market. If you're going to spend between $500
to $800 on a saw, don't spend you're money twice. Buy the Grizzly the first
time and don't look back. You'll be glad you did.


"anewidomy" wrote in message
ups.com...
Kevin Coleman wrote:
I am looking at a contractor saw and focusing on the following two models
and was hoping to get some insight


Delta x5 Contractor saw with 1 cast iron extension 30 inch Unifence -
$749

Delta 36-981 contractor saw (new model 4/2006)-left tilt with 2 cast iron
extension wings and 30 inch Commercial Biesemeyer fence -$789


My question-

which is better- the x5 saw which I assume is mostly the same saw as the
regular contractor saw with some parts made in the US and only 1 cast
iron
extension wing or the newer 36-981 (not x5 brand) but
with the left tilt and 2 cast iron wings but made overseas?

Thanks

KC