"Brian Henderson" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 28 Feb 2006 23:41:43 -0500, "Lee Gordon"
wrote:

But you have to remember that all the tools on David Marks' show are
his own, personal tools that he's aquired over a lifetime of
woodworking, plus the fact that on his tool show, he pointed out all
the things that he's gotten used, including his
aircraft-carrier-jointer. Norm's tools are all advertiser supplied
and any beginning woodworker isn't going to have access to $10,000
worth of tools.

Exactly


The two shows are really aimed at different audiences
as well.

Dang it Brian... does that mean I am gunna have to stop watching one? LOL

Brian Henderson wrote:

On Wed, 01 Mar 2006 04:55:46 GMT, Reed Snellenberger
wrote:

If you look at the bottom of his "New Yankee Workshop Web Cam" page
(http://www.newyankee.com/yankeecam.php), he has a list of this season's
projects that shows the shooting dates. Apart from the Router Workshop
and a Storage Shed (3 days each), all of the projects were shot in two
days.

The one thing I never understood, especially about his brad-fetish is
that people keep saying he's only got so much time. Um... they can
put it in clamps and turn off the camera, you know. Glue doesn't take
that much time to dry.

Production crew time costs $. Production crew sitting on their thumbs
waiting for glue to dry wastes $.

Pete C.

Tue, Feb 28, 2006, 4:31pm: (Locutus) doth wonder:
I love watching NYWS and TOH, but it seems like any references to him on
here are people making fun of him. Is Norm not as good as we are lead to
believe?

All you have to remember is:
Norm is good. Roy is good. Bob is evil.

Anyway, you've got to admire anyone who can make a piece of
furniture in a half-hour, including commercials.



JOAT
I'd like to give you a going away present.
Just do your part.

"Richard Clements" wrote in message
.. .
Locutus wrote:

I love watching NYWS and TOH, but it seems like any references to him on
here are people making fun of him. Is Norm not as good as we are lead to
believe?
I watch just about every week, and am slowly (56k dialup) downloading some
of his episodes, I don't like the fact that he uses brads all the time,
but
he is on a time crunch, he trends to over complicate things as well.

Where can you download episodes? I've only seen VHS offered?

Download Limewire search for Woodworking and woodworking, two different
searches, and you should get something, searches do take a while, and there
are lots of other wood working stuff as well

John Grossbohlin wrote:


"Richard Clements" wrote in message
.. .
Locutus wrote:

I love watching NYWS and TOH, but it seems like any references to him on
here are people making fun of him. Is Norm not as good as we are lead to
believe?
I watch just about every week, and am slowly (56k dialup) downloading
some of his episodes, I don't like the fact that he uses brads all the
time, but
he is on a time crunch, he trends to over complicate things as well.

Where can you download episodes? I've only seen VHS offered?

--
_________________________
if corn oil comes from corn,
and olive oil comes from olives
where dose baby oil come from?

"Brian Henderson"
and any beginning woodworker isn't going to have access to $10,000
worth of tools. The two shows are really aimed at different audiences
as well.

Ha! $10,000 wouldn't buy a quarter of Norm's tools.

My problem with Norm's show is watching him push piece after piece through
his machines. How about cutting those parts of the show and a little more
on setup etc.
I have been watching and respecting Norm long before he built the medicine
cabinet. I think the fit and finish of his joints is superb.
I don't use brads to hold it while the glue dries and my favorite wood is
cherry and my favorite finish is Danish oil, sometimes with a coat or two of
poly.
If I could afford the tools he has I would have them also.
I still watch his show and the reruns faithfully, although I do tend to doze
off now and again watching him push wood through tue table sawrer or routah.

"Locutus" wrote in message
...
I love watching NYWS and TOH, but it seems like any references to him on
here are people making fun of him. Is Norm not as good as we are lead to
believe?

My problem with Norm's show is watching him push piece after piece through
his machines. How about cutting those parts of the show and a little more
on setup etc.

I agree that I'd like to see Norm do some of the setups but he has to make a
few cuts on TV. Otherwise it would look like the pieces just appeared by
magic. At least Norm generally makes only one demonstation cut per
component. His way is a lot better than the Router Guys who cut every dado,
every rabbet, every tongue and every groove on every piece of every project.
That wouldn't be so bad if you could smell the sawdust.

Lee


--
To e-mail, replace "bucketofspam" with "dleegordon"

_________________________________
Lee Gordon
http://www.leegordonproductions.com

"Lee Gordon" wrote in message
news
My problem with Norm's show is watching him push piece after piece
through
his machines. How about cutting those parts of the show and a little more
on setup etc.

I agree that I'd like to see Norm do some of the setups but he has to make
a few cuts on TV. Otherwise it would look like the pieces just appeared
by magic. At least Norm generally makes only one demonstation cut per
component. His way is a lot better than the Router Guys who cut every
dado, every rabbet, every tongue and every groove on every piece of every
project. That wouldn't be so bad if you could smell the sawdust.

Those router guys are sure good for insomnia. And their imprecise fence
setups are amazing to watch too. Loosen and hit with your fist. You better
get it right the first time because it will e hard to repeat anything.

As for Nahm, I cringe everytime I hear that lawyer mandated safety lecture.
Since he does all kinds of things that I would never do safety wise. He
just LOVES to run things through the tablesaw and router table with his
fingers VERY close to some rapidly spinning metal.

Sometimes I put my hands in my pocket or behind me whenhe does that. It is
hard to watch.

On Thu, 2 Mar 2006 13:05:07 -0500, "Lee Michaels"
wrote:

And their imprecise fence setups are amazing to watch too. Loosen and
hit with your fist.

I've never seen them hit it with their fist; they always use their
"fine adjusting tool" (a hammer), which actually is capable of a wide
range of incremental impact forces. I thought it hilarious the first
time I heard it several years ago and still find it amusing. It's also
extremely effective.

In actuality, they are far more precise in their setups than a lot of
"experts" are--as the elder points out, "ol' Bob don't measure much."
They gauge most of their setups on actual tool and/or material
dimensions, or gauge blocks, and rarely use any sort of measuring
device, which could lead to memory or interpretive error.

As for Nahm... He just LOVES to run things through the tablesaw
and router table with his fingers VERY close to some rapidly spinning metal.

Having watched every episode several times, I feel compelled to point
out that the magic of long (telephoto) lenses often makes his fingers
appear much closer to the blade than they actually are. If one is
unaware of the foreshortening effects of such lenses it is easy to get
the impression the fingers are dangerously close, when in reality,
they are every bit as far away as you or I would have them.

--
LRod

Master Woodbutcher and seasoned termite

Shamelessly whoring my website since 1999

http://www.woodbutcher.net

Proud participant of rec.woodworking since February, 1997

email addy de-spam-ified due to 1,000 spams per month.
If you can't figure out how to use it, I probably wouldn't
care to correspond with you anyway.

On Wed, 01 Mar 2006 21:13:42 GMT, "Pete C."
wrote:

Production crew time costs $. Production crew sitting on their thumbs
waiting for glue to dry wastes $.

So why show any of the construction process? Time is money, remember?
If they really were worried about that, they could have something they
glued together earlier, like they do on cooking shows.

On Wed, 01 Mar 2006 21:01:32 GMT, "Leon"
wrote:

Dang it Brian... does that mean I am gunna have to stop watching one? LOL

Nope, both shows have different things to offer, just like Popular
Woodworking and Fine Woodworking have different things to offer. Both
are good, in their own way.

On Thu, 2 Mar 2006 13:05:07 -0500, "Lee Michaels"
wrote:

As for Nahm, I cringe everytime I hear that lawyer mandated safety lecture.
Since he does all kinds of things that I would never do safety wise. He
just LOVES to run things through the tablesaw and router table with his
fingers VERY close to some rapidly spinning metal.

Don't you love that? Every time I'm watching Norm and he goes into
his "Let's take a moment to talk about shop safety", she always adds
"And watch you ignore it all."

On Wed, 1 Mar 2006 07:44:10 -0700, "GeeDubb"

How true--my weakness is chocolate.

Mine too - plus, that stuff is damned hard to wipe off my furniture
pieces.

Not if it's got poly on it first....

Do I hear the makings of a sad shop story there?

Matt

"Lee Michaels" wrote in
:

As for Nahm, I cringe everytime I hear that lawyer mandated safety
lecture. Since he does all kinds of things that I would never do
safety wise. He just LOVES to run things through the tablesaw and
router table with his fingers VERY close to some rapidly spinning
metal.

I find it instructive to look at his fingers when they show a close-up of
stuff he's holding. Purple finger nails, band-aides, and healing cuts.
He's definitly not superman.

Brian Henderson wrote:

On Wed, 01 Mar 2006 21:13:42 GMT, "Pete C."
wrote:

Production crew time costs $. Production crew sitting on their thumbs
waiting for glue to dry wastes $.

So why show any of the construction process? Time is money, remember?
If they really were worried about that, they could have something they
glued together earlier, like they do on cooking shows.

It's a common sense tradeoff between wasting production crew time and
wasting Norm / construction crew time building ten copies of the item to
different stages so they can all be shot at once.

Pete C.

It's a common sense tradeoff between wasting production crew time and
wasting Norm / construction crew time building ten copies of the item to
different stages so they can all be shot at once.

In the case of NYW it would be a waste to do this because, contrary to the
belief of many, Norm does not have a crew of minions to do his grunt work.
Those members of the crew who are present in the workshop are there to
produce the TV show, not to build stuff. IOW, the crew is there to assist
Russ Morash (the producer -- and most likely the guy who decides what finish
gets applied to the wood), not Norm. There is one guy on the crew who helps
Norm but his duties are mainly involve helping to set up the tools and
keeping the workshop clean.

Lee

--
To e-mail, replace "bucketofspam" with "dleegordon"

_________________________________
Lee Gordon
http://www.leegordonproductions.com

Lee Gordon wrote:
There is one guy on the crew who helps
Norm but his duties are mainly involve helping to set up the tools and
keeping the workshop clean.

Where do you get one of those? And I don't want to hear I have to
_pay_ someone. That's cheating. I'd like an unpaid apprentice
interested in learning shop cleanup who has absolutely no ambitions yet
has a killer work ethic. If any one knows of such a person please
contact me at:

yesiknowiliveinadreamworldbutyoucantblameaguyfortr ying.com

R

"RicodJour" wrote in message
ups.com...
Lee Gordon wrote:
There is one guy on the crew who helps
Norm but his duties are mainly involve helping to set up the tools and
keeping the workshop clean.

Where do you get one of those? And I don't want to hear I have to
_pay_ someone. That's cheating. I'd like an unpaid apprentice
interested in learning shop cleanup who has absolutely no ambitions yet
has a killer work ethic. If any one knows of such a person please
contact me at:

yesiknowiliveinadreamworldbutyoucantblameaguyfortr ying.com

R


I find them every year. Local highschool wood shop. Once they're out of
school, I finance their projects. I buy the materials, supply the tools and
shop. They design and complete their project and sell it. The costs come off
the top and then we split the profit 60/40. They get the 60. After a year or
so, they move on and most of them make it from there on their own.

Locutus wrote:
I love watching NYWS and TOH, but it seems like any references to him on
here are people making fun of him. Is Norm not as good as we are lead to
believe?



Norm has a show, I don't...

Who am I to judge?

Barry

Josh wrote:
The thing I don't like is when he does stuff with equipment that the
majority of use will never have. I don't think there are too many
people here who have a molding cutter with custom laser-cut knives for
each project.

Many of us have shapers and router tables. Custom profiles aren't that
out of this world, but you could always substitute stock profiles.


And how about his $800 pocket-hole machine?

Which works exactly like the $50 pocket hole jigs, only faster.

That being said, he's still pretty damned good, and he was making nice
stuff long before he got all these nice gizmos and gadgets.

I agree, and you'd be shocked how many people buy the big ticket tools.

Barry

Don Dando wrote:
He talks funny !


All of us New Englanders want to know what you mean.

Next, you'll say Cliff Claven talked funny... Jeez! G

Barry

"B a r r y" wrote in message
om...



And how about his $800 pocket-hole machine?

Which works exactly like the $50 pocket hole jigs, only faster.

From what I have heard by a user, the "faster" part may be debatable.

"B a r r y" wrote in message
om...
Don Dando wrote:
He talks funny !


All of us New Englanders want to know what you mean.

Simple. Go To Texas and listen to how we speak. We of course speak English
as it was intended. All Y'all up there add sounds to your words. :~)

On Sat, 04 Mar 2006 13:30:23 GMT, "Leon"
wrote:


"B a r r y" wrote in message
. com...
Don Dando wrote:
He talks funny !


All of us New Englanders want to know what you mean.

Simple. Go To Texas and listen to how we speak. We of course speak English
as it was intended. All Y'all up there add sounds to your words. :~)


... or take sounds away. It's draw-ERS folks, not draws, and when I read
it car has an "r" in it, not a "w" :-)


+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+

If you're gonna be dumb, you better be tough

+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+

"Ba r r y" wrote in message
...
Actually, as you move down to Southern New England (East Westchester
County to Charlie), we sound less like Norm, and more like Tony
Soprano and Gene Simmons.


Whew, the first time I read that I though you said that you sound more like
Tony soprano and "Richard" Simmons. ;~)


So yes, Norm does talk funny, but not as funny as Texans. G

Barry

On Sat, 04 Mar 2006 18:34:56 GMT, "Leon"
wrote:


"Mark & Juanita" wrote in message
.. .
On Sat, 04 Mar 2006 13:30:23 GMT, "Leon"

... or take sounds away. It's draw-ERS folks, not draws, and when I read
it car has an "r" in it, not a "w" :-)


Its funny, send for measured "drawerings" of a chest of "draws". And that
garden expert on TOH and Ask TOH.... I often have to pause, back up, mute
to see the caption, and play my DVR forward again to understand what he is
saying. Let's take a Wok to the Pock to see if the Goden needs Waddur.

In a recent episode, he (Roger Cook, by the way) was helping a gal
with a sprinkler and had her digging a hole. The first shovelful she
tossed on the grass and he said, "whoa, don't put it on the grass!"

She said, "that's where you told me to put it; on the top."

He said, "no, I said put it over here on the top." (pointing to the
blue tarp nearby)

I've seen that episode two or three times and replayed it a couple
more and I'd swear he said "top" too.

On another episode he had done some job in Cambridge and in the
discussion after the segment the three others (Kevin O'Connor, Rich
Trethewey, and Tom Silva) tricked him into saying something to the
effect that he had to, "pahk the cah in Hahvahd yahd." He caught
himself just afterward as the others were rolling on the floor.

Years ago I was working with a couple of guys from Ware County, GA
(Waycross area), and when the two of them got together and started
talking it was almost impossible to understand them.

One day I asked them what you called the thing you shot with a bow.
"An err."
Okay, what's that stuff you breathe? "Air."
Alright, what's a mistake? "A Err."

They pronounced all three indistinguishably.

--
LRod

Master Woodbutcher and seasoned termite

Shamelessly whoring my website since 1999

http://www.woodbutcher.net

Proud participant of rec.woodworking since February, 1997

email addy de-spam-ified due to 1,000 spams per month.
If you can't figure out how to use it, I probably wouldn't
care to correspond with you anyway.

In article ,
LRod wrote:

In a recent episode, he (Roger Cook, by the way) was helping a gal
with a sprinkler and had her digging a hole. The first shovelful she
tossed on the grass and he said, "whoa, don't put it on the grass!"

She said, "that's where you told me to put it; on the top."

He said, "no, I said put it over here on the top." (pointing to the
blue tarp nearby)

I've seen that episode two or three times and replayed it a couple
more and I'd swear he said "top" too.

That was a funny bit of ATOH footage. (I think, btw, that the spelling
for what he was talking about - as opposed to what she thought he was
saying - would be "tawp".)
--
Owen Lowe
The Fly-by-Night Copper Company
__________

"I pledge allegiance to the flag of the
Corporate States of America and to the
Republicans for which it stands, one nation,
under debt, easily divisible, with liberty
and justice for oil."
- Wiley Miller, Non Sequitur, 1/24/05

On another episode he had done some job in Cambridge and in the
discussion after the segment the three others (Kevin O'Connor, Rich
Trethewey, and Tom Silva) tricked him into saying something to the
effect that he had to, "pahk the cah in Hahvahd yahd." He caught
himself just afterward as the others were rolling on the floor.

It's funny that Trethewey was in on that gag considering that in the early
years of TOH he used to say "bahth" and "bahthroom" and trained himself
(probably at the insistence of the producers) to say those words the way the
rest of us do.

Lee



--
To e-mail, replace "bucketofspam" with "dleegordon"

_________________________________
Lee Gordon
http://www.leegordonproductions.com

Norm is how I got into woodworking. I havent seen him in a couple of
years but enjoyed him when I did watch him. I watch David Marks now
because of the hand tools use. He does some turning which I've gotton
into. The guy turning on DIY I watch some as well. None of these people
have projects that I ve built with norms router table ( not fence or
top) the exception. What I'am looking for is techniques. I've been
using blue tape at joints for easier glue clean up of joints. I use
scrapers more now.Thanks DM. Lets find the positives that these
crafters offer. Yes David has a $5000 + Oneway lathe but his technique
works on my $100 Rockwell/Delta.

Smaug Ichorfang wrote:

I find it instructive to look at his fingers when they show a close-up of
stuff he's holding. Purple finger nails, band-aides, and healing cuts.
He's definitly not superman.

At least he hasn't bled all over a project like Roy Underhill does on a
regular basis.


--
David Hannu

"David Hannu" wrote
Smaug Ichorfang wrote:

I find it instructive to look at his fingers when they show a close-up of
stuff he's holding. Purple finger nails, band-aides, and healing cuts.
He's definitly not superman.

At least he hasn't bled all over a project like Roy Underhill does on a
regular basis.


How can you tell?

The stain job he does would probably cover up the blood quite nicely.

Norm rules . . .



"Locutus" wrote in message
...
I love watching NYWS and TOH, but it seems like any references to him on
here are people making fun of him. Is Norm not as good as we are lead to
believe?

Norm isn't perfect, but some of the characters here seem to think that they
are. In my opinion, Norm is a very qualified woodworker and does a pretty
fine job of building many more projects than a lot of the characters that
seem to like bashing him on this newsgroup have ever done. So what if he
doesn't make every joint perfect or finish every project to the quality
level that some here seem to think is perfect in their minds.

What Norm has really accomplished with his shows is to get a huge number of
people interested in woodworking and furniture making who probably would
never have attempted it if they hadn't watched Norm do it. Watching him
makes people say to themselves "I could do that", and then many of them
actually have. With the large number of high schools discontinuing their
shop classes in recent years, the number of people even interested in doing
woodworking would have been falling significantly faster than it is if it
wasn't for Norm. He is a very good teacher and he shows machining and
assembly steps well enough for people to actually learn how to do it by just
watching his shows. I don't care if he's not perfect, he's a hero in my mind
for what he's done for the woodworking public and for increasing interest in
woodworking among our young generation, many of whom might not have ever
picked up a tool and built something out of wood if it wasn't for Norm. We
need him and more like him.

--
Charley


"Steve DeMars" wrote in message
news:BMb3g.28229$_z2.2249@dukeread02...
Norm rules . . .



"Locutus" wrote in message
...
I love watching NYWS and TOH, but it seems like any references to him on
here are people making fun of him. Is Norm not as good as we are lead to
believe?

Amen


On Tue, 25 Apr 2006 02:54:51 GMT, "Charley"
wrote:

Norm isn't perfect, but some of the characters here seem to think that they
are. In my opinion, Norm is a very qualified woodworker and does a pretty
fine job of building many more projects than a lot of the characters that
seem to like bashing him on this newsgroup have ever done. So what if he
doesn't make every joint perfect or finish every project to the quality
level that some here seem to think is perfect in their minds.

What Norm has really accomplished with his shows is to get a huge number of
people interested in woodworking and furniture making who probably would
never have attempted it if they hadn't watched Norm do it. Watching him
makes people say to themselves "I could do that", and then many of them
actually have. With the large number of high schools discontinuing their
shop classes in recent years, the number of people even interested in doing
woodworking would have been falling significantly faster than it is if it
wasn't for Norm. He is a very good teacher and he shows machining and
assembly steps well enough for people to actually learn how to do it by just
watching his shows. I don't care if he's not perfect, he's a hero in my mind
for what he's done for the woodworking public and for increasing interest in
woodworking among our young generation, many of whom might not have ever
picked up a tool and built something out of wood if it wasn't for Norm. We
need him and more like him.

Charley wrote:
Norm isn't perfect, but some of the characters here seem to think that they
are. In my opinion, Norm is a very qualified woodworker and does a pretty
fine job of building many more projects than a lot of the characters that
seem to like bashing him on this newsgroup have ever done. So what if he
doesn't make every joint perfect or finish every project to the quality
level that some here seem to think is perfect in their minds.

What Norm has really accomplished with his shows is to get a huge number of
people interested in woodworking and furniture making who probably would
never have attempted it if they hadn't watched Norm do it. Watching him
makes people say to themselves "I could do that", and then many of them
actually have. With the large number of high schools discontinuing their
shop classes in recent years, the number of people even interested in doing
woodworking would have been falling significantly faster than it is if it
wasn't for Norm. He is a very good teacher and he shows machining and
assembly steps well enough for people to actually learn how to do it by just
watching his shows. I don't care if he's not perfect, he's a hero in my mind
for what he's done for the woodworking public and for increasing interest in
woodworking among our young generation, many of whom might not have ever
picked up a tool and built something out of wood if it wasn't for Norm. We
need him and more like him.



Watching the NYW was what got me started!!

Sarge

The Charley entity posted thusly:

Norm isn't perfect, but some of the characters here seem to think that they
are. In my opinion, Norm is a very qualified woodworker and does a pretty
fine job of building many more projects than a lot of the characters that
seem to like bashing him on this newsgroup have ever done.

Hey, a critic doesn't have to be better that the one he is
criticizing. I watch what few woodworking shows I have access to in
order to learn something.

What Norm has really accomplished with his shows is to get a huge number of
people interested in woodworking and furniture making who probably would
never have attempted it if they hadn't watched Norm do it.

OK, so I'm interested. He did good. Now I look for other ways to
progress.

On Tue, 25 Apr 2006 02:54:51 GMT, "Charley"
wrote:

What Norm has really accomplished with his shows is to get a huge number of
people interested in woodworking and furniture making who probably would
never have attempted it if they hadn't watched Norm do it. Watching him
makes people say to themselves "I could do that", and then many of them
actually have. With the large number of high schools discontinuing their
shop classes in recent years, the number of people even interested in doing
woodworking would have been falling significantly faster than it is if it
wasn't for Norm. He is a very good teacher and he shows machining and
assembly steps well enough for people to actually learn how to do it by just
watching his shows. I don't care if he's not perfect, he's a hero in my mind
for what he's done for the woodworking public and for increasing interest in
woodworking among our young generation, many of whom might not have ever
picked up a tool and built something out of wood if it wasn't for Norm. We
need him and more like him.

That's right, that's exactly what he is. He's the guy that gets
people who have never held a hammer to think they could do what he
does. But it doesn't take too long after you've got that hammer in
your hand to realize that what Norm does isn't what you should be
striving for. He's like the high school English teacher when you're
trying to be a professional novelist. He'll get you started, but it
doesn't take too long before you outgrow him and have to move on.

The thing is, the mistakes that Norm makes, he could EASILY do better.
If you're trying to show beginners how to do things, you don't show
them how to do it easy and take shortcuts, you show them how to do it
right the first time. I don't think he's really quite sure what his
audience is. He produces servicable work, sure, but what he makes is
more suited to the weekend handyman with a couple of power tools, but
how he does it seems aimed at the dedicated craftsman with a huge
budget for every power tool under the sun. And the wood he uses seems
aimed at high-end artists who cringe when he paints over antique pine.
It seems to me that he's trying to be all things to all people and
isn't doing any of it particularly well.

"Brian Henderson" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 25 Apr 2006 02:54:51 GMT, "Charley"
wrote:

What Norm has really accomplished with his shows is to get a huge number
of
people interested in woodworking and furniture making who probably would
never have attempted it if they hadn't watched Norm do it. Watching him
makes people say to themselves "I could do that", and then many of them
actually have. With the large number of high schools discontinuing their
shop classes in recent years, the number of people even interested in
doing
woodworking would have been falling significantly faster than it is if it
wasn't for Norm. He is a very good teacher and he shows machining and
assembly steps well enough for people to actually learn how to do it by
just
watching his shows. I don't care if he's not perfect, he's a hero in my
mind
for what he's done for the woodworking public and for increasing interest
in
woodworking among our young generation, many of whom might not have ever
picked up a tool and built something out of wood if it wasn't for Norm. We
need him and more like him.

That's right, that's exactly what he is. He's the guy that gets
people who have never held a hammer to think they could do what he
does. But it doesn't take too long after you've got that hammer in
your hand to realize that what Norm does isn't what you should be
striving for. He's like the high school English teacher when you're
trying to be a professional novelist. He'll get you started, but it
doesn't take too long before you outgrow him and have to move on.

I watched him for the first time 18 years ago. I had a bit of a history
with tools, but I credit him for inspiring me. Even still I long to be able
to build what he builds.

The thing is, the mistakes that Norm makes, he could EASILY do better.

Can you give some examples, please? I watch his show and I see little if
anything wrong with what he does. I read Fine Woodworking, I lurk here, I
converse with woodworkers I know and I spend my own time and money working
wood. Am I retarded?

If you're trying to show beginners how to do things, you don't show
them how to do it easy and take shortcuts, you show them how to do it
right the first time. I don't think he's really quite sure what his
audience is. He produces servicable work, sure, but what he makes is
more suited to the weekend handyman with a couple of power tools, but
how he does it seems aimed at the dedicated craftsman with a huge
budget for every power tool under the sun. And the wood he uses seems
aimed at high-end artists who cringe when he paints over antique pine.
It seems to me that he's trying to be all things to all people and
isn't doing any of it particularly well.

I admit I don't like it when he stains and glazes a large cherry piece of
furniture, but I also admit that I usually like how it looks when he's done.
I won't do it that way, but I still think he does a good job.

I would also like to know how come he never seems to inflict all the tearout
I do when he's milling with power tools. Even with a freshly sharpened
blade I have to take the time (and lots of it) to score the fibres on a
piece that's going to show. I use backer boards and the whole bit, but I
never seem to be able to measure up to Norm's lofty standard.

If he's not so good, how did YOU get beyond him?

- Owen -

On Thu, 11 May 2006 15:17:31 -0400, "Owen Lawrence"
wrote:

Can you give some examples, please? I watch his show and I see little if
anything wrong with what he does. I read Fine Woodworking, I lurk here, I
converse with woodworkers I know and I spend my own time and money working
wood. Am I retarded?

The same thing everyone complains about. His hideous finishes, his
full-auto brad nailer, etc. Technically, what he builds is certainly
credible and I'm never going to fault him on his ability to build and
design, he comes up with some really nice stuff. There are just a lot
of points when you stare at the TV going "why in the world is he doing
it like that?"

If he's not so good, how did YOU get beyond him?

Experience and not being limited by what he does. Once you learn what
a clamp is, you stop putting brads through face frames. Once you
learn how to stain and finish, especially once you get working on a
HVLP system, you stop thinking that ugly paint is the way to go. Now
granted, Norm is usually building simple household-style items, not
fine furniture and doesn't pretend that he is, but it's when people
start moving beyond simple cabinets and the like and into projects
that take an artistic bent that they've outgrown Norm.

For what Norm does, he's fine, but Norm is certainly not the
end-all-be-all of what woodworking can be or is.