I have been thinking about upgrading my sharpening capabilities.
Consequently, I was excited when I saw that FWW did a review of motorized
sharpening systems.

Boy was I disappointed. The author did a minireview of each machine, but
used different criteria for each machine, or at least commented on different
aspects of each machine. This approach made it pretty much impossible
compare and contrast products.

I paid particularly close attention to the Makita 9820-2.The author said
that it is great for jointer and planer knives, it is a weak for plane irons
because you have to freehand the iron on the tool rest.

I find this odd because Steve Knight has been a proponent of this tool and
he uses it primarily for plane irons. On top of that he just invested in a
spiral jointer setup (abandoning the ability to in-house-sharpen his
knives). It just seems all very counter to the articles assessment.

I specifically want to in-source my jointer and planer knife sharpening. The
review of the Makita would have been more helpful if it told me what other
systems had knife sharpening capability and if it was any good.

In fairness, knife sharpening was probably outside the scope of the article,
but the introduction said that he would test the systems on chisels plane
irons and carving tools. I don't recall him commenting on carving tool
capability anywhere in the article.

My dad has a Delta 23-700, one of the tools reviewed. Frankly, I think the
quality of that unit sucks. The article really did not pan any unit. It just
picked a favorite.

Did anyone else think that article left allot to be desired?

-Steve

I haven't goten to that paticular article yet but...it sure seems to me that
any of FWW's reviewers are way too careful about stepping on any toes. Is
this a case of biting the hand that feeds you? I also wish that they could
be more critical of the tools that they review. At least they finally
started using the "Best Value" and "Best Overall" indicators. Before that it
was neutral reviews in the EXTREME. At any rate, I still wait by the mail
box each time an issue is due to arrive.

Jon


"Stephen M" wrote in message
...
I have been thinking about upgrading my sharpening capabilities.
Consequently, I was excited when I saw that FWW did a review of motorized
sharpening systems.

Boy was I disappointed. The author did a minireview of each machine, but
used different criteria for each machine, or at least commented on
different
aspects of each machine. This approach made it pretty much impossible
compare and contrast products.

I paid particularly close attention to the Makita 9820-2.The author said
that it is great for jointer and planer knives, it is a weak for plane
irons
because you have to freehand the iron on the tool rest.

I find this odd because Steve Knight has been a proponent of this tool
and
he uses it primarily for plane irons. On top of that he just invested in a
spiral jointer setup (abandoning the ability to in-house-sharpen his
knives). It just seems all very counter to the articles assessment.

I specifically want to in-source my jointer and planer knife sharpening.
The
review of the Makita would have been more helpful if it told me what other
systems had knife sharpening capability and if it was any good.

In fairness, knife sharpening was probably outside the scope of the
article,
but the introduction said that he would test the systems on chisels plane
irons and carving tools. I don't recall him commenting on carving tool
capability anywhere in the article.

My dad has a Delta 23-700, one of the tools reviewed. Frankly, I think the
quality of that unit sucks. The article really did not pan any unit. It
just
picked a favorite.

Did anyone else think that article left allot to be desired?

-Steve

"Stephen M" writes:

I paid particularly close attention to the Makita 9820-2.The author said
that it is great for jointer and planer knives, it is a weak for plane irons
because you have to freehand the iron on the tool rest.

I find this odd because Steve Knight has been a proponent of this tool and
he uses it primarily for plane irons.

Yeah - Highland Hardware sells a $14.95 2-in-1 jig that solves this
problem. A 15 second google search would have found it (It's listed
as #7 - "User's Guide" when searching for "makita" and "9820."

I was not impressed with the review.



--
Sending unsolicited commercial e-mail to this account incurs a fee of
$500 per message, and acknowledges the legality of this contract.

"Stephen M" wrote:

My dad has a Delta 23-700, one of the tools reviewed. Frankly, I think
the quality of that unit sucks. The article really did not pan any
unit. It just picked a favorite.



Sucks doesn't even come Close to describing the 23-700! I hate to dump that
much metal in the recycling, but that's where it will wind up. The tool
rest for the wet wheel is not too bad, and I've scavenged that for another
grinder.

DO NOT BUY ONE!!

The trend of "reviews" seems to be going towards
product descriptions and perhaps "features" with
little if any mention of how well it works or doesn't
work and why - in real world terms. They might
as just put this stuff in the New Products Announcement
section and save us all the time trying to compare
pros and cons before forking over some dough.

Between the bean counters and the lawyers the
world is heading towards beige. At some point
I'll be happy with mauve.

charlie b

charlie b wrote:
The trend of "reviews" seems to be going towards
product descriptions and perhaps "features" with
little if any mention of how well it works or doesn't
work and why - in real world terms. They might
as just put this stuff in the New Products Announcement
section and save us all the time trying to compare
pros and cons before forking over some dough.

Between the bean counters and the lawyers the
world is heading towards beige. At some point
I'll be happy with mauve.

charlie b

I don't know if any of you are into audio, but that same happens in
those magazines, as this very funny article notes.


http://www.g8wrb.org/useful-stuff/audiophools.pdf



--
Dave K

http://www.southminster-branch-line.org.uk/

Please note my email address changes periodically to avoid spam.
It is always of the form: month-year@domain. Hitting reply will work
for a couple of months only. Later set it manually. The month is
always written in 3 letters (e.g. Jan, not January etc)

Read the FWW aricle and concur with your observation.

IMHO most rags understand that their revenue stream is based on
adverisers, not subscribers. Not "biting the hand" is, regretfully,
symptomatic.

There are avery few magazines that avoid this problem. Two I know (and
subscribe to) are Gun Tests and Consumers Report. They both call it
like it is because they accept no advertising.

Gun Tests has saved me lots of bucks (or tears) on firearm's stuff
that sounds good, comes from "reputable" manufacturers, but fails the
real world test.

Wish we woodwookers had an equivalent.

Regards.

Tom

On Tue, 27 Dec 2005 08:06:02 -0500, "Stephen M"
wrote:

Did anyone else think that article left allot to be desired?

-Steve

Read the FWW aricle and concur with your observation.

IMHO most rags understand that their revenue stream is based on
adverisers, not subscribers. Not "biting the hand" is, regretfully,
symptomatic.

While that is true and I can understand that balancing act, other
advertising magazines to manage to do much better veviews.

The author could have provided a table of list prices capacities and
capabilities/jigs for each machine. The author did not even manage to do
this in the form of prose because he reviewed each tool differently.

BTW, does anyone in their right mind try to lap tools on the side of a
wheel? I've never tried it but it seems to me it would have all the
effectiveness of flattening a table table top with a belt sander.


-Steve

Did they cover the Lee Valley turntable system? I haven't seen much said
about it for some reason.

Yes, it was a favorite of the review.


"Gordon Airporte" wrote in message
...
Did they cover the Lee Valley turntable system? I haven't seen much said
about it for some reason.

Stephen M wrote:
snip
BTW, does anyone in their right mind try to lap tools on the side of a
wheel? I've never tried it but it seems to me it would have all the
effectiveness of flattening a table table top with a belt sander.

Effectiveness is not the problem--using the side of a wheel can be
effective--it's safety. Most wheels and grinders are not designed to
have sideways force applied, and that method can cause the wheel to
shatter. Wheels shattering at that speed demand very good protection
devices if you don't want to spend time in the hospital.

H

Stephen M wrote:
Read the FWW aricle and concur with your observation.

IMHO most rags understand that their revenue stream is based on
adverisers, not subscribers. Not "biting the hand" is, regretfully,
symptomatic.

While that is true and I can understand that balancing act, other
advertising magazines to manage to do much better veviews.

The author could have provided a table of list prices capacities and
capabilities/jigs for each machine. The author did not even manage to do
this in the form of prose because he reviewed each tool differently.

BTW, does anyone in their right mind try to lap tools on the side of a
wheel? I've never tried it but it seems to me it would have all the
effectiveness of flattening a table table top with a belt sander.


-Steve


a belt sander is an appropriate tool for flattening a tabletop if the
table top is starting from a flatness of less than what the belt sander
can produce. after that you'll prolly want to progress on to something
with a bit more finesse.

I have a chisel that I have been working on for a couple of years now.
it's about 2-1/2" or 3" wide and weighs 3 or 4 pounds- and spent a
bunch of time in the bottom of a bucket of dirty water. I have a plan
for it which includes lapping the sole flat. the pits in the sole are
something to behold... and I've been working it on the side of a
grinding wheel for a while now.

point being, a tool can be applied in more than one way. you could lap
tools on the pavement by leaning out the door with them and bearing
down on the freeway as you go down the road if that was the grade of
work required.....

BTW, does anyone in their right mind try to lap tools on the side of a
wheel? I've never tried it but it seems to me it would have all the
effectiveness of flattening a table table top with a belt sander.

a belt sander is an appropriate tool for flattening a tabletop if the
table top is starting from a flatness of less than what the belt sander
can produce. after that you'll prolly want to progress on to something
with a bit more finesse.

Have you ever tried it?

I think you may have missed my point. A tabletop so something which will
show a dig-in mercilessly. This is simply beacuse your face gets close to
it, often with light reflecting off it at an angle. I know that you *can*
flatten a table top with a belt sander, but you had better have quality unit
and more importantly a well-finessed touch. I would venture to bet that in
most cases beltsander + tabletop = mess.

It's really the wrong tool for the job and is particularly prone to creating
more of a problem than it solves.

-Steve

Read the instructions to the Tormek and come back. We'll wait.

"hylourgos" wrote in message
ups.com...
Effectiveness is not the problem--using the side of a wheel can be
effective--it's safety. Most wheels and grinders are not designed to
have sideways force applied, and that method can cause the wheel to
shatter. Wheels shattering at that speed demand very good protection
devices if you don't want to spend time in the hospital.

H

OK, I'll bite: wait for what?

For you to fallow the instructions in the previous post.

"hylourgos" wrote in message
oups.com...
OK, I'll bite: wait for what?

I was in the same space as you are now, wanting to insource my jointer
and planer knive sharpening. I went with the makita and never looked
back. It is wonderful for that job, and the way I figure the cost of
sharpening knives on an outsource basis after five or six sharpenings
I'll have the unit paid for, at least that's the way I look at it.
Ditto the comment on the Highland hardware aftermarket jig for irons
and chisels, for another $15 its worth it.

As far as how the machine works, it took me about 30 minutes to do the
first 15" planer knive, the second took 15 minutes, the third 5. There
is a learning curve, but the guide rule assembly is excellent.
Download the instructions for using the machine that is found at the
Highland Hardware site, they are very good and much clearer than the
instructions that come with the manual. I picked mine up on a trip to
the Grizzly store near Williamsport PA for $250, best $250 I have spent
on a sharpening machine; I have the white waterwheel delta and its on a
shelf, and has been for quite a while, its garbage.

Mutt

Stephen M wrote:
I have been thinking about upgrading my sharpening capabilities.
Consequently, I was excited when I saw that FWW did a review of motorized
sharpening systems.

Boy was I disappointed. The author did a minireview of each machine, but
used different criteria for each machine, or at least commented on different
aspects of each machine. This approach made it pretty much impossible
compare and contrast products.

I paid particularly close attention to the Makita 9820-2.The author said
that it is great for jointer and planer knives, it is a weak for plane irons
because you have to freehand the iron on the tool rest.

I find this odd because Steve Knight has been a proponent of this tool and
he uses it primarily for plane irons. On top of that he just invested in a
spiral jointer setup (abandoning the ability to in-house-sharpen his
knives). It just seems all very counter to the articles assessment.

I specifically want to in-source my jointer and planer knife sharpening. The
review of the Makita would have been more helpful if it told me what other
systems had knife sharpening capability and if it was any good.

In fairness, knife sharpening was probably outside the scope of the article,
but the introduction said that he would test the systems on chisels plane
irons and carving tools. I don't recall him commenting on carving tool
capability anywhere in the article.

My dad has a Delta 23-700, one of the tools reviewed. Frankly, I think the
quality of that unit sucks. The article really did not pan any unit. It just
picked a favorite.

Did anyone else think that article left allot to be desired?

-Steve

OK, I did. Now what?