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#1
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Ply thickness RANT
Folks -
Okay, Sunday afternoon.... Just finished a glue up, and don't really want to start a finishing project... So, how about a "shop job"? Sure, he thinks - How about building that set of drawers for the bench? Maybe get the crap off of the bench and into some drawers? Maybe? Got enough poplar and pine on hand? Yep, good! Got 1/2" plywood for the gallery? Yep, good! Not so fast, bubba.... Okay, I have several sheets of 1/2" ply... I take a look see, and remember that I got a set of plywood thickness bits from Grizzly as a Christmas gift.... Good chance to try 'em out making dadoes for the ply. HA! Okay, WTF? I have 1/2" plywood. One sheet is 1/2" right on the money. Okay.. odd, but okay.. The other partial sheet is 23/32... That's what I was expecting. The third partial is just *under* 7/16, and the last sheet is something that is none of the above, although it *IS* exactly 9mm. 'Scuse me, but how the FAQ is this? I don't want to cut multiple width dadoes - that's a recipie for disaster. Am I now to expect that 1/2 ply, er, 23/32 can't be relied upon, and I should expect something between 3/8" and a full 1/2"? This is NUTS. Especially at close to 50 bucks a sheet. How does your scrap bin measure up? This really is a ****er.... John Moorhead |
#2
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I feal you're pain (PITA actually). I just did the same thing today - went
to cut a couple drawers out of cut off 1/2 ply from my scrap bin. Didn't bother to check it - all the stuff was from a recent trips to the borg. Two different sizes I didn't discover until the drawers didn't go together right. What as ****er. And of course there wasn't enough left to cut more - truly Murphy at work. jim bailey "John Moorhead" wrote in message ... Folks - Okay, Sunday afternoon.... Just finished a glue up, and don't really want to start a finishing project... So, how about a "shop job"? Sure, he thinks - How about building that set of drawers for the bench? Maybe get the crap off of the bench and into some drawers? Maybe? Got enough poplar and pine on hand? Yep, good! Got 1/2" plywood for the gallery? Yep, good! Not so fast, bubba.... Okay, I have several sheets of 1/2" ply... I take a look see, and remember that I got a set of plywood thickness bits from Grizzly as a Christmas gift.... Good chance to try 'em out making dadoes for the ply. HA! Okay, WTF? I have 1/2" plywood. One sheet is 1/2" right on the money. Okay.. odd, but okay.. The other partial sheet is 23/32... That's what I was expecting. The third partial is just *under* 7/16, and the last sheet is something that is none of the above, although it *IS* exactly 9mm. 'Scuse me, but how the FAQ is this? I don't want to cut multiple width dadoes - that's a recipie for disaster. Am I now to expect that 1/2 ply, er, 23/32 can't be relied upon, and I should expect something between 3/8" and a full 1/2"? This is NUTS. Especially at close to 50 bucks a sheet. How does your scrap bin measure up? This really is a ****er.... John Moorhead |
#3
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"John Moorhead" wrote in message
Okay, WTF? I have 1/2" plywood. One sheet is 1/2" right on the money. Okay.. odd, but okay.. The other partial sheet is 23/32... That's what I was expecting. The third partial is just *under* 7/16, and the last sheet is something that is none of the above, although it *IS* exactly 9mm. No insult intended, but where have you been hibernating? Imperial measure, metric conversions and 1/2 dimensions in between both measurement systems have been flooding the market for several years now. Not sure if that's how it is down in the USA, but up here in Canada it's called Pot-Luck sizing as far as I'm concerned. Personally, I think all the router bit manufacturers made some kind of back room deal to sell more router bits. |
#4
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Upscale -
Ho-kay.... Blame the victim - I've gotten used to 23/32" plywood which was *apparently* at the time, supposed to be the *actual* thickness of the "1/2" ply after it had been finish sanded. Fair enough... But *why* now, are there a total of FOUR "sizes" of 1/2" thick stock? What kind of control at the mill gives you 1/2", 23/32", 7/16" and 9mm all grouped under 1/2" thickness....This is NUTS! I think this follows the progression that 1" thick stock "means" somewhere between 11/16 and 3/4" - ah, EXCEPT for Redwood. 1x redwood had been somewhere between 11/16" and 5/8" except that now I get rough sawn boards that are *just* over 9/16". At this rate 6/4 will really mean "veneer" in a few years... At the prices they're getting, I don't really care HOW thick it is, call it 1/2" and make it ONE thickness, between 3/8" and a 1/2"... I'll deal with it, but for chrissakes, don't make me play a shell game every time I want to knock together a gallery or box. Jeeezus! I haven't had to get this creative with a ruler since I started measuring my dick! John "Upscale" wrote in message ... "John Moorhead" wrote in message Okay, WTF? I have 1/2" plywood. One sheet is 1/2" right on the money. Okay.. odd, but okay.. The other partial sheet is 23/32... That's what I was expecting. The third partial is just *under* 7/16, and the last sheet is something that is none of the above, although it *IS* exactly 9mm. No insult intended, but where have you been hibernating? Imperial measure, metric conversions and 1/2 dimensions in between both measurement systems have been flooding the market for several years now. Not sure if that's how it is down in the USA, but up here in Canada it's called Pot-Luck sizing as far as I'm concerned. Personally, I think all the router bit manufacturers made some kind of back room deal to sell more router bits. |
#5
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Ain't modern technology great. I have two sheets of 3/4 $100+ mahogany
that are not the same. If the veneer was any thiner, they would have missed. If you sneeze while sanding, you may ruin the whole project. |
#6
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I've not been WWing for so long, but I agree. I've already run into this
issue twice. I did get a nice tip from a magazine or online newsletter on the same day I had the first problem. I can't remember what the outlet was, and I know the extra work sucks, but it did work. Basically cut a slot in the ply and insert a larger-than-kerf strip to expand the size on that edge. It worked perfectly both times... both were shop fixtures so the innaccuracy didnt mean so much. Thats a work-around.. and no excuse for the problem, especially when, as you say, you spend $50 a sheet. The alternative is to keep that micrometer with you when you head out to buy the sheet goods. Thanks. "John Moorhead" wrote in message ... Folks - Okay, Sunday afternoon.... Just finished a glue up, and don't really want to start a finishing project... So, how about a "shop job"? Sure, he thinks - How about building that set of drawers for the bench? Maybe get the crap off of the bench and into some drawers? Maybe? Got enough poplar and pine on hand? Yep, good! Got 1/2" plywood for the gallery? Yep, good! Not so fast, bubba.... Okay, I have several sheets of 1/2" ply... I take a look see, and remember that I got a set of plywood thickness bits from Grizzly as a Christmas gift.... Good chance to try 'em out making dadoes for the ply. HA! Okay, WTF? I have 1/2" plywood. One sheet is 1/2" right on the money. Okay.. odd, but okay.. The other partial sheet is 23/32... That's what I was expecting. The third partial is just *under* 7/16, and the last sheet is something that is none of the above, although it *IS* exactly 9mm. 'Scuse me, but how the FAQ is this? I don't want to cut multiple width dadoes - that's a recipie for disaster. Am I now to expect that 1/2 ply, er, 23/32 can't be relied upon, and I should expect something between 3/8" and a full 1/2"? This is NUTS. Especially at close to 50 bucks a sheet. How does your scrap bin measure up? This really is a ****er.... John Moorhead |
#7
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#8
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Okay, WTF? I have 1/2" plywood. One sheet is 1/2" right on the money.
Okay.. odd, but okay.. The other partial sheet is 23/32... That's what I was expecting. The third partial is just *under* 7/16, and the last sheet is something that is none of the above, although it *IS* exactly 9mm. While I agree with the frustration over plywood thickness variations I think we need to keep some perspective here. Isn't a 23/32 thk sheet a thin 3/4 inch or fat 11/16? Not really in the 1/2 inch range? Plywood these days is manufactured to metric thickness specifications and unfortunately also allow the variations that we trip across. Much is dependant on the type and then the finish quality including sanded and unsanded. In the case of 1/2" ply it will be sold from 11 thru 12.5 mm (~7/16" thru ~1/2") and at 3/4" the range is broader with 23/32" being smack center at 18.5mm. Check any ply manufacturer site for details. Sadly none of this is of help when trying to complete a project using left overs and often even with separately purchased panels. I have seen a few tips to use tapered shims to tighten panel to dado fit but this doesn't fit my mind as a 'quality' solution. .... or as is always said double or more measure panel thickness before cutting the dado one by one ... groan :-( Ed |
#9
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"John Moorhead" wrote in message ... I haven't had to get this creative with a ruler since I started measuring my dick! Don't do that when I have just taken a drink of beer! I guess that is the explanation for your last name. Frank |
#10
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"John Moorhead" wrote in message
... Folks - Okay, Sunday afternoon.... Just finished a glue up, and don't really want to start a finishing project... So, how about a "shop job"? Sure, he thinks - How about building that set of drawers for the bench? Maybe get the crap off of the bench and into some drawers? Maybe? Got enough poplar and pine on hand? Yep, good! Got 1/2" plywood for the gallery? Yep, good! Not so fast, bubba.... Okay, I have several sheets of 1/2" ply... I take a look see, and remember that I got a set of plywood thickness bits from Grizzly as a Christmas gift.... Good chance to try 'em out making dadoes for the ply. HA! Okay, WTF? I have 1/2" plywood. One sheet is 1/2" right on the money. Okay.. odd, but okay.. The other partial sheet is 23/32... That's what I was expecting. The third partial is just *under* 7/16, and the last sheet is something that is none of the above, although it *IS* exactly 9mm. 'Scuse me, but how the FAQ is this? I don't want to cut multiple width dadoes - that's a recipie for disaster. Am I now to expect that 1/2 ply, er, 23/32 can't be relied upon, and I should expect something between 3/8" and a full 1/2"? This is NUTS. Especially at close to 50 bucks a sheet. How does your scrap bin measure up? This really is a ****er.... John Moorhead OK, I'll pile on. This happened to me not long ago, but for me, it was on "identical" sheets that I purchased at the same time. I didn't realize until I was about to glue up that I had basically two different thicknesses. I had done my test fits from pieces that were from one sheet and then cut all the dadoes based on that. I'm with the other comments...I don't care if it's 15/32 or 12mm, just make it consistent within a reasonable tolerance. todd |
#11
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D'oh! Yes, 23/32 is "3/4"... I just had it on the brain... I guess I mean
15/32, or perhaps 29/64 or 59/128ths, ad nauseum... I guess I'm getting the same disease the lumber mfrs have... you heard what I said, but you weren't listening to what I *meant*... rrrr... My rant still stands, tho'... John "Ed & Sue Beresnikow" wrote in message ... Okay, WTF? I have 1/2" plywood. One sheet is 1/2" right on the money. Okay.. odd, but okay.. The other partial sheet is 23/32... That's what I was expecting. The third partial is just *under* 7/16, and the last sheet is something that is none of the above, although it *IS* exactly 9mm. While I agree with the frustration over plywood thickness variations I think we need to keep some perspective here. Isn't a 23/32 thk sheet a thin 3/4 inch or fat 11/16? Not really in the 1/2 inch range? Plywood these days is manufactured to metric thickness specifications and unfortunately also allow the variations that we trip across. Much is dependant on the type and then the finish quality including sanded and unsanded. In the case of 1/2" ply it will be sold from 11 thru 12.5 mm (~7/16" thru ~1/2") and at 3/4" the range is broader with 23/32" being smack center at 18.5mm. Check any ply manufacturer site for details. Sadly none of this is of help when trying to complete a project using left overs and often even with separately purchased panels. I have seen a few tips to use tapered shims to tighten panel to dado fit but this doesn't fit my mind as a 'quality' solution. ... or as is always said double or more measure panel thickness before cutting the dado one by one ... groan :-( Ed |
#12
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Okay, sure, *now* I'm greedy to boot! I'd venture a guess that over a year
the total amount of wood used in project by rec'rs as a part of the whole is probably less than the volume of sawdust produced at furniture mills on one afternoon in Vietnam. Many of us have woodlots, others buy locally from millers or locally. You want now that we should plant a forest full of saplings and will the whole mess 3 generations down the line with all of our tools to boot? What do we do then - sit in the corner and whimper? I use FSC or sustainable woods when they are available and I was a cheap SOB *LONG* before it became ecologically hip to do so... Now, go put your on your Birkinstocks, hop in your Prius and hie yourself down to Starbucks. Then head over to the compassion center for a group hug and stragety sessions for '08. Do this if you wish, but don't you *dare* make assumptions on my behalf!. If you don't have anything to contribute other than telling me to plant some trees (D'oh!) then pardon me in advance, but STFU! Lordy! John Moorhead PS: As an aside, I wonder how much paper got wasted printing up flyers and posters for Earth day? So much for mindfulness... Bless their pointy widdle heads... "Guess who" wrote in message ... On Sun, 24 Apr 2005 19:36:24 -0500, (John) wrote: Ain't modern technology great. I have two sheets of 3/4 $100+ mahogany that are not the same. If the veneer was any thiner, they would have missed. If you sneeze while sanding, you may ruin the whole project. Solution, old technology: Plant as many trees as you cut; more if you want to supply the rest of the world. Problem: (No solution) Greed. Selfishness of a now generation. We have about a dozen new walnut plantings. By the time they are of a useable size, our great great grandchildren might be able to build stuff. Hopefully they'll plant more before they run out again. The squirrels help, but they are losing the battle against pesticides and artificial fertiliser. It's just come back to bite us in the backside ...again. Stop clearcutting, and learn to farm the trees. They used walnut and oak for firewood when clearing for the fields now farmed. They didn't know better; we should. |
#13
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On Sun, 24 Apr 2005 23:44:53 GMT, "John Moorhead"
wrote: Folks - Okay, Sunday afternoon.... Just finished a glue up, and don't really want to start a finishing project... So, how about a "shop job"? Sure, he thinks - How about building that set of drawers for the bench? Maybe get the crap off of the bench and into some drawers? Maybe? Got enough poplar and pine on hand? Yep, good! Got 1/2" plywood for the gallery? Yep, good! Not so fast, bubba.... .... snip Okay, WTF? I have 1/2" plywood. One sheet is 1/2" right on the money. Okay.. odd, but okay.. The other partial sheet is 23/32... That's what I was expecting. Don't you mean 15/32? 23/32 would be for 3/4? +--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+ The absence of accidents does not mean the presence of safety Army General Richard Cody +--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+ |
#14
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Having experienced your exact problem, and not possessing the "plywood" sized
router bits, I've been very happy with the router jig http://www.rockler.com/ecom7/product...rings_id=10482 - manufactured by Accurate Woodworking Tools http://www.accuratewoodtools.com/. It automatically sizes the dados to the exact thickness of the plywood (or other stock) that you have, using a standard 1/4" or 1/2" router bit. No connection to either company, just a satisfied woodworker. -- JeffB remove no.spam. to email |
#15
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"JeffB" wrote in message
... Having experienced your exact problem, and not possessing the "plywood" sized router bits, I've been very happy with the router jig http://www.rockler.com/ecom7/product...rings_id=10482 - manufactured by Accurate Woodworking Tools http://www.accuratewoodtools.com/. It automatically sizes the dados to the exact thickness of the plywood (or other stock) that you have, using a standard 1/4" or 1/2" router bit. No connection to either company, just a satisfied woodworker. -- JeffB remove no.spam. to email Well, that's all well and good, if all of your pieces are the same size (but just not all 1/2" or 15/32" or whatever). When you're making a cabinet, it's really tedious if all your dadoes have to be sized individually. DAMHIKT. todd |
#16
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If you've got different thicknesses of stock - ply or otherwise - the only way
to make good fitting dados is to cut them (or shim them to) slightly different widths. Even if you have different thicknesses of ply, this little jig will allow you to cut snug dados - of varying sizes, if necessary - very quickly. Try doing that with a dado stack or special sized router bit... I know it would be easier if ply was of consistent thickness, but sometimes it just isn't. There can be thickness variations within a single sheet! -- JeffB remove no.spam. to email |
#17
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Ed:
Thanks for the Plywood industry info. I had always assumed the plywood thickness problem was caused by that North American Treaty thing (NAFTA ??) and the high volume of Plywood being imported from Canada. (Canada being on metric standard, and exporting to Asian countries also.) Being a low volume plywood buyer, I just noticed the problem back in the 90's when NAFTA was passed and put two and two together and I guess I got 6. I was wrong. Sorry Canadians, I guess it is not your fault after all. Phil |
#18
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On Sun, 24 Apr 2005 23:44:53 GMT, "John Moorhead"
wrote: Okay, WTF? I have 1/2" plywood. One sheet is 1/2" right on the money. Okay.. odd, but okay.. The other partial sheet is 23/32... That's what I was expecting. The third partial is just *under* 7/16, and the last sheet is something that is none of the above, although it *IS* exactly 9mm. 'Scuse me, but how the FAQ is this? I don't want to cut multiple width dadoes - that's a recipie for disaster. Am I now to expect that 1/2 ply, er, 23/32 can't be relied upon, and I should expect something between 3/8" and a full 1/2"? This is NUTS. Especially at close to 50 bucks a sheet. How does your scrap bin measure up? This really is a ****er.... I feel your pain... How about putting a rabbet on the edge of the ply to get it to a consistant thickness as a technique? Not only makes takes the guesswork out of the dado width, but the shoulders cover up any little nicks the router might happen to make if you get a little shaky at the wrong moment. John Moorhead Aut inveniam viam aut faciam |
#19
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Another Phil wrote:
Ed: Thanks for the Plywood industry info. I had always assumed the plywood thickness problem was caused by that North American Treaty thing (NAFTA ??) and the high volume of Plywood being imported from Canada. (Canada being on metric standard, and exporting to Asian countries also.) Being a low volume plywood buyer, I just noticed the problem back in the 90's when NAFTA was passed and put two and two together and I guess I got 6. I was wrong. Sorry Canadians, I guess it is not your fault after all. Phil Phil: I will file your note along with the recent letter from Newt Gingrich. :-) -- Will Occasional Techno-geek |
#20
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I also feel your pain. I bought a set of "plywood" bits. Tried the "1/4""
on a scrap. Worked great. On my latest project--I was furious. I assumed the plywood would fit nice and tight. But no, no, no, loose as hell. Just make a fricken standard. How hard is that. David "John Moorhead" wrote in message ... Folks - Okay, Sunday afternoon.... Just finished a glue up, and don't really want to start a finishing project... So, how about a "shop job"? Sure, he thinks - How about building that set of drawers for the bench? Maybe get the crap off of the bench and into some drawers? Maybe? Got enough poplar and pine on hand? Yep, good! Got 1/2" plywood for the gallery? Yep, good! Not so fast, bubba.... Okay, I have several sheets of 1/2" ply... I take a look see, and remember that I got a set of plywood thickness bits from Grizzly as a Christmas gift.... Good chance to try 'em out making dadoes for the ply. HA! Okay, WTF? I have 1/2" plywood. One sheet is 1/2" right on the money. Okay.. odd, but okay.. The other partial sheet is 23/32... That's what I was expecting. The third partial is just *under* 7/16, and the last sheet is something that is none of the above, although it *IS* exactly 9mm. 'Scuse me, but how the FAQ is this? I don't want to cut multiple width dadoes - that's a recipie for disaster. Am I now to expect that 1/2 ply, er, 23/32 can't be relied upon, and I should expect something between 3/8" and a full 1/2"? This is NUTS. Especially at close to 50 bucks a sheet. How does your scrap bin measure up? This really is a ****er.... John Moorhead |
#21
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"John Moorhead" wrote in message
'Scuse me, but how the FAQ is this? I don't want to cut multiple width dadoes - that's a recipie for disaster. For the past few years I've found it necessary to make two trips to the lumber yard when I buy multiple sheets for a large project. A digital caliper goes along on the first trip when I pick out the grade, grain, etc, and even note which stack the plywood I want is in. Back at the shop I cut a dado in sample FF material based on the caliper measurement (being sure to make project notes on the number, size, and position of the cutters and spacers in the dado stack). Then it's back to the lumber yard, using that sample dado, to check the fit, and select _each_ individual sheet of plywood. The piece of dadoed FF stays on the dashboard of my truck until the project is finished. A necessary PITA these days if you work to any kind of tolerances where multiple units must have the same measurement, and things like drawer slides must fit drawers made long before a cabinet is put together. -- www.e-woodshop.net Last update: 4/17/05 |
#22
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"Swingman" wrote in message
A necessary PITA these days if you work to any kind of tolerances where multiple units must have the same measurement, and things like drawer slides must fit drawers made long before a cabinet is put together. This is your business right? Isn't there any way you can negotiate slightly purchases of plywood that all conform to the same thickness? What a royal pain in the butt. |
#23
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"Upscale" wrote in message
"Swingman"wrote in message A necessary PITA these days if you work to any kind of tolerances where multiple units must have the same measurement, and things like drawer slides must fit drawers made long before a cabinet is put together. This is your business right? Isn't there any way you can negotiate slightly purchases of plywood that all conform to the same thickness? What a royal pain in the butt. No one in the building industry, at least in this area, will guarantee anything regarding material dimensions these days, and if they did, it has been my experience that you would do well to verify it yourself in any event. Since I am one of those who does FF's first on cabinets, it saves time, not to mention peace of mind, in the long run to insure that I don't have to re-cut dadoes in FF's. I do a good deal of pre-planning, and since I order on a purchase order before delivery, I generally make two trips in any event. The first to check color, grade, grain, price, etc, the second to take delivery. In between is when I take the extra step to cut a dado as a "thickness guide" for individual sheets when I pick up the order. -- www.e-woodshop.net Last update: 4/17/05 |
#24
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"Swingman" wrote in message ... "Upscale" wrote in message "Swingman"wrote in message A necessary PITA these days if you work to any kind of tolerances where multiple units must have the same measurement, and things like drawer slides must fit drawers made long before a cabinet is put together. This is your business right? Isn't there any way you can negotiate slightly purchases of plywood that all conform to the same thickness? What a royal pain in the butt. No one in the building industry, at least in this area, will guarantee anything regarding material dimensions these days, and if they did, it has been my experience that you would do well to verify it yourself in any event. Since I am one of those who does FF's first on cabinets, it saves time, not to mention peace of mind, in the long run to insure that I don't have to re-cut dadoes in FF's. I do a good deal of pre-planning, and since I order on a purchase order before delivery, I generally make two trips in any event. The first to check color, grade, grain, price, etc, the second to take delivery. In between is when I take the extra step to cut a dado as a "thickness guide" for individual sheets when I pick up the order. Your dado thickness guide is a keeper. I like that. Thank you sir. I do some metal work. Mostly fabrications out of squate tubing. Although there is far less size discrepancies in metal than wood, it is an increasing problem there too. Particularly in the corner shape. Which changes the time and skill required to do the fabrication. Like you, I bring samples to the yard to check them against what they give me. And I submit samples each time I order. Even then, they screw up the order now and then. So I have already been doing this. I just did not think to apply it to wood. smacks forehead |
#25
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John Moorhead wrote:
Am I now to expect that 1/2 ply, er, 23/32 can't be relied upon, and I should expect something between 3/8" and a full 1/2"? This is NUTS. Especially at close to 50 bucks a sheet. Welcome to the wonderful world of imports. -- dadiOH ____________________________ dadiOH's dandies v3.06... ....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that. Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico |
#26
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"John Moorhead" wrote in message ... Am I now to expect that 1/2 ply, er, 23/32 can't be relied upon, and I should expect something between 3/8" and a full 1/2"? This is NUTS. 23/32nds? You mean 15/32nds, right? Anyway - it is nuts... |
#27
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dadiOH wrote:
John Moorhead wrote: Am I now to expect that 1/2 ply, er, 23/32 can't be relied upon, and I should expect something between 3/8" and a full 1/2"? This is NUTS. Especially at close to 50 bucks a sheet. Welcome to the wonderful world of imports. .... Nothing restricted to imports, either... |
#28
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dadiOH says...
John Moorhead wrote: Am I now to expect that 1/2 ply, er, 23/32 can't be relied upon, and I should expect something between 3/8" and a full 1/2"? This is NUTS. Especially at close to 50 bucks a sheet. Welcome to the wonderful world of imports. I'm wondering if you get more consistency with Appleply or real Baltic birch. You know, the expensive stuff. I'm not surprised it would be a problem with home center quality materials. But in their defense, these materials are intended for construction, not precision woodworking. |
#29
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On Sun, 24 Apr 2005 23:44:53 GMT, "John Moorhead"
wrote: Folks - Okay, Sunday afternoon.... Just finished a glue up, and don't really want to start a finishing project... So, how about a "shop job"? Sure, he thinks - How about building that set of drawers for the bench? Maybe get the crap off of the bench and into some drawers? Maybe? Got enough poplar and pine on hand? Yep, good! Got 1/2" plywood for the gallery? Yep, good! Not so fast, bubba.... Okay, I have several sheets of 1/2" ply... I take a look see, and remember that I got a set of plywood thickness bits from Grizzly as a Christmas gift.... Good chance to try 'em out making dadoes for the ply. HA! Okay, WTF? I have 1/2" plywood. One sheet is 1/2" right on the money. Okay.. odd, but okay.. The other partial sheet is 23/32... That's what I was expecting. The third partial is just *under* 7/16, and the last sheet is something that is none of the above, although it *IS* exactly 9mm. 'Scuse me, but how the FAQ is this? I don't want to cut multiple width dadoes - that's a recipie for disaster. Am I now to expect that 1/2 ply, er, 23/32 can't be relied upon, and I should expect something between 3/8" and a full 1/2"? This is NUTS. Especially at close to 50 bucks a sheet. How does your scrap bin measure up? This really is a ****er.... John Moorhead I figure that the 23/32 was actually 23/64. Excepting that, my experience is pretty much the same as yours. Even buying from the same supplier, who is using the same manufacturer, and where the pieces are coming from the same unit - doesn't get you all the way home. The usual solution is to not use a full dado but to create a dado/groove of 1/4" or 5/16" in width and then machine a tongue that is sized to fit that width. This goes pretty quick with a good dado blade. Tom Watson - WoodDorker tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet (email) http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1/ (website) |
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On Mon, 25 Apr 2005 18:53:42 -0400, Tom Watson
wrote: On Sun, 24 Apr 2005 23:44:53 GMT, "John Moorhead" wrote: Folks - Okay, Sunday afternoon.... Just finished a glue up, and don't really want to start a finishing project... So, how about a "shop job"? Sure, he thinks - How about building that set of drawers for the bench? Maybe get the crap off of the bench and into some drawers? Maybe? Got enough poplar and pine on hand? Yep, good! Got 1/2" plywood for the gallery? Yep, good! Not so fast, bubba.... Okay, I have several sheets of 1/2" ply... I take a look see, and remember that I got a set of plywood thickness bits from Grizzly as a Christmas gift.... Good chance to try 'em out making dadoes for the ply. HA! Okay, WTF? I have 1/2" plywood. One sheet is 1/2" right on the money. Okay.. odd, but okay.. The other partial sheet is 23/32... That's what I was expecting. The third partial is just *under* 7/16, and the last sheet is something that is none of the above, although it *IS* exactly 9mm. 'Scuse me, but how the FAQ is this? I don't want to cut multiple width dadoes - that's a recipie for disaster. Am I now to expect that 1/2 ply, er, 23/32 can't be relied upon, and I should expect something between 3/8" and a full 1/2"? This is NUTS. Especially at close to 50 bucks a sheet. How does your scrap bin measure up? This really is a ****er.... John Moorhead I figure that the 23/32 was actually 23/64. Excepting that, my experience is pretty much the same as yours. Even buying from the same supplier, who is using the same manufacturer, and where the pieces are coming from the same unit - doesn't get you all the way home. The usual solution is to not use a full dado but to create a dado/groove of 1/4" or 5/16" in width and then machine a tongue that is sized to fit that width. This goes pretty quick with a good dado blade. BTW - The obvious question, which I neglected to address is: "Do I then have to make a bunch of different setups to get the 1/4" tongue, given that the material is all kinda different thicknesses?' Nope. You machine the tongues with the alleged half inch material on the vertical and the dado blade set with the lead cutter 1/4 (31/64") away from the fence. It goes quickly. Use a featherboard and a tall fence. Tom Watson - WoodDorker tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet (email) http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1/ (website) |
#31
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"Hax Planx" wrote in message
.net... dadiOH says... John Moorhead wrote: Am I now to expect that 1/2 ply, er, 23/32 can't be relied upon, and I should expect something between 3/8" and a full 1/2"? This is NUTS. Especially at close to 50 bucks a sheet. Welcome to the wonderful world of imports. I'm wondering if you get more consistency with Appleply or real Baltic birch. You know, the expensive stuff. I'm not surprised it would be a problem with home center quality materials. But in their defense, these materials are intended for construction, not precision woodworking. First, it's my supposition that the BB has a tighter tolerance. As for the rest of your comment, I believe most of us are talking about hardwood ply from our local hardwood supplier. At least I was in my case. todd |
#32
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Use the Dadowiz to cut every dado to exactly the width of the board that is
going into THAT dado. Extremely easy to use. http://www.woodline.com/scripts/prod...?idproduct=688 Bob "John Moorhead" wrote in message ... Folks - Okay, Sunday afternoon.... Just finished a glue up, and don't really want to start a finishing project... So, how about a "shop job"? Sure, he thinks - How about building that set of drawers for the bench? Maybe get the crap off of the bench and into some drawers? Maybe? Got enough poplar and pine on hand? Yep, good! Got 1/2" plywood for the gallery? Yep, good! Not so fast, bubba.... Okay, I have several sheets of 1/2" ply... I take a look see, and remember that I got a set of plywood thickness bits from Grizzly as a Christmas gift.... Good chance to try 'em out making dadoes for the ply. HA! Okay, WTF? I have 1/2" plywood. One sheet is 1/2" right on the money. Okay.. odd, but okay.. The other partial sheet is 23/32... That's what I was expecting. The third partial is just *under* 7/16, and the last sheet is something that is none of the above, although it *IS* exactly 9mm. 'Scuse me, but how the FAQ is this? I don't want to cut multiple width dadoes - that's a recipie for disaster. Am I now to expect that 1/2 ply, er, 23/32 can't be relied upon, and I should expect something between 3/8" and a full 1/2"? This is NUTS. Especially at close to 50 bucks a sheet. How does your scrap bin measure up? This really is a ****er.... John Moorhead |
#33
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If you ask nicely, I would bet Leon will send you plans for his jig. Fast,
easy setup, and accommodates various sizes easily. Pat Warner does the same thing with two pieces of wood and a couple of clamps. "JeffB" wrote in message ... Having experienced your exact problem, and not possessing the "plywood" sized router bits, I've been very happy with the router jig http://www.rockler.com/ecom7/product...rings_id=10482 - manufactured by Accurate Woodworking Tools http://www.accuratewoodtools.com/. It automatically sizes the dados to the exact thickness of the plywood (or other stock) that you have, using a standard 1/4" or 1/2" router bit. No connection to either company, just a satisfied woodworker. -- JeffB remove no.spam. to email |
#34
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On Tue, 26 Apr 2005 02:09:12 GMT, Larry Kraus
wrote: It goes even more quickly with a radial arm saw. Laying the material flat on the table top is much more stable than sliding it vertically along a tall fence. Wouldn't tolerate one taking up shop space. Never saw one that could maintain even depth over a twenty four inch dado. Tom Watson - WoodDorker tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet (email) http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1/ (website) |
#35
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On Mon, 25 Apr 2005 09:57:55 -0400, "Lee Michaels"
wrote: Your dado thickness guide is a keeper. I like that. Thank you sir. I do some metal work. Mostly fabrications out of squate tubing. Although there is far less size discrepancies in metal than wood, it is an increasing problem there too. Particularly in the corner shape. Which changes the time and skill required to do the fabrication. You're not kidding there- we've got three or four steel suppliers at work, and every single one of them has a different corner shape. Doesn't matter all that much to the operations I'm performing, but it sure does **** off the plasma cutter operators and the welders. Like you, I bring samples to the yard to check them against what they give me. And I submit samples each time I order. Even then, they screw up the order now and then. So I have already been doing this. I just did not think to apply it to wood. smacks forehead Aut inveniam viam aut faciam |
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bob wrote:
Use the Dadowiz to cut every dado to exactly the width of the board that is going into THAT dado. Extremely easy to use. http://www.woodline.com/scripts/prod...?idproduct=688 $159??? G You can make a simple pantograph jig in 10 minutes that do just as well It takes the dado width measurement right from the material, just like the $159 + shipping version. Barry |
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"Tom Watson" wrote in message ... On Tue, 26 Apr 2005 02:09:12 GMT, Larry Kraus wrote: It goes even more quickly with a radial arm saw. Laying the material flat on the table top is much more stable than sliding it vertically along a tall fence. Wouldn't tolerate one taking up shop space. Never saw one that could maintain even depth over a twenty four inch dado. LOL I like radial arm saws, but I know EXACTLY of what you speak. I have a friend who tried to cut a very hard peice of aluminium on his radial arm saw. It caused the arm to bend upward. If you tried to cut a 3/8' dado on a 9' board, the dado would start at 3/8' and end almost at the surface. So what this guy did was to cut the dado from both directions. Then cut down the sides with a hand saw. Then chisel out the rest. Not exactly fine woodworking. |
#38
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Lee Michaels wrote:
"Tom Watson" wrote in message ... On Tue, 26 Apr 2005 02:09:12 GMT, Larry Kraus wrote: It goes even more quickly with a radial arm saw. Laying the material flat on the table top is much more stable than sliding it vertically along a tall fence. Wouldn't tolerate one taking up shop space. Never saw one that could maintain even depth over a twenty four inch dado. LOL I like radial arm saws, but I know EXACTLY of what you speak. I have a friend who tried to cut a very hard peice of aluminium on his radial arm saw. It caused the arm to bend upward. If you tried to cut a 3/8' dado on a 9' board, the dado would start at 3/8' and end almost at the surface. So what this guy did was to cut the dado from both directions. Then cut down the sides with a hand saw. Then chisel out the rest. Not exactly fine woodworking. What are you people _doing_ to those poor saws? It sounds to me like you're trying to force the work. Let the saw do the work, feed it as fast as it cuts. If it flexes 3/8 inch while cutting a dado then you need to _fix_ it because it's _busted_. -- --John to email, dial "usenet" and validate (was jclarke at eye bee em dot net) |
#39
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"J. Clarke" wrote:
.... ...If it flexes 3/8 inch while cutting a dado then you need to _fix_ it because it's _busted_. ... It's probably using that dado set after trying to cut aircraft Al w/ it... I agree...unless the RAS in question is a real POS, it should be quite possible to do as accurate work as necessary... |
#40
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On Tue, 26 Apr 2005 14:58:31 -0400, "J. Clarke"
wrote: Lee Michaels wrote: "Tom Watson" wrote in message ... On Tue, 26 Apr 2005 02:09:12 GMT, Larry Kraus wrote: It goes even more quickly with a radial arm saw. Laying the material flat on the table top is much more stable than sliding it vertically along a tall fence. Wouldn't tolerate one taking up shop space. Never saw one that could maintain even depth over a twenty four inch dado. LOL I like radial arm saws, but I know EXACTLY of what you speak. I have a friend who tried to cut a very hard peice of aluminium on his radial arm saw. It caused the arm to bend upward. If you tried to cut a 3/8' dado on a 9' board, the dado would start at 3/8' and end almost at the surface. So what this guy did was to cut the dado from both directions. Then cut down the sides with a hand saw. Then chisel out the rest. Not exactly fine woodworking. What are you people _doing_ to those poor saws? It sounds to me like you're trying to force the work. Let the saw do the work, feed it as fast as it cuts. If it flexes 3/8 inch while cutting a dado then you need to _fix_ it because it's _busted_. I've owned three radicalalarm saws, the most recent being an Italian made Dewalt that was intended for cabinet shop use (It was green-looked kinda funny in a Delta grey shopppe). The deal on the most recent one was that it would crosscut to 25", thus making it useful in a casegoods shop, where tops have to be cut. That sumbitch wouldn't hold a dado to depth, neither. The geometry of the damned saw is all wrong for doing things that involve maintaining a given depth over the run of the arm. It would only crosscut to within about a thirty-second, which I did not feel was good enough. I've owned them, I've used them, I've treated them nice - they still suck. The geometry is all wrong. A buddy of mine has one of the old lumberyard style Dewalts, bulky as Bubba amd heavier than iron mound dirt, and he set it on ninety and tack welded it, It still only cuts to within a thirty-second. To me they are the Swiss Army Knife of fixed equipment - and suffer the same problems. Tom Watson - WoodDorker tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet (email) http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1/ (website) |
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