Hi Bart

Bart Can you explain that in a different way, do you gave to tap thread?
, or what, I'm sure You know what the heel of the neck is , but I don't G
If you have to cut tread, you need a 13/64" drill to tap 1/4" with 20
threads per inch, if you want to have the bold slide in 17/64 would do
or else a 6.5 mm if you happen to have metric bits

Have fun and take care
Leo Van Der Loo

Bart V wrote:

I need to drill a couple of holes to screw a 1/4" hanger bolt into the
heel of the neck (jatoba) so I can bolt it onto the pot/rim (also
jatoba) I turned on the lathe. I'm wondering what size drill bit to
use, something around 7/16" fit the bill, or that too big? I'm only
getting one shot at it else the neck for the banjo I'm making is toast
and I don't wanna screw it up at the last minute...
Also wondering if, before screwing in the hanger bolt, soaking the
drilled holes with oil would make the wood stronger?
Graciously looking forward to a hint or two,
Bart.
-
Check my most up to date email address at:
www.haruteq.com/contact.htm
banjo bridges, tabs, stained glass:
www.haruteq.com

**may your moments of need be met by moments of compassion**

Hi Bart,

You could take a piece of scrap wood and drill a 9/32" hole and test the
bolt in the hole. Alternatively you could use a 5/16" drill and this would
be more that sufficient. Do this also in a piece of scrap wood before
drilling into your wood turning. If you are sure that your hanger bolt is a
true 1/4" you could get clearance with a 17/64" drill if you have one. Use a
twist drill and that will give you a clean hole. Be fore you start the drill
also use a centre punch and a start point for the drill.
Good luck.
John

"Bart V" wrote in message
...
I need to drill a couple of holes to screw a 1/4" hanger bolt into the
heel of the neck (jatoba) so I can bolt it onto the pot/rim (also
jatoba) I turned on the lathe. I'm wondering what size drill bit to
use, something around 7/16" fit the bill, or that too big? I'm only
getting one shot at it else the neck for the banjo I'm making is toast
and I don't wanna screw it up at the last minute...
Also wondering if, before screwing in the hanger bolt, soaking the
drilled holes with oil would make the wood stronger?
Graciously looking forward to a hint or two,
Bart.
-
Check my most up to date email address at:
www.haruteq.com/contact.htm
banjo bridges, tabs, stained glass:
www.haruteq.com

**may your moments of need be met by moments of compassion**

You could take a piece of scrap wood and drill a 9/32" hole and test the
bolt in the hole. Alternatively you could use a 5/16" drill and this would
be more that sufficient

I didn't know what a hanger bolt was until I saw one either Ok,
it's a two-sided fastener - one side is a regular woodscrew, the other
side is a bolt.
The end I'm talking about is the woodscrew part, it's 1/4" alright so
I need to drill a hole that is smaller than 1/4" else the screw
threads cannot bite into the wood as I'm screwing it in. So I guess my
question is, how much smaller? My concern of course, too small and the
wood of the neck will split, or too big and the screw won't hold. Oh
and to be sure, the [banjo] strings will put a ridiculous amount of
tension this connection/joint that's why I was wondering about the
soaking in oil thing.
On a personal note, being able to someday make my own banjo is what I
got my lathe for in the first place. Well, that and also to get rid of
the pile of wood in the basement I'd been stashing cause them pieces
were just too pretty for the fireplace. It's really unbelievable the
kinda stuff you can score at a pallet factory's "free firewood"
dumpster... My wife is happy that the wood stash in the basement is
getting smaller although the mantle is starting to buckle trying to
support all them purdy new round thingies
Bart.
P.S. Leo, zou graag eens met je babbelen
-
Check my most up to date email address at:
www.haruteq.com/contact.htm
banjo bridges, tabs, stained glass:
www.haruteq.com

**may your moments of need be met by moments of compassion**

OK Bart, I have some of those, never heard them called hanger bolds
though, come to think of it, we call them WC bout G

If I would have to do this, I would get my dial calipers out, measure
the outside thread dimension and shaft size, then take a scrap piece and
drill a hole that would give me approx., 75% thread depth so lets say
the shaft is 6 mm and the outside thread dim. is 10 mm then your
difference is 4 mm, then you want 3 mm thread depth, and you drill your
hole 7 mm, now screw in your bold, you can saw the thread of your bold
so that it will cut tread, that helps, and you could also put some wax
on your bold, that helps also, if your wood splits you will have to go
bigger with your drill size, 75% thread depth is typical for tapped bolt
thread, I don't know if 75% is realistic for a wood screw, that does not
tap its thread but forces the wood open, I think that your best bet is
to saw the thread on your bold deep enough, like a tread tap, and clamp
the wood to prevent it from splitting, turn the bold in and out clean
and wax, and turn back in, by then I think you will feel how tight the
bold is, make sure you try on a scrap piece that is if not the same at
least as hard and solid as the wood your going to use for real, the best
I can do for you, good luck.
Ik woon in london je can me bellen of e mail me, ok?

Have fun and take care
Leo Van Der Loo


Bart V wrote:

You could take a piece of scrap wood and drill a 9/32" hole and test the
bolt in the hole. Alternatively you could use a 5/16" drill and this would
be more that sufficient


I didn't know what a hanger bolt was until I saw one either Ok,
it's a two-sided fastener - one side is a regular woodscrew, the other
side is a bolt.
The end I'm talking about is the woodscrew part, it's 1/4" alright so
I need to drill a hole that is smaller than 1/4" else the screw
threads cannot bite into the wood as I'm screwing it in. So I guess my
question is, how much smaller? My concern of course, too small and the
wood of the neck will split, or too big and the screw won't hold. Oh
and to be sure, the [banjo] strings will put a ridiculous amount of
tension this connection/joint that's why I was wondering about the
soaking in oil thing.
On a personal note, being able to someday make my own banjo is what I
got my lathe for in the first place. Well, that and also to get rid of
the pile of wood in the basement I'd been stashing cause them pieces
were just too pretty for the fireplace. It's really unbelievable the
kinda stuff you can score at a pallet factory's "free firewood"
dumpster... My wife is happy that the wood stash in the basement is
getting smaller although the mantle is starting to buckle trying to
support all them purdy new round thingies
Bart.
P.S. Leo, zou graag eens met je babbelen
-
Check my most up to date email address at:
www.haruteq.com/contact.htm
banjo bridges, tabs, stained glass:
www.haruteq.com

**may your moments of need be met by moments of compassion**

Hi Bart,

Are hanger bolts the accepted hardware for what you are making? I think
of them as rough & imprecise fasteners more useful for furniture etc.
Usually the threads are rolled and the double depths imprecise. They
crush the wood rather than cut it.

On Leo's coffee table there is a book that lists drill sizes for
specific sizes of bolts, but they refer to metal work. If hanger bolts
are what you want, then I think the hole should be the size of the
bolt's core and you would best strengthen the wood with dab of ca glue
instead of oil. You might want to lube the bolt's threads with soap.
(Use Ivory, it's 99.9% pure, while nobody but Leif knows what's in LDD
or how it works and he won't tell. 'G')

I am so banjo illiterate (wotttenhell is a pot/rim?) that I don't even
know if you want to fasten wood to metal or to wood, but either way I
wonder if there aren't better methods than hanger bolts?


Turn to Safety, Arch
Fortiter



http://community.webtv.net/almcc/MacsMusings

Bart V wrote in message ...
I need to drill a couple of holes to screw a 1/4" hanger bolt into the
heel of the neck (jatoba) so I can bolt it onto the pot/rim (also
jatoba) I turned on the lathe. I'm wondering what size drill bit to
use, something around 7/16" fit the bill, or that too big? I'm only
getting one shot at it else the neck for the banjo I'm making is toast
and I don't wanna screw it up at the last minute...
Also wondering if, before screwing in the hanger bolt, soaking the
drilled holes with oil would make the wood stronger?
Graciously looking forward to a hint or two,
Bart.

clearance(?) hole for a wood screw should be the same as the
root diameterbetween the threads of the screw

I doubt any kind of surface treatment coul make the wood
appreciably stronger

HTH
Dale


-
Check my most up to date email address at:
www.haruteq.com/contact.htm
banjo bridges, tabs, stained glass:
www.haruteq.com

**may your moments of need be met by moments of compassion**

Normally the threads are cut from the size stock indicated, so they should
be a bit higher than 1/4" on the wood screw side, almost 1/4 on the machine
screw side. With a full set of bits, you should be able to go 1/16 less and
have plenty of hold. I like to sight the shank of the drill versus the body
of the bolt for appropriateness.

Don't use soap to lube screws, it's deliquescent, and will promote
corrosion. Traditional is wax. Beeswax or paraffin canning wax would
work. Oil would soften the area, which is opposite of what you want.

"Bart V" wrote in message
...
I need to drill a couple of holes to screw a 1/4" hanger bolt into the
heel of the neck (jatoba) so I can bolt it onto the pot/rim (also
jatoba) I turned on the lathe. I'm wondering what size drill bit to
use, something around 7/16" fit the bill, or that too big? I'm only
getting one shot at it else the neck for the banjo I'm making is toast
and I don't wanna screw it up at the last minute...
Also wondering if, before screwing in the hanger bolt, soaking the
drilled holes with oil would make the wood stronger?
Graciously looking forward to a hint or two,

Bart, by all means use traditional wax, it's not the season for
deliquescense. Soap was a way to tease Leif, our newest COC.
Sorry......(not really)

BTW, the book on the coffee table belongs to Leo Lichtman, not the Leo
from the land of windmills, dikes and wooden shoes..... and gracious
people.

I don't know from banjos. What is a pot/rim and what are the turned
parts that you are fastening together?

I do think CA glue might strengthen the wooden threads, but I await
disagreement. This is serious business.



Turn to Safety, Arch
Fortiter



http://community.webtv.net/almcc/MacsMusings

Get the Foxfire (II, I think) book off the shelf and learn some banjo other
than a toolrest.

I am assuming (yeah, yeah) that he's using the coarse wood thread into the
end grain of the wood, the fine, and a washer/nut, through the turned rim.
With the deep threads he shouldn't need help, though it's not my banjo.

"Arch" wrote in message
...
Bart, by all means use traditional wax, it's not the season for
deliquescense. Soap was a way to tease Leif, our newest COC.
Sorry......(not really)

BTW, the book on the coffee table belongs to Leo Lichtman, not the Leo
from the land of windmills, dikes and wooden shoes..... and gracious
people.

I don't know from banjos. What is a pot/rim and what are the turned
parts that you are fastening together?

I do think CA glue might strengthen the wooden threads, but I await
disagreement. This is serious business.



Turn to Safety, Arch
Fortiter



http://community.webtv.net/almcc/MacsMusings

from the land of windmills, dikes and wooden shoes.....
It seems like such a real long time ago, sigh...

I don't know from banjos. What is a pot/rim and what are the turned
parts that you are fastening together?
The pot, or drum (the big round part of a banjo that the skin
is mounted on), is fastened to the neck with these hanger bolts. There
are other ways to fasten it but this is [traditionally] the easiest
way of doing it. Yup, I agree, it sure doesn't seem hi-tech but even
banjos $5,000 and up are built that way. Of course, they do use nicer
looking bolts than the ones from Home Depot...
This pot by the way, just looks like a hoop - 11 inch diameter, 5/8"
thick, 2 1/2" tall. I made it gluing up 3 segmented layers (2 jatoba,
1 ebony) and pretty much all the steps along the way to get me the
finished pot became possible only & totally because of the great and
generous advice dished out to this total rookie by all of you great
people on this group - take a bow folks, you've more than earned it!
Bart.
P.S. it'll be a while but I'll post pics when the whole thing is done.

-
Check my most up to date email address at:
www.haruteq.com/contact.htm
banjo bridges, tabs, stained glass:
www.haruteq.com

**may your moments of need be met by moments of compassion**

Thanks for explaining Bart, saves me hunting for my old yellowed &
frazzled copy of "Foxfire". I look forward to pictures of your banjo,
not sure I want to hear it played tho. Never thought much of that Yalie
with his banjo, Rudy Valle'e. Oftimes, rookies outperform experienced
players. That includes woodturners. Actually, making the same mistakes
for years doesn't constitute experience.

I hasten to include lots of G's, 's & TICs.


Turn to Safety, Arch
Fortiter



http://community.webtv.net/almcc/MacsMusings

Hi Arch

Wax does really help turning in screws, and soap might be slippery, I
would use that on rubber material installing, and yes Ivory snow was the
favorite in the car assembly plant, in the days wind shield and back
lites were still installed with rubber grommets.
The reason I was recommending the 75% tread depth, is that the hard
hardwood will not compact like the regular soft or hardwood, and will
need some room to expand into, question is how much, and that will be
different all the time with different wood I think, so I thought that it
would be prudent to go for a trial with a scrap piece.
Also the CA glue certainly help with soft and punky wood, but with this
very dense wood I don't think it will be much of a help.
Now about the banjo, don't know a thing about it G, good fun, nothing
serious in my opinion.

Have fun and take care
Leo Van Der Loo

Arch wrote:
Bart, by all means use traditional wax, it's not the season for
deliquescense. Soap was a way to tease Leif, our newest COC.
Sorry......(not really)

BTW, the book on the coffee table belongs to Leo Lichtman, not the Leo
from the land of windmills, dikes and wooden shoes..... and gracious
people.

I don't know from banjos. What is a pot/rim and what are the turned
parts that you are fastening together?

I do think CA glue might strengthen the wooden threads, but I await
disagreement. This is serious business.



Turn to Safety, Arch
Fortiter



http://community.webtv.net/almcc/MacsMusings

(Arch) wrote in news:14833-41AE11BF-13@storefull-
3176.bay.webtv.net:

Thanks for explaining Bart, saves me hunting for my old yellowed &
frazzled copy of "Foxfire". I look forward to pictures of your banjo,
not sure I want to hear it played tho. Never thought much of that Yalie
with his banjo, Rudy Valle'e. Oftimes, rookies outperform experienced
players. That includes woodturners. Actually, making the same mistakes
for years doesn't constitute experience.

I hasten to include lots of G's, 's & TICs.


Turn to Safety, Arch
Fortiter



http://community.webtv.net/almcc/MacsMusings


Hey Arch,
Don't quite have the same amount of experience as you do, but didn't that
Yalie (Rudy Valee) play a ukelele? Never did care for singers who sang
through their nose (or was that the quality of the records or radio).
Always remember Arch, life is just a bowl of cherries, or is it 'life is
just a cher of bowlies'?
Fond Regards,
Hank

Thanks Hank, I think you got it right. I'm wrong again. Not that I
would know a ukelele from a bass fiddle. Wonder if they employ hanger
bolts.?


Turn to Safety, Arch
Fortiter



http://community.webtv.net/almcc/MacsMusings

I drilled some practice holes in the same kind of wood and both 3/16"
and 11/64" did a fine job. Since I needed two holes about 3/4" away
from each other I decided on the 3/16" just incase the pressure would
eventually crack/split the connection - waxed them up and they screwed
in nice & tight but easy enough, it feels rock solid. Thanks for all
the tips!
I installed the fret wire late and the tuning pegs last night and now
comes the fun part of assembling the whole thing. Not too sure whether
I'm more anxious to find out what it'll sound like or looking forward
to slopping the oil on the barewood to finish it... A few more thisses
and thats to do but I should be picking & grinning this afternoon ))
Thanks again,
Bart.
-
Check my most up to date email address at:
www.haruteq.com/contact.htm
banjo bridges, tabs, stained glass:
www.haruteq.com

**may your moments of need be met by moments of compassion**

Bart

Glad to hear it worked out !!

Have fun and take care
Leo Van Der Loo

Bart V wrote:
I drilled some practice holes in the same kind of wood and both 3/16"
and 11/64" did a fine job. Since I needed two holes about 3/4" away
from each other I decided on the 3/16" just incase the pressure would
eventually crack/split the connection - waxed them up and they screwed
in nice & tight but easy enough, it feels rock solid. Thanks for all
the tips!
I installed the fret wire late and the tuning pegs last night and now
comes the fun part of assembling the whole thing. Not too sure whether
I'm more anxious to find out what it'll sound like or looking forward
to slopping the oil on the barewood to finish it... A few more thisses
and thats to do but I should be picking & grinning this afternoon ))
Thanks again,
Bart.
-
Check my most up to date email address at:
www.haruteq.com/contact.htm
banjo bridges, tabs, stained glass:
www.haruteq.com

**may your moments of need be met by moments of compassion**

On Thu, 02 Dec 2004 21:11:03 -0600, "Henry St.Pierre"
wrote:

Always remember Arch, life is just a bowl of cherries, or is it 'life is
just a cher of bowlies'?

Actually, life is like a bowl of jalapenos...

What you do today might burn your ass tomorrow..