Hi all,

I have been wanting to make a few of my own lathe tools for a while.
The prices of what I see seem to be very high. At least I thought so
before I started looking for raw materials. I priced 18" pieces of 1/4
x 1 1/2 M2 and M4 tool steel for $110+ and $170+. DANG!!!

So the questions are, what do you use for raw materials (I would assume
plain carbon steel), where do you get it, and what kind of tools do you
make?

TIA,

Wayne

A good place to start would be Darrell's site at: http://www.aroundthewoods.com/
wherein you will find a plethora of toolmaking tips and lessons. From
my own limited experience, you will probably do better buying a few
quality tools on your own. If you are making bowls, a good start will
be one or two quality gouges from one of the many sites on the web.
Scrapers can be made pretty much to fit your own needs and particular
situations. You may get by with making your own parting tool but they
are not all that expensive. I wouldn't worry all that much about the
steel used as long as it is high carbon at a minimum. It does not
hold an edge as well as M2 or the new fangled powder steels but tends
to hold a finer edge for that last one or two passes over the
workpiece. Another option would be look to tool steels such as can be
found at ENCO (http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRAR?PMSECT=750) lists
some drill rod that can be cut to length, inserted into the end of a
rod of cold steel and then ground to shape.


"Heck, Tom. Sun can't shine on the same dog's ass every day."
-- Crow T. Robot, MST3K, Episode #609


On Nov 21, 2:40 pm, NoOne N Particular wrote:
Hi all,

I have been wanting to make a few of my own lathe tools for a while.
The prices of what I see seem to be very high. At least I thought so
before I started looking for raw materials. I priced 18" pieces of 1/4
x 1 1/2 M2 and M4 tool steel for $110+ and $170+. DANG!!!

So the questions are, what do you use for raw materials (I would assume
plain carbon steel), where do you get it, and what kind of tools do you
make?

TIA,

Wayne

NoOne N Particular wrote:
Hi all,

I have been wanting to make a few of my own lathe tools for a while.
The prices of what I see seem to be very high. At least I thought so
before I started looking for raw materials. I priced 18" pieces of 1/4
x 1 1/2 M2 and M4 tool steel for $110+ and $170+. DANG!!!

So the questions are, what do you use for raw materials (I would assume
plain carbon steel), where do you get it, and what kind of tools do you
make?

TIA,

Wayne
A cheap source of steel is shock absorber rods. It is very hard stuff.
You have to cut it with a right angle grinder. I found some from 3/8
to 5/8 diameter and made several tools. For a bowl gouge I ground a
flat on one side then ground a groove down the center of the flat. To
make the flute I used a carbide burr of the appropriate size in a
drill. It is hard work but I used them for a long time. However, I now
just buy one. I still use a couple of bedan tools I made.
--
Gerald Ross
Cochran, GA

Those are my principles. If you don't
like them I have others. (Groucho Marx)

Learn blacksmithing. Many woodworkers have gotten into blacksmithing
for just this reason. Warning: It, too can become habit forming.

But if you want to make tools just to save money, don't. Just buy them.
Maybe cheaper turning tools are better to start with since you Will
have to learn how to sharpen them since they'll probably dull more rapidly.
Or get the A2 or W1 that Enco and MSC sell as another poster
suggested. But, be warned that those steel come to you annealed and
will have to be hardened properly and (for the W1)tempered properly to
be of much use to you.

Pete Stanaitis
----------------------

NoOne N Particular wrote:
Hi all,

I have been wanting to make a few of my own lathe tools for a while. The
prices of what I see seem to be very high. At least I thought so before
I started looking for raw materials. I priced 18" pieces of 1/4 x 1 1/2
M2 and M4 tool steel for $110+ and $170+. DANG!!!

So the questions are, what do you use for raw materials (I would assume
plain carbon steel), where do you get it, and what kind of tools do you
make?

TIA,

Wayne

On Nov 21, 2:40 pm, NoOne N Particular wrote:
Hi all,
Hi Wayne
Yes you can make some of your own tools, I have made some, but if you
want HSS gouges you will have to buy them really.
Yes Darrell Feltmate's site aroundthewoods.com is a site you should
visit for all kinds of reasons and not just tool making, I recommend
that site highly.
But I have a link here to a place that I have gotten 3 sets of tools
from, 2 for myself and one for my son, these are HSS tools and pretty
good quality to, and at the cost of one name-brand gouge, just have a
look.
http://busybeetools.ca/cgi-bin/produ...g%20tool%20set
Have fun and take care
Leo Van Der Loo
http://homepage.mac.com/l.vanderloo/PhotoAlbum4.html

I have been wanting to make a few of my own lathe tools for a while.
The prices of what I see seem to be very high. At least I thought so
before I started looking for raw materials. I priced 18" pieces of 1/4
x 1 1/2 M2 and M4 tool steel for $110+ and $170+. DANG!!!

So the questions are, what do you use for raw materials (I would assume
plain carbon steel), where do you get it, and what kind of tools do you
make?

TIA,

Wayne

thanks for the kind words about my site, guys. Wayne, I make tools for the
satisfaction of making tools and to have a fairly extensive arsenal of
tooling. In particular, I find it a real price saver to make hollowing tools
since I can make one for about $5 when it would cost me $75 to buy it, and
the making is easy. A lot of the manufacturer's cost is making it fancy and
paying wages and machine time. You know what wood turner's wages are like
:-) so there can be a huge savings. Also I prefer an Oland tool to a bowl
gouge and it is simply an easy tool to make. That all said, I still
recommend buying an inexpensive, HSS, beginner's set when starting to turn,
and learning to use and sharpen the tools. With head ducked from the
flaming, I have not experienced enough difference in the effectiveness of
the more expensive tools to justify the price difference. After all that,
take a look at http://www.aroundthewoods.com/contents.html#con07 for some
tool ideas. Making them is just plain fun.

--
God bless and safe turning
Darrell Feltmate
Truro, NS Canada
http://aroundthewoods.com
http://roundopinions.blogspot.com
"NoOne N Particular" wrote in message
. ..
Hi all,

I have been wanting to make a few of my own lathe tools for a while. The
prices of what I see seem to be very high. At least I thought so before I
started looking for raw materials. I priced 18" pieces of 1/4 x 1 1/2 M2
and M4 tool steel for $110+ and $170+. DANG!!!

So the questions are, what do you use for raw materials (I would assume
plain carbon steel), where do you get it, and what kind of tools do you
make?

TIA,

Wayne

and another easy one is a round skew. get yourself a rod,
fix it into a handle and grind it at an angle.
here's a link, courtesy of Robert Rosand:
http://www.rrosand.com/articles/19-3a.html

wrote:
On Nov 21, 2:40 pm, NoOne N Particular wrote:
Hi all,
Hi Wayne
Yes you can make some of your own tools, I have made some, but if you
want HSS gouges you will have to buy them really.
Yes Darrell Feltmate's site aroundthewoods.com is a site you should
visit for all kinds of reasons and not just tool making, I recommend
that site highly.
But I have a link here to a place that I have gotten 3 sets of tools
from, 2 for myself and one for my son, these are HSS tools and pretty
good quality to, and at the cost of one name-brand gouge, just have a
look.
http://busybeetools.ca/cgi-bin/produ...g%20tool%20set
Have fun and take care
Leo Van Der Loo
http://homepage.mac.com/l.vanderloo/PhotoAlbum4.html

Do these include any bowl gouges? Harbor Fright has a HSS set, but only
for spindle work.


--
Gerald Ross
Cochran, GA

Those are my principles. If you don't
like them I have others. (Groucho Marx)

On Wed, 21 Nov 2007 11:40:31 -0800, NoOne N Particular
wrote:

Hi all,

I have been wanting to make a few of my own lathe tools for a while.
The prices of what I see seem to be very high. At least I thought so
before I started looking for raw materials. I priced 18" pieces of 1/4
x 1 1/2 M2 and M4 tool steel for $110+ and $170+. DANG!!!

So the questions are, what do you use for raw materials (I would assume
plain carbon steel), where do you get it, and what kind of tools do you
make?

Hello Wayne,

You're opening up a big can of worms here!

First thing to note is that plain carbon steel is *not* what you are
looking for. If you want a cutting tool that will hold an edge, you
need at least a medium, and preferably a high carbon steel.

Next thing to consider is how you intend to make the tools. If you
plan on forging them, you'll need a forge and an anvil, which can be
plenty of fun, but you can get by with a good angle grinder and some
flap sander wheels. If you intend to forge fluted gouges, you'll need
a swage block, which is basically a big hunk of cast steel that has
several bowl shaped depressions on the face, and a number of
semi-circular grooves on the edges. The grooves are the important
part- you hammer the hot metal down into them.

As far as materials go, here's a short list of what you're looking
for. Steel suppliers will know what you're asking after, and will
often sell "drops" that are cut off the ends of longer bars at a
reduced price. I've found that 3' bars are nice to work with if
forging, as they are long enough to hold onto while working without
burning yourself. Tongs just aren't as easy to use as a guy could
hope, and it's always best to be able to hold the steel directly.

1045 (medium carbon steel- hardenable and tough, but not as sharp as
1095)
1095 (High carbon steel, also known as W1 tool steel)
401c Stainless (This *must* be type c- the other 401s will not
harden.)
O1 tool steel (oil quench)
A1 tool steel (air quench)
M2 tool steel (HSS- Can't be heat treated at home)
Old files are case-hardened 1045
Old springs are 1095.

1045 and 1095 are quenched in water or brine (salt water)
401c is quenched in oil (IIRC) and then put into deep freeze for a
couple of days
O1 is quenched in oil
A1 is quenched in air- it will work just sitting out, but benefits
from a steady stream of fast-moving air
M2 should be pre-hardened, and then ground to shape- or taken to a
professional heat treater. Tool bits for metal working are
pre-hardened M2,

Your aim is to get your basic shape however you can, whether that is
heating the metal up and hammering it, or grinding away everything you
don't want. When you are happy with the rough shape, normalize it a
couple of times by heating it up and allowing it to cool without
hammering it. This reduces the internal stresses, and helps prevent
the steel from cracking or warping when quenched. Then heat the metal
until it becomes non-magnetic (which is just how it sounds- pull the
metal out of the forge or oven and hold a magnet to it- if it sticks,
it's still too cold) You want to catch it as quickly as possible
after it reaches that temperature, and quench it in water or oil. A
quick and dirty test to see if you got it right is to try to file the
material- basically what this will tell you is whether or not the
steel is harder than a file- if you can't file it, it's hardened, if
you can, it isn't (or isn't hardened as much as it could be.)

At this point, your tool will be super-hard, and very brittle. It's
not very useful as is, so you need to temper it. You can do that with
an oven, but it's kind of hit-or-miss. What I've found works pretty
well is to clean the black layer off the steel, and then apply heat
with a handheld propane torch until colors begin to appear. You'll be
able to see the colors change wherever the metal is shiny, and you
want a "dull straw" color near the cutting edge. Further back, you
might want to temper even further, to allow for more toughness- With a
lathe chisel, it's a reasonable practice to heat the far end, and let
the color run up the tool until the tip turns to dull straw (the back
side will likely be blue or purple at that point, but that's what
you're going for). Once the color reaches the right level, requench
the steel, and you're ready to sharpen, polish, and cut with your new
tool.

When sharpening and polishing, make sure to cool the edge frequently
so that you don't draw the temper, or you will have to reharden all
over again.

And, even though you didn't ask it yet, if you're making a single
edged knife, try to temper the spine as much as possible, and keep the
edge as hard as you can.

As noted, tool bits are pre-hardened M2 (High speed steel) The nice
thing about them is that you don't need any fire at all, and they're
pretty cheap.

http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRHI?PMSECT=741

The tool bits tend to be too short for wood turning, so you'll need to
make a shaft to mount them into. The nice thing is that if you get
the same size tool bit every time, you'll only need one shaft.

As an example, if you were to decide to always use 5/16" tool bits
like the one in this link

http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?P...&PARTPG=INLMK3

you could just go to your local hardware store and get yourself a
piece of 3/4" mild steel bar and drill a 5/16" hole in one end. Then,
drill a tap hole through the side, tap it for a set screw, and use the
set screw to hold the bit in place (it helps to grind a little flat
spot on the tool bit where the set screw will bear on it.) If you
need some pictures of this, do a Google search for "Oland tool."

After that, you're good to go. M2 bits make really nice cutting
tools, with minimal effort- but they're not quite as impressive to
show off as a hammered gouge.

It sounds complicated, but none of it is as hard as it may appear.
Perhaps the most difficult part is just tracking down a place that
sells the steel at a reasonable price. If you're lucky, there's a
good place near you that you can buy from off the rack, but if you
have to mail order, Cincinnati Tool Steel seems to have fair prices.

On Wed, 21 Nov 2007 19:48:25 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:

On Nov 21, 2:40 pm, NoOne N Particular wrote:
Hi all,
Hi Wayne
Yes you can make some of your own tools, I have made some, but if you
want HSS gouges you will have to buy them really.

Not necessarily- but you have to be willing to modify what you mean
when you talk about a "gouge." We're all used to seeing full-flute
gouges, which is probably out of reach for a guy goofing off out in
the shed or garage- but if you're willing to have a short gouge on a
round shaft, it's entirely possible to grind the flute with a little
persistance. I've done that for a few lathe tools, and they work the
same as any other gouge.

It'd be possible to get annealed M2 and machine or forge it (I assume-
I haven't done it) and then take it to a place that does professional
heat treating. The main problem with the stuff is that the heat
treatment is rediculous from a hobbyist perspective, and would require
a really fancy oven. IIRC, it needs to be raised to a very precise
temperature, and then cooled a certain number of degrees per hour over
a period of a couple of days.

Yes Darrell Feltmate's site aroundthewoods.com is a site you should
visit for all kinds of reasons and not just tool making, I recommend
that site highly.
But I have a link here to a place that I have gotten 3 sets of tools
from, 2 for myself and one for my son, these are HSS tools and pretty
good quality to, and at the cost of one name-brand gouge, just have a
look.
http://busybeetools.ca/cgi-bin/produ...g%20tool%20set
Have fun and take care
Leo Van Der Loo
http://homepage.mac.com/l.vanderloo/PhotoAlbum4.html

I have been wanting to make a few of my own lathe tools for a while.
The prices of what I see seem to be very high. At least I thought so
before I started looking for raw materials. I priced 18" pieces of 1/4
x 1 1/2 M2 and M4 tool steel for $110+ and $170+. DANG!!!

So the questions are, what do you use for raw materials (I would assume
plain carbon steel), where do you get it, and what kind of tools do you
make?

TIA,

Wayne

On Thu, 22 Nov 2007 09:15:57 -0500, Gerald Ross wrote:

wrote:
On Nov 21, 2:40 pm, NoOne N Particular wrote:
Hi all,
Hi Wayne
Yes you can make some of your own tools, I have made some, but if you
want HSS gouges you will have to buy them really.
Yes Darrell Feltmate's site aroundthewoods.com is a site you should
visit for all kinds of reasons and not just tool making, I recommend
that site highly.
But I have a link here to a place that I have gotten 3 sets of tools
from, 2 for myself and one for my son, these are HSS tools and pretty
good quality to, and at the cost of one name-brand gouge, just have a
look.
http://busybeetools.ca/cgi-bin/produ...g%20tool%20set
Have fun and take care
Leo Van Der Loo
http://homepage.mac.com/l.vanderloo/PhotoAlbum4.html

Do these include any bowl gouges? Harbor Fright has a HSS set, but only
for spindle work.

I've got 3 of these and they just LOWERED the price on 'em..

http://www.pennstateind.com/store/lx230.html

They work well for me and hold an edge well.. and they're inexpensive enough to
have 2 or 3 sharpened and ready when you start a bowl..YMWV


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

In article ,
mac davis wrote:

....
I've got 3 of these and they just LOWERED the price on 'em..

http://www.pennstateind.com/store/lx230.html

They work well for me and hold an edge well.. and they're inexpensive enough
to
have 2 or 3 sharpened and ready when you start a bowl..YMWV


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

I have the BB set of Bowl gouges, ground into a shallow, short grind,
just for finish work. But I also use BB and the red-handle HF chisels to
play with different grinds. So much better to use up a $20 chisel on
learning what grind to use then a $100 chisel

--
--------------------------------------------------------
Personal e-mail is the n7bsn but at amsat.org
This posting address is a spam-trap and seldom read
RV and Camping FAQ can be found at
http://www.ralphandellen.us/rv

I guess I should have given more information regarding the types of
tools I would like to make. I wasn't really thinking about tools that
use round stock like gouges, etc. although the Oland tool is one that I
will proly do. I don't have the capability for milling so things like
long grooves down a piece of round bar is not an option. I do have
things like a GMAW welder (that is what they call it in school nowadays,
but it's a MIG welder), OA welder/torch, grinders, and an old SouthBend
9" metal lathe so I can do a few things. My son has a small propane
fired forge that I could use, but it is not quite in a position where I
can get to it easily. I would have to clean his garage to get to it and
that AIN'T happnin!!!

But still, I was thinking more along the lines of scrapers, captive ring
tools, beading tools, maybe a Bedan tool, etc. Things I could make
that, for the most part, only require a little cutting and grinding on
my part. Since the prices of everything is going up so fast and so
much, I was thinking that I could maybe save a few dollars. My income
situation right now is an outgo situation so every dollar counts. But
after seeing the prices of tool steel . . .SOB! Time for Plan D or E.

I think I will go to the metal recyclers in town and look for some high
carbon steel. Maybe from some shock absorbers as someone mentioned, or
maybe hydraulic rams, etc. Then if I find a tool design that I like,
maybe I can get something like some M4 tool steel and make a really good
one.

Thanks for all the suggestions and advice.

Wayne

Wayne I make as many of my tools as I can, it is the only way to keep the
cost down, I have numerous articles on my web site
http://.www.laymar-crafts.co.uk look in the Hints and Tips Section

RVS

"NoOne N Particular" wrote in message
. ..
Hi all,

I have been wanting to make a few of my own lathe tools for a while.
The prices of what I see seem to be very high. At least I thought so
before I started looking for raw materials. I priced 18" pieces of 1/4
x 1 1/2 M2 and M4 tool steel for $110+ and $170+. DANG!!!

So the questions are, what do you use for raw materials (I would assume
plain carbon steel), where do you get it, and what kind of tools do you
make?

TIA,

Wayne

Richard Stapley wrote:
Wayne I make as many of my tools as I can, it is the only way to keep the
cost down, I have numerous articles on my web site
http://.www.laymar-crafts.co.uk look in the Hints and Tips Section

RVS



WOW! Lots of good stuff there. Thanks.

Wayne

Btw, you have an extra "." in the URL.

On Thu, 22 Nov 2007 09:48:49 -0800, Ralph E Lindberg wrote:

In article ,
mac davis wrote:

...
I've got 3 of these and they just LOWERED the price on 'em..

http://www.pennstateind.com/store/lx230.html

They work well for me and hold an edge well.. and they're inexpensive enough
to
have 2 or 3 sharpened and ready when you start a bowl..YMWV


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

I have the BB set of Bowl gouges, ground into a shallow, short grind,
just for finish work. But I also use BB and the red-handle HF chisels to
play with different grinds. So much better to use up a $20 chisel on
learning what grind to use then a $100 chisel

I've been using their bowl set for a couple of years but when they lowered the
price I ordered three 5/8" bowl gouges and a 1" roughing gouge..
Besides liking to have a lineup of sharp tools so I don't make as many trips to
the grinder or have to change setups on the true grind as often, I have folks
come over to learn turning..
I used to start them out on the HF chisels but found that that learn better with
a heavier chisel... The BB have a lot more steel in them than the thinner,
lighter HF ones.. YMWV


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

Laymar website works better as:

http://www.laymar-crafts.co.uk

Old Chief Lynn

Has anyone used a spare allen opener as a captive ring tool?
Seems like you could just grind its end properly after shoving it up
some
HS or even carbon steel rod. and end up making a simple handle
from wood.

"Max63" wrote in message
...
Has anyone used a spare allen opener as a captive ring tool?
Seems like you could just grind its end properly after shoving it up
some
HS or even carbon steel rod. and end up making a simple handle
from wood.

Don't use the hollow keys and it works fine.

On Sun, 25 Nov 2007 05:33:44 -0800 (PST), Max63 wrote:

Has anyone used a spare allen opener as a captive ring tool?
Seems like you could just grind its end properly after shoving it up
some
HS or even carbon steel rod. and end up making a simple handle
from wood.
You probably could.. but then you might end up doing a stylish piercing job on
your face while you're at it..

I enjoy making some tools, but the $35 captive ring tool I bought has done a LOT
of rings and never bit me..

Also, it's double sided, which could be a fun project if you're a machinist..
YMMV
Here's an even cheaper one... check out the user's comment, too.. lol
http://www.pennstateind.com/store/lccrt.html


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

On Sun, 25 Nov 2007 05:33:44 -0800 (PST), Max63
wrote:

Has anyone used a spare allen opener as a captive ring tool?
Seems like you could just grind its end properly after shoving it up
some
HS or even carbon steel rod. and end up making a simple handle
from wood.

The beautiful thing about capitve ring tools is that they don't need
to stay sharp for very long to get the job done- though it's nice if
they do. I used a piece of hammered-flat and ground to shape
galvanized emt tubing for the first captive rings I ever turned, and
it worked fine. Not good for the long haul, but it worked ok. In a
pinch, a guy could make one that was reasonably decent from just about
anything- including that allen wrench you mentioned.

My apologies here folks, I have not had the time to put up a web page on it,
but an easy way to make a captured ring tool is to use a cheap chisel. Say
you want a 1/4" captured ring. Anneal the end of a 3/8" or 1/2" chisel.
Drill a 1/4" hole in it centered about 3/8" back from the end. Grind or cut
to the center line of the hole and rough grind the tip remembering to bring
the sides in to the circle. Temper the chisel end. Sharpen by belt sanding
flat and then use a diamond file for touch up. Personally I would replace
the handle with a wooden one but it is not really necessary for this sort of
tool.


--
God bless and safe turning
Darrell Feltmate
Truro, NS Canada
http://aroundthewoods.com
http://roundopinions.blogspot.com
"Prometheus" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 25 Nov 2007 05:33:44 -0800 (PST), Max63
wrote:

Has anyone used a spare allen opener as a captive ring tool?
Seems like you could just grind its end properly after shoving it up
some
HS or even carbon steel rod. and end up making a simple handle
from wood.

The beautiful thing about capitve ring tools is that they don't need
to stay sharp for very long to get the job done- though it's nice if
they do. I used a piece of hammered-flat and ground to shape
galvanized emt tubing for the first captive rings I ever turned, and
it worked fine. Not good for the long haul, but it worked ok. In a
pinch, a guy could make one that was reasonably decent from just about
anything- including that allen wrench you mentioned.