Depressing hypothetical questions, but we might do well to consider
them.

If a fire department inspector or insurance agent came unannounced to
your turning shop today, would it pass muster?


If your shop-home-garage sustained a fire today would an inspection give
the insurance company enough evidence to successfully deny your claim?


Turn to Safety, Arch
Fortiter


http://community.webtv.net/almcc/MacsMusings

"Arch" wrote: (clip) If your shop-home-garage sustained a fire today would
an inspection give the insurance company enough evidence to successfully
deny your claim?
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Arch, I hope this is a hypothetical question--you're not having insurance
problems, are you? I'm not a lawyer, so I will give up on any point on
which I am challenged, but this is how I think it is: When you buy
insurance, you are subject to inspection, and the insurer may require you to
fix certain things. Then they have the right to check you whenever they
feel like it while the policy is in effect, but they rarely do. If they
don't, I doubt that they can deny coverage after you have been paying your
premiums in good faith. It's different for commercial insurance, where
annual inspections are common.

You're not running a drug lab in your shop, are you? I'm sure that could
make a difference. ;-)

No inspectors or fire yet, Leo. Thanks for your opinion and your
concern. It is reassuring. I posted these hypotheticals after viewing
the realities of my shop.


Turn to Safety, Arch
Fortiter


http://community.webtv.net/almcc/MacsMusings

Speaking as a guy who unintentionally, yet carelessly, set fire to his
own shop, the question not answered he what codes, guidelines,
rules, etc. that are required by a safety inspector for a home shop?

I have three fire extinguishers. I have a smoke detector in the
garage.Most of my finishes are stored in safe locations. Volatile
stuff in a metal tool chest. I sweep infrequently. I have dry or
drying wood piled high on shelving. My electrical is to code. I use
dust collection and an air filter. What else are the do's or don'ts?

Joe

On Sep 25, 4:33 pm, (Arch) wrote:
Depressing hypothetical questions, but we might do well to consider
them.

If a fire department inspector or insurance agent came unannounced to
your turning shop today, would it pass muster?

If your shop-home-garage sustained a fire today would an inspection give
the insurance company enough evidence to successfully deny your claim?

Turn to Safety, Arch
Fortiter

http://community.webtv.net/almcc/MacsMusings

Joe Fleming wrote:
Speaking as a guy who unintentionally, yet carelessly, set fire to his
own shop, the question not answered he what codes, guidelines,
rules, etc. that are required by a safety inspector for a home shop?

I have three fire extinguishers. I have a smoke detector in the
garage.Most of my finishes are stored in safe locations. Volatile
stuff in a metal tool chest. I sweep infrequently. I have dry or
drying wood piled high on shelving. My electrical is to code. I use
dust collection and an air filter. What else are the do's or don'ts?

Joe


Did you remember to ground your DC?

(ducking!)

Bill

On Sep 25, 7:33 pm, BillinDetroit wrote:
Joe Fleming wrote:
Speaking as a guy who unintentionally, yet carelessly, set fire to his
own shop, the question not answered he what codes, guidelines,
rules, etc. that are required by a safety inspector for a home shop?

I have three fire extinguishers. I have a smoke detector in the
garage.Most of my finishes are stored in safe locations. Volatile
stuff in a metal tool chest. I sweep infrequently. I have dry or
drying wood piled high on shelving. My electrical is to code. I use
dust collection and an air filter. What else are the do's or don'ts?

Joe

Did you remember to ground your DC?

(ducking!)

Bill


Arch,

One thing that every woodturner, who ever sells any of their stuff,
needs to look into is whether their shop is actually covered by their
home owner's insurance. I checked and found that mine would not be
covered since it is a business as far as the insurance company is
concerned. Therefore, I carry insurance for my shop through the AAW
arranged insurance program.

A few years ago, a woodturner had his shop burn down and found that
his homeowner's insurance would not cover it because he sold some of
his woodturning output. It is worth checking into and the insurance
through the AAW is not too expensive and it also covers me for
demonstrations and for teaching in my shop.

I recommend that everyone who has a woodturning shop and ever sells
anything or teaches classes in their shop check with their insurance
company to see if they are covered.

Fred Holder
http://www.fholder.com/Woodturning/woodturn.htm

The first thing the insurance company will ask is do you have dust
collection. The second is do you have a smoke alarm. The third is
where is the fire extinguisher. The forth is where is the flamable
liquids cabinet. I have been turned down by several companies because
I don't have a sprinkler system. Also like Fred said, most home owners
insurance will not cover wood shops, or only minimally, especially if
you sell some stuff. You don't have to be professional, you can be a
hobbyiest who sells some things to help support your habbit. Some home
owners insurance companies will cancel you outright if they find out
you have a wood shop. The AAW insurance covers you for woodturning
only.
robo hippy


On Sep 26, 8:01 am, Fred Holder wrote:
On Sep 25, 7:33 pm, BillinDetroit wrote:



Joe Fleming wrote:
Speaking as a guy who unintentionally, yet carelessly, set fire to his
own shop, the question not answered he what codes, guidelines,
rules, etc. that are required by a safety inspector for a home shop?

I have three fire extinguishers. I have a smoke detector in the
garage.Most of my finishes are stored in safe locations. Volatile
stuff in a metal tool chest. I sweep infrequently. I have dry or
drying wood piled high on shelving. My electrical is to code. I use
dust collection and an air filter. What else are the do's or don'ts?

Joe

Did you remember to ground your DC?

(ducking!)

Bill

Arch,

One thing that every woodturner, who ever sells any of their stuff,
needs to look into is whether their shop is actually covered by their
home owner's insurance. I checked and found that mine would not be
covered since it is a business as far as the insurance company is
concerned. Therefore, I carry insurance for my shop through the AAW
arranged insurance program.

A few years ago, a woodturner had his shop burn down and found that
his homeowner's insurance would not cover it because he sold some of
his woodturning output. It is worth checking into and the insurance
through the AAW is not too expensive and it also covers me for
demonstrations and for teaching in my shop.

I recommend that everyone who has a woodturning shop and ever sells
anything or teaches classes in their shop check with their insurance
company to see if they are covered.

Fred Holder
http://www.fholder.com/Woodturning/woodturn.htm

On Tue, 25 Sep 2007 19:33:26 -0400, (Arch) wrote:

Depressing hypothetical questions, but we might do well to consider
them.

If a fire department inspector or insurance agent came unannounced to
your turning shop today, would it pass muster?


If your shop-home-garage sustained a fire today would an inspection give
the insurance company enough evidence to successfully deny your claim?


Turn to Safety, Arch
Fortiter


http://community.webtv.net/almcc/MacsMusings




My shop would fail. I have too much wood and have not (yet) contained
all my finishes and paints in a fire-proof enclosure. The fire
department suggested to keep the finishes outdoors in a (fake) dog
house with a hinged roof. But, the FD was impressed to see a fire
extinguisher and smoke detector in my shop!

"Phisherman" wrote: (clip) the FD was impressed to see a fire extinguisher
and smoke detector in my shop!
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Out of curiosity, what was the reason for the fire department inspection?
Is yours a commercial or a home shop? I'm guessing home, kuz they would
consider extinguishers and smoke alarms normal in a commercial setting.
And I can't imagine them suggesting a "dog house" for a commercial shop.

A fellow employee of mine built his own house, by converting a barracks. I
considered him a mechanical genious. An example of what he did was put an
old-fashioned grease pit in his garage, so he could walk under his car. But
the thing I really want to bring up here is: halfway up his stairs he built
in a recess, where he hung a garden hose long enough to reach either end of
his house, either upstairs or downstairs. They say that the first fraction
of a minute after a fire starts is critical. His idea probably could have
saved his house if he had needed it.

So, have I done this? No. Why not? Well, this is the first time I have
thought of it until Arch now.

Thanks, Arch. Losing one's house has to do with a lot more than just
insurance.

On Wed, 26 Sep 2007 23:35:17 GMT, "Leo Lichtman"
wrote:


"Phisherman" wrote: (clip) the FD was impressed to see a fire extinguisher
and smoke detector in my shop!
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Out of curiosity, what was the reason for the fire department inspection?

I asked the FD for an inspection.

Is yours a commercial or a home shop? I'm guessing home, kuz they would
consider extinguishers and smoke alarms normal in a commercial setting.

Home shop.

And I can't imagine them suggesting a "dog house" for a commercial shop.


They suggested keeping flammables (including gasoline) separate from
the house. A (fake) dog house does not need a permit in our town, but
a shed does.

A fellow employee of mine built his own house, by converting a barracks. I
considered him a mechanical genious. An example of what he did was put an
old-fashioned grease pit in his garage, so he could walk under his car. But
the thing I really want to bring up here is: halfway up his stairs he built
in a recess, where he hung a garden hose long enough to reach either end of
his house, either upstairs or downstairs. They say that the first fraction
of a minute after a fire starts is critical. His idea probably could have
saved his house if he had needed it.


A garden hose is an excellent idea. My town requires a one-day fire
permit to burn wood or leaves. The permit requires a garden hose to
be hooked up and ready.

So, have I done this? No. Why not? Well, this is the first time I have
thought of it until Arch now.

Thanks, Arch. Losing one's house has to do with a lot more than just
insurance.

On Tue, 25 Sep 2007 19:33:26 -0400, (Arch) wrote:

Depressing hypothetical questions, but we might do well to consider
them.

If a fire department inspector or insurance agent came unannounced to
your turning shop today, would it pass muster?

Ummm... Does having a smoke alarm and a fire extingisher count? If it
does, I guess I'm good to go. If there's more to it, I have no idea.
The wiring is up to code, too.


If your shop-home-garage sustained a fire today would an inspection give
the insurance company enough evidence to successfully deny your claim?

Today? Probably- I've been cleaning my (new) old lathe with Kerosine
for the last couple of hours.


Turn to Safety, Arch
Fortiter


http://community.webtv.net/almcc/MacsMusings

"George Max" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 26 Sep 2007 08:18:38 -0700, robo hippy
wrote:

The first thing the insurance company will ask is do you have dust
collection. The second is do you have a smoke alarm. The third is
where is the fire extinguisher. The forth is where is the flamable
liquids cabinet. I have been turned down by several companies because
I don't have a sprinkler system. Also like Fred said, most home owners
insurance will not cover wood shops, or only minimally, especially if
you sell some stuff. You don't have to be professional, you can be a
hobbyiest who sells some things to help support your habbit. Some home
owners insurance companies will cancel you outright if they find out
you have a wood shop. The AAW insurance covers you for woodturning
only.
robo hippy



What good is homeowners insurance?

Hear me out. I'm starting to get the distinct impression that so many
things are becoming excluded, that it's really not so long before one
might say "what's the point?" and simply go without.

Several years ago, maybe 15, American Family discontinued the sewer
backup part of my insurance. Then the part about pouring anything
that causes environmental problems down a drain. Or on the ground I
suppose. Then the mold exclusions. I read that people that make a
few claims are routinely dropped. And water damage. I've read that
they'll go so far as to note that a particular house has had claims of
that nature and after that, NO insurance company will cover it.

Then in the local paper (Milwaukee Journal/Sentinel) they had a story
about a woman with a fairly old dog (it looked like a little spaniel
of some kind) of about 10 or 12 years, bit someone in response to
being kicked. Now the insurance company insists that the dog be put
down or they'll refuse to renew. And they want proof. Giving the dog
away doesn't work to satisfy them. They think the dog might come back
to that house. So says the story.

Then there's all the shenanigans in the hurricane prone areas of the
country.

I mean, really, what's it coming to? I buy insurance to cover me for
the events that happen that cause enough damage or loss that I can't
pay for myself. A fire, a storm that trashes my roof, maybe a
burglary.

In my opinion, they're in the business of assuming risk. They should
just suck it up and realize that bad things happen. They know the
odds. Set the rates accordingly.

And no, I don't sell my stuff, but I do plenty of woodworking.
Obviously lots of flammable stuff around here. Piles of wood and some
finishes.

Howdy - Short time reader, first time poster.

Can't agree more heartily!!! My take is that the business has shifted
from ASSUMING risk, to trying to MANAGE risk, which means cut out
anything you know, or even suspect, to have associated risk....
Further, at least here in Texas, the state Insurance Board does NOTHING
to help the consumer - it's all about how much influence the larger
companies
buy them off.... No value at all (Please don't let me get started...)

The ONLY reason I carry insurance is because my mortgage company
insists - if I had no mortgage, I'd have no insurance.... Might regret it at
some
point, but that's MY philosophy....

MHO,
NGA