I'm looking for a source for M2 steel rounds and flats that folks have
used, i.e. a vendor that will sell 12" rather than 12 feet.

Russ Ramirez

wrote:

I'm looking for a source for M2 steel rounds and flats that folks have
used, i.e. a vendor that will sell 12" rather than 12 feet.

Russ Ramirez

There are couple of places.

https://reidecom.reidtool.com/xephr/qbe/homepage

and

The name escapes me, just when I need it most - someone fill in this blank

C_______ Big company with a parts book that would break a mules back.

Deb

In article ,
"Dr. Deb" wrote:

wrote:

I'm looking for a source for M2 steel rounds and flats that folks have
used, i.e. a vendor that will sell 12" rather than 12 feet.

Russ Ramirez

There are couple of places.

https://reidecom.reidtool.com/xephr/qbe/homepage

and

The name escapes me, just when I need it most - someone fill in this blank

C_______ Big company with a parts book that would break a mules back.

Deb

The "Mule-breaking" book is (not starting with C) MSC -
http://www.mscdirect.com

Former competitor, now owned by same company, supposedly:
http://www.use-enco.com

Still separate and competing: The catalog they don't ever send to little
guys (less of an issue now with the web site) McMaster-Carr
http://www.mcmaster.com

--
Cats, coffee, chocolate...vices to live by

Ecnerwal wrote:
In article ,
"Dr. Deb" wrote:

wrote:

I'm looking for a source for M2 steel rounds and flats that folks have
used, i.e. a vendor that will sell 12" rather than 12 feet.

Russ Ramirez
There are couple of places.

https://reidecom.reidtool.com/xephr/qbe/homepage

and

The name escapes me, just when I need it most - someone fill in this blank

C_______ Big company with a parts book that would break a mules back.

Deb

The "Mule-breaking" book is (not starting with C) MSC -
http://www.mscdirect.com

Former competitor, now owned by same company, supposedly:
http://www.use-enco.com

Still separate and competing: The catalog they don't ever send to little
guys (less of an issue now with the web site) McMaster-Carr
http://www.mcmaster.com


To which add Production Tool and J & L Industrial Supply (both have web
sites I'm too lazy to scout out.) (36" lengths)

Might also check out any local salvage place such as "Crazy Benzy's"
around Detroit. IIRC, A2 might also suit your needs.

Bill

--
http://nmwoodworks.com/cube


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On 10 Apr 2007 14:33:04 -0700, wrote:

I'm looking for a source for M2 steel rounds and flats that folks have
used, i.e. a vendor that will sell 12" rather than 12 feet.

I've got some old M2 punch tooling that is too hard for me to work
with much at home. While I have uses for some of it, there's quite a
lot more there than I will *ever* use.

They're round, but have shallow grooves every couple of inches for
O-rings, as well as threads on one end and assorted punch profiles on
the others. I haven't measured the length, but I'd guess they 8-9"
long. Diameters range from .5" to 1.5".

Depending on how much you need, and whether or not you think these'd
work, I imagine I could send you a few of the punches if you pay the
shipping on them.

Contact me off-list at prometheus at charter.net if you're
interested.

Ecnerwal wrote:

In article ,
"Dr. Deb" wrote:

wrote:

I'm looking for a source for M2 steel rounds and flats that folks have
used, i.e. a vendor that will sell 12" rather than 12 feet.

Russ Ramirez

There are couple of places.

https://reidecom.reidtool.com/xephr/qbe/homepage

and

The name escapes me, just when I need it most - someone fill in this
blank

C_______ Big company with a parts book that would break a mules back.

Deb

The "Mule-breaking" book is (not starting with C) MSC -
http://www.mscdirect.com

Former competitor, now owned by same company, supposedly:
http://www.use-enco.com

Still separate and competing: The catalog they don't ever send to little
guys (less of an issue now with the web site) McMaster-Carr
http://www.mcmaster.com


I knew there was a "C" in there some place. Hey, at my age, that is
remarkable in and of itself. :-)

Deb

On Apr 11, 4:19 am, Prometheus wrote:
On 10 Apr 2007 14:33:04 -0700, wrote:

I'm looking for a source for M2 steel rounds and flats that folks have
used, i.e. a vendor that will sell 12" rather than 12 feet.

I've got some old M2 punch tooling that is too hard for me to work
with much at home. While I have uses for some of it, there's quite a
lot more there than I will *ever* use.

They're round, but have shallow grooves every couple of inches for
O-rings, as well as threads on one end and assorted punch profiles on
the others. I haven't measured the length, but I'd guess they 8-9"
long. Diameters range from .5" to 1.5".

Depending on how much you need, and whether or not you think these'd
work, I imagine I could send you a few of the punches if you pay the
shipping on them.

Contact me off-list at prometheus at charter.net if you're
interested.


Thanks all, I may have located a source called Griggs Steel. They
specialize in tool steels and seem willing to cut to length for a
small premium. I'll post a follow-up after ordering.

Russ

On 11 Apr 2007 19:42:25 -0700, wrote:

On Apr 11, 4:19 am, Prometheus wrote:
On 10 Apr 2007 14:33:04 -0700, wrote:

I'm looking for a source for M2 steel rounds and flats that folks have
used, i.e. a vendor that will sell 12" rather than 12 feet.

I've got some old M2 punch tooling that is too hard for me to work
with much at home. While I have uses for some of it, there's quite a
lot more there than I will *ever* use.

They're round, but have shallow grooves every couple of inches for
O-rings, as well as threads on one end and assorted punch profiles on
the others. I haven't measured the length, but I'd guess they 8-9"
long. Diameters range from .5" to 1.5".

Depending on how much you need, and whether or not you think these'd
work, I imagine I could send you a few of the punches if you pay the
shipping on them.

Contact me off-list at prometheus at charter.net if you're
interested.


Thanks all, I may have located a source called Griggs Steel. They
specialize in tool steels and seem willing to cut to length for a
small premium. I'll post a follow-up after ordering.

Had another vendor to add to the list, upon reflection. Cincinatti
tool steel will sell shorter (3'-6' lengths) as well, though I am not
sure if that comes at a premium.

EMJ (Jorgensen) occasionally will sell cut offs from bar ends as well,
though I am not sure offhand if they deal with M2.

On Apr 10, 5:33 pm, wrote:
I'm looking for a source for M2 steel rounds and flats that folks have
used, i.e. a vendor that will sell 12" rather than 12 feet.

Russ Ramirez

Russ, I have long been making my own lathe and other tools. I have the
perfect site for you. Easy on the wallet, sell short sizes, and very
prompt delivery with kind polite service. The link in on my webpage at
the very bottom of :

http://handturnedbowls.biz/links.html

I have made some very dear tools from these guys stock.

cad

"cad" writes:

Russ, I have long been making my own lathe and other tools. I have the
perfect site for you. Easy on the wallet, sell short sizes, and very
prompt delivery with kind polite service. The link in on my webpage at
the very bottom of :

http://handturnedbowls.biz/links.html

I have made some very dear tools from these guys stock.

cad

Cad, I really appreciated your description of how to heat treat tools.
I've read about it before, and always felt it was too confusing.

Max what I really meant for you to see was the link to "
toolanddie.com " the source where I get all my tool steel.

On Apr 13, 7:10 am, Max wrote:
"cad" writes:
Russ, I have long been making my own lathe and other tools. I have the
perfect site for you. Easy on the wallet, sell short sizes, and very
prompt delivery with kind polite service. The link in on my webpage at
the very bottom of :

http://handturnedbowls.biz/links.html

I have made some very dear tools from these guys stock.

cad

Cad, I really appreciated your description of how to heat treat tools.
I've read about it before, and always felt it was too confusing.

On Apr 14, 6:00 am, "cad" wrote:
Max what I really meant for you to see was the link to "
toolanddie.com " the source where I get all my tool steel.

On Apr 13, 7:10 am, Max wrote:

"cad" writes:
Russ, I have long been making my own lathe and other tools. I have the
perfect site for you. Easy on the wallet, sell short sizes, and very
prompt delivery with kind polite service. The link in on my webpage at
the very bottom of :

http://handturnedbowls.biz/links.html

I have made some very dear tools from these guys stock.

cad

Cad, I really appreciated your description of how to heat treat tools.
I've read about it before, and always felt it was too confusing.

I have a very basic question. When you go to toolanddie.com's web
site, they offer ground flat stock in O1, A2, 4142, etc. Are these
considered HSS? I am looking for 1/8" thick scraper bits for a Basham
tool.

JoeD wrote:

I have a very basic question. When you go to toolanddie.com's web
site, they offer ground flat stock in O1, A2, 4142, etc. Are these
considered HSS? I am looking for 1/8" thick scraper bits for a Basham
tool.

Probably more information than you actually need.

http://www.geocities.com/SiliconVall...eels/indx.html

Google for AISI or American Iron and Steel Institute

Bill

--
http://nmwoodworks.com/cube


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On 16 Apr 2007 00:59:40 -0700, "JoeD"
wrote:

I have a very basic question. When you go to toolanddie.com's web
site, they offer ground flat stock in O1, A2, 4142, etc. Are these
considered HSS? I am looking for 1/8" thick scraper bits for a Basham
tool.

Nope- every one of those is different, and none of them are HSS (M2).

But for home heat treating, you're better off with one of the first
two. The letters indicate what kind of quenching the metal needs to
harden it- O1 is oil-hardening, which means you need to dunk it in a
pan of oil to quench it. There are professional quenching oils, but
I've heard a lot of guys say they just use transmission fluid.
Usually the oil is heated a little (160-180* F, IIRC) to make the
quench less severe. Keep a fire extinguisher on hand- the oil can
start on fire when it reaches it's flash point.

A2 is air-hardening tool steel. It's easy to quench, because all you
need it to let it air cool- but from what I understand, once it's
hardened, that's the end of the game.

4142 is an alloy, and as far as I know, is not particularly good for
making bladed tools, though it is very tough and wear resistant. Odds
are, you won't be able to heat treat it at home- same thing goes for
M2. Each require some pretty specific treatment that is out of range
for most guys goofing around in the garage.

The blacksmiths I've talked to seem to like O1 the best. According to
most of them, you'll get more blade out of that than M2, because you
can heat-treat it properly at home, but you can't do much with M2.

Now, for the real answer to your question-
Stop looking for bars of steel! If you just need scraper bits, you
should be able to find short bars of M2 through most metalworking
vendors. It used to be that machinists ground all the tools they used
out of that stock, and it's still around. They should run about $1 a
piece.

JoeD,
I used PM-C1018ON Marshallcrat (C1018) Low Carbon Onsize Ground
Flat Stock to make my scraper bits.

This is the low end quality. But, in scraping,I never make pressure
cuts. They are light barely discernable when I do it other than
watching the obvious fluff that comes off of the bit. So I rarely get
the bit hot.

On my scraper bits I gring one end with a radius point, probably about
a 1/8th radius. The opposite end ground to a 1/2" radius for the
actual finish scraping. I have a hole in the middle of the bit. When I
need to remove heavy cut lines I use the 1/8" end. Then when I am
ready to impart a smooth wall I reverse the bit 180 degrees and take
light passes. A two in one bit.

You can get better steel, A2, that will hold an edge longer, but with
the proper releif angle on the scraper bit it does a fine job for a
long time.

I'm a very frugal person, by necessity. I dont have a nifty retirement
plan and oodles of time to figure out what I will do each day. I am
still trying to figure out how to pay two mortgages and a car payment
on unemployment.

cad


On Apr 16, 3:59 am, "JoeD" wrote:
On Apr 14, 6:00 am, "cad" wrote:





Max what I really meant for you to see was the link to "
toolanddie.com " the source where I get all my tool steel.

On Apr 13, 7:10 am, Max wrote:

"cad" writes:
Russ, I have long been making my own lathe and other tools. I have the
perfect site for you. Easy on the wallet, sell short sizes, and very
prompt delivery with kind polite service. The link in on my webpage at
the very bottom of :

http://handturnedbowls.biz/links.html

I have made some very dear tools from these guys stock.

cad

Cad, I really appreciated your description of how to heat treat tools.
I've read about it before, and always felt it was too confusing.

I have a very basic question. When you go to toolanddie.com's web
site, they offer ground flat stock in O1, A2, 4142, etc. Are these
considered HSS? I am looking for 1/8" thick scraper bits for a Basham
tool.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Hi Joe

We have a member of our turning club here in London On, that makes the
type of scraper bits you refer to.
He gets used planer knives and makes them out of them, those planer
knives he uses, are HSS.
Score the knives and break into pieces, than grind to shape, the
hardest part is making the hole, he uses carbide drills and burn them
through.
He sells them in three sizes, for $15.-- $20.-- and $25.--, the
turners that have bought them say they cut better than the original
ones.

Have fun and take care
Leo Van Der Loo



On Apr 16, 3:59 am, "JoeD" wrote:
On Apr 14, 6:00 am, "cad" wrote:



Max what I really meant for you to see was the link to "
toolanddie.com " the source where I get all my tool steel.

On Apr 13, 7:10 am, Max wrote:

"cad" writes:
Russ, I have long been making my own lathe and other tools. I have the
perfect site for you. Easy on the wallet, sell short sizes, and very
prompt delivery with kind polite service. The link in on my webpage at
the very bottom of :

http://handturnedbowls.biz/links.html

I have made some very dear tools from these guys stock.

cad

Cad, I really appreciated your description of how to heat treat tools.
I've read about it before, and always felt it was too confusing.

I have a very basic question. When you go to toolanddie.com's web
site, they offer ground flat stock in O1, A2, 4142, etc. Are these
considered HSS? I am looking for 1/8" thick scraper bits for a Basham
tool.

cad wrote:
JoeD,
I used PM-C1018ON Marshallcrat (C1018) Low Carbon Onsize Ground
Flat Stock to make my scraper bits.

This is the low end quality. But, in scraping,I never make pressure
cuts. They are light barely discernable when I do it other than
watching the obvious fluff that comes off of the bit. So I rarely get
the bit hot.

On my scraper bits I gring one end with a radius point, probably about
a 1/8th radius. The opposite end ground to a 1/2" radius for the
actual finish scraping. I have a hole in the middle of the bit. When I
need to remove heavy cut lines I use the 1/8" end. Then when I am
ready to impart a smooth wall I reverse the bit 180 degrees and take
light passes. A two in one bit.

You can get better steel, A2, that will hold an edge longer, but with
the proper releif angle on the scraper bit it does a fine job for a
long time.

I'm a very frugal person, by necessity. I dont have a nifty retirement
plan and oodles of time to figure out what I will do each day. I am
still trying to figure out how to pay two mortgages and a car payment
on unemployment.

cad


cad,

I'm offering this information from ancient memory so you might want to
double check every syllable.

If you can bump your steel up to just 1020 (a tiny bit more carbon), you
can harden it without any special treatment. ISTR you'll want a water
bath for that one. This is a through-hardening. You can also case harden
the 1018 buy cooking it in a bed of charcoal briquets. Build a good
fire, heat the steel in a torch flame and insert into the charcoal, well
buried. Allow the charcoal fire to die naturally. ISTR that this adds
enough carbon to the skin to harden it when you re-do the heat / cooling
cycle normally.

If not, try this: get your steel to a bright cherry and plunge it into a
box of high-nitrogen fertilizer. Let it cool completely there ...
overnight at least. This is a case-hardening which leaves a hardened
skin on a softer middle.

When case hardening, grind to near-net size before hardening as only a
thin layer will be hardened and major re-shaping will remove that layer.

Chemically speaking, this is how some of the fabled swords were
hardened. Although, they used living slaves and convicts as the source
of nitrogen. We have other, re-useable, sources. Urea fertilizer will
set you back only 2-3 GBP for a lifetime supply. Or, use it for a few
pieces and spread it on your lawn (well watered) or your neighbors lawn
(without water). };-)

--
http://nmwoodworks.com/cube


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On 17 Apr 2007 05:07:30 -0700, cad wrote:

JoeD,
I used PM-C1018ON Marshallcrat (C1018) Low Carbon Onsize Ground
Flat Stock to make my scraper bits.

This is the low end quality. But, in scraping,I never make pressure
cuts. They are light barely discernable when I do it other than
watching the obvious fluff that comes off of the bit. So I rarely get
the bit hot.

I won't say that the 1018 doesn't work for you, as it obviously is-
but the problem with that material isn't a matter of whether or not
you get it hot, it's the lack of carbon. Low carbon means two things,
as I understand it. The first is that it is more malleable, which is
a point in it's favor, and the second is that it is not hardenable-
which is a big strike against it as a cutting tool.

Try one of these guys out, if you get the opportunity-

http://www.littlemachineshop.com/pro...y=120824224 6

You just grind the profile you need and away you go. They should be
heat-treated already. Couldn't tell you anything much about the site
these are on, it was just the first one I found. They do come in
different sizes, and should fit into even a very tight budget.

On my scraper bits I gring one end with a radius point, probably about
a 1/8th radius. The opposite end ground to a 1/2" radius for the
actual finish scraping. I have a hole in the middle of the bit. When I
need to remove heavy cut lines I use the 1/8" end. Then when I am
ready to impart a smooth wall I reverse the bit 180 degrees and take
light passes. A two in one bit.

You can get better steel, A2, that will hold an edge longer, but with
the proper releif angle on the scraper bit it does a fine job for a
long time.

Prometheus writes:

Try one of these guys out, if you get the opportunity-

http://www.littlemachineshop.com/pro...y=120824224 6

I like the store, but their toolbits are a little pricey at
$1.29. Most people get them from a company like ENCO

Current ENCO prices for M2 toolbits:
$0.49 1/8 x 1/8 x 2 1/2
0.55 3/8 x 3/8 x 2 1/2
0.72 1/4 x 1/4 x 2 1/2
0.84 5/8 x 5/8 x 2 1/2

http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INLMK32?PARTPG=INSRAR2

They go on sale often. Some buy by the dozen.
Enco also has 3 ft Drill Rod. A-2 is Air Hardened.

http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INLMK32?PARTPG=INSRAR2


1/2 inch by 36" is $18.91

Combine these and make a Oland tool. I haven't made one yet (it's on
my todo list), but cut the drill rod in half which gives you a 18"
metal holder to mount in a wooden handle and $10 each. The toolbit
goes at the end of the drill rod. You could also grind your own
profile I guess.


People usually wait until they have a $50 order (or more), and use the
ENCO coupon code so they get free shipping.

ps. Enco has 4 kinds of drill rod
A-1 Air Hardening
D-1 Air Hardening
O-1 Oil Hardening
W-1 Water Hardening


They have air harden flat stock, and machinist tools, etc.
I have lots on my TODO list.

Wholesale Tool Co
www.wttool.com
carries M2 toolbit stock. Squares up to 1/2 in and 6 in long, and M2
rectangular stock up to 4 in long


On Tue, 17 Apr 2007 03:57:45 -0500, Prometheus
wrote:

Now, for the real answer to your question-
Stop looking for bars of steel! If you just need scraper bits, you
should be able to find short bars of M2 through most metalworking
vendors. It used to be that machinists ground all the tools they used
out of that stock, and it's still around. They should run about $1 a
piece.