I've been sort of lusting after the termite for end grain stuff... My wife told
me this morning that she was going to get it for me for Christmas, but was
afraid of ordering the wrong thing..

She asked me to go ahead and order it, but I'm sorta getting cold feet... I'd
have to buy a $80 tool and end up having it sit on a shelf not being used..

Anyone try the Termite?

Anyone using something better than the Termite?


Feedback appreciated...


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

"mac davis" wrote in message
...
I've been sort of lusting after the termite for end grain stuff... My wife
told
me this morning that she was going to get it for me for Christmas, but was
afraid of ordering the wrong thing..

She asked me to go ahead and order it, but I'm sorta getting cold feet...
I'd
have to buy a $80 tool and end up having it sit on a shelf not being
used..


It's a ring tool, which is a closed hook tool, which is a gouge at right
angles to the handle.

A gouge produces a nice surface cutting downhill on endgrain, the Termite
does it sideways. It's fine for box and goblet bottoms, marginally better
than a fingernail gouge on their insides, depending on taper. Hook tool can
even be used on deep cross grain, but you'll want a lot of leverage. Look
at the pictures of the old boys and you'll see them with a handle long
enough to steady in an armpit.

Problem with a ring over the hook is in shaving ejection. Ring fills up
quickly if you're being aggressive, or the damp wood is sticking together in
long shavings. The larger ring cannot be sharpened with the sharpening cone
they provide with the standard kit, BTW.

Second problem is that it's really intolerant of out-of-round conditions.
Getting best results requires a bevel reference, so it's for first hollowing
or final passes, not for bringing something back to round after drying. Use
a standard gouge or scraper for that.

What it does is close to priceless, if you've ever tried to scrape some
woods' endgrain, and then to sand it into some semblance of smooth. If
you're making a lot of boxes or goblets, purchase it as what it is - a
one-trick-pony - and enjoy. Otherwise, don't waste a gift occasion.

FWIW, boxes don't sell worth a squat around here. Nice ones take almost 45
minutes, and people won't give $20 for 'em. Will for a goblet which takes
less time, though. Go figure.

Boxes are rather curious in how they sell. Our club (Beaver State
Woodturners) had a demo by a Portland turner on turning boxes. His deal
was that "after I started flocking the insides, they really started
moving for me." Well, as I like to turn boxes, and mine hadn't been
selling that well, I got all of the flocking supplies, and did a run of
20 or so boxes. Of course, the first person in my booth after I had the
flocked boxes asked "Do you have any without this stuff in them?" Now I
just use beeswax for the inside.
I was up in Seattle for a show in November, and almost sold out of
boxes. One woman bought 11, and another guy bought 5. Now I am making
some more. Who knows when they will sell. Probably when that one
special person comes by.
robo hippy

Mac
I have made hook tools and played with them a fair bit. I like them for end
grain but like george is saying, not for returning to round. On the other
hand, I seldom rough turn end grain and then dry and final turn the stuff.
Mostly, I turn a vase or whatever to finish. I think, though, if I were
getting a Termite, I would buy the ring and make the handle and shaft.
By the way, there is a not inconsiderable learning curve to one of these
things. Set the tool rest a little high so the tool is angled down below
center, set the hook at about 8:30, set your speed slow, and be ready for a
great catch, especially when you hit your first knot. It is a lot of fun.

--
God bless and safe turning
Darrell Feltmate
Truro, NS Canada
www.aroundthewoods.com

Mac,
I am the manufacturer of the Scorpion and Stinger Hollow Vessel Boring Bar
Systems.
I say that to be up front about the fact that I have a monitary intrest in
the this as well as that of a woodturner.
If you have a Scorpion style straight bar and a forearm rest type of handle,
The Termite tool becomes very easy to use.
A straight handle allows the Termite to catch and rotate much easier that a
Scorpion, Stewart, or Sorby type forearm support handle.
There are two ways to work this out. One is to have a Scorpion style
Straight bar and one of the above mentioned handles. You then only need to
buy the Termite Tool Bits and not the handle. The Termite tool bit will fit
in the end of the tool bar and your off and running.
The second way is to have one of the above mentioned handles and to buy the
whole Termite Tool Set. You can then remove the wooden handle from the
Termite Tool and place the shaft directly into the handle. You will need to
have an insert for the handle. The bore on the above handles is 3/4" and
the Termite shaft is closer to 1/2". I do not know whether Stewart or Sorby
hav the inserts. Maybe someone else out there reading this can address
that. I do know that we do.

I have posted this mainly as an option for those who own one of the above
handles. Buying the handle just so that you can use the Termite Tool might
not be economically sound.
But if you have a hollow vessel boring bar set like the Scorpion or are
planing to get one, this should be helpful.
If you have any questions or would like to talk to me further, e-mail me
your telephone number and I will call you.


Be Well,
Don Pencil
WWW.DONPENCIL.COM
714-709-3281


"mac davis" wrote in message
...
I've been sort of lusting after the termite for end grain stuff... My wife
told
me this morning that she was going to get it for me for Christmas, but was
afraid of ordering the wrong thing..

She asked me to go ahead and order it, but I'm sorta getting cold feet...
I'd
have to buy a $80 tool and end up having it sit on a shelf not being
used..

Anyone try the Termite?

Anyone using something better than the Termite?


Feedback appreciated...


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

Hi Mac

Mac I sometimes use the termite, it's a good tool for end grain cutting
rather than scraping, it is not the best for side grain turning, but it
was not designed for that.

The only beef I have with the termite is the tools shaft, I find that it
should be heavier, it's easy to make a heavier bar if one would want to
do that though.

Yes you can buy just the tool tip and make your own handle but I like
the whole set, you get the sharpening point, it's a special point not
just a regular grinder stone, and the holder for the tip, so you can
sharpen the cutters easily with a router setup, the tip has to turn
something like 30.000 rpm (seem to recall that I think).

The thing about the tool not cutting because the hole plugging up is not
right, the tool cuts with the wood being sliced and riding/sliding
curling of the inside bevel, not by going through the hole, however if
not presented proper you could get a chunk of wood to get stuck in the
hole and blocking the bevel so the wood is than prevented from curling
away from the tool.

I think the tool has a bit of a learning curve but with some practice
it's a good tool for what it is designed for, cutting end grain.

I got a link to Herman de Vries's website he has some info on the use of
the termite tool, it might be some help.

http://www.hdv.net/

Have fun and take care
Leo Van Der Loo

mac davis wrote:
I've been sort of lusting after the termite for end grain stuff... My wife told
me this morning that she was going to get it for me for Christmas, but was
afraid of ordering the wrong thing..

She asked me to go ahead and order it, but I'm sorta getting cold feet... I'd
have to buy a $80 tool and end up having it sit on a shelf not being used..

Anyone try the Termite?

Anyone using something better than the Termite?


Feedback appreciated...


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

On Wed, 7 Dec 2005 12:22:48 -0500, "George" George@least wrote:


It's a ring tool, which is a closed hook tool, which is a gouge at right
angles to the handle.

ok, I think I can picture that...

A gouge produces a nice surface cutting downhill on endgrain, the Termite
does it sideways. It's fine for box and goblet bottoms, marginally better
than a fingernail gouge on their insides, depending on taper. Hook tool can
even be used on deep cross grain, but you'll want a lot of leverage. Look
at the pictures of the old boys and you'll see them with a handle long
enough to steady in an armpit.

yeah, that's exactly what I'm looking for, a tool for box and shallow vase
bottoms on end grain work... I can't see using it for a cross grain bowl or side
work....

Problem with a ring over the hook is in shaving ejection. Ring fills up
quickly if you're being aggressive, or the damp wood is sticking together in
long shavings. The larger ring cannot be sharpened with the sharpening cone
they provide with the standard kit, BTW.

hmm.. Good point...
I'll have to check with Oneway.. the "implied message" is that the stone is just
set further out from the router to sharpen the larger one..

Second problem is that it's really intolerant of out-of-round conditions.
Getting best results requires a bevel reference, so it's for first hollowing
or final passes, not for bringing something back to round after drying. Use
a standard gouge or scraper for that.

What it does is close to priceless, if you've ever tried to scrape some
woods' endgrain, and then to sand it into some semblance of smooth. If
you're making a lot of boxes or goblets, purchase it as what it is - a
one-trick-pony - and enjoy. Otherwise, don't waste a gift occasion.

Cool.. After a couple of years of cracked bowls, I turn most things to finish
thickness now and let them warp...
It's getting through the end grain that is a PITA for me with a bowl gouge,
especially after the initial inch or two of depth.....
I hadn't considered the fact that it might also replace or reduce the use of
scrapers...

FWIW, boxes don't sell worth a squat around here. Nice ones take almost 45
minutes, and people won't give $20 for 'em. Will for a goblet which takes
less time, though. Go figure.

No problem here.. only sold a few boxes, but that's because the wife snaps them
all up as soon as they're done... and I'd rather make something that she likes
that sell it, anyway..

Thanks, George.. good info!


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

On Wed, 07 Dec 2005 20:02:46 GMT, "Darrell Feltmate"
wrote:

Mac
I have made hook tools and played with them a fair bit. I like them for end
grain but like george is saying, not for returning to round. On the other
hand, I seldom rough turn end grain and then dry and final turn the stuff.
Mostly, I turn a vase or whatever to finish. I think, though, if I were
getting a Termite, I would buy the ring and make the handle and shaft.
By the way, there is a not inconsiderable learning curve to one of these
things. Set the tool rest a little high so the tool is angled down below
center, set the hook at about 8:30, set your speed slow, and be ready for a
great catch, especially when you hit your first knot. It is a lot of fun.

Yeah, I looked at your hook tool several times, Darrell...
But, not being a blacksmith or welder, It's easier for me to just pay the $80
and make shavings...

OTOH, I've made 3 Oland tools now from your page and use 'em all the time...


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

On Wed, 07 Dec 2005 22:28:04 -0500, Leo Van Der Loo
wrote:

Hi Mac

Mac I sometimes use the termite, it's a good tool for end grain cutting
rather than scraping, it is not the best for side grain turning, but it
was not designed for that.

The only beef I have with the termite is the tools shaft, I find that it
should be heavier, it's easy to make a heavier bar if one would want to
do that though.

Yes you can buy just the tool tip and make your own handle but I like
the whole set, you get the sharpening point, it's a special point not
just a regular grinder stone, and the holder for the tip, so you can
sharpen the cutters easily with a router setup, the tip has to turn
something like 30.000 rpm (seem to recall that I think).

The thing about the tool not cutting because the hole plugging up is not
right, the tool cuts with the wood being sliced and riding/sliding
curling of the inside bevel, not by going through the hole, however if
not presented proper you could get a chunk of wood to get stuck in the
hole and blocking the bevel so the wood is than prevented from curling
away from the tool.

I think the tool has a bit of a learning curve but with some practice
it's a good tool for what it is designed for, cutting end grain.

I got a link to Herman de Vries's website he has some info on the use of
the termite tool, it might be some help.

http://www.hdv.net/

Have fun and take care
Leo Van Der Loo

Thanks, Leo.. I have been to Herman's site along with a few others..

I'm sure that I could make my own handle, but if you buy the 2 tips and the
sharpening setup, you've paid about the same as just getting the set..
I'm sort of anal that way.. I could have made my own handles for the coring
system I bought but would rather have it the way Kelton designed it...

Most of the boxes I do are less than 4" diameter, and only a few inches deep, so
I don't think a heavier or longer handle would be a factor..


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

"mac davis" wrote in message
...
It's getting through the end grain that is a PITA for me with a bowl
gouge,
especially after the initial inch or two of depth.....
I hadn't considered the fact that it might also replace or reduce the use
of
scrapers...


Pointy gouge. Or, if you look to Darryl's site, you'll see almost the same
in use as an Oland tool.

Plunge, roll and either push outside in or pull inside out. As long as
it's a fairly open form - I'm doing ornaments with a 5/8 entry and a 1/4
gouge right now - it'll do a great job hollowing endgrain. The degree of
aggression can be easily varied by the amount of bevel you allow in contact
with the side.
http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d1...e/725a28f2.jpg
http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d1...e/5fa71f2e.jpg

Then you can scrape the bottom or cut with the termite. I have also used a
round washer-type scraper mounted at 45 degrees on a square shank - think it
was a Sorby. Might want to look at it as perhaps a less-expensive
alternative. A couple variants available, including one which looks like a
metal lathe cutting tool with a channel around the edge to curl and clear
the shaving. It will give you the same effect as "shear scraping" with the
termite, which is what Leo is describing, where the shaving does not go
through the hole.

Had you considered one of the hollowing devices with the shaving limiters?
They control the problem of jamming and to a degree, grabbing, by limiting
the thickness and controlling the direction of the shaving. Sort of like a
mini spokeshave on a stick. Don makes and sells, one, as he says, and then
there's the down under guy who pops in now and again to draw the ire of the
foul-mouthed paranoid. Pro Forme, I believe is his brand.

Mac, if someone wants to buy you a Termite, take it. I turn many large
and deep end grain vessels, and have been using the Termite to bring them
into submission for years now. When you are 24" into the top of a vase
you need the tool to handle it.

But I use it on bowls too. Just yesterday I hollowed a wet Manitoba oak
bowl, 18" diameter and 8" deep. I was cross grain, but I still used the
Termite because the wood is extremely hard and dense.

What you get, though, depends on the size of vessels you want to do. The
handle that comes with the Termite is pretty puny, and will take you 4 to
5" at the very most. It's OK for small pieces. If you are going any
deeper than that, have a blacksmith make you a 3/4" shaft for starters.
Mine is 18" long with another 5" into the handle. Drill a hole in the end
of a cold rolled steel bar, chuck it at very low speed, like 20 rmp or
so, into your lathe with the hole in the rotating tail stock. I used a
side grinder to taper the shaft the last 6" or so, down to where a little
less than 1/8" remained around the hole. Smooth it down nicely. Takes a
bit of time, and there will be some clean up, but it's not hard to do.
Then, drill a hole perpendicular to the first hole for the set screw to
hold in the Termite cutter.

For a really super tool, take it to a chome plating outfit and spend the
$30 or so to have it chrome plated. Makes it a lot nicer to use and it
looks great too.

See my webpage at www.hdv.net for a photo of the tools I have made for
the Termite and download the help file on using the Termite (under tools
and tips). That might help.

Mostly, plan to spend some time learning to use the tool and you'll not
regret it. By the way, those cutters are tough, tough, tough. I have one
shaft that is 57" long, 1½" in diameter and weighs 35 pounds. I've hit
rock hard knots with the big (#3) cutter in this shaft, and so far I've
only broken one old worn out cutter.

Hope this helps. If I had to do it over again I would only buy the
cutters (one of each) and the sharpening jig, and make all my own shafts,
even the small one.

Herm




Leo Van Der Loo wrote in
:

Hi Mac

Mac I sometimes use the termite, it's a good tool for end grain
cutting rather than scraping, it is not the best for side grain
turning, but it was not designed for that.

The only beef I have with the termite is the tools shaft, I find that
it should be heavier, it's easy to make a heavier bar if one would
want to do that though.

Yes you can buy just the tool tip and make your own handle but I like
the whole set, you get the sharpening point, it's a special point not
just a regular grinder stone, and the holder for the tip, so you can
sharpen the cutters easily with a router setup, the tip has to turn
something like 30.000 rpm (seem to recall that I think).

The thing about the tool not cutting because the hole plugging up is
not right, the tool cuts with the wood being sliced and riding/sliding
curling of the inside bevel, not by going through the hole, however if
not presented proper you could get a chunk of wood to get stuck in the
hole and blocking the bevel so the wood is than prevented from curling
away from the tool.

I think the tool has a bit of a learning curve but with some practice
it's a good tool for what it is designed for, cutting end grain.

I got a link to Herman de Vries's website he has some info on the use
of the termite tool, it might be some help.

http://www.hdv.net/

Have fun and take care
Leo Van Der Loo

mac davis wrote:
I've been sort of lusting after the termite for end grain stuff... My
wife told me this morning that she was going to get it for me for
Christmas, but was afraid of ordering the wrong thing..

She asked me to go ahead and order it, but I'm sorta getting cold
feet... I'd have to buy a $80 tool and end up having it sit on a
shelf not being used..

Anyone try the Termite?

Anyone using something better than the Termite?


Feedback appreciated...


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

On Thu, 08 Dec 2005 15:49:49 GMT, Herman de Vries wrote:

Mac, if someone wants to buy you a Termite, take it. I turn many large
and deep end grain vessels, and have been using the Termite to bring them
into submission for years now. When you are 24" into the top of a vase
you need the tool to handle it.

But I use it on bowls too. Just yesterday I hollowed a wet Manitoba oak
bowl, 18" diameter and 8" deep. I was cross grain, but I still used the
Termite because the wood is extremely hard and dense.

What you get, though, depends on the size of vessels you want to do. The
handle that comes with the Termite is pretty puny, and will take you 4 to
5" at the very most. It's OK for small pieces. If you are going any
deeper than that, have a blacksmith make you a 3/4" shaft for starters.
Mine is 18" long with another 5" into the handle. Drill a hole in the end
of a cold rolled steel bar, chuck it at very low speed, like 20 rmp or
so, into your lathe with the hole in the rotating tail stock. I used a
side grinder to taper the shaft the last 6" or so, down to where a little
less than 1/8" remained around the hole. Smooth it down nicely. Takes a
bit of time, and there will be some clean up, but it's not hard to do.
Then, drill a hole perpendicular to the first hole for the set screw to
hold in the Termite cutter.

For a really super tool, take it to a chome plating outfit and spend the
$30 or so to have it chrome plated. Makes it a lot nicer to use and it
looks great too.

See my webpage at www.hdv.net for a photo of the tools I have made for
the Termite and download the help file on using the Termite (under tools
and tips). That might help.

Mostly, plan to spend some time learning to use the tool and you'll not
regret it. By the way, those cutters are tough, tough, tough. I have one
shaft that is 57" long, 1½" in diameter and weighs 35 pounds. I've hit
rock hard knots with the big (#3) cutter in this shaft, and so far I've
only broken one old worn out cutter.

Hope this helps. If I had to do it over again I would only buy the
cutters (one of each) and the sharpening jig, and make all my own shafts,
even the small one.

Herm

THanks, Herm... I've been to your site and I think that the PDF file that I have
on using the termite and making handles for it are yours...


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

On Thu, 8 Dec 2005 07:10:20 -0500, "George" George@least wrote:


"mac davis" wrote in message
.. .
It's getting through the end grain that is a PITA for me with a bowl

Pointy gouge. Or, if you look to Darryl's site, you'll see almost the same
in use as an Oland tool.


An Oland is what I'm using now... I made a tip that extends almost 2" from the
tool so that it reaches nicely and also does a little side scraping... the more
I use the Oland, the more I like it.. I've made 3 so far..

I started using the Oland because the pointy or swept wing gouge require a lot
more skill than I have right now... too many "oops" grooves near the bottom
corners that have to be scraped, etc...

Had you considered one of the hollowing devices with the shaving limiters?
They control the problem of jamming and to a degree, grabbing, by limiting
the thickness and controlling the direction of the shaving. Sort of like a
mini spokeshave on a stick. Don makes and sells, one, as he says, and then
there's the down under guy who pops in now and again to draw the ire of the
foul-mouthed paranoid. Pro Forme, I believe is his brand.

I would, but most of them are for hollow forms and pretty expensive and
elaborate...
I look at hollow forms and vessels and admire the work and all, but I just have
no interest in making them... almost a separate hobby..


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

Herman de Vries said:

Mac, if someone wants to buy you a Termite, take it.

snip

Hope this helps. If I had to do it over again I would only buy the
cutters (one of each) and the sharpening jig, and make all my own shafts,
even the small one.

Herm, very interesting. Thanks.


Greg G.