As previous : Just back from holiday in Italy. We stayed on a campsite
which I was highly impressed with. It was full of Germans but the bright
side of that was the quality and efficiency of everything - we suspect it
may have been German owned.

We stayed in a chalet and it had a gas supply and the hot water for the
shower and taps was supplied from a combi. Loved the constancy of the
temperature and instant hot water and the fact you could fill the kettle
with hot water which speeds up coffee making. I know combis are debated a
lot and we are keen to swop to them at home and this experience just
reinforced that.

Came back to our crappy electric shower and water tank and the first thing I
noticed was when I went to brush my teeth the water was stinking. I have
long feared what bugs lurk in the water tank. Sent hubby to look in the tank
for dead things but he couldn't see any. We ran the water full blast for an
hour and it improved but the next morning it was manky again.

Is there any miracle thing I could put in to dissolve the murk at the bottom
and make it like sparkly new instead of something that could preserve oak
for 10000 years?

Suz wrote:

Came back to our crappy electric shower and water tank and the first thing I
noticed was when I went to brush my teeth the water was stinking. I have
long feared what bugs lurk in the water tank. Sent hubby to look in the tank
for dead things but he couldn't see any. We ran the water full blast for an
hour and it improved but the next morning it was manky again.

I understood that it was the usual (now mandatory?) practice to
feed the bathroom sink cold tap from the rising main, for this
reason.

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham UK


Have dancing shoes, will ceilidh.

"Chris J Dixon" wrote in message
...
Suz wrote:

Came back to our crappy electric shower and water tank and the first
thing I
noticed was when I went to brush my teeth the water was stinking. I have
long feared what bugs lurk in the water tank. Sent hubby to look in the
tank
for dead things but he couldn't see any. We ran the water full blast for
an
hour and it improved but the next morning it was manky again.

I understood that it was the usual (now mandatory?) practice to
feed the bathroom sink cold tap from the rising main, for this
reason.

Well if it isn't, it should be.

"Suz" wrote
| As previous : Just back from holiday in Italy. ... the quality and
| efficiency of everything - we suspect it may have been German owned.

Just a slight possibility of German ownership there I would surmise :-)

| Came back to our crappy electric shower and water tank and the first
| thing I noticed was when I went to brush my teeth the water was
| stinking. I have long feared what bugs lurk in the water tank.
| Sent hubby to look in the tank for dead things but he couldn't
| see any. We ran the water full blast for an hour and it
| improved but the next morning it was manky again.
| Is there any miracle thing I could put in to dissolve the murk
| at the bottom and make it like sparkly new instead of something
| that could preserve oak for 10000 years?

A traditional (Italian)(!) remedy for manky wells was to shove in a few
shovelfuls of lime (exactly what type of lime I don't know, sorry).
Apparently this kills all bugs going. The downside is that it also makes the
beautifully soft well-water hard as nails.

I think you probably are faced with emptying the tank (tie up ballcock or
turn off at mains, and run off cold water), baling out the sediment, and
then scrubbing with Milton. If the tank doesn't have a proper lid then you
can get "water bylaw" kits from the plumbers merchants with lids and stuff.

Owain

On Thu, 24 Jun 2004 19:32:52 +0100, Suz wrote:

the first thing I noticed was when I went to brush my teeth the
water was stinking.

Is this tap fed from the rising main or from the tank?

We ran the water full blast for an hour and it improved but the next
morning it was manky again.

Was niff chlorine?

Is there any miracle thing I could put in to dissolve the murk at
the bottom and make it like sparkly new instead of something that
could preserve oak for 10000 years?

Turn of the water, get a hose pipe join it to a length of rigid tube
(15mm copper and a hose pipe tap connector works well), shape the end
of the pipe something like:

+-----------------
|
\
\
\
+--------------

Run the hose down into the bath or loo, and stick the other end cooper
pipe end in the tank. Start a siphon(*1) running then hoover the
bottom of the tank running the champered bit of pipe on the tank
bottom, the small oping lets water flow to flush the detritus down the
siphon and stops the suction sticking the pipe to the tank base... Go
gently so as not to stire it up and you should have hoovered all the
base before the tank is empty. Finally wipe out with clean cloths and
refill, there you are nice clean tank.

Now make sure that the tank is well lagged and has close fitting lid
with no holes for stuff to get in or fall through. The tank should now
stay clean, if it doesn't the muck is in your water supply and your
drinking that no matter the source, tank or rising main.(*2)


*1: This is the hard bit, you can't (well I couldn't) suck 1/2"
hosepipe hard enough to get the siphon to run. So put copper and 6' of
hose into tank to fill it with water, hard kinked the hose underwater
to stop any back flow then pulled the hose out of the tank releasing
the kink below tank level.

*2: Birminghams water may be nice and soft from the Elan Valley but
it's filthy, presumably iron from 100 miles of 24" cast iron main...

--
Cheers
Dave. pam is missing e-mail

"Owain" wrote in message
...
"Suz" wrote
| As previous : Just back from holiday in Italy. ... the quality and
| efficiency of everything - we suspect it may have been German owned.

Just a slight possibility of German ownership there I would surmise :-)

| Came back to our crappy electric shower and water tank and the first
| thing I noticed was when I went to brush my teeth the water was
| stinking. I have long feared what bugs lurk in the water tank.
| Sent hubby to look in the tank for dead things but he couldn't
| see any. We ran the water full blast for an hour and it
| improved but the next morning it was manky again.
| Is there any miracle thing I could put in to dissolve the murk
| at the bottom and make it like sparkly new instead of something
| that could preserve oak for 10000 years?

A traditional (Italian)(!) remedy for manky wells was to shove in a few
shovelfuls of lime (exactly what type of lime I don't know, sorry).
Apparently this kills all bugs going. The downside is that it also makes
the
beautifully soft well-water hard as nails.

I think you probably are faced with emptying the tank (tie up ballcock or
turn off at mains, and run off cold water), baling out the sediment, and
then scrubbing with Milton. If the tank doesn't have a proper lid then you
can get "water bylaw" kits from the plumbers merchants with lids and
stuff.

Or go main water system with combi or heat bank. Storage tanks are spurned
upon because of what you experienced. The Americans think we are mad using
them.

"Dave Liquorice" wrote in message
ll.com...
On Thu, 24 Jun 2004 19:32:52 +0100, Suz wrote:

the first thing I noticed was when I went to brush my teeth the
water was stinking.

Is this tap fed from the rising main or from the tank?

We ran the water full blast for an hour and it improved but the next
morning it was manky again.

Was niff chlorine?

Is there any miracle thing I could put in to dissolve the murk at
the bottom and make it like sparkly new instead of something that
could preserve oak for 10000 years?

Turn of the water, get a hose pipe join it to a length of rigid tube
(15mm copper and a hose pipe tap connector works well), shape the end
of the pipe something like:

+-----------------
|
\
\
\
+--------------

Run the hose down into the bath or loo, and stick the other end cooper
pipe end in the tank. Start a siphon(*1) running then hoover the
bottom of the tank running the champered bit of pipe on the tank
bottom, the small oping lets water flow to flush the detritus down the
siphon and stops the suction sticking the pipe to the tank base... Go
gently so as not to stire it up and you should have hoovered all the
base before the tank is empty. Finally wipe out with clean cloths and
refill, there you are nice clean tank.

Now make sure that the tank is well lagged and has close fitting lid
with no holes for stuff to get in or fall through. The tank should now
stay clean, if it doesn't the muck is in your water supply and your
drinking that no matter the source, tank or rising main.(*2)


*1: This is the hard bit, you can't (well I couldn't) suck 1/2"
hosepipe hard enough to get the siphon to run. So put copper and 6' of
hose into tank to fill it with water, hard kinked the hose underwater
to stop any back flow then pulled the hose out of the tank releasing
the kink below tank level.

*2: Birminghams water may be nice and soft from the Elan Valley but
it's filthy, presumably iron from 100 miles of 24" cast iron main...

If the mains are dirty install an in-line filter on the mains pipe.

On Fri, 25 Jun 2004 00:30:44 +0100, "IMM" wrote:



Or go main water system with combi or heat bank. Storage tanks are spurned
upon because of what you experienced. The Americans think we are mad using
them.


Have you seen American water heaters and electrical installations?


..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
news
On Fri, 25 Jun 2004 00:30:44 +0100, "IMM" wrote:


Or go main water system with combi or heat bank. Storage tanks are
spurned
upon because of what you experienced. The Americans think we are mad
using
them.

Have you seen American water heaters

Yes.

and electrical installations?

Off topic. Please focus.

Mmmm, never heard of Wayne Rooney, doesn't like the English flag or sport,
now can't focus. Interesting...

In article ,
IMM wrote:
Or go main water system with combi or heat bank. Storage tanks are
spurned upon because of what you experienced. The Americans think we
are mad using them.

You're right for once. The Americans do think we're mad using combis -
they heat their water by electricity.

--
*The early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:

You're right for once. The Americans do think we're mad using combis -
they heat their water by electricity.

Some do. Some use gas. Some even use oil.

Sheila

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
IMM wrote:
Or go main water system with combi or heat bank. Storage tanks are
spurned upon because of what you experienced. The Americans think we
are mad using them.

You're right for once. The Americans do think we're mad using combis -
they heat their water by electricity.

Then they must be the mad ones. Electricity prices when I lived there were
much higher than here, making electric heating was even less economic than
it is here.

Americans do seem a bit backward when it comes to appliances, like those
awful top loading washing machines with the clothes-shredding paddle.

We couldn't even buy an electric kettle - "Haven't you got a stove?" they
all said.

Bob

In article ,
Bob wrote:
You're right for once. The Americans do think we're mad using combis -
they heat their water by electricity.

Then they must be the mad ones. Electricity prices when I lived there
were much higher than here, making electric heating was even less
economic than it is here.

I suspect gas isn't as freely available as here - it's a much larger
country to pipe up.

Americans do seem a bit backward when it comes to appliances, like those
awful top loading washing machines with the clothes-shredding paddle.

We couldn't even buy an electric kettle - "Haven't you got a stove?"
they all said.

All down to the common 110 volts and the maximum current you can take from
an outlet - IIRC means about 1 KW element as opposed to our 3. Would take
forever to boil.

--
*Some people are alive only because it's illegal to kill them *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article , Dave Plowman (News)
writes
In article ,
Bob wrote:
You're right for once. The Americans do think we're mad using combis -
they heat their water by electricity.

Then they must be the mad ones. Electricity prices when I lived there
were much higher than here, making electric heating was even less
economic than it is here.

I suspect gas isn't as freely available as here - it's a much larger
country to pipe up.

Americans do seem a bit backward when it comes to appliances, like those
awful top loading washing machines with the clothes-shredding paddle.

We couldn't even buy an electric kettle - "Haven't you got a stove?"
they all said.

All down to the common 110 volts and the maximum current you can take from
an outlet - IIRC means about 1 KW element as opposed to our 3. Would take
forever to boil.


Don't they have some sort of split, like a centre tapped 110-0-110 volt
system in America now, so higher voltages can be used if required?...
--
Tony Sayer

Don't they have some sort of split, like a centre tapped 110-0-110 volt
system in America now, so higher voltages can be used if required?...

Yes, but there is rarely many 220V sockets available. Their appliances often
use hot water from the tap to avoid needing heating elements.

Christian.

In article ,
tony sayer wrote:
Don't they have some sort of split, like a centre tapped 110-0-110 volt
system in America now, so higher voltages can be used if required?...

Yes, but it didn't used to be common to have accessible sockets for this,
as you'd need for a kettle. Dunno about now - perhaps the US is heading
towards the 21st century electricity wise...

--
*Despite the cost of living, have you noticed how it remains so popular?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Bob wrote:
You're right for once. The Americans do think we're mad using
combis - they heat their water by electricity.

Then they must be the mad ones. Electricity prices when I lived
there were much higher than here, making electric heating was even
less economic than it is here.

I suspect gas isn't as freely available as here - it's a much larger
country to pipe up.


I had gas, but only for the cooker hob. The bill about was $6 per month, $5
of which was standing charge! The airconditioner on the other hand added
about $50 per month to the electricity bill in the summer! In fact, I'd say
electricity prices were about 3 times what I pay in England (and that was
before the California power crisis).

Americans do seem a bit backward when it comes to appliances, like
those awful top loading washing machines with the clothes-shredding
paddle.

We couldn't even buy an electric kettle - "Haven't you got a stove?"
they all said.

All down to the common 110 volts and the maximum current you can take
from an outlet - IIRC means about 1 KW element as opposed to our 3.
Would take forever to boil.

Well I did get one from Canada in the end - it worked just fine.

Bob

"Andy Hall" wrote
| "IMM" wrote:
| Or go main water system with combi or heat bank. Storage tanks are
| spurned upon because of what you experienced. The Americans think
| we are mad using them.
| Have you seen American water heaters and electrical installations?

I don't want to sound like IMM, but "having read a book on American
plumbing" it doesn't sound as though they have anything to be proud of in
that department either.

Owain

On Fri, 25 Jun 2004 10:34:11 +0100, tony sayer
wrote:




Don't they have some sort of split, like a centre tapped 110-0-110 volt
system in America now, so higher voltages can be used if required?...


Generally only for cookers, washers and tumble dryers.


..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

"S Viemeister" wrote in message
...
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:

You're right for once. The Americans do think we're mad using combis -
they heat their water by electricity.

Some do. Some use gas. Some even use oil.

Most is by gas with direct acting burners under unvented cylinders.
On-demand water heaters, as Americans call instant water heating, is
regarded as very eco.

"Bob" wrote in message
...
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
IMM wrote:
Or go main water system with combi or heat bank. Storage tanks are
spurned upon because of what you experienced. The Americans think we
are mad using them.

You're right for once. The Americans do think we're mad using combis -
they heat their water by electricity.

Then they must be the mad ones. Electricity prices when I lived there
were
much higher than here, making electric heating was even less economic than
it is here.

Americans do seem a bit backward when it comes to appliances, like those
awful top loading washing machines with the clothes-shredding paddle.

They have condensing forced air units. J&S do not, only an after market
conversion unit for a conventional flue.

We couldn't even buy an electric kettle - "Haven't you got a stove?" they
all said.

Bob

"tony sayer" wrote in message
...
In article , Dave Plowman (News)
writes
In article ,
Bob wrote:
You're right for once. The Americans do think we're mad using
combis -
they heat their water by electricity.

Then they must be the mad ones. Electricity prices when I lived there
were much higher than here, making electric heating was even less
economic than it is here.

I suspect gas isn't as freely available as here - it's a much larger
country to pipe up.

Gas is freely available in the USA

Americans do seem a bit backward when it comes to appliances, like
those
awful top loading washing machines with the clothes-shredding paddle.

We couldn't even buy an electric kettle - "Haven't you got a stove?"
they all said.

All down to the common 110 volts and the maximum current you can take
from
an outlet - IIRC means about 1 KW element as opposed to our 3. Would take
forever to boil.


Don't they have some sort of split, like a centre tapped 110-0-110 volt
system in America now, so higher voltages can be used if required?...
--
Tony Sayer

"Christian McArdle" wrote in message
t...
Don't they have some sort of split, like a centre tapped 110-0-110 volt
system in America now, so higher voltages can be used if required?...

Yes, but there is rarely many 220V sockets available. Their appliances
often
use hot water from the tap to avoid needing heating elements.

Which is more economical at times as if heater by cheap gas you save. Here
we have some appliances that only accept cold water, ten heat it by
expensive electricity.

"Bob" wrote in message
...
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Bob wrote:
You're right for once. The Americans do think we're mad using
combis - they heat their water by electricity.

Then they must be the mad ones. Electricity prices when I lived
there were much higher than here, making electric heating was even
less economic than it is here.

I suspect gas isn't as freely available as here - it's a much larger
country to pipe up.


I had gas, but only for the cooker hob. The bill about was $6 per month,
$5
of which was standing charge! The airconditioner on the other hand added
about $50 per month to the electricity bill in the summer! In fact, I'd
say
electricity prices were about 3 times what I pay in England (and that was
before the California power crisis).

Americans do seem a bit backward when it comes to appliances, like
those awful top loading washing machines with the clothes-shredding
paddle.

We couldn't even buy an electric kettle - "Haven't you got a stove?"
they all said.

All down to the common 110 volts and the maximum current you can take
from an outlet - IIRC means about 1 KW element as opposed to our 3.
Would take forever to boil.

Well I did get one from Canada in the end - it worked just fine.

So Canadians use kettles like us, and the Yanks do not and boil water on the
hob? Well as their hot water is from the mains they can use that and the
heating time in a small pan would,be quite fast to boiling. Most Americans
use coffeepots anyhow.

In article ,
IMM wrote:
Which is more economical at times as if heater by cheap gas you save.
Here we have some appliances that only accept cold water, ten heat it by
expensive electricity.

If you mean modern washing machines, by the time your favourite combis
were producing hot enough water, they'd be full.

Of course, with a decent storage system, you have to option to circulate
the hot water therefore minimizing the waiting time...

--
*Why are a wise man and a wise guy opposites? *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Liquorice" wrote in message
ll.com...
On Thu, 24 Jun 2004 19:32:52 +0100, Suz wrote:

the first thing I noticed was when I went to brush my teeth the
water was stinking.

Is this tap fed from the rising main or from the tank?

Water tank


We ran the water full blast for an hour and it improved but the next
morning it was manky again.

Was niff chlorine?

no just .. well... yuk. Hard to describe.


Is there any miracle thing I could put in to dissolve the murk at
the bottom and make it like sparkly new instead of something that
could preserve oak for 10000 years?

Turn of the water, get a hose pipe join it to a length of rigid tube
(15mm copper and a hose pipe tap connector works well), shape the end
of the pipe something like:

+-----------------
|
\
\
\
+--------------

Run the hose down into the bath or loo, and stick the other end cooper
pipe end in the tank. Start a siphon(*1) running then hoover the
bottom of the tank running the champered bit of pipe on the tank
bottom, the small oping lets water flow to flush the detritus down the
siphon and stops the suction sticking the pipe to the tank base... Go
gently so as not to stire it up and you should have hoovered all the
base before the tank is empty. Finally wipe out with clean cloths and
refill, there you are nice clean tank.

Now make sure that the tank is well lagged and has close fitting lid
with no holes for stuff to get in or fall through. The tank should now
stay clean, if it doesn't the muck is in your water supply and your
drinking that no matter the source, tank or rising main.(*2)


*1: This is the hard bit, you can't (well I couldn't) suck 1/2"
hosepipe hard enough to get the siphon to run. So put copper and 6' of
hose into tank to fill it with water, hard kinked the hose underwater
to stop any back flow then pulled the hose out of the tank releasing
the kink below tank level.

*2: Birminghams water may be nice and soft from the Elan Valley but
it's filthy, presumably iron from 100 miles of 24" cast iron main...

--
Cheers
Dave. pam is missing e-mail


Thanks for that Dave

On Fri, 25 Jun 2004 22:25:16 +0100, "IMM" wrote:


"Christian McArdle" wrote in message
et...
Don't they have some sort of split, like a centre tapped 110-0-110 volt
system in America now, so higher voltages can be used if required?...

Yes, but there is rarely many 220V sockets available. Their appliances
often
use hot water from the tap to avoid needing heating elements.

Which is more economical at times as if heater by cheap gas you save.

Are you related to Stanley Unwin at all, or Yoda perhaps?

Here
we have some appliances that only accept cold water, ten heat it by
expensive electricity.


What you neglect to mention is that European style washing machines
use a great deal less water than the large American top loaders and
detergents which for most fabrics only require a temperature in the
wash part of the program of 40-50 degrees.

Dishwashers also use a fraction of the water and detergents which
operate on a completely different principle.


..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

In article ,
Suz wrote:
Came back to our crappy electric shower and water tank and the first
thing I noticed was when I went to brush my teeth the water was
stinking. I have long feared what bugs lurk in the water tank. Sent
hubby to look in the tank for dead things but he couldn't see any. We
ran the water full blast for an hour and it improved but the next
morning it was manky again.

Is the tank covered properly? Modern types come with a lid.

However, as in the kitchen, drinking water should be off the mains direct,
and teeth cleaning water comes into this category.

It might be pretty easy to swap the basin cold feed from the tank to a
fresh one in a bathroom, since the cold feed to the tank is often routed
through there.

--
*A bicycle can't stand alone because it's two tyred.*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article , Andy Hall
writes

Have you seen American water heaters and electrical installations?

I have. My parent's bungalow in Florida has hot water supplied by a
massive cylinder in the garage. At a guess, it's ~6ft tall and ~3ft
dia, powered by a single 220v immersion element; not sure of the
wattage. Needless to say, the cylinder is unlagged and when starting
from cold, takes hours to produce any hot water. They now leave it
switched on all the time. The wiring to the element was also, um,
"interesting".

--
A. Top posters.
Q. What's the most annoying thing on Usenet?

In article , Dave Plowman (News)
writes

All down to the common 110 volts and the maximum current you can take from
an outlet - IIRC means about 1 KW element as opposed to our 3. Would take
forever to boil.

Mum and dad have one; it has a very small water capacity compared to UK
kettles, so does manage to boil in a reasonable time. Rather scary
thing though - no earth conection, single-insulated cable, no auto-
cutoff, very cheap and plasticky, etc.

--
A. Top posters.
Q. What's the most annoying thing on Usenet?

In article , Mike Tomlinson
writes
In article , Andy Hall
writes

Have you seen American water heaters and electrical installations?

I have. My parent's bungalow in Florida has hot water supplied by a
massive cylinder in the garage. At a guess, it's ~6ft tall and ~3ft
dia, powered by a single 220v immersion element; not sure of the
wattage. Needless to say, the cylinder is unlagged

Unlagged..no wonder global warming is becoming a problem....

and when starting
from cold, takes hours to produce any hot water. They now leave it
switched on all the time. The wiring to the element was also, um,
"interesting".


--
Tony Sayer

In article ,
tony sayer wrote:
I have. My parent's bungalow in Florida has hot water supplied by a
massive cylinder in the garage. At a guess, it's ~6ft tall and ~3ft
dia, powered by a single 220v immersion element; not sure of the
wattage. Needless to say, the cylinder is unlagged

Unlagged..no wonder global warming is becoming a problem....

Doesn't really make sense, since electricity isn't particularly cheap in
the US. Lagging the tank would pay back the cost very quickly.

--
*When cheese gets its picture taken, what does it say? *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article , Dave Plowman (News)
writes

Doesn't really make sense, since electricity isn't particularly cheap in
the US. Lagging the tank would pay back the cost very quickly.

You're welcome to try and convince my parents Don't forget it's hot
and humid in Florida, and the garage where the cylinder is doesn't have
air-con.

--
A. Top posters.
Q. What's the most annoying thing on Usenet?

Andy Hall wrote:


Which is more economical at times as if heater by cheap gas you save.


Are you related to Stanley Unwin at all, or Yoda perhaps?

;-)

in which case "These are not the newsgroups you are looking for..."
stage_direction Wave hand to accompany jedi mind trick /stage_direction



--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

Doesn't really make sense, since electricity isn't particularly cheap in
the US. Lagging the tank would pay back the cost very quickly.

But they wear energy wastage with a badge of pride. If you attempt to save
energy, you're a pinko commie liberal (and probably Muslim, too, nowadays).
All of which should result in you being tortured and detained without trial.

Christian.

In article , Christian
McArdle writes
Doesn't really make sense, since electricity isn't particularly cheap in
the US. Lagging the tank would pay back the cost very quickly.

But they wear energy wastage with a badge of pride. If you attempt to save
energy, you're a pinko commie liberal (and probably Muslim, too, nowadays).
All of which should result in you being tortured and detained without trial.

And, of course, its not just them having just returned from a mini trip
around the world its amazing to see the lack of worry about energy
consumption including still running around in gas guzzling giants,
whilst we're caning ourselves about saving energy nobody else in the
world gives a toss
--
David

On Mon, 28 Jun 2004 19:50:41 +0100,
wrote:

In article , Christian
McArdle writes
Doesn't really make sense, since electricity isn't particularly cheap in
the US. Lagging the tank would pay back the cost very quickly.

But they wear energy wastage with a badge of pride. If you attempt to save
energy, you're a pinko commie liberal (and probably Muslim, too, nowadays).
All of which should result in you being tortured and detained without trial.

And, of course, its not just them having just returned from a mini trip
around the world its amazing to see the lack of worry about energy
consumption including still running around in gas guzzling giants,
whilst we're caning ourselves about saving energy nobody else in the
world gives a toss

True, but much of the time it's just money down the drain. I'd rather
drive a smaller car and have access to a better health service
overall.

cheers,
Pete.