Andy Wade wrote:
doozer wrote:

Water at 95 degrees will make tea and soup just as well as water that
has boiled / is boiling. Actually boiling the water in this situation
is silly because you need to supply a tremendous amount of energy to
overcame the hear of vaporization (40.7 KJ/mol) for no gain.


Bzzzt, you only need to bring the water up to 100 deg., not boil it all
away. The energy needed to 'bring to the boil' is very little more than
you need to get to 95 deg.


The point I was trying to make was that you only need to make the water
(very) hot. Continuing to heat the water to its boiling point (as per
the scientific definition) is a waste of energy. In fact tea made with
water that hasn't been boiled tastes better according to many people so
you get a double reward.

In article , Dave Plowman (News)
writes
In article ,
Tim Downie wrote:
Would it be worth investing in a reasonably substantial inverter (and
where's the cheapest source for these) that can supply a standard kettle
or might a smaller one powering a 1kw caravan type kettle be more
reasonable/affordable.

Alternatively, are the any good 12V kettles or other electrically heated
pans worth considering. We will probably want to warm up soup as well
as make coffee/tea etc.

There's no point in inverting 12 volts to 230 to heat something. And a 2kW
invertor - needed for the smallest domestic kettle - would be *very*
expensive, and would draw the best part of 200 amps.

£250 for a 2000w from mds, lot of cuppa's to pay that back!

I'm not sure what 12 volt kettles are available, but be prepared for them
to be very slow in operation. Unless plugged direct to the battery. One
which works off the cigar lighter type take off is restricted to about 10
amps - so about 120 watts. A domestic kettle is as I said about 2000
watts, so it will take 20 times longer to boil the same amount of water.

Personally, I'd use thermos flasks.


--
David

Tim Downie wrote:

Well I've never broken a thermos so that aspect doesn't weigh heavily on my
mind. ;-)

Oh I have, once (deliberately) many years ago.

My little sister had got her gerbil stuck inside it...

David

Lobster wrote:
Tim Downie wrote:
Well I've never broken a thermos so that aspect doesn't weigh heavily
on my mind. ;-)
Oh I have, once (deliberately) many years ago.
My little sister had got her gerbil stuck inside it...

Thank you for sharing that with us.

I am not sure whether to worry more about the health of the gerbil or
the sanity of your sister.

Owain

On Sat, 5 Mar 2005 17:19:27 UTC, Owain
wrote:

Lobster wrote:
Tim Downie wrote:
Well I've never broken a thermos so that aspect doesn't weigh heavily
on my mind. ;-)
Oh I have, once (deliberately) many years ago.
My little sister had got her gerbil stuck inside it...

Thank you for sharing that with us.

I am not sure whether to worry more about the health of the gerbil or
the sanity of your sister.

I understand that there are worse places for a gerbil to get stuck...

--
Bob Eager
begin a new life...dump Windows!

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Tim Downie wrote:

Would it be worth investing in a reasonably substantial inverter (and
where's the cheapest source for these) that can supply a standard kettle
or might a smaller one powering a 1kw caravan type kettle be more
reasonable/affordable.


Alternatively, are the any good 12V kettles or other electrically heated
pans worth considering. We will probably want to warm up soup as well
as make coffee/tea etc.


There's no point in inverting 12 volts to 230 to heat something. And a 2kW
invertor - needed for the smallest domestic kettle - would be *very*
expensive, and would draw the best part of 200 amps.

I'm not sure what 12 volt kettles are available, but be prepared for them
to be very slow in operation. Unless plugged direct to the battery. One
which works off the cigar lighter type take off is restricted to about 10
amps - so about 120 watts. A domestic kettle is as I said about 2000
watts, so it will take 20 times longer to boil the same amount of water.

Personally, I'd use thermos flasks.

If the OP really goes off running in the midge-infested wastelands of
the north with long-suffering spouse in tow on a whim, without time to
fill a couple of flasks before he goes (though presumably time to take
some cold water and cold soup :-) then he could do with something more
than the standard wimpy cigar-lighter 12V immersion heater. How about
(a) fitting inside the car a socket of decent current rating wired back
to the alternator or battery terminals in heavy gauge wire (b) some sort
of resistive heater to connect up to this socket. If the heating element
were about 0.5 ohm, taking 30A at 14-15V (with the engine running)
giving a power of about 400W then you could boil a cup or two of water
in a reasonably short time (I'll leave calculation of the exact figures
as an exercise for the reader :-). Question is how to make the element?
What's the resistivity of stainless steel? Would a length of thin s/s
strip bent into a U shape do it? Or a coil of thin s/s tube? Or some
sort of closed end tube (like a test tube) with a heating element
inside, embedded in ceramic (how?) or maybe tube packed with carbon
making the resistance element (would it be low enough R?) and central
electrode connecting to it?

Come on you d-i-y-ers!

John Stumbles wrote in
:

Come on you d-i-y-ers!

Quicklime and water?

--
Rod

www.annalaurie.co.uk

Long mains extension lead and 3 kW kettle ?

Nick


"Rod Hewitt" wrote in message
...
John Stumbles wrote in
:

Come on you d-i-y-ers!

Quicklime and water?

--
Rod

www.annalaurie.co.uk

On Sat, 05 Mar 2005 01:07:09 +0000, in uk.d-i-y The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

Phil Addison wrote:

On Fri, 04 Mar 2005 14:49:31 +0000, in uk.d-i-y The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

You will be misted up and fugged up with H2O and CO2 long before the
stove starts to produce significant CO.

I have DONE THIS.

[snip]

How long does it take to get brain damage from CO?

Dickhead. At the concentrations produced by a camping stove, long after
the CO2 level so bloody high, and the H2O level is so bloody high, that
the ****ing little gas cylinder will be exahausted. And the car will be
dripping wet.

It teaks 5 mnutes to boil a kettle. Do the calcs yourself and work out
how much oxygen it uses.

Missed the point did you, tsk tsk.

Phil

In article , Bob Eager
writes
On Sat, 5 Mar 2005 17:19:27 UTC, Owain
wrote:

Lobster wrote:
Tim Downie wrote:
Well I've never broken a thermos so that aspect doesn't weigh heavily
on my mind. ;-)
Oh I have, once (deliberately) many years ago.
My little sister had got her gerbil stuck inside it...

Thank you for sharing that with us.

I am not sure whether to worry more about the health of the gerbil or
the sanity of your sister.

I understand that there are worse places for a gerbil to get stuck...

ahem... the term is felching, I believe
--
David

In message , John Stumbles
writes

bloody hell! - a 12V 750W 65A microwave:

http://www.caravanadditions.co.uk/ac..._Products.html

Let's see some numpty wire that up to a cigar lighter plug!
I take your 12V microwave and raise you one toasted sandwich maker...

http://www.cotswold-outdoor.com/Cat/60467

I'll get my anorak and bobble hat...

Andy

--
Andrew Sinclair http://www.smellycat.org

On Sat, 05 Mar 2005 01:07:09 +0000, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

Phil Addison wrote:

Failure to do either resulted in HUGE condensation. We even did that
too, for a quick cuppa parked up in torrential rain. We certainly didn't
die of CO posoning. It only takes a few minutes to boil a camping kettle.


How long does it take to get brain damage from CO?

Dickhead. At the concentrations produced by a camping stove, long after
the CO2 level so bloody high, and the H2O level is so bloody high, that
the ****ing little gas cylinder will be exahausted. And the car will be
dripping wet.

It teaks 5 mnutes to boil a kettle. Do the calcs yourself and work out
how much oxygen it uses.

Hi,

I think the problem is dozing off, and not waking up.

How much gas is needed to consume all the oxygen in a car to the point
where dangerous levels of CO are produced?

I'd guess that with a new largish picnic stove cylinder it's a strong
possibility.

cheers,
Pete.

Well I'm happy if my battery has enough power to start the car in this
weather...

Nicholas

--
Nicholas Buttle - Quality Joinery and Cabinet Making
http://www.nbjoinery.net


--
"Pete C" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 05 Mar 2005 01:07:09 +0000, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

Phil Addison wrote:

Failure to do either resulted in HUGE condensation. We even did that
too, for a quick cuppa parked up in torrential rain. We certainly didn't
die of CO posoning. It only takes a few minutes to boil a camping
kettle.


How long does it take to get brain damage from CO?

Dickhead. At the concentrations produced by a camping stove, long after
the CO2 level so bloody high, and the H2O level is so bloody high, that
the ****ing little gas cylinder will be exahausted. And the car will be
dripping wet.

It teaks 5 mnutes to boil a kettle. Do the calcs yourself and work out
how much oxygen it uses.

Hi,

I think the problem is dozing off, and not waking up.

How much gas is needed to consume all the oxygen in a car to the point
where dangerous levels of CO are produced?

I'd guess that with a new largish picnic stove cylinder it's a strong
possibility.

cheers,
Pete.

"Tim Downie" wrote in message
...
As part of her duties as my back-up team when I'm running a long distance
race, my wife may need to boil up stuff for my consumption in the car.

Because of the potential of severe midge attack, this may literally have
to
be done in the car with the windows closed (so no gas or other naked flame
suggestions please) .

Would it be worth investing in a reasonably substantial inverter (and
where's the cheapest source for these) that can supply a standard kettle
or
might a smaller one powering a 1kw caravan type kettle be more
reasonable/affordable.

Alternatively, are the any good 12V kettles or other electrically heated
pans worth considering. We will probably want to warm up soup as well as
make coffee/tea etc.

My car's a diesel people carrier with a reasonably substantial battery.
Would this cope with boiling a kettle every couple of hours say or should
I
invest in a second battery?

A bit late to join the fun, but:

(1) Esso stations are doing a deal on 1 litre SS flasks at the moment -
about £2.75 each IIRC.
If you are worried about the flasks cooling down then pack them in a
cardboard box with a blanket or similar for insulation.

(2) I have a Halfords electric kettle which will boil water eventually (not
quite as fast as an average camping stove - I tried it out in the Lake
District and was not overwhelmed).
I also didn't read the instructions properly (only use with the engine
running) and ended up flattening the battery and having to send for an RAC
man to give me a jump start (I didn't explainn how the battery came to be
flat).
This was about 10 years ago so I don't know if they still do the kettle,
however you have been given plenty of URLs for similar products.

(3) Assuming you only want the drink to be comfortably hot then the DIY
route would probably be to make an external heating coil out of 10mm copper
pipe with an insulating jacket and space in the middle for a ceramic mug,
then plumb this into the hot water feed for the car heater (which should
already come through the bulkhead). However the car kettle and thermos
flasks in an insulate box are both much easier and should be effective
enough.

(4) Be a caring and supportive partner for your long suffering wife and hire
a camper van so that her time spent supporting you can be relatively
comfortable. She gets a fridge, cooker (to heat your drinks and soup), midge
proofing, a bed, and loads of other comforts. With a bit of commecial acumen
she could also provide hot food and drink for other competitors and
contribute to the cost of the camper :-)

Cheers
Dave R

doozer wrote:

In fact tea made with
water that hasn't been boiled tastes better according to many people so
you get a double reward.

Have you got a source to substantiate such a statement?



--

Phil Addison wrote:


Now, just how DIY do you want this? There is a copious supply of piping
hot water in your vehicle cooling system. Surely someone/somewhere has
rigged up a means of routing that through a mini heating coil which
could be dunked in a steel flask heat up or keep hot the contents? I bet
google has some designs already!

Just look up "calorifier" - boats use them all the time for hot water
supplies.


--

In article , "No Spam"
says...
doozer wrote:

In fact tea made with
water that hasn't been boiled tastes better according to many people so
you get a double reward.

Have you got a source to substantiate such a statement?

You certainly should not overboil or reheat water to make tea -
something to do with oxygen in solution? I don't think actually
bringing it to the boil makes much difference. And you should of
course always pour the milk in the cup first, then the tea. Unless
you make it the Indian way by boiling everything in a saucepan for a
few minutes :-)

"Rob Morley" wrote in message
t...
In article , "No Spam"
says...
doozer wrote:

In fact tea made with
water that hasn't been boiled tastes better according to many people so
you get a double reward.

Have you got a source to substantiate such a statement?

You certainly should not overboil or reheat water to make tea -
something to do with oxygen in solution? I don't think actually
bringing it to the boil makes much difference. And you should of
course always pour the milk in the cup first, then the tea. Unless
you make it the Indian way by boiling everything in a saucepan for a
few minutes :-)

Or don't add anything, that's the way we drink tea.

Mary

"John Stumbles" wrote in message

Most mothers come already equipped with apparatus for dispensing baby
milk at the correct temperature. :-)


I'm glad somebody else said that!

I knew you'd like it, Mary!

(I think SWMBO would too: she's an ardent - maybe even militant - and
practicing La-Leche Leaguer)

Hurrah!

Mary

"Owain" wrote in message
...
Lobster wrote:
Tim Downie wrote:
Well I've never broken a thermos so that aspect doesn't weigh heavily on
my mind. ;-)
Oh I have, once (deliberately) many years ago.
My little sister had got her gerbil stuck inside it...

Thank you for sharing that with us.

I am not sure whether to worry more about the health of the gerbil or the
sanity of your sister.

I worry about Lobster's sanity. Sounds like a Good Thing to do with a gerbil
....

Mary

Owain

"Tim Downie" wrote in message
...
The Natural Philosopher wrote:

It is perfectly possible to use a small camping gaz stive in a closed
vehicle, provided you do it on a fireproof surface, and have the
vehicle fan running.

The floor of an estate vehicle is as good as it gets.

Hmm, good point. With the fan turned up full there's no shortage of
through draft. With the rear seats removed there's plenty of space to set
up a stove. Might reconsider that one.

Yes but crawling around in that space is hard on the knees.

Mary - with experience.


Thanks.

Tim

"Colin Blackburn" wrote in message

Yeah, but if she was that intelligent she'd be sat at home enjoying a nice
bottle of wine and a dvd

Or another man.

instead of driving around Scotland supporting you on some 24 hour
Highland race! ;-)

Or anything ...

Mary

Colin

"[news]" wrote in message ...

snip long list

stainless.steel.flasks.

Yes.

But he seems to be enjoying the thread to much to give in just yet. Long
distance runners have a lot of staying power ... :-)

Mary



RT

"John Stumbles" wrote in message

If the OP really goes off running in the midge-infested wastelands of the
north with long-suffering spouse in tow on a whim, without time to fill a
couple of flasks before he goes (though presumably time to take some cold
water and cold soup :-) then he could do with something more than the
standard wimpy cigar-lighter 12V immersion heater. How about (a) fitting
inside the car a socket of decent current rating wired back to the
alternator or battery terminals in heavy gauge wire (b) some sort of
resistive heater to connect up to this socket. If the heating element were
about 0.5 ohm, taking 30A at 14-15V (with the engine running) giving a
power of about 400W then you could boil a cup or two of water in a
reasonably short time (I'll leave calculation of the exact figures as an
exercise for the reader :-). Question is how to make the element? What's
the resistivity of stainless steel? Would a length of thin s/s strip bent
into a U shape do it? Or a coil of thin s/s tube? Or some sort of closed
end tube (like a test tube) with a heating element inside, embedded in
ceramic (how?) or maybe tube packed with carbon making the resistance
element (would it be low enough R?) and central electrode connecting to
it?

Come on you d-i-y-ers!

If Spouse saw this he'd whip his pencil from behind his ear and start making
marks on a dismantled cardboard box ... :-)

Mary

"David W.E. Roberts" wrote in message
...

....


(4) Be a caring and supportive partner for your long suffering wife and
hire
a camper van so that her time spent supporting you can be relatively
comfortable. She gets a fridge, cooker (to heat your drinks and soup),
midge
proofing, a bed, and loads of other comforts. With a bit of commecial
acumen
she could also provide hot food and drink for other competitors and
contribute to the cost of the camper :-)

Best idea yet :-)

Mary

Cheers
Dave R

Mary Fisher wrote:
"Owain" wrote in message
...

Lobster wrote:

Tim Downie wrote:

Well I've never broken a thermos so that aspect doesn't weigh heavily on
my mind. ;-)

Oh I have, once (deliberately) many years ago.
My little sister had got her gerbil stuck inside it...

Thank you for sharing that with us.

I am not sure whether to worry more about the health of the gerbil or the
sanity of your sister.

I worry about Lobster's sanity. Sounds like a Good Thing to do with a gerbil

Owain, you're welcome, and thank you Mary: really no need.

[OK then... Said gerbil (Horace by name, IIRC) was being exercised on
the kitchen table circa 1973, when Sis laid a thermos flask on its side.
Horace, when presented with a small orifice, duly did what gerbils do
best (ask Mr Gere) and promptly scrabbled inside. Having duly explored
the interior of the flask, he tried to climb out, however, due to the
geometry of the flask neck, he was unable to get his paws past his snout
and over the rim of the flask edge in order to gain enough purchase to
pull himself out. So he lay there, eyes and nose protruding from the
mouth of the flask, ignoring all our suggestions to stick his bum out of
the opening so we could pull him out by the tail, and all the while
getting hotter and hotter and hotter...

Had it been 30 years later I would doubtless have posted an "Urgent -
Gerbil crisis! Help!" post to uk.d-i-y. Even now, I still can't think
of a better solution. So when, after about an hour's incarceration,
Horace looked as if he was about to reach his sell-by date, drastic
action was clearly called for. I removed the plastic outer shell of the
flask and tentatively broke off the little glass 'nipple' which would
have been used to originally form the vacuum. BLAM! the flask instantly
imploded, and Horace flew up into the air, landing somewhat surprised on
a pile of a million tiny glass fragments. Fortunately he was entirely
undamaged by the experience - physically, anyway: not sure how it
affected his psyche.]

And yes, I've taken great care never to break a Thermos flask again.

David

"Lobster" wrote in message
news:sk0Xd.458$tV4.417@newsfe6-

snip wonderful account

drastic action was clearly called for. I removed the plastic outer shell
of the flask and tentatively broke off the little glass 'nipple' which
would have been used to originally form the vacuum. BLAM! the flask
instantly imploded,

GREAT! I've often wondered what would happen and even more often been
tempted to do it :-)

and Horace flew up into the air, landing somewhat surprised on a pile of a
million tiny glass fragments. Fortunately he was entirely undamaged by
the experience ...

Pity. Not my favourite animal. Does anyone know how they taste?

And yes, I've taken great care never to break a Thermos flask again.

Well the story was worth remembering, thanks :-)

Mary

Mary Fisher wrote:
Pity. Not my favourite animal.

Better than wasps any day though...
David

"Lobster" wrote in message
...
Mary Fisher wrote:
Pity. Not my favourite animal.

Better than wasps any day though...

Hrumph.

Mary

David

No Spam wrote:
Phil Addison wrote:



Now, just how DIY do you want this? There is a copious supply of piping
hot water in your vehicle cooling system. Surely someone/somewhere has
rigged up a means of routing that through a mini heating coil which
could be dunked in a steel flask heat up or keep hot the contents? I bet
google has some designs already!


Just look up "calorifier" - boats use them all the time for hot water
supplies.

On holiday in Salcombe this summer we came across a gorgeous steam
dinghy and it's owner (er, the boat was gorgeous ... you'd have to ask
SWMBO about the owner :-). The boat itself had apaprently been built by
apprentices at the Royal Naval College at Dartmouth just up the road
(that wet wavy road that surrounds the land) in the 50s or 60s IIRC. The
steam engine had been built by the owner in his shed (xpost to
uk.rec.sheds based on the general idea of the boiler of a model
engine and the cylinder of a torpedo boat (or was it the other way
around?) and featured a dispenser of hot water, tea for the making of!

Incidentally the owner/builder told us he was a teacher in Kingsbridge
(just up the estuary). Science, I think. Nice chap.

Bob Eager wrote:
On Sat, 5 Mar 2005 17:19:27 UTC, Owain
wrote:


Lobster wrote:

Tim Downie wrote:

Well I've never broken a thermos so that aspect doesn't weigh heavily
on my mind. ;-)

Oh I have, once (deliberately) many years ago.
My little sister had got her gerbil stuck inside it...

Thank you for sharing that with us.

I am not sure whether to worry more about the health of the gerbil or
the sanity of your sister.


I understand that there are worse places for a gerbil to get stuck...

Thought that was hamsters? Gerbils can chew through stuff pretty
efefctively ...

John Stumbles wrote:
On holiday in Salcombe this summer we came across a gorgeous steam
dinghy ... featured a dispenser of hot water, tea for the making of!

Fred Dibnah's traction engine (on TV earlier this evening, series
continues) had a tap for hot water. (And at a top speed of 12 mph, it
wouldn't be too taxing for the OP to run behind it.)

One would think that 100 years later the internal combustion engine
manufacturers would catch up with the idea of a cuppa on the move.

Owain

The message
from Owain contains these words:
John Stumbles wrote:
On holiday in Salcombe this summer we came across a gorgeous steam
dinghy ... featured a dispenser of hot water, tea for the making of!

Fred Dibnah's traction engine (on TV earlier this evening, series
continues) had a tap for hot water. (And at a top speed of 12 mph, it
wouldn't be too taxing for the OP to run behind it.)

One would think that 100 years later the internal combustion engine
manufacturers would catch up with the idea of a cuppa on the move.

Antifreeze adds *BODY*...

(I have a 12v immersion heater for use in the carriage, don't y'know.)

--
Rusty
Open the creaking gate to make a horrid.squeak, then lower the foobar.
http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hi-fi/

"Jaques d'Alltrades" wrote in message
k...
The message
from Owain contains these words:
John Stumbles wrote:
On holiday in Salcombe this summer we came across a gorgeous steam
dinghy ... featured a dispenser of hot water, tea for the making of!

Fred Dibnah's traction engine (on TV earlier this evening, series
continues) had a tap for hot water. (And at a top speed of 12 mph, it
wouldn't be too taxing for the OP to run behind it.)

One would think that 100 years later the internal combustion engine
manufacturers would catch up with the idea of a cuppa on the move.

Antifreeze adds *BODY*...

(I have a 12v immersion heater for use in the carriage, don't y'know.)


I suppose you all saw Hugh Fearnley-Whittingstall cook a Thames carp on his
Landrover manifold ?

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/AS...806609-5083863

The heating system of my My Peugeot 405 Diesel chucks out so much waste heat
(I prefer to drive with windows and sunroof open in the winter :-), I'm now
thinking maybe I should fit a heat exchanger in the system somewhere .....

Jeremy

In article ,
Owain wrote:
Fred Dibnah's traction engine (on TV earlier this evening, series
continues) had a tap for hot water. (And at a top speed of 12 mph, it
wouldn't be too taxing for the OP to run behind it.)

One would think that 100 years later the internal combustion engine
manufacturers would catch up with the idea of a cuppa on the move.

They're called service stations.:-)

Now Fred simply used fire hydrants. But he mentioned the problems
encountered when steam traffic was common.
We'll have to wait for later to discover what he does about fuel for the
journey. He mentioned getting some coal, but I can't imagine it being
possible to carry what's needed for the journey.

--
*Great groups from little icons grow *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Wed, 09 Mar 2005 09:24:38 +0000 (GMT), in uk.d-i-y "Dave Plowman
(News)" wrote:

In article ,
Owain wrote:
Fred Dibnah's traction engine (on TV earlier this evening, series
continues) had a tap for hot water. (And at a top speed of 12 mph, it
wouldn't be too taxing for the OP to run behind it.)

One would think that 100 years later the internal combustion engine
manufacturers would catch up with the idea of a cuppa on the move.

They're called service stations.:-)

Now Fred simply used fire hydrants. But he mentioned the problems
encountered when steam traffic was common.
We'll have to wait for later to discover what he does about fuel for the
journey. He mentioned getting some coal, but I can't imagine it being
possible to carry what's needed for the journey.

Sadly he died last November
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertain...io/3623347.stm

Phil
The uk.d-i-y FAQ is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk/
The Google uk.d-i-y archive is at http://tinyurl.com/65kwq
Remove NOSPAM from address to email me

In article ,
Phil Addison wrote:
Now Fred simply used fire hydrants. But he mentioned the problems
encountered when steam traffic was common. We'll have to wait for
later to discover what he does about fuel for the journey. He
mentioned getting some coal, but I can't imagine it being possible to
carry what's needed for the journey.

Sadly he died last November

Indeed. Of cancer. And earlier progs often showed him with a fag hanging
out of his mouth - even when talking.

--
*Don't byte off more than you can view *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Wed, 09 Mar 2005 18:20:32 +0000 (GMT), in uk.d-i-y "Dave Plowman
(News)" wrote:

In article ,
Phil Addison wrote:
Now Fred simply used fire hydrants. But he mentioned the problems
encountered when steam traffic was common. We'll have to wait for
later to discover what he does about fuel for the journey. He
mentioned getting some coal, but I can't imagine it being possible to
carry what's needed for the journey.

Sadly he died last November

Indeed. Of cancer. And earlier progs often showed him with a fag hanging
out of his mouth - even when talking.

Earlier progs? Seems we are not getting the full story over here.
However, please resist the urge to copy it across!!!

Phil
The uk.d-i-y FAQ is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk/
The Google uk.d-i-y archive is at http://tinyurl.com/65kwq
Remove NOSPAM from address to email me

In message , Phil Addison
writes
On Wed, 09 Mar 2005 18:20:32 +0000 (GMT), in uk.d-i-y "Dave Plowman
(News)" wrote:

In article ,
Phil Addison wrote:
Now Fred simply used fire hydrants. But he mentioned the problems
encountered when steam traffic was common. We'll have to wait for
later to discover what he does about fuel for the journey. He
mentioned getting some coal, but I can't imagine it being possible to
carry what's needed for the journey.

Sadly he died last November

Indeed. Of cancer. And earlier progs often showed him with a fag hanging
out of his mouth - even when talking.

Earlier progs? Seems we are not getting the full story over here.
However, please resist the urge to copy it across!!!

It doesn't actually say which type of cancer he died from


--
geoff

"raden" wrote in message
...

It doesn't actually say which type of cancer he died from

Smoking is indicated in most if not all types of cancer.

Mary


--
geoff