All going well, in a couple of months we will be the new owners of a
nice big old Victorian house.

Plenty of DIY :-)

Anyway, the electric's are in ok order AFAICT, however the installation
dates back to I think the 70's (maybe '60's) and at the very least will
be up for some upgrading. Rather than a big all in one go job I
anticipate a rolling program lasting a few years.

How does the Building control / inspection business work in this
situation, is there some sort of time limit within which a specific
works must be completed. when deciding how legal I want to be, I like to
know what I should be doing.....
--
Chris French, Leeds

On Wed, 16 Feb 2005 00:55:46 +0000, chris French wrote:

How does the Building control / inspection business work in this
situation, is there some sort of time limit within which a specific
works must be completed. when deciding how legal I want to be, I like to
know what I should be doing.....

Hi Chris,

Here's a copy of something I posted to the IEE forums, based on the same
question I put to two building control depts, one in Kent, the other in
East Sussex.

It's only a phone conversation, and it would remain to see how either LBA
worked out in practise (well, one of them, the other LBA would never get
to hear of anything I did, you'll see why

Copy of previous post to another forum made on 28 January 2005.

[To answer one of your points, is there a time limit, answer: No, starting
must be done withing a certain time, finishing has no limit).

Tim

*************
Going with the subject of DIY and Part P, I conferred with two LBA's
recently about the exact procedure for DIY electrical work.

Both wanted 117.50 pounds inc VAT for a building notice application.

One LBA seemed to be making a right hash of the whole thing. They want to
inspect at first fix and would only guarantee a visit with 2 days notice.
They did make the concession (as far as I understood from their reply)
that one could use conduit and replaster any wall chases, as long as they
could see the cable ends. I believe though that they implied that I
couldn't reinstate the circuit nor complete the connection of any fittings
until after the first inspection.

To their credit, the 2nd inspection would lead to a domestic installation
inspection certificate at no further cost. Effectively, if redecorating
several rooms seperately, and if I wished to complete any notifiable
electrical work upon finishing other DIY in each room (in order to make
the room habitable), I could need to make the same number of BNA's as
rooms (at the requisite cost!).

The second council seemed to be much more pragmatic.

It was suggested that a first fix inpection could be made with everything
complete and wired into the CU on the grounds that (especially if conduit
was used) it was trivial to remove the odd plate an inpect the
workmanship, cable type etc.

I would be required by them to get a Periodic Inspect Cert at the end
(apparantly from any competant + qualified person, which I took to mean
C&G 2391) at my cost and present that to them. At this stage they may make
a further inspection of their own and sign off the job.

Both said there was no time limit to completetion under a BNA, so upon
pushing the point with the second LBA, using the "redecorating several
rooms, one at a time" scenario above I drew the following conclusion:

If I am expecting to do 3 rooms this year plus other random bits, eg shed
supply, I could submit a BNA covering the lot and proceed piecemeal as is
usual for DIY. At the end of all the work, I call in an electrician to
inspect/certify and send in the paperwork to the LBA.

The latter case does lead to extra short term cost. As a conciensious
person I have no problem with a Period Inspection (I have a family and I'm
not reckless) and the approach taken by this council seemed to be the
least disruptive and least inconvenient to go along with. Effectively
cheaper in the long run if I could combine itty bitty jobs under one BNA.

There was some degree of vagueness in both discussions, partly because I
don't think either LBA has had time to settle down with the procedure yet.

My genuine view was that the latter LBA were trying very hard to make the
whole thing as undisruptive as possible for the DIYer (though I suppose it
would benefit equally a non-self certifying electrician undertaking a
series of jobs in one house over a medium period of time).

My final thoughts were that the first LBA's approach was more likely to
put people off declaring work whilst the second (if you can stomach the
117.50) was more likely to encourage people to declare and get a periodic
done.

Fortunately the house I'm moving to comes under the second LBA

Tim
*************

Tim S wrote:

My genuine view was that the latter LBA were trying very hard to make the
whole thing as undisruptive as possible for the DIYer (though I suppose it
would benefit equally a non-self certifying electrician undertaking a
series of jobs in one house over a medium period of time).

My final thoughts were that the first LBA's approach was more likely to
put people off declaring work whilst the second (if you can stomach the
117.50) was more likely to encourage people to declare and get a periodic
done.

So by extending that concept a little, the DIYers procedure henceforth
shall be:

1) Move into house

2) Issue notice to LA that you plan to rewire entire property piecemeal
and pay your 117.50

3) Carry out any works you fancy as and when you see fit over arbitary
time frame....

You are now back to the pre Part taking the P scheme!

4) If you later move out of the house, and if you have finished the
rewire, you notify them to get your cert, else declare it to the new
buyer as an ongoing work for the next owner to pick up.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
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|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
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\================================================= ================/

On Wed, 16 Feb 2005 20:57:24 +0000, John Rumm
wrote:


So by extending that concept a little, the DIYers procedure henceforth
shall be:

1) Move into house

2) Issue notice to LA that you plan to rewire entire property piecemeal
and pay your 117.50

3) Carry out any works you fancy as and when you see fit over arbitary
time frame....

You are now back to the pre Part taking the P scheme!

4) If you later move out of the house, and if you have finished the
rewire, you notify them to get your cert, else declare it to the new
buyer as an ongoing work for the next owner to pick up.

I see it all now.

These applications and papers could be a traded commodity. We
could have an exchange for them, an index, buy and sell futures and
derivatives......

The exchange could have those silly little boys with their red braces
and Porsches and cocaine habits running around and throwing tantra and
cutting plastic pipes with hacksaws.

A senior government minister could be caught doing insider trading,
tough it out but eventually have to resign.




--

..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

On Wed, 16 Feb 2005 20:57:24 +0000, John Rumm wrote:

Tim S wrote:

My genuine view was that the latter LBA were trying very hard to make
the whole thing as undisruptive as possible for the DIYer (though I
suppose it would benefit equally a non-self certifying electrician
undertaking a series of jobs in one house over a medium period of time).

My final thoughts were that the first LBA's approach was more likely to
put people off declaring work whilst the second (if you can stomach the
117.50) was more likely to encourage people to declare and get a
periodic done.

So by extending that concept a little, the DIYers procedure henceforth
shall be:

1) Move into house

2) Issue notice to LA that you plan to rewire entire property piecemeal
and pay your 117.50

Don't forget to include vague plans of garden/shed wiring...

3) Carry out any works you fancy as and when you see fit over arbitary
time frame....

You are now back to the pre Part taking the P scheme!

4) If you later move out of the house, and if you have finished the
rewire, you notify them to get your cert, else declare it to the new buyer
as an ongoing work for the next owner to pick up.

Exactly what I concluded. But only with one LBA you will note. The other,
if you did that, you would have no working electrics at all.

What I was wondering would happen if I got bored, called in the period
inspection and told the LBA I'd cancelled a number of items on the BNA
'cos I couldn't be bothered...

Tim

"John Rumm" wrote in message
...
Tim S wrote:

My genuine view was that the latter LBA were trying very hard to make
the
whole thing as undisruptive as possible for the DIYer (though I suppose
it
would benefit equally a non-self certifying electrician undertaking a
series of jobs in one house over a medium period of time).

My final thoughts were that the first LBA's approach was more likely to
put people off declaring work whilst the second (if you can stomach the
117.50) was more likely to encourage people to declare and get a
periodic
done.

So by extending that concept a little, the DIYers procedure henceforth
shall be:

1) Move into house

2) Issue notice to LA that you plan to rewire entire property piecemeal
and pay your 117.50

3) Carry out any works you fancy as and when you see fit over arbitary
time frame....


But that's no different to other renovation work. I put in for a huge raft
of work over two years ago (with no mention of electrics of course) and am
still going strong.

Andy Hall wrote:


I see it all now.

These applications and papers could be a traded commodity. We
could have an exchange for them, an index, buy and sell futures and
derivatives......

The exchange could have those silly little boys with their red braces
and Porsches and cocaine habits running around and throwing tantra and
cutting plastic pipes with hacksaws.

You don't mean instead of:

http://www.internode.co.uk/temp/imm.jpg

We would have:

http://www.internode.co.uk/temp/dr-yuppy.jpg



--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Wed, 16 Feb 2005 22:40:34 +0000, Mike wrote:


"John Rumm" wrote in message
...

3) Carry out any works you fancy as and when you see fit over arbitary
time frame....


But that's no different to other renovation work. I put in for a huge
raft of work over two years ago (with no mention of electrics of course)
and am still going strong.

So your LBA don't mind doing multiple "first fix" inspections?

Tim

Tim S wrote:
On Wed, 16 Feb 2005 22:40:34 +0000, Mike wrote:

But that's no different to other renovation work. I put in for a huge
raft of work over two years ago (with no mention of electrics of course)
and am still going strong.

So your LBA don't mind doing multiple "first fix" inspections?

I had mine out, oh, must have been about 8 times during 12 months, for
an application costing 117 quid. Once or twice it was just for visiting
to clarify some query or other which I phoned up about. They were
perfectly happy about it.

David

I would be required by them to get a Periodic Inspect Cert at the end
(apparantly from any competant + qualified person, which I took to mean

C&G 2391) at my cost and present that to them. At this stage they may
make
a further inspection of their own and sign off the job.

This is the bit I don't like. If you ask me this is the a form of
double taxation. Surely if the Local Authority is going to have
responsibility for policing Part P, then the fee paid should include
them doing the testing. If you can find a qualified person to do this
inspection at your expense, how much is this going to cost?

In one of the many earlier posts on the subject, I think I had
predicted this happening.

Have we got a leg to stand on here?

On Thu, 17 Feb 2005 06:27:14 -0800, deckertim wrote:

I would be required by them to get a Periodic Inspect Cert at the end
(apparantly from any competant + qualified person, which I took to mean

C&G 2391) at my cost and present that to them. At this stage they may
make
a further inspection of their own and sign off the job.

This is the bit I don't like. If you ask me this is the a form of
double taxation. Surely if the Local Authority is going to have
responsibility for policing Part P, then the fee paid should include
them doing the testing. If you can find a qualified person to do this
inspection at your expense, how much is this going to cost?

In one of the many earlier posts on the subject, I think I had
predicted this happening.

Have we got a leg to stand on here?

Hi

I see you quoted me, but forgot to actually "quote"...

Well, I was thinking exactly that. One could argue exactly as you say and
state that the law requires me/you to notify BCO via an BNA and tell them
to do their job rather than expecting us to do it for them. Don;t know the
ins and outs of the law, but whatever.

Having said that, the BCO I spoke to was generally so helpful and wanted
to convey the impression that they didn't want to get in the way of honest
DIY that I would go along with it just to keep things that way.

Happy smiling helpful BCOs aren't a universal constant so I'm happy to
bend if it encourages them to be that way. Seems he's bending in my
direction as much as he can anyway, so quid pro quo.

That said, if it turns out to change when I have to do this for real, then
I'll be changing my stance.

Anyway, at least I get a Periodic Cert in my hand done by someone of my
choosing rather than a grumpy old council worker, or contractor who's
milking the system and doesn't give a rats.

My theory anyway.

Tim

wrote:
I would be required by them to get a Periodic Inspect Cert at the end
(apparantly from any competant + qualified person, which I took to mean

C&G 2391) at my cost and present that to them. At this stage they may
make
a further inspection of their own and sign off the job.

This is the bit I don't like. If you ask me this is the a form of
double taxation. Surely if the Local Authority is going to have
responsibility for policing Part P, then the fee paid should include
them doing the testing. If you can find a qualified person to do this
inspection at your expense, how much is this going to cost?

I've paid about 90 quid for the PIC in the past. So, about doubles the
effect Building Notice cost then?

David

"Lobster" wrote in message
...

I've paid about 90 quid for the PIC in the past. So, about doubles the
effect Building Notice cost then?

David

It is probably more than 90 quid now - due to the shortages of electricians
created by part p

James


---
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"Tim S" wrote in message
news
On Wed, 16 Feb 2005 22:40:34 +0000, Mike wrote:


"John Rumm" wrote in message
...

3) Carry out any works you fancy as and when you see fit over arbitary
time frame....


But that's no different to other renovation work. I put in for a huge
raft of work over two years ago (with no mention of electrics of course)
and am still going strong.

So your LBA don't mind doing multiple "first fix" inspections?


That's his problem. 'First fix' is something for pros. This is a personal
renovation and so jobs are done one at a time.

wrote in message
oups.com...
I would be required by them to get a Periodic Inspect Cert at the end
(apparantly from any competant + qualified person, which I took to mean


You don't have to get anybody in. If they want to that's up to the LBA.

Just checked on my local BCO site. Medway.gov.uk

You can do the work and arrange for a test by a competent registered
person. But not surprinsingly they warn you that you will have
difficult finding anyone prepared to do this.

You can do the work yourself, but you must submit full plans. You then
pay an additional fee (unspecified) on top of the standard BC fee and
they will arrange for someone to do the test.

This is a rip off.

What do other councils say?

On Thu, 17 Feb 2005 15:05:57 -0800, deckertim wrote:

Just checked on my local BCO site. Medway.gov.uk

You can do the work and arrange for a test by a competent registered
person. But not surprinsingly they warn you that you will have
difficult finding anyone prepared to do this.

I fail to see why - never been a problem to get a periodic done before.
A periodic is a periodic is a periodic. It is not a case of finding a
sparky to prove to the LBA that your wiring is correct and won't burn the
house down. It *is* a case of a sparky running a set of prescribed tests
and prescribed observations and noting the results on a prescribed form.
The council can't sue him unless his report was fiddled (a total lie
for a brown envelope) or he conducted the test incompetantly. Same as
always.

You can do the work yourself, but you must submit full plans. You then
pay an additional fee (unspecified) on top of the standard BC fee and
they will arrange for someone to do the test.

This is a rip off.

Yep. There was never any stated requirement to do anything other than
submit a Building Notice Application. Full plans don't come into it.


What do other councils say?

Check back a few days for my post on this - but essentially Tunbridge
Wells LBA will do the test included in the BNA fee (100+VAT). But they
apprear to be less than helpful about how the work is to be undertaken.

wrote in message
oups.com...
Just checked on my local BCO site. Medway.gov.uk

You can do the work and arrange for a test by a competent registered
person. But not surprinsingly they warn you that you will have
difficult finding anyone prepared to do this.

You can do the work yourself, but you must submit full plans. You then
pay an additional fee (unspecified) on top of the standard BC fee and
they will arrange for someone to do the test.

This is a rip off.

And illegal. Building control are required to pay for such services out of
the fee you pay them.

"John Rumm" wrote in message
...
Andy Hall wrote:


I see it all now.

These applications and papers could be a traded commodity. We
could have an exchange for them, an index, buy and sell futures and
derivatives......

The exchange could have those silly little boys with their red braces
and Porsches and cocaine habits running around and throwing tantra and
cutting plastic pipes with hacksaws.

You don't mean instead of:

http://www.internode.co.uk/temp/imm.jpg

We would have:

http://www.internode.co.uk/temp/dr-yuppy.jpg

This is disgusting. This is racist.



_________________________________________
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"Tim S" wrote in message
news
On Wed, 16 Feb 2005 00:55:46 +0000, chris French wrote:

How does the Building control / inspection business work in this
situation, is there some sort of time limit within which a specific
works must be completed. when deciding how legal I want to be, I like to
know what I should be doing.....

Hi Chris,

Here's a copy of something I posted to the IEE forums, based on the same
question I put to two building control depts, one in Kent, the other in
East Sussex.

It's only a phone conversation, and it would remain to see how either LBA
worked out in practise (well, one of them, the other LBA would never get
to hear of anything I did, you'll see why

Copy of previous post to another forum made on 28 January 2005.

[To answer one of your points, is there a time limit, answer: No, starting
must be done withing a certain time, finishing has no limit).

Tim

*************
Going with the subject of DIY and Part P, I conferred with two LBA's
recently about the exact procedure for DIY electrical work.

Both wanted 117.50 pounds inc VAT for a building notice application.

One LBA seemed to be making a right hash of the whole thing. They want to
inspect at first fix and would only guarantee a visit with 2 days notice.
They did make the concession (as far as I understood from their reply)
that one could use conduit and replaster any wall chases, as long as they
could see the cable ends. I believe though that they implied that I
couldn't reinstate the circuit nor complete the connection of any fittings
until after the first inspection.

To their credit, the 2nd inspection would lead to a domestic installation
inspection certificate at no further cost. Effectively, if redecorating
several rooms seperately, and if I wished to complete any notifiable
electrical work upon finishing other DIY in each room (in order to make
the room habitable), I could need to make the same number of BNA's as
rooms (at the requisite cost!).

The second council seemed to be much more pragmatic.

It was suggested that a first fix inpection could be made with everything
complete and wired into the CU on the grounds that (especially if conduit
was used) it was trivial to remove the odd plate an inpect the
workmanship, cable type etc.

I would be required by them to get a Periodic Inspect Cert at the end
(apparantly from any competant + qualified person, which I took to mean
C&G 2391) at my cost and present that to them. At this stage they may make
a further inspection of their own and sign off the job.

Both said there was no time limit to completetion under a BNA, so upon
pushing the point with the second LBA, using the "redecorating several
rooms, one at a time" scenario above I drew the following conclusion:

If I am expecting to do 3 rooms this year plus other random bits, eg shed
supply, I could submit a BNA covering the lot and proceed piecemeal as is
usual for DIY. At the end of all the work, I call in an electrician to
inspect/certify and send in the paperwork to the LBA.

The latter case does lead to extra short term cost. As a conciensious
person I have no problem with a Period Inspection (I have a family and I'm
not reckless) and the approach taken by this council seemed to be the
least disruptive and least inconvenient to go along with. Effectively
cheaper in the long run if I could combine itty bitty jobs under one BNA.

There was some degree of vagueness in both discussions, partly because I
don't think either LBA has had time to settle down with the procedure yet.

My genuine view was that the latter LBA were trying very hard to make the
whole thing as undisruptive as possible for the DIYer (though I suppose it
would benefit equally a non-self certifying electrician undertaking a
series of jobs in one house over a medium period of time).

My final thoughts were that the first LBA's approach was more likely to
put people off declaring work whilst the second (if you can stomach the
117.50) was more likely to encourage people to declare and get a periodic
done.

Fortunately the house I'm moving to comes under the second LBA

Tim
*************

Can a DIYer do all the electrics, in kitchens, etc, as long as the LBA are
notified in advance, paid, check and issue a certificate?



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On Thu, 17 Feb 2005 23:58:53 +0000, Doctor Evil wrote:


Can a DIYer do all the electrics, in kitchens, etc, as long as the LBA are
notified in advance, paid, check and issue a certificate?

Yes.

Kitchens (and bathrooms, areas outside of the equipotential zone) are only
"special" with regard to exempted works. eg: you may add a spur to an
existing ring main without telling anyone, but not in a kitchen or
bathroom or (presumably) your detached shed (I am unclear on the last
point).

You may, however, with the appropriate planning permission and building
control, knock down your house, and build a completely new one, make
the foundations (with cellar), fit the electrics, gas,
structural members, roof etc all by your own fair hand. Many people do
varying degrees of this all the time.

Theoretically, I suppose you could build a skyscraper as a DIY job,
but the PP would be tricky (Norman Foster has enough trouble) and the
building control people probably want to see calculations slightly more
sophisticated than the printout of a "Superbeam" screenshot ;-

Tim

On Thu, 17 Feb 2005 23:56:41 -0000, "Doctor Evil"
strung together this:

http://www.internode.co.uk/temp/imm.jpg

We would have:

http://www.internode.co.uk/temp/dr-yuppy.jpg

This is disgusting. This is racist.

This is a complete pillock.
--

SJW
Please reply to group or use 'usenet' in email subject

"Lurch" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 17 Feb 2005 23:56:41 -0000, "Doctor Evil"
strung together this:

http://www.internode.co.uk/temp/imm.jpg

We would have:

http://www.internode.co.uk/temp/dr-yuppy.jpg

This is disgusting. This is racist.

This is a complete pillock.

A racist comment too.


_________________________________________
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"Tim S" wrote in message
news
On Thu, 17 Feb 2005 23:58:53 +0000, Doctor Evil wrote:


Can a DIYer do all the electrics, in kitchens, etc, as long as the LBA
are
notified in advance, paid, check and issue a certificate?

Yes.

Kitchens (and bathrooms, areas outside of the equipotential zone) are only
"special" with regard to exempted works. eg: you may add a spur to an
existing ring main without telling anyone, but not in a kitchen or
bathroom or (presumably) your detached shed (I am unclear on the last
point).

Many DIYers have fitted unvented cylinders and the BCO has signed it off.
So, you can do an unvented cylidner as long as you inform the LBA and pay
the fee.

You may, however, with the appropriate planning permission and building
control, knock down your house, and build a completely new one, make
the foundations (with cellar), fit the electrics, gas,
structural members, roof etc all by your own fair hand. Many people do
varying degrees of this all the time.

Theoretically, I suppose you could build a skyscraper as a DIY job,
but the PP would be tricky (Norman Foster has enough trouble) and the
building control people probably want to see calculations slightly more
sophisticated than the printout of a "Superbeam" screenshot ;-

Tim


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Doctor Evil wrote:

This is disgusting. This is racist.

How exactly?


--
Cheers,

John.

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On Thu, 17 Feb 2005 23:56:41 -0000, "Doctor Evil"
wrote:


"John Rumm" wrote in message
...
Andy Hall wrote:


I see it all now.

These applications and papers could be a traded commodity. We
could have an exchange for them, an index, buy and sell futures and
derivatives......

The exchange could have those silly little boys with their red braces
and Porsches and cocaine habits running around and throwing tantra and
cutting plastic pipes with hacksaws.

You don't mean instead of:

http://www.internode.co.uk/temp/imm.jpg

We would have:

http://www.internode.co.uk/temp/dr-yuppy.jpg

This is disgusting. This is racist.

No it isn't - it's completely inclusive.

There was even the earlier picture of your good self in troll guise.

Nobody has been excluded.



--

..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

On Thu, 17 Feb 2005 23:58:53 -0000, "Doctor Evil"
wrote:



Can a DIYer do all the electrics, in kitchens, etc, as long as the LBA are
notified in advance, paid, check and issue a certificate?

Yes, as long as they don't use a hacksaw to cut and strip the cable.



--

..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

"Mike" wrote in message
...

wrote in message
oups.com...
Just checked on my local BCO site. Medway.gov.uk

You can do the work and arrange for a test by a competent registered
person. But not surprinsingly they warn you that you will have
difficult finding anyone prepared to do this.

You can do the work yourself, but you must submit full plans. You then
pay an additional fee (unspecified) on top of the standard BC fee and
they will arrange for someone to do the test.

This is a rip off.

And illegal. Building control are required to pay for such services out
of
the fee you pay them.


If it is illegal is there any action which can be taken against this "abuse
of power"? I guess it results from local authorities trying to get
themselves out of hole - which was not of their making.

The above site is unclear, but it appears you need to pay a minimum of 117
GBP (inc VAT) for a building notice *and also* pay an unspecified amount
for an inspection, either by an electrician whom you appoint or by the
authorities agent. The latter appears to make at least two visits so it
will not be cheap.

For piecemeal work spread over a period of time, it would almost certainly
appear to be cheaper just to seek retrospective approval at the end - so
that everything is rolled up into one job. Of course if this involves
exposing the wiring this may result in disruption.

It is interesting to note the above sites points to the following document
http://www.medway.gov.uk/odpm_breg_033485.pdf in which it highlights the
following issues if you do not follow building control procedures:

1. The installation might be unsafe
2. You will have no record of work done
3. You may have difficulty selling house
4. Building control may insist you put right faulty work.

1 and 4 are a non issue for a competent DIYer. The importance of 2 is
unclear. Which just leave 3. If you have no intention of selling your home
this is again irrelevant - if you do retrospective permission may be the
easiest (and cheapest) option.

James






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On Fri, 18 Feb 2005 07:53:06 +0000, James wrote:

If it is illegal is there any action which can be taken against this "abuse
of power"? I guess it results from local authorities trying to get
themselves out of hole - which was not of their making.

The above site is unclear, but it appears you need to pay a minimum of 117
GBP (inc VAT) for a building notice *and also* pay an unspecified amount
for an inspection, either by an electrician whom you appoint or by the
authorities agent. The latter appears to make at least two visits so it
will not be cheap.

For piecemeal work spread over a period of time, it would almost certainly
appear to be cheaper just to seek retrospective approval at the end - so
that everything is rolled up into one job. Of course if this involves
exposing the wiring this may result in disruption.

That's one option. Or, as I've mentioned before, put in a long term BNA
covering everything you could ever conceivably want to do, if the LBA
doesn't make it difficult to do so.


It is interesting to note the above sites points to the following document
http://www.medway.gov.uk/odpm_breg_033485.pdf in which it highlights the
following issues if you do not follow building control procedures:

1. The installation might be unsafe
2. You will have no record of work done
3. You may have difficulty selling house
4. Building control may insist you put right faulty work.

1 and 4 are a non issue for a competent DIYer. The importance of 2 is
unclear. Which just leave 3. If you have no intention of selling your home
this is again irrelevant - if you do retrospective permission may be the
easiest (and cheapest) option.

Point 2) is irrelevant. New builds are supposed to come with all sorts of
certs and plans. Don't always.

Point 3) is scaremongering - I'm fairly sure. The LBA have 6 months to
take action over evasion of building regs, according to a book I read
recently. After that, I think the actions open to them are limited (none?).
Technically, it's only an "issue" if you lie about it. Tell the buyer you
did work, didn't declare it, and the time for LBA actions has lapsed.
Invite them to inspect the work in detail.

Don't think it will make any difference whatsoever. It isn't much
different to selling a car with no MOT. Caveat emptor...

Tim

On Fri, 18 Feb 2005 07:40:00 +0000, Andy Hall wrote:

On Thu, 17 Feb 2005 23:58:53 -0000, "Doctor Evil"
wrote:



Can a DIYer do all the electrics, in kitchens, etc, as long as the LBA are
notified in advance, paid, check and issue a certificate?

Yes, as long as they don't use a hacksaw to cut and strip the cable.

What about teeth...?

On Thu, 17 Feb 2005 23:37:04 -0000, "Mike" wrote:


wrote in message
roups.com...
Just checked on my local BCO site. Medway.gov.uk

You can do the work and arrange for a test by a competent registered
person. But not surprinsingly they warn you that you will have
difficult finding anyone prepared to do this.

You can do the work yourself, but you must submit full plans. You then
pay an additional fee (unspecified) on top of the standard BC fee and
they will arrange for someone to do the test.

This is a rip off.

And illegal. Building control are required to pay for such services out of
the fee you pay them.


How long before they hike their fees once they figure this out....?

On Fri, 18 Feb 2005 07:53:06 -0000, "James" wrote:


"Mike" wrote in message
...

wrote in message
oups.com...
Just checked on my local BCO site. Medway.gov.uk

You can do the work and arrange for a test by a competent registered
person. But not surprinsingly they warn you that you will have
difficult finding anyone prepared to do this.

You can do the work yourself, but you must submit full plans. You then
pay an additional fee (unspecified) on top of the standard BC fee and
they will arrange for someone to do the test.

This is a rip off.

And illegal. Building control are required to pay for such services out
of
the fee you pay them.


If it is illegal is there any action which can be taken against this "abuse
of power"? I guess it results from local authorities trying to get
themselves out of hole - which was not of their making.

You " Here is my notice and fee"
Them " Pay us more, or someone else more for a cert"
You " No. I have already done what the law requires, now do your job & give me my approval"

Who do you complain to if BC don't do their job...?
Can you sue them if their refusal to do their job costs you money (e.g. delays house sale) ?

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
news
On Thu, 17 Feb 2005 23:56:41 -0000, "Doctor Evil"
wrote:


"John Rumm" wrote in message
...
Andy Hall wrote:


I see it all now.

These applications and papers could be a traded commodity. We
could have an exchange for them, an index, buy and sell futures and
derivatives......

The exchange could have those silly little boys with their red braces
and Porsches and cocaine habits running around and throwing tantra
and
cutting plastic pipes with hacksaws.

You don't mean instead of:

http://www.internode.co.uk/temp/imm.jpg

We would have:

http://www.internode.co.uk/temp/dr-yuppy.jpg

This is disgusting. This is racist.

No it isn't -

Frank, it is. It is in fact, exceptionally low.


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"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 17 Feb 2005 23:58:53 -0000, "Doctor Evil"
wrote:



Can a DIYer do all the electrics, in kitchens, etc, as long as the LBA
are
notified in advance, paid, check and issue a certificate?

Yes, as long as they don't use a hacksaw to cut and strip the cable.

Frank, the LBA would cut your wires with a hacksaw? My oh my!



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Doctor Evil wrote:

it is. It is in fact, exceptionally low.

Explain?


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

"Mike Harrison" wrote
| You " Here is my notice and fee"
| Them " Pay us more, or someone else more for a cert"
| You " No. I have already done what the law requires, now
| do your job & give me my approval"
| Who do you complain to if BC don't do their job...?
| Can you sue them if their refusal to do their job costs
| you money (e.g. delays house sale) ?

You would need to take legal advice on this, but in general principle I
think you would serve a Writ of Mandamus on them, that is a court order like
an injunction compelling them to carry out their lawful obligations.

Owain

"Mike Harrison" wrote in message
...

If it is illegal is there any action which can be taken against this
"abuse
of power"? I guess it results from local authorities trying to get
themselves out of hole - which was not of their making.

You " Here is my notice and fee"
Them " Pay us more, or someone else more for a cert"
You " No. I have already done what the law requires, now do your job &
give me my approval"

Who do you complain to if BC don't do their job...?

A judge.

Many of whom will happily award damages and costs against building control
as they delayed his extension or holiday home a few years ago :-)

"Mike Harrison" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 17 Feb 2005 23:37:04 -0000, "Mike" wrote:


wrote in message
roups.com...
Just checked on my local BCO site. Medway.gov.uk

You can do the work and arrange for a test by a competent registered
person. But not surprinsingly they warn you that you will have
difficult finding anyone prepared to do this.

You can do the work yourself, but you must submit full plans. You then
pay an additional fee (unspecified) on top of the standard BC fee and
they will arrange for someone to do the test.

This is a rip off.

And illegal. Building control are required to pay for such services out
of
the fee you pay them.


How long before they hike their fees once they figure this out....?

Fixed by ODPM. They have just raised the price for planning though so I
expect something is in the pipeline but it's done by cost of work and
electrics are relatively cheap - labour is a bit higher but components are
almost free in the scheme of things.

Owain wrote:
"Mike Harrison" wrote

| Who do you complain to if BC don't do their job...?
| Can you sue them if their refusal to do their job costs
| you money (e.g. delays house sale) ?

You would need to take legal advice on this, but in general principle I
think you would serve a Writ of Mandamus on them, that is a court order like
an injunction compelling them to carry out their lawful obligations.

And then you'd better hope you never have a need to submit another
building notice to the same LA again...

David