I'm planning to install my own wired alarm system. I plan to buy the
components to exactly suit my needs rather than buy a 'turnkey'
system.

Can anyone recommend an on-line supplier as an alternative to TLC and
CPC ?

Regarding control panel and PIRs, are there any brands to avoid, or
any brands that are particularly good. (For good read reliable).

Appreciate any feedback, particularly if there are any alrm engineers
out there.

Thanks

Mark

TLC will present better value than other name for a semi pro product.
http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Main_Ind...s_1/index.html

In article ,
Mark wrote:
Can anyone recommend an on-line supplier as an alternative to TLC and
CPC ?

Why?

--
*Pride is what we have. Vanity is what others have.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Fri, 28 Jan 2005 13:44:35 +0000, Mark strung
together this:


I'm planning to install my own wired alarm system. I plan to buy the
components to exactly suit my needs rather than buy a 'turnkey'
system.

Can anyone recommend an on-line supplier as an alternative to TLC and
CPC ?

You may as well go with TLC, the ADE panels are pretty good for DIY
installs as the programming is a piece of ****.

Regarding control panel and PIRs, are there any brands to avoid, or
any brands that are particularly good. (For good read reliable).

Well, see above!

Appreciate any feedback, particularly if there are any alrm engineers
out there.

Personally, I wouldn't advise anyone to fit their own alarm as there's
more to designing, fitting and commisioning an effective system than
most people think.
--

SJW
Please reply to group or use 'usenet' in email subject

In article ,
Lurch wrote:
Personally, I wouldn't advise anyone to fit their own alarm as there's
more to designing, fitting and commisioning an effective system than
most people think.

Well, now's your chance to give some tips, as it's hardly likely to take
the bread out of your mouth. ;-)

--
*If you lived in your car, you'd be home by now *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Mark writes:

I'm planning to install my own wired alarm system. I plan to buy the
components to exactly suit my needs rather than buy a 'turnkey'
system.

Can anyone recommend an on-line supplier as an alternative to TLC and
CPC ?

What's wrong with them?

Regarding control panel and PIRs, are there any brands to avoid, or
any brands that are particularly good. (For good read reliable).

After failing to find any such writeup, I did a review of a few
dual-tech PIR/microwave detectors a few years ago which you can find he
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/...8?dmode=source

It is likely some of the products will have changed or been superceeded
now, but it will still give you an idea for the sort of differences you
can find in different products. I still have all the types of detector
mentioned in that article in use, and other than the one issue mentioned
in the article, none have failed or had any problems in the 3 years since
then.

--
Andrew Gabriel

On Fri, 28 Jan 2005 18:25:42 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
Mark wrote:
Can anyone recommend an on-line supplier as an alternative to TLC and
CPC ?

Why?

Because I'm a sad git that has to research every supply alternative to
make sure I don't get "Buyer's Remorse". I've absolutely nothing
against TLC or CPC.

On Fri, 28 Jan 2005 23:42:18 +0000, Lurch
wrote:

On Fri, 28 Jan 2005 13:44:35 +0000, Mark strung
together this:


I'm planning to install my own wired alarm system. I plan to buy the
components to exactly suit my needs rather than buy a 'turnkey'
system.

Can anyone recommend an on-line supplier as an alternative to TLC and
CPC ?

You may as well go with TLC, the ADE panels are pretty good for DIY
installs as the programming is a piece of ****.

Regarding control panel and PIRs, are there any brands to avoid, or
any brands that are particularly good. (For good read reliable).

Well, see above!

Appreciate any feedback, particularly if there are any alrm engineers
out there.

Personally, I wouldn't advise anyone to fit their own alarm as there's
more to designing, fitting and commisioning an effective system than
most people think.

I'm sure you're right about this, but I'll settle for a "satisfactory"
system. I was willing to have an alarm company install a system for me
but I've been quoted £550 for a panel, 3 PIRs and a door switch, using
my existing wiring. I think I'll be struggling to spend £150 on these
parts even if I buy the 'top end' components. I don't need a serviced
system for the paltry £2 a month discount my insurance company will
give me. This is the whole point of DIY isn't it?

So Lurch, you sound like you know your way around an alarm system, how
about some tips -)

Mark

On 29 Jan 2005 00:47:40 GMT, (Andrew
Gabriel) wrote:

Thanks for that. You mentioned "anti-masking" features, what exactly
is anti-masking?


In article ,
Mark writes:

I'm planning to install my own wired alarm system. I plan to buy the
components to exactly suit my needs rather than buy a 'turnkey'
system.

Can anyone recommend an on-line supplier as an alternative to TLC and
CPC ?

What's wrong with them?

Regarding control panel and PIRs, are there any brands to avoid, or
any brands that are particularly good. (For good read reliable).

After failing to find any such writeup, I did a review of a few
dual-tech PIR/microwave detectors a few years ago which you can find he
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/...8?dmode=source

It is likely some of the products will have changed or been superceeded
now, but it will still give you an idea for the sort of differences you
can find in different products. I still have all the types of detector
mentioned in that article in use, and other than the one issue mentioned
in the article, none have failed or had any problems in the 3 years since
then.

On Sat, 29 Jan 2005 07:06:01 +0000, Mark strung
together this:

I'm sure you're right about this, but I'll settle for a "satisfactory"
system.

Who said anything about "satisfactory"?

I was willing to have an alarm company install a system for me
but I've been quoted £550 for a panel, 3 PIRs and a door switch, using
my existing wiring.

To be fair, that's a bit on the high side. You want to get three
quotes before deciding anything.
Post your location somewhere in here,
http://www.thesecurityinstaller.co.uk/community, if you still want a
professionally installed system, at a sensible price.

I think I'll be struggling to spend £150 on these
parts even if I buy the 'top end' components.

I don't think so, a top end panel will eat that £150 in one go.

I don't need a serviced
system for the paltry £2 a month discount my insurance company will
give me. This is the whole point of DIY isn't it?

No. The point in servicing the system is so that when someone breaks
in the alarm doesn't just sit in a knackered lump. Servicing also
helps to prevent the alarm from going off at daft 'o' clock in the
morning on a regular basis. If you're going to fit an alarm it needs
servicing, in the same way that your car needs servicing otherwise it
just doesn't work after a while.

And contrary to popular belief it takes time to service an alarm, some
people refer to just typing a magic number in the panel, some
rougharse would do this, sit in the car for a bit then get you to sign
the service sheet. If it's done properly the entire system is
physically checked and cables are tested, as is the functionality of
the system. This is all noted down in your service record, which will
be provided by a reputable installer.

You can then use this to gain a discount on your house insurance,
providing the installer is accredited with some sort approvals from
the SSAIB\NSI. Insurance companies generally won't discount a DIY
installed system.

Generally, your house insurance discount is roughly equal to a yearly
service visit so by DIY'ing it you're only saving a bit of money now,
but you get what you pay for. A bit more spent on a system installed
by someone reputable will get you a better system.

So Lurch, you sound like you know your way around an alarm system, how
about some tips -)

It took me years to learn what I have, I can't give it all out here.
--

SJW
Please reply to group or use 'usenet' in email subject

In article ,
Mark writes:
On 29 Jan 2005 00:47:40 GMT, (Andrew
Gabriel) wrote:

Thanks for that. You mentioned "anti-masking" features, what exactly
is anti-masking?

The ability for the detector to realise it's been masked
(covered over) to defeat operation. This however defeats
the extra false alarm protection afforded by dual-tech
units due to the way it works. Anti-masking is really
only an issue if you expect potential burglars to have
access at times when the system isn't armed, e.g. in
public buildings, workplaces, etc.

--
Andrew Gabriel

In article ,
Lurch writes:

I don't think so, a top end panel will eat that £150 in one go.

and you can go significantly higher that that;-)

And contrary to popular belief it takes time to service an alarm, some
people refer to just typing a magic number in the panel, some
rougharse would do this, sit in the car for a bit then get you to sign
the service sheet. If it's done properly the entire system is
physically checked and cables are tested, as is the functionality of
the system. This is all noted down in your service record, which will
be provided by a reputable installer.

Never seen any alarm service include explicit cable checks.
Normally every detector is tested, including a check of
coverage area. Sometimes, repositioning of furniture can
render an area uncovered, and need a detector to be repositioned
or supplemented. Also testing of sounders, central station
signalling where fitted, battery conditions, etc. Some service
contracts include replacement of sensors and/or panel at a
certain age, and all should include periodic battery replacement.
A good service engineer would also spot any upgrading which
might be necessary, e.g. due to a change in the use of some part
of the covered/uncovered premises.

You can then use this to gain a discount on your house insurance,
providing the installer is accredited with some sort approvals from
the SSAIB\NSI.

That's a really bad idea. Look to see what insurance cover you
forfeit if you do this, and the premium reduction isn't worth it.
Even if you do have an eligable alarm system, you are probably
best advised not to take any insurance premium discount on that
basis.

Insurance companies generally won't discount a DIY installed system.

Generally, your house insurance discount is roughly equal to a yearly
service visit so by DIY'ing it you're only saving a bit of money now,
but you get what you pay for. A bit more spent on a system installed
by someone reputable will get you a better system.

--
Andrew Gabriel

On 29 Jan 2005 23:27:30 GMT, (Andrew
Gabriel) strung together this:

I don't think so, a top end panel will eat that £150 in one go.

and you can go significantly higher that that;-)

Well, I was thinking "within reason", but yes.

Never seen any alarm service include explicit cable checks.

Ah well, you should get the pro's in then ;-) Even if it's not all
recorded it's a good idea to so you can see if anything is
deteriorating.

That's a really bad idea. Look to see what insurance cover you
forfeit if you do this, and the premium reduction isn't worth it.
Even if you do have an eligable alarm system, you are probably
best advised not to take any insurance premium discount on that
basis.

Yes, I meant to expand on that but didn't! I personally wouldn't
bother with the discount from the insurance co. as they will use it as
another way of trying to get out of paying for a claim. If you leave
the house and forget to set the alarm the insurance co. will not pay
out.
--

SJW
Please reply to group or use 'usenet' in email subject

In article ,
Lurch wrote:
No. The point in servicing the system is so that when someone breaks
in the alarm doesn't just sit in a knackered lump. Servicing also
helps to prevent the alarm from going off at daft 'o' clock in the
morning on a regular basis. If you're going to fit an alarm it needs
servicing, in the same way that your car needs servicing otherwise it
just doesn't work after a while.

I'd be interested to know what need servicing on an alarm in the same way
as on a car? Or do you mean an inspection and check on functionality?

--
*Why is it that rain drops but snow falls?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
"Dave Plowman (News)" writes:
In article ,
Lurch wrote:
No. The point in servicing the system is so that when someone breaks
in the alarm doesn't just sit in a knackered lump. Servicing also
helps to prevent the alarm from going off at daft 'o' clock in the
morning on a regular basis. If you're going to fit an alarm it needs
servicing, in the same way that your car needs servicing otherwise it
just doesn't work after a while.

I'd be interested to know what need servicing on an alarm in the same way
as on a car? Or do you mean an inspection and check on functionality?

Well, sensitivity of detectors does change with time (only
reduces in my experience). Whilst that might not come as a
surprise with things like PIR's, it's also true of reed switches,
which can start sticking if the reed starts picking up some
permanent magnetism (reversing the permanent magnet fixes that).

If you also use the same sensors for home automation purposes,
such as occupancy sensors for lights, you might notice a change
in behaviour. However, most alarm systems are not part of a
fully integrated home automation system, so most alarm users
won't notice if their sensors start changing in behaviour, or
even stop working completely.

Also see my other posting on what should be checked in a service.

--
Andrew Gabriel

On Sun, 30 Jan 2005 20:17:32 +0000, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article ,
Lurch wrote:
No. The point in servicing the system is so that when someone breaks
in the alarm doesn't just sit in a knackered lump. Servicing also
helps to prevent the alarm from going off at daft 'o' clock in the
morning on a regular basis. If you're going to fit an alarm it needs
servicing, in the same way that your car needs servicing otherwise it
just doesn't work after a while.

I'd be interested to know what need servicing on an alarm in the same way
as on a car? Or do you mean an inspection and check on functionality?

Mainly just a check that it is working and replacing the battery (sub £10
from s/fix) even once in a while. Really not worth the £50 many would
want.

--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html

On Sun, 30 Jan 2005 20:17:32 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
strung together this:

I'd be interested to know what need servicing on an alarm in the same way
as on a car? Or do you mean an inspection and check on functionality?

Well, servicing an alarm is like..... making love to a beautiful
woman.......

Sorry, minds wandering a bit, I'll start again.

Servicing an alarm is probably more similar in it's effectiveness and
techniques to a periodic test on your electrical wiring system, but as
no-one bothers with this either then I decided not to bother bringing
it up.

A routine service on an alarm will consist of, amongst other things
depending on the system specifics;

Checking cables for signs of deteriaration.
Checking the devices on the system are functioning properly, PIR's,
bells etc...
Testing monitoring\dialling settings and making test calls.
Replacing faulty batteries and minor components.

If you don't service an alarm, then it could just decide not to work
at any time, usually due to, but not limited to, dodgy batteries
blowing charging circuits on panels.
--

SJW
Please reply to group or use 'usenet' in email subject

On Sun, 30 Jan 2005 21:32:38 +0000, Ed Sirett
strung together this:

Mainly just a check that it is working and replacing the battery (sub £10
from s/fix) even once in a while.

Is that what you do when you service a boiler, just check the pilot
lights lit and check the time on the programmer?

Please stick to what you know.

Really not worth the £50 many would want.

How much do you charge for a full service on a boiler, to include
checking and testing all connected components, such as programmers,
stats, temp drop across rads, rad size and effective positioning?
--

SJW
Please reply to group or use 'usenet' in email subject

On Sun, 30 Jan 2005 23:52:06 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
strung together this:

Well, servicing an alarm is like..... making love to a beautiful
woman.......

Right. I've got this memory problem - could you enlarge on this?

That's as much as I can remember I'm afraid.

Checking cables for signs of deteriaration.
Checking the devices on the system are functioning properly, PIR's,
bells etc...
Testing monitoring\dialling settings and making test calls.
Replacing faulty batteries and minor components.

Well, yes. Assuming someone had installed their own system - and had done
a decent 'walk' test, etc, it's still a DIY option?

Well, I would always advise against DIY'ing it unless you actually
know what you're doing, but fitting an alarm is a DIY option. Not many
people can do it properly though.

Thing is, for most, an alarm is really a waste of money. And yes, I have
one. It dials a local friend and my mobile if activated. Neighbours might,
or might not, take notice. But I'd not expect them to tackle a burglar,
and even if they did phone the police it might be hours - or even days -
before they responded.

IMHO, the money would be better spent on stopping access by physical means.

I'd kind of have to agree there, although I would add an alarm to the
list of security features to be added rather than replace it with
other hardware. Even with secure locks and other deterrents someone
can still come and chuck a brick throught he window, and it does
happen, at least having an alarm will put some off.

I'd say that having decent locks fitted to windows and doors as well
as other simple security measures are just as important as an alarm.
If you've only got a house with no other security measures than an
alarm then you're still under protected.
--

SJW
Please reply to group or use 'usenet' in email subject

On Sat, 29 Jan 2005 22:42:44 +0000, Lurch
wrote:



You can then use this to gain a discount on your house insurance,
providing the installer is accredited with some sort approvals from
the SSAIB\NSI. Insurance companies generally won't discount a DIY
installed system.

Telling your insurance company you have an alarm and getting the
paltry discount (insurance companies know better than most how
ineffective most domestic alarms are) is usually a really bad idea.

You will find a condition installed in your policy removing cover if
the alarm is not set and it is up to you to prove it was set and it
went off if there is a break in. For the trivial discount it is
better to tell them you have an alarm but do not use it and do not
wish it to be considered.

Generally, your house insurance discount is roughly equal to a yearly
service visit

You can get a service visit for GBP15 to GBP20?


--
Peter Parry.
http://www.wpp.ltd.uk/

On Sat, 19 Feb 2005 17:43:11 +0000, Peter Parry
strung together this:

You will find a condition installed in your policy removing cover if
the alarm is not set and it is up to you to prove it was set and it
went off if there is a break in. For the trivial discount it is
better to tell them you have an alarm but do not use it and do not
wish it to be considered.

I think that's what I said further down.

Generally, your house insurance discount is roughly equal to a yearly
service visit

You can get a service visit for GBP15 to GBP20?

Well, generally roundabout £50ish discount and generally roundabout
£50ish service charge, give or take £20 or so ish. I was generalising
a bit. ;-)
--

SJW
Please reply to group or use 'usenet' in email subject