Want to buy a simple cordless drill/driver but would like information on
voltags vs price.Have seen (for instance) a Bosch PSR 1440 (14.4v) one that
is around £50 but also there is a Bosch PSR 12ve (12 v) that is around £70.
Is there any relationship between voltage and price at all? The Dewalt range
is quite pricey so what do you get for your money with the? Thanks.

"Wainscotting" wrote in message


Want to buy a simple cordless drill/driver but would like information on
voltags vs price.

Have a look at the cheap end of the market and go for a 24 volt Makita
lookalike if you can find one. Keeping one step ahead of the copyrights
and patents laws, these pirates change their names every so often.

So how much does it cost to assemble a bunch of parts anyway? 2 or 3
hundred quid? Really?

How come Linux is given away when Windows costs an arm and a leg? An
army of people work on Linux for next to nothing. Windows personel get a
little more but once the product is ready for issue it costs about 10 p
per Cd. Less for bulk.

The only thing you need to worry about is the quality of the charger. If
you don't trust your local market trader, call in at Maplins.


--
Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG

"Michael Mcneil" wrote in message
news:37229ada0b01549b26c55dff3e1a93df.45219@mygate .mailgate.org...
"Wainscotting" wrote in message


Want to buy a simple cordless drill/driver but would like information on
voltags vs price.

Have a look at the cheap end of the market and go for a 24 volt Makita
lookalike if you can find one. Keeping one step ahead of the copyrights
and patents laws, these pirates change their names every so often.

So how much does it cost to assemble a bunch of parts anyway? 2 or 3
hundred quid? Really?

How come Linux is given away when Windows costs an arm and a leg? An
army of people work on Linux for next to nothing. Windows personel get a
little more but once the product is ready for issue it costs about 10 p
per Cd. Less for bulk.

The only thing you need to worry about is the quality of the charger. If
you don't trust your local market trader, call in at Maplins.


--
Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG

Thanks Michael - will have a search. Much appreciated.

Wainscotting wrote:
Want to buy a simple cordless drill/driver but would like information on
voltags vs price.Have seen (for instance) a Bosch PSR 1440 (14.4v) one that
is around £50 but also there is a Bosch PSR 12ve (12 v) that is around £70.
Is there any relationship between voltage and price at all? The Dewalt range
is quite pricey so what do you get for your money with the? Thanks.


The odd thing about these devices is that voltage is not what should be
important
- wattage should be, just as with mains driven ones.

I bought a rechargable screwdriver (3 or 4 volt) for fitting shelves but
that was useless and I'm still looking for a good use for it.

I don't know about those expensive models but a 14.4 Volt cheapo drill
from B&Q for about £15 has been alsolutely great for screwdriving, and
is pretty good for holes in wood with up to a 15mm chisel bit. It will
get through an oak joist at a pinch, but it's cruel! I only get out the
new mains driven hammer drill for masonry, for holes in joists where
I've the room to get at it, or to impress the donor as it was a birthday
present!

Phil

In article lgate.org,
Michael Mcneil wrote:
The only thing you need to worry about is the quality of the charger.

IMHO, the batteries make a vast difference. Apart from lasting longer and
storing a higher charge, decent cells can also deliver more power - which
can make a big improvement to the starting torque and controllability of a
'cheap' drill.

--
*You are validating my inherent mistrust of strangers

Dave Plowman London SW 12
RIP Acorn

"P.R.Brady" wrote in message
...
Wainscotting wrote:
Want to buy a simple cordless drill/driver but would like information on
voltags vs price.Have seen (for instance) a Bosch PSR 1440 (14.4v) one
that
is around £50 but also there is a Bosch PSR 12ve (12 v) that is around
£70.
Is there any relationship between voltage and price at all? The Dewalt
range
is quite pricey so what do you get for your money with the? Thanks.


The odd thing about these devices is that voltage is not what should be
important
- wattage should be, just as with mains driven ones.

I bought a rechargable screwdriver (3 or 4 volt) for fitting shelves but
that was useless and I'm still looking for a good use for it.

I don't know about those expensive models but a 14.4 Volt cheapo drill
from B&Q for about £15 has been alsolutely great for screwdriving, and
is pretty good for holes in wood with up to a 15mm chisel bit. It will
get through an oak joist at a pinch, but it's cruel! I only get out the
new mains driven hammer drill for masonry, for holes in joists where
I've the room to get at it, or to impress the donor as it was a birthday
present!

Phil

Thanks Phil - I will take a peep at the cheaper higher voltage models.

In article ,
P.R.Brady wrote:
The odd thing about these devices is that voltage is not what should be
important
- wattage should be, just as with mains driven ones.

They all use standard sized cells - 'sub C' size - so the only way to
increase battery capacity is by increasing the voltage, given that
parallel connection of Ni-Cads etc is a practical no-no.

--
*Forget about World Peace...Visualize using your turn signal.

Dave Plowman London SW 12
RIP Acorn

On Mon, 19 Apr 2004 16:47:30 +0100, "Wainscotting"
wrote:

Want to buy a simple cordless drill/driver but would like information on
voltags vs price.Have seen (for instance) a Bosch PSR 1440 (14.4v) one that
is around £50 but also there is a Bosch PSR 12ve (12 v) that is around £70.
Is there any relationship between voltage and price at all? The Dewalt range
is quite pricey so what do you get for your money with the? Thanks.

I'd suggest looking in B&Q at their "performance power" range. I'd
also suggest a 14.4v as an absolute minimum.

I went to B&Q to buy a battery for my drill but came away with a new
drill as it was cheaper than the battery!!

sPoNiX

On Mon, 19 Apr 2004 16:32:09 +0000 (UTC), "Michael Mcneil"
wrote:

"Wainscotting" wrote in message


Want to buy a simple cordless drill/driver but would like information on
voltags vs price.

Have a look at the cheap end of the market and go for a 24 volt Makita
lookalike if you can find one. Keeping one step ahead of the copyrights
and patents laws, these pirates change their names every so often.

So how much does it cost to assemble a bunch of parts anyway? 2 or 3
hundred quid? Really?

If you ignore the development, support and marketing costs it isn't
surprising that pirates can rip off branded products.

It is, however, theft.


How come Linux is given away when Windows costs an arm and a leg? An
army of people work on Linux for next to nothing. Windows personel get a
little more but once the product is ready for issue it costs about 10 p
per Cd. Less for bulk.

I'm by no means an M$ supporter, but this is not a sesnible argument.
There is a cost in developing software, like any other designed
product. People have to be paid.

If people working on Linux want to donate their time, that's fine, but
it is a donation and the user shouldn't expect free stuff as a right.



The only thing you need to worry about is the quality of the charger. If
you don't trust your local market trader, call in at Maplins.


The main thing is not the charger - it is the quality of the batteries
and of the motor controller and motor.


..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

On Mon, 19 Apr 2004 19:43:50 +0100, "Wainscotting"
wrote:




Thanks Phil - I will take a peep at the cheaper higher voltage models.

Unfortunately, the cheaper end manufacturers sell on voltage because
the customer perceives that the higher the better.

The reality is that this is not the case and what matters is the
quality of the battery, the speed controller and the motor.

In a recent survey, a Panasonic 15.6v product outperformed 18 and 24v
cheap products.

A 14.4v Makita will be far better and last a great deal longer than a
cheap 18v product.


..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

Andy Hall has brought this to us :
The main thing is not the charger - it is the quality of the batteries
and of the motor controller and motor.

It is if you expect it to last a long time, but even good quality
batteries will quickly wear out and the cost of a replacement pack
often comes close to the cost of a complete new drill....

For example I picked up a new drill, variable speed, forward and
reverse, clutch, two 14v batteries complete with a 1 hour charger, last
year at a car boot sale for £20. There were stacks of them and I could
of had a hammer version for £25.

It has had lots of use since I got it, it does the job and when it
wears out I can bin it and get a new one.

--


--

Regards,
Harry (M1BYT) (L)
http://www.ukradioamateur.org

On Tue, 20 Apr 2004 00:07:10 +0100, Harry Bloomfield
wrote:

Andy Hall has brought this to us :
The main thing is not the charger - it is the quality of the batteries
and of the motor controller and motor.

It is if you expect it to last a long time, but even good quality
batteries will quickly wear out and the cost of a replacement pack
often comes close to the cost of a complete new drill....

I've found this not to be the case as long as the tool is good
quality, with a good charger and the batteries are treated with
respect. I tend to stick to one or two brands and then batteries are
interchangeable between tools.



For example I picked up a new drill, variable speed, forward and
reverse, clutch, two 14v batteries complete with a 1 hour charger, last
year at a car boot sale for £20. There were stacks of them and I could
of had a hammer version for £25.

It has had lots of use since I got it, it does the job and when it
wears out I can bin it and get a new one.

--
I don't buy things at car boot sales because it is not clear what is
genuine and what is counterfeit and what is and isn't stolen property.
I prefer to buy tools of known origin with known quality of service
and support.


..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

Andy Hall wrote:

I've found this not to be the case as long as the tool is good
quality, with a good charger and the batteries are treated with
respect. I tend to stick to one or two brands and then batteries are
interchangeable between tools.


While we're on the subject, I don't know if you remember my thread last
year about my Erbauer 18V combi which failed. After much umming and
aaring, I replaced it with a similar priced (£130) Bosch 18V combi (you
said get a Makita, I said too expensive for weekend use).

Well, the Bosch has just started exhibiting motor bearing failure
symptoms. So this one's going back, and guess what I'm gonna buy ;-)

I have to say this is the only Bosch tool which has ever let me down. I
have a whole load of them (mains drill, planer, sanders, angle grinders
etc), some green (home) and some blue (pro), many of which have had a
lot of abuse over the years, and no failures. I don't think I'm
particularly hard on my drill/drivers - they get a lot of use, but
mostly non-hammer, and mostly for driving rather than drilling.

--
Grunff

Andy Hall explained on 20/04/2004 :
I don't buy things at car boot sales because it is not clear what is
genuine and what is counterfeit and what is and isn't stolen property.
I prefer to buy tools of known origin with known quality of service
and support.

As do I, but for occasional DIY use I don't expect such items to take
quite the same level of punishment. Professional tools for regular,
hard, daily use.

--


--

Regards,
Harry (M1BYT) (L)
http://www.ukradioamateur.org

"Grunff" wrote in message
...
Andy Hall wrote:

I've found this not to be the case as long as the tool is good
quality, with a good charger and the batteries are treated with
respect. I tend to stick to one or two brands and then batteries are
interchangeable between tools.


While we're on the subject, I don't know if you remember my thread last
year about my Erbauer 18V combi which failed. After much umming and
aaring, I replaced it with a similar priced (£130) Bosch 18V combi (you
said get a Makita, I said too expensive for weekend use).

Well, the Bosch has just started exhibiting motor bearing failure
symptoms. So this one's going back, and guess what I'm gonna buy ;-)

Bosch are crap. I have had lots of problems with this brand over the years.

I have to say this is the only Bosch tool which has ever let me down. I
have a whole load of them (mains drill, planer, sanders, angle grinders
etc), some green (home) and some blue (pro), many of which have had a
lot of abuse over the years, and no failures. I don't think I'm
particularly hard on my drill/drivers - they get a lot of use, but
mostly non-hammer, and mostly for driving rather than drilling.

Try the Wickes pro drills, made by Kress and 2 yr guarantee. For around
£80-90

IMM wrote:

Bosch are crap. I have had lots of problems with this brand over the years.

I really can't agree with that. I have around 8 Bosch power tools, as
well as several Bosch white goods, and have not had any problems with
any of them except for the 18V combi. Some of the tools are nearly 10
years old, and they've all had a huge amount of use.

--
Grunff

On Tue, 20 Apr 2004 00:38:47 +0100, Harry Bloomfield
wrote:

Andy Hall explained on 20/04/2004 :
I don't buy things at car boot sales because it is not clear what is
genuine and what is counterfeit and what is and isn't stolen property.
I prefer to buy tools of known origin with known quality of service
and support.

As do I, but for occasional DIY use I don't expect such items to take
quite the same level of punishment. Professional tools for regular,
hard, daily use.

--


I've found that whenever I've done that, the damn things are always
either inadequate, inaccurate or break down at the most inconvenient
time.

OK, so there's a 2 year guarantee, or I can go and buy a new one.
The trouble is that that typically takes a couple of hours to go and
do and that costs way more than the difference in the cost of buying a
decent tool in the first place when you account for what time is
worth.




..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

In article ,
Grunff wrote:
Bosch are crap. I have had lots of problems with this brand over the
years.

I really can't agree with that. I have around 8 Bosch power tools, as
well as several Bosch white goods, and have not had any problems with
any of them except for the 18V combi. Some of the tools are nearly 10
years old, and they've all had a huge amount of use.

Same here. It's possible their modern stuff isn't as good, given that many
buy on price rather than quality these days.

--
*Why doesn't glue stick to the inside of the bottle?

Dave Plowman London SW 12
RIP Acorn

Dave Plowman wrote:

Same here. It's possible their modern stuff isn't as good, given that many
buy on price rather than quality these days.

My most recent Bosch purchase was a random orbit sander (PEX 400), which
seems to me as well thought out and put together as any of the other
Bosch tools I have. I'm a little surprised about the cordless drill
failing in such an obvious way, but bearing wear isn't likely to be
caused by a manufacturing fault.

--
Grunff

In article ,
Grunff wrote:
My most recent Bosch purchase was a random orbit sander (PEX 400), which
seems to me as well thought out and put together as any of the other
Bosch tools I have. I'm a little surprised about the cordless drill
failing in such an obvious way, but bearing wear isn't likely to be
caused by a manufacturing fault.

I wonder if they now source some of their 'fast moving' tools like
cordless drills from those same Chinese factories as many of the other
cheap brands?

--
*A journey of a thousand sites begins with a single click *

Dave Plowman London SW 12
RIP Acorn

Dave Plowman wrote in message ...
In article ,
P.R.Brady wrote:
The odd thing about these devices is that voltage is not what should be
important
- wattage should be, just as with mains driven ones.

They all use standard sized cells - 'sub C' size - so the only way to
increase battery capacity is by increasing the voltage, given that
parallel connection of Ni-Cads etc is a practical no-no.


True in theory BUT I bet that a Makita half hour charger gets the
batteries much nearer to full capacity than a cheapo not properly
regulated Argos special. (Cheap ones cannot do this as they would cook
the batteries if they tried )
I asked about drills a while ago and finally plumped for a Makita 9.6
from screwfix for £76
This IS a world apart from cheap ones.
No vibration when drilling tiles with an ordinary masonary bit
Electric brake allows positioning of screw head easily on slotted
screws
Chuck is true one handed operation and grips drill bits really well
I have no regrets about the extra money

HTH Phil

"Grunff" wrote in message
...
IMM wrote:

Bosch are crap. I have had lots of problems with this brand over the
years.

I really can't agree with that. I have around 8 Bosch power tools, as
well as several Bosch white goods, and have not had any problems with
any of them except for the 18V combi. Some of the tools are nearly 10
years old, and they've all had a huge amount of use.

You are lucky then. ALL my Bosch power tools are been crap. Never again.

"Grunff" wrote in message
...
Dave Plowman wrote:

Same here. It's possible their modern stuff isn't as good, given that
many
buy on price rather than quality these days.

Price?meaning a low price. Bosch are Not low priced by any means.

My most recent Bosch purchase was a random orbit sander (PEX 400), which
seems to me as well thought out and put together as any of the other
Bosch tools I have. I'm a little surprised about the cordless drill
failing in such an obvious way, but bearing wear isn't likely to be
caused by a manufacturing fault.

Was this fault caused by an act of God then?

IMM wrote:

My most recent Bosch purchase was a random orbit sander (PEX 400), which
seems to me as well thought out and put together as any of the other
Bosch tools I have. I'm a little surprised about the cordless drill
failing in such an obvious way, but bearing wear isn't likely to be
caused by a manufacturing fault.


Was this fault caused by an act of God then?

No, I was expressing disappointment in the design.

--
Grunff

IMM wrote:

You are lucky then. ALL my Bosch power tools are been crap. Never again.

You sure they weren't car boot sale Bosch 'specials'?

--
Grunff

"sPoNiX" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 19 Apr 2004 16:47:30 +0100, "Wainscotting"
wrote:

Want to buy a simple cordless drill/driver but would like information on
voltags vs price.Have seen (for instance) a Bosch PSR 1440 (14.4v) one
that
is around £50 but also there is a Bosch PSR 12ve (12 v) that is around
£70.
Is there any relationship between voltage and price at all? The Dewalt
range
is quite pricey so what do you get for your money with the? Thanks.

I'd suggest looking in B&Q at their "performance power" range. I'd
also suggest a 14.4v as an absolute minimum.

I went to B&Q to buy a battery for my drill but came away with a new
drill as it was cheaper than the battery!!

No, you bought a battery and they threw in the drill.

"Grunff" wrote in message
...
IMM wrote:

You are lucky then. ALL my Bosch power tools are been crap. Never
again.

You sure they weren't car boot sale Bosch 'specials'?

I have never ever been to a car boot sale. All genuine stuff.

On Tue, 20 Apr 2004 12:15:10 +0100, Grunff wrote:

IMM wrote:

My most recent Bosch purchase was a random orbit sander (PEX 400), which
seems to me as well thought out and put together as any of the other
Bosch tools I have. I'm a little surprised about the cordless drill
failing in such an obvious way, but bearing wear isn't likely to be
caused by a manufacturing fault.


Was this fault caused by an act of God then?

No, I was expressing disappointment in the design.


I expect that God was too, when he saw IMM..... :-)



..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

Wainscotting wrote:
"P.R.Brady" wrote in message
...

Wainscotting wrote:

Want to buy a simple cordless drill/driver but would like information on
voltags vs price.Have seen (for instance) a Bosch PSR 1440 (14.4v) one

that

is around £50 but also there is a Bosch PSR 12ve (12 v) that is around

£70.

Is there any relationship between voltage and price at all? The Dewalt

range

is quite pricey so what do you get for your money with the? Thanks.



The odd thing about these devices is that voltage is not what should be
important
- wattage should be, just as with mains driven ones.

I bought a rechargable screwdriver (3 or 4 volt) for fitting shelves but
that was useless and I'm still looking for a good use for it.

I don't know about those expensive models but a 14.4 Volt cheapo drill
from B&Q for about £15 has been alsolutely great for screwdriving, and
is pretty good for holes in wood with up to a 15mm chisel bit. It will
get through an oak joist at a pinch, but it's cruel! I only get out the
new mains driven hammer drill for masonry, for holes in joists where
I've the room to get at it, or to impress the donor as it was a birthday
present!

Phil


Thanks Phil - I will take a peep at the cheaper higher voltage models.




Er - just a cautionary note. I was talking occasional DIY not
professional use all day. every day!
Phil

IMM wrote:

I have never ever been to a car boot sale.

Do you know, that *really* surprises me...

--
Grunff

On Tue, 20 Apr 2004 12:49:26 +0100, Grunff wrote:

IMM wrote:

I have never ever been to a car boot sale.

Do you know, that *really* surprises me...

Me too. I expected that he'd spend Sunday mornings at those, and the
afternoons at the dump, picking over what's coming in.



..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

Andy Hall wrote:

Me too. I expected that he'd spend Sunday mornings at those, and the
afternoons at the dump, picking over what's coming in.


That's a great mental picture.

--
Grunff

"Wainscotting" wrote in message
...
Want to buy a simple cordless drill/driver but would like information on
voltags vs price.Have seen (for instance) a Bosch PSR 1440 (14.4v) one
that
is around £50 but also there is a Bosch PSR 12ve (12 v) that is around
£70.
Is there any relationship between voltage and price at all? The Dewalt
range
is quite pricey so what do you get for your money with the? Thanks.

My advice is first go for a two battery pack with a 1hr timed charger. No
need to pay more than £50 these days for a perfectly adequate deal unless
you have money to burn. I find my B&Q Performance Power Pro 12V fine for
general use. Its relatively light and well balanced and has good low speed
control, however the batteries are 3hr charge and eventually got cooked.
The hammer action is a waste of time. Funnily enough I passed a tradesman
yesterday putting up a shop facia sign with the very same drill. He was on
hammer action through wood into masory. He's probably still there. I guess
his Makita/De Walt/Metabo got nicked. Never had a Bosch cordless but tried
one once. Its low speed control was terrible so I returned it. My other
Bosch tools have been fine.

Alan

Hi,

Maplin have an 18v one with a 1 hour charger for £20 at the moment,
should be fine for a try out.

cheers,
Pete.

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 20 Apr 2004 12:15:10 +0100, Grunff wrote:

IMM wrote:

My most recent Bosch purchase was a random orbit sander (PEX 400),
which
seems to me as well thought out and put together as any of the other
Bosch tools I have. I'm a little surprised about the cordless drill
failing in such an obvious way, but bearing wear isn't likely to be
caused by a manufacturing fault.


Was this fault caused by an act of God then?

No, I was expressing disappointment in the design.

I expect that God was too, when he saw IMM..... :-)

Yes Andy, God saw that Bosch tools are not for proper people.

"Grunff" wrote in message
...
IMM wrote:

I have never ever been to a car boot sale.

Do you know, that *really* surprises me...

Why? I am the ultimate suave sosphito, why would I go to such a place. In
fact I don't even know where one is in central London.

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 20 Apr 2004 12:49:26 +0100, Grunff wrote:

IMM wrote:

I have never ever been to a car boot sale.

Do you know, that *really* surprises me...

Me too. I expected that he'd spend Sunday mornings at those, and the
afternoons at the dump, picking over what's coming in.

So it is you who has been rummaging through my empty Champagne bottles.

"Grunff" wrote in message
...
Andy Hall wrote:

Me too. I expected that he'd spend Sunday mornings at those, and the
afternoons at the dump, picking over what's coming in.

That's a great mental picture.

You can therapy for that. Do you see spots as well?

"Alan James" wrote in message
news:bu8hc.291$iv1.204@newsfe1-win...

"Wainscotting" wrote in message
...
Want to buy a simple cordless drill/driver but would like information on
voltags vs price.Have seen (for instance) a Bosch PSR 1440 (14.4v) one
that
is around £50 but also there is a Bosch PSR 12ve (12 v) that is around
£70.
Is there any relationship between voltage and price at all? The Dewalt
range
is quite pricey so what do you get for your money with the? Thanks.

My advice is first go for a two battery pack with a 1hr timed charger.

That is the bare minimum.

No need to pay more than £50 these days for a perfectly adequate deal

Too true.

unless
you have money to burn. I find my B&Q Performance Power Pro 12V fine for
general use. Its relatively light and well balanced and has good low
speed
control, however the batteries are 3hr charge and eventually got cooked.
The hammer action is a waste of time. Funnily enough I passed a tradesman
yesterday putting up a shop facia sign with the very same drill. He was
on
hammer action through wood into masory. He's probably still there. I
guess
his Makita/De Walt/Metabo got nicked.

Most tradesmen these days do not have the high end models. I guess this man
would have been better with a 18-24v jobbie. the minimum is 18v for hammer.

Never had a Bosch cordless but tried
one once. Its low speed control was terrible so I returned it. My other
Bosch tools have been fine.

I find Bosch the most over-rated and over priced power tools around.

On Tue, 20 Apr 2004 13:43:01 +0100, "IMM" wrote:


"Grunff" wrote in message
...
IMM wrote:

I have never ever been to a car boot sale.

Do you know, that *really* surprises me...

Why? I am the ultimate suave sosphito,

Is that some sort of inebriated insect?


..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl