On Tue, 20 Apr 2004 13:13:10 +0100, "Alan James"
wrote:



My advice is first go for a two battery pack with a 1hr timed charger. No
need to pay more than £50 these days for a perfectly adequate deal unless
you have money to burn.

It's more the time that is burned replacing inadequate or broken
items, I've found. If you have to spend half a day resolving a
problem with one of these things, the effective cost is way more than
the saving, so I don't see the point.

I find my B&Q Performance Power Pro 12V fine for
general use. Its relatively light and well balanced and has good low speed
control, however the batteries are 3hr charge and eventually got cooked.
The hammer action is a waste of time.

But apart from all of that, a good deal.......


A 12v Makita with 2 batteries and 1 hour charger can be obtained for
about £110 and a 14.4v one for not much more...


Funnily enough I passed a tradesman
yesterday putting up a shop facia sign with the very same drill. He was on
hammer action through wood into masory. He's probably still there. I guess
his Makita/De Walt/Metabo got nicked. Never had a Bosch cordless but tried
one once. Its low speed control was terrible so I returned it. My other
Bosch tools have been fine.

Alan


..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 20 Apr 2004 13:43:01 +0100, "IMM" wrote:


"Grunff" wrote in message
...
IMM wrote:

I have never ever been to a car boot sale.

Do you know, that *really* surprises me...

Why? I am the ultimate suave sosphito,

Is that some sort of inebriated insect?

Do you mean like a snake?

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 20 Apr 2004 13:13:10 +0100, "Alan James"
wrote:



My advice is first go for a two battery pack with a 1hr timed charger.
No
need to pay more than £50 these days for a perfectly adequate deal unless
you have money to burn.

It's more the time that is burned replacing inadequate or broken
items, I've found. If you have to spend half a day resolving a
problem with one of these things, the effective cost is way more than
the saving, so I don't see the point.

I find my B&Q Performance Power Pro 12V fine for
general use. Its relatively light and well balanced and has good low
speed
control, however the batteries are 3hr charge and eventually got cooked.
The hammer action is a waste of time.

But apart from all of that, a good deal.......


A 12v Makita with 2 batteries and 1 hour charger can be obtained for
about £110 and a 14.4v one for not much more...

My God!! Two 12v or 14.4v drills with 1 hr charger and two batteries can be
had for under this price with change and longer guarantees too. One breaks
pick up the other.

IMM wrote:

My God!! Two 12v or 14.4v drills with 1 hr charger and two batteries can be
had for under this price with change and longer guarantees too. One breaks
pick up the other.

It's like groundhog day!

--
Grunff

On Tue, 20 Apr 2004 14:32:24 +0100, "IMM" wrote:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message
.. .
On Tue, 20 Apr 2004 13:13:10 +0100, "Alan James"
wrote:



My advice is first go for a two battery pack with a 1hr timed charger.
No
need to pay more than £50 these days for a perfectly adequate deal unless
you have money to burn.

It's more the time that is burned replacing inadequate or broken
items, I've found. If you have to spend half a day resolving a
problem with one of these things, the effective cost is way more than
the saving, so I don't see the point.

I find my B&Q Performance Power Pro 12V fine for
general use. Its relatively light and well balanced and has good low
speed
control, however the batteries are 3hr charge and eventually got cooked.
The hammer action is a waste of time.

But apart from all of that, a good deal.......


A 12v Makita with 2 batteries and 1 hour charger can be obtained for
about £110 and a 14.4v one for not much more...

My God!!

What did you want?

Two 12v or 14.4v drills with 1 hr charger and two batteries can be
had for under this price with change and longer guarantees too. One breaks
pick up the other.

I was talking about cost of wasted time in invoking guarantees as well
as the difference in quality.

It's stupid to buy two cheap things that are going to break rather
than one decent one....






..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

On Tue, 20 Apr 2004 15:00:47 +0100, Andy Hall
wrote:

It's stupid to buy two cheap things that are going to break rather
than one decent one....

Even more stupid to buy one expensive item that breaks!

At the end of the day I have found the cheap stuff fine for "domestic
DIY" jobs.

If you are a professional then I can see there is possibly an argument
for paying a little more. Having said that a lot of professionals can
be seen in B&Q buying the cheap stuff!

sPoNiX

"P.R.Brady" wrote in message
...
Wainscotting wrote:
Want to buy a simple cordless drill/driver but would like information on
voltags vs price.Have seen (for instance) a Bosch PSR 1440 (14.4v) one
that
is around £50 but also there is a Bosch PSR 12ve (12 v) that is around
£70.
Is there any relationship between voltage and price at all? The Dewalt
range
is quite pricey so what do you get for your money with the? Thanks.


The odd thing about these devices is that voltage is not what should be
important
- wattage should be, just as with mains driven ones.

snip

think there's a bit more to it than that.

What you're after in a drill/driver is torque, and that appears to be a
function of the quality of the efficiency of the motor windings, gearing,
etc.

For instance, I have an old-ish (c 2001) Atlas Copco product flyer here -
their standard PES 12T drill (12v, 2Ah, NiCd, no hammer) gives max torque of
25Nm. The LocTor S variant of this drill uses the same battery but claims a
maximum torque of 50Nm!!

I had a 12v B&D drill/driver and after 2 1/2 years the battery was
knackered. It had a crude charger and took 3 hours to charge.

Replaced it with a 9.6v A-C drill a couple of years ago and that is now
still going as strong as the day I bought it, and this has had far, far
heavier use than the B&D ever had. Torque far exceeds the B&D one.

I'm sure that PPro are now much better than the DIY B&D that I had, but
after using this A-C drill I wouldn't go back to using "occasional use"
tools.

YMMV.

--
Richard Sampson

email me at
richard at olifant d-ot co do-t uk

In article , Andy Hall
writes

It's stupid to buy two cheap things that are going to break rather
than one decent one....

Indeed. Spot any resemblance to the Incredibly Moronic Masturbator and
his current "two boilers" hobbyhorse?

--
A. Top posters.
Q. What's the most annoying thing on Usenet?

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 20 Apr 2004 14:32:24 +0100, "IMM" wrote:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message
.. .
On Tue, 20 Apr 2004 13:13:10 +0100, "Alan James"
wrote:



My advice is first go for a two battery pack with a 1hr timed charger.
No
need to pay more than £50 these days for a perfectly adequate deal
unless
you have money to burn.

It's more the time that is burned replacing inadequate or broken
items, I've found. If you have to spend half a day resolving a
problem with one of these things, the effective cost is way more than
the saving, so I don't see the point.

I find my B&Q Performance Power Pro 12V fine for
general use. Its relatively light and well balanced and has good low
speed
control, however the batteries are 3hr charge and eventually got
cooked.
The hammer action is a waste of time.

But apart from all of that, a good deal.......


A 12v Makita with 2 batteries and 1 hour charger can be obtained for
about £110 and a 14.4v one for not much more...

My God!!

What did you want?

Two 12v or 14.4v drills with 1 hr charger and two batteries can be
had for under this price with change and longer guarantees too. One
breaks
pick up the other.

I was talking about cost of wasted time in invoking guarantees as well
as the difference in quality.

It's stupid to buy two cheap things that are going to break rather
than one decent one....

You are confused - as ever. What makes you think a PP Pro will break down
in a few months. Many people testify to the longevity of some of their
cheapish tools. maybe they are all out of step except you.

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 20 Apr 2004 14:32:24 +0100, "IMM" wrote:

snip


It's stupid to buy two cheap things that are going to break rather
than one decent one....


Not to mention ecological issues.


--
Richard Sampson

email me at
richard at olifant d-ot co do-t uk

"Mike Tomlinson" wrote in message
...
In article , Andy Hall
writes

It's stupid to buy two cheap things that are going to break rather
than one decent one....

Indeed. Spot any resemblance to the Incredibly Moronic Masturbator and
his current "two boilers" hobbyhorse?

You are not very bright at all. Get therapy. The NHS do it free.

"RichardS" noaccess@invalid wrote in message
. ..

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 20 Apr 2004 14:32:24 +0100, "IMM" wrote:

snip


It's stupid to buy two cheap things that are going to break rather
than one decent one....

Not to mention ecological issues.

Do power drills belch out smoke. Maybe you have an old steam powered one.

On Tue, 20 Apr 2004 14:48:34 GMT, (sPoNiX) wrote:

On Tue, 20 Apr 2004 15:00:47 +0100, Andy Hall
wrote:

It's stupid to buy two cheap things that are going to break rather
than one decent one....

Even more stupid to buy one expensive item that breaks!

It would be if it did, but I have never had a good quality branded
power tool break in under five years of use and it has then been
inexpensive to repair.


At the end of the day I have found the cheap stuff fine for "domestic
DIY" jobs.

It really depends on how much time you have to screw around with
replacing defective products and whether you mind about the handling
quality, ease of use and accuracy of a proper product.


If you are a professional then I can see there is possibly an argument
for paying a little more.

There's certainly an argument if you are a professional. In the
case of DIY, there is still a strong argument if you do'nt want to
waste time on getting cheap tools replaced. If it takes half a day
to go and do that, then any cost difference is wiped out.


Having said that a lot of professionals can
be seen in B&Q buying the cheap stuff!

I suppose that depends on your definition of "professional".....



sPoNiX

..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

On Tue, 20 Apr 2004 15:55:00 +0100, Mike Tomlinson
wrote:

In article , Andy Hall
writes

It's stupid to buy two cheap things that are going to break rather
than one decent one....

Indeed. Spot any resemblance to the Incredibly Moronic Masturbator and
his current "two boilers" hobbyhorse?

Of course.

Two boilers need two sets of tools to fix them.....



..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

"RichardS" noaccess@invalid wrote in message
. ..

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 20 Apr 2004 14:32:24 +0100, "IMM" wrote:

snip


It's stupid to buy two cheap things that are going to break rather
than one decent one....


Not to mention ecological issues.




Sigh, that should, of course, have read "environmental issues".

Serves me right for listening to the radio whilst typing....


--
Richard Sampson

email me at
richard at olifant d-ot co do-t uk

On Tue, 20 Apr 2004 12:37:22 +0100, Andy Hall
wrote:

I expect that God was too, when he saw IMM..... :-)

Accidents are rarely designed.

PoP

---
http://www.ukdiy.org.uk

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 20 Apr 2004 15:55:00 +0100, Mike Tomlinson
wrote:

In article , Andy Hall
writes

It's stupid to buy two cheap things that are going to break rather
than one decent one....

Indeed. Spot any resemblance to the Incredibly Moronic Masturbator and
his current "two boilers" hobbyhorse?

Of course.

Two boilers need two sets of tools to fix them.....

Wow, you an inexperienced DIYer.

On Tue, 20 Apr 2004 14:48:34 GMT, (sPoNiX) wrote:

At the end of the day I have found the cheap stuff fine for "domestic
DIY" jobs.

I have to say that several of my tools are from the cheaper end of the
market, and in general I'm happy with them.

The only one I splashed out on was to get a decent router because
buying the cheapo B&Q special was a definite no-no.

If you are a professional then I can see there is possibly an argument
for paying a little more. Having said that a lot of professionals can
be seen in B&Q buying the cheap stuff!

If it does the job, etc.

One of the issues that pro's have to deal with is that their kit gets
nicked from the back of vans etc. If it's got a badge on it then it's
worth something, but if it's a cheapo then it's next to worthless for
resale.

PoP

---
http://www.ukdiy.org.uk

"PoP" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 20 Apr 2004 12:37:22 +0100, Andy Hall
wrote:

I expect that God was too, when he saw IMM..... :-)

Accidents are rarely designed.

So yours was well engineered then.

In article ,
sPoNiX wrote:
Having said that a lot of professionals can
be seen in B&Q buying the cheap stuff!

I meet a fair few self employed chippies in the course of my work, and
I've yet to see one using a DIY cordless drill.

--
*If I worked as much as others, I would do as little as they *

Dave Plowman London SW 12
RIP Acorn

On Tue, 20 Apr 2004 16:12:08 +0100, "IMM" wrote:




You are confused - as ever. What makes you think a PP Pro will break down
in a few months.

How about seeing a bunch of them being dumped into a skip at the side
of a local store.....


Many people testify to the longevity of some of their
cheapish tools. maybe they are all out of step except you.


..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
news
On Tue, 20 Apr 2004 16:12:08 +0100, "IMM" wrote:




You are confused - as ever. What makes you think a PP Pro will break
down
in a few months.

How about seeing a bunch of them being dumped into a skip at the side
of a local store.....

You just made that up.

Many people testify to the longevity of some of their
cheapish tools. maybe they are all out of step except you.


.andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

"Andy Hall" wrote in message


The main thing is not the charger - it is the quality of the batteries
and of the motor controller and motor.

Get a drill like that with a respectable looking charger and not one of
those early bag of **** types of cheapo and you won't go far wrong.

If you get it from Maplins they will give you your moneuy back with no
quibble.


--
Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG

IMM wrote:

The NHS do it free.

Same policy on health care as power tools I see....

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Tue, 20 Apr 2004 20:03:18 +0100, "IMM" wrote:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message
news
On Tue, 20 Apr 2004 16:12:08 +0100, "IMM" wrote:




You are confused - as ever. What makes you think a PP Pro will break
down
in a few months.

How about seeing a bunch of them being dumped into a skip at the side
of a local store.....

You just made that up.


Nope....


..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

"IMM" wrote in message
...
Do you mean like a snake?
Hey IMM, our Tony is in the wars of late?

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 20 Apr 2004 20:03:18 +0100, "IMM" wrote:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message
news
On Tue, 20 Apr 2004 16:12:08 +0100, "IMM" wrote:




You are confused - as ever. What makes you think a PP Pro will break
down
in a few months.

How about seeing a bunch of them being dumped into a skip at the side
of a local store.....

You just made that up.

Nope....

You did.

I saw whole bunch of Makita's being thrown out too.

IMM wrote in message ...

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
.. .
On Tue, 20 Apr 2004 13:13:10 +0100, "Alan James"
wrote:


My God!! Two 12v or 14.4v drills with 1 hr charger and two batteries can
be
had for under this price with change and longer guarantees too. One breaks
pick up the other.


Hmm. It's the same purchasing philosophy as for combi boilers. Buy two
pieces of crap, because they are so unreliable. Ignore the fact that the
repair/replacement costs are going to negate any cost/efficiency savings you
think you have made.

Regards
Capitol

RichardS wrote in message .. .

Not to mention ecological issues.




Sigh, that should, of course, have read "environmental issues".

Serves me right for listening to the radio whilst typing....


No, you were correct in both posts. The factory making the cheap drills is
belching out the smoke. Two drill packages is two lots of smoke, then eight
more items thrown in the skip.

Regards
Capitol

"Capitol" wrote in message
...

IMM wrote in message ...

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
.. .
On Tue, 20 Apr 2004 13:13:10 +0100, "Alan James"
wrote:


My God!! Two 12v or 14.4v drills with 1 hr charger and two batteries can
be
had for under this price with change and longer guarantees too. One
breaks
pick up the other.


Hmm. It's the same purchasing philosophy as for combi boilers.

snip drivel

"Capitol" wrote in message
...

RichardS wrote in message
.. .

Not to mention ecological issues.

Sigh, that should, of course, have read "environmental issues".

Serves me right for listening to the radio whilst typing....

No, you were correct in both posts. The factory making the cheap drills is
belching out the smoke. Two drill packages is two lots of smoke, then
eight
more items thrown in the skip.

Which can be burnt to make useful heat for power and heat. Cor, are you
always this dumb.

On Tue, 20 Apr 2004 22:39:07 +0100, "IMM" wrote:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message
.. .
On Tue, 20 Apr 2004 20:03:18 +0100, "IMM" wrote:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message
news On Tue, 20 Apr 2004 16:12:08 +0100, "IMM" wrote:




You are confused - as ever. What makes you think a PP Pro will break
down
in a few months.

How about seeing a bunch of them being dumped into a skip at the side
of a local store.....

You just made that up.

Nope....

You did.

I saw whole bunch of Makita's being thrown out too.

Grow up.


..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

On Tue, 20 Apr 2004 22:39:07 +0100, "IMM" wrote:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message
.. .
On Tue, 20 Apr 2004 20:03:18 +0100, "IMM" wrote:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message
news On Tue, 20 Apr 2004 16:12:08 +0100, "IMM" wrote:




You are confused - as ever. What makes you think a PP Pro will break
down
in a few months.

How about seeing a bunch of them being dumped into a skip at the side
of a local store.....

You just made that up.

Nope....

It wouldn't be the first time...

http://tinyurl.com/2sefu


..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 20 Apr 2004 22:39:07 +0100, "IMM" wrote:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message
.. .
On Tue, 20 Apr 2004 20:03:18 +0100, "IMM" wrote:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message
news On Tue, 20 Apr 2004 16:12:08 +0100, "IMM"
wrote:




You are confused - as ever. What makes you think a PP Pro will
break
down
in a few months.

How about seeing a bunch of them being dumped into a skip at the
side
of a local store.....

You just made that up.

Nope....

You did.

I saw whole bunch of Makita's being thrown out too.

Grow up.

I did. I saw them being thrown out.

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 20 Apr 2004 22:39:07 +0100, "IMM" wrote:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message
.. .
On Tue, 20 Apr 2004 20:03:18 +0100, "IMM" wrote:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message
news On Tue, 20 Apr 2004 16:12:08 +0100, "IMM"
wrote:




You are confused - as ever. What makes you think a PP Pro will
break
down
in a few months.

How about seeing a bunch of them being dumped into a skip at the
side
of a local store.....

You just made that up.

Nope....

It wouldn't be the first time...

http://tinyurl.com/2sefu

You didn't see them you read Google. Those were PP tools not PP Pro.

On Wed, 21 Apr 2004 00:03:17 +0100, "IMM" wrote:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message
.. .


How about seeing a bunch of them being dumped into a skip at the
side
of a local store.....

You just made that up.

Nope....

It wouldn't be the first time...

http://tinyurl.com/2sefu

You didn't see them you read Google.

I know what I saw.

Those were PP tools not PP Pro.

It's the same junk with the same lack of support.

Call their help line and ask how to get any of these repaired like I
did. There was an embarrassed silence before they admitted that they
don't.





..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 21 Apr 2004 00:03:17 +0100, "IMM" wrote:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message
.. .


How about seeing a bunch of them being dumped into a skip at the
side
of a local store.....

You just made that up.

Nope....

It wouldn't be the first time...

http://tinyurl.com/2sefu

You didn't see them you read Google.

I know what I saw.

Those were PP tools not PP Pro.

It's the same junk with the same lack of support.

It isn't.

Call their help line and ask how to get any of these repaired like I
did. There was an embarrassed silence before they admitted that they
don't.

They guarantee the PP Pro range for 3 yrs, one yr with your overpriced
Makita. You don't need expensive repairs when they are so well priced.

On Wed, 21 Apr 2004 00:58:04 +0100, "IMM" wrote:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message
.. .
On Wed, 21 Apr 2004 00:03:17 +0100, "IMM" wrote:

How about seeing a bunch of them being dumped into a skip at the
side
of a local store.....

You just made that up.

Nope....

It wouldn't be the first time...

http://tinyurl.com/2sefu

You didn't see them you read Google.

I know what I saw.

Those were PP tools not PP Pro.

It's the same junk with the same lack of support.

It isn't.

It's behind you.......


Call their help line and ask how to get any of these repaired like I
did. There was an embarrassed silence before they admitted that they
don't.

They guarantee the PP Pro range for 3 yrs,

So what.?

one yr with your overpriced
Makita.
You don't need expensive repairs when they are so well priced.

I can appreciate that you don't understand the concepts of quality and
value for money and prefer to buy only on price. That's your
choice, but it does not produce the most cost effective outcome.

It's also interesting to note that on the one hand you run all of the
environmental arguments, while on the other espousing the very worst
aspects of the disposable economy.

A curious inconsistency at minimum, or perhaps the "H" word should
apply??


..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 21 Apr 2004 00:58:04 +0100, "IMM" wrote:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message
.. .
On Wed, 21 Apr 2004 00:03:17 +0100, "IMM" wrote:

How about seeing a bunch of them being dumped into a skip at
the
side
of a local store.....

You just made that up.

Nope....

It wouldn't be the first time...

http://tinyurl.com/2sefu

You didn't see them you read Google.

I know what I saw.

Those were PP tools not PP Pro.

It's the same junk with the same lack of support.

It isn't.

It's behind you.......


Call their help line and ask how to get any of these repaired like I
did. There was an embarrassed silence before they admitted that they
don't.

They guarantee the PP Pro range for 3 yrs,

So what.?

snip

On Wed, 21 Apr 2004 01:18:33 +0100, "IMM" wrote:


It isn't.

It's behind you.......


Call their help line and ask how to get any of these repaired like I
did. There was an embarrassed silence before they admitted that they
don't.

They guarantee the PP Pro range for 3 yrs,

So what.?

snip

Seemingly the Pontiff is a rastafarian again then......


..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl