Hi everyone,

Hope someone can help.

Following an earlier thread on here, I found out I needed to replace
the transformers on my halogen ceiling lights.

I got these ( same ones as original make ) and attached the wires on
the first one - red to brown, blue to black at the first connector from
the "main" cable. I then connected the other two ends which I
understand are effectively neither live or neutral. I did this on only
one of the non-working lights to check this fixed the problem

Which, of course, it didn't. It made it worse, in that not only did the
sole remaining light now not work but there was a short BUZZ coming
from *either* the transfromer itself or perhaps the light switch, it's
hard to tell.

I swapped the new transformer out for the old one, and the sole
remaining light worked again.

Any ideas what either I've done wrong, or if there might be some other
problem I need to consider? I guess that since I swapped the old
transformer back and the system works, it's not as simple as me having
wired it up incorrectly.

Many thanks in advance.

--
Dave Jennings
'89 VS 1400, '99 ZX6R www.cruiserclubcaledonia.com

"Dave Jennings" wrote in message
...
Hi everyone,

Hope someone can help.

Following an earlier thread on here, I found out I needed to replace
the transformers on my halogen ceiling lights.

I got these ( same ones as original make ) and attached the wires on
the first one - red to brown, blue to black at the first connector from
the "main" cable. I then connected the other two ends which I
understand are effectively neither live or neutral. I did this on only
one of the non-working lights to check this fixed the problem

Which, of course, it didn't. It made it worse, in that not only did the
sole remaining light now not work but there was a short BUZZ coming
from *either* the transfromer itself or perhaps the light switch, it's
hard to tell.

I swapped the new transformer out for the old one, and the sole
remaining light worked again.

Any ideas what either I've done wrong, or if there might be some other
problem I need to consider? I guess that since I swapped the old
transformer back and the system works, it's not as simple as me having
wired it up incorrectly.

Many thanks in advance.


Is the new transformer the exact same model or just the same make as the old
one?
If not, then it may be the wrong specification or as you say the buzzing may
be from the light switch - does the switch have a light dimmer? as they
usually only work with electronic transformers and maybe your new one isn't?

Dave

logized yik-yakked:

Is the new transformer the exact same model or just the same make as
the old one?
If not, then it may be the wrong specification or as you say the
buzzing may be from the light switch - does the switch have a light
dimmer? as they usually only work with electronic transformers and
maybe your new one isn't?

Dave

Hi ,

Same make, same specs - model number of the original no longer in use.

Buzzing definitely from the light switch, which does have a dimmer.

Both the original and replacement transformers are suitable for use
with dimmer switches.

Sorry if that makes it even more confusing!
--
Dave Jennings
'89 VS 1400, '99 ZX6R www.cruiserclubcaledonia.com

"Dave Jennings" wrote in message
...
Hi everyone,

Hope someone can help.

Following an earlier thread on here, I found out I needed to replace
the transformers on my halogen ceiling lights.

I got these ( same ones as original make ) and attached the wires on
the first one - red to brown, blue to black at the first connector from
the "main" cable. I then connected the other two ends which I
understand are effectively neither live or neutral. I did this on only
one of the non-working lights to check this fixed the problem

Which, of course, it didn't. It made it worse, in that not only did the
sole remaining light now not work but there was a short BUZZ coming
from *either* the transfromer itself or perhaps the light switch, it's
hard to tell.

I swapped the new transformer out for the old one, and the sole
remaining light worked again.

Any ideas what either I've done wrong, or if there might be some other
problem I need to consider? I guess that since I swapped the old
transformer back and the system works, it's not as simple as me having
wired it up incorrectly.

Many thanks in advance.

Dave Jennings


No!!! You've got me lost. What type of transformers are they? Are they
electronic or toriodial? Did the new trannies come with instructions? Help
me here, I'm struggling. :-))

"Dave Jennings" wrote in message
...
logized yik-yakked:

Is the new transformer the exact same model or just the same make as
the old one?
If not, then it may be the wrong specification or as you say the
buzzing may be from the light switch - does the switch have a light
dimmer? as they usually only work with electronic transformers and
maybe your new one isn't?

Dave

Hi ,

Same make, same specs - model number of the original no longer in use.

Buzzing definitely from the light switch, which does have a dimmer.

Both the original and replacement transformers are suitable for use
with dimmer switches.

Sorry if that makes it even more confusing!
--
Looks like there is some incompatibility even though the transformers appear
to be of equal spec to the old ones.
I think it would be a good idea for you to post the model and specs of the
transformer, dimmer and bulb wattage here and maybe someone can pinpoint the
problem.

Dave

On Wed, 24 Nov 2004 15:25:33 +0000 (UTC), "Dave Jennings"
strung together this:

Any ideas what either I've done wrong, or if there might be some other
problem I need to consider?

You did connect the input and output the right way round didn't you?
--

SJW
A.C.S. Ltd
Please reply to group or use 'usenet' in email subject

"Lurch" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 24 Nov 2004 15:25:33 +0000 (UTC), "Dave Jennings"
strung together this:

Any ideas what either I've done wrong, or if there might be some other
problem I need to consider?

You did connect the input and output the right way round didn't you?

SJW


It's the part about the buzzing noises he heard. Could it just have been
his ears? Or was the trannie buzzing as some do and the lamp was blown?
But then he says that none of the lights worked. I'm baffled to the point
that my brain hurts. :-))

On Wed, 24 Nov 2004 15:25:33 +0000 (UTC), "Dave Jennings"
wrote:

Any ideas what either I've done wrong,

You've mixed halogens and dimmers. Don't do this.

For an easy life, don't dim them.

For good lighting, don't dim them. Halogens don't like running at half
power. Switch 50W bulbs to 20W, turn them on and off in banks, but
don't run them dimmed.

Don't try and dim them unless you have some reasonable understanding
of electronics.

Some types of transformer (both transformers and electronic PSUs) just
can't be dimmed. If you do try it, these probably work at either full
or zero output, but could do anything in the middle, including some
really bad letting-the-smoke-out type failures.

Many electronic PSUs can be dimmed, and dimmed easily by attaching a
low-voltage variable resistor to them. If you're doing furniture or
desklamps, this can be the best and simplest way of getting dimming.

_Some_ PSUs, mainly transformers, but a few of the electronics too,
can be dimmed by a standard light dimmer. If it's not marked as such,
it can't.

Of the few PSUs that permit it, some still don't like being dimmed
(mainly the smaller transformers). They'll object by buzzing noisily.
If you do have a "buzzer", try swapping the dimmer. A more modern
dimmer with better output suppression may use zero voltage switching
(look for a CE or FCC mark). This reduces the output harmonics that
may cause buzzing.

If you're planning a dimmed installation, breadboard it first. It's
easier to find that it buzzes and needs redesign _before_ you've
buried the transformer in a ceiling void.
--
Smert' spamionam

logized yik-yakked:
--
Looks like there is some incompatibility even though the transformers
appear to be of equal spec to the old ones.
I think it would be a good idea for you to post the model and specs
of the transformer, dimmer and bulb wattage here and maybe someone
can pinpoint the problem.

Hi

OK, my mistake on ne part - different makes as original make wasn't
available from the wholesalers, but specs do seem same:

Original Transformer:

Platino brand, Model P 902

Electronic Transformer

240v, 50HZ, 60VA

20-60w

New transformer:

Lytlec brand, Model LDT 105

240V, 12v, 105VA

( Some of the specs on one don't match the other, and I'm a layman so
excuse me if this means nothing, I'm just reading the figures off! )

Dimmer is standard dimmer switch, which worked with all 4 bulbs and
still works on sole remaining bulb.

Using 50w bulbs.

Hope this is some help!

--
Dave Jennings
'89 VS 1400, '99 ZX6R www.cruiserclubcaledonia.com

BigWallop yik-yakked:

No!!! You've got me lost. What type of transformers are they? Are
they electronic or toriodial? Did the new trannies come with
instructions? Help me here, I'm struggling. :-))

Hi,

See post above for full details, thanks.
--
Dave Jennings
'89 VS 1400, '99 ZX6R www.cruiserclubcaledonia.com

"Dave Jennings" wrote in message
...
logized yik-yakked:
--
Looks like there is some incompatibility even though the transformers
appear to be of equal spec to the old ones.
I think it would be a good idea for you to post the model and specs
of the transformer, dimmer and bulb wattage here and maybe someone
can pinpoint the problem.

Hi

OK, my mistake on ne part - different makes as original make wasn't
available from the wholesalers, but specs do seem same:

Original Transformer:

Platino brand, Model P 902

Electronic Transformer

240v, 50HZ, 60VA

20-60w

New transformer:

Lytlec brand, Model LDT 105

240V, 12v, 105VA

( Some of the specs on one don't match the other, and I'm a layman so
excuse me if this means nothing, I'm just reading the figures off! )

Dimmer is standard dimmer switch, which worked with all 4 bulbs and
still works on sole remaining bulb.

Using 50w bulbs.

Hope this is some help!

The new transformer spec is plenty ok for a 50W bulb and the manufacturers
claim it can be dimmed with a standard dimmer - but I think at this point it
would be an idea to replace the dimmer with a standard light switch for now
and get the lights working with that.
If they then work ok, you would need a new dimmer - the "Standard" type is
usually only rated at 250W max and as your 4 lights + transformers would
probably overload it - upgrade to a 400Watt type that specifies it is
suitable for dimming any type of low voltage Halogens.
See this guide -
http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Technica...immerGuide.htm

Dave

"logized" wrote in message
...

"Dave Jennings" wrote in message
...
logized yik-yakked:
--
Looks like there is some incompatibility even though the transformers
appear to be of equal spec to the old ones.
I think it would be a good idea for you to post the model and specs
of the transformer, dimmer and bulb wattage here and maybe someone
can pinpoint the problem.

Hi

OK, my mistake on ne part - different makes as original make wasn't
available from the wholesalers, but specs do seem same:

Original Transformer:

Platino brand, Model P 902

Electronic Transformer

240v, 50HZ, 60VA

20-60w

New transformer:

Lytlec brand, Model LDT 105

240V, 12v, 105VA

( Some of the specs on one don't match the other, and I'm a layman so
excuse me if this means nothing, I'm just reading the figures off! )

Dimmer is standard dimmer switch, which worked with all 4 bulbs and
still works on sole remaining bulb.

Using 50w bulbs.

Hope this is some help!

The new transformer spec is plenty ok for a 50W bulb and the manufacturers
claim it can be dimmed with a standard dimmer - but I think at this point
it would be an idea to replace the dimmer with a standard light switch for
now and get the lights working with that.
If they then work ok, you would need a new dimmer - the "Standard" type is
usually only rated at 250W max and as your 4 lights + transformers would
probably overload it - upgrade to a 400Watt type that specifies it is
suitable for dimming any type of low voltage Halogens.
See this guide -
http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Technica...immerGuide.htm

Dave


One further note - the new transformer could be used to power 2 x 50W bulbs
and this may be necessary as the above datasheet specifies a max of 3 x
105VA "normal" quality transformers can be used with a 400W dimmer.

Dave

Lurch yik-yakked:
You did connect the input and output the right way round didn't you?


OK, so this is either a serious question, or a pi**take of a numptie
like myself! I'll rise to the bait, just in case.

As I understand it, the unit can be wired either way - is that wrong?
The instructions don't make any mention of this, i.e. which "end"
connects to the main feed and which end connects to the bulb unit.
Is this the case?

--
Dave Jennings
'89 VS 1400, '99 ZX6R www.cruiserclubcaledonia.com

Andy Dingley yik-yakked: ( major snippage )

You've mixed halogens and dimmers. Don't do this.

Technically, the sparky who put them in originally has! And they worked
fine for two years this way.


For an easy life, don't dim them.

Very rarely did, usually just flicked them on full.

_Some_ PSUs, mainly transformers, but a few of the electronics too,
can be dimmed by a standard light dimmer. If it's not marked as such,
it can't.

Both the original and the replacement are marked as "suitable for
dimmers".

As for the rest of your post, I have less than no idea what it means,
but it's very impressive!

Thanks for your helpful comments, I really appreciate them!

--
Dave Jennings
'89 VS 1400, '99 ZX6R www.cruiserclubcaledonia.com

logized yik-yakked:
The new transformer spec is plenty ok for a 50W bulb and the
manufacturers claim it can be dimmed with a standard dimmer - but I
think at this point it would be an idea to replace the dimmer with a
standard light switch for now and get the lights working with that.
If they then work ok, you would need a new dimmer - the "Standard"
type is usually only rated at 250W max and as your 4 lights +
transformers would probably overload it - upgrade to a 400Watt type
that specifies it is suitable for dimming any type of low voltage
Halogens. See this guide -
http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Technica.../DimmerGuide.h


Aha. So the buzzing from the switch indicates that the dimmer unit
isn't up to the mark, posibly. Cunning!

OK, I'll try that tomorrow, thanks.



--
Dave Jennings
'89 VS 1400, '99 ZX6R www.cruiserclubcaledonia.com

logized yik-yakked:

One further note - the new transformer could be used to power 2 x 50W
bulbs and this may be necessary as the above datasheet specifies a
max of 3 x 105VA "normal" quality transformers can be used with a
400W dimmer.


OK, so if my feeble mind is taking this in, if I *do* decide to use a
dimmer ( and frankly, I'm not fussed as we rarely used it anyway ) then
I'd need to wire two of the bulbs into the one transformer, reducing
the transformers on the "line" from 4 to 3, is that correct?

If it is, then it's too much for me, and if all I'm gaining is a dimmer
I don't often use, then not that big a deal.

Or have I totally grasped the wrong end of the stick?
( Which is the likely bet! )

--
Dave Jennings
'89 VS 1400, '99 ZX6R www.cruiserclubcaledonia.com

"Dave Jennings" wrote in message
...
Lurch yik-yakked:
You did connect the input and output the right way round didn't you?


OK, so this is either a serious question, or a pi**take of a numptie
like myself! I'll rise to the bait, just in case.

As I understand it, the unit can be wired either way - is that wrong?
The instructions don't make any mention of this, i.e. which "end"
connects to the main feed and which end connects to the bulb unit.
Is this the case?

They are usually clearly marked similar to this product -
http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Images/P..._3/TLET105.JPG
It should indicate which is 230V AC input and which is 12V Output.

Dave

"Dave Jennings" wrote in message
...
logized yik-yakked:

One further note - the new transformer could be used to power 2 x 50W
bulbs and this may be necessary as the above datasheet specifies a
max of 3 x 105VA "normal" quality transformers can be used with a
400W dimmer.


OK, so if my feeble mind is taking this in, if I *do* decide to use a
dimmer ( and frankly, I'm not fussed as we rarely used it anyway ) then
I'd need to wire two of the bulbs into the one transformer, reducing
the transformers on the "line" from 4 to 3, is that correct?

If it is, then it's too much for me, and if all I'm gaining is a dimmer
I don't often use, then not that big a deal.

Or have I totally grasped the wrong end of the stick?
( Which is the likely bet! )

--

In that case, just fit a standard light switch and replace each faulty
transformer with one of the new ones and it should save you any bother with
dimmers or rewiring.

(Before you connect the new transformers - take note of the comment from
"Lurch" - he has a good point about the possibility you may have connected
them the wrong way round.)


Dave

logized yik-yakked:

They are usually clearly marked similar to this product -
http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Images/P..._3/TLET105.JPG
It should indicate which is 230V AC input and which is 12V Output.


Between that and the switch, I'm sure it'll be a piece of cake!

Watch out for tomorrows posting - how to repair fire damaged
plasterboard!!

Thanks everyone, I'll post back how it goes.

Dave.
--
Dave Jennings
'89 VS 1400, '99 ZX6R www.cruiserclubcaledonia.com

On Wed, 24 Nov 2004 19:28:13 +0000 (UTC), "Dave Jennings"
strung together this:

OK, so this is either a serious question, or a pi**take of a numptie
like myself! I'll rise to the bait, just in case.

Quite serious, I've seen them go in the wrong way which will fry them
pretty much instantly.

As I understand it, the unit can be wired either way - is that wrong?

Yes, one pair of wires is the 230V input and the other pair is the 12V
output. Get them the wrong way round and the magical blue smoke
escapes!

The instructions don't make any mention of this, i.e. which "end"
connects to the main feed and which end connects to the bulb unit.
Is this the case?

They should be clearly marked on the transformer itself, I haven't
come across one that isn't yet, and I know this because I have never
read a set of instructions fo a low voltage transformer so I must have
got the information off the unit itself!
--

SJW
A.C.S. Ltd
Please reply to group or use 'usenet' in email subject