I have a 1983 VW Passat GL5 which is in reasonable condition barring
some serious rust on the training edges of the doors and the tailgate.
Professional repairers seem reluctant to take on repairs like this -
they want to replace the doors (possible) and the tailgate (not
possible to buy new tailgate now).
I'm considering doing the repairs myself and I'd like to hear from
anyone who has experience of this kind of job in relation to materials
and methods.
I'm realistic about what I can expect to achieve - I just want a
passable job to keep the car legal. If it turns out really well,
that's a bonus.

Thanks.

"Reuben" wrote in message
m...
I have a 1983 VW Passat GL5 which is in reasonable condition barring
some serious rust on the training edges of the doors and the tailgate.
Professional repairers seem reluctant to take on repairs like this -
they want to replace the doors (possible) and the tailgate (not
possible to buy new tailgate now).
I'm considering doing the repairs myself and I'd like to hear from
anyone who has experience of this kind of job in relation to materials
and methods.
I'm realistic about what I can expect to achieve - I just want a
passable job to keep the car legal. If it turns out really well,
that's a bonus.

Thanks.

Haynes do a body work repair manual that used to include these sort of
repairs from the american angle, basically they suggest cutting away the
rusty stuff and reforming the edges as closely as possible in steel or
aluminium and fill to make it look ok. amking it look really good is very
difficult though, which is why pro body places don't take it on here, the
labour costs get ridiculous.

mrcheerful

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Reuben wrote:

I have a 1983 VW Passat GL5 which is in reasonable condition barring
some serious rust on the training edges of the doors and the tailgate.
Professional repairers seem reluctant to take on repairs like this -
they want to replace the doors (possible) and the tailgate (not
possible to buy new tailgate now).
I'm considering doing the repairs myself and I'd like to hear from
anyone who has experience of this kind of job in relation to materials
and methods.
I'm realistic about what I can expect to achieve - I just want a
passable job to keep the car legal. If it turns out really well,
that's a bonus.

Thanks.

Have you tried breakers yards for second-hand doors and tailgates which
might be in a better condition than yours?

By keeping the car legal, I presume you mean remove sharp rusty edges which
could be dangerous. What is written below is ok from that perspective but
does *not* apply to anything structural - like chassis members - which would
need to be welded.

If you want to repair the panels, you need to:
* remove paint and flaking rust from the affected areas
* treat the rust with phosphoric acid to stop it spreading
* indent the edges of any holes, and stick sheets of fireglass matting,
soaked in fibreglass resin, on the back of the panel [disposable gloves
essential for this!]
* once the resin has hardened, spread filler over the front surface
* when the filler has hardened, sand it to shape, blending in with
surrounding metalwork
* prime and paint the finished surface [It really needs spraying, for which
you *might* get away with aerosols provided the areas are fairly small and
you do it on a wind-free day].
--
Cheers,
Set Square
______
Please reply to newsgroup. Reply address is invalid.

Subject: Old car body repairs - advice sought...
From: "Set Square"
Date: 04/10/2004 18:06 GMT Standard Time
Message-id:

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Reuben wrote:

I have a 1983 VW Passat GL5 which is in reasonable condition barring
some serious rust on the training edges of the doors and the tailgate.
Professional repairers seem reluctant to take on repairs like this -
they want to replace the doors (possible) and the tailgate (not
possible to buy new tailgate now).
I'm considering doing the repairs myself and I'd like to hear from
anyone who has experience of this kind of job in relation to materials
and methods.
I'm realistic about what I can expect to achieve - I just want a
passable job to keep the car legal. If it turns out really well,
that's a bonus.

Thanks.

Have you tried breakers yards for second-hand doors and tailgates which
might be in a better condition than yours?

By keeping the car legal, I presume you mean remove sharp rusty edges which
could be dangerous. What is written below is ok from that perspective but
does *not* apply to anything structural - like chassis members - which would
need to be welded.

If you want to repair the panels, you need to:
* remove paint and flaking rust from the affected areas
* treat the rust with phosphoric acid to stop it spreading
* indent the edges of any holes, and stick sheets of fireglass matting,
soaked in fibreglass resin, on the back of the panel [disposable gloves
essential for this!]
* once the resin has hardened, spread filler over the front surface
* when the filler has hardened, sand it to shape, blending in with
surrounding metalwork
* prime and paint the finished surface [It really needs spraying, for which
you *might* get away with aerosols provided the areas are fairly small and
you do it on a wind-free day].
--
Cheers,
Set Square
______
Please reply to newsgroup. Reply address is invalid.


This is all excellent advice. After spraying, rub down with wet'n'dry paper
(wet of course) and spray again. Repeat until you get a reasonably even paint
finish. The rub hard with brasso to get a glossy shine.

On 4 Oct 2004 10:46:17 -0700, (Reuben) wrote:

I have a 1983 VW Passat GL5 which is in reasonable condition barring
some serious rust on the training edges of the doors and the tailgate.
Professional repairers seem reluctant to take on repairs like this -
they want to replace the doors (possible) and the tailgate (not
possible to buy new tailgate now).
I'm considering doing the repairs myself and I'd like to hear from
anyone who has experience of this kind of job in relation to materials
and methods.
I'm realistic about what I can expect to achieve - I just want a
passable job to keep the car legal. If it turns out really well,
that's a bonus.

First, you should forget about using fibre glass, resin, filler, and
suchlike. It's okay for surface dents and blemishes, but not where
structural strength has been compromised by rust. The most fun you can
have with a welding torch is brazing! You can inset pieces of sheet
metal and braze them in, thereby restoring (and probably improving)
the original structure - although be aware of any designed-in crumple
zones. Brazing is easier to learn than welding, and it really is a
pleasure seeing the molten brazing rod pool out and flow into the
join. DON'T do any welding/brazing in situ (or in an enclosed space)
unless you have someone to watch out for fire hazards. Be careful
about petrol and oily rags. Treat oxy-acetylene bottles with the
utmost respect. They are like bombs.

Obviously you have to have some solid metal to braze on to! It depends
how far gone a panel is. When I was doing my apprenticeship (forty
years ago now) we didn't even use Isopon at all. The correct way was
to melt large bars of solder on to the panel, then smooth it down with
a rasp. Stopper on top, then primer surface etc.

MM

"Reuben" wrote in message
m...
I have a 1983 VW Passat GL5 which is in reasonable condition barring
some serious rust on the training edges of the doors and the tailgate.
Professional repairers seem reluctant to take on repairs like this -
they want to replace the doors (possible) and the tailgate (not
possible to buy new tailgate now).
I'm considering doing the repairs myself and I'd like to hear from
anyone who has experience of this kind of job in relation to materials
and methods.
I'm realistic about what I can expect to achieve - I just want a
passable job to keep the car legal. If it turns out really well,
that's a bonus.

Thanks.

==================
These are cosmetic repairs and the simplest and cheapest method is to cut
away the rusted sections and replace with new metal pop rivetted into place.
Basically use a pair of tin snips to cut away the damaged material and then
cut a cardboard pattern to cut replacements from new metal. Most car spares
shops sell sheets of suitable repair metal - Zintec is the best if you can
get it. Make sure that there is sufficient overlap on the replacement metal
(at least 1") and feed it *under* the original metal. Clamp the new to the
old as well as you can and drill 1/8" holes through both layers for your pop
rivets (stick to 1/8" rivets). If you need to put a lip on - e.g. for a
door edge prepare a bend in the new metal before starting the clamping /
rivetting. Finish off the new door edge by hammering or crimping with
pliers or mole wrench.

When you're sure that your new patch is securely rivetted clean the whole
area and do a cosmetic finish with body filler and spray with aerosols to
finish off. If possible try to hammer in the heads of the pop rivets so
that the body filler covers them.

If the rusted areas are quite small you can use thin mesh instead of metal.
You can buy this with 'Isopon' etc or separately. Clean the area to be
repaired - remove all paint and rust. Then use a little body filler (Isopon
or similar) to hold the mesh in place. Allow to set and then use more filler
to complete the job.

Don't be tempted to use either of these methods on anything structural -
they're for cosmetic use only.

Cic.

The most fun you can
have with a welding torch is brazing!

Brazing is easier to learn than welding, and it really is a
pleasure seeing the molten brazing rod pool out and flow into the
join.

Treat oxy-acetylene bottles with the
utmost respect. They are like bombs.

I just happen to have an oxy-acetylene kit here in the sideboard - been
wondering what to do with it.

Really - let's keep our feet on the ground, shall we?

Mike Mitchell wrote:

Treat oxy-acetylene bottles with the
utmost respect. They are like bombs.

They are nothing like bombs.


--
Grunff

Reuben wrote:

I have a 1983 VW Passat GL5 which is in reasonable condition barring
some serious rust on the training edges of the doors and the tailgate.
Professional repairers seem reluctant to take on repairs like this -
they want to replace the doors (possible) and the tailgate (not
possible to buy new tailgate now).
I'm considering doing the repairs myself and I'd like to hear from
anyone who has experience of this kind of job in relation to materials
and methods.
I'm realistic about what I can expect to achieve - I just want a
passable job to keep the car legal. If it turns out really well,
that's a bonus.

As others have said, by far the best result will be obtained by
replacing the doors and tailgate. Phone around your local scrappies.
Someone will have a suitable donor with reasonable panels.

--
Grunff

"Grunff" wrote in message
...
Mike Mitchell wrote:

Treat oxy-acetylene bottles with the
utmost respect. They are like bombs.

They are nothing like bombs.


Well the oxygen one is, in the wrong hands.

As for using oxy-acetylene on car body repairs, forget it, Mig (or Tig) is
the only way to go - unless you like sorting out distortion.

obviously if you now what you are doing that, yes, oxy-acetylene can be used
but then the OP would not be asking here....

Mike Mitchell typed:

but not where
structural strength has been compromised by rust. The most fun you can
have with a welding torch is brazing! You can inset pieces of sheet
metal and braze them in,

Did you really mean brazing ?
if so, its an MOT failure in anything considered structural.

they want to replace the doors (possible) and the tailgate (not
possible to buy new tailgate now).

Have you tried breakers yards for second-hand doors and tailgates which
might be in a better condition than yours?

I'm surprised anyone would even consider anything else. With a bit of luck
and a bit of searching, it might even be possible to match the colour. One
big draw to driving an old car is that you don't need to feel bad about
using second hand parts. If you have the space to keep it, you could buy a
complete vehicle (for spares) for the cost of a new door.

In article ,
Mike Mitchell wrote:
You can inset pieces of sheet metal and braze them in, thereby restoring
(and probably improving) the original structure

Brazed repairs aren't allowed in structural areas. They must be seam
welded if a patch - or if replacing a complete panel, spot welding is ok
if that was used originally.

--
*Some days you're the dog, some days the hydrant.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article , "Mark" mark@
127.0.0.1 says...
Mike Mitchell typed:

but not where
structural strength has been compromised by rust. The most fun you can
have with a welding torch is brazing! You can inset pieces of sheet
metal and braze them in,

Did you really mean brazing ?
if so, its an MOT failure in anything considered structural.


Door skins are hardly structural, are they?

In article , "Reuben"
says...
I have a 1983 VW Passat GL5 which is in reasonable condition barring
some serious rust on the training edges of the doors and the tailgate.
Professional repairers seem reluctant to take on repairs like this -
they want to replace the doors (possible) and the tailgate (not
possible to buy new tailgate now).
I'm considering doing the repairs myself and I'd like to hear from
anyone who has experience of this kind of job in relation to materials
and methods.
I'm realistic about what I can expect to achieve - I just want a
passable job to keep the car legal. If it turns out really well,
that's a bonus.

You will need:
angle grinder with a selection of disks, MIG welder
tin snips, hammer, pliers, workbench
sheet(s) of steel
rust treatment, filler, paint, sanding block and abrasive sheets

First run a coarse linishing disk over the crusty areas to remove all
flaking paint and rust until you reach something vaguely resembling
steel. If the edges of the frame are still mostly there you can just
treat them with Kurust, if not you will need to weld in patches to
restore the shape of the edge. Tidy up the hole in the skin with snips,
cutting back until you reach something that looks like it will weld.
Make up a patch using similar weight steel (something like 26SWG?) and
fold the edges that sit on the frame to about 90 degrees so it sits
snugly. Tuck under the cut-away skin and tack-weld securely in place -
don't try to run a seam weld as you'll probably end up with lots of
distortion and burning. Linish any blobs of weld so you can hide them
under a thin skim of filler, but be careful not to go through the skin.
Fold the edges tightly around the frame (no need to weld). Treat all
the exposed edges with Kurust. Wipe a thin layer of polyester filler
over the weld and sand it smooth. Paint.

Reuben wrote in message
m...
I have a 1983 VW Passat GL5 which is in reasonable condition barring
some serious rust on the training edges of the doors and the tailgate.
Professional repairers seem reluctant to take on repairs like this -
they want to replace the doors (possible) and the tailgate (not
possible to buy new tailgate now).
I'm considering doing the repairs myself and I'd like to hear from
anyone who has experience of this kind of job in relation to materials
and methods.
I'm realistic about what I can expect to achieve - I just want a
passable job to keep the car legal. If it turns out really well,
that's a bonus.

You could try asking in uk.rec.cars.maintenance. They might even know of a
professional repairer in your area that will take on the job. If not, then
you will get advice form someone who has done it before. There is a lot to
be wary of if you are dealing with serious rust.

Jim

On 04 Oct 2004 21:16:23 GMT, (Paper2002AD) wrote:

The most fun you can
have with a welding torch is brazing!

Brazing is easier to learn than welding, and it really is a
pleasure seeing the molten brazing rod pool out and flow into the
join.

Treat oxy-acetylene bottles with the
utmost respect. They are like bombs.

I just happen to have an oxy-acetylene kit here in the sideboard - been
wondering what to do with it.

Really - let's keep our feet on the ground, shall we?

Alternatively, tie yourself to the bottles, and whoosh!

MM

On Mon, 04 Oct 2004 22:29:19 +0100, Grunff wrote:

Mike Mitchell wrote:

Treat oxy-acetylene bottles with the
utmost respect. They are like bombs.

They are nothing like bombs.

You don't have a clue. The fire brigade are always warning of hazards
like oxy-acetylene bottles in workshops everywhere, especially when
they are called out to put a fire out. How do you think a fireman
feels to be told that in the conflagration there will be a couple -
maybe several - of such bottles? The fireman typically play water on
them for ages to reduce the risk of explosion.

MM

On Mon, 4 Oct 2004 22:45:09 +0100, ":::Jerry::::"
wrote:


"Grunff" wrote in message
...
Mike Mitchell wrote:

Treat oxy-acetylene bottles with the
utmost respect. They are like bombs.

They are nothing like bombs.


Well the oxygen one is, in the wrong hands.

As for using oxy-acetylene on car body repairs, forget it, Mig (or Tig) is
the only way to go - unless you like sorting out distortion.

Nonsense. Oxy-acetylene welding and brazing have been used for decades
on car and truck bodies.

MM

Mike Mitchell wrote:

Treat oxy-acetylene bottles with the
utmost respect. They are like bombs.

They are nothing like bombs.


You don't have a clue. The fire brigade are always warning of hazards
like oxy-acetylene bottles in workshops everywhere, especially when
they are called out to put a fire out. How do you think a fireman
feels to be told that in the conflagration there will be a couple -
maybe several - of such bottles? The fireman typically play water on
them for ages to reduce the risk of explosion.


That doesn't make them 'like bombs'. By your reasoning a can of
deoderant is 'like a bomb', and should be treated with utmost respect.
Many things are perfectly safe in everday use, but become dangerous
under extreme conditions.

--
Grunff

On Tue, 5 Oct 2004 00:08:24 +0100, Rob Morley
wrote:

In article , "Mark" mark@
127.0.0.1 says...
Mike Mitchell typed:

but not where
structural strength has been compromised by rust. The most fun you can
have with a welding torch is brazing! You can inset pieces of sheet
metal and braze them in,

Did you really mean brazing ?
if so, its an MOT failure in anything considered structural.


Door skins are hardly structural, are they?

Nothing is structural about a modern monocoque body. The whole point
is that the flimsy bits of sheet metal comprise structural stabilty -
and designed-in crumple zones - together. Just having the doors and
tailgate closed increases the structural integrity enormously.

I wouldn't fancy my chances in an accident if I knew there was this
very solid "ladder" of a chassis about to slice my vehicle (and me) in
two. Structure is for the birds, really. It's just the way Bentley
built the world's fastest lorries, according to Bugatti. I believe my
erstwhile Morris 8 Series E was one of the first British designs to
use monocoque construction.

MM

On Mon, 04 Oct 2004 23:23:25 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
Mike Mitchell wrote:
You can inset pieces of sheet metal and braze them in, thereby restoring
(and probably improving) the original structure

Brazed repairs aren't allowed in structural areas. They must be seam
welded if a patch - or if replacing a complete panel, spot welding is ok
if that was used originally.

We also replicated spot welding, for instance where it was difficult
to get the spot welding tips in, by drilling spot-weld size holes,
then welding through. Yes, of course I would not use brazing for
spring hangers, brackets, subframes etc. God, I lost count of how many
rear Mini subframes I replaced - atrociously bad design.

MM

On Mon, 04 Oct 2004 22:30:46 +0100, Grunff wrote:

Reuben wrote:

I have a 1983 VW Passat GL5 which is in reasonable condition barring
some serious rust on the training edges of the doors and the tailgate.
Professional repairers seem reluctant to take on repairs like this -
they want to replace the doors (possible) and the tailgate (not
possible to buy new tailgate now).
I'm considering doing the repairs myself and I'd like to hear from
anyone who has experience of this kind of job in relation to materials
and methods.
I'm realistic about what I can expect to achieve - I just want a
passable job to keep the car legal. If it turns out really well,
that's a bonus.

As others have said, by far the best result will be obtained by
replacing the doors and tailgate. Phone around your local scrappies.
Someone will have a suitable donor with reasonable panels.

Yes, but what if there *are* no such replacement panels available
anywhere?

MM

Mike Mitchell wrote:

Yes, but what if there *are* no such replacement panels available
anywhere?


That's a meaningless question - it's a 1983 VW Passat.

--
Grunff

"Mike Mitchell" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 4 Oct 2004 22:45:09 +0100, ":::Jerry::::"
wrote:


"Grunff" wrote in message
...
Mike Mitchell wrote:

Treat oxy-acetylene bottles with the
utmost respect. They are like bombs.

They are nothing like bombs.


Well the oxygen one is, in the wrong hands.

As for using oxy-acetylene on car body repairs, forget it, Mig (or Tig)
is
the only way to go - unless you like sorting out distortion.

Nonsense.

Yes you do talk utter nonsense...

Oxy-acetylene welding and brazing have been used for decades
on car and truck bodies.


But not within the last 20 years or so, Mig and Tig are used as
Oxy-acetylene welding and brazing cause to much distortion (especially on
modern sheet metals). Go and walk into any, modern, car bodyshop and ask if
you don't believe me...

"Grunff" wrote in message
...
Mike Mitchell wrote:

Treat oxy-acetylene bottles with the
utmost respect. They are like bombs.

They are nothing like bombs.


You don't have a clue. The fire brigade are always warning of hazards
like oxy-acetylene bottles in workshops everywhere, especially when
they are called out to put a fire out. How do you think a fireman
feels to be told that in the conflagration there will be a couple -
maybe several - of such bottles? The fireman typically play water on
them for ages to reduce the risk of explosion.


That doesn't make them 'like bombs'. By your reasoning a can of
deoderant is 'like a bomb', and should be treated with utmost respect.
Many things are perfectly safe in everday use, but become dangerous
under extreme conditions.


So, yes, they do need treating with respect. Many people go out and
'collect' this sort of equipment whilst having little or no knowledge safe
handling (in the broad sense of the word) and then use them without a clue.
I once came across a oxy-acetylene rig were the anti-flash back arresters
had been installed at the torch end and not regulator ends of the hoses, if
'professional' can make stupid mistakes like that just think what mistakes
those that are clueless could make.

They are not bombs, but they dammed well are potential bombs in the wrong
hands.

In article ,
Mike Mitchell wrote:
As for using oxy-acetylene on car body repairs, forget it, Mig (or Tig)
is the only way to go - unless you like sorting out distortion.

Nonsense. Oxy-acetylene welding and brazing have been used for decades
on car and truck bodies.

Eh? Since car bodies became unitary construction, spot welding is the norm
in production. And repairing a panel without distortion with oxy-acetylene
welding is said to be very difficult in all the books I've read.

Besides, a MIG welder is the cheaper option.

--


Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Mike Mitchell" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 5 Oct 2004 00:08:24 +0100, Rob Morley
wrote:

In article , "Mark" mark@
127.0.0.1 says...
Mike Mitchell typed:

but not where
structural strength has been compromised by rust. The most fun you
can
have with a welding torch is brazing! You can inset pieces of sheet
metal and braze them in,

Did you really mean brazing ?
if so, its an MOT failure in anything considered structural.


Door skins are hardly structural, are they?

Nothing is structural about a modern monocoque body.
snip

CTFL.........

Talk about ROFLOWPMS....

You are nothing but a trolling idiot if you think that, there is far more
structural metal work in a modern monocoque body - far more than there ever
has been as there is less metal used so all of what metal is used
contributes to the structural strength of the body shell.

"Mike Mitchell" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 04 Oct 2004 23:23:25 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
Mike Mitchell wrote:
You can inset pieces of sheet metal and braze them in, thereby
restoring
(and probably improving) the original structure

Brazed repairs aren't allowed in structural areas. They must be seam
welded if a patch - or if replacing a complete panel, spot welding is ok
if that was used originally.

We also replicated spot welding, for instance where it was difficult
to get the spot welding tips in, by drilling spot-weld size holes,
then welding through. Yes, of course I would not use brazing for
spring hangers, brackets, subframes etc. God, I lost count of how many
rear Mini subframes I replaced - atrociously bad design.


I suggest that you radically update you skills set if you are regularly
using brazing to attach panels to modern cars, there are very few places
were braze is used nowadays in the building of a modern bodyshell and were
it is used it does not attach the panel - rather it is used to finish off a
seam etc.

"Grunff" wrote in message
...
Mike Mitchell wrote:

Yes, but what if there *are* no such replacement panels available
anywhere?


That's a meaningless question - it's a 1983 VW Passat.


How many 'good' 1983 VW Passat have you seen lately, any such panels that
are in scrap yards now will more than likely be in the same state of
dis-repair as the original panels needing replacement....

:::Jerry:::: wrote:

How many 'good' 1983 VW Passat have you seen lately, any such panels that
are in scrap yards now will more than likely be in the same state of
dis-repair as the original panels needing replacement....


You can always find something. I once found a replacement door for my
old GSA (which was 18 years old at the time), and those things came
pre-rusted from the factory.

Point is, with an old banger like that there is no point in a) paying
someone to repair it or b) spending 40 hours minimum doing a good job of
the doors and tailgate.

--
Grunff

"Grunff" wrote in message
...
:::Jerry:::: wrote:

How many 'good' 1983 VW Passat have you seen lately, any such panels
that
are in scrap yards now will more than likely be in the same state of
dis-repair as the original panels needing replacement....


You can always find something. I once found a replacement door for my
old GSA (which was 18 years old at the time), and those things came
pre-rusted from the factory.

Point is, with an old banger like that there is no point in a) paying
someone to repair it or b) spending 40 hours minimum doing a good job of
the doors and tailgate.


But there is no point in spending good money on old houses either, just go
out an buy a new Barrette (sp?) one...

The point I'm trying to make here is that the car is worth what it would
cost the OP to replace it, could he buy a good second-hand car for the price
it would cost to have the old car repaired, also there is the saying -
'Better the devil you know than the one you don't', if the old car is still
going strong mechanically there might be good reason to spend some money on
the body work and getting two, three or more years longer out of the car
IYSWIM.

:::Jerry:::: wrote:

But there is no point in spending good money on old houses either, just go
out an buy a new Barrette (sp?) one...

The point I'm trying to make here is that the car is worth what it would
cost the OP to replace it, could he buy a good second-hand car for the price
it would cost to have the old car repaired, also there is the saying -
'Better the devil you know than the one you don't', if the old car is still
going strong mechanically there might be good reason to spend some money on
the body work and getting two, three or more years longer out of the car
IYSWIM.


Hmm, only to some extent. Houses don't wear in the same way as cars.
Cars have fairly short operational lives by design, whereas houses have
relatively much longer lives.

--
Grunff

On Tue, 5 Oct 2004 09:28:41 +0100, ":::Jerry::::"
wrote:

Oxy-acetylene welding and brazing cause to much distortion (especially on
modern sheet metals).

Then learn how to do it right.

Go and walk into any, modern, car bodyshop and ask if
you don't believe me...

A bodyshop for modern cars ? Of course not - they barely weld at all.
Modern cars don't rust (just remember the nasty old lace-curtain
Escorts of 20 years ago), cars are so relatively cheap to buy that we
just don't bother fixing the rough ones any more, and most bodywork
that still gets done is simple panel-swapping accident repairs under
insurance. MIG is used because it's _quick_, not because it's any
better. And I've never seen TIG in a high-street garage.

Walk round to the railway arches and Old Bob's Beetle and Moggy Minor
emporium and you'll see oxy-acetylene in use though. How else are you
going to work those big curved panels, or shrink a spot ?

I've got two oxy-acetylene rigs here, propane and oxy-propane too, and
I'm a woodworker !

--
Smert' spamionam

On Tue, 05 Oct 2004 09:03:22 +0100, Grunff wrote:

That doesn't make them 'like bombs'. By your reasoning a can of
deoderant is 'like a bomb', and should be treated with utmost respect.

It is if you're holding it. An oxygen cylinder though is still a
major hazard if you're on the other side of a brick wall from it.

--
Smert' spamionam

On 4 Oct 2004 10:46:17 -0700, (Reuben) wrote:

I have a 1983 VW Passat GL5 which is in reasonable condition barring
some serious rust on the training edges of the doors and the tailgate.
Professional repairers seem reluctant to take on repairs like this -
they want to replace the doors (possible) and the tailgate (not
possible to buy new tailgate now).
I'm considering doing the repairs myself and I'd like to hear from
anyone who has experience of this kind of job in relation to materials
and methods.
I'm realistic about what I can expect to achieve - I just want a
passable job to keep the car legal. If it turns out really well,
that's a bonus.

Hi,

Try one of the online scrap thingies for spare parts. If you do have
to repair it yourself use zinc rich primer, fibreglass for holes, and
filler/stopper to get it level.

Get a cheap body shop to do a 'blow over' of the panels, and you'll
get a better result than you ever will from an aerosol, especially if
it's metallic.

cheers,
Pete.

"Andy Dingley" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 5 Oct 2004 09:28:41 +0100, ":::Jerry::::"
wrote:

Oxy-acetylene welding and brazing cause to much distortion (especially on
modern sheet metals).

Then learn how to do it right.

Go and walk into any, modern, car bodyshop and ask if
you don't believe me...

A bodyshop for modern cars ? Of course not - they barely weld at all.

What utter bull you type, I was in one today talking to a panel beater as he
was preparing to weld a whole new rear 1/4 on. I was in there last week and
he was welding a new side onto a panel van. I could go into many bodyshops
and see the same any day of the week !

Modern cars don't rust (just remember the nasty old lace-curtain
Escorts of 20 years ago), cars are so relatively cheap to buy that we
just don't bother fixing the rough ones any more, and most bodywork
that still gets done is simple panel-swapping accident repairs under
insurance. MIG is used because it's _quick_, not because it's any
better. And I've never seen TIG in a high-street garage.

Well you should really open your eyes then, shouldn't you, mig is used
because it causes less distortion than gas - FFS stop telling me what my
frigging trade does...


Walk round to the railway arches and Old Bob's Beetle and Moggy Minor
emporium and you'll see oxy-acetylene in use though. How else are you
going to work those big curved panels, or shrink a spot ?

And WTF has that got to do with welding ?! And FYI there are far more
effective ways of shrinking etc. than using a oxy-acetylene now.

Sounds like you are talking about old time ludites that need to up date
their skill sets, otherwise they will be coming very unstuck before to
long - but then it could explain why they are only working on 30 year old
cars....


I've got two oxy-acetylene rigs here, propane and oxy-propane too, and
I'm a woodworker !


Well that doesn't surprise me, you certainly don't work in the car body
repair trade, that is plainly obvious....

"Pete C" wrote in message
...
On 4 Oct 2004 10:46:17 -0700, (Reuben) wrote:

I have a 1983 VW Passat GL5 which is in reasonable condition barring
some serious rust on the training edges of the doors and the tailgate.
Professional repairers seem reluctant to take on repairs like this -
they want to replace the doors (possible) and the tailgate (not
possible to buy new tailgate now).
I'm considering doing the repairs myself and I'd like to hear from
anyone who has experience of this kind of job in relation to materials
and methods.
I'm realistic about what I can expect to achieve - I just want a
passable job to keep the car legal. If it turns out really well,
that's a bonus.

Hi,

Try one of the online scrap thingies for spare parts. If you do have
to repair it yourself use zinc rich primer, fibreglass for holes, and
filler/stopper to get it level.

And see it fall out the first time someone slams the door....


Get a cheap body shop to do a 'blow over' of the panels, and you'll
get a better result than you ever will from an aerosol, especially if
it's metallic.


I wouldn't be so sure, if you had implied paying the going rate for the
paint work you might have a point, 'cheap' means something has been skimped
on some place when talking about paint work, 75 percent of the cost is
nothing but labour - go figure...

In article , "Mike
Mitchell" says...
On Mon, 04 Oct 2004 23:23:25 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
Mike Mitchell wrote:
You can inset pieces of sheet metal and braze them in, thereby restoring
(and probably improving) the original structure

Brazed repairs aren't allowed in structural areas. They must be seam
welded if a patch - or if replacing a complete panel, spot welding is ok
if that was used originally.

We also replicated spot welding, for instance where it was difficult
to get the spot welding tips in, by drilling spot-weld size holes,
then welding through.

Button welding.

On Tue, 5 Oct 2004 14:40:55 +0100, ":::Jerry::::"
wrote:

Try one of the online scrap thingies for spare parts. If you do have
to repair it yourself use zinc rich primer, fibreglass for holes, and
filler/stopper to get it level.

And see it fall out the first time someone slams the door....

No. How would you do it? I wouldn't want to weld every little hole,
especially if it meant taking a tailgate glass out.

Get a cheap body shop to do a 'blow over' of the panels, and you'll
get a better result than you ever will from an aerosol, especially if
it's metallic.

I wouldn't be so sure, if you had implied paying the going rate for the
paint work you might have a point, 'cheap' means something has been skimped

OK, 'inexpensive'...

on some place when talking about paint work, 75 percent of the cost is
nothing but labour - go figure...

Correct, do the prep yourself and get them to just spray it. What
would you recommend in the way of prep?

cheers,
Pete.