Hi,

Bear with me on this one - I know I've made a mistake, I just want to know
what I can do to resolve it...

I've recently tried to get quotes for a replacement front door. I ended up
signing a contract with the first salesperson who came round (a very
reasonable quote).

However, since signing the contract we decided on a different style of door
(more expensive) and decided to see if we could get a cheaper quote
elsewhere.

Unfortunately, the second salesman who came round (from ColdSeal) also got
our signature on a contract for a front door. At the time the ColdSeal
salesman knew that we had already signed a contract with another firm but
made no indication that we'd have difficulty in cancelling.

I'm currently in the process of trying to cancel the ColdSeal contract. It's
still within seven days of signing but I appreciate there are legal
technicalities involved as the salespeople were invited round, etc.

In both cases a deposit has been paid (along with an additional £30
insurance with ColdSeal) but no surveyors have visited.

Does anyone have any experience as to how difficult will it be to cancel the
ColdSeal contract?

What is my legal position regarding cancellation? Can I walk away from the
contract losing no more than the deposit (and their 'insurance')?

Thanks.

"Selwyn Froggitt" wrote in message


What is my legal position regarding cancellation? Can I walk away from the
contract losing no more than the deposit (and their 'insurance')?


Forgive my lack of sympathy but you have not asked for any.

This is a diy group. Legal techs can be found at groups with the word
"legal" in them.


--
Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG

Michael Mcneil wrote:


Forgive my lack of sympathy but you have not asked for any.

This is a diy group. Legal techs can be found at groups with the word
"legal" in them.


I am not asking for sympathy.

It is more likely that people in the DIY group would have experience of
working with double glazing companies than the legal group would.

You may have noticed that I used the word 'legal' once, whereas the whole
tone of the posting related to general home improvement.

On Wed, 29 Sep 2004 21:27:19 +0100, Selwyn Froggitt
wrote:



Does anyone have any experience as to how difficult will it be to cancel the
ColdSeal contract?

About as easy as wrestling a hungry alligator in a bath of chicken
soup. DG companies have a high proportion of customers trying to
cancel the next day and are expert at making sure the don't.

What is my legal position regarding cancellation?

Do you need a new back door by any chance?

--
Peter Parry.
http://www.wpp.ltd.uk/

Selwyn Froggitt wrote:
Michael Mcneil wrote:


Forgive my lack of sympathy but you have not asked for any.

This is a diy group. Legal techs can be found at groups with the word
"legal" in them.


I am not asking for sympathy.

It is more likely that people in the DIY group would have experience
of working with double glazing companies than the legal group would.

You may have noticed that I used the word 'legal' once, whereas the
whole tone of the posting related to general home improvement.

That said the question you are asking is of a legal nature not a DIY (or
home improvement) one!

John

On Wed, 29 Sep 2004 21:27:19 +0100, Selwyn Froggitt
wrote:



What is my legal position regarding cancellation? Can I walk away from the
contract losing no more than the deposit (and their 'insurance')?

Thanks.



Did you pay the deposit by credit card, or use other financing for the
purchase?

Check with your card company, but it's possible that you could have a
cooling off period of a few days - it may depend on the circumstances.




..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

In article lgate.org, Michael Mcneil wrote:
"Selwyn Froggitt" wrote in message


What is my legal position regarding cancellation? Can I walk away from the
contract losing no more than the deposit (and their 'insurance')?


Forgive my lack of sympathy but you have not asked for any.

This is a diy group. Legal techs can be found at groups with the word
"legal" in them.


A little observation would show that this NG is very tolerant of non-d-i-y.
postings. If you don't want to know about topics such as
using estate agents, contractors, buying dishwashers, then there are several
options open to you. Your last sentence is a reasonable response. As for
the rest, why wind up an OP who already feels in enough of a jam?

I've just taken a look at the advice on the CAB website and find
it highly ambiguous. (http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/nm/buy...e_doorstep.pdf)
On the one hand it says:
"You do not have the right to cancel certain agreements where
......
you contacted the seller and asked them to visit you"

On the other, a little further in the same paragraph it says:
"the right to cancel does include agreements for home repairs and
improvements, such as fitting double glazing"

uk.legal might be useful, but I'd guess that a call to Trading
Standards or CAB would give you a swift definitive answer.
(CAB = Citizens Advice Bureau)

--
Jan

Selwyn Froggitt wrote:

Hi,

Bear with me on this one - I know I've made a mistake, I just want to know
what I can do to resolve it...

I've recently tried to get quotes for a replacement front door. I ended up
signing a contract with the first salesperson who came round (a very
reasonable quote).

However, since signing the contract we decided on a different style of door
(more expensive) and decided to see if we could get a cheaper quote
elsewhere.

Unfortunately, the second salesman who came round (from ColdSeal) also got
our signature on a contract for a front door. At the time the ColdSeal
salesman knew that we had already signed a contract with another firm but
made no indication that we'd have difficulty in cancelling.

I'm currently in the process of trying to cancel the ColdSeal contract. It's
still within seven days of signing but I appreciate there are legal
technicalities involved as the salespeople were invited round, etc.

In both cases a deposit has been paid (along with an additional £30
insurance with ColdSeal) but no surveyors have visited.

Does anyone have any experience as to how difficult will it be to cancel the
ColdSeal contract?

What is my legal position regarding cancellation? Can I walk away from the
contract losing no more than the deposit (and their 'insurance')?

Effectively tyes. They can sue you for loss and damages, but the cost of
doing it will be monumental, and the judge will throw it out anyway,
because you do not get fined for breaching a contract, but for the
consequential losses that result.

It wold be oimpossible to prove that they had suffered more than the
loss of the salemans time, inless they had already made the units up and
scheduled teh work...again very very hard to prove.

Tell them to sue and be damned. You will lose the deposit and hear no
more about it.



Thanks.

Please note I AM NOT A LAWYER AND HAVE NO QUALIFICATIONS IN THE AREA.

I successfully cancelled a kitchen that was sold me under pressure and they
sent back my deposit.

1.Read your contract carefully and find the clause that gives probably both
sides the option to cancel within X days and or the clause giving you the
right to cancel within 7 day cooling off period.

2.Phone them and tell them that you intend to cancel. Note name of person
you speak to.

3. Write to them refering to phone call and stating that you are excercising
your contractual right to cancel the contract without penalty in accordance
with clause(s) Y(Z). Tell them to send a refund of payments to your address.
Quote their reference or contract No. If you can send them a photocopy of
the contract paper it would do no harm but don't let this hold you up.

4. Send the letter to them recorded delivery.

5. Send a copy first class post in case the other gets lost. Use a
different post box.

5a) Keep a copy.

6. Cross your fingers.

7. Don't delay, do it today.


This worked when I did it. Please note I AM NOT A LAWYER AND HAVE NO
QUALIFICATIONS IN THE AREA.

--
Derby, England.

Don't try to email me using "REPLY" as the email address is NoSpam. Our
email address is "thewoodies2 at ntlworld dot com"


"Selwyn Froggitt" wrote - snip snip snip

Does anyone have any experience as to how difficult will it be to cancel
the
ColdSeal contract?

What is my legal position regarding cancellation? Can I walk away from the
contract losing no more than the deposit (and their 'insurance')?

Thanks.





---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.762 / Virus Database: 510 - Release Date: 13/09/2004

"Selwyn Froggitt" wrote in message
...
Hi,

Bear with me on this one - I know I've made a mistake, I just want to know
what I can do to resolve it...

I've recently tried to get quotes for a replacement front door. I ended up
signing a contract with the first salesperson who came round (a very
reasonable quote).

However, since signing the contract we decided on a different style of
door
(more expensive) and decided to see if we could get a cheaper quote
elsewhere.

Unfortunately, the second salesman who came round (from ColdSeal) also got
our signature on a contract for a front door. At the time the ColdSeal
salesman knew that we had already signed a contract with another firm but
made no indication that we'd have difficulty in cancelling.

I'm currently in the process of trying to cancel the ColdSeal contract.
It's
still within seven days of signing but I appreciate there are legal
technicalities involved as the salespeople were invited round, etc.

In both cases a deposit has been paid (along with an additional £30
insurance with ColdSeal) but no surveyors have visited.

Does anyone have any experience as to how difficult will it be to cancel
the
ColdSeal contract?

What is my legal position regarding cancellation? Can I walk away from the
contract losing no more than the deposit (and their 'insurance')?

Thanks.

Coldsteal? Getting it cancelled is best as if their rubbish gets installed
you'll wish you had later.
Still not happy with my Coldsteal doors installed a few years ago and their
10 year guarentee isn't worth the paper it's written on.

Many thanks to all who have responded to me on this thread - there have been
some excellent suggestions (and words of advice).

I've arranged cancellation of the order from ColdSeal - though not through
their head office number, whose 'cancellation line' is permanently busy
(why am I surprised?) but via a local office.

As a result I've got out of the contract but it's cost me both the deposit
and the 'insurance'. Unfortunate - yes. But next time I'll read the small
print...

Cheers.

"Selwyn Froggitt" wrote in message.snip snip


As a result I've got out of the contract but it's cost me both the deposit
and the 'insurance'. Unfortunate - yes. But next time I'll read the small
print...

Sewyn, read your copy of the conditions very carefully. Look for a clause
with "termination" or "cancellation" in to make sure they are not trying to
pull the wool. If there is nothing, try having a word with the trading
standards people or perhaps citizens' advice. They should be able to point
you at someone who can come up with the rules about cooling off periods for
contracts signed in the home. It's worth a couple of phonecalls and you
might find you are entitled to a full refund. On the point of insurance,
what are they now insuring? You cancelled it so soon after the order that
they can't have put work in progress. I think they're being a bit naughty
there. OR I may be talking rubbish. But it's worth a try.

Good luck!


By the way, I think these high pressure salesmen who have quotations that
are valid for only one night giving you no time to shop round are unethical.
That approach should not be legal. I've had several come up with that tale
and it is very difficult to think straight. They start with a huge price and
make their still inflated, if reduced, price look like a bargain. They are
only after one thing ...... your signature. I am starting to learn, but it
has taken me many years.

--
Derby, England.

Don't try to email me using "REPLY" as the email address is NoSpam. Our
email address is "thewoodies2 at ntlworld dot com"





---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.762 / Virus Database: 510 - Release Date: 13/09/2004

In article ,
"Stanley" writes:

By the way, I think these high pressure salesmen who have quotations that
are valid for only one night giving you no time to shop round are unethical.
That approach should not be legal. I've had several come up with that tale
and it is very difficult to think straight. They start with a huge price and
make their still inflated, if reduced, price look like a bargain. They are
only after one thing ...... your signature. I am starting to learn, but it
has taken me many years.

Just say No.
If, after thinking on it for a day or more, you do decide to go
ahead, they aren't going to refuse that same price. The thing is
that most people, after thinking on it for a day or more, realise
they're being ripped off, so the salesman knows his only real
chance of ripping you off is there and then.

I had one of the nationals in to try selling me double glazing.
There was no way I was going to sign up with them because I
couldn't bear the thought of one penny of mine going to the
slimeball in the suit, but it was a useful experience. All the
unique features he pointed out to me on their windows were also
on the windows from a local installer, for a third the price,
and that actually included doing quite a bit more building work
which the national wouldn't do.

--
Andrew Gabriel

On Thu, 30 Sep 2004 22:53:04 GMT, "Stanley" wrote:




By the way, I think these high pressure salesmen who have quotations that
are valid for only one night giving you no time to shop round are unethical.
That approach should not be legal.

It would be very hard to make it illegal. Realistically, the only
thing that can be done is to allow a cooling off period as with the
Distance Selling Regulations.

It would be impractical to do anything about quotations and their
validity.

Having limited validity to quotations is standard business practice,
because it could be that the supplier has variable costs such as
exchange rates. It is also used to encourage people to order sooner.
I agree that intimidating people in their own home into signing up to
something against their better judgment is bad practice, but it would
be hard to differentiate that in law from perfectly reasonable quote
validity. Where would the time line be set? 1 day, 7 days, 30 days?

I've had several come up with that tale
and it is very difficult to think straight. They start with a huge price and
make their still inflated, if reduced, price look like a bargain.

Again it's hard to differentiate this. Furniture and clothing stores
have done it for generations.


They are
only after one thing ...... your signature. I am starting to learn, but it
has taken me many years.

Of course. The important thing is to make it clear who is running
the transaction and that there may not be a transaction. A sensible
salesperson will respond to that and not try the short close tactics.
The stupid one will try it on and lose the business.



..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

Andrew Gabriel wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Stanley" writes:

By the way, I think these high pressure salesmen who have quotations
that
are valid for only one night giving you no time to shop round are
unethical.
That approach should not be legal. I've had several come up with that
tale
and it is very difficult to think straight. They start with a huge price
and
make their still inflated, if reduced, price look like a bargain. They
are
only after one thing ...... your signature. I am starting to learn, but
it
has taken me many years.

I had one of the nationals in to try selling me double glazing.
There was no way I was going to sign up with them because I
couldn't bear the thought of one penny of mine going to the
slimeball in the suit

My sister-in-law had one of these. Not only did he keep the pressure on to
sign, he wouldn't take no for an answer and he wouldn't go. After nearly
three hours she told him he could either walk out the door now, or she would
call the police to remove him. Then he finally went. The next day she went
to the high street showroom and demanded to see the manager, and told him
that not only would she not buy their windows (which she actually liked!),
but she would tell all her friends and workmates never to approach this firm
for a quote (and she did just that). They may have upset a lot of people
the same way, because what used to be their high street showroom is now a
take-away sandwich bar.

All the
unique features he pointed out to me on their windows were also
on the windows from a local installer, for a third the price,

When my sister-in-law told the crowd at work, one of them gave her contact
information for a local installer. This man measured up, took details of
types and sizes of openings etc, then sourced his own supplies and quoted
just under a quarter of the slime ball's best offer. She accepted the
quote. They were good quality windows too, not cheap and cheerful.

Jim

Andy Hall wrote in message . ..
On Thu, 30 Sep 2004 22:53:04 GMT, "Stanley" wrote:




By the way, I think these high pressure salesmen who have quotations that
are valid for only one night giving you no time to shop round are unethical.
That approach should not be legal.

It would be very hard to make it illegal. Realistically, the only
thing that can be done is to allow a cooling off period as with the
Distance Selling Regulations.

It would be impractical to do anything about quotations and their
validity.

Having limited validity to quotations is standard business practice,
because it could be that the supplier has variable costs such as
exchange rates. It is also used to encourage people to order sooner.
I agree that intimidating people in their own home into signing up to
something against their better judgment is bad practice, but it would
be hard to differentiate that in law from perfectly reasonable quote
validity. Where would the time line be set? 1 day, 7 days, 30 days?

I've had several come up with that tale
and it is very difficult to think straight. They start with a huge price and
make their still inflated, if reduced, price look like a bargain.

Again it's hard to differentiate this. Furniture and clothing stores
have done it for generations.


They are
only after one thing ...... your signature. I am starting to learn, but it
has taken me many years.

Of course. The important thing is to make it clear who is running
the transaction and that there may not be a transaction. A sensible
salesperson will respond to that and not try the short close tactics.
The stupid one will try it on and lose the business.



.andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

Indeed - I have had 3 slimeballs in my house (and no not the occupants
!!)
this week. They arrive and conversation goes - these are the windows,
this is where I want the openers, this is the style of doors I want,
please measure my windows etc ......and give me a quote please and I
will call you back within 10 days if I actually want to order. I also
say that if their company provides me with a followup "courtesy call"
then I will not order from them.

So far I have had to ask 2 of the three to leave. Why oh why don't
they just listen, they could very well have had an order from
me.......

Has anyone in the Hertfordshire recently had double glazing installed
? Can anyone recommend a local company ?

Thanks

Gin

On Fri, 01 Oct 2004 07:28:27 GMT, Jim Warren wrote:

Then he finally went. The next day she went to the high street
showroom and demanded to see the manager, and told him that not only
would she not buy their windows (which she actually liked!),
but she would tell all her friends and workmates never to approach
this firm for a quote (and she did just that).

Name and shame. Though I guess it was Anglian as they are the only
ones I can think of with a high street presence. Beware of Anglian, be
very aware. They are run on a franchise basis with sub-contracted
installers if you have a problem they'll send round their fulltime
"trouble shooting" team(*) to sort it out but you'll get naff all
support otherwise. Anglian head office are not interested in the
slightest and will just pass any complaints down the chain to the
franchise.

(*) Says a lot doesn't it if all the many Anglian franchises around
the UK have to have fulltime trouble shooting teams...

--
Cheers
Dave. pam is missing e-mail

On Wed, 29 Sep 2004 22:30:32 +0100, Selwyn Froggitt
wrote:
snipped

Not THE Selwyn Froggitt?

" ... Froggitt is an excessively boisterous double-sized half-wit
dogged by disaster, the type of person people cross roads to avoid, a
deeply jovial man who has somehow deluded himself into thinking that
he can fix anything but, rather, breaks everything."


Extract from:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/comedy/guide/ar..._7774965.shtml

On Wed, 29 Sep 2004 21:27:19 +0100, Selwyn Froggitt
wrote:

Hi,

Bear with me on this one - I know I've made a mistake, I just want to know
what I can do to resolve it...

I've recently tried to get quotes for a replacement front door. I ended up
signing a contract with the first salesperson who came round (a very
reasonable quote).

However, since signing the contract we decided on a different style of door
(more expensive) and decided to see if we could get a cheaper quote
elsewhere.

Unfortunately, the second salesman who came round (from ColdSeal) also got
our signature on a contract for a front door. At the time the ColdSeal
salesman knew that we had already signed a contract with another firm but
made no indication that we'd have difficulty in cancelling.

I'm currently in the process of trying to cancel the ColdSeal contract. It's
still within seven days of signing but I appreciate there are legal
technicalities involved as the salespeople were invited round, etc.

In both cases a deposit has been paid (along with an additional £30
insurance with ColdSeal) but no surveyors have visited.

Does anyone have any experience as to how difficult will it be to cancel the
ColdSeal contract?

What is my legal position regarding cancellation? Can I walk away from the
contract losing no more than the deposit (and their 'insurance')?

Thanks.


You have a "cooling off" period if you sign in your house when they
visit. so cancel, in writing, quickly.

Rick