I mounted my kitchen cabinets into 100+ yr old brick using a masonry bit, and wall anchors. I also used canned air to blow out all the dust from the hole and then dampened the inside of the hole, then inserted Gorilla glue and then tapped in the anchor and attached the cabinets. I've had 2 cabinets fail and begin pulling out of the wall (one quite suddenly and dangerously) and am now truly perplexed as to how to mount them to safely stay put.
I've read about some folks using a French cleat on these types of walls, but am unclear as to the advantage? Am also thinking I might need to add some kind of reinforcement to those which haven't failed -- yet! Any additional advice would be greatly appreciated.

--
For full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/uk-diy...l-3120753-.htm

On 23/05/2021 20:45, SueEllen wrote:
I mounted my kitchen cabinets into 100+ yr old brick using a masonry
bit, and wall anchors. I also used canned air to blow out all the dust
from the hole and then dampened the inside of the hole, then inserted
Gorilla glue and then tapped in the anchor and attached the cabinets.
I've had 2 cabinets fail and begin pulling out of the wall (one quite
suddenly and dangerously) and am now truly perplexed as to how to mount
them to safely stay put. I've read about some folks using a French cleat
on these types of walls, but am unclear as to the advantage?Â* Am also
thinking I might need to add some kind of reinforcement to those which
haven't failed -- yet! Any additional advice would be greatly appreciated.

Personally, I *always* start by mounting a batten on the wall underneath
kitchen wall cabinets. That way you define an accurate level for all of
them, and they become very easy to fix. Assuming you have work surfaces
under, once you have fixed the batten you can then rest the cupboards on
the batten one at a time, propped up at the front on a stack of books or
some other suitable objects. Then, you can drill through the fixing
battens or brackets inside the cabinets to mark the exact spot on the
wall that needs to be drilled and plugged. Once you have done that you
will be able to fit the cupboards single-handed, with a bit of practice.

Do this before fitting the doors of course, or if the doors are already
on then remove them first (normally easy if they are on standard cabinet
hinges).

The batten is doing the main work of holding up the weight, so it needs
to be fixed securely. You only need a couple of sufficiently secure
screws at the top of each cabinet to stop them tipping away at the top.
In some cabinets, you are fixing through a length of 18mm chipboard
behind the hardboar panel. In better ones there will be a concealed
metal bracket.

If you want, you can put a couple of vertical screws down through the
bottom shelf into the batten.

You can also fit connecting bolts between adjacent cabinets to keep them
together and make the whole structure more solid.

You should not need to use gorilla glue with wall anchors. What type are
you using? In dodgy walls it is worth using good quality plastic plugs,
rather than shed cheapies. Plasplugs are OK, Fischer are probably the
best. Try not to drill too oversize or the plug won't grip well. Only if
the wall is *very* rough might it be necessary to use polyester anchor
material. You can use this to fit various types of wall plug, or just
set in a length of studding (lined up with holes in the cabinet), and
then secure the cabinet with nuts and penny washers once the resin has
set. Use excess studding (for ease of fitting) and trim to length after
fitting.

Owain Lastname wrote:

I would strongly recommend using the wall hanging bar, which means
you can put in multiple fixings along the row of cabinets, and also
ensures all the cabinets are level.

example:https://www.locksonline.com/Cabinet-...Long-6492.html

Yep, the B&Q cabinets come with two ****ing little 2" pieces of that bar
per cabinet, which inevitably need screws where screws don't want to go,
fitting a whole length of bar is much easier.

On 23/05/2021 20:45, SueEllen wrote:

I mounted my kitchen cabinets into 100+ yr old brick using a masonry
bit, and wall anchors. I also used canned air to blow out all the dust
from the hole and then dampened the inside of the hole, then inserted
Gorilla glue and then tapped in the anchor and attached the cabinets.
I've had 2 cabinets fail and begin pulling out of the wall (one quite
suddenly and dangerously) and am now truly perplexed as to how to mount
them to safely stay put. I've read about some folks using a French cleat
on these types of walls, but am unclear as to the advantage?Â* Am also
thinking I might need to add some kind of reinforcement to those which
haven't failed -- yet! Any additional advice would be greatly appreciated.

With cabinets, most of the load is on the fixing in shear. So long
fixings (4" screw into wall plugs) with the hole drilled at a slight
downward angle will make the fixing almost impossible to pull out with a
shear load.

Fixing all the cabinets together will also help resist movement of any
one cabinet in isolation,

Lastly a fixing batten under the base of all the cabinets will also help
take the load.

The advantage of a French cleat is that it can be quite a wide bit of
timber, that allows many fixing spread over a reasonable area. So again
reducing the stress on any individual fastening.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

Owain Lastname wrote in
:

https://www.locksonline.com/Cabinet-...mm-Long-6492.h
tml

That would be my absolute favourite after watching a builder arsing around
with lots of individual ones. Needs a small cutout in the rear of the sides
of the cabinets.

On 23/05/2021 22:24, JohnP wrote:
Owain Lastname wrote in
:

https://www.locksonline.com/Cabinet-...mm-Long-6492.h
tml

That would be my absolute favourite after watching a builder arsing around
with lots of individual ones. Needs a small cutout in the rear of the sides
of the cabinets.

Arguably an even better idea than a batten underneath, apart from the
fiddle of notching the uprights. The other thing I like about "my"
battens is that it's easy to put screw hooks into them for hanging
utensils. I also have mini strip lights mounted on some of mine. (These
are not visible from the front in my case because I have "home-made"
doors that stretch down a couple of inches below the bottom shelf).

On Sunday, May 23, 2021 at 10:45:27 PM UTC+1, newshound wrote:
On 23/05/2021 22:24, JohnP wrote:
Owain Lastname wrote in
:

https://www.locksonline.com/Cabinet-...mm-Long-6492.h
tml

That would be my absolute favourite after watching a builder arsing around
with lots of individual ones. Needs a small cutout in the rear of the sides
of the cabinets.

Arguably an even better idea than a batten underneath, apart from the
fiddle of notching the uprights. The other thing I like about "my"
battens is that it's easy to put screw hooks into them for hanging
utensils. I also have mini strip lights mounted on some of mine. (These
are not visible from the front in my case because I have "home-made"
doors that stretch down a couple of inches below the bottom shelf).

Gorilla Glue would not have been my choice. a chemical resin or epoxy resin filler would have been better.
Much talk about french cleats but if the wall is not flat the french cleat may not function correctly and adjustment of cabinet is difficult.
Blum, or similar, wall hanging brackets are ideal . The brackets have a minimum of three slots for screws increasing chances of getting a good fixing or a fixing rail can be used. One bracket in each if the cupboards top corners and levelling is easy. Fischer do any excellent selection of different plugs. I'd be surprised if a suitable one could not be found in their range
If going to the trouble of fixing a wood batten under the cupboards then just use a top wood batten as well. Set tight to the top of the cabinet with screws securing the cabinet to it . This will stop the cabinet tilting outwards and maintain the weight vertical to the fixings

On 23/05/2021 22:45, newshound wrote:
On 23/05/2021 22:24, JohnP wrote:
Owain Lastname wrote in
:

https://www.locksonline.com/Cabinet-...mm-Long-6492.h
tml

That would be my absolute favourite after watching a builder arsing
around
with lots of individual ones. Needs a small cutout in the rear of the
sides
of the cabinets.

Arguably an even better idea than a batten underneath, apart from the
fiddle of notching the uprights. The other thing I like about "my"
battens is that it's easy to put screw hooks into them for hanging
utensils. I also have mini strip lights mounted on some of mine. (These
are not visible from the front in my case because I have "home-made"
doors that stretch down a couple of inches below the bottom shelf).

Many of my cabinets are hung quite simply on a piece of MDF cut to fit
*inside* the back of the cabinet, *behind* the cabinet rear panel,
screwed to the wall wherever there are studs.

A couple of screws from onside the cabinet into the MDF secures them

--
Any fool can believe in principles - and most of them do!

On 23/05/2021 23:23, fred wrote:
On Sunday, May 23, 2021 at 10:45:27 PM UTC+1, newshound wrote:
On 23/05/2021 22:24, JohnP wrote:
Owain Lastname wrote in
:

https://www.locksonline.com/Cabinet-...mm-Long-6492.h
tml

That would be my absolute favourite after watching a builder arsing around
with lots of individual ones. Needs a small cutout in the rear of the sides
of the cabinets.

Arguably an even better idea than a batten underneath, apart from the
fiddle of notching the uprights. The other thing I like about "my"
battens is that it's easy to put screw hooks into them for hanging
utensils. I also have mini strip lights mounted on some of mine. (These
are not visible from the front in my case because I have "home-made"
doors that stretch down a couple of inches below the bottom shelf).

Gorilla Glue would not have been my choice. a chemical resin or epoxy resin filler would have been better.
Much talk about french cleats but if the wall is not flat the french cleat may not function correctly and adjustment of cabinet is difficult.
Blum, or similar, wall hanging brackets are ideal . The brackets have a minimum of three slots for screws increasing chances of getting a good fixing or a fixing rail can be used. One bracket in each if the cupboards top corners and levelling is easy. Fischer do any excellent selection of different plugs. I'd be surprised if a suitable one could not be found in their range

Agreed


If going to the trouble of fixing a wood batten under the cupboards then just use a top wood batten as well. Set tight to the top of the cabinet with screws securing the cabinet to it . This will stop the cabinet tilting outwards and maintain the weight vertical to the fixings


But a top batten above the cupboards is much more difficult to fit,
because you have to do it with the cupboards in place but still
prevented from tilting. And a vertical screw into the chipboard top (or
even sides) will not be particularly secure, as well as being difficult
to fix since it has to be driven parallel to the wall and there may not
be much vertical clearance. Can't see what advantage it provides.

On 23/05/2021 21:18, Owain Lastname wrote:
On Sunday, 23 May 2021 at 20:45:07 UTC+1, SueEllen wrote:
I mounted my kitchen cabinets into 100+ yr old brick using a
masonry bit, and wall anchors.

I would strongly recommend using the wall hanging bar, which means
you can put in multiple fixings along the row of cabinets, and also
ensures all the cabinets are level.

example:
https://www.locksonline.com/Cabinet-...Long-6492.html

You've converted me too, but only one issue. The top of the cabinet will
now be 9mm or so further from the wall than the bottom.

Did you use packing to keep the cabinet vertical?

On 24/05/2021 13:08, Fredxx wrote:
On 23/05/2021 21:18, Owain Lastname wrote:
On Sunday, 23 May 2021 at 20:45:07 UTC+1, SueEllen wrote:
I mounted my kitchen cabinets into 100+ yr old brick using a
masonry bit, and wall anchors.

I would strongly recommend using the wall hanging bar, which means
you can put in multiple fixings along the row of cabinets, and also
ensures all the cabinets are level.

example:
https://www.locksonline.com/Cabinet-...Long-6492.html


You've converted me too, but only one issue. The top of the cabinet will
now be 9mm or so further from the wall than the bottom.

Did you use packing to keep the cabinet vertical?

Don't you cut a little recess into the uprights at the back so that they
still go flush? Not that 9mm would show in most cases.

On Monday, May 24, 2021 at 12:49:20 PM UTC+1, newshound wrote:
On 23/05/2021 23:23, fred wrote:
On Sunday, May 23, 2021 at 10:45:27 PM UTC+1, newshound wrote:
On 23/05/2021 22:24, JohnP wrote:
Owain Lastname wrote in
:

https://www.locksonline.com/Cabinet-...mm-Long-6492.h
tml

That would be my absolute favourite after watching a builder arsing around
with lots of individual ones. Needs a small cutout in the rear of the sides
of the cabinets.

Arguably an even better idea than a batten underneath, apart from the
fiddle of notching the uprights. The other thing I like about "my"
battens is that it's easy to put screw hooks into them for hanging
utensils. I also have mini strip lights mounted on some of mine. (These
are not visible from the front in my case because I have "home-made"
doors that stretch down a couple of inches below the bottom shelf).

Gorilla Glue would not have been my choice. a chemical resin or epoxy resin filler would have been better.
Much talk about french cleats but if the wall is not flat the french cleat may not function correctly and adjustment of cabinet is difficult.
Blum, or similar, wall hanging brackets are ideal . The brackets have a minimum of three slots for screws increasing chances of getting a good fixing or a fixing rail can be used. One bracket in each if the cupboards top corners and levelling is easy. Fischer do any excellent selection of different plugs. I'd be surprised if a suitable one could not be found in their range
Agreed
If going to the trouble of fixing a wood batten under the cupboards then just use a top wood batten as well. Set tight to the top of the cabinet with screws securing the cabinet to it . This will stop the cabinet tilting outwards and maintain the weight vertical to the fixings

But a top batten above the cupboards is much more difficult to fit,
because you have to do it with the cupboards in place but still
prevented from tilting. And a vertical screw into the chipboard top (or
even sides) will not be particularly secure, as well as being difficult
to fix since it has to be driven parallel to the wall and there may not
be much vertical clearance. Can't see what advantage it provides.

Screw upwards into the batten.

Offer up cabinet and mark the top edge. OK you'll need an assistant but what are wives for ?

On Monday, May 24, 2021 at 1:08:18 PM UTC+1, Fredxx wrote:
On 23/05/2021 21:18, Owain Lastname wrote:
On Sunday, 23 May 2021 at 20:45:07 UTC+1, SueEllen wrote:
I mounted my kitchen cabinets into 100+ yr old brick using a
masonry bit, and wall anchors.

I would strongly recommend using the wall hanging bar, which means
you can put in multiple fixings along the row of cabinets, and also
ensures all the cabinets are level.

example:
https://www.locksonline.com/Cabinet-...Long-6492.html
You've converted me too, but only one issue. The top of the cabinet will
now be 9mm or so further from the wall than the bottom.

Did you use packing to keep the cabinet vertical?

The bracket is set back in the cupboard to allow the cabinet sit flush, The brackets include adjustment to pull the cabinet into the wall and adjust cabinet height to allow adjacent cabinets line up

On 25/05/2021 09:26, fred wrote:
On Monday, May 24, 2021 at 1:08:18 PM UTC+1, Fredxx wrote:
On 23/05/2021 21:18, Owain Lastname wrote:
On Sunday, 23 May 2021 at 20:45:07 UTC+1, SueEllen wrote:
I mounted my kitchen cabinets into 100+ yr old brick using a
masonry bit, and wall anchors.

I would strongly recommend using the wall hanging bar, which
means you can put in multiple fixings along the row of cabinets,
and also ensures all the cabinets are level.

example:
https://www.locksonline.com/Cabinet-...Long-6492.html


You've converted me too, but only one issue. The top of the cabinet
will now be 9mm or so further from the wall than the bottom.

Did you use packing to keep the cabinet vertical?

The bracket is set back in the cupboard to allow the cabinet sit
flush, The brackets include adjustment to pull the cabinet into the
wall and adjust cabinet height to allow adjacent cabinets line up

The backs of these cabinets are normally flush to the wall.

If I use one long rail to mount 2 or 3 of these cabinets then this will
inherently push the top of the cabinets away from the wall[1].

One critical use of the rail would be to mount onto studs rather than
rely on any alternative wall fixings.

What am I missing?


[1] I am aware I can modify the cabinets but that's just making more work.

Fredxx wrote:

If I use one long rail to mount 2 or 3 of these cabinets then this will
inherently push the top of the cabinets away from the wall[1].

Not if you notch the sides of all the cabinets (except those on the
ends) to allow the rail to pass cleanly behind them.

In article ,
Andy Burns wrote:

Owain Lastname wrote:

I would strongly recommend using the wall hanging bar, which means
you can put in multiple fixings along the row of cabinets, and also
ensures all the cabinets are level.

example:https://www.locksonline.com/Cabinet-...Long-6492.html

Yep, the B&Q cabinets come with two ****ing little 2" pieces of that bar
per cabinet, which inevitably need screws where screws don't want to go,
fitting a whole length of bar is much easier.

Yup. Not that impressed with any hanging methods given the weight of stuff
that can be stored in wall cupboards.

Since mine had to fit between a chimney breast and end wall, I ended up
making them using spur shelving uprights with brackets. Multiple fixings
and can take any practical load. And no sagging of the middle shelf.

--
*A nest isn't empty until all their stuff is out of the attic

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 25/05/2021 14:22, Andy Burns wrote:
Fredxx wrote:

If I use one long rail to mount 2 or 3 of these cabinets then this
will inherently push the top of the cabinets away from the wall[1].

Not if you notch the sides of all the cabinets (except those on the
ends) to allow the rail to pass cleanly behind them.

I'm aware I could do that, it was another process and modification I
would ideally like to avoid.

I guess a small price to pay for safe cabinets.

On 25/05/2021 14:26, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Andy Burns wrote:

Owain Lastname wrote:

I would strongly recommend using the wall hanging bar, which means
you can put in multiple fixings along the row of cabinets, and also
ensures all the cabinets are level.

example:https://www.locksonline.com/Cabinet-...Long-6492.html

Yep, the B&Q cabinets come with two ****ing little 2" pieces of that bar
per cabinet, which inevitably need screws where screws don't want to go,
fitting a whole length of bar is much easier.

Despite this there must be 100,000s of cabinets fixed to the walls with
the supplied fixings and very little reported evidence that they are
falling off walls.


--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

alan_m wrote:

Andy Burns wrote:

the B&Q cabinets come with two ****ing little 2" pieces of that bar
per cabinet, which inevitably need screws where screws don't want to go,
fitting a whole length of bar is much easier.

Despite this there must be 100,000s of cabinets fixed to the walls with
the supplied fixings and very little reported evidence that they are
falling off walls.

I don't say they're likely to fall off, just that the longer lengths are
easier to fit and get a whole run straight and/or level, and avoid
needing to drill for screws/plugs in inconvenient places.

On Tuesday, May 25, 2021 at 7:12:59 PM UTC+1, alan_m wrote:
On 25/05/2021 14:26, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Andy Burns wrote:

Owain Lastname wrote:

I would strongly recommend using the wall hanging bar, which means
you can put in multiple fixings along the row of cabinets, and also
ensures all the cabinets are level.

example:https://www.locksonline.com/Cabinet-...Long-6492.html

Yep, the B&Q cabinets come with two ****ing little 2" pieces of that bar
per cabinet, which inevitably need screws where screws don't want to go,
fitting a whole length of bar is much easier.
Despite this there must be 100,000s of cabinets fixed to the walls with
the supplied fixings and very little reported evidence that they are
falling off walls.


--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk


I have the loading figures stored somewhere but can't find them. We often fitted bookshelves up on office walls and the biggest no no was the dickheads who insisted on trying to store full boxes of colour leaflets or A4 stationery on them despite being advised that the shelving was not built for that as standard.

In cases were this advise was ignored the cabinets didn't fall off the walls as much as slide down pivoting on any remaining brackets.

On 25/05/2021 19:12, alan_m wrote:
On 25/05/2021 14:26, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Â*Â*Â* Andy Burns wrote:

Owain Lastname wrote:

I would strongly recommend using the wall hanging bar, which means
you can put in multiple fixings along the row of cabinets, and also
ensures all the cabinets are level.

example:https://www.locksonline.com/Cabinet-...Long-6492.html


Yep, the B&Q cabinets come with two ****ing little 2" pieces of that bar
per cabinet, which inevitably need screws where screws don't want to go,
fitting a whole length of bar is much easier.

Despite this there must be 100,000s of cabinets fixed to the walls with
the supplied fixings and very little reported evidence that they are
falling off walls.


Well no. The first thing I discovered on kitchen fittings was not to use
the supplied fittings on stud walls. Fine on blockwork, dangerous on stud

Since such things are behind the cabinets a lot of them are simply
either utilised by hacking out plasterbaoard and putting a line of
timber ply or MDF along at cabinet height and using those fittings, our
using batten instead of them to support the weight

My current kitchen was built over a quite curved wall. I simply used a
bloody great sheet of MDF screwed to the studs and packed out to
accommodate the curve to allow me to rapidly run wiring and to provide
the ideal surface to mount cabinets from - using the 'supplied fittings'

But where I haven't done that any high cabinets do not use the 'supplied
fittings'

I have a huge box of them left over.

Remember that from the 1950s to around the 1980s, studwork was
deprecated. 'proper' houses were built of radioactive recycled coal ash.

Only once the eco panic was started did people realise that whacking up
crappy timber farames, filling them with insulation and slapping PB over
the top was cheap and energy saving

If you want structural integrity, replace the PB with 12mm MDF or ply
instead


--
Renewable energy: Expensive solutions that don't work to a problem that
doesn't exist instituted by self legalising protection rackets that
don't protect, masquerading as public servants who don't serve the public.

In article ,
fred wrote:
Despite this there must be 100,000s of cabinets fixed to the walls with
the supplied fixings and very little reported evidence that they are
falling off walls.


--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk


I have the loading figures stored somewhere but can't find them. We
often fitted bookshelves up on office walls and the biggest no no was
the dickheads who insisted on trying to store full boxes of colour
leaflets or A4 stationery on them despite being advised that the
shelving was not built for that as standard.

This is the problem with wall cabinets. Some might fill them with china.
Tinned food, etc. So decent ones would be made and fixed for the very
highest loading possible.

Basically, you try and make them fool and c**t proof.

--
*I believe five out of four people have trouble with fractions. *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.