I've been talking to a rural plumbing firm about a small job that I
could do, but didn't fancy doing, and had agreed their published rate of
£90 for the first hour followed by £50/hour thereafter. I guessed the
job would take between 1 and 2 hours. Today I found out they were going
to charge more than £150 for parts that I could easily buy for £50 at
retail prices. When they wouldn't justify the mark-up I cancelled and
will do the work myself when the warmer weather arrives. I was prepared
to pay the (OTT) labour rate but they blew it by putting such a huge
mark-up on the parts. Because of greed they lost the job.
I feel sorry for people who don't have the option to do things
themselves, or who don't know anything about the time jobs take and the
cost of materials.

On 18/05/2021 21:39, wrote:
I've been talking to a rural plumbing firm about a small job that I
could do, but didn't fancy doing, and had agreed their published rate of
£90 for the first hour followed by £50/hour thereafter. I guessed the
job would take between 1 and 2 hours. Today I found out they were going
to charge more than £150 for parts that I could easily buy for £50 at
retail prices. When they wouldn't justify the mark-up I cancelled and
will do the work myself when the warmer weather arrives. I was prepared
to pay the (OTT) labour rate but they blew it by putting such a huge
mark-up on the parts. Because of greed they lost the job.
I feel sorry for people who don't have the option to do things
themselves, or who don't know anything about the time jobs take and the
cost of materials.

I don't know whether you have ever run your own business, but many
people who have not significantly underestimate the overheads for firms
like these. You may be right, this firm could be taking the ****. If you
actually used them, you might find that they "round down" their hours,
or are scrupulous about stopping the clock during tea breaks.

While I am pretty skeptical about TripAdvisor and the like, it is
interesting to see what reviews firms get on social media. To my mind,
there is nothing to beat a personal recommendation.

wrote:
I've been talking to a rural plumbing firm about a small job that I
could do, but didn't fancy doing, and had agreed their published rate of
£90 for the first hour followed by £50/hour thereafter. I guessed the
job would take between 1 and 2 hours. Today I found out they were going
to charge more than £150 for parts that I could easily buy for £50 at
retail prices. When they wouldn't justify the mark-up I cancelled and
will do the work myself when the warmer weather arrives. I was prepared
to pay the (OTT) labour rate but they blew it by putting such a huge
mark-up on the parts. Because of greed they lost the job.
I feel sorry for people who don't have the option to do things
themselves, or who don't know anything about the time jobs take and the
cost of materials.

Related to materials shortages?
https://www.theguardian.com/business...ding-to-a-halt

Theo

On Tue, 18 May 2021 21:39:23 +0100, wrote:

I've been talking to a rural plumbing firm about a small job that I
could do, but didn't fancy doing, and had agreed their published rate of
£90 for the first hour followed by £50/hour thereafter. I guessed the
job would take between 1 and 2 hours. Today I found out they were going
to charge more than £150 for parts that I could easily buy for £50 at
retail prices. When they wouldn't justify the mark-up I cancelled and
will do the work myself when the warmer weather arrives. I was prepared
to pay the (OTT) labour rate but they blew it by putting such a huge
mark-up on the parts. Because of greed they lost the job.
I feel sorry for people who don't have the option to do things
themselves, or who don't know anything about the time jobs take and the
cost of materials.

What's the standard mark-up for plumbing parts? And what's the
recommended retail price for that part you can buy for £50? There are
some resellers who pile 'em high and sell 'em cheap, making up in
turnover for what they lose in margin and you can't expect a tradesman
to compete with that on his trade discount. Of course if the part you
can buy for fifty quid only cost the plumber thirty then at £150 he is
taking the ****.


Nick

On 18/05/2021 21:39, wrote:
I've been talking to a rural plumbing firm about a small job that I
could do, but didn't fancy doing, and had agreed their published rate of
£90 for the first hour followed by £50/hour thereafter. I guessed the
job would take between 1 and 2 hours. Today I found out they were going
to charge more than £150 for parts that I could easily buy for £50 at
retail prices. When they wouldn't justify the mark-up I cancelled and
will do the work myself when the warmer weather arrives. I was prepared
to pay the (OTT) labour rate but they blew it by putting such a huge
mark-up on the parts. Because of greed they lost the job.
I feel sorry for people who don't have the option to do things
themselves, or who don't know anything about the time jobs take and the
cost of materials.


One technique is to get the parts yourself, but if they are faulty you
should expect to pay for their labour to replace the part.

If you run a business you expect 1,000 working hours from an employee.
Simply divide salary + NI, plus overheads van etc and divide by 1,000.
That gets you a break even hourly rate.

Another crude way of costing out a job is 3 x hourly cost of employment.

If you add VAT you can see why tradesmen cost so much.

On 18/05/2021 21:39, wrote:
I've been talking to a rural plumbing firm about a small job that I
could do, but didn't fancy doing, and had agreed their published rate of
£90 for the first hour followed by £50/hour thereafter. I guessed the
job would take between 1 and 2 hours. Today I found out they were going
to charge more than £150 for parts that I could easily buy for £50 at
retail prices. When they wouldn't justify the mark-up I cancelled and
will do the work myself when the warmer weather arrives. I was prepared
to pay the (OTT) labour rate but they blew it by putting such a huge
mark-up on the parts. Because of greed they lost the job.
I feel sorry for people who don't have the option to do things
themselves, or who don't know anything about the time jobs take and the
cost of materials.

So you are on minimum wage then?
If not, maybe you're just being greedy.

On 19/05/2021 00:34, Fredxx wrote:
On 18/05/2021 21:39, wrote:
I've been talking to a rural plumbing firm about a small job that I
could do, but didn't fancy doing, and had agreed their published rate of
£90 for the first hour followed by £50/hour thereafter. I guessed the
job would take between 1 and 2 hours. Today I found out they were going
to charge more than £150 for parts that I could easily buy for £50 at
retail prices. When they wouldn't justify the mark-up I cancelled and
will do the work myself when the warmer weather arrives. I was prepared
to pay the (OTT) labour rate but they blew it by putting such a huge
mark-up on the parts. Because of greed they lost the job.
I feel sorry for people who don't have the option to do things
themselves, or who don't know anything about the time jobs take and the
cost of materials.


One technique is to get the parts yourself, but if they are faulty you
should expect to pay for their labour to replace the part.

If you run a business you expect 1,000 working hours from an employee.
Simply divide salary + NI, plus overheads van etc and divide by 1,000.
That gets you a break even hourly rate.

Another crude way of costing out a job is 3 x hourly cost of employment.

If you add VAT you can see why tradesmen cost so much.

Many years ago when we had a new boiler fitted the gas service engineer
we'd used for years said that it would be better if we ordered the
boiler direct. That way it didn't appear on his bill and so he kept
below the VAT threshold based on turnover.

--

Jeff

In article ,
Nick Odell wrote:
On Tue, 18 May 2021 21:39:23 +0100, wrote:

I've been talking to a rural plumbing firm about a small job that I
could do, but didn't fancy doing, and had agreed their published rate of
£90 for the first hour followed by £50/hour thereafter. I guessed the
job would take between 1 and 2 hours. Today I found out they were going
to charge more than £150 for parts that I could easily buy for £50 at
retail prices. When they wouldn't justify the mark-up I cancelled and
will do the work myself when the warmer weather arrives. I was prepared
to pay the (OTT) labour rate but they blew it by putting such a huge
mark-up on the parts. Because of greed they lost the job.
I feel sorry for people who don't have the option to do things
themselves, or who don't know anything about the time jobs take and the
cost of materials.

What's the standard mark-up for plumbing parts? And what's the
recommended retail price for that part you can buy for £50? There are
some resellers who pile 'em high and sell 'em cheap, making up in
turnover for what they lose in margin and you can't expect a tradesman
to compete with that on his trade discount. Of course if the part you
can buy for fifty quid only cost the plumber thirty then at £150 he is
taking the ****.

But, you need to actor in the time taken to go and get the part(s) and the
cost of going to the supplier. I've just taken an hour and a 20 mile
round trip to get a sack of Postcrete.


Nick

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

On 18/05/2021 22:21, newshound wrote:
On 18/05/2021 21:39, wrote:
I've been talking to a rural plumbing firm about a small job that I
could do, but didn't fancy doing, and had agreed their published rate
of £90 for the first hour followed by £50/hour thereafter. I guessed
the job would take between 1 and 2 hours. Today I found out they were
going to charge more than £150 for parts that I could easily buy for
£50 at retail prices. When they wouldn't justify the mark-up I
cancelled and will do the work myself when the warmer weather arrives.
I was prepared to pay the (OTT) labour rate but they blew it by
putting such a huge mark-up on the parts. Because of greed they lost
the job.
I feel sorry for people who don't have the option to do things
themselves, or who don't know anything about the time jobs take and
the cost of materials.

I don't know whether you have ever run your own business, but many
people who have not significantly underestimate the overheads for firms
like these. You may be right, this firm could be taking the ****. If you
actually used them, you might find that they "round down" their hours,
or are scrupulous about stopping the clock during tea breaks.

While I am pretty skeptical about TripAdvisor and the like, it is
interesting to see what reviews firms get on social media. To my mind,
there is nothing to beat a personal recommendation.
The overheads should be adequately covered by the call-out and hourly
charges - assuming 3 small jobs a day and 6 chargeable hours means
£420/day. Marking-up parts by more than 3x is taking the proverbial

On 18/05/2021 23:44, Nick Odell wrote:
On Tue, 18 May 2021 21:39:23 +0100, wrote:

I've been talking to a rural plumbing firm about a small job that I
could do, but didn't fancy doing, and had agreed their published rate of
£90 for the first hour followed by £50/hour thereafter. I guessed the
job would take between 1 and 2 hours. Today I found out they were going
to charge more than £150 for parts that I could easily buy for £50 at
retail prices. When they wouldn't justify the mark-up I cancelled and
will do the work myself when the warmer weather arrives. I was prepared
to pay the (OTT) labour rate but they blew it by putting such a huge
mark-up on the parts. Because of greed they lost the job.
I feel sorry for people who don't have the option to do things
themselves, or who don't know anything about the time jobs take and the
cost of materials.

What's the standard mark-up for plumbing parts? And what's the
recommended retail price for that part you can buy for £50? There are
some resellers who pile 'em high and sell 'em cheap, making up in
turnover for what they lose in margin and you can't expect a tradesman
to compete with that on his trade discount. Of course if the part you
can buy for fifty quid only cost the plumber thirty then at £150 he is
taking the ****.


Nick

There were a few parts needed, which the company could almost certainly
buy for less than I can. They then mark them up by more than 3x - and
add VAT when the original price had it included.

On 19/05/2021 05:32, Richard wrote:
On 18/05/2021 21:39, wrote:
I've been talking to a rural plumbing firm about a small job that I
could do, but didn't fancy doing, and had agreed their published rate
of £90 for the first hour followed by £50/hour thereafter. I guessed
the job would take between 1 and 2 hours. Today I found out they were
going to charge more than £150 for parts that I could easily buy for
£50 at retail prices. When they wouldn't justify the mark-up I
cancelled and will do the work myself when the warmer weather arrives.
I was prepared to pay the (OTT) labour rate but they blew it by
putting such a huge mark-up on the parts. Because of greed they lost
the job.
I feel sorry for people who don't have the option to do things
themselves, or who don't know anything about the time jobs take and
the cost of materials.

So you are on minimum wage then?
If not, maybe you're just being greedy.
Neither, 'just moaning about excessive charging and pointing-out that
they lost a lucrative (but small) job by over-doing it.

On 19/05/2021 09:38, charles wrote:
In article ,
Nick Odell wrote:
On Tue, 18 May 2021 21:39:23 +0100, wrote:

I've been talking to a rural plumbing firm about a small job that I
could do, but didn't fancy doing, and had agreed their published rate of
£90 for the first hour followed by £50/hour thereafter. I guessed the
job would take between 1 and 2 hours. Today I found out they were going
to charge more than £150 for parts that I could easily buy for £50 at
retail prices. When they wouldn't justify the mark-up I cancelled and
will do the work myself when the warmer weather arrives. I was prepared
to pay the (OTT) labour rate but they blew it by putting such a huge
mark-up on the parts. Because of greed they lost the job.
I feel sorry for people who don't have the option to do things
themselves, or who don't know anything about the time jobs take and the
cost of materials.

What's the standard mark-up for plumbing parts? And what's the
recommended retail price for that part you can buy for £50? There are
some resellers who pile 'em high and sell 'em cheap, making up in
turnover for what they lose in margin and you can't expect a tradesman
to compete with that on his trade discount. Of course if the part you
can buy for fifty quid only cost the plumber thirty then at £150 he is
taking the ****.

But, you need to actor in the time taken to go and get the part(s) and the
cost of going to the supplier. I've just taken an hour and a 20 mile
round trip to get a sack of Postcrete.
The wonders of the Internet and rapid delivery have solved that problem
(admittedly, probably not for postcrete)


Nick

wrote:
The wonders of the Internet and rapid delivery have solved that problem
(admittedly, probably not for postcrete)

How do tradespeople handle deliveries? I can understand what they do if
they're on site for weeks (deliver to site, especially large materials), but
random parcel delivery that could come any time between 8am and midnight?

I'm sure it's fine if they have an office or a yard with staff available to
receive, but if they're a one man band with a van?

I can see the traditional mode of going to the builder's merchant first
thing still has its advantages...

Theo

On 19/05/2021 09:53, wrote:
On 18/05/2021 22:21, newshound wrote:
On 18/05/2021 21:39, wrote:
I've been talking to a rural plumbing firm about a small job that I
could do, but didn't fancy doing, and had agreed their published rate
of £90 for the first hour followed by £50/hour thereafter. I guessed
the job would take between 1 and 2 hours. Today I found out they were
going to charge more than £150 for parts that I could easily buy for
£50 at retail prices. When they wouldn't justify the mark-up I
cancelled and will do the work myself when the warmer weather
arrives. I was prepared to pay the (OTT) labour rate but they blew it
by putting such a huge mark-up on the parts. Because of greed they
lost the job.
I feel sorry for people who don't have the option to do things
themselves, or who don't know anything about the time jobs take and
the cost of materials.

I don't know whether you have ever run your own business, but many
people who have not significantly underestimate the overheads for
firms like these. You may be right, this firm could be taking the
****. If you actually used them, you might find that they "round down"
their hours, or are scrupulous about stopping the clock during tea
breaks.

While I am pretty skeptical about TripAdvisor and the like, it is
interesting to see what reviews firms get on social media. To my mind,
there is nothing to beat a personal recommendation.
The overheads should be adequately covered by the call-out and hourly
charges - assuming 3 small jobs a day and 6 chargeable hours means
£420/day. Marking-up parts by more than 3x is taking the proverbial

No, its marketing.

People will pay for parts, but they dislike paying invisible overheads.

Even 'call out charges'

Remember that 'hourly rate' isn't for a man with a spade who walked
there and got paid cash, there are tools, test equipment, third party
insurance, vehicles, membership of professional organisations, stock
holding, book keeping and so on.

Marking up parts to full retail plus 40% is a way of justifying a larger
bill that people would resent if paid as 'labour'.

I have often wondered if opening a restaurant that charged like
this,would be profitable or a total disaster

Entering clean warm well lit insured premises and sitting down at table
£13.50
Clearing up and washing plates and cutlery used £3.50
13 minutes of undivided attention from hot waitress in smart clean
uniform £7.25
3 minutes of skilled cork extraction from the wine waiter £3
22 minutes of skilled cooking from qualified kitchen staff £22
wine £1.40
1 sirloin stake. £3.50
1 vegetables 0.75p
sauces and condiments 0.15p
1 Apple crumble 0.37p
1 cream 0.15p
1 coffee 0.25p

The bill is ~£50 of which actual food cost is around a fiver.

When I had a girlfriend with a pro qualification in catering back in the
70s, that was about the ratio the industry normally used. 10%.

the guy who fixed my boiler was the same. In the end parts were about
double what they should have been, so £80 labour + £120 parts turned
into £320 inc VAT.

And I think that there were a few parts in there that weren't strictly
necessary

BUT I never got that boiler serviced - once in 20 years I think - so in
the end the fact that nearly all the parts that *could* go, had been
replaced, was probably worth the 'service' charge.

In the end, look at the total job and work out if, in the end, it was
worth it.



--
Any fool can believe in principles - and most of them do!

"charles" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Nick Odell wrote:
On Tue, 18 May 2021 21:39:23 +0100, wrote:

I've been talking to a rural plumbing firm about a small job that I
could do, but didn't fancy doing, and had agreed their published rate of
£90 for the first hour followed by £50/hour thereafter. I guessed the
job would take between 1 and 2 hours. Today I found out they were going
to charge more than £150 for parts that I could easily buy for £50 at
retail prices. When they wouldn't justify the mark-up I cancelled and
will do the work myself when the warmer weather arrives. I was prepared
to pay the (OTT) labour rate but they blew it by putting such a huge
mark-up on the parts. Because of greed they lost the job.
I feel sorry for people who don't have the option to do things
themselves, or who don't know anything about the time jobs take and the
cost of materials.

What's the standard mark-up for plumbing parts? And what's the
recommended retail price for that part you can buy for £50? There are
some resellers who pile 'em high and sell 'em cheap, making up in
turnover for what they lose in margin and you can't expect a tradesman
to compete with that on his trade discount. Of course if the part you
can buy for fifty quid only cost the plumber thirty then at £150 he is
taking the ****.

But, you need to actor in the time taken to go and get the part(s) and the
cost of going to the supplier. I've just taken an hour and a 20 mile
round trip to get a sack of Postcrete.

(pre Covid) most suppliers of bulk building material deliver for free

On 19/05/2021 08:31, Jeff Layman wrote:
On 19/05/2021 00:34, Fredxx wrote:
On 18/05/2021 21:39, wrote:
I've been talking to a rural plumbing firm about a small job that I
could do, but didn't fancy doing, and had agreed their published rate of
£90 for the first hour followed by £50/hour thereafter. I guessed the
job would take between 1 and 2 hours. Today I found out they were going
to charge more than £150 for parts that I could easily buy for £50 at
retail prices. When they wouldn't justify the mark-up I cancelled and
will do the work myself when the warmer weather arrives. I was prepared
to pay the (OTT) labour rate but they blew it by putting such a huge
mark-up on the parts. Because of greed they lost the job.
I feel sorry for people who don't have the option to do things
themselves, or who don't know anything about the time jobs take and the
cost of materials.


One technique is to get the parts yourself, but if they are faulty you
should expect to pay for their labour to replace the part.

If you run a business you expect 1,000 working hours from an employee.
Simply divide salary + NI, plus overheads van etc and divide by 1,000.
That gets you a break even hourly rate.

Another crude way of costing out a job is 3 x hourly cost of employment.

If you add VAT you can see why tradesmen cost so much.

Many years ago when we had a new boiler fitted the gas service engineer
we'd used for years said that it would be better if we ordered the
boiler direct. That way it didn't appear on his bill and so he kept
below the VAT threshold based on turnover.

That does keep things simple.

The plumber could have acted as the customer's agent and purchased on
their behalf. The purchase doesn't then count towards the turnover VAT
limit. Any fee/profit would of course. "Undisclosed agent" is the term.

It would safest to have a "client account" for that side of business to
separate out the two.

In article ,
Fredxx wrote:
On 18/05/2021 21:39, wrote:
I've been talking to a rural plumbing firm about a small job that I
could do, but didn't fancy doing, and had agreed their published rate of
£90 for the first hour followed by £50/hour thereafter. I guessed the
job would take between 1 and 2 hours. Today I found out they were going
to charge more than £150 for parts that I could easily buy for £50 at
retail prices. When they wouldn't justify the mark-up I cancelled and
will do the work myself when the warmer weather arrives. I was prepared
to pay the (OTT) labour rate but they blew it by putting such a huge
mark-up on the parts. Because of greed they lost the job.
I feel sorry for people who don't have the option to do things
themselves, or who don't know anything about the time jobs take and the
cost of materials.


One technique is to get the parts yourself, but if they are faulty you
should expect to pay for their labour to replace the part.

If your plumber has given a price based on him supplying the parts at a
profit, he's unlikely to do the job for the same labour costs only. Human
nature, I'm afraid.

If you run a business you expect 1,000 working hours from an employee.
Simply divide salary + NI, plus overheads van etc and divide by 1,000.
That gets you a break even hourly rate.

Another crude way of costing out a job is 3 x hourly cost of employment.

If you add VAT you can see why tradesmen cost so much.

--
*A conscience is what hurts when all your other parts feel so good *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article , tim...
wrote:


"charles" wrote in message
...
In article , Nick Odell
wrote:
On Tue, 18 May 2021 21:39:23 +0100, wrote:

I've been talking to a rural plumbing firm about a small job that I
could do, but didn't fancy doing, and had agreed their published rate
of £90 for the first hour followed by £50/hour thereafter. I guessed
the job would take between 1 and 2 hours. Today I found out they were
going to charge more than £150 for parts that I could easily buy for
£50 at retail prices. When they wouldn't justify the mark-up I
cancelled and will do the work myself when the warmer weather
arrives. I was prepared to pay the (OTT) labour rate but they blew it
by putting such a huge mark-up on the parts. Because of greed they
lost the job. I feel sorry for people who don't have the option to do
things themselves, or who don't know anything about the time jobs
take and the cost of materials.

What's the standard mark-up for plumbing parts? And what's the
recommended retail price for that part you can buy for £50? There are
some resellers who pile 'em high and sell 'em cheap, making up in
turnover for what they lose in margin and you can't expect a tradesman
to compete with that on his trade discount. Of course if the part you
can buy for fifty quid only cost the plumber thirty then at £150 he is
taking the ****.

But, you need to actor in the time taken to go and get the part(s) and
the cost of going to the supplier. I've just taken an hour and a 20
mile round trip to get a sack of Postcrete.

(pre Covid) most suppliers of bulk building material deliver for free

usually witn a significant minimum order



--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

On 19/05/2021 13:16, Fredxx wrote:
On 19/05/2021 08:31, Jeff Layman wrote:
The plumber could have acted as the customer's agent and purchased on
their behalf. The purchase doesn't then count towards the turnover VAT
limit. Any fee/profit would of course. "Undisclosed agent" is the term.


Another term is "disbursement" where HMRC have separate guidance to try
to keep thinks simple (well simpler than Vat Notice 700!). Crucial
points are to make clear you are acting as agent, don't add mark-up and
itemise everything on invoices.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/vat-cost...d-to-customers

--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

This thread has made me feel a lot better about DIYing. The saving on labour costs has always been an incentive to DIY but I always felt I was missing out when it came to buying parts and materials at retail prices, well it looks like I am quids in there as well.

Richard

On 19/05/2021 14:43, Tricky Dicky wrote:
This thread has made me feel a lot better about DIYing. The saving on labour costs has always been an incentive to DIY but I always felt I was missing out when it came to buying parts and materials at retail prices, well it looks like I am quids in there as well.

Richard



Its easy enough to get a trade account with Travis perkins, Jewsons,
Denmans, CEF etc etc if you are say a landlord with buy to let property
and you have to undertake property maintenance on said properties.

Toolstation ansd Screwfix are better value than the DIY sheds like B&Q
or Wickes.

S.

On Tue, 18 May 2021 21:39:23 +0100, wrote:

I've been talking to a rural plumbing firm about a small job that I
could do, but didn't fancy doing, and had agreed their published rate of
£90 for the first hour followed by £50/hour thereafter. I guessed the
job would take between 1 and 2 hours. Today I found out they were going
to charge more than £150 for parts that I could easily buy for £50 at
retail prices. When they wouldn't justify the mark-up I cancelled and
will do the work myself when the warmer weather arrives. I was prepared
to pay the (OTT) labour rate but they blew it by putting such a huge
mark-up on the parts. Because of greed they lost the job.
I feel sorry for people who don't have the option to do things
themselves, or who don't know anything about the time jobs take and the
cost of materials.

I had a rasiator installed in February. A big bugger. Too heavy for
DIY.
I found some plumbers, not vat registered, who quoted £180, which I
thought was reasonable. They (two of them) were here about three hours
and did a tidy job. But when they turned the water on they found that
the header tank float valve wasn't working. They had to go out for
their own purposes so agreed to get a new one and fit it when then
came back to tidy up, which they did.
The valve, which would have cost about £5, and fitting it (about
15mins) cost me £85, which i thought was taking advantage, and has
put me off wanting to use them again.

On 19/05/2021 13:49, charles wrote:
In article , tim...
wrote:


(pre Covid) most suppliers of bulk building material deliver for free

usually witn a significant minimum order


A painter and decorator was working in a house opposite
me. One day a small lorry turned up, signwritten in
the logo and decals of a Paint supplier based 10 miles
away and handed over three tins of paint. I assume the
decorator had a trade account with them so they just
delivered to where the guy was working. Customer just
ends up paying.

On 19/05/2021 11:17, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
The overheads should be adequately covered by the call-out and hourly
charges - assuming 3 small jobs a day and 6 chargeable hours means
£420/day. Marking-up parts by more than 3x is taking the proverbial

No, its marketing.

People will pay for parts, but they dislike paying invisible overheads.



When I was doing domestic work, installing/repairing aerials and dishes,
I was well aware that the customer who was charged £100 would probably
assume that the materials were £80 and the labour etc was £20, and he'd
be happy in his delusion. Of course the real figures were the other way
round.

In that industry customers have always tried to beat the system by
buying the parts from a DIY shed then ringing up and wanting the stuff
installed. "I'd do it myself, I mean, it isn't rocket science is it, but
I've broken my leg
My wife won't let me
I'm far too busy because I'm very important
I haven't got a ladder
If I climb up a ladder it bothers the dog."
These guys always expect you to quote about £20 max. So we get to this:
"What? I paid £100 for the parts at B & Wicked!"
It can go in various directions after that.

Bill

On 19/05/2021 10:36, Theo wrote:
How do tradespeople handle deliveries? I can understand what they do if
they're on site for weeks (deliver to site, especially large materials), but
random parcel delivery that could come any time between 8am and midnight?

I'm sure it's fine if they have an office or a yard with staff available to

Most stuff comes from the wholesalers. Other stuff that's off the net
you can have delivered to the wholesaler or to your mam's house. The
latter has worked even better since you've been able to tell her she
must never go out on pain of a covid death.

Bill

On 19/05/2021 15:12, Andrew wrote:

A painter and decorator was working in a house opposite
me. One day a small lorry turned up, signwritten in
the logo and decals of a Paint supplier based 10 miles
away and handed over three tins of paint. I assume the
decorator had a trade account with them so they just
delivered to where the guy was working. Customer just
ends up paying.

It's quite efficient. It's the model used by auto parts suppliers. They
can do a delivery round to a dozen garages and not cover many miles.

Bill

In article ,
Tricky Dicky wrote:
This thread has made me feel a lot better about DIYing. The saving on
labour costs has always been an incentive to DIY but I always felt I was
missing out when it came to buying parts and materials at retail prices,
well it looks like I am quids in there as well.

For large one off items (like boilers and rads) you're likely to find them
cheaper on Ebay than a plumber pays locally.

--
*In some places, C:\ is the root of all directories *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Peter Johnson submitted this idea :
The valve, which would have cost about £5, and fitting it (about
15mins) cost me £85, which i thought was taking advantage, and has
put me off wanting to use them again.

Quote cheap for the original job and make it up on the extras.

williamwright wrote:
On 19/05/2021 15:12, Andrew wrote:

A painter and decorator was working in a house opposite
me. One day a small lorry turned up, signwritten in
the logo and decals of a Paint supplier based 10 miles
away and handed over three tins of paint. I assume the
decorator had a trade account with them so they just
delivered to where the guy was working. Customer just
ends up paying.

It's quite efficient. It's the model used by auto parts suppliers. They
can do a delivery round to a dozen garages and not cover many miles.

It's really useful for garages, because you can have the vehicle in bits on
the lift, discover you really need a part, and they'll put one on the van
for delivery in time for you to complete the job in time for the customer
pickup at the end of the day.

That's the service the customer is paying for. I presume there's a fleet of
vans delivering stuff to local garages in early afternoon that was ordered
in the morning.

Theo

On 19/05/2021 18:15, williamwright wrote:
On 19/05/2021 11:17, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
The overheads should be adequately covered by the call-out and hourly
charges - assuming 3 small jobs a day and 6 chargeable hours means
£420/day. Marking-up parts by more than 3x is taking the proverbial

No, its marketing.

People will pay for parts, but they dislike paying invisible overheads.



When I was doing domestic work

Sundays customers were stars.

They were given my number as a recommendation. The job sounded easy (it
was) but I really did not fancy an hours round trip to look at the job
so I quoted an hourly price plus parts.

They were happy with that plus they wanted extra stuff such as light
fittings swapping and not all light fittings are equal.

All went well for the first 10 minutes until they went to Screwfix to
buy a new light fitting and locked the door on their way out leaving me
in the house and most of what I needed in the van.




--
Adam

On 18/05/2021 21:39, wrote:
I've been talking to a rural plumbing firm about a small job that I
could do, but didn't fancy doing, and had agreed their published rate of
£90 for the first hour followed by £50/hour thereafter. I guessed the
job would take between 1 and 2 hours. Today I found out they were going
to charge more than £150 for parts that I could easily buy for £50 at
retail prices. When they wouldn't justify the mark-up I cancelled and
will do the work myself when the warmer weather arrives. I was prepared
to pay the (OTT) labour rate but they blew it by putting such a huge
mark-up on the parts. Because of greed they lost the job.
I feel sorry for people who don't have the option to do things
themselves, or who don't know anything about the time jobs take and the
cost of materials.
I'm sure they care

All went well for the first 10 minutes until they went to Screwfix to
buy a new light fitting and locked the door on their way out leaving me
in the house and most of what I needed in the van.

You could have had "Breaking and exiting" added to your record Adam
;-)

--
Graham.
%Profound_observation%

On 20/05/2021 15:46, Graham. wrote:


All went well for the first 10 minutes until they went to Screwfix to
buy a new light fitting and locked the door on their way out leaving me
in the house and most of what I needed in the van.

You could have had "Breaking and exiting" added to your record Adam
;-)



no need for that, just open a window and climb through......

Its not just plumbers, its drain unblockers Locksmiths etc as well. Its
getting so bad many local authorities seem to be giving lists of good ones
that don't have hidden charges or rip off prices.

Brian

--

This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"ARW" wrote in message
...
On 19/05/2021 18:15, williamwright wrote:
On 19/05/2021 11:17, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
The overheads should be adequately covered by the call-out and hourly
charges - assuming 3 small jobs a day and 6 chargeable hours means
£420/day. Marking-up parts by more than 3x is taking the proverbial

No, its marketing.

People will pay for parts, but they dislike paying invisible overheads.



When I was doing domestic work

Sundays customers were stars.

They were given my number as a recommendation. The job sounded easy (it
was) but I really did not fancy an hours round trip to look at the job so
I quoted an hourly price plus parts.

They were happy with that plus they wanted extra stuff such as light
fittings swapping and not all light fittings are equal.

All went well for the first 10 minutes until they went to Screwfix to buy
a new light fitting and locked the door on their way out leaving me in the
house and most of what I needed in the van.




--
Adam

In article ,
writes
On 19/05/2021 09:38, charles wrote:
In article ,
Nick Odell wrote:
On Tue, 18 May 2021 21:39:23 +0100, wrote:

I've been talking to a rural plumbing firm about a small job that I
could do, but didn't fancy doing, and had agreed their published rate of
£90 for the first hour followed by £50/hour thereafter. I guessed the
job would take between 1 and 2 hours. Today I found out they were going
to charge more than £150 for parts that I could easily buy for £50 at
retail prices. When they wouldn't justify the mark-up I cancelled and
will do the work myself when the warmer weather arrives. I was prepared
to pay the (OTT) labour rate but they blew it by putting such a huge
mark-up on the parts. Because of greed they lost the job.
I feel sorry for people who don't have the option to do things
themselves, or who don't know anything about the time jobs take and the
cost of materials.

What's the standard mark-up for plumbing parts? And what's the
recommended retail price for that part you can buy for £50? There are
some resellers who pile 'em high and sell 'em cheap, making up in
turnover for what they lose in margin and you can't expect a tradesman
to compete with that on his trade discount. Of course if the part you
can buy for fifty quid only cost the plumber thirty then at £150 he is
taking the ****.
But, you need to actor in the time taken to go and get the part(s)
and the
cost of going to the supplier. I've just taken an hour and a 20 mile
round trip to get a sack of Postcrete.
The wonders of the Internet and rapid delivery have solved that problem
(admittedly, probably not for postcrete)

Nick


What? Not on Amazon Prime?
--
bert

In article , ARW
writes
On 19/05/2021 18:15, williamwright wrote:
On 19/05/2021 11:17, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
The overheads should be adequately covered by the call-out and
hourly charges - assuming 3 small jobs a day and 6 chargeable hours
means £420/day. Marking-up parts by more than 3x is taking the proverbial

No, its marketing.

People will pay for parts, but they dislike paying invisible overheads.
When I was doing domestic work

Sundays customers were stars.

They were given my number as a recommendation. The job sounded easy (it
was) but I really did not fancy an hours round trip to look at the job
so I quoted an hourly price plus parts.

They were happy with that plus they wanted extra stuff such as light
fittings swapping and not all light fittings are equal.

All went well for the first 10 minutes until they went to Screwfix to
buy a new light fitting and locked the door on their way out leaving me
in the house and most of what I needed in the van.




Did they put the alarm on?
--
bert

On 20/05/2021 16:06, SH wrote:
On 20/05/2021 15:46, Graham. wrote:


All went well for the first 10 minutes until they went to Screwfix to
buy a new light fitting and locked the door on their way out leaving me
in the house and most of what I needed in the van.

You could have had "Breaking and exiting" added to your record Adam
;-)



no need for that, just open a window and climb through......

And if locked, but internally beaded, just remove a DG unit
from the frame ...

On 21/05/2021 13:10, Andrew wrote:
On 20/05/2021 16:06, SH wrote:
On 20/05/2021 15:46, Graham. wrote:


All went well for the first 10 minutes until they went to Screwfix to
buy a new light fitting and locked the door on their way out leaving me
in the house and most of what I needed in the van.

You could have had "Breaking and exiting" added to your record Adam
;-)



no need for that, just open a window and climb through......

And if locked, but internally beaded, just remove a DG unit
from the frame ...


And as his tools were in his van, he could have raided the kitchen draw
for a knife and the kitchen cupboard for the meat tenderising mallet to
extract the DG beading!

All it needs is a bit of lateral thinking! :-)

On Wed, 19 May 2021 15:12:38 +0100, Andrew
wrote:


A painter and decorator was working in a house opposite
me. One day a small lorry turned up, signwritten in
the logo and decals of a Paint supplier based 10 miles
away and handed over three tins of paint. I assume the
decorator had a trade account with them so they just
delivered to where the guy was working. Customer just
ends up paying.

When I worked for Crown, nearly 20 years ago now, we'd often deliver
to a decorator's worksite. There was no extra charge for it. And often
the decs were getting a good trade rate, too.
Some of them had us deliver to their home addresses. If there was no
one in we'd leave the paint inside the side gate or behind a bush.

"charles" wrote in message
...
In article , tim...
wrote:


"charles" wrote in message
...
In article , Nick Odell
wrote:
On Tue, 18 May 2021 21:39:23 +0100, wrote:

I've been talking to a rural plumbing firm about a small job that I
could do, but didn't fancy doing, and had agreed their published rate
of £90 for the first hour followed by £50/hour thereafter. I guessed
the job would take between 1 and 2 hours. Today I found out they were
going to charge more than £150 for parts that I could easily buy for
£50 at retail prices. When they wouldn't justify the mark-up I
cancelled and will do the work myself when the warmer weather
arrives. I was prepared to pay the (OTT) labour rate but they blew it
by putting such a huge mark-up on the parts. Because of greed they
lost the job. I feel sorry for people who don't have the option to do
things themselves, or who don't know anything about the time jobs
take and the cost of materials.

What's the standard mark-up for plumbing parts? And what's the
recommended retail price for that part you can buy for £50? There are
some resellers who pile 'em high and sell 'em cheap, making up in
turnover for what they lose in margin and you can't expect a tradesman
to compete with that on his trade discount. Of course if the part you
can buy for fifty quid only cost the plumber thirty then at £150 he is
taking the ****.

But, you need to actor in the time taken to go and get the part(s) and
the cost of going to the supplier. I've just taken an hour and a 20
mile round trip to get a sack of Postcrete.

(pre Covid) most suppliers of bulk building material deliver for free

usually witn a significant minimum order

IME not