I seem to be getting a lot of RCD failures when the RCD does not trip
with the test button of with the RCD tester.

But after manually turning the RCD off and back on it works within spec.

So give yours a test. It could save you from a belt.

--
Adam

On 28/03/2021 16:02, ARW wrote:
I seem to be getting a lot of RCD failures when the RCD does not trip
with the test button of with the RCD tester.

But after manually turning the RCD off and back on it works within spec.

So give yours a test. It could save you from a belt.


I am not a fan of extra regulation without cost-benefit assessment but
that seems a strong case to at least explore with stakeholders requiring
landlords to give tenants advice/instruction to test RCD(s) every 3
months. Could be added on to the requirement to give them a copy of the
EICR.



--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

ARW wrote:

I seem to be getting a lot of RCD failures when the RCD does not trip
with the test button of with the RCD tester.

But after manually turning the RCD off and back on it works within spec.

So give yours a test. It could save you from a belt.

I'm surprised an RCD that's temperamental like that isn't regarded as
faulty and needs replacing? Who's to say how quickly after TIOATIOA it
becomes temperamental again?

On 28 Mar 2021 at 16:23:03 BST, "Robin" wrote:

On 28/03/2021 16:02, ARW wrote:
I seem to be getting a lot of RCD failures when the RCD does not trip
with the test button of with the RCD tester.

But after manually turning the RCD off and back on it works within spec.

So give yours a test. It could save you from a belt.


I am not a fan of extra regulation without cost-benefit assessment but
that seems a strong case to at least explore with stakeholders requiring
landlords to give tenants advice/instruction to test RCD(s) every 3
months. Could be added on to the requirement to give them a copy of the
EICR.

One of mine trips several times a week, whenever their is a brief power
outage, which is that often, although perhaps there is a lot of baseline earth
leakage.[1} Is this common, it is a little annoying?

[1] I can't reset it without disconnecting one of the power circuits quite
often, one day I'll look into it.

--
Roger Hayter

On 28/03/2021 16:23, Robin wrote:
On 28/03/2021 16:02, ARW wrote:
I seem to be getting a lot of RCD failures when the RCD does not trip
with the test button of with the RCD tester.

But after manually turning the RCD off and back on it works within spec.

So give yours a test. It could save you from a belt.


I am not a fan of extra regulation without cost-benefit assessment but
that seems a strong case to at least explore with stakeholders requiring
landlords to give tenants advice/instruction to test RCD(s) every 3
months.Â* Could be added on to the requirement to give them a copy of the
EICR.




Adam is suggesting that all householders should do this, so why should
tenants need special advice?

Mind you, I haven't had a gas safety check done in the 22 years I've
lived in this house.

On 28/03/2021 16:52, Andy Burns wrote:
ARW wrote:

I seem to be getting a lot of RCD failures when the RCD does not trip
with the test button of with the RCD tester.

But after manually turning the RCD off and back on it works within spec.

So give yours a test. It could save you from a belt.

I'm surprised an RCD that's temperamental like that isn't regarded as
faulty and needs replacing?Â* Who's to say how quickly after TIOATIOA it
becomes temperamental again?

I have had different views on that.


--
Adam

On 28/03/2021 17:20, GB wrote:
On 28/03/2021 16:23, Robin wrote:
On 28/03/2021 16:02, ARW wrote:
I seem to be getting a lot of RCD failures when the RCD does not trip
with the test button of with the RCD tester.

But after manually turning the RCD off and back on it works within spec.

So give yours a test. It could save you from a belt.


I am not a fan of extra regulation without cost-benefit assessment but
that seems a strong case to at least explore with stakeholders
requiring landlords to give tenants advice/instruction to test RCD(s)
every 3 months.Â* Could be added on to the requirement to give them a
copy of the EICR.




Adam is suggesting that all householders should do this, so why should
tenants need special advice?

Possibly because they do not do any electrical DIY!

But seriously I am suggesting that any readers of this post actually try
their RCD test button if they have not done so for years.



--
Adam

On 28/03/2021 16:02, ARW wrote:
I seem to be getting a lot of RCD failures when the RCD does not trip
with the test button of with the RCD tester.

But after manually turning the RCD off and back on it works within spec.

So give yours a test. It could save you from a belt.


Would connecting up a low wattage bulb between RCD live and
non-RCD neutral so that a known number of millamps creates
an imbalance - and should trip it ??

On 28/03/2021 17:53, ARW wrote:
On 28/03/2021 16:52, Andy Burns wrote:
ARW wrote:

I seem to be getting a lot of RCD failures when the RCD does not trip
with the test button of with the RCD tester.

But after manually turning the RCD off and back on it works within spec.

So give yours a test. It could save you from a belt.

I'm surprised an RCD that's temperamental like that isn't regarded as
faulty and needs replacing?Â* Who's to say how quickly after TIOATIOA
it becomes temperamental again?

I have had different views on that.

Our (whole house) RCD frequently tripped. It was pretty well on the edge
all the time due to the number of items of computer equipment with their
leaky filters (a dual PSU server, 4 and at times 5 PCs, plus printers,
satellite boxes, etc.)

I have had no problems at all since I took out the RCD and fitted RCBOs
- a slightly complicated task as it is an old Crabtree Starbreaker with
a 14-way busbar that needed to be changed from a split one to a
continuous one ... and you can only buy the 15-way versions for the
newer Starbreakers. In the end, I had to buy a 15-way, carefully remove
the end plastic (which includes the mounting), cut down the busbar and
re-attach the end.

On 28/03/2021 18:31, Andrew wrote:
On 28/03/2021 16:02, ARW wrote:
I seem to be getting a lot of RCD failures when the RCD does not trip
with the test button of with the RCD tester.

But after manually turning the RCD off and back on it works within spec.

So give yours a test. It could save you from a belt.


Would connecting up a low wattage bulb between RCD live and
non-RCD neutral so that a known number of millamps creates
an imbalance - and should trip it ??

Surely that's basically what the RCD's own test button does and just
connects a known resistance between its outgoing live and its incoming
neutral?

"GB" wrote in message
...
On 28/03/2021 16:23, Robin wrote:
On 28/03/2021 16:02, ARW wrote:
I seem to be getting a lot of RCD failures when the RCD does not trip
with the test button of with the RCD tester.

But after manually turning the RCD off and back on it works within spec.

So give yours a test. It could save you from a belt.


I am not a fan of extra regulation without cost-benefit assessment but
that seems a strong case to at least explore with stakeholders requiring
landlords to give tenants advice/instruction to test RCD(s) every 3
months. Could be added on to the requirement to give them a copy of the
EICR.

Adam is suggesting that all householders should do this,

Nope, just us in here.

so why should tenants need special advice?

Because they mostly wouldnt have a ****ing clue what an RCD is.

Mind you, I haven't had a gas safety check done in the 22 years I've lived
in this house.

On 28/03/2021 17:20, GB wrote:
On 28/03/2021 16:23, Robin wrote:
On 28/03/2021 16:02, ARW wrote:
I seem to be getting a lot of RCD failures when the RCD does not trip
with the test button of with the RCD tester.

But after manually turning the RCD off and back on it works within spec.

So give yours a test. It could save you from a belt.


I am not a fan of extra regulation without cost-benefit assessment but
that seems a strong case to at least explore with stakeholders
requiring landlords to give tenants advice/instruction to test RCD(s)
every 3 months.Â* Could be added on to the requirement to give them a
copy of the EICR.




Adam is suggesting that all householders should do this, so why should
tenants need special advice?


I am not suggesting tenants /need/ special advice.

I am suggesting the way landlords must give tenants bumf about their
installation at least once every 5 years may provide a cost-effective
way to remind to test their RCD(s) periodically. (But I would also wager
tenants are on average more clueless about such things.)

I am agnostic as to whether it would be cost-effective to remind other
householders.

How about we start with a survey of a totally unrepresentative sample of
what happens now. When did you and others last test your RCD(s)?

[I check mine once a year with a (many years-since-it-was-calibrated)
tester - starting at the lowest current and working up. But then I'm
cautious 'cos I know the numpty who did most of the wiring.]



--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

On Mon, 29 Mar 2021 06:14:16 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

Adam is suggesting that all householders should do this,

Nope

Get treatment, senile ****head! Or, better, swallow your nembutal! What are
you waiting for? Everyone will despise you for as long as you breathe!

--
Website (from 2007) dedicated to the 86-year-old senile Australian
cretin's pathological trolling:
https://www.pcreview.co.uk/threads/r...d-faq.2973853/

On 28/03/2021 17:01, Roger Hayter wrote:
On 28 Mar 2021 at 16:23:03 BST, "Robin" wrote:

On 28/03/2021 16:02, ARW wrote:
I seem to be getting a lot of RCD failures when the RCD does not trip
with the test button of with the RCD tester.

But after manually turning the RCD off and back on it works within spec.

So give yours a test. It could save you from a belt.

I test mine (a local one on the extension lead) before cutting the hedge.

I am not a fan of extra regulation without cost-benefit assessment but
that seems a strong case to at least explore with stakeholders requiring
landlords to give tenants advice/instruction to test RCD(s) every 3
months. Could be added on to the requirement to give them a copy of the
EICR.

One of mine trips several times a week, whenever their is a brief power
outage, which is that often, although perhaps there is a lot of baseline earth
leakage.[1} Is this common, it is a little annoying?

Might be worth looking for the earth leakage. Immersion heaters are big
suspects in that sort of borderline trip thing. Mine went to a hard fail
a few weeks back but there were hints of something every now and then.

[1] I can't reset it without disconnecting one of the power circuits quite
often, one day I'll look into it.

You might want to look at the offending circuit to find the fault.

I had an interesting one that was a hard fault in the kitchen ring main
that really wouldn't go away. Turned out the kitchen fitters had put a 2
connection junction box on the floor with the lid on allowing 3 ways in
and a slug had got into it and then been electrocuted.

Dead slug and slime proved to be remarkably conductive

No idea how the slug came to be in the kitchen.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

Which reminded me, why is it that a breaker of any type often seems, maybe
through never having been tripped for years can take too long to trip when
it finally does have a fault to protect against which can often mean a whole
fitting needs to be replaced due to overheating. Is it just build up of crud
or whatever, and should one say every few months manually trip these one at
a time to make sure they keep healthy?

Brian

--

This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"ARW" wrote in message
...
I seem to be getting a lot of RCD failures when the RCD does not trip with
the test button of with the RCD tester.

But after manually turning the RCD off and back on it works within spec.

So give yours a test. It could save you from a belt.

--
Adam

On 29/03/2021 09:59, Owain Lastname wrote:
On Sunday, 28 March 2021 at 21:33:08 UTC+1, Robin wrote:
How about we start with a survey of a totally unrepresentative sample of
what happens now. When did you and others last test your RCD(s)?

With a meter, never.

With the test button, I'll go and do them both now.

It would have been slightly handier to do them before I reset the mains clocks yesterday.

Owain


Ping ARW!

I promised a follow up to the EICR performed on my rental house last Friday.

4 C3 advisories.


1. Position of earth rod for garage not found C3

As mentioned before, a 10mm earth wire comes out through teh wall and
disappears into the gravel. Removing said gravel woould then reveal the
top of the earth rod and the earth rod connection. I shall fit an
eartth rod inpection box to resolve this one

2. No grommets on cable entries on garage sub-consumer unit. C3


The Sparky clear was not concerned that there was no RCD or MCB or RCBO
in teh garage CU, its just a simple on off switch followed by 2 ceramic
catridge fuses.

In his defence, he did follow back the SWA to a 13A fused neon switch in
the lounge which in turn is connected to a 32A RCD & MCB protected ring
main.


3. 6 circuits have no RCD protection C3

These 6 a

Hob
Double oven
Lights up
lights down
Smoke alarm/emergency lights/intruder alarm
Outside lights.

(There are 3 further circuits that are protected by a single RCD, which is

kitchen sockets
Boiler
Whole house sockets (its a 2 bed semi)

4. No RCD protection in bathroom C3

This one puzzles me a little as all there is in the bathoom is a ceiling
light, a wall unit light and an extractor fan on the upstairs lighting
circuit and is one of the 6 circuits mentioned in No 3.....


I happen to have some spare ways in the CU so I am actually tempted to
rip out all the MCBs and the RCD and put in 9 RCBOs.

Howeever, is it an issue if the RCBOs are NOT teh same make as the CU casing

or would I be better off replacing the whole CU with a fire retardant
case and with matching make RCBO's?

On 29 Mar 2021 at 10:15:39 BST, ""Brian Gaff \" Sofa\)"
wrote:

Which reminded me, why is it that a breaker of any type often seems, maybe
through never having been tripped for years can take too long to trip when
it finally does have a fault to protect against which can often mean a whole
fitting needs to be replaced due to overheating. Is it just build up of crud
or whatever, and should one say every few months manually trip these one at
a time to make sure they keep healthy?

Brian

It is normally printed on the front of them that they should be tested
periodically. But you are not alone in not seeing that!

--
Roger Hayter

On 29/03/2021 12:45, Roger Hayter wrote:
On 29 Mar 2021 at 10:15:39 BST, ""Brian Gaff \" Sofa\)"
wrote:

Which reminded me, why is it that a breaker of any type often seems, maybe
through never having been tripped for years can take too long to trip when
it finally does have a fault to protect against which can often mean a whole
fitting needs to be replaced due to overheating. Is it just build up of crud
or whatever, and should one say every few months manually trip these one at
a time to make sure they keep healthy?

Brian

It is normally printed on the front of them that they should be tested
periodically. But you are not alone in not seeing that!


I think Brian might be referring to how MCBs (and RCBOs) perform with
over current rather than how RCDs (and RCBOs) perform with an imbalance.
Testing how breakers perform with stable, over & short-circuit
currents requires special kit. I'd be interested to know if even Adam
carries it routinely.

--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

SH wrote:
3. 6 circuits have no RCD protection C3

I presume this is because 18th edition says all circuits should have RCDs.
Therefore it's not to current regs, but was to regs at the time it was
installed. (Likewise plastic CUs)

4. No RCD protection in bathroom C3

This one puzzles me a little as all there is in the bathoom is a ceiling
light, a wall unit light and an extractor fan on the upstairs lighting
circuit and is one of the 6 circuits mentioned in No 3.....

Similarly, but also a higher risk in bathrooms. I don't suppose any of
those things might be within reach?

I happen to have some spare ways in the CU so I am actually tempted to
rip out all the MCBs and the RCD and put in 9 RCBOs.

Howeever, is it an issue if the RCBOs are NOT teh same make as the CU casing

MCBs, RCBOs, etc are certified to operate with a CU from the same
manufacturer. Doing it differently would be 'not in accordance with
manufacturer's instructions' which could get you another C3.

More practically, different manufacturers (or ranges) have different types
of busbars so the RCBOs may not fit the tangs on the busbar. An imperfect
fit could cause overheating and fire risk (as could improperly screwing down
the wires).

or would I be better off replacing the whole CU with a fire retardant
case and with matching make RCBO's?

That would resolve the issue. But could you not install RCBOs from the same
manufacturer as the CU? Replacing the CU would be notifiable work, whereas
(arguably) replacing an MCB with an RCBO wouldn't (although you should
perform RCD testing).

Some RCBOs are taller and may not fit, depending on how the wiring goes in
there. You would also need space on the neutral bar for the neutral tails,
as well as possibly a slot on the earth bar for a functional earth. It may
end up needing a new CU if it won't all fit, and there is something to be
said for metal CUs.

It sounds like it's currently satisfactory at present - depends how much
work you want to pay for...

Theo

(IANAelectrician)

On 29/03/2021 12:33, SH wrote:


Ping ARW!

I promised a follow up to the EICR performed on my rental house last
Friday.

4 C3 advisories.


1. Position of earth rod for garage not found C3

As mentioned before, a 10mm earth wire comes out through teh wall and
disappears into the gravel. Removing said gravel woould then reveal the
top of the earth rod and the earth rod connection.Â* I shall fit an
eartth rod inpection box to resolve this one

2. No grommets on cable entries on garage sub-consumer unit.Â*Â*Â* C3


The Sparky clear was not concerned that there was no RCD or MCB or RCBO
in teh garage CU, its just a simple on off switch followed by 2 ceramic
catridge fuses.

In his defence, he did follow back the SWA to a 13A fused neon switch in
the lounge which in turn is connected to a 32A RCD & MCB protected ring
main.


3. 6 circuits have no RCD protection C3

These 6 a

Hob
Double oven
Lights up
lights down
Smoke alarm/emergency lights/intruder alarm
Outside lights.

(There are 3 further circuits that are protected by a single RCD, which is

kitchen sockets
Boiler
Whole house sockets (its a 2 bed semi)

4.Â* No RCD protection in bathroom C3

This one puzzles me a little as all there is in the bathoom is a ceiling
light, a wall unit light and an extractor fan on the upstairs lighting
circuit and is one of the 6 circuits mentioned in No 3.....


I happen to have some spare ways in the CU so I am actually tempted to
rip out all the MCBs and the RCD and put in 9 RCBOs.

Howeever, is it an issue if the RCBOs are NOT teh same make as the CU
casing

or would I be better off replacing the whole CU with a fire retardant
case and with matching make RCBO's?

Thanks for getting back.

I am amazed that the plastic CU was not noted as C3. I would have noted it.

I knew the earth rod and cables in plaster less than 50mm would be C3.

As for the bathroom if there is supplementary bonding (usually to rads,
sink bath etc back to the light fitting) then it is a C3 (not to current
regs but met the regs when installed). If there is no bonding it's a C2.

Please do not put a different make of RCBO in your CU. What make is it
that you cannot get RCBOs for (or you can but they are £100 each).



My advice would be that (as you are already prepared to pay for 9 RCBOs)
then you might as well swap the CU for a metal one and leave enough
space in it for a SPD if it becomes a reg in a few years time. Or even
fit a SPD with this CU change. I believe that SPDs will be mandatory in
a few years time on all CUs.

Finally - I always make a note if the smoke alarms are past their
replace by date. There is no reg that says I can class that but it's
always good for good landlords to know that they need replacing.

--
Adam

ARW wrote:
My advice would be that (as you are already prepared to pay for 9 RCBOs)
then you might as well swap the CU for a metal one and leave enough
space in it for a SPD if it becomes a reg in a few years time. Or even
fit a SPD with this CU change. I believe that SPDs will be mandatory in
a few years time on all CUs.

OOI what brand(s) of CU do you prefer? We're likely going to need one
replaced soon, so I'm currently canvassing for opinions as to pros and cons.
Space is a bit constrained and I'd like to fit as many ways as possible
(including an SPD).

Theo

On 29/03/2021 20:57, Theo wrote:
ARW wrote:
My advice would be that (as you are already prepared to pay for 9 RCBOs)
then you might as well swap the CU for a metal one and leave enough
space in it for a SPD if it becomes a reg in a few years time. Or even
fit a SPD with this CU change. I believe that SPDs will be mandatory in
a few years time on all CUs.

OOI what brand(s) of CU do you prefer? We're likely going to need one
replaced soon, so I'm currently canvassing for opinions as to pros and cons.
Space is a bit constrained and I'd like to fit as many ways as possible
(including an SPD).

Theo


The last CU I did was a Curve M18.

This had 20 ways, two of which was taken up by a 2 pole 100 A isolator
leaving room for up to 18 RCBO's.....

I still have some space for a SPD or AFDD if Curve do any...

OPnly slightly annoying thing baout Curve RCBOs is that they do not have
a functional earth flying lead.

S.

SH wrote:

I still have some space for a SPD or AFDD if Curve do any...

As I understand them, AFDDs aren't fitted "as well as MCBs" like SPDs or
RCDs are, they're "instead of MCBs" like RCBOs are ...

Not cheap https://youtu.be/YDGeyJnoqZQ

On 29/03/2021 20:09, ARW wrote:
snip

Finally - I always make a note if the smoke alarms are past their
replace by date. There is no reg that says I can class that but it's
always good for good landlords to know that they need replacing.


Meanwhile there are landlords around here getting Code 2 on an EICR for
that from CPS members. Not to mention mind-boggling quotes for fitting
a like-for-like replacement.


--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

On 29/03/2021 20:57, Theo wrote:
ARW wrote:
My advice would be that (as you are already prepared to pay for 9 RCBOs)
then you might as well swap the CU for a metal one and leave enough
space in it for a SPD if it becomes a reg in a few years time. Or even
fit a SPD with this CU change. I believe that SPDs will be mandatory in
a few years time on all CUs.

OOI what brand(s) of CU do you prefer? We're likely going to need one
replaced soon, so I'm currently canvassing for opinions as to pros and cons.
Space is a bit constrained and I'd like to fit as many ways as possible
(including an SPD).


If you want to pay a Kings Ransom the Acti9 Isobar P.

However my choice of CU is Hager and has been for many years.



--
Adam

In article , ARW
wrote:
On 29/03/2021 20:57, Theo wrote:
ARW wrote:
My advice would be that (as you are already prepared to pay for 9
RCBOs) then you might as well swap the CU for a metal one and leave
enough space in it for a SPD if it becomes a reg in a few years time.
Or even fit a SPD with this CU change. I believe that SPDs will be
mandatory in a few years time on all CUs.

OOI what brand(s) of CU do you prefer? We're likely going to need one
replaced soon, so I'm currently canvassing for opinions as to pros and
cons. Space is a bit constrained and I'd like to fit as many ways as
possible (including an SPD).


If you want to pay a Kings Ransom the Acti9 Isobar P.

However my choice of CU is Hager and has been for many years.

They make nice kit.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

On 29/03/2021 21:14, SH wrote:
On 29/03/2021 20:57, Theo wrote:
ARW wrote:
My advice would be that (as you are already prepared to pay for 9 RCBOs)
then you might as well swap the CU for a metal one and leave enough
space in it for a SPD if it becomes a reg in a few years time. Or even
fit a SPD with this CU change. I believe that SPDs will be mandatory in
a few years time on all CUs.

OOI what brand(s) of CU do you prefer?Â* We're likely going to need one
replaced soon, so I'm currently canvassing for opinions as to pros and
cons.
Space is a bit constrained and I'd like to fit as many ways as possible
(including an SPD).

Theo


The last CU I did was a Curve M18.

This had 20 ways, two of which was taken up by a 2 pole 100 A isolator
leaving room for up to 18 RCBO's.....

I still have some space for a SPD or AFDD if Curve do any...

OPnly slightly annoying thing baout Curve RCBOs is that they do not have
a functional earth flying lead.


Curve was Denmans rebadged stuff. Also known as Steeple.

It's Wylex AFAIK.


--
Adam

ARW wrote:
If you want to pay a Kings Ransom the Acti9 Isobar P.

Ouch:
https://www.cef.co.uk/catalogue/prod...ribution-board
I think I'll pass on that...

However my choice of CU is Hager and has been for many years.

Thanks, that's what I've heard from others. I was a bit surprised to see
Hager RCBOs some up second on sort by price at CEF, only a few pennies more
expensive that the usual British General. Actually looks reasonable value
for an RCBO board.

Theo

On 29/03/2021 21:24, Robin wrote:
On 29/03/2021 20:09, ARW wrote:
snip

Finally - I always make a note if the smoke alarms are past their
replace by date. There is no reg that says I can class that but it's
always good for good landlords to know that they need replacing.


Meanwhile there are landlords around here getting Code 2 on an EICR for
that from CPS members.Â* Not to mention mind-boggling quotes for fitting
a like-for-like replacement.


Aico slide on slide off with a small screwdriver.

--
Adam

On 29/03/2021 21:49, Theo wrote:
ARW wrote:
If you want to pay a Kings Ransom the Acti9 Isobar P.

Ouch:
https://www.cef.co.uk/catalogue/prod...ribution-board
I think I'll pass on that...

However my choice of CU is Hager and has been for many years.

Thanks, that's what I've heard from others. I was a bit surprised to see
Hager RCBOs some up second on sort by price at CEF, only a few pennies more
expensive that the usual British General. Actually looks reasonable value
for an RCBO board.


Andy Burns did a CU price comparison a few months ago when someone asked
a similar question.

A lot of YouTube posters are showing their CU replacements and using
FuseBox CUs (trademark) in return for a free T shirt.

Andy showed that for just a few extra pounds you got the right kit.


--
Adam

On 29/03/2021 21:24, Robin wrote:
On 29/03/2021 20:09, ARW wrote:
snip

Finally - I always make a note if the smoke alarms are past their
replace by date. There is no reg that says I can class that but it's
always good for good landlords to know that they need replacing.


Funnily enough, I actually replaced *all* of the interlinked smoke
detectors in the rental house only last year just before lockdown as
they had all expired on their 10 year dated stickers....


Screwfix still had teh same make and model of detectors in stock so a
straight easy swap via the connector plugs...

Only trouble is now the battery in both the alarm panel and the external
bell box now need replacing as it now alarms when there is a restoration
of power after a power cut.

A new battery and bell box are winging its way to me.....

Meanwhile there are landlords around here getting Code 2 on an EICR for
that from CPS members.Â* Not to mention mind-boggling quotes for fitting
a like-for-like replacement.

That is my biggest fear of tradespeople..... work/job "inflation" or
"creation"

I'm more than capable and confident in replacing a consumer unit myself
but the difficulty is that (a) I'm not Elecsa/Napit/Niceic registered so
I would have to notify building control. They will then sent someone out
to inspect my work..... and the council will charge me a fee....

So which is more cost effecitve or less hassle?

1. Get a sparky to do it all and they self-certify

or

2. Do it Myself and pay whatever fee the council want to charge me to
inspect my work?

While on the topic, I have been wondering about the merits of putting
the garage on a 11th RCBO via new SWA

and

Making provision for a car charging point should a future tenant want to
bring their electric car? This would mean a 12th RCBO and SWA brought
out to the driveway with a suitable terminating box so that this would
be teh location of the new car charger.

(This is about making the rental house more desirable/marketable and
taking the opportunity to update while changing the CU.)

On 29 Mar 2021 at 13:41:31 BST, "Robin" wrote:

On 29/03/2021 12:45, Roger Hayter wrote:
On 29 Mar 2021 at 10:15:39 BST, ""Brian Gaff \" Sofa\)"
wrote:

Which reminded me, why is it that a breaker of any type often seems, maybe
through never having been tripped for years can take too long to trip when
it finally does have a fault to protect against which can often mean a whole
fitting needs to be replaced due to overheating. Is it just build up of crud
or whatever, and should one say every few months manually trip these one at
a time to make sure they keep healthy?

Brian

It is normally printed on the front of them that they should be tested
periodically. But you are not alone in not seeing that!


I think Brian might be referring to how MCBs (and RCBOs) perform with
over current rather than how RCDs (and RCBOs) perform with an imbalance.
Testing how breakers perform with stable, over & short-circuit
currents requires special kit. I'd be interested to know if even Adam
carries it routinely.

Oh I see - as you say, I'm not sure anyone tests them. And I think his point
is an invalid one, because MCBs don't protect against overheating in most
cases even if working correctly.

--
Roger Hayter

On 29/03/2021 22:43, SH wrote:
On 29/03/2021 21:24, Robin wrote:
On 29/03/2021 20:09, ARW wrote:
snip

Finally - I always make a note if the smoke alarms are past their
replace by date. There is no reg that says I can class that but it's
always good for good landlords to know that they need replacing.


Funnily enough, I actually replaced *all* of the interlinked smoke
detectors in the rental house only last year just before lockdown as
they had all expired on their 10 year dated stickers....


Screwfix still had teh same make and model of detectors in stock so a
straight easy swap via the connector plugs...

Only trouble is now the battery in both the alarm panel and the external
bell box now need replacing as it now alarms when there is a restoration
of power after a power cut.

A new battery and bell box are winging its way to me.....

Meanwhile there are landlords around here getting Code 2 on an EICR
for that from CPS members.Â* Not to mention mind-boggling quotes for
fitting a like-for-like replacement.

That is my biggest fear of tradespeople..... work/job "inflation" or
"creation"

I'm more than capable and confident in replacing a consumer unit myself
but the difficulty is that (a) I'm not Elecsa/Napit/Niceic registered so
I would have to notify building control. They will then sent someone out
to inspect my work..... and the council will charge me a fee....

So which is more cost effecitve or less hassle?

1. Get a sparky to do it all and they self-certify

or

2. Do it Myself and pay whatever fee the council want to charge me to
inspect my work?

While on the topic, I have been wondering about the merits of putting
the garage on a 11th RCBO via new SWA

and

Making provision for a car charging point should a future tenant want to
bring their electric car? This would mean a 12th RCBO and SWA brought
out to the driveway with a suitable terminating box so that this would
be teh location of the new car charger.

(This is about making the rental house more desirable/marketable and
taking the opportunity to update while changing the CU.)

You forget option 3.
Fit it yourself and blame it on some sparky you can't remember the
name of. Possibly contacted through Facebook. Oh, and don't tell anyone.

On one point above, SWA doesn't need an RCD. I would prefer to place the
RCD in the garage for reasons of access.

YMMV of course.

SH wrote:
That is my biggest fear of tradespeople..... work/job "inflation" or
"creation"

I'm more than capable and confident in replacing a consumer unit myself
but the difficulty is that (a) I'm not Elecsa/Napit/Niceic registered so
I would have to notify building control. They will then sent someone out
to inspect my work..... and the council will charge me a fee....

Do you have the gear to install correctly (torque screwdriver) and do tests
(RCD testing, impedance testing, not sure if insulation testing is needed if
you have a recent EICR)?

So which is more cost effecitve or less hassle?

1. Get a sparky to do it all and they self-certify

or

2. Do it Myself and pay whatever fee the council want to charge me to
inspect my work?

Probably #1, although it depends on your council. Around here #2 is about
£300, and of course the BCO is going to want to check everything before the
power is turned on - a bit of a problem if there are people living there at
the time, particularly if the BCO won't be precise about when they'll turn
up.

If the BCO is going to want to see you doing impedance testing, you might as
well pay someone to do it rather than paying the BCO to look over your
shoulder.

Also if there isn't an isolator you'll need to coordinate with the DNO to
pull their fuse (smart meters will phone home to the supplier if their power
is removed, and in theory only the DNO can do that. In practice a lot of
electricians get away with it. Are you aware of safe working procedures for
that?).

While on the topic, I have been wondering about the merits of putting
the garage on a 11th RCBO via new SWA

and

Making provision for a car charging point should a future tenant want to
bring their electric car? This would mean a 12th RCBO and SWA brought
out to the driveway with a suitable terminating box so that this would
be teh location of the new car charger.

Are you going to provide the car charger, or just enabling works for one?
Would you expect the tenant to pay for the charger?

(This is about making the rental house more desirable/marketable and
taking the opportunity to update while changing the CU.)

I suppose it depends on your target market. If it's a student HMO, perhaps
not. If it's a million-pound mansion, maybe.

Although there will come a time where not having EV charging is a
disadvantage, especially for rentals - I could imagine that showing up on
property search sites sooner or later.

Theo

On 30/03/2021 00:04, Fredxx wrote:


You forget option 3.
Â* Fit it yourself and blame it on some sparky you can't remember the
name of. Possibly contacted through Facebook. Oh, and don't tell anyone.


And in 5 years get a nice new EICR saying what a good job it was.


--
Adam

On 29/03/2021 13:41, Robin wrote:
On 29/03/2021 12:45, Roger Hayter wrote:
On 29 Mar 2021 at 10:15:39 BST, ""Brian Gaff \" Sofa\)"
wrote:

Which reminded me, why is it that a breaker of any type often seems,
maybe
through never having been tripped for years can take too long to trip
when
it finally does have a fault to protect against which can often mean
a whole
fitting needs to be replaced due to overheating. Is it just build up
of crud
or whatever, and should one say every few months manually trip these
one at
a time to make sure they keep healthy?

Brian

It is normally printed on the front of them that they should be tested
periodically.Â* But you are not alone in not seeing that!


I think Brian might be referring to how MCBs (and RCBOs) perform with
over current rather than how RCDs (and RCBOs) perform with an imbalance.
Testing how breakers perform with stable, over & short-circuit currents
requires special kit.Â* I'd be interested to know if even Adam carries it
routinely.


No.

--
Adam

On 29/03/2021 13:41, Robin wrote:
On 29/03/2021 12:45, Roger Hayter wrote:
On 29 Mar 2021 at 10:15:39 BST, ""Brian Gaff \" Sofa\)"
wrote:

Which reminded me, why is it that a breaker of any type often seems,
maybe
through never having been tripped for years can take too long to trip
when
it finally does have a fault to protect against which can often mean
a whole
fitting needs to be replaced due to overheating. Is it just build up
of crud
or whatever, and should one say every few months manually trip these
one at
a time to make sure they keep healthy?

Brian

It is normally printed on the front of them that they should be tested
periodically.Â* But you are not alone in not seeing that!


I think Brian might be referring to how MCBs (and RCBOs) perform with
over current rather than how RCDs (and RCBOs) perform with an imbalance.
Â*Testing how breakers perform with stable, over & short-circuit
currents requires special kit.Â* I'd be interested to know if even Adam
carries it routinely.

Testing is currently carried out with no load. I think the behaviour of
the MCB would be the arbiter of what happens in an over-current or fault
condition.

Perhaps in future, as we have a number of different RCD characteristics,
some cope with DC, others with HF currents etc, there is a chance that
testing will require tests performed under these conditions?

On 29/03/2021 14:15, Theo wrote:
SH wrote:
3. 6 circuits have no RCD protection C3

I presume this is because 18th edition says all circuits should have RCDs.
Therefore it's not to current regs, but was to regs at the time it was
installed. (Likewise plastic CUs)


Spot on as it will be cables buried in the wall less than 50mm from the
surface.


4. No RCD protection in bathroom C3

This one puzzles me a little as all there is in the bathoom is a ceiling
light, a wall unit light and an extractor fan on the upstairs lighting
circuit and is one of the 6 circuits mentioned in No 3.....

Similarly, but also a higher risk in bathrooms. I don't suppose any of
those things might be within reach?

Again it's an 18th edition reg that all circuits in the bathroom should
have RCD protection. That was not required on the 16th (but bonding was)

I happen to have some spare ways in the CU so I am actually tempted to
rip out all the MCBs and the RCD and put in 9 RCBOs.

Howeever, is it an issue if the RCBOs are NOT teh same make as the CU casing

MCBs, RCBOs, etc are certified to operate with a CU from the same
manufacturer. Doing it differently would be 'not in accordance with
manufacturer's instructions' which could get you another C3.

More practically, different manufacturers (or ranges) have different types
of busbars so the RCBOs may not fit the tangs on the busbar. An imperfect
fit could cause overheating and fire risk (as could improperly screwing down
the wires).

It would be C2 if they do not fit correctly.

And there should have been another C3 for the lights not having RCD
protection. Domestic lights now require RCD protection even if the cable
is in trunking.


--
Adam

On 29/03/2021 21:40, charles wrote:
In article , ARW
wrote:
On 29/03/2021 20:57, Theo wrote:
ARW wrote:
My advice would be that (as you are already prepared to pay for 9
RCBOs) then you might as well swap the CU for a metal one and leave
enough space in it for a SPD if it becomes a reg in a few years time.
Or even fit a SPD with this CU change. I believe that SPDs will be
mandatory in a few years time on all CUs.

OOI what brand(s) of CU do you prefer? We're likely going to need one
replaced soon, so I'm currently canvassing for opinions as to pros and
cons. Space is a bit constrained and I'd like to fit as many ways as
possible (including an SPD).


If you want to pay a Kings Ransom the Acti9 Isobar P.

However my choice of CU is Hager and has been for many years.

They make nice kit.

And unlike certain other manufactures their MCBs from old CUs fit the
new ones and vice versa.

--
Adam

On 29/03/2021 22:43, SH wrote:

While on the topic, I have been wondering about the merits of putting
the garage on a 11th RCBO via new SWA

and

Making provision for a car charging point should a future tenant want to
bring their electric car? This would mean a 12th RCBO and SWA brought
out to the driveway with a suitable terminating box so that this would
be teh location of the new car charger.

(This is about making the rental house more desirable/marketable and
taking the opportunity to update while changing the CU.)


Lots of options.

Take an SWA supply to the garage with an CU from a MCB not a RCBO and
having the RCD in the garage for the lights and sockets and leaving a
non RCD way spare way in the garage for a future car charging point.


SWA from house CU to charging point from MCB.

The charger (if you do get one) will almost certainly have the correct
RCD built into it and it in some case must not be fed from another
RCD/RCBO as it may stop that RCD/RCBO from working.

This is where you have an advantage with a garage on a TT supply. Some
car chargers need to be on a TT supply.

--
Adam